My roommate and I have been doing some testing for an Anti-Wolf Run deck, and have discovered just how good Frost Titan is. He completely takes over games (much like most of the Titans), especially when you can drop him on turn 4, except he completely DOMINATES opposing big creatures.
It's been demolishing R/G Wolf-Run, the deck from worlds, and does pretty damn good against control. Aggro is a harder matchup, but Tree of Redemption/Creeping Corrosion beat up on tokens and Tempered Steel
But Snapcaster Mage into Vapor Snag wins SO MANY games. If they're playing lots of hexproof creatures, I could see why it's easily something that should get sided out. I do think Viridian Emissary might be the sideboard card I'm looking for...
I'd switch mana leak in for vapor snags, you don't need to snag stuff when you're swinging frost titans imo. Weenies dont matter cuz you just go bigger, and honestly would you rather bounce a titan or counter it?
Some clone variants could be sweet too, the only thing better than a frost Titan is lots of frost titans!
Also maybe some beast withins? You can lock down either the Titan or the wolf run it fetched with frosty, but wouldn't you rather blow one up?
I recommend adding Phantasmal Image. You can use it to clone your birds for more mana. And you can use it to clone your titan for late-game destruction.
If you're using the Image to clone Birds of Paradise, its weakness to be destroyed by targeting it is almost neglegable because ANY spell can kill the birds anyway.
I like the suggestion to include Cackling Counterpart. It's more expensive than the image, but it's got flashback. Might even be good to use with Snapcaster Mage.
I like the idea, frosty is my favorite of the titans as well. Green ramp into him might be a little more difficult than we like though. If anything, I think that there should be more Vapor Snag effects and less counters. Imagine how annoying for your opponent that every time they try to drop something, it goes right back to their hand? And by the time they get something to resolve, they have a Frost Titan staring them down.
Not saying it is the best strategy, but maybe 4 Vapor Snag and 4 Disperse. Screw your opponents permanents.
I like the idea, frosty is my favorite of the titans as well. Green ramp into him might be a little more difficult than we like though. If anything, I think that there should be more Vapor Snag effects and less counters. Imagine how annoying for your opponent that every time they try to drop something, it goes right back to their hand? And by the time they get something to resolve, they have a Frost Titan staring them down.
Not saying it is the best strategy, but maybe 4 Vapor Snag and 4 Disperse. Screw your opponents permanents.
I really like this idea Apocalypse. I'm going to play FNM tonight with the list as proposed in the initial post and I'll bring a full tournament report for you guys.
I always liked these type of strategies last standard. I piloted a Frosty/Acidic slime topped deck pretty much most of last fall, and bit in the spring (Larry Swasey's UG Vengevine list). I also did a lot of testing with UG Genesis Wave. Whenever a ramp deck is king I like to see if it's viable.
Now I'm going to throw this out here without having tested this list. Take it for what it's worth from just looking at it. The deck is missing Jace.. I know that seems simple but the problem is without card advantage you are playing a similar ramp game to Wolf Run with a weaker end game. You need to get ahead or you lose. Alternatively a better source of ramp you can leverage better would do too. But if it comes down to the same tools, it's the rogue factor that is going to do more towards winning than anything. Frost Titan is better than Inferno Titan in the Wolf Run Mirror for sure, but against anything else? Aggro is a killing especially Mirran Crusader decks. The suggestion to add bounce is pretty decent other than, what do you cut? Permission probably to some degree, since you can't lower threat density.
More often than not when these decks realise they can't truly go bigger consistently they lower their curve slightly into more midrange(since they can't wait til 6 to deal with aggro), which sort of defeats the idea of the deck in the first place, but makes it more consistent. I think this isn't bad for the next few weeks if you expect to see a lot of Iyanaga's list. But I think a lot of aggro decks will make this a lot more difficult to pilot properly.
If I was a fan of this style of deck I'd be looking for some good unique ramp you can leverage best in the next set. Garruk Primal Hunter might be a necessary inclusion. Something at 4 mana that really pushes the game like Hero would be nice too probably in green.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks: GWUKnightfall Modern UWTempo Legacy UGRBurning Wish Cobra Vintage
I always liked these type of strategies last standard. I piloted a Frosty/Acidic slime topped deck pretty much most of last fall, and bit in the spring (Larry Swasey's UG Vengevine list). I also did a lot of testing with UG Genesis Wave. Whenever a ramp deck is king I like to see if it's viable.
Now I'm going to throw this out here without having tested this list. Take it for what it's worth from just looking at it. The deck is missing Jace.. I know that seems simple but the problem is without card advantage you are playing a similar ramp game to Wolf Run with a weaker end game. You need to get ahead or you lose. Alternatively a better source of ramp you can leverage better would do too. But if it comes down to the same tools, it's the rogue factor that is going to do more towards winning than anything. Frost Titan is better than Inferno Titan in the Wolf Run Mirror for sure, but against anything else? Aggro is a killing especially Mirran Crusader decks. The suggestion to add bounce is pretty decent other than, what do you cut? Permission probably to some degree, since you can't lower threat density.
