I plan on doing u/b control with gravecrawlersx4, havengul lichx3, a grimgrin x1 , and im really thinking about a couple of geralfs mind crusher. Those being the creatures in the deck. I currently run a grixis build but zombies have a nice inevitability with gravecrawlers. I want to see how much I can abuse secrets of the dead aswell.
i dont know why nobody is using apocalypse. Yeah, i get it thats a 6 mana spell on an agro. But it happens to win the game by itself. Its mere existence makes solar flare and other counter decks unable to tap out from turn 6 on. Its amazing !!! Ill throw some ideas for this style of zombie decks (ie. fast and eficient creatures backed by "burn")
1cc
8x 2 power creatures. we cant really run delver cause we need BB and BBB on second and third turn.
2cc
Screeching Skaab - fills the grave, ok stats.
Highborn Ghoul - a way to push damage through tokens. i like it.
Snapcaster mage - depends on how heavy we are going into graveyard theme, and how many inst/sorcery we are playing. Possible contender.
Black cat - i really, really really dont like it. Its a 1/1 till our opponent has a card he wont mind discarding. Then its nothing.
Phantasmal image - really strong with messenger. Shame we dont have another amazing undying zombie. Also thrun, geist, etc.
3cc
Diregraf Captain - fantastic lord. Cant see him as less than 4.
Geralf's messenger - along gravecrawler, the reason why zombies.dec exist. 4 of.
Cemitery reaper - another good lord, can fight undying and the UW land. Good meta call i think.
Unbreathing Horde - Can be pretty big really fast. Its also really hard for red to deal with a 5/5 horde. the 3cc spot is so crowded, hard to find a slot.
Armored Skaab - as much as i like his ability, his stats suck for an agressive deck.
Ruined Skaab - good recurring threat. But takes too much away from apocalypse. Also UU.
4cc
Obliterator - not a zombie. Who cares ???? A king in this creture meta. Also, kills red for good ans wracks wolf run. (go ahead... attack me with primeval)
Skin render - depends on meta. Not that good against tokens.
Havengul Runebinder - UU pretty much kills his chance. Also, i prefer to remove creatures from their grave. reaper is better.
5cc
Grimgrin - Sac outlet, a beast with crawler. killer of titans and obliterators. Sign me up.
Havengul lich - too cute. For one more mana we can bring back the whole gang so whats the point ?
6cc+
Grave titan - again, for 6 mana i think apocalypse is just better. A contender if graveyard hate is too common
Suport spells:
Counters
Mana leak - the obvious one. Not too much to say.
Misstep - Great sideboard i think, especially if the cage is widely played.
Steel Sabotage - Again, cage. Can answer a cage after first turn, so not terrible. Also, better against tempered steel.
Creature Removal (ahhh... so many options)
Blade x GftT - Hard to say right now. Meta call.
Dismember - This is not for black. Its for our cousins without removal.
Gutshot - see dismember.
Smallpox - Ahh... the thoughts of discarding a crawler and sac a messenger. I have them too. Needs to be tested.
Geths verdict - geist, thrun, etc etc etc
Tribute to the hunger - worse than verdict on this heavy B deck
Lilliana - Obvious amazing. But the 3 spot is sooooooo crowded...
Others
Zombie Apocalypse - It will kill them on the spot. Just think about returning captain, grimgrin and 2x messengers. Thats 12 damage. Its a shame that our sac outlet is also legendary...
Ghouls chant - Great tutor lategame. Can also bring back onr grimgrin to avoid legendary rule when u call the apocalypse.
alchemy - to fancy and slow i think. But has great sinergy with apocalypse.
Swords - possible on side. dont think we will have slots on main.
Lashrite - weak with the blue splash i think.
Yeah, i know that this list has 61 cards. I dont know what to cut. Also i would love to squeeze the UB land (forgot the name) but i dont think we have space for a colorless land.
The main problem of apocalypse is zombies do not kill on the spot when they come back and opponent has one turn to wipe the board or just kill you with his things. Otherwise it's very close to goblin-bidding of old. Veeeeery close.
Zombies really need sacrifice outlet like viscera seer for apocalypse to kill. Like super really need it.
The main problem of apocalypse is zombies do not kill on the spot when they come back and opponent has one turn to wipe the board or just kill you with his things. Otherwise it's very close to goblin-bidding of old. Veeeeery close.
Zombies really need sacrifice outlet like viscera seer for apocalypse to kill. Like super really need it.
