speaking of evanus' 2 for 1s one of the most hurtful cards for us is the arc trail, had lost 2 many games just cz it did 2 damage 2 my champ dn 1 2 my mayor clearing them both 2 soon
speaking of evanus' 2 for 1s one of the most hurtful cards for us is the arc trail, had lost 2 many games just cz it did 2 damage 2 my champ dn 1 2 my mayor clearing them both 2 soon
I agree 100% this is my biggest issue right now. Anyone have any good ideas for dealing with burn?
I agree 100% this is my biggest issue right now. Anyone have any good ideas for dealing with burn?
Off the top of my head, the only thing for it would be spot protection. Apostle's Blessing and Stave Off are your best bet to combat creature burn early.
In the situation with Arc Trail on Champ and Mayor, protect the mayor from the one damage and your Champ will survive the 2 damage because he's still a 3/3.
Other than that, the only other thing would be long term protection like Sword of War and Peace.
Off the top of my head, the only thing for it would be spot protection. Apostle's Blessing and Stave Off are your best bet to combat creature burn early.
You might as well add blue and use counterspells. Spot protection is reactive and not good for this deck.
What do you normally side Gideon in against? Do you find the Arbiters to be a big help vs WRR? I've been looking for answers to WRR and I'm thinking that could be the one card to slow them down enough to get in for the win. How has Ruthless Invasion worked out in your SB? Seems good enough to maybe try to fit in my MD. Thanks in advance for your answers!
Gideon goes in vs. anything he's relevant against. Arbiter is sick against WRR and you should run 4.
Ruthless Invasion has proven to be very useful. This deck without aid will often stall the turn prior to alpha strike. Cards like this prevent that.
Take into account that this was done with the cards I could find, do you think this will stand a chance come game day? (I'm also desperately trying yo get hold of a Hero of Bladehold, any other suggestions?)
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This is very similar to the list that I've been running, but I've been using Doomed Traveler instead of Elite Vanguard. What made you choose the vanguard? I've found the traveler offers a bit more versatility with the 1/1 flying token that you can slap a sword on for some reach.
This is very similar to the list that I've been running, but I've been using Doomed Traveler instead of Elite Vanguard. What made you choose the vanguard? I've found the traveler offers a bit more versatility with the 1/1 flying token that you can slap a sword on for some reach.
Only reason was to have a bigger threat. I think they are pretty interchangeable depending on your environment.
Only reason was to have a bigger threat. I think they are pretty interchangeable depending on your environment.
Ah, gotcha. Was just curious if there was some reason I wasn't seeing, heh. My deck has done pretty well in testing against some local players, just need to sort out sideboard stuff for the meta in my area.
Is the Gambit used in this deck by anyone else? I have found the it useful every time I've drawn it. Especially because I'll play it in the 5 round or so, and I already have some counters out on the board.
joe: ive been working on something like that (like an artifact G/W human) it has been doing fairly decent but its just not as aggro as i like it x_x although i like sharpened pitchfork in a human deck First strike and +1/+1 use it on your accorder paladin or your mayor or hamlet captain it works wonders
I've now seen multiple people include alpha strike cards, but I've found Overrun to be the best one.
A. Ruthless Invasion is fine but with WRR running Wurmcoil/sadbot it kinda seems like it would fall short. Vs Tempered Steel, Tezz Decks, and Inkmoth Nexus blocks it also. If Ancient Grudge is soo good in this format, then Ruthless seems poor.
B. Spare from evil is another ok card, but it just fails in a lot of vs Human situations. (Tokens, Haunted, and Snapcasters)
C. Overrun has one drawback comparatively which is that it costs GGG2 Which is 2 more+2life than Ruthless, and 3 more than Spare. I feel it's benefits well outweigh it's mana cost.
- Mirran Crusader 2/2 becomes a 5/5 trampling doublestrike....too many games won with that.
- Trample really beats in the token match up.
- The only real way to stop it is with Fog/Counter. The first is only played in StonehornDig/Venser, and counter match ups tend to be control where getting past blockers are usually not necessary.
Trample is good, just ask WRR/WRG.
I see people running Angelic Destiny which I've played a lot with and when you are not placing it on Stalker/Giest/Thrun and sometimes Mirran Crusader it's just asking for a 2-1. As mentioned earlier +2 for 1's are how this deck loses.
