[Developing] RUg: Death of a Thousand Stings (Reworked)

  • #1
    So I tried my hand at my first MTGSalvation decklist a few days ago. The general theme of the deck is one of my favorites: build up incremental advantage on top of incremental advantage on top of incremental advantage until you can suffocate your opponent. So counters to slow down their bigger threats, 2-for-1s (via flashback or otherwise) to gain card advantage and keep the field clear, and strong instant-speed draws to keep you ahead of your opponent. Here's the original decklist (originally posted here):


    Death of a Thousand Needles (old)Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures: 2
    2 Snapcaster Mage

    Draw/Sift: 16
    4 Ponder
    3 Mulch
    3 Think Twice
    3 Desperate Ravings
    3 Tezzeret's Gambit

    Burn: 12
    4 Geistflame
    3 Devil's Play
    2 Volt Charge
    3 Shrine of Burning Rage

    Utility/Control: 10
    3 Dissipate
    2 Beast Within
    2 Burning Vengeance
    3 Chandra, the Firebrand

    Lands: 20
    5 Mountain
    4 Island
    2 Forest
    3 Rootbound Crag
    4 Sulfur Falls
    2 Hinterland Harbor



    It wasn't meant to be "powerhouse archetype XYZ," but more to be a deck type that I enjoy: one that builds up incremental advantage upon incremental advantage upon incremental advantage until it just suffocates its opponent with card and board advantage. Obviously it's very much focused on draw-go.

    I got a little advice on things like Buried Ruin and possibly Noxious Revival, but then I realized something. This deck hates Shrine of Burning Rage. I thought at first that with all the red flashbacks, it would synergize beautifully. But with this deck you want turn 2 to be card advantage. Then you want turn 3 to flash back your card advantage. Then you want turn four to be two more card advantage, etc. After that you're probably going to want Burning Vengeance, then Chandra, the Firebrand, using any mana you didn't need to counter their spells for your card advantage spells/flashbacks. The same goes for Mulch, which just doesn't really work out with its sorcery speed.

    Here's the list I'm at now:

    Death of a Thousand StingsMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures: 5
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Tree of Redemption
    1 Frost Titan

    Draw: 9
    3 Think Twice
    4 Desperate Ravings
    2 Tezzeret's Gambit

    Burn: 10
    2 Devil's Play
    3 Geistflame
    2 Arc Trail
    3 Brimstone Volley

    Control: 6
    3 Mana Leak
    3 Dissipate

    Utility: 10
    3 Caravan Vigil
    2 Ancient Grudge
    2 Burning Vengeance
    3 Chandra, the Firebrand

    Lands: 20
    3 Island
    4 Mountain
    3 Forest
    4 Copperline Gorge
    4 Sulfur Falls
    2 Hinterland Harbor



    You'll notice a distinct lack of Ponder despite having a reliable source of shuffling. Frankly, it just didn't feel right. Even if you can use Ponder alongside Caravan Vigil, you're denying yourself your straight-up card advantage spells unless you're really far into the game. Especially if you sideboard in the last Gambit and Think Twice, you can run through enough cards so quickly that Ponder isn't that big of a deal.

    My local meta is mostly control. I've seen an even split between UWC and UBC, one Tezzeret Esper Control, one Illusions aggro/control, and then the odd Stompy or Architect deck. I may have too little anti-aggro and too much anti-midrange in my maindeck, so some sideboard/maindeck swapping may occur. General game plan, sans Shrines, is like I said to counter the big threats, make favorable trades whenever it benefits me, and then use whatever I have available between Frostie, Chandra, Brimstone Volley, and Devil's Play as finishers.

    Those conditions are mostly based on what seems to work well against what I've faced so far (only been to three tournaments). A resolved Chandra can be tough for control to deal with, especially backed up with Leak or hiding from Gideon behind a Tree of Redemption. Her +1 is plucking off any utility creatures while activating Morbid, and her -2 starts doing terrible things since they have to trade counters 2-for-1 to stop you. Flashback on Devil's Play, perma-Pierce and lockdown on Frostie, and Reverberate on a stick all fit the bill when it comes to hosing control.

