How are you playing FNM with cards that haven't been released yet?
Edit: TBH, I'll probably leave ghost quarter out. Depend if anyone at my card shop ends up playing the trample land.
A lot of people use Cockatrice, MWS, and Proxies to playtest right now
______________________________________
Well testing didn't go so well =/ there are cards that I definitely miss from my fish version. The most important being Aether Adept.
I got rolled over by werewolves because this version is too slow and GBW Pod wrecked me with Massacre Wurms... I lost to it 1-2 with both my losses being sealed by massacre wurms... UGH >_<
Changes I am considering-
2 less lands. I have WAY too much filtering to be playing 24 lands. I rarely ever missed a land drop and it killed me -_-* I can afford to miss a few.
Going to put Aether Adept in the 60 MD. I love that card and copying it with Phantasmal Image makes your opponent lose even more tempo. It needs to be back in.
Visions Of Beyond was dreadful and I honestly cant imagine Think Twice being any better. Of course visions could have just been playing bad because I got in some awkward positions
After some changes and editing some of the numbers that my creatures are in (Ruinator should be a 3 of not 4 of...) I will update a list later =D goodluck to all
A lot of people use Cockatrice, MWS, and Proxies to playtest right now
______________________________________
Well testing didn't go so well =/ there are cards that I definitely miss from my fish version. The most important being Aether Adept.
I got rolled over by werewolves because this version is too slow and GBW Pod wrecked me with Massacre Wurms... I lost to it 1-2 with both my losses being sealed by massacre wurms... UGH >_<
Changes I am considering-
2 less lands. I have WAY too much filtering to be playing 24 lands. I rarely ever missed a land drop and it killed me -_-* I can afford to miss a few.
Going to put Aether Adept in the 60 MD. I love that card and copying it with Phantasmal Image makes your opponent lose even more tempo. It needs to be back in.
Visions Of Beyond was dreadful and I honestly cant imagine Think Twice being any better. Of course visions could have just been playing bad because I got in some awkward positions
After some changes and editing some of the numbers that my creatures are in (Ruinator should be a 3 of not 4 of...) I will update a list later =D goodluck to all
Alt art Gid orry? pics or it didn't happen ;p Aether Adept looks to show promise. But yeah that's how I felt about visions when I saw it in your build and maybe it was just awkward hand but it's hard to pull off if a grave doesn't have 20 cards in them fast enough.
Yeah I'm play testing with Cockatrice and my deck is getting rolled but I didn't want to make any ISD changes to it yet but the other deck has ISD cards lol
Played my last FNM with my current decklist. Enjoyed it, even though I went 2-1, losing to a homebrew RDW. Beat a TS deck (kinda easy with hexproof and Grand Arch) and a mono:symb: infect. had some trouble with this one, but Thopter Assembly and Elixir of Immortality were houses in this match-up. I didn't use the Elixir for life gain, but to get the blockers back into my library. Master Theif from the SB was also great against the Infect deck and TS decks. I don't know what I am going to replace in m current decklist, since my LGS has some new players and they like their home-brew's.
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Alright, gonna try to get a general concensus on what needs to get changed for rotation. Obviously, get rid of the cards/strategies that go away (Big Blue, Fish), change U/b, anything else?
EDIT: I'm not even gonna talk about my FNM experience. I went 1-3, with only 2 wins total. Ugh. I FINALLY got my Sideboard done, still need wurmcoils, blargh. I did play a hilarious match against U/w Grand Architect Illusions. The deck was really good, guy went 4-0, don't have the list. He said he'd post it later.
I've been testing a hybrid U/W build lately...
One that incorporates both the grand architect build and the suntitan recurrance as two separate wincons.
The deck just BEGS for a board-wiping effect, since our critters grow really big really fast with all the lord effects, and hexproof in play so I decided to make a hybrid of the two. The deck actually expects/wants a board-wiper, to some extent.
The deck starts out as a blue-agro deck, with bears, unreals and images. From there, two directions it can go are the archi or titan.
Without a board wiping effect or similar, the beats the tiny blue guys deal can culminate to a Grand Architect->Wurmcoil/Steel hellkite to finish.
