RG Werewolves looks like a 'fun' deck that may not be the worst deck at FNM, but it's unlikely to ever reach Tier 1 status. A deck that focuses solely on aggro with no real way to get card advantage just can't compete with the serious decks. Sure, casting a cheap creature that transforms into something with better value is fun, but it can only transform if nobody plays a spell, so you're gonna have to skip casting anything for a turn to ensure that. Every deck in the format is going to be casting a spell every turn, which will put the pressure on you to ensure the wolves flip in the first place. Also, with flashback being a playable mechanic and Snapcaster being a card, it's way too easy for your opponent to get your nice werewolves to transform back into mediocre humans after they bounce your Immerwolf or just kill it with any removal spell in the format.
On the plus side, it might just make Grim Flowering a playable card for you...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 3 Judge
This FAQ answers many of the common questions asked in the MTGS Rulings forum. Take a look!
I'm the editor/content manager of the Magic Rules Tips Blog - Bookmark this site for daily tips about game and tournament rules.
"Abstract concepts of perfect judging run headlong into the realities of how people play the game." - Toby Elliott (papa_funk)
i keep forgetting green sun's zenith is legal in this card pool. it would make for the necessary tutor to get the everwolf sped into the field to keep all werewolfs in there flipped state.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Collaborative Pub: Ice Cold Thoughts Always On Tap Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
i keep forgetting green sun's zenith is legal in this card pool. it would make for the necessary tutor to get the everwolf sped into the field to keep all werewolfs in there flipped state.
The problem is Immerwolf only works when he's on the board. So even if you tutor him into play they can kill him, cast another spell and flip your guys.
If Immerwolf created an until end of turn effect, where your guys couldn't be transformed that would be pretty sweet.
run some spellskites to protect him and mayor might be in order then. he is a 2/2 that doesn't flip, so he is not threatened by ratchet bomb and gut shot.
there is also Autumn's Veil to protect him as well.
Collaborative Pub: Ice Cold Thoughts Always On Tap Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
In my deck what usually happens is that my werewolves get mega strong. By turn 5 i have a mayor, an full moon rise, instigator gang and adaptive autom and can swing (if i got he wolf tokens) for 31 damage trample which mostly results me winning. I've also won a bunch of times overing them when their still human (most people forget that their are werewolves even while human so full moon rise and adaptive automaton still works.) Though I couldn't win a hugh tournament my werewolf deck has gotten me in the top 3 in the last 10 FNM. Yes they have their limits but used right they can be deadly still human.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
it will be good when day ratchet bomb and black sun go away. but that won't be for a long while but they are still crazy and they will find you and they will ripe your arms off and eat you.
because thats what werewolves do. and they can compete. also immerwolf dosn't need them to flip to give them a +1/+1 advantage. there still were wolves. so they still get the mayors +1/+1 and the immerwolf's +1/+1.
so 2 lords one that cost 2 the other that cost 3. sldo include wolf run and turn one play's you got 8 turn 1 werewolf drops and 4 mayors that drop on trn 2 and immerwolf on turn 3. they don't have to flip by the way. also you have burn. and that other werewolf that cost 2 and makes 1 green mana. acually i have a werewolf deck that might just work. i just need the wolf lords and some burn.
also the mayor become a 33 with the immerwolf abillity. just pack some natulize and your good.
yeah... but it's definitely a good time to bring this discussion back up. I'll say this though... I don't think R/G werewolves will be viable right now. I wouldn't doubt that a R/G or R/G/W Humans coild be viable that included some werewolves though. I started a thread for one already because I think the deck has some potential... and it's been a little while since I've played a good aggro deck in standard.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing:UWBRG MAGIC: The Gathering UWBRG
The new question is do you go pure aggro with Young Wolf, Reckless Waif, and win with 3 drops like Instigator Gang and Kruin Outlaw, or go midrange with huntsmaster, etc
Originally Posted by Solaran_X
I carry a briefcase handcuffed to my wrist whenever I play Vintage. Inside that briefcase is a GPS and launch codes for a nuclear missile that is set to home in on that particular GPS. If someone steals my ****, everyone dies.
I think they missed a good chance to make werewolves teir 1 viable by giving 1 or 2 of the werewolves flash.
Briarpack Alpha alone could be enough tho.
Turn 1: young wolf or reckless waif
Turn 2: mayor
Turn 3: immerwolf
Turn 4: pass, flip mayor/waif - on their turn flash in Brairpack Alpha
You've now got significant board
best case you're representing
waif at 5/4
mayor at 4/4
immerwolf at 3/3
briarpack alpha at 5/5
possibly 1 wolf token at 4/4
dropping in instigator gang at this point would be awesome.
Or you could go the same turn 1-3, then turn four go Full moon's rise, Moomist, bash for tons. Now you have
Waif at 6/4 trample
mayor at 5/4 trample
Immerwolf at 3/3
And you have a 3/3 wolf at your end step to block, can regen from a doj or a ratchet bomb, etc.
Originally Posted by Solaran_X
I carry a briefcase handcuffed to my wrist whenever I play Vintage. Inside that briefcase is a GPS and launch codes for a nuclear missile that is set to home in on that particular GPS. If someone steals my ****, everyone dies.
I don't think it's possible with the current cardpool, including the additions from DKA. They lack the resilience to be midrange and they suffer too greatly from disruption to be aggro. I want them to work, but I'm just not seeing it.
