Dragons are solid in the SB to blank sword-equipped Birds of Paradise and other weenies. With only 3 Dismember and counters for removal, any flyer-heavy decks may give you trouble.
I haven't messed with Archivist, but it seems like it could be interesting, but I wonder how often you'd get to use it effectively. I guess it would be great against controllish decks if you could stick it.
I used Archivist since m12 in my mono blue illusions deck and it was always excellent. It shuts down control decks because an average control deck searches for answers and bombs. You use archivist after their draw step before their main phase and you will get one more card and leave them with only the opportunity to use an instant speed spell.
To be honest I am not afraid of spellcaster mage yet. It will be big but illusions dumps its cards fast enough that when you get 4+ cards a turn it doesnt matter if they recur dismember, doom blade, ponder, or mana leaks (which would only be viable on their turn if they snapcastered in response to archivist). You are forcing the snap caster to be used which is taking away from its potential even if you are putting more potential cards in their graveyard.
My theory is that if they discard it then they didn't cast it, which means if they snap castered it you forced them to play something for 2 more that they might have played twice.
I am just really fond of archivist and you should test it =) its pretty rough against aggro though =/
What I like about the Stalker is that he's a significant clock on the opponent as an unblockable that receives lord boosts.
I'm finding many aggro strategies to be more midrange and I've been in a few stalemate board situations (playing INN standard on Cockatrice) where Stalker keeps swinging
One problem I have found, though, with the Stalker strategy, is that it often leaves the lords unprotected and easy to remove. That could be why Architect + Treasure Mage is a better mono-blue Illusion deck.
In stalemate situations Dragon is a faster and way more threatening clock compared to stalker...
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I said it in the now gone thread that I've been having tremendous results in the casual games section on MTGO with the deck list below. It really helps work a multi pronged approach. If they get too lax taking care of illusions, pow! I keep them busy blowing up my bears with over costed removal, no problem I either Grand Architect or hard cast a Wurmcoil and start locking the board down. I actually won a game against A Puresteel/Hero deck earlier that the guy had me at 1 and he was at 18 and I stabilized and pulled out the win. Loving the build, going to see after the prerelease what I can do to improve it.
I said it in the now gone thread that I've been having tremendous results in the casual games section on MTGO with the deck list below. It really helps work a multi pronged approach. If they get too lax taking care of illusions, pow! I keep them busy blowing up my bears with over costed removal, no problem I either Grand Architect or hard cast a Wurmcoil and start locking the board down. I actually won a game against A Puresteel/Hero deck earlier that the guy had me at 1 and he was at 18 and I stabilized and pulled out the win. Loving the build, going to see after the prerelease what I can do to improve it.
This decklist is considered Pre-rotation and can't be discussed unless you want a warning issued by a mod you may want to edit your post for after roation...
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I disagree with this statement. Grand Architects ability allows one to power out the Metamorphs leading to some very explosive results. I think that 8 clones and 8 lords (Architect and Lord Of the Unreal) is plenty enough and isnt over doing it.
The problem I have with the deck is the stalker... He is a bit slow. Our other creatures will gain hexproof for the most part and you have the Grand Architect so you mine as well run Wurmcoil or Molten Tail Masticore to abuse Grand Architect more. If you dont want to go that route then Replace the Stalkers with Adaptive Automatons because they too can be powered out by architect.
Turn 1 Bear
Turn 2 Lord
Turn 3 Grand Architect (Use Architects Ability to tap all three)
Summon Wurmcoil
Turn 4 Beat their face
I see what your getting at with the metamorphs I guess I'm just not sold on them yet or maybe because mine are in another deck ;p
@pandafarmer as for the swords I do like that a lot but if I'm not mistaken won't it kill the illusions? and I apologize if I am wrong just want to clarify
This is my Illusions deck updated with Innistrad. I think it's pretty obvious what the game plan for this deck is. Drop as many illusions as you can and make them hexproof. The biggest vulnerability for this deck is wrath effects, but it's not as much of a blowout as you might think
I prefer straight up illusions to architect illusions purely for the consistency. This deck almost never gets a bad draw. In fact, I've had opponents accuse me of cheating because I always manage to topdeck an answer.