Sword's are fine and work well late game. The matchups that do tend to make it in the late game tend to be losses. Also with Ancient Grudge running around in every sideboard (some main) Swords are super inefficient vs those match ups. (Play for 3, Equip for 2, attack in resp Grudge, Block Kill.) The tempo you lose in that situation often will cost you the game.
My recommendation is if your going to play swords, board them out vs wolf run, mono red, and RG Wolfs. Outside of that they are good enough to warrant 2x slots vs UW/UB control. If you pull them G2 for non-artifact cards you could find some extra value in your opponents dead cards in hand.
Hero of Bladehold seems better than Garruk Relentless to me. I mean I think the 2/2s are ok, with mayor the 3/3s are a bit better but it just does not do enough for me. Hero of Bladehold is an all star. If your opponent taps out for a wrath, playing hero is solid.
Apostles Blessing - I know it's proactive, but this still seems playable.
- Reasoning-
A. Protection from artifacts can really help out vs Wurmcoil Engine.
B. Protection from red is really just that good vs Slagstorm.
C. Protection from black can often keep that one creature you need alive to win.
D. Need to get past white creatures vs the token match up with a Mirran to win?
- It's not the best card in the world but it seems good vs every Tier1 deck.
- Gideon's Lawkeeper is super good in a lot of match ups. Wurmcoil fought the law, and the law won. Lawkeeper nulls 3 of the titans (Grave,Sun,Prime) which happen to be the most playable. Lawkeeper stops opposing Hero's, Phoenix, and other problematic threats. . He's also pretty nice vs MBI/MBP whatever you call it simply because he shuts down equipped creatures. Not war and peace, but feast and famine. I honestly think he's the best 1 drop, but I am a bit favorite to him because he's won me too many games.
If your up against something he's not good against, you can board him out.
Edit: Contested War Zone is super horrible vs Tokens, Mono Red, and Hawkward (Tempered Steel). Gavony Township is much better. Slower, but better.
@Evanus - I really like the build you've got, I would prefer Hero over Garruk because it's a little more aggro orientated. Overrun over Ruthless Invasion. I also think running 3x Abolisher Main and 1x Side is the way to go unless your meta is more than 60% DrawGo Control. I haven't been on this page before, but I really like AoA seems Boss. I would at least be running 2x Ghost Quarter simply to steal Ptitan fetch Ghost Quarters. Wolf Run Ramp/Red and UB Control are the two top dogs right now followed by Tokens. It just happens Ghost Quarter tends to be good vs all three if UB is the Drownyard or Inkmoth UB. It also gets some nice use when up against UW Humans, and Infect.
^this guy knows his stuff. i was thinking Lawkeeper but people laughed at me when i ran it last week x_x i was trying to work a lawkeeper/Avacyn priest lock which seemed to be doing well with bonds of faith
That was a great post, Shrouded. It's especially useful for me because I'm just about to jump into brewing my own human deck. It's great to see it's in the developing section, and I hope the future is bright.
I like your faith in some of the "questionable" cards like Overrun, Apostle's Blessing, and Gideon's Lawkeeper. They serve their function well in this deck, which is what makes them playable.
I'm going to pick up some of the cards I need from the shop today and start brewing and testing ASAP.
I've been wondering, though, has anybody tinkered with a Bant version of the humans? I'm thinking of cards like Snapcaster Mage, Aether Adept, Phyrexian Metamorph, Venser, the Sojourner. This would also result in including Mentor of the Meek for a draw engine. The idea seems scrambled right now, so I'll probably stick with GW and see if I like how it plays.
I know DoJ in the sideboard seems crazy, and its not like I am pushing it as something everyone should take. For me, I needed something drastic against red aggro, I was getting smoked every time. At least I can blow the board away after they've comitted and have some chance of getting some creatures out and coming back. Its not the best plan, but its worked better then anything else I've tried so far, if not for that I would probably lose to red about 70% of the time.
Thanks. I have not tested as much as some people here, but I've tested enough to know a few things.
1. Gideon's Lawkeeper is essential in a lot of match ups. Tapping down emissary, sad bots, and wurmcoils is really good in the wolf run match up.