    Sideboarding is pretty intuitive. Against draw-go, pull out Arc Trail and put in the extra draw. Slagstorm and extra Arc Trail against aggro, Frostie if I need the beater and lockdown. The only two that need explanation are probably Beast Within and Turn to Frog. See below.


    Grim Lavamancer: An all-star in my current U/R Counterburn deck, but it seems like this deck won't be able to fuel it well without fetchlands and running 2-drops that exile themselves turn 3, Snapcaster Mage, and no real discard/milling other than Desperate Ravings. Plus, I think between Arc Trail, Slagstorm, Geistflame, and Chandra, the Firebrand, I'm getting enough favorable trades that I don't need the fragile and fickle Lavamancer in this deck.

    Geistflame: I said it in my original post and I'll say it again: this card, at least judging by games I've played, is pure value. Pest, Birds, other mana dorks, Lavamancer, the odd M12 cycle Mage, a 'walker who gets rolled down to 1, tokens of all sorts, Inkmoth Nexus, a tapped out Mindshrieker or Mirror-Mad Phantasm, Vault Skirge, that Blade Splicer that Venser keeps bouncing... Sure, you're not going to leave it in against every deck, but I've yet to see a game where 1 damage at instant speed followed by a second one damage whenever I had the mana available (which isn't unlikely with a control deck like this) wouldn't be a good damn deal. Plus, it's an incredibly cheap, instant-speed Morbid trigger, which serves as both extra damage on Brimstone Volley (saving Chandra from having to +1 to trigger it, giving you a kill and smashing for 10 damage at 2RR total) and a damn good package of turn 3 kill into turn 3 Caravan Vigil into untapped land in play hey look I can still Mana Leak during your turn, then kill another creature at the end of your next turn with the flashback.

    Mana Leak/Dissipate: Just drew numbers out of a hat, basically. Seemed like a 3/3 split would work well here with Mana Leak letting you tap down to 2 and still threaten to counter most spells alongside Dissipate for later in the game, while you're waiting to flashback, the exile clause, and the hard counter. But I have a hard time knowing which and how many counters to run in general, so this is certainly a subject I could stand to get some advice on.

    Burning Vengeance: Started at 3, went down to 2, went down to 1 and 1 in sideboard, then back to 2. Can't usually cast it safely before turn 5, but it's a good value spell on that turn with all the draw and burn flashback spells you likely have in you graveyard by that point. Not completely sold on the value, but would probably keep it in against control to force counters (since flashback spells are so powerful against counters anyways) and midrange for the extra board advantage. Probably board it out it against the stompy decks and aggro, but may be worth keeping against Tempered Steel since I have so many ways to slow it down.

    Tree of Redemption: Relevant against almost any deck. Dies to removal, but if I can get a deck to keep in its Doom Blades or force an Oblivion Ring, I consider that a spectacular deal. Can survive Dungove Elder on 12 forests, which is pretty spectacular too, and there's pretty much no match where the lifegain isn't going to help you out. Think of it as RUg's own little Timely Reinforcements. Too bad Snapcaster can't target him.. :p

    Chandra, the Firebrand: I touched on why I chose her, but since I have a not-that-well-liked card as a 3-of maindeck, I thought I'd elaborate. You've already seen my thoughts on Geistflame, and Chandra is basically either a Geistflame + eat a removal, or many, many Geistflames coupled with free Reverberates. 3 mana for a double morbid Brimstone Volley can easily cinch up a game, as can a double Devil's Play. And then of course there's the infamous 3 mana turn 5 draw 4 cards double proliferate combo that we're all familiar with, but I won't harp on that. I can't see myself tapping out to play her often unless my opponent is topdecking and has a substantial X/1 threat on the board but she's a great way for a control deck to put down huge value on turn 6 while keeping mana open for Leak. And then the shenanigans begin... Cool

    Arc Trail: I won't always want to tap out to play it turn 2, but sometimes it's well worth it (goodbye Grand Abolisher and Signal Pest). And it's a great turn 4 play too if you're anxious about letting something slip through.