I used to run Preordain, and had planned to switch to Ponder, but I think I prefer Think Twice. It allows me to keep mana leak mana open without needing to worry about whether they're going to play a threat or not.
This is my Illusions deck updated with Innistrad. I think it's pretty obvious what the game plan for this deck is. Drop as many illusions as you can and make them hexproof. The biggest vulnerability for this deck is wrath effects, but it's not as much of a blowout as you might think
I prefer straight up illusions to architect illusions purely for the consistency. This deck almost never gets a bad draw. In fact, I've had opponents accuse me of cheating because I always manage to topdeck an answer.
I used to run Preordain, and had planned to switch to Ponder, but I think I prefer Think Twice. It allows me to keep mana leak mana open without needing to worry about whether they're going to play a threat or not.
feeling of dread-it fits our color scheme and can setup some win cons, flashback helps essentially reading 4 mana tap 4 target creatures potentially. but it may not be needed.
nevermore -pure sideboard card, would depend on the meta i imagine
stony silence -same deal as nevermore, but maybe more prevalent
dissipate -a powerful spell in its own right. i imagine if standard slows enough, and flashback/graveyard interaction becomes prevalent enough this may replace mana leak or show up in addition to it as one of our staples.
think twice -this may become a staple vs our typical ponder/gitaxian probe set, specially if we run dissipates (to threaten a dissipate counter with 3 mana open). strong card...strong enough? ponder sifts and gitaxian can ignore tempo loss and let you see opponents hand....and i dont want to run 12 draws.
The two cards that will be very hard to replace are Preordain and Spell Pierce. Think Twice is a very mana-intensive replacement for Preordain, and has none of the digging power. Forbidden Alchemy is expensive, and wants a black splash, Desperate Ravings is risky, and requires red. I'm not sure of any other cheap draw aside from Gitaxian Probe to replace Preordain with.
Spell Pierce is a major, major loss, at least in my opinion. It muscles through your first Lord, or an Image against control and stuffs all kinds of sweepers for just U. All I can think of to fill the spot is Negate, or just shoving more threats in and playing around sweeps.
My sideboard since I made this deck has been all over the place, but I feel a few slots are spoken for, or the concept is there. Flashfreeze is an easy sideboard choice if you're blue. Steel Sabotage is perhaps a meta call on my end, but a very solid way to ruin an artifact deck.
@Bullroc:
as for the swords I do like that a lot but if I'm not mistaken won't it kill the illusions? and I apologize if I am wrong just want to clarify
Swords kill illusions dead.
@shinylink:
Skaab Ruinator will work very well in mono-blue, specially when we have in front of us a deck that is killing our illusions and we can exile them.
If a deck can put enough creatures in your graveyard that Ruinator works out, you're probably losing. Illusions board position is sort of in a strange place; you need 2-3 creatures to be doing well. Most aggro wants a herd of guys to win, most control just plops a solitary bomb. These 2-3 creatures need to be relatively specific too, probably including a Lord. If a deck can kill your Lord easily, your backup plan needs to come in, be it GA or a splash, not a single creature (who also slightly hoses Sun Titan recursion).
I think divine reckoning has potential in UW lists. Oddly enough, the most annoying thing about sun titan is he doesn't recur to sun titan. This wouldn't worry me if zombie token decks weren't as good as they are. Even if token decks aren't an issue, the card is still great in this deck.
Silent departure looks promising in fish builds. The sorcery speed is annoying, but the flashback is relevant. Being able to force an opponent to recast a grave titan twice can win games. It's not the best card ever printed, but it seems to fit nicely in fish, so I'll be testing it a little more before passing judgment. I only vapor snag at instant speed on special occasions, like against tainted strike plus that souleater card.
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I feel like 4 Dissapate is over doing it since it forces you to leave 3 mana open on crucial turns.... Maybe a 2 of.
In your low CMC deck why not just run 4 Darkslick shores if you are that afraid of dismember damage
I run the catacombs because they will always come into play untapped as I'd never keep a hand without an island. Darkslick has potential to be a dead draw late game. To me, the 2 of catacomb is nothing but upside
Vapor snag is in the board, but honestly noncreature permanents are more scary to me.