More often than not when these decks realise they can't truly go bigger consistently they lower their curve slightly into more midrange(since they can't wait til 6 to deal with aggro), which sort of defeats the idea of the deck in the first place, but makes it more consistent. I think this isn't bad for the next few weeks if you expect to see a lot of Iyanaga's list. But I think a lot of aggro decks will make this a lot more difficult to pilot properly.
If I was a fan of this style of deck I'd be looking for some good unique ramp you can leverage best in the next set. Garruk Primal Hunter might be a necessary inclusion. Something at 4 mana that really pushes the game like Hero would be nice too probably in green.
Ryan you make some REALLY good points here, something definitely worth listening to, but I think the deck has some serious potential, and so did the best players at my shop. I will be posting a full tournament report in my OP in a little while when I get the time.
It'd be neat to really go balls-to-the-wall trying to ramp quick. play a bunch of mana dorks then gsz, rampant and sphere. Undisrupted that could mean you'd have 6 mana t3 pretty easily, and five very often.
T1 mana dork
T2 mana dork + (another dork/ gsz for another dork / sphere / rampant)
T3 Titan
Seems sweet. Even without an undisrupted nut draw like this you could t3 a slime pretty often then start dropping titans or gszing for more slimes. Clone effects would be sweet too. Just an idea if only joraga treespeaker was still around!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Hey letird, I've been watching SCG St. Louis today and Matthias Hunt's UGr list really caught my, which does some things similar to what you've been testing. You may want to check it out to get some ideas that perhaps address what ryan brought up. I do like your list though. The board control is pretty cool, especially all the Vapor Snag action with Snapcaster, haha. Make sure to read Matthias' comments on his deck so far as well.
There you have it, a deck that can consistently pull a turn 3 titan, with 8 mana dorks and 10 2 mana acceleration (4 rampants and 3 Phantasmal Images that can copy their legends and work as removal, or copy our titans, or just a dork, and 3 gsz to search for a dork or a wincon), acidic slime for whatever we need to kill and a thrun to annoy control players
Haha sweet someone liked the idea! Would have to sb a lot against aggro and maybe mulligan no-action hands more often than most decks but that list could be a lot of fun!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Vapor snag seems bad in that deck, it's negative CA and you can't even really take advantage of the bounce like a tempo deck like illusions or UR who are bouncing stuff so their aggressive creatures can get in. They are actual tempo decks, in this deck bounce would just be stalling things and it would work out poorly for you in the end. I'd -4 vapor snag and either +4 llanowar elf or if you want real removal +2 dismember, +2 beast within or something like that. also gut shot might be better than galvanic blast, it's so awesome in the format right now it's insane and you can kill your opponents one drop and drop a mana dork on your t2 which is sweet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
My roommate and I have been doing some testing for an Anti-Wolf Run deck, and have discovered just how good Frost Titan is. He completely takes over games (much like most of the Titans), especially when you can drop him on turn 4, except he completely DOMINATES opposing big creatures.
It's been demolishing R/G Wolf-Run, the deck from worlds, and does pretty damn good against control. Aggro is a harder matchup, but Tree of Redemption/Creeping Corrosion beat up on tokens and Tempered Steel
Here's the list:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Frost Titan
4 Primeval Titan
Sorceries 8:
4 Ponder
4 Rampant Growth
4 Vapor Snag
4 Dissipate
Land 24:
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Kessig Wolf-Run
1 Mountain
9 Island
7 Forest
3 Autumn's Veil
3 Creeping Corrosion
1 Tree of Redemption
1 Batterskull
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Negate
3 Beast Within
What do you guys think? Hard counters are there to protect your dudes after you get up into ramp territory. Can anyone help with more sideboard cards?
EDIT: Solidified sideboard for tonight. I'll let you know how it goes!
Also... you are right... I HATE playing against Frosty, I don't know why he isnt used in more builds!
I would suggest Viridian Emissary in his spot. He's not guaranteed ramp, but it would help immensely against aggro.
You should take a look this list I've been developing. You could replace Sphinx with Frosty if you like him so much.
My buddy and I will be running that list through our gauntlet this weekend to see how it fares against:
GW Overrun
Solar Flare
RDW
Wolf Run Ramp
Birthing Pod
I will report back after my results.
Draft My Cube!
Some clone variants could be sweet too, the only thing better than a frost Titan is lots of frost titans!
Also maybe some beast withins? You can lock down either the Titan or the wolf run it fetched with frosty, but wouldn't you rather blow one up?