    Frost Titan: Locks down that damned Tree. Beats like a champ. Negates that Bloodthirsted Furyborn Hellkite you somehow let slip through. Built-in Spell Pierce. Seems like a great value, and I'm going to say for what this deck does, he's a much better pick than Inferno Titan. In ideal circumstances, won't end the game as quickly, but if there's a big blocker (or two, even) on the table, he's better protection and a faster clock all while being harder to remove. Pretty sure on 1 maindeck and 1 sideboard, since lots of matchups he probably won't be that relevant. He also happens to be the only Titan I don't own at least one of. Slant

    Ancient Grudge: Pretty sure this is a maindeck two-of at the moment. Only deck I've seen that doesn't run at least a few artifacts is Illusions, and believe me, from what I've seen, it takes more than two dead draws to make this deck lose to illusions.

    Naturalize: I can't see this as more than a 1-of right now. Most decks with powerful enchantments are also decks that subsist on powerful artifacts, and I can already kill 8 of those after boarding. If I'm desperate, I can also sideboard the 2 Beast Within. My mind may change as the meta shapes up, but as it is, I don't think I'd get much out of more. Pity, too, because this is the first Naturalize with really beautiful art, so I wouldn't mind staring at it for most of a game. :p

    Slagstorm: I'm thinking sideboard. I don't see decks with lots of toughness

    Blasphemous Act: Not in the deck, but it's one I'm keeping my eye on. Again, if we see inordinate numbers of creatures quickly (like through token abuse), it could be worthwhile. Just seems too cute right now.

    Beast Within: Mostly for resolved Walkers that I can't reliably burn (particularly Gideon and Elspeth, who I see all the time, and the occasional Koth and Jace 3.0). Can of course use it against whatever I need to at the moment, but most any threat I have easier ways of countering. Nice for its versatility and reach, though.

    Turn to Frog is probably too cute; it's mostly there because I so badly want to cast it in response to an opponent's Tree activating, plus it's pretty abusable with this deck. May actually be worth running over Dismember if I'm feeling bold, but I doubt it.

    Dismember: I always hate not running a few of these, but having access to counter, Brimstone Volley, Geistflame, Burning Vengeance, Devil's Play, and Chandra makes me wonder a bit about even having 2 in the sideboard, let alone maindecking it. Would really appreciate some advice on this one.

    Spellskite: It seems like one of those creatures you need a really good reason not to put into your deck. Well, I think this deck has a really good reason: there's next to nothing for your opponent to target. I can see it protecting Chandra or Frostie, so it's worth considering. Problem is I shouldn't have trouble protecting them anyways, since I usually won't tap out to play a threat unless it's a game-ender. I suppose playing, say Frost Titan into 4 untapped mana against UBC, they could doom blade, force a counter, then untap and play Grave Titan, but even then, I'm in a damn good position because I have a 6/6 and they have 2 2/2s and a 6/6 that will never untap. So on this one I'm looking for someone to convince me that I could really use Spellskite, because right now I can't find a good reason to run it and feel kind of silly looking at a decklist that doesn't include it. Even with all the artifact hate running around out there.

    Shrine of Burning Rage: But wait, didn't I say I'd decided SoBR was horrible for this deck? Yeah, I totally did. But for a while I toyed with the idea of maindecking one, then pulling it out next game after my opponent saw it. When it comes out it's not unlikely to deal a little damage or put on some pressure, and if I can get them to overcompensate on artifact hate, they'll be looking at a bunch of dead draws the next game(s). In the end I decided this was way too cute, especially because it would just deadweight in my hand until turn 6+ usually, but it's a though. And a nasty one at that! Although this is another reason not to run Spellskite; all that artifact hate that would have been useless otherwise is suddenly very relevant if you're running Skites.