I've been running 4 of stoic rebuttal with great success. Not many decks are built to deal with decks running 8 counters. Once I establish a superior board presense in this deck, I like playing draw-swing-go
I think divine reckoning has potential in UW lists. Oddly enough, the most annoying thing about sun titan is he doesn't recur to sun titan. This wouldn't worry me if zombie token decks weren't as good as they are. Even if token decks aren't an issue, the card is still great in this deck.
i think your potentially right with divine reckoning. Theres not much that can stand up to a sun titan after a board wipe not because of the sun titans 6/6 vigilance body but because every time he attacks you get a creature back. if you had more then one phantasmal image in the graveyard then you can quickly build absurd board presence after needing to wipe the board even with a sun titan in play.
but that begs the question...when will you have your sun titan out and still be losing? will in those situations a divine reckoning actually save you? worst case scenario i imagine you being beaten to death by a flyer and divine reckoning wont save you in time.
it has major potential tho. the flashback while expensive can be a real threat in a longer then normal game.
MD is the "get the creatures through" version. SB should give me counterspell enough for all the homebrews while Stony Silence gets me past Puresteel (thanks Yoshi).
As for mono blue Grand Architect versions I think 2 Wurmcoil Engine and 3 Mimic Vat seem like a good idea.
After having the deck for a bit, and after the majority of our good counter-spells are gone, I have decided that the best route to go would most likely be the U/B version. I am also in favor of the artifact version as well.
That is the U/B version. Pretty standard, I might say. Gives us access to some of the best removal in the game atm. And Sideboard options obviously include Black Sun's Zenith, Go for the Throat, Duress, etc.
Now, a good Sideboard or possibly mainboard option instead of Solemn would obviously be Phyrexian Metamorph. I choose Solemn instead of Metamorph only due to the ramp and card draw. The card draw is crucial, and he can become a 3/3 with Architect. And if you're low on your mana, and you don't have architect out on the field, the ramp is good for getting your Wurmcoil Engine or Phantasmal Dragon out on the field.
Jace's Archivist is used against control decks to generate draw more cards. It also wipes their searches and fills my hand. Revoke Existence against tempered steel or pod decks.
Levitation works quite well against most decks especially against those trying to ramp.
Once its down whatever I have on the field will hit for lethal or atleast set a short clock.
It takes the place of Phantasmal Dragon and is much better.
Also allows for swords on Lord of the Unreal and Adaptive Automaton.
Games go roughly like this:
Rush with bears, lords, images, drop Levitation for evasion; Win.
If not by then, Swords on lords or spirit, go control until I drop a Sun titan/Day of Judgment then win.
Might Need Torpor Orb in the SB instead of either Metamorph or Dissipate.
Just proxied a few divine reckoning and tested it against my casual vampire deck (which is a lot more powerful than type II vampire decks) and divine reckoning wins. Much better than day of judgment.
Yes the flashback is what makes it so amazing. Beyond able to pseudo wrath twice off a single card is quite nice. Also, not killing my own titan has proved relevant twice in the six rounds we played. There are going to be powerful decks out there, and it is kind of silly to think we automatically win after resolving a titan. Yes it is really powerful, but it isn't a coalition victory. Zombie token decks (which are really good from what I tried) and any deck able to match that power will have little terrible dealing with a resolved titan.
Mainly the flashback mattered more than the one creature. Test it out, the card is overwhelming sometimes.
Jace's Archivist is used against control decks to generate draw more cards. It also wipes their searches and fills my hand. Revoke Existence against tempered steel or pod decks.
Levitation works quite well against most decks especially against those trying to ramp.
Once its down whatever I have on the field will hit for lethal or atleast set a short clock.
It takes the place of Phantasmal Dragon and is much better.
Also allows for swords on Lord of the Unreal and Adaptive Automaton.
Games go roughly like this:
Rush with bears, lords, images, drop Levitation for evasion; Win.
If not by then, Swords on lords or spirit, go control until I drop a Sun titan/Day of Judgment then win.
Might Need Torpor Orb in the SB instead of either Metamorph or Dissipate.
How do you like using Dismember? I switched it out for Timely Reinforcements because every time I drew it I felt that Timely would of helped me more and paying 4 life can cost you a bit.
