When my friends and I discussed putting Desperate Ravings in Solar Flare we called it Red Dawn. The mana seemed terrible and we didn't go far with it. Now that there are 4cc lists cropping up thanks to Micheal Jacobs and others I have started to think about the possibility of playing Red in Solar Flare again.
Has anyone here had success with the 4 color control variant running around? I really like Gut Shot and Ravings but I just don't know if this is worth my time.
The Solar Flare thread may be the wrong thread to have a discussion about "Red Dawn" but if you've both decks you would know how similarly the two play.
I actually don't like Faithless looting, personally... While the discard is not random (which is an upside over Desparate Ravings), and it's 1CMC, you're losing a card when you do it. I'd rather keep my CA while I dig (like you do with Think Twice, Alchemy, Ravings, etc.).
Red splash could work, or even Grixis, though currently I prefer Esper.
Spoiler talk is not allowed at this time. Any more talk about it and i will hand out infractions.
While I'm not questioning that this rule exists and I apologize for not knowing, I didn't see anything in the rules thread (which I did indeed read when I signed up) saying not to discuss spoilers from future sets. Did I miss something there, or is this rule listed somewhere else?
While I'm not questioning that this rule exists and I apologize for not knowing, I didn't see anything in the rules thread (which I did indeed read when I signed up) saying not to discuss spoilers from future sets. Did I miss something there, or is this rule listed somewhere else?
You read the "general forum rules" these are the rules exclusive to the Standard forums. Since the card you are referencing is not T2 yet they don't like it being discussed here. Basically this forum is for cards that are T2 today not T2 months from now.
You read the "general forum rules" these are the rules exclusive to the Standard forums. Since the card you are referencing is not T2 yet they don't like it being discussed here. Basically this forum is for cards that are T2 today not T2 months from now.
Fair enough, thanks. I do think that severely limits discussion that could be had in this thread though, since Scars Block and ISD don't have enough that would make me want to splash red yet.
My other question: Someone mentioned RUW, would that even be Solar Flare with no grave revival via Unburial Rites? I thought that was part of what made the deck Solar Flare. o.o
I don't think so, we are already trying to do so much. Adding in more would just screw us over.
This is the most true post on this thread that I have read in this thread. Like he said Solar Flare already has enough going on and to splash Red for one or two cards isn't worth it IMO. A lot people including myself have a hard enough time trying to squeeze in which cards we want into the deck. So in conclusion I think that this would just be WAY more of a hassle then of a reward but that's just my .02
(AND it is very possibly that I could be wrong :p)
Erm, Helix has shown that he knows what he's talking about, and he's just doing his job as a mod. I don't know what the point of this comment is. If the rules of the forum are no spoiler cards, then whatever. Just limits the available discussion on the topic of splashing red, so I won't bother discussing it until DKA is out.
I think your on to something... Red seems to be very strong right now- With Inferno Titan being devestating against illusions, it's draw argueably better than think twice, and gives access to threat spells as well as bolt spells- We may see a 4cc variant. Its VERY unlikely however that it'll go into URW or URB.... this is because the core of the deck we need is UBW... we may be able to strech the mana more but, it'll take a long time to get it correct and it'll be an aganozing process. Shame theres no longer fetches... closest we have is ghostquarting ourselves which- in a control deck isn't great.
I'm trying out a varient with red in it for
2 gut shot
4 ravings
1 oliva (house right now).
so far works well
just switched mana base around and not reliying on red so much makes it work.
4 sulfer falls and 2 black cliffs only red sorces. its still mainly esper with just a splash
I really like the idea of having a 4th color and maybe having a 5th in the board so you can cast ancient grudge. The hardest part though will be figuring out the manabase. You can reference jerry T's lists that he has been using at scg events. As for the discussion of desperate ravings I think twice. I think they are both really good but i am really unsure which is better. I mean yes desperate ravings lets you dig a lot deeper but i do not like the idea of the "randomly discard a card". I could be completely wrong though.