With a board wiping effect, the plan goes into sun-titan, recurring Images from the yard copying the titan, giving me multiples out in play and eventually recurring everything from the graveyard quite easily.
I don't know what spells to run so I thought 3 O-rings and 4 negates were okay. I don't know what counterspells to use either, though. Comments on that would be welcomed.
I'm thinking of adding more lands, but so far 21 has been somewhat stable for me.
For the mirror (if mono-U), I would board out the titans and bring in an additional O-ring and two Molten-Tail Masticore to ping away at enemy lords.
Alright, gonna try to get a general concensus on what needs to get changed for rotation. Obviously, get rid of the cards/strategies that go away (Big Blue, Fish), change U/b, anything else?
EDIT: I'm not even gonna talk about my FNM experience. I went 1-3, with only 2 wins total. Ugh. I FINALLY got my Sideboard done, still need wurmcoils, blargh. I did play a hilarious match against U/w Grand Architect Illusions. The deck was really good, guy went 4-0, don't have the list. He said he'd post it later.
Sorry to hear that.
---
The match up section should be taken down completely. It's no longer accurate, especially since we don't know what decks are even competitive yet.
I haven't seen anyone use Venser recently. He's just not very popular.
Visions of beyond, that skaab dude, and self mill looks decent. I know someone is doing it, and at least one other person is interested. It's honestly not a bad idea. When it's finished it deserves a spot.
Alright, gonna try to get a general concensus on what needs to get changed for rotation. Obviously, get rid of the cards/strategies that go away (Big Blue, Fish), change U/b, anything else?
You can't really say that Fish went away since Fish just means you are playing a fast tempo deck with lots of permission
I like my deck because nothing changed other than I added a better counterspell with Dismiss and traded my Preordains for Think Twice
Alright, gonna try to get a general concensus on what needs to get changed for rotation. Obviously, get rid of the cards/strategies that go away (Big Blue, Fish), change U/b, anything else?
EDIT: I'm not even gonna talk about my FNM experience. I went 1-3, with only 2 wins total. Ugh. I FINALLY got my Sideboard done, still need wurmcoils, blargh. I did play a hilarious match against U/w Grand Architect Illusions. The deck was really good, guy went 4-0, don't have the list. He said he'd post it later.
I am liking the idea of adding Blighted Agent. Infect as an alternate win-con seems sexy. I will have to test it, but it seems viable.
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First and foremost, I would like to state that this thread was very productive in my attempt to put together this Illusion Deck I've been working on for about a month now. It is good to get the opinions of minds much more experienced than my own in the realm of magic, and it seems I have come to the right place. That being said, here is what I have narrowed my deck down to:
I am VERY enamored with hideous visage, as it is a game clincher in many situations, and I believe I have constructed a fairly good sideboard. That being said, what can I do better with the ebb and flow of this deck?
First and foremost, I would like to state that this thread was very productive in my attempt to put together this Illusion Deck I've been working on for about a month now. It is good to get the opinions of minds much more experienced than my own in the realm of magic, and it seems I have come to the right place. That being said, here is what I have narrowed my deck down to:
I am VERY enamored with hideous visage, as it is a game clincher in many situations, and I believe I have constructed a fairly good sideboard. That being said, what can I do better with the ebb and flow of this deck?
Interesting, i see you choose not to use bears, can you explain why? and I was thinking that you could get rid of one swamp and replace it for another Mana Leak maybe?
Interesting, i see you choose not to use bears, can you explain why? and I was thinking that you could get rid of one swamp and replace it for another Mana Leak maybe?
That's a good question. To tell you the truth, I got caught up putting the deck together and forgot my favorite one cost creature, Phantasmal Bear. Having said that, I probably will add them back in there, but I'm not sure what to take out for them. Any suggestions? And another question I would like to pose. Which is generally more useful: paying two swamps to get rid of one card in my opponnents hand Dismiss , or a three cost, one swamp, in Mind Rot ? Dismiss gets rid of a card that may slow the flow of my deck, or increase the flow of theirs, but discarding two cards allows for less options for combos and such
One more CRUCIAL strategical advantage I believe this deck has, I will sum up in an example. I have one Lord of the Unreal and one Grand Architect on the battlefield. My opponent plays a titan, which one doesn't matter, but for practicality, I will say Sun Titan. When my turn comes around, I play Phantasmal Image, copying his Sun Titan. His Sun Titan is -2/-2 weaker than mine, due to the +1/+1 from both the Grand Architect, as well as the Lord of the Unreal, along with being hexproof. A MAJOR component to my decision of how to run this deck. And on a sidenote, can someone PLEASE remind me how to hyperlink these cards! I'm used to a different website, and the brackets aren't seeming to link the cards.