Just proxied a few divine reckoning and tested it against my casual vampire deck (which is a lot more powerful than type II vampire decks) and divine reckoning wins. Much better than day of judgment.
Yes the flashback is what makes it so amazing. Beyond able to pseudo wrath twice off a single card is quite nice. Also, not killing my own titan has proved relevant twice in the six rounds we played. There are going to be powerful decks out there, and it is kind of silly to think we automatically win after resolving a titan. Yes it is really powerful, but it isn't a coalition victory. Zombie token decks (which are really good from what I tried) and any deck able to match that power will have little terrible dealing with a resolved titan.
Mainly the flashback mattered more than the one creature. Test it out, the card is overwhelming sometimes.
Jace's Archivist is used against control decks to generate draw more cards. It also wipes their searches and fills my hand. Revoke Existence against tempered steel or pod decks.
Levitation works quite well against most decks especially against those trying to ramp.
Once its down whatever I have on the field will hit for lethal or atleast set a short clock.
It takes the place of Phantasmal Dragon and is much better.
Also allows for swords on Lord of the Unreal and Adaptive Automaton.
Games go roughly like this:
Rush with bears, lords, images, drop Levitation for evasion; Win.
If not by then, Swords on lords or spirit, go control until I drop a Sun titan/Day of Judgment then win.
Might Need Torpor Orb in the SB instead of either Metamorph or Dissipate.
This interests me A LOT. It looks very similar to my Fish build that I had pre-rotation except it has Sun Titan and my fish build didn't.
Honestly how often is Levitation too slow, or a dead draw? In opening hand its kinda awful =/ but I think it may be a possibility if mid-range ground based aggro picks up. if thats the case I would only run it sideboard.
I agree completely on Jace's Archivist. I love the card with a passion. I am looking to pick up 2 more foil copies soon before it goes up in price if it does
@ ThisIsNotMyName- I see that as more of a sideboard card... Against aggro yes we keep our big creature but against control they keep the only thing thats important to them, whether its gravetitan, or wurmcoil engine...
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How do you like using Dismember? I switched it out for Timely Reinforcements because every time I drew it I felt that Timely would of helped me more and paying 4 life can cost you a bit.
Well Dismember is on my axe list. Its not strong enough late game when I need it and im considering replacing it with oblivion ring or bounce. I might have Timely Reinforcements, however the problem is that it doesn't help kill my opponent sooner given that my deck is geared for a more aggressive style.
This interests me A LOT. It looks very similar to my Fish build that I had pre-rotation except it has Sun Titan and my fish build didn't.
Honestly how often is Levitation too slow, or a dead draw? In opening hand its kinda awful =/ but I think it may be a possibility if mid-range ground based aggro picks up. if thats the case I would only run it sideboard.
I agree completely on Jace's Archivist. I love the card with a passion. I am looking to pick up 2 more foil copies soon before it goes up in price if it does
I havn't had any issues with Levitation. Its never bad unless you are on the defensive or out of creatures.
Well Dismember is on my axe list. Its not strong enough late game when I need it and im considering replacing it with oblivion ring or bounce. I might have Timely Reinforcements, however the problem is that it doesn't help kill my opponent sooner given that my deck is geared for a more aggressive style.
Yeah I understand wanting more aggressive, I like the idea that with Timely Reinforcements you gain the like and 3 tokens. With the tokens you can use them to cump block or even make them hold swords and have Adaptive Automaton bump them =3
@yoshi You figure out how to break Ruinator yet? ;p and the more and more I hear about Jace's Archivist the more and more I wanna get some and play test them
Yeah I understand wanting more aggressive, I like the idea that with Timely Reinforcements you gain the like and 3 tokens. With the tokens you can use them to cump block or even make them hold swords and have Adaptive Automaton bump them =3
True, but i would have problems meeting the less life than the opponent requirement of Timely Reinforcements. It might be in my sideboard against whatever succeeds RDW/Goblins/aggro.
Sideboard might look life this:
Yeah I understand wanting more aggressive, I like the idea that with Timely Reinforcements you gain the like and 3 tokens. With the tokens you can use them to cump block or even make them hold swords and have Adaptive Automaton bump them =3
@yoshi You figure out how to break Ruinator yet? ;p and the more and more I hear about Jace's Archivist the more and more I wanna get some and play test them
Break him no. Use him in a effective way? Yes.