As for the comments about me i will look the other way about it now. If it continues i will hand out infractions or more.
I mean yes desperate ravings lets you dig a lot deeper but i do not like the idea of the "randomly discard a card". I could be completely wrong though.
In general, I also am not drinking the Desperate Ravings Kool-Aid. I hate the idea of discarding a card at random. However, I think it's fine if you build your deck around utilizing the graveyard the way Flare does.
Almost every non-land card in the deck either a) has flashback, b) can get flashback with Snapcaster, or c) can be brought back into play with Unburial Rites. If you run Sun Titan (which Gerry does), then you can also bring back Oblivion Ring and Pristine Talisman (if you run it). So, it really doesn't matter what you discard, since nothing in the GY is really off limits.
The biggest issue I forsee is warping the manabase even further to accomodate the splash. I'll probably test on MWS over the next couple weeks to see if I can get it to work the way I want.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I also run 2 Pristine Talisman. The mana is fine and I had no problems with it. The only problems I have are U/W Humans and U/W Haunted Humans...atm anyway. I can see infect being a problem too.
I've had ideas for this for a long time now, even before Garry's list was released, and it is very possible. I'm just waiting for Dark Ascension beforehand.
What you have to realize is the mana base isn't U/B/W/R/G it's more like U/W/b/r/tiny g. Take a look at garry's list, there aren't a bunch of double color cards like dissipate, liliana, day of judgement, the mana base isn't that finicky. It also revolves around sun titan and recursion to "cheat" spells in.
i see ALOT of potential for this deck to be a heavily reliant graveyard deck, which can make it a very explosive, and powerful deck (vulnerable to graveyard hate but that can be dealt with when we get there). Being able to run ravings, alchemy, and whatever is released in our next set will give this deck a lot of power
I also run 2 Pristine Talisman. The mana is fine and I had no problems with it. The only problems I have are U/W Humans and U/W Haunted Humans...atm anyway. I can see infect being a problem too.
I don't think we can drop B and go RUW. Unburial Rites is not our only black spell. We get quite a bit of value out of Doom Blade and Grave Titan.
I see many lists that run only 3x Forbidden Alchemy and/or 3x Think Twice. I'm not clear why we'd run Desperate Ravings when many here are not maxxed out on the dig tools we already have. I can envision many games where you dig for answers, but all you draw is more dig spells.
If I were going to splash yet another color, it would be for something we don't already have. I am occasionally tempted by green for ramp, mana fixing, and low-costed creatures, but there's nothing good enough at this point.
I don't think we can drop B and go RUW. Unburial Rites is not our only black spell. We get quite a bit of value out of Doom Blade and Grave Titan.
I see many lists that run only 3x Forbidden Alchemy and/or 3x Think Twice. I'm not clear why we'd run Desperate Ravings when many here are not maxxed out on the dig tools we already have. I can envision many games where you dig for answers, but all you draw is more dig spells.
If I were going to splash yet another color, it would be for something we don't already have. I am occasionally tempted by green for ramp, mana fixing, and low-costed creatures, but there's nothing good enough at this point.
I run 3 Forbidden because when I'm digging for 4 cards I'm looking for an answer. With Ravings I'm looking to dump a card in the yard and dig. If you go G for ramp that would be a different deck (Rock or Junk, and if you do use Mulch).
I don't see the point of adding Red into this deck. It makes no sense. Your'e eliminating the "best" color (black) for a worse color (red). Desperate Ravings isn' what it's cracked up to be. It is (at worst) Think Twice. Hardly worth splashing a whole new color and crippling your mana base for. You're cutting Doom Blade and Liliana for Galvanic Blast? Are you ****ing kidding me?