    Lands: Like the first time around, I have no idea how to configure my lands. I'm not sure on the Copperline Gorges; on one hand, I only have 5 mountains and 2 forests, and turns 2 and 3 are where I start to build momentum, so I don't want to miss a critical play to a tapped land. On the other hand, I have 3 Caravan Vigils, which could smooth out Rootbound Crag. But then again again, unless I need the mana fixing, I often want to hold Caravan Vigil for its Morbid trigger, which would be turn 2 at the very earliest.

    Anyways, that package, focus, and meta in mind, how am I looking? Do my reasons for including the cards I included make sense? I know it's hard to say before rotation, but given the trend towards artifacts and control, am I looking all right over all? The deck's structure seems solid to me, but being pretty new at the tournament scene, I'm not familiar with the finer points of deck tuning, particularly when it comes to what to run maindeck vs. sideboard and how to answer various threats. Any advice, or just conversation and mullings-over would be appreciated. Cool
    Last edited by Ghisteslwchlohm: 9/23/2011 12:08:38 PM
    Simic "Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely." Simic
  • #2
    I'm running into a lot of debate on whether Devil's Play is actually outclassed by Red Sun's Zenith and want to know why you decided on one vs. the other. I'm twiddling my thumbs on the matter myself, and I think the discussion of RSZ and DP is worth having for any deck considering a fireball variant.
    April is the cruelest month, breeding
    Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
    Dull roots with spring rain.


    -TS Eliot, The Waste Land
  • #3
    There were a couple reasons I decided on Devil's Play. First, I don't know how big the exile clause is going to be. If I end up seeing one too many Skaab Ruinators cast off my burns, I may switch to Zenith. Second is the virtual card advantage it can get you if run alongside Desperate Ravings. It won't get pitched often, but it's certainly a factor. Third is that I don't see myself using it as creature removal that often; I think it's much more likely that I'd use it as a finisher. Last is because of how control-heavy my local meta is, at least pre-rotation. Having a burn/finisher I can reuse if it gets countered (and re-double if Chandra's in play) is really relevant, since it fits into my attrition-based style of wearing control decks' resources thin while replenishing my own hand.

    Like I said, I'm open to persuasion, but Devil's Play just seems to mesh better with my deck given what I usually face off against.
    Simic "Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely." Simic
  • #4
    Devil's Play is better the RSZ b/c RSZ shuffles back into the library and you have to redraw it versus turn 1: I DP you for 9, turn 2 I DP you for 7-8. It's just better b/c of flashback.
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  • #5
    That's the same reasoning that I was using when deciding on the card originally, but I was playtesting RSZ just to make sure I wasn't missing out on some huge deal. In my experience, DP has always been easier to recast and is an awesome late-game finisher. Thanks for the input guys Smile
    April is the cruelest month, breeding
    Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
    Dull roots with spring rain.


    -TS Eliot, The Waste Land
  • #6
    Been tweaking a little further; I'm still not quite sold on Burning Vengeance. It sure comes in handy turns 6+ with all the flashback you can start paying for at that point, but being completely dependent on having drawn (and cast and not having recast beforehand) other spells is a big barrier.

    Tooling around with some Chandra's Phoenixes for the consistent and pretty much assured damage (and desperation blocker). May swap two in for the two Vengeance, which I'd put in the sideboard in place of Dismember(?) and get thrown back in the maindeck against creature-heavy midrange decks.

    I'm growing less fond of Dismember for this deck because I seldom run into 4-5 toughness creatures. Most beaters have to pass the Dismember test for inclusion, so it doesn't really enable many kills I wouldn't be able to pull off without it (especially since by that point I can likely counter big threats anyways). Maybe of I start seeing Hero of Bladehold, but I've literally never had that card played against me at my local tournaments, despite most of the decks having some white.
    Simic "Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely." Simic
  • #7
  • #8
    Burning Vengeance.dec goes here?