One more CRUCIAL strategical advantage I believe this deck has, I will sum up in an example. I have one [Lord of the Unreal] and one [Grand Architect] on the battlefield. My opponent plays a titan, which one doesn't matter, but for practicality, I will say [Sun Titan]. When my turn comes around, I play [Phantasmal Image], copying his Sun Titan. His Sun Titan is -2/-2 weaker than mine, due to the +1/+1 from both the Grand Architect, as well as the Lord of the Unreal, along with being hexproof. A MAJOR component to my decision of how to run this deck. And on a sidenote, can someone PLEASE remind me how to hyperlink these cards! I'm used to a different website, and the brackets aren't seeming to link the cards.
Your copied sun titan only gets +1/+1 from your lord of unreal.
The copying of phantasmal image is a replacement effect. It copies everything including the color of the card, so its white and with no GA boost.
Your copied sun titan only gets +1/+1 from your lord of unreal.
The copying of phantasmal image is a replacement effect. It copies everything including the color of the card, so its white and with no GA boost.
My bad. Grand Architects second ability allows you to pay one blue mana to turn a creature blue, and his third ability to play a phyrexian metamorph for two less mana. So I should have used phyrexian metamorph, not phantasmal image, as my example. that being said, if I were to copy a Sun Titan with my Phyrexian Metamorph, use the Grand Architects ability to turn it blue, then copied my blue Sun Titan with a Phantasmal Image, the Sun Titan would be blue, right?
My bad. Grand Architects second ability allows you to pay one blue mana to turn a creature blue, and his third ability to play a phyrexian metamorph for two less mana. So I should have used phyrexian metamorph, not phantasmal image, as my example. that being said, if I were to copy a Sun Titan with my Phyrexian Metamorph, use the Grand Architects ability to turn it blue, then copied my blue Sun Titan with a Phantasmal Image, the Sun Titan would be blue, right?
nope, it only copies whatever is on the card, no counters, no enchantments, no equipment, and no transient effects.
if ur image copied a metamorph copy of suntitan, it would still be white with the artifact type along with the illusion type and weakness.
Just think of it as this, you are not copying creatures, you are copying cards that say creature on them.
This includes things like Inkmoth nexus, where if ur opponent activated it during your turn, you can copy with phantasmal image.
nope, it only copies whatever is on the card, no counters, no enchantments, no equipment, and no transient effects.
if ur image copied a metamorph copy of suntitan, it would still be white with the artifact type along with the illusion type and weakness.
Just think of it as this, you are not copying creatures, you are copying cards that say creature on them.
I feel you on that. However, I believe it was still a valid point, as it prevents his titan from attacking, essentially killing himself. And if not that, then that's what doom blade and go for the throat were meant for
Opinions on Delver of Secrets? While not an Illusion, he is pretty aggressive, and seems excellent alongside Ponder.
Delver of Secrets is a nice card for it's one mana cost. However, it seems situational to decks that run a fair amount of instants and sorceries. It's like Garruk's Companion without the trample, and one less mana cost
The fish build that I have taken to many major tournaments including TCQ's and an SCG Open is still playable. The only changes are the Scalding tarns are out and preordain is as well. The strategy is still there.
Obviously Architect lives on (My least favorite one lol)
UB is dead. No Tarpits is death.
I have been busting my ass on a self mill version but its soo much less time consuming to test with hard copies of cards. I have already Preordered the cards in the build that I need and I have access to any others that I will want. So if I honestly get it to be viable I will push for it but for now its meh.