The problem with a board wipe vs Zombies post Apocalypse is that we have the Diregraf Captain to make them lose one life per Zombie killed. So if we revive five Zombies and have two Captains and they wipe, they are losing twelve life (two per non-Captain then one per Captain for not affecting themselves) and I would hope that we could manage to have more than seven Zombies total post Apocalypse. Not to mention we could possibly have Mikaeus on the field to prevent a wipe regardless.
Ya, they still get a turn to respond with an attack, but if that's the case you probably should have lost anyway.
I think the core of the deck is this minus the discard and the Cat, and there are a few other directions that might be interesting to take it. Spectral Flight could be a very powerful card, and one can always add Bump in the Night as well.
I would put 3 Geth's Verdict on the sb instantly, but not main.
The main problem of apocalypse is zombies do not kill on the spot when they come back and opponent has one turn to wipe the board or just kill you with his things. Otherwise it's very close to goblin-bidding of old. Veeeeery close.
Zombies really need sacrifice outlet like viscera seer for apocalypse to kill. Like super really need it.
I agree to an extent, but I really think people are underestimating the human board wipe here.... U/W Humans, Solar Flare and Delver decks are all pretty popular so I think I would SB this card in from Grave Titan as a finisher.
UW will probably have leak for it. On the other hand they probably will board out leaks against zombies, so yeah.
Anyway I agree that apocalypse is not just flavor card and resolved apocalypse will win the game in 9 out of 10 times. A shame zombies don't really have a way to ramp into it while maintaining aggression.
Maybe some midrange build that plays less of 1-2 drops and more of 3-4 drops could get there.
Creatures:
2CMC
Now this is hard, because Highborn Ghoul is just bad. Against aggro and especially RDW he will die easily because of 1 toughness. Against control decks he does not need intimitade. He's only upside is that he actually can block the turn he came, lol.
And Screeching Skaab is even worse, so I don't consider him at all. I don't think that in this deck selfmill is a value.
I really like the idea of Phantasmal Image + Geralf's Messenger. The problem is that you need Messenger on field, so you won't be casting Image T2. And I think we are considering here our T2 drop right? Black Cat seems a bit meh too. Its random discard so may turn out well and it will get all tribal-merits, but I kinda don't like this card. I just prefer Distress, I guess. Snapcaster Mage is great in this deck, because most of our noncreature spells are <= 2 CMC. But he is not T2 too. I guess that for T2 we will be playing noncreature spells. Distress maybe.
6CMC+
Nah, I wouldn't play them. Not really much other than Titan there. We have enough creatures anyway.
At the two drop you forgot Spellskite who combos in a gross way with a six drop named Mikaeus. I honestly don't think this interaction can be ignored. Mikaeus prevents you from getting board wiped and Spellskite is stupid powerful with Undying.
Regarding chant. I can definitely get on board with this card. A one mana two-for one is a pretty good deal, not to mention the fact that it also serves to put zombies on the field to get back gravecrawlers. I wouldn't go overboard with them, but two would be fine.
Also, I can't really get behind any x/1 creatures (cat and highborn) since tragic slip and gut shot will both be widely used, the only exception being gravecrawler since wasting a card to remove him is an act of desperation.
Is everybody seeing zombies as pure aggro? With some card draw (altar's reap) and/or recursion (ghoulcaller's chant) we could make use out of rooftop storm. It being on the field with Grimgrin Corpse-Born and gravecrawler in the graveyard means grimgrin goes infinite. If diregraf captain is on the field, we don't even have to attack. Of course that all goes to shi- if they drop the cage.
1cc
8x 2 power creatures. we cant really run delver cause we need BB and BBB on second and third turn.
2cc
Screeching Skaab - fills the grave, ok stats.
Highborn Ghoul - a way to push damage through tokens. i like it.
Snapcaster mage - depends on how heavy we are going into graveyard theme, and how many inst/sorcery we are playing. Possible contender.
Black cat - i really, really really dont like it. Its a 1/1 till our opponent has a card he wont mind discarding. Then its nothing.
Phantasmal image - really strong with messenger. Shame we dont have another amazing undying zombie. Also thrun, geist, etc.
3cc
Diregraf Captain - fantastic lord. Cant see him as less than 4.
Geralf's messenger - along gravecrawler, the reason why zombies.dec exist. 4 of.
Cemitery reaper - another good lord, can fight undying and the UW land. Good meta call i think.
Unbreathing Horde - Can be pretty big really fast. Its also really hard for red to deal with a 5/5 horde. the 3cc spot is so crowded, hard to find a slot.
Armored Skaab - as much as i like his ability, his stats suck for an agressive deck.