    List ive been tinkering with

    Anrchstpunk1's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Delver of Secrets

    4 Burning Vengeance

    4 Shock
    3 Incinerate
    2 Galvanic Blast
    3 Ancient Grudge
    1 Devil's Play
    4 Desperate Ravings
    4 Ponder
    4 Think Twice
    4 Mana Leak

    4 Sulfur Falls
    4 Hinterland Harbor
    2 Rootbound Crag
    1 Forest
    6 Mountain
    6 Island



    So far the Delver seems awesome. Flips super easy and really puts the pressure on.
    Ancient Grudge should have game against most of the field, might cut to 2.
    I don't know how I feel about SCM, but I want to try him.
    Last edited by Anrchstpunk1: 10/1/2011 2:32:48 PM
    Quote from SiNcereX

    this card is absolutely useless. Limited use for sure, but outside of that, i will light my cigarettes with it.


    Cube 360 cards, unpowered.

    Modern:

    URStormUR

    Block
    RWHumansRW
    URGStalkerURG
  • #9
    Quote from Anrchstpunk1
    Burning Vengeance.dec goes here?

    List ive been tinkering with

    Ghisteslwchlohm's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Delver of Secrets

    4 Burning Vengeance

    4 Shock
    3 Incinerate
    2 Galvanic Blast
    3 Ancient Grudge
    1 Devil's Play
    4 Desperate Ravings
    4 Ponder
    4 Think Twice
    4 Mana Leak

    4 Sulfur Falls
    4 Hinterland Harbor
    2 Rootbound Crag
    1 Forest
    6 Mountain
    6 Island



    So far the Delver seems awesome. Flips super easy and really puts the pressure on.
    Ancient Grudge should have game against most of the field, might cut to 2.
    I don't know how I feel about SCM, but I want to try him.


    [edit]You may want to consider some sweepers, since aggro is a big thing right now and always will be relevant to a greater or lesser extent. In my tempo decks, I've started experimenting with Rolling Temblor since it misses a flipped Delver of Secrets and Chandra's Phoenix while having a less punishing color weight than Slagstorm. But Slagstorm certainly has its place too.

    In my opinion, it's hard to justify not running Snapcaster Mage as a 2-of automatically if your deck is blue and heavy on spells. Some decks can support more, some can't support any. You're already spell-heavy, so I'd say start with 3 and see how he works. The Burning Vengeance synergy makes it even more desirable.

    I agree that Delver is a fantastic card for control. It may just be that Tempo is growing on me as a deck type, but even in draw-go, being able to apply some pressure with a 1-drop can be relevant depending on your meta and matchup. And being able to trade up that far is really important.

    The centerpiece of the deck, though, I'm ambivalent on. Burning Vengeance is a card with a lot of potential in R/U. It even placed quite well over the weekend. But it's really, witheringly, matchup dependent. If you can nuke their critters just for flashing back a spell, you're turning your 2-for-1s into 3-for-1s, which is fantastic. But if your opponent doesn't have any 1 or 2 toughness guys, Burning Vengeance likely isn't pulling its weight. I may be wrong on that, because all it takes is 1 Burning Vengeance and 10 flashbacks to win, even if you never swing or cast a burn on your opponent. But it still seems like a risky venture to build your deck around. However, if you're going to do it, I think you did it right. Running a tempo list with Delver allows you to whack creature-light decks down to a much more manageable life total, which Burning Vengeance can finish off easily even if they stabilize. Maybe you'd want to consider Stromkirk Noble in the board against control, which won't have many creatures anyways, giving you more fuel against draw-go. You want those threatening 1-drops down quickly or they'll just eat a board wipe before they can cause enough damage for the rest of your deck to do its thing.