Ok then how do you get rid of Mirran Crusader? Or Phyrexian Crusader when you have Doom Blade gripped? Sure PC can't be hit by a red spell either, but this deck is built to fight most of the field.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Follow me at MTGPackFoils on Twitter & Facebook.
currently playing:
Standard UW Control UWB Control UB Control MODERN BRGJund X Affinity UWR Control
Ok then how do you get rid of Mirran Crusader? Or Phyrexian Crusader when you have Doom Blade gripped? Sure PC can't be hit by a red spell either, but this deck is built to fight most of the field.
both crusaders die to day. you can oring a mirran and gftt the phyrxian.
my deck run mostly like esper with a splash of red and has little problem against the feild. (oh yeah and oliva is a house by the way)
both crusaders die to day. you can oring a mirran and gftt the phyrxian.
my deck run mostly like esper with a splash of red and has little problem against the feild. (oh yeah and oliva is a house by the way)
Mirran Crusader and Phyrexian Crusader die to both Day and Liliana... Plus neither is a problem for Solar Flare...
Having burn + 4 DoJ gives you access to more ways to deal with Mirran Crusader (who swings for 20% of your life total unblocked and without help) than either of the above...imho.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Follow me at MTGPackFoils on Twitter & Facebook.
currently playing:
Standard UW Control UWB Control UB Control MODERN BRGJund X Affinity UWR Control
Has anyone here had success with the 4 color control variant running around? I really like Gut Shot and Ravings but I just don't know if this is worth my time.
The Solar Flare thread may be the wrong thread to have a discussion about "Red Dawn" but if you've both decks you would know how similarly the two play.
Well it is consistent enough to win modo dailies if you look at the "whats happening" page on magicthegathering.com -> magic online.
Red splash could work, or even Grixis, though currently I prefer Esper.
While I'm not questioning that this rule exists and I apologize for not knowing, I didn't see anything in the rules thread (which I did indeed read when I signed up) saying not to discuss spoilers from future sets. Did I miss something there, or is this rule listed somewhere else?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=186354
You read the "general forum rules" these are the rules exclusive to the Standard forums. Since the card you are referencing is not T2 yet they don't like it being discussed here. Basically this forum is for cards that are T2 today not T2 months from now.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
Fair enough, thanks. I do think that severely limits discussion that could be had in this thread though, since Scars Block and ISD don't have enough that would make me want to splash red yet.
My other question: Someone mentioned RUW, would that even be Solar Flare with no grave revival via Unburial Rites? I thought that was part of what made the deck Solar Flare. o.o
This is the most true post on this thread that I have read in this thread. Like he said Solar Flare already has enough going on and to splash Red for one or two cards isn't worth it IMO. A lot people including myself have a hard enough time trying to squeeze in which cards we want into the deck. So in conclusion I think that this would just be WAY more of a hassle then of a reward but that's just my .02
(AND it is very possibly that I could be wrong :p)
AND there he is............
MY TRADE THREAD
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10378545#post10378545
Erm, Helix has shown that he knows what he's talking about, and he's just doing his job as a mod. I don't know what the point of this comment is. If the rules of the forum are no spoiler cards, then whatever. Just limits the available discussion on the topic of splashing red, so I won't bother discussing it until DKA is out.
Decks:
2 gut shot
4 ravings
1 oliva (house right now).
so far works well
just switched mana base around and not reliying on red so much makes it work.
4 sulfer falls and 2 black cliffs only red sorces. its still mainly esper with just a splash
As for the comments about me i will look the other way about it now. If it continues i will hand out infractions or more.
In general, I also am not drinking the Desperate Ravings Kool-Aid. I hate the idea of discarding a card at random. However, I think it's fine if you build your deck around utilizing the graveyard the way Flare does.
Almost every non-land card in the deck either a) has flashback, b) can get flashback with Snapcaster, or c) can be brought back into play with Unburial Rites. If you run Sun Titan (which Gerry does), then you can also bring back Oblivion Ring and Pristine Talisman (if you run it). So, it really doesn't matter what you discard, since nothing in the GY is really off limits.