I don't think there's going to be a tier 1 "werewolves" deck but I would not be surprised to see a tier 1 deck that has werewolves in it, either R/U or G/U.
Having to skip playing something on your turn to get the most out of your cards is just too big a drawback unless you have some instant action to play on your opponents turn and blue is obviously the best color for that.
I really wish they could have found another way to flip your wolves that wasn't such a deleterious drawback for the person playing them.
I don't know why people keep insisting on the only way flipping cards is by not playing something. The easiest and most reliable way to do that is play moonmist. You can even maximize copies of that with noxious revival or reclaim to replay your guys or recast moonmist. Then with immerwolf or the werewolf shaman you can either prevent them from flipping back or punish them for it.
And if you go RUG, you can snap mage your moonmist or you can just play draw go with your werewolves.
Originally Posted by Solaran_X
I carry a briefcase handcuffed to my wrist whenever I play Vintage. Inside that briefcase is a GPS and launch codes for a nuclear missile that is set to home in on that particular GPS. If someone steals my ****, everyone dies.
Or you could go the same turn 1-3, then turn four go Full moon's rise, Moomist, bash for tons. Now you have
Waif at 6/4 trample
mayor at 5/4 trample
Immerwolf at 3/3
And you have a 3/3 wolf at your end step to block, can regen from a doj or a ratchet bomb, etc.
Yeah was just throwing stuff out there. Nice part is that there's different routes to large turn 5 damage numbers. But it's turn 5 :\
Flashing wolves/werewolves woulda given the deck another way to mass transform more reliably. 4x moonmist is great but there will be games you don't see it.
I think a lot of people really want werewolves to be good, myself included, but its just not there. I think perhaps post rotation they will be brutal, but there just isn't enough support for them. I mean granted if you get the perfect opening hand there will be little that can be done to stop you but that's rare. I mean you can move fast with them but they don't have the staying power. I've found recovery from like a DOJ without a full moon's rise to sack is a game over.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The road to heaven is paved with good deeds, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Which do you have more of ?
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
On the plus side, it might just make Grim Flowering a playable card for you...
This FAQ answers many of the common questions asked in the MTGS Rulings forum. Take a look!
I'm the editor/content manager of the Magic Rules Tips Blog - Bookmark this site for daily tips about game and tournament rules.
"Abstract concepts of perfect judging run headlong into the realities of how people play the game." - Toby Elliott (papa_funk)
My Type 4 Stack -- DCI Documents -- Comp Rules
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
The problem is Immerwolf only works when he's on the board. So even if you tutor him into play they can kill him, cast another spell and flip your guys.
If Immerwolf created an until end of turn effect, where your guys couldn't be transformed that would be pretty sweet.
there is also Autumn's Veil to protect him as well.
between immerwolf and mayor of avabruck combined both make up the back bone of a werewolf deck.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
because thats what werewolves do. and they can compete. also immerwolf dosn't need them to flip to give them a +1/+1 advantage. there still were wolves. so they still get the mayors +1/+1 and the immerwolf's +1/+1.
so 2 lords one that cost 2 the other that cost 3. sldo include wolf run and turn one play's you got 8 turn 1 werewolf drops and 4 mayors that drop on trn 2 and immerwolf on turn 3. they don't have to flip by the way. also you have burn. and that other werewolf that cost 2 and makes 1 green mana. acually i have a werewolf deck that might just work. i just need the wolf lords and some burn.
also the mayor become a 33 with the immerwolf abillity. just pack some natulize and your good.
you mean like curse of exhaustion?
Unfortunately, nobody knew about that card back in November, 2011.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
The new question is do you go pure aggro with Young Wolf, Reckless Waif, and win with 3 drops like Instigator Gang and Kruin Outlaw, or go midrange with huntsmaster, etc
Thanks to Argetlam @ Hakai Studios!
Briarpack Alpha alone could be enough tho.
Turn 1: young wolf or reckless waif
Turn 2: mayor
Turn 3: immerwolf
Turn 4: pass, flip mayor/waif - on their turn flash in Brairpack Alpha
You've now got significant board
best case you're representing
waif at 5/4
mayor at 4/4
immerwolf at 3/3
briarpack alpha at 5/5
possibly 1 wolf token at 4/4
dropping in instigator gang at this point would be awesome.
Or you could go the same turn 1-3, then turn four go Full moon's rise, Moomist, bash for tons. Now you have
Waif at 6/4 trample
mayor at 5/4 trample
Immerwolf at 3/3
And you have a 3/3 wolf at your end step to block, can regen from a doj or a ratchet bomb, etc.
Thanks to Argetlam @ Hakai Studios!
Having to skip playing something on your turn to get the most out of your cards is just too big a drawback unless you have some instant action to play on your opponents turn and blue is obviously the best color for that.
I really wish they could have found another way to flip your wolves that wasn't such a deleterious drawback for the person playing them.
And if you go RUG, you can snap mage your moonmist or you can just play draw go with your werewolves.
Thanks to Argetlam @ Hakai Studios!
Yeah was just throwing stuff out there. Nice part is that there's different routes to large turn 5 damage numbers. But it's turn 5 :\
Flashing wolves/werewolves woulda given the deck another way to mass transform more reliably. 4x moonmist is great but there will be games you don't see it.