    I've also been putting some more thought and time into running Burning Vengeance with how creature-heavy the meta seems to be right now. Plus I'm shifting more from draw-go to tempo, so I'll let people know how BV fits in the grander draw-go or tempo archetype.
    Last edited by Ghisteslwchlohm: 10/2/2011 11:29:25 AM
    Simic "Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely." Simic
  • #10
    Past In Flames?
  • #11


    I'm torn on Past in Flames, too. I think it's usable, but I don't know if this is the right deck for it. I guess if games really end up dragging on, it could be worth a slot, but I'm struggling with the "how many times will this win me a game where another burn wouldn't, vs. how many times will this sit in my hand while I curse myself for not including an extra burn/counter/draw/whatever spell" problem.

    Honestly I think it comes down to Past in Flames needing to be built around with cards that fuel your graveyard and ramp your mana, and Burning Vengeance needing to be built around with lots of cards that have flashback. The former deck doesn't want many cards that come with flashback, and the latter doesn't want many cards that ramp or fuel its graveyard (usually). Their support structures are just too different for them to work well in tandem.

    It could turn out that I'm completely wrong on that, but I can't see a deck that relies on both of those together working out.

    [edit]Unless you're just talking about the card in general and not in relation to the above posts. In that case, it's certainly worth consideration as a finisher that doesn't care if it gets countered.
    Last edited by Ghisteslwchlohm: 10/2/2011 12:25:53 PM
    Simic "Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely." Simic
  • #12
    I pretty much agree with you 100%.

    I agree about the sweepers, I am just trying to find a nice skeleton for the deck. I have a playset of slagstorms out right now, just need to figure out where they fit.

    I really want to make burning Vengeance work, but I do not think we'll see how much it is capable of until Dark Ascension comes out. I think with even 1-2 more decent flashback cards in U/R might be what the deck needs.

    Snapcaster does seem good. Unfortunately I only have one right now:(.

    Regarding Past in Flames: I think 1-2 might be awesome.
    If you have just one Vengeance out and 6-7 mana, playing PiF and flashbacking a couple shocks or blasts is a lot of damage and definately worth looking into in my opinion.
    Quote from SiNcereX

    this card is absolutely useless. Limited use for sure, but outside of that, i will light my cigarettes with it.


    Cube 360 cards, unpowered.

    Modern:

    URStormUR

    Block
    RWHumansRW
    URGStalkerURG
  • #13
    U/R Vengeance
    A Standard Magic deck, by Kyle McDaniel
    24th place at a Innistrad Standard tournament in Indianapolis, Indiana, United States on 2011-10-02

    Caboose's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Artifact Creatures
    2 Wurmcoil Engine

    Creatures
    1 Phantasmal Image
    4 Snapcaster Mage

    Enchantments
    4 Burning Vengeance

    Instants
    2 Ancient Grudge
    4 Desperate Ravings
    3 Forbidden Alchemy
    4 Incinerate
    4 Mana Leak
    4 Think Twice

    Sorceries
    1 Devil's Play
    3 Slagstorm

    Basic Lands
    8 Island
    7 Mountain

    Lands
    1 Hinterland Harbor
    4 Rootbound Crag
    4 Sulfur Falls



    Here is the list that took 24th at the 5k. With the little testing i have done it is pretty solid. What do you guys think?

    Please use deck tags.
    Last edited by Koopa: 10/2/2011 4:37:45 PM
    Extended:
    Co-founder of :symbu:T.E.P.S.-Ritual Desire B/R mana
  • #14
    I plan on running this deck in the near future.

    I am worried about the mono red/wolf run and tokens matchup though.

    I think that the phantasmal image should be dropped from that list if someone plays it. It doesn't seem like it can do much. Also, this deck needs more win conditions. The deck was only beat once over the weekend, but it had a ton of ties. Another wurmcoil in the main sounds like a good idea.

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  • #15
    Quote from compulsive
    I plan on running this deck in the near future.

    I am worried about the mono red/wolf run and tokens matchup though.

    I think that the phantasmal image should be dropped from that list if someone plays it. It doesn't seem like it can do much. Also, this deck needs more win conditions. The deck was only beat once over the weekend, but it had a ton of ties. Another wurmcoil in the main sounds like a good idea.