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Oona, Queen of the Fae UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU GRBorborygmos EnragedRG GBGRhys the ExiledGBG URG Intet, the Dreamer GRU
Sorry. Lol.
Looks like the primer has been updated from the last time I saw it. The white\black splash part wasn't there when I last read it. I'm terribly
Sorry for the mistake.
The fish build that I have taken to many major tournaments including TCQ's and an SCG Open is still playable. The only changes are the Scalding tarns are out and preordain is as well. The strategy is still there.
Obviously Architect lives on (My least favorite one lol)
UB is dead. No Tarpits is death.
I have been busting my ass on a self mill version but its soo much less time consuming to test with hard copies of cards. I have already Preordered the cards in the build that I need and I have access to any others that I will want. So if I honestly get it to be viable I will push for it but for now its meh.
Alright, mind PMing me your Fish build? Most of them got torn to shreds by rotation, which is why I eliminated it. I don't still have U/b up, do I?
Although you can't turn the Image/Metamorph permanently blue, you have still copied the 'It's still an Artifact' effect from the Metamorph. Therefore you can use the Architect's ability to turn it blue temporarily for 1 blue mana.
It's kind of a moot point though, because your titan still gets +1/+1 and Hexproof from the Lord of the Unreal, which means it can block and kill your opponents titan without dying, and is immune to removal. You don't really need the extra +1/+1 in this situation.
True true. I was just saying that once I copy it, I can kill the creature copied with doom blade / go for the throat, then play hideous visage with Grand Architects ability to turn creatures blue if need be. A very smexy littly combination if you ask me. And an extra one damage may or may not make the difference in a tight game. Never know. Still need to test it though...
Anyone else testing Skaab Ruinator? I really think it'll be a sick friend with Sun Titan. He's just a beast, and if they are hitting you with a ton of removal, I think meeting the drawback won't be an issue. I think Mastacore should be a must for the same reasons. Would make Forbidden Alchemy the draw spell of choice then as well.
Anyone else testing Skaab Ruinator? I really think it'll be a sick friend with Sun Titan. He's just a beast, and if they are hitting you with a ton of removal, I think meeting the drawback won't be an issue. I think Mastacore should be a must for the same reasons. Would make Forbidden Alchemy the draw spell of choice then as well.
I actually really like Skaab Ruinator. I'm planning on including atleast 2 of him in my U/W Titan-Architect build somehow. Since my build pretty much welcomes board wipers/removal, anyway. Might replace my Treasure Mages and bump up Wurmcoil Engine numbers to 3, removing one Steel Hellkite.
The only problem I see is if you don't have enough creatures in your deck to support him to begin with. But I guess if thats the case, you shouldn't run him at all, right?
Another bummer is choosing which creatures to remove. Best targets to remove would be those which Sun Titan can't recur. (Wurmcoil/other 6cmc stuff, Phyrexian metamorph, or any other cmc above 3) I guess I'll try to get my hands on atleast 2 of the Ruinators before I say any more, so I can test.
I really like Skaab though.
edit: Stitched Drake is also a possible addition/replacement. Weaker, but easier to cast.
Edit: TBH, I'll probably leave ghost quarter out. Depend if anyone at my card shop ends up playing the trample land.
A lot of people use Cockatrice, MWS, and Proxies to playtest right now
______________________________________
Well testing didn't go so well =/ there are cards that I definitely miss from my fish version. The most important being Aether Adept.
I got rolled over by werewolves because this version is too slow and GBW Pod wrecked me with Massacre Wurms... I lost to it 1-2 with both my losses being sealed by massacre wurms... UGH >_<
Changes I am considering-
2 less lands. I have WAY too much filtering to be playing 24 lands. I rarely ever missed a land drop and it killed me -_-* I can afford to miss a few.
Going to put Aether Adept in the 60 MD. I love that card and copying it with Phantasmal Image makes your opponent lose even more tempo. It needs to be back in.