2. Apostle Blessing does a lot of wonderful things. Most important it makes your opponent have more spot/sweep removal which is the bane of this deck.
3. Overrun is a nightmare for non-counter aggro decks. One thing I would like to mention is that you don't need a hoard of creatures like most decks. It's still pretty good with 2-3. If you haven't played it, you need to try it.
4. If you cannot apply pressure quickly after a board sweep you have lost the game. This led me to the conclusion that Garruk is no where near as good as Hero. Doomed Traveler is 80% better than Vanguard. Mirran Crusader is a 4 of.
5. 1 of's in your sideboard are a waste of time...card draw is bad for green/white....accept it...if you want your sideboard to matter in green without green sun zenith you should run 5 cards with 3 copies each. It's the only way to assure you will see it with any frequency.
I know DoJ in the sideboard seems crazy, and its not like I am pushing it as something everyone should take. For me, I needed something drastic against red aggro, I was getting smoked every time. At least I can blow the board away after they've comitted and have some chance of getting some creatures out and coming back. Its not the best plan, but its worked better then anything else I've tried so far, if not for that I would probably lose to red about 70% of the time.
Timely Reinforcements / Overrun...I beat red out of the side with ease.
We can't really run Wurmcoil / Batterskull so we need to rely on other ways to gain life...Timely is a 3x side...and it's a must. It's really good vs tokens, mono red, hawkward.
Red burn is tough to deal with which is part of the reason I run Apostles Blessing...They arc trail, you Bless....They attack you declare blocks, they burn block, you save block....you kill attacker, null all damage to blocker.
Shrine is really tough to deal with as are a lot of other artifacts and enchantments which makes 3x Naturlize a must....It deals with Shrine/Oring/Inkmoth/BirthingPod/AngelicDestiny...do I really need to continue.
Save your oblivion rings for koth unless it's a must to use them. If Shrine is building up, and they tap out...you can't really waste the opportunity...so just oring them.
Take out your beast within for oblivion ring....You don't want to give them a 3/3...which can make profitable blocks...we already have access to Oring which allows us to deal with problematic permanents outside of lands.
Fiend Hunter is not good...Stop Playing it...Creatures are easily dealt with...That card is great in limited but in standard you asking for a board sweep, and then guess who has a creature in play....bad cards are bad.
Overall the deck looks fine..I would like to see overrun...as I can't say enough about that card in this deck...I can race mono red with it.
Thanks for the great advice! I completely agree that Timely is a 3x, shame on me for not having that in my sideboard.
I think I agree with taking out the Beast Within's for O-rings also. I liked having an instant to fall back on that can also take out a Kessig Wolf Run/Ink Moth in an emergency, but the goal is to hopefully not let it get that far.
The only things I disagree with you on are Fiend Hunter and Overrun. As good as Overrun could be, I just can't justify it in this deck with GGG. That could be a dead card in my hand the entire game with a deck that wants to be as fast as possible. In regards to Fiend Hunter, I could probably switch it to the SB but it just has such great synergy with DoJ. Whether I am getting ready to use my own DoJ or preparing for theirs, I Fiend Hunter my own Champion/Mayor/Hero, whatever I have out and at least I have something on the board after the wipe. If I am against wolf run it lets me get annoying sadrobot/emissary's out of the way early on while pumping my champion and giving me another person to attack with if the board is clear. The extra 3-6 damage he can put out in two or three turns of attacking can make or break a game. I still think he's a solid card.
He is better if your running DOJ...makes for a very confused opponent..which is probably worth it's weight in gold. Seems like it would be a bit too slow, and counter productive...but part of playing is putting your own touch on things, and I can respect that.
I have never had issues with Overrun I only run it as a 2x. I can see how it would scare some people. It was orginally a way to sure up the TokenTown match as that has been the toughest for me to deal with...between Elspeth gaining life, shrine pumping out 6 tokens, and Intangible Virtue giving them Vigalance...I've had a tough time...but Overrun has helped a lot I have been seriously thinking about going to 3x...at least 3 of the last 5 games I lost I would have won if I had it in hand..which is a sign...
Fiend hunter is very scary for me....though I do like the idea of an opponent wasting removal on him to get something back which inherently gives them less removal to deal with Hero. I don't like the idea of playing him vs tokens removing hero, and they use Day of Judgement. The fact that he could straight up lose games for me seems bad.
Spellskite is also super good vs red....they have to use 2 spells to get him, and if you decide to use Apostles Blessing it can get quite funny, and produce a nice 2 for 1. Not to mention make them come up with another 2 cards for the next 2 for 1 on him. While they have been trying to kill him you have been bashing with your Flipped Mayor and his Beasts...
Also worth mentioning that Spellskite absorbs Shrine.
I agree 100% this is my biggest issue right now. Anyone have any good ideas for dealing with burn?
Off the top of my head, the only thing for it would be spot protection. Apostle's Blessing and Stave Off are your best bet to combat creature burn early.
In the situation with Arc Trail on Champ and Mayor, protect the mayor from the one damage and your Champ will survive the 2 damage because he's still a 3/3.
Other than that, the only other thing would be long term protection like Sword of War and Peace.
witchbane orb personally. i like it alotz
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You might as well add blue and use counterspells. Spot protection is reactive and not good for this deck.
Gideon goes in vs. anything he's relevant against. Arbiter is sick against WRR and you should run 4.
Ruthless Invasion has proven to be very useful. This deck without aid will often stall the turn prior to alpha strike. Cards like this prevent that.
Sideboard
Take into account that this was done with the cards I could find, do you think this will stand a chance come game day? (I'm also desperately trying yo get hold of a Hero of Bladehold, any other suggestions?)
Standard
GRWsilly humaansGW
7-3-0
Commander
REdjhoira of the ghittuBlUE
If anyone is Interested in Joining a Facebook group for Magic: the gathering PM me
This is very similar to the list that I've been running, but I've been using Doomed Traveler instead of Elite Vanguard. What made you choose the vanguard? I've found the traveler offers a bit more versatility with the 1/1 flying token that you can slap a sword on for some reach.
UW Umans WU (Competitive Record: 10-2-1)
GW Gavony Villagers WG (Competitive Record: 26-6-2)
Casual Decks
BR Vampires RB
Only reason was to have a bigger threat. I think they are pretty interchangeable depending on your environment.
Standard
GRWsilly humaansGW
7-3-0
Commander
REdjhoira of the ghittuBlUE
If anyone is Interested in Joining a Facebook group for Magic: the gathering PM me
Ah, gotcha. Was just curious if there was some reason I wasn't seeing, heh. My deck has done pretty well in testing against some local players, just need to sort out sideboard stuff for the meta in my area.
UW Umans WU (Competitive Record: 10-2-1)
GW Gavony Villagers WG (Competitive Record: 26-6-2)
Casual Decks
BR Vampires RB
Is the Gambit used in this deck by anyone else? I have found the it useful every time I've drawn it. Especially because I'll play it in the 5 round or so, and I already have some counters out on the board.
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Contested War Zone has a bit more utility early on, but Gavony Township wins games.
UW Umans WU (Competitive Record: 10-2-1)
GW Gavony Villagers WG (Competitive Record: 26-6-2)
Casual Decks
BR Vampires RB
I've now seen multiple people include alpha strike cards, but I've found Overrun to be the best one.
A. Ruthless Invasion is fine but with WRR running Wurmcoil/sadbot it kinda seems like it would fall short. Vs Tempered Steel, Tezz Decks, and Inkmoth Nexus blocks it also. If Ancient Grudge is soo good in this format, then Ruthless seems poor.
B. Spare from evil is another ok card, but it just fails in a lot of vs Human situations. (Tokens, Haunted, and Snapcasters)
C. Overrun has one drawback comparatively which is that it costs GGG2 Which is 2 more+2life than Ruthless, and 3 more than Spare. I feel it's benefits well outweigh it's mana cost.
- Mirran Crusader 2/2 becomes a 5/5 trampling doublestrike....too many games won with that.
- Trample really beats in the token match up.
- The only real way to stop it is with Fog/Counter. The first is only played in StonehornDig/Venser, and counter match ups tend to be control where getting past blockers are usually not necessary.
Trample is good, just ask WRR/WRG.
I see people running Angelic Destiny which I've played a lot with and when you are not placing it on Stalker/Giest/Thrun and sometimes Mirran Crusader it's just asking for a 2-1. As mentioned earlier +2 for 1's are how this deck loses.
Sword's are fine and work well late game. The matchups that do tend to make it in the late game tend to be losses. Also with Ancient Grudge running around in every sideboard (some main) Swords are super inefficient vs those match ups. (Play for 3, Equip for 2, attack in resp Grudge, Block Kill.) The tempo you lose in that situation often will cost you the game.
My recommendation is if your going to play swords, board them out vs wolf run, mono red, and RG Wolfs. Outside of that they are good enough to warrant 2x slots vs UW/UB control. If you pull them G2 for non-artifact cards you could find some extra value in your opponents dead cards in hand.
Hero of Bladehold seems better than Garruk Relentless to me. I mean I think the 2/2s are ok, with mayor the 3/3s are a bit better but it just does not do enough for me. Hero of Bladehold is an all star. If your opponent taps out for a wrath, playing hero is solid.
Apostles Blessing - I know it's proactive, but this still seems playable.
- Reasoning-
A. Protection from artifacts can really help out vs Wurmcoil Engine.
B. Protection from red is really just that good vs Slagstorm.
C. Protection from black can often keep that one creature you need alive to win.
D. Need to get past white creatures vs the token match up with a Mirran to win?
- It's not the best card in the world but it seems good vs every Tier1 deck.
- Gideon's Lawkeeper is super good in a lot of match ups. Wurmcoil fought the law, and the law won. Lawkeeper nulls 3 of the titans (Grave,Sun,Prime) which happen to be the most playable. Lawkeeper stops opposing Hero's, Phoenix, and other problematic threats. . He's also pretty nice vs MBI/MBP whatever you call it simply because he shuts down equipped creatures. Not war and peace, but feast and famine. I honestly think he's the best 1 drop, but I am a bit favorite to him because he's won me too many games.
If your up against something he's not good against, you can board him out.
Edit: Contested War Zone is super horrible vs Tokens, Mono Red, and Hawkward (Tempered Steel). Gavony Township is much better. Slower, but better.
@Evanus - I really like the build you've got, I would prefer Hero over Garruk because it's a little more aggro orientated. Overrun over Ruthless Invasion. I also think running 3x Abolisher Main and 1x Side is the way to go unless your meta is more than 60% DrawGo Control. I haven't been on this page before, but I really like AoA seems Boss. I would at least be running 2x Ghost Quarter simply to steal Ptitan fetch Ghost Quarters. Wolf Run Ramp/Red and UB Control are the two top dogs right now followed by Tokens. It just happens Ghost Quarter tends to be good vs all three if UB is the Drownyard or Inkmoth UB. It also gets some nice use when up against UW Humans, and Infect.
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I like your faith in some of the "questionable" cards like Overrun, Apostle's Blessing, and Gideon's Lawkeeper. They serve their function well in this deck, which is what makes them playable.
I'm going to pick up some of the cards I need from the shop today and start brewing and testing ASAP.
I've been wondering, though, has anybody tinkered with a Bant version of the humans? I'm thinking of cards like Snapcaster Mage, Aether Adept, Phyrexian Metamorph, Venser, the Sojourner. This would also result in including Mentor of the Meek for a draw engine. The idea seems scrambled right now, so I'll probably stick with GW and see if I like how it plays.
1 Gideon's Lawkeeper
1 Angelic Overseer
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Fiend Hunter
3 Hamlet Captain
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Avacyns Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Doomed Traveler
1 Sword of War and Peace
Land 22
5 Forest
7 Plains
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Gavony Township
Spells 5
2 Beast Within
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Lead the Stampede
2 Grand Abolisher
4 Naturalize
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
3 Day of Judgment
2 Act of Aggression
1 Gideon's Lawkeeper
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
I know DoJ in the sideboard seems crazy, and its not like I am pushing it as something everyone should take. For me, I needed something drastic against red aggro, I was getting smoked every time. At least I can blow the board away after they've comitted and have some chance of getting some creatures out and coming back. Its not the best plan, but its worked better then anything else I've tried so far, if not for that I would probably lose to red about 70% of the time.