    The Image is the fifth snapcaster
  • #16
    Ok so instead of making a new RUG thread I see you want to abuse the powers at be so I thought I'd join in.

    Here's what I came to play with.

    RUg Good StuffMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Frost Titan
    2 Inferno Titan

    4 Ancient Grudge
    4 Think Twice
    4 Mana Leak
    3 Slagstorm
    4 Shrine of Burning Rage
    2 Devil's Play

    4 Sulfur Falls
    4 Rootbound Crag
    9 Mountains
    6 Island
    1 Forest



    I just threw it together but I mostly think that the deck is solid from the point of control.
  • #17
    Was just discussing that new burning vengeance combo deck with a teammate and after some thought this our attempt at making the deck viable it's probably terrible but hey we got bored testing control mirrors all day.;)

    Slant Well it's fun to play anyway Rolleyes
    dpg20's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    RUG Vengeance
    Lands 22
    4 Sulfur Falls
    4 Rootbound Crag
    10 Island
    4 Forest

    Creatures 4
    4 Snapcaster Mage

    Spells 30
    4 Dream Twist
    4 Forbidden Alchemy
    3 Mulch
    3 Memory's Journey
    4 Rolling Temblor
    4 Mana Leak
    4 Visions of Beyond
    2 Past in Flames
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Devil's Play

    Enchantments 4
    4 Burning Vengeance

  • #18
    I've got to say that this deck style is amazing. Reminds me so much of rift/slide decks. The crazy thing is that its only in the first ⅓ and is already a solid contender. I've had very favorable matchups with this build.
    megatog201's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 grim lavamancer
    2 Delver of secrets
    3 snapcaster mage
    4 perilous myr
    4 burning vengeance
    3 gut shot
    4 ponder
    3 incinerate
    4 brimstone volley
    2 past in flames
    2 ancient grudge
    3 infernal plundge
    22 lands

    This build explodes from nowhere. I've dealt 15 or so damage turn 4.
    I hate to say it but leaks have moved to the sb. It was a hard decision to make but the deck performs better with them gone. Favorable matchups all over the place. Game one is almost always hard but I like this build for game one because it has so many answers. First off most decks don't run any form of enchantment removal MD. That gives us a huge edge. Just stay alive and you will win with BV activations. Game 2 it gets crazy. You attack them at the heart of their decks. Slags for aggro. Shatterstorm and more ancient grudges for steel decks. Slag comes in here also. Control gets leaks boarded in. Pod isn't much of a problem because we get more grudges and the burn keeps the small guys off the field. They have to actually resolve a big guy. Flash freeze and leaks stop them nicely.
    megatog201's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    2 green shatterstorm
    4 mana leak
    1 ancient grudge
    4 slagstorm
    1 phantasmal image
    3 flashfreeze

    is my current sb.
  • #19
    I have to say, I love gut shot in your deck, megatog201. It's a damn solid card to begin with given all the good targets it has, and the interactions with Past in Flames/Burning Vengeance are great. Pay 2 life, kill a critter, and deal 2-8 damage elsewhere. Seems like a good deal.

    I don't, however, think that the 4 Lavamancers are going to pull their weight in this list. I don't think you're likely to need them to keep the board clear, and you're eating away at Past in Flames/Snapcaster Mage/Burning Vengeance fuel every time you use them. I've been running 2 Lavamancers in my decks of this type and found that's a good number if you want any. But I could be wrong on that.

    I'm also a fan of Infernal Plunge, but I've been too much of a pansy to try it. If there's a burn deck that it belongs in, it's this one.