Visions Of Beyond was dreadful and I honestly cant imagine Think Twice being any better. Of course visions could have just been playing bad because I got in some awkward positions
After some changes and editing some of the numbers that my creatures are in (Ruinator should be a 3 of not 4 of...) I will update a list later =D goodluck to all
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GRBorborygmos EnragedRG
GBGRhys the ExiledGBG
URG Intet, the Dreamer GRU
Alt art Gid orry? pics or it didn't happen ;p Aether Adept looks to show promise. But yeah that's how I felt about visions when I saw it in your build and maybe it was just awkward hand but it's hard to pull off if a grave doesn't have 20 cards in them fast enough.
Yeah I'm play testing with Cockatrice and my deck is getting rolled but I didn't want to make any ISD changes to it yet but the other deck has ISD cards lol
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
EDIT: I'm not even gonna talk about my FNM experience. I went 1-3, with only 2 wins total. Ugh. I FINALLY got my Sideboard done, still need wurmcoils, blargh. I did play a hilarious match against U/w Grand Architect Illusions. The deck was really good, guy went 4-0, don't have the list. He said he'd post it later.
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One that incorporates both the grand architect build and the suntitan recurrance as two separate wincons.
The deck just BEGS for a board-wiping effect, since our critters grow really big really fast with all the lord effects, and hexproof in play so I decided to make a hybrid of the two. The deck actually expects/wants a board-wiper, to some extent.
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Grand Architect
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Lord of the Unreal
3 Treasure Mage
3 Adaptive Automatron
3 Sun Titan
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Steel Hellkite
4 Negate
4 Ponder
3 Oblivion Ring
Lands: 21
4 Glacial Fortress
7 Plain
10 Island
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Timely Reinforcements
3 Day of Judgement
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Molten-Tail Masticore
1 Oblivion Ring
The deck starts out as a blue-agro deck, with bears, unreals and images. From there, two directions it can go are the archi or titan.
Without a board wiping effect or similar, the beats the tiny blue guys deal can culminate to a Grand Architect->Wurmcoil/Steel hellkite to finish.
With a board wiping effect, the plan goes into sun-titan, recurring Images from the yard copying the titan, giving me multiples out in play and eventually recurring everything from the graveyard quite easily.
I don't know what spells to run so I thought 3 O-rings and 4 negates were okay. I don't know what counterspells to use either, though. Comments on that would be welcomed.
I'm thinking of adding more lands, but so far 21 has been somewhat stable for me.
For the mirror (if mono-U), I would board out the titans and bring in an additional O-ring and two Molten-Tail Masticore to ping away at enemy lords.
Sorry to hear that.
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The match up section should be taken down completely. It's no longer accurate, especially since we don't know what decks are even competitive yet.
I haven't seen anyone use Venser recently. He's just not very popular.
Visions of beyond, that skaab dude, and self mill looks decent. I know someone is doing it, and at least one other person is interested. It's honestly not a bad idea. When it's finished it deserves a spot.
Divine reckoning is amazing.
That's all I can think of right now.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
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You can't really say that Fish went away since Fish just means you are playing a fast tempo deck with lots of permission
I like my deck because nothing changed other than I added a better counterspell with Dismiss and traded my Preordains for Think Twice
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
I am liking the idea of adding Blighted Agent. Infect as an alternate win-con seems sexy. I will have to test it, but it seems viable.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Grand Architect
3 Adaptive Automation
4 Phantasmal Image
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Sorcery
3 Distress
3 Ponder
2 Doom Blade
2 Go for the Throat
3 Mana Leak
Lands
3 Buried Ruin
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
11 Island
4 Swamp
1 Thopter Assembly
3 Treasure Mage
4 Mental Misstep
3 Hideous Visage
3 Spellskite
1 Steel Hellkite
I am VERY enamored with hideous visage, as it is a game clincher in many situations, and I believe I have constructed a fairly good sideboard. That being said, what can I do better with the ebb and flow of this deck?
Interesting, i see you choose not to use bears, can you explain why? and I was thinking that you could get rid of one swamp and replace it for another Mana Leak maybe?
That's a good question. To tell you the truth, I got caught up putting the deck together and forgot my favorite one cost creature, Phantasmal Bear. Having said that, I probably will add them back in there, but I'm not sure what to take out for them. Any suggestions? And another question I would like to pose. Which is generally more useful: paying two swamps to get rid of one card in my opponnents hand Dismiss , or a three cost, one swamp, in Mind Rot ? Dismiss gets rid of a card that may slow the flow of my deck, or increase the flow of theirs, but discarding two cards allows for less options for combos and such
Your copied sun titan only gets +1/+1 from your lord of unreal.