Ruinator needs creatures in the graveyard.
-For this I will use Forbidden Alchemy, Jace's Archivist, and the fact that illusions die pretty often
He is perfectly ok to discard to Forbidden Alchemy and JAce's Archivist.
-In my old standard build I had 4 Phantasmal Dragons in my fish build. It was hard to play them and activate Jace's Archivist. Though in this situation Jace's Archivist doesn't stop me from casting Skaab Ruinator and even lets me recur him with Sun Titan to ignore his draw back.
I haven't figured out the deck specifics because a lot of my play test pals prefer to have actual cards to run (Each of us tend to have a different top deck in standard so testing works out =D ). Right now I am looking at this.
The sideboard wont be figured out for a bit. I need to know what all stands at the top of standard first. I want to make this more of a graveyard recursion version of illusions =) It feels similar to my fish deck on paper, but only time will tell
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@ThisIsNotMyName- I see that as more of a sideboard card... Against aggro yes we keep our big creature but against control they keep the only thing thats important to them, whether its gravetitan, or wurmcoil engine...
If I used day of judgment, I would have lost more of those test rounds. Looking into the eyes of a vampire nocturnus isn't a good feeling. Seriously though, play a few rounds with each. It is a much better card in this deck. I'm a little surprised I have to defend it here.
Besides, control isn't known to be the most difficult match up.
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If I used day of judgment, I would have lost more of those test rounds. Looking into the eyes of a vampire nocturnus isn't a good feeling. Seriously though, play a few rounds with each. It is a much better card in this deck. I'm a little surprised I have to defend it here.
Besides, control isn't known to be the most difficult match up.
I feel like an idiot right now lol. Needless to say I have had a bit of alcohol tonight You are correct, control has always been my easiet matchup lol. I am going to have to test Divine Reckoning whenever I have the chance.
The question is though, is this card only good in certain situations. what if your best creature on field is worse than theirs? Would you prefer DOJ? If you want to protect a Sun Titan then why arent you winning anyways?
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I absolutely do not understand why so many people are opting to play Feeling of Dread. I would never want to see it as a top deck, it's a dead draw when you're trying to recover board position, and it has very narrow use. Gideon can tap their board, destroy things, and also win sometimes. Repel the Darkness cantrips and Frost Breath does the exact same net result but for W less total mana cost.
Now don't get me wrong; I'm not saying to replace the effect with Repel or Breath, but rather the effect isn't very useful.
On a side note, I edited my first post in here since I wasn't aware that we had rotated two weeks early, so if you want to gripe about something in my deck, feel free.
I used Archivist since m12 in my mono blue illusions deck and it was always excellent. It shuts down control decks because an average control deck searches for answers and bombs. You use archivist after their draw step before their main phase and you will get one more card and leave them with only the opportunity to use an instant speed spell.
To be honest I am not afraid of spellcaster mage yet. It will be big but illusions dumps its cards fast enough that when you get 4+ cards a turn it doesnt matter if they recur dismember, doom blade, ponder, or mana leaks (which would only be viable on their turn if they snapcastered in response to archivist). You are forcing the snap caster to be used which is taking away from its potential even if you are putting more potential cards in their graveyard.
My theory is that if they discard it then they didn't cast it, which means if they snap castered it you forced them to play something for 2 more that they might have played twice.
I am just really fond of archivist and you should test it =) its pretty rough against aggro though =/
In stalemate situations Dragon is a faster and way more threatening clock compared to stalker...
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GRBorborygmos EnragedRG
GBGRhys the ExiledGBG
URG Intet, the Dreamer GRU
3 Plains
4 Glacial Fortress
17 Island
Spells
3 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Pierce
3 Mana Leak
4 Ponder
Creatures
1 Phantasmal Dragon
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Grand Architect
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Thopter Assembly
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Sun Titan
1 Gideon Jura
2 Psychic Barrier
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Flashfreeze
2 Negate
2 Flashfreeze
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Frost Titan
2 Phantasmal Dragon
This decklist is considered Pre-rotation and can't be discussed unless you want a warning issued by a mod you may want to edit your post for after roation...