1. Gideon's Lawkeeper is essential in a lot of match ups. Tapping down emissary, sad bots, and wurmcoils is really good in the wolf run match up.
2. Apostle Blessing does a lot of wonderful things. Most important it makes your opponent have more spot/sweep removal which is the bane of this deck.
3. Overrun is a nightmare for non-counter aggro decks. One thing I would like to mention is that you don't need a hoard of creatures like most decks. It's still pretty good with 2-3. If you haven't played it, you need to try it.
4. If you cannot apply pressure quickly after a board sweep you have lost the game. This led me to the conclusion that Garruk is no where near as good as Hero. Doomed Traveler is 80% better than Vanguard. Mirran Crusader is a 4 of.
5. 1 of's in your sideboard are a waste of time...card draw is bad for green/white....accept it...if you want your sideboard to matter in green without green sun zenith you should run 5 cards with 3 copies each. It's the only way to assure you will see it with any frequency.
Timely Reinforcements / Overrun...I beat red out of the side with ease.
We can't really run Wurmcoil / Batterskull so we need to rely on other ways to gain life...Timely is a 3x side...and it's a must. It's really good vs tokens, mono red, hawkward.
Red burn is tough to deal with which is part of the reason I run Apostles Blessing...They arc trail, you Bless....They attack you declare blocks, they burn block, you save block....you kill attacker, null all damage to blocker.
Shrine is really tough to deal with as are a lot of other artifacts and enchantments which makes 3x Naturlize a must....It deals with Shrine/Oring/Inkmoth/BirthingPod/AngelicDestiny...do I really need to continue.
Save your oblivion rings for koth unless it's a must to use them. If Shrine is building up, and they tap out...you can't really waste the opportunity...so just oring them.
Take out your beast within for oblivion ring....You don't want to give them a 3/3...which can make profitable blocks...we already have access to Oring which allows us to deal with problematic permanents outside of lands.
Fiend Hunter is not good...Stop Playing it...Creatures are easily dealt with...That card is great in limited but in standard you asking for a board sweep, and then guess who has a creature in play....bad cards are bad.
Overall the deck looks fine..I would like to see overrun...as I can't say enough about that card in this deck...I can race mono red with it.
I think I agree with taking out the Beast Within's for O-rings also. I liked having an instant to fall back on that can also take out a Kessig Wolf Run/Ink Moth in an emergency, but the goal is to hopefully not let it get that far.
The only things I disagree with you on are Fiend Hunter and Overrun. As good as Overrun could be, I just can't justify it in this deck with GGG. That could be a dead card in my hand the entire game with a deck that wants to be as fast as possible. In regards to Fiend Hunter, I could probably switch it to the SB but it just has such great synergy with DoJ. Whether I am getting ready to use my own DoJ or preparing for theirs, I Fiend Hunter my own Champion/Mayor/Hero, whatever I have out and at least I have something on the board after the wipe. If I am against wolf run it lets me get annoying sadrobot/emissary's out of the way early on while pumping my champion and giving me another person to attack with if the board is clear. The extra 3-6 damage he can put out in two or three turns of attacking can make or break a game. I still think he's a solid card.
I have never had issues with Overrun I only run it as a 2x. I can see how it would scare some people. It was orginally a way to sure up the TokenTown match as that has been the toughest for me to deal with...between Elspeth gaining life, shrine pumping out 6 tokens, and Intangible Virtue giving them Vigalance...I've had a tough time...but Overrun has helped a lot I have been seriously thinking about going to 3x...at least 3 of the last 5 games I lost I would have won if I had it in hand..which is a sign...
Fiend hunter is very scary for me....though I do like the idea of an opponent wasting removal on him to get something back which inherently gives them less removal to deal with Hero. I don't like the idea of playing him vs tokens removing hero, and they use Day of Judgement. The fact that he could straight up lose games for me seems bad.
Spellskite is also super good vs red....they have to use 2 spells to get him, and if you decide to use Apostles Blessing it can get quite funny, and produce a nice 2 for 1. Not to mention make them come up with another 2 cards for the next 2 for 1 on him. While they have been trying to kill him you have been bashing with your Flipped Mayor and his Beasts...
Also worth mentioning that Spellskite absorbs Shrine.