The copying of phantasmal image is a replacement effect. It copies everything including the color of the card, so its white and with no GA boost.
My bad. Grand Architects second ability allows you to pay one blue mana to turn a creature blue, and his third ability to play a phyrexian metamorph for two less mana. So I should have used phyrexian metamorph, not phantasmal image, as my example. that being said, if I were to copy a Sun Titan with my Phyrexian Metamorph, use the Grand Architects ability to turn it blue, then copied my blue Sun Titan with a Phantasmal Image, the Sun Titan would be blue, right?
nope, it only copies whatever is on the card, no counters, no enchantments, no equipment, and no transient effects.
if ur image copied a metamorph copy of suntitan, it would still be white with the artifact type along with the illusion type and weakness.
Just think of it as this, you are not copying creatures, you are copying cards that say creature on them.
This includes things like Inkmoth nexus, where if ur opponent activated it during your turn, you can copy with phantasmal image.
I feel you on that. However, I believe it was still a valid point, as it prevents his titan from attacking, essentially killing himself. And if not that, then that's what doom blade and go for the throat were meant for
Delver of Secrets is a nice card for it's one mana cost. However, it seems situational to decks that run a fair amount of instants and sorceries. It's like Garruk's Companion without the trample, and one less mana cost
The fish build that I have taken to many major tournaments including TCQ's and an SCG Open is still playable. The only changes are the Scalding tarns are out and preordain is as well. The strategy is still there.
Obviously Architect lives on (My least favorite one lol)
UB is dead. No Tarpits is death.
I have been busting my ass on a self mill version but its soo much less time consuming to test with hard copies of cards. I have already Preordered the cards in the build that I need and I have access to any others that I will want. So if I honestly get it to be viable I will push for it but for now its meh.
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GRBorborygmos EnragedRG
GBGRhys the ExiledGBG
URG Intet, the Dreamer GRU
Alright, mind PMing me your Fish build? Most of them got torn to shreds by rotation, which is why I eliminated it. I don't still have U/b up, do I?
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4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Phantasmal Dragon
Spells 21
4 Despise
4 Ponder
4 Mana Leak
2 Go for the Throat
1 Doom Blade
2 Forbidden Alchemy/Altar's Reap
4 Dismember
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Swamp
12 Island
I've been thinking about Entomber Exarch.
No SB yet but SB Options are pretty good.
Doom Blade
Geths verdict
Go for the Throat
Deathmark
Tribute to Hunger
Black Sun's zenith
Life's Finale
Surgical Extraction
Memoricide
Distress
Sorin's Vengeance
Hideous Visage
Gruesome Encore (especially with reanimator getting big)
Bloodgift Demon (kinda like phyrexian arena?)
And of course all the blue favorites. And torpor orb ratchet bomb etc.
True true. I was just saying that once I copy it, I can kill the creature copied with doom blade / go for the throat, then play hideous visage with Grand Architects ability to turn creatures blue if need be. A very smexy littly combination if you ask me. And an extra one damage may or may not make the difference in a tight game. Never know. Still need to test it though...
I actually really like Skaab Ruinator. I'm planning on including atleast 2 of him in my U/W Titan-Architect build somehow. Since my build pretty much welcomes board wipers/removal, anyway. Might replace my Treasure Mages and bump up Wurmcoil Engine numbers to 3, removing one Steel Hellkite.
The only problem I see is if you don't have enough creatures in your deck to support him to begin with. But I guess if thats the case, you shouldn't run him at all, right?
Another bummer is choosing which creatures to remove. Best targets to remove would be those which Sun Titan can't recur. (Wurmcoil/other 6cmc stuff, Phyrexian metamorph, or any other cmc above 3) I guess I'll try to get my hands on atleast 2 of the Ruinators before I say any more, so I can test.
I really like Skaab though.
edit: Stitched Drake is also a possible addition/replacement. Weaker, but easier to cast.