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GRBorborygmos EnragedRG
GBGRhys the ExiledGBG
URG Intet, the Dreamer GRU
I see what your getting at with the metamorphs I guess I'm just not sold on them yet or maybe because mine are in another deck ;p
@pandafarmer as for the swords I do like that a lot but if I'm not mistaken won't it kill the illusions? and I apologize if I am wrong just want to clarify
This is my Illusions deck updated with Innistrad. I think it's pretty obvious what the game plan for this deck is. Drop as many illusions as you can and make them hexproof. The biggest vulnerability for this deck is wrath effects, but it's not as much of a blowout as you might think
I prefer straight up illusions to architect illusions purely for the consistency. This deck almost never gets a bad draw. In fact, I've had opponents accuse me of cheating because I always manage to topdeck an answer.
I used to run Preordain, and had planned to switch to Ponder, but I think I prefer Think Twice. It allows me to keep mana leak mana open without needing to worry about whether they're going to play a threat or not.
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
I prefer Vapor Snag to Disperse.
I feel like 4 Dissapate is over doing it since it forces you to leave 3 mana open on crucial turns.... Maybe a 2 of.
In your low CMC deck why not just run 4 Darkslick shores if you are that afraid of dismember damage
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GRBorborygmos EnragedRG
GBGRhys the ExiledGBG
URG Intet, the Dreamer GRU
4x glacial forest
4x seachrome coast
12x island
4x plains
18 creatures
4x phantasmal bear
4x phantasmal image
4x lord of the unreal
3x adaptive automaton
3x sun titan
2x gideon jura
16 spells
3x day of judgement
4x mana leak
2x oblivion ring
4x ponder
3x gitaxian probe
3x mental misstep
3x timely reinforcements
3x torpor orb
3x flash freeze
3x revoke existance
things in INN to consider for this deck.
feeling of dread-it fits our color scheme and can setup some win cons, flashback helps essentially reading 4 mana tap 4 target creatures potentially. but it may not be needed.
nevermore -pure sideboard card, would depend on the meta i imagine
stony silence -same deal as nevermore, but maybe more prevalent
dissipate -a powerful spell in its own right. i imagine if standard slows enough, and flashback/graveyard interaction becomes prevalent enough this may replace mana leak or show up in addition to it as one of our staples.
silent departure -sure not that interesting but might be good tech against things like Skaab Ruinator
think twice -this may become a staple vs our typical ponder/gitaxian probe set, specially if we run dissipates (to threaten a dissipate counter with 3 mana open). strong card...strong enough? ponder sifts and gitaxian can ignore tempo loss and let you see opponents hand....and i dont want to run 12 draws.
these are my thoughts at least.
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Grand Architect
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Phantasmal Dragon
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
Instants
4 Mana Leak
3 Negate
2 Stoic Rebuttal
2 Vapor Snag
2 Think Twice
22 Island
4 Mental Misstep
1 Phantasmal Dragon
4 Flashfreeze
3 Steel Sabotage
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Mindslaver
1 Negate
The two cards that will be very hard to replace are Preordain and Spell Pierce. Think Twice is a very mana-intensive replacement for Preordain, and has none of the digging power. Forbidden Alchemy is expensive, and wants a black splash, Desperate Ravings is risky, and requires red. I'm not sure of any other cheap draw aside from Gitaxian Probe to replace Preordain with.
Spell Pierce is a major, major loss, at least in my opinion. It muscles through your first Lord, or an Image against control and stuffs all kinds of sweepers for just U. All I can think of to fill the spot is Negate, or just shoving more threats in and playing around sweeps.
My sideboard since I made this deck has been all over the place, but I feel a few slots are spoken for, or the concept is there. Flashfreeze is an easy sideboard choice if you're blue. Steel Sabotage is perhaps a meta call on my end, but a very solid way to ruin an artifact deck.
@Bullroc:
Swords kill illusions dead.
@shinylink:
If a deck can put enough creatures in your graveyard that Ruinator works out, you're probably losing. Illusions board position is sort of in a strange place; you need 2-3 creatures to be doing well. Most aggro wants a herd of guys to win, most control just plops a solitary bomb. These 2-3 creatures need to be relatively specific too, probably including a Lord. If a deck can kill your Lord easily, your backup plan needs to come in, be it GA or a splash, not a single creature (who also slightly hoses Sun Titan recursion).