The biggest issue I forsee is warping the manabase even further to accomodate the splash. I'll probably test on MWS over the next couple weeks to see if I can get it to work the way I want.
Here is the mana base I run, which is identical to an article GT posted on SCG:
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Shimmering Grotto
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Ghost Quarter
I also run 2 Pristine Talisman. The mana is fine and I had no problems with it. The only problems I have are U/W Humans and U/W Haunted Humans...atm anyway. I can see infect being a problem too.
currently playing:
Standard
UW Control
UWB Control
UB Control
MODERN
BRGJund
X Affinity
UWR Control
LEGACY
Dredge
R Burn
UWx Miracles
EDH
BRW Kaalia
______
Quotes:
My Magic Card nicknames.
What you have to realize is the mana base isn't U/B/W/R/G it's more like U/W/b/r/tiny g. Take a look at garry's list, there aren't a bunch of double color cards like dissipate, liliana, day of judgement, the mana base isn't that finicky. It also revolves around sun titan and recursion to "cheat" spells in.
i see ALOT of potential for this deck to be a heavily reliant graveyard deck, which can make it a very explosive, and powerful deck (vulnerable to graveyard hate but that can be dealt with when we get there). Being able to run ravings, alchemy, and whatever is released in our next set will give this deck a lot of power
do you run any burn? are thse decks too fast?
I see many lists that run only 3x Forbidden Alchemy and/or 3x Think Twice. I'm not clear why we'd run Desperate Ravings when many here are not maxxed out on the dig tools we already have. I can envision many games where you dig for answers, but all you draw is more dig spells.
If I were going to splash yet another color, it would be for something we don't already have. I am occasionally tempted by green for ramp, mana fixing, and low-costed creatures, but there's nothing good enough at this point.
BR Sleeper Ascension - Casual
Yeah I run 3 Galvanic Blast however I may switch these out for 3 Arc Trail. It can be a huge blow out.
I run 3 Forbidden because when I'm digging for 4 cards I'm looking for an answer. With Ravings I'm looking to dump a card in the yard and dig. If you go G for ramp that would be a different deck (Rock or Junk, and if you do use Mulch).
My decklist from this past FNM:
2 Pristine Talisman
Creatures
3 Sun Titan
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Blade Splicer
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Enchantments
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Pacifism
Instants
4 Desperate Ravings
4 Mana Leak
3 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Galvanic Blast
1 Dissipate
2 Day of Judgment
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Unburial Rites
Basic Lands
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
Lands
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Shimmering Grotto
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Celestial Purge
2 Day of Judgment
1 Ludevic's Test Subject
1 Negate
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Mimic Vat
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Unburial Rites
currently playing:
Standard
UW Control
UWB Control
UB Control
MODERN
BRGJund
X Affinity
UWR Control
LEGACY
Dredge
R Burn
UWx Miracles
EDH
BRW Kaalia
______
Quotes:
My Magic Card nicknames.
Ok then how do you get rid of Mirran Crusader? Or Phyrexian Crusader when you have Doom Blade gripped? Sure PC can't be hit by a red spell either, but this deck is built to fight most of the field.
currently playing:
Standard
UW Control
UWB Control
UB Control
MODERN
BRGJund
X Affinity
UWR Control
LEGACY
Dredge
R Burn
UWx Miracles
EDH
BRW Kaalia
______
Quotes:
My Magic Card nicknames.
both crusaders die to day. you can oring a mirran and gftt the phyrxian.
my deck run mostly like esper with a splash of red and has little problem against the feild. (oh yeah and oliva is a house by the way)
Having burn + 4 DoJ gives you access to more ways to deal with Mirran Crusader (who swings for 20% of your life total unblocked and without help) than either of the above...imho.
currently playing:
Standard
UW Control
UWB Control
UB Control
MODERN
BRGJund
X Affinity
UWR Control
LEGACY
Dredge
R Burn
UWx Miracles
EDH
BRW Kaalia
______
Quotes:
My Magic Card nicknames.