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Acidic Slime
3x Frost Titan
3x Primeval Titan
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
4x Ponder
4x Rampant Growth
4x Mana Leak
2x Crackling Counterpart
2x Negate
8x Forest
6x Island
2x Mountain
4x Hinterland Harbor
2x Kessig Wolf Run
2x Ghost Quarter
Submitting a list for ya'll.
Commander GU Edric Control
t1 land, birds
t2, land, birds, rampant growth
t3, land, frost titan
anyone?
UW Control :symu::symw:
UWr Control :symu::symw::symr:
Commander GU Edric Control
maybe if you ran 4 birds, 4 llanowar elves, and 4 rampant growths. that's probably not worth it though.
UW Control :symu::symw:
UWr Control :symu::symw::symr:
You'd need more 2-cost ramp sources as well, to pull that off consistently.
It's more realistic to go for a turn 3 Acidic Slime and turn 4 Frosty, which is arguably even more sexy.
I think this deck wants Slagstorm real bad.. We need a sweeper otherwise we'll get blown out by RDW, TS, and Haunted
Draft My Cube!
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
I recommend adding Phantasmal Image. You can use it to clone your birds for more mana. And you can use it to clone your titan for late-game destruction.
If you're using the Image to clone Birds of Paradise, its weakness to be destroyed by targeting it is almost neglegable because ANY spell can kill the birds anyway.
I like the suggestion to include Cackling Counterpart. It's more expensive than the image, but it's got flashback. Might even be good to use with Snapcaster Mage.
Who was this directed at, exactly? and what are you talking about?
Draft My Cube!
Not saying it is the best strategy, but maybe 4 Vapor Snag and 4 Disperse. Screw your opponents permanents.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
I really like this idea Apocalypse. I'm going to play FNM tonight with the list as proposed in the initial post and I'll bring a full tournament report for you guys.
Now I'm going to throw this out here without having tested this list. Take it for what it's worth from just looking at it. The deck is missing Jace.. I know that seems simple but the problem is without card advantage you are playing a similar ramp game to Wolf Run with a weaker end game. You need to get ahead or you lose. Alternatively a better source of ramp you can leverage better would do too. But if it comes down to the same tools, it's the rogue factor that is going to do more towards winning than anything. Frost Titan is better than Inferno Titan in the Wolf Run Mirror for sure, but against anything else? Aggro is a killing especially Mirran Crusader decks. The suggestion to add bounce is pretty decent other than, what do you cut? Permission probably to some degree, since you can't lower threat density.
More often than not when these decks realise they can't truly go bigger consistently they lower their curve slightly into more midrange(since they can't wait til 6 to deal with aggro), which sort of defeats the idea of the deck in the first place, but makes it more consistent. I think this isn't bad for the next few weeks if you expect to see a lot of Iyanaga's list. But I think a lot of aggro decks will make this a lot more difficult to pilot properly.
If I was a fan of this style of deck I'd be looking for some good unique ramp you can leverage best in the next set. Garruk Primal Hunter might be a necessary inclusion. Something at 4 mana that really pushes the game like Hero would be nice too probably in green.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
Ryan you make some REALLY good points here, something definitely worth listening to, but I think the deck has some serious potential, and so did the best players at my shop. I will be posting a full tournament report in my OP in a little while when I get the time.
T1 mana dork
T2 mana dork + (another dork/ gsz for another dork / sphere / rampant)
T3 Titan
Seems sweet. Even without an undisrupted nut draw like this you could t3 a slime pretty often then start dropping titans or gszing for more slimes. Clone effects would be sweet too. Just an idea if only joraga treespeaker was still around!
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
http://starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_ugr_wolf_run_ramp_wi.html
Current Decks
Standard:
GWB Junk Midrange BWG
RWB Mardu Midrange BWR
Modern:
GWB Angel Pod BWG
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Phantasmal Image
1 Thrun, The last Troll
3 Acidic Slime
4 Frost Titan
4 Primeval Titan
4 Ponder
4 Rampant Growth
3 Green Sun Zennit
Instants 4:
4 Mana Leak
Land 22:
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Kessig Wolf-Run
1 Mountain
7 Island
9 Forest
There you have it, a deck that can consistently pull a turn 3 titan, with 8 mana dorks and 10 2 mana acceleration (4 rampants and 3 Phantasmal Images that can copy their legends and work as removal, or copy our titans, or just a dork, and 3 gsz to search for a dork or a wincon), acidic slime for whatever we need to kill and a thrun to annoy control players
and some mana leak for some post titan protection
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Frost Titan
2 Primeval Titan
2 Inferno Titan
Artifacts (4):
4 Sphere of the Suns
Instants (8):
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (6):
2 Devil's Play
4 Rampant Growth
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Hinterland Harbor
1 Rootbound Crag
2 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Kessig Wolf Run
6 Forest
4 Island
3 Mountain
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Flashfreeze
2 Cackling Counterpart
3 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Batterskull
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Draft My Cube!
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals