[General] What are the bad matchups?

  • #1
    as the title says, what decks would you say this deck struggles the most against? and why?
  • #2
    at game day i had some problems with a burning vengence deck of all things. 0 creature other than snapcasters made my removal dead cards game one. after that, once i started top decking, it was pretty much game over for me.

    I acquired some Phyrexian Obliterators to help with red based removal for next week. We will see how it goes.
  • #3
    Burning Vengance should never be a problem to you. Even if you lose first game, you should easily win other ones after sideboarding even with average hand. Of course if they porno-hand twice there is nothing you can do against most decks, but in average, you should kill him without even thinking.

    Worst matchups are:

    T1 popular decks:
    UW Humans
    Tempered Steel

    other decks:
    Heartless Summoning with Wurmcoil

    *Unburial Rites* decks might be a problem before sideboarding and I personally don't like playing against UB control, but people have mixed feelings about it, some say it's hard, other say it's easy.

    GR Ramp was rather easy but now they put many Huntmasters and this card is pain in the ass. It doesn't make WRR hardest matchup but it is definetely harder than before peeps learnt that Huntmaster is so good.
  • #4
    what makes the humans matchup difficult?

    Doomed Traveller devaluing the edicts? Mirran Crusader with pro black? whats up?
  • #5
    Quote from Sabre
    Burning Vengance should never be a problem to you. Even if you lose first game, you should easily win other ones after sideboarding even with average hand. Of course if they porno-hand twice there is nothing you can do against most decks, but in average, you should kill him without even thinking.

    Worst matchups are:

    T1 popular decks:
    UW Humans
    Tempered Steel

    other decks:
    Heartless Summoning with Wurmcoil

    *Unburial Rites* decks might be a problem before sideboarding and I personally don't like playing against UB control, but people have mixed feelings about it, some say it's hard, other say it's easy.

    GR Ramp was rather easy but now they put many Huntmasters and this card is pain in the ass. It doesn't make WRR hardest matchup but it is definetely harder than before peeps learnt that Huntmaster is so good.


    UW Humans are an easy matchup. I definitely agree with you about Heartless Summoning with Wurmcoil, though. Wurmcoil wrecks my UB zombies something fierce. The only game I've won so far against HS was won because I drew the nuts, and my opponent simply didn't draw what he needed.

    Unburial Rites I've only played against once, top4 matchup at gameday. And I got annihilated. I did manage to win one game, but as with Heartless it was dure more in part to literal luck of the draw than to skill or deck construction. Best we can hope for is to pull Surgical Extraction and get rid of the Rites. Because if not... well, good game.
    My Peasant Cube! (Currently 379 cards, but subject to change at any moment.)
  • #6
    Quote from metamorph
    what makes the humans matchup difficult?

    Doomed Traveller devaluing the edicts? Mirran Crusader with pro black? whats up?


    Both of those things definitely hurt. Some humans decks have started playing Elite Inquisitor as well which, while not as bad for you as Mirran Crusader, is still quite obnoxious if you don't draw removal. Really, the deck has few ways to deal with a Mirran Crusader (Verdict rarely ever works since they play so many creatures) so you're forced to race which is often a losing proposition if they have any number of anthems down. Many lists have resorted to either maindecking or boarding in Porcelain Legionnaires just to shore up this weakness, but even that's often not enough.
  • #7
    Doomed Traveller shuts down Geth's Verdict and - a bit - Gravecrawler
    Mirran Crusader is just awesome against us.
    Fiend Hunter, Celestial Purge and Oblivion Ring wrecks our Geralf's Messengers and other creatures.
    Their turn 2 drops are more relevant than ours.
    Moorland Haunt or Midnight Haunting might be painful too, especially with SoWaP maindecked.

    I feel this is worst matchup for me. I am more confident playing vs Heartless or Tempered Steel.
  • #8
    how do you feel about maindeck Distress as a soft out against problem cards that cost 3 or more mana? its definitely possible to grab Mirran Crusader, O Ring, Huntmaster, or any other obnoxious roadblocks with it. its not like this deck has many other good plays to make on turn 2 anyway, right?

    there's the issue of drawing it later against an opponent with an empty hand but i'm less worried about that honestly. very few decks are now emptying their hand completely even aggro like Humans is keeping Mana Leaks or removal in hand.
  • #9
    I play 4x Distress MD for exactly that reason. Gets rid of problem cards early and counters later.
  • #10
    I think this question depends on which build you're running. But generally speaking, all three versions (UB, RB, Mono Black) have difficulties with Mono Green Aggro, UW Humans, Tempered Steel, and to a lesser extent, Heartless Summoning.

    I say to a lesser extent, because the Heartless decks really don't have any ways of interacting with us, and just look to "Combo us out". We have a fast clock, and if we're keeping good hands, our clock is faster than theirs. So what if they drop a turn 4 Wurmcoil. Kill it and smash through. A little bit of lifegain from the opponent hasn't been a big deal for me. Hell, I've beaten an opponent who cast 3 Timely Reinforcements against me for full value!

    Against Humans, RB has the best matchup thanks to Arc Trail being able to 2 for 1 them early in the game. RB also has cheap efficient sweepers to deal with them. I honestly haven't had much trouble with UW Humans, as I try to keep super aggressive hands against them. If you keep some sort of bad 3 or 4 land hand, you will lose every time.

    Against Tempered Steel, UB has Steel Sabotage, and other counters for TS. RB has access to Manic Vandal, Shatter, and Ancient Grude if you're splashing a couple Woodland Cemeteries like me.

    Mono Green Aggro is incredibly difficult, because they have a team of insane blockers against us and they make most of our removal dead draws. Strangleroot Geist, Dungrove Elder, Thrun the Last Troll, and sometimes even Predator Ooze all cause fits for this deck. We need to have a good hand with lots of creatures, and if we don't draw Messengers, we will generally lose.

    Against Control decks, UB and RB have great options with counterspells and Manabarbs respectively, MonoBlack has weaker options, but still is no slouch.

    Ramp decks are one of our best matchups, even with Huntmaster, as they don't have many ways to interact, and we are resistant to their sweepers/removal. Plus, they simply can't mulligan very effectively, making them keep sketchy hands at times.
  • #11
    Just played a few matches against Mono-Red and kept losing 2-1. It's tough to race a Shrine, and post-board he had SoFaF. Maybe it's time to find some space in my SB for Steel Sabotage...
  • #12
    If you board in vapor snags, humans gets a little easier. That and sword of war and peace.
  • #13
    Considering how Zombie deck and Aggro Green decks are doing... expect a lot more SoFaF in the near future! Smile
    Current Standard deck:
    WGR Naya Lab-Aye v0.71 RGW
    WUG Return of Bant v3.11 GUW

    Casual decks:
    UB Ninja v2.1 BU
    GU Simic's Fathom v0.9 UG
    RGW Sarkhan's Seasoning v0.80 WGR
    WR Chandra's Rebirth v0.3 RW

  • #14
    the heartless reanimator and pod decks are the toughest matchups imo. i have a pretty bad winrate against my friends heartless deck pre-sideboard.
  • #15
    @raven: what do you SB in? and out?
    Current Standard deck:
    WGR Naya Lab-Aye v0.71 RGW
    WUG Return of Bant v3.11 GUW

    Casual decks:
    UB Ninja v2.1 BU
    GU Simic's Fathom v0.9 UG
    RGW Sarkhan's Seasoning v0.80 WGR
    WR Chandra's Rebirth v0.3 RW

  • #16
    Quote from Kandjar
    @raven: what do you SB in? and out?



    depends on what i see.
    the particular deck that i have issues with likes to heartless and ramp then drop 4 rune scarred demons in 2 turns.
    out: 4 pox 3 war and peace
    in: 2 black suns 2 f&f 3 surgical

    its really a race to see if you can kill before a wurmcoil or 3 runescarred demons hit the board. sever the bloodline would help quite a bit but i cut it from my side in favor of black suns to deal with humans. as of today i would probably replace 1 ratchet and 1 bsz with 2 severs
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