    Also, would you consider Forbidden Alchemy? I've found it works well in Vengeance decks, it's also decent at smoothing out your draws to an extent in the absence of Preordain.
    Simic "Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely." Simic
  • #20
    I'm putting together a modified version of Kyle's list for FNM... I haven't worked the exact list, but I'm definitely adding a 3rd 6 drop, most likely inferno Titan.
  • #21
    The deck doesn't need it. I only had wurmcoils in there because mono red was everywhere and I wanted to gain life after I stabilized as I had no hard counters in the main

    @op- Burning Vengeace is insane against aggro. Why would you NOT run 4?
    Last edited by Proth!co: 10/5/2011 1:14:06 PM
    Quote from jadencamelot
    Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.

    You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
  • #22
    I like Forbidden Alchemy as it goes nicely with Snapcaster Mage.

    Might have to try out Gut Shot. Seems pretty cool.

    I also found that Mulch is definitely handy for stabilising that 3 color mana base, you don't mind stuff being dumped into your yard.
    Quote from void_nothing
    Oh my God, you took him seriously.


    Quote from KoolKoal
    No

    ME and CC should be ashamed. They actually managed to make the spam less interesting than usual.
  • #23
    I like having options.. I'd hate to fold to a well placed surgical extraction... A backup inferno Titan covers that. I should have my list tonight.
  • #24
    @op- Burning Vengeace is insane against aggro. Why would you NOT run 4?


    That depends on how aggro ends up playing out. If turn 3 I'm staring down 7 power and I'm at 5 life, I'm not going to want to play a card that taps me out on my turn and does literally nothing until my next turn. I am running two lists that have 4 burning vengeance, but I certainly don't evaluate as a card you need a reason not to run 4 of. My original RUg list looks like it will probably end up having 4 as well, since my latest experiments in pressure aren't looking like they'll hold up (Gut Shot basically ruins any chance Skinshifter and Delver have of being consistent pressure cards).

    I'll try to post a deck list later today or tonight. I will also say that I've become increasingly fond of Thrun in this archetype, since you can tap out for him on turn 4 without needing to hold mana to protect him (aside from Day or getting him withered by Black Sun's) and usually your opponent can't take over a game from you being tapped out that early.


    OK, here's the newest list, featuring Burning Vengeance. I don't know if it will carry its weight against other control decks, but I guess it could be useful in that if it resolves, your flashbacks will still burn them even if they get countered. Thrun seems like a decent card all around and very powerful against most control decks, as I discussed above. But the color weight may lead me elsewhere. We'll have to see.

    Death of a Thousand StingsMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures: 6
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Thrun, the Last Troll
    1 Frost Titan

    Burn: 9
    2 Devil's Play
    3 Geistflame
    2 Arc Trail
    2 Slagstorm

    Counter: 6
    4 Mana Leak
    2 Dissipate

    Draw: 8
    4 Think Twice
    4 Desperate Ravings

    Utility: 7
    2 Ancient Grudge
    4 Burning Vengeance
    1 Chandra, the Firebrand

    Land: 24
    6 Mountain
    5 Island
    1 Forest
    4 Sulfur Falls
    4 Hinterland Harbor
    4 Rootbound Crag



    This deck may maindeck too much anti-aggro and not enough anti-control. But it does have some good maindeck anti-control tools, like Thrun and Devil's Play. Phoenixes are probably too slow against many decks, but they're a consistent beater, so they'd get boarded in against control since they can easily be brought back after (most) removal and (most) counters. Inferno Titan goes in against Liliana since she laughs at Frost Titan. Beast Within is my only source of removal against resolved enchantments and any planeswalkers/fatties I can't reasonably burn away (Gideon comes to mind). Tree may get pulled out since most aggro decks are running Hero of Oxid Ridge these days, so extra burn may help more.

    I suck at making a mana base. For all I know what I'm using is absolute garbage, but it just sorta seemed OK so that's what I have. I'd like to stick with the green splash, but it may end up being impractical for what it nets me.

    Finally, I haven't been to a local tournament since rotation, hence the splitting maindeck attention between aggro and control. Once I've been to a couple, I'll have a better idea of how to tune.
    Last edited by Ghisteslwchlohm: 10/5/2011 4:35:36 PM
    Simic "Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely." Simic
  • #25
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