Ruined Skaab - good recurring threat. But takes too much away from apocalypse. Also UU.
4cc
Obliterator - not a zombie. Who cares ???? A king in this creture meta. Also, kills red for good ans wracks wolf run. (go ahead... attack me with primeval)
Skin render - depends on meta. Not that good against tokens.
Havengul Runebinder - UU pretty much kills his chance. Also, i prefer to remove creatures from their grave. reaper is better.
5cc
Grimgrin - Sac outlet, a beast with crawler. killer of titans and obliterators. Sign me up.
Havengul lich - too cute. For one more mana we can bring back the whole gang so whats the point ?
6cc+
Grave titan - again, for 6 mana i think apocalypse is just better. A contender if graveyard hate is too common
Suport spells:
Counters
Mana leak - the obvious one. Not too much to say.
Misstep - Great sideboard i think, especially if the cage is widely played.
Steel Sabotage - Again, cage. Can answer a cage after first turn, so not terrible. Also, better against tempered steel.
Creature Removal (ahhh... so many options)
Blade x GftT - Hard to say right now. Meta call.
Dismember - This is not for black. Its for our cousins without removal.
Gutshot - see dismember.
Smallpox - Ahh... the thoughts of discarding a crawler and sac a messenger. I have them too. Needs to be tested.
Geths verdict - geist, thrun, etc etc etc
Tribute to the hunger - worse than verdict on this heavy B deck
Lilliana - Obvious amazing. But the 3 spot is sooooooo crowded...
Others
Zombie Apocalypse - It will kill them on the spot. Just think about returning captain, grimgrin and 2x messengers. Thats 12 damage. Its a shame that our sac outlet is also legendary...
Ghouls chant - Great tutor lategame. Can also bring back onr grimgrin to avoid legendary rule when u call the apocalypse.
alchemy - to fancy and slow i think. But has great sinergy with apocalypse.
Swords - possible on side. dont think we will have slots on main.
Lashrite - weak with the blue splash i think.
Sample decklist
4x Gravecrawler
4x Screeching Skaab
2x Highborn Ghoul
2x Phantasmal Image
4x Geralf's messenger
4x Diregraf Captain
2x Cemetery Reaper
2x Phyrexian Obliterator
2x Grimgrin
2x Mana leak
2x Doom blade
2x Lilliana
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Dark Coast
2x Islands
13x Swamps
Yeah, i know that this list has 61 cards. I dont know what to cut. Also i would love to squeeze the UB land (forgot the name) but i dont think we have space for a colorless land.
Thoughts ???
Zombies really need sacrifice outlet like viscera seer for apocalypse to kill. Like super really need it.
The problem with a board wipe vs Zombies post Apocalypse is that we have the Diregraf Captain to make them lose one life per Zombie killed. So if we revive five Zombies and have two Captains and they wipe, they are losing twelve life (two per non-Captain then one per Captain for not affecting themselves) and I would hope that we could manage to have more than seven Zombies total post Apocalypse. Not to mention we could possibly have Mikaeus on the field to prevent a wipe regardless.
Ya, they still get a turn to respond with an attack, but if that's the case you probably should have lost anyway.
"Reveal a Dragon"
4 Gravecrawler
4 Highborn Ghoul
2 Black Cat
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Cemetery Reaper
4 Diregraf Captain
2 Distress
3 Go for the Throat
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
13 Swamp
I think the core of the deck is this minus the discard and the Cat, and there are a few other directions that might be interesting to take it. Spectral Flight could be a very powerful card, and one can always add Bump in the Night as well.
I would put 3 Geth's Verdict on the sb instantly, but not main.
Edit: I miss IoK and Duress
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
I agree to an extent, but I really think people are underestimating the human board wipe here.... U/W Humans, Solar Flare and Delver decks are all pretty popular so I think I would SB this card in from Grave Titan as a finisher.
Anyway I agree that apocalypse is not just flavor card and resolved apocalypse will win the game in 9 out of 10 times. A shame zombies don't really have a way to ramp into it while maintaining aggression.
Maybe some midrange build that plays less of 1-2 drops and more of 3-4 drops could get there.
At the two drop you forgot Spellskite who combos in a gross way with a six drop named Mikaeus. I honestly don't think this interaction can be ignored. Mikaeus prevents you from getting board wiped and Spellskite is stupid powerful with Undying.
Edit: I think everything else is sound logic.
"Reveal a Dragon"
Also, I can't really get behind any x/1 creatures (cat and highborn) since tragic slip and gut shot will both be widely used, the only exception being gravecrawler since wasting a card to remove him is an act of desperation.