@aedanwolfe
Nevermore and Stony Silence are both very solid hate cards; good calls. Dissipate and Think Twice seem solid. Silent Departure and Feeling of Dread are both greatly outshined by removal that you're already using, like o-ring and Day.
Silent departure looks promising in fish builds. The sorcery speed is annoying, but the flashback is relevant. Being able to force an opponent to recast a grave titan twice can win games. It's not the best card ever printed, but it seems to fit nicely in fish, so I'll be testing it a little more before passing judgment. I only vapor snag at instant speed on special occasions, like against tainted strike plus that souleater card.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
I run the catacombs because they will always come into play untapped as I'd never keep a hand without an island. Darkslick has potential to be a dead draw late game. To me, the 2 of catacomb is nothing but upside
Vapor snag is in the board, but honestly noncreature permanents are more scary to me.
I've been running 4 of stoic rebuttal with great success. Not many decks are built to deal with decks running 8 counters. Once I establish a superior board presense in this deck, I like playing draw-swing-go
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
i think your potentially right with divine reckoning. Theres not much that can stand up to a sun titan after a board wipe not because of the sun titans 6/6 vigilance body but because every time he attacks you get a creature back. if you had more then one phantasmal image in the graveyard then you can quickly build absurd board presence after needing to wipe the board even with a sun titan in play.
but that begs the question...when will you have your sun titan out and still be losing? will in those situations a divine reckoning actually save you? worst case scenario i imagine you being beaten to death by a flyer and divine reckoning wont save you in time.
it has major potential tho. the flashback while expensive can be a real threat in a longer then normal game.
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Grand Architect
3 Adaptive Automaton
2 Sun Titan
16 Spells
4 Ponder
4 Vapor Snag
3 Disperse
3 Feeling of Dread
2 Gideon Jura
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Glacial Fortress
10 Island
5 Plains
4 Mana Leak
4 Flashfreeze
4 Negate
3 Stony Silence
MD is the "get the creatures through" version. SB should give me counterspell enough for all the homebrews while Stony Silence gets me past Puresteel (thanks Yoshi).
As for mono blue Grand Architect versions I think 2 Wurmcoil Engine and 3 Mimic Vat seem like a good idea.
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Phantasmal Dragon
3 Adaptive Automaton
4 Mana Leak
4 Doom Blade
4 Ponder
4 Despise
3 Dismember
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
6 Swamp
10 Island
That is the U/B version. Pretty standard, I might say. Gives us access to some of the best removal in the game atm. And Sideboard options obviously include Black Sun's Zenith, Go for the Throat, Duress, etc.
And now for the mono-blue Artifact version:
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Grand Architect
3 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Mana Leak
4 Ponder
4 Vapor Snag
3 Dismember
24 Island
Now, a good Sideboard or possibly mainboard option instead of Solemn would obviously be Phyrexian Metamorph. I choose Solemn instead of Metamorph only due to the ramp and card draw. The card draw is crucial, and he can become a 3/3 with Architect. And if you're low on your mana, and you don't have architect out on the field, the ramp is good for getting your Wurmcoil Engine or Phantasmal Dragon out on the field.
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Phantasmal Bear
3 Adaptive Automaton
2 Sun Titan
Spells: 19
3 Levitation
4 Mana Leak
1 Stoic Rebuttal
2 Negate
2 Dismember
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Day of Judgment
Artifacts: 3
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
Land: 22
10 Island
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Moorland Haunt
4 Plains
3 Jace's Archivist
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Dissipate
3 Revoke Existence
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Surgical Extraction
Swords carriers are tokens generated by Moorland Haunt and (sometimes flying) Lord of the Unreal or Adaptive Automaton.
Jace's Archivist is used against control decks to generate draw more cards. It also wipes their searches and fills my hand.
Revoke Existence against tempered steel or pod decks.
Levitation works quite well against most decks especially against those trying to ramp.
Once its down whatever I have on the field will hit for lethal or atleast set a short clock.
It takes the place of Phantasmal Dragon and is much better.
Also allows for swords on Lord of the Unreal and Adaptive Automaton.
Im still on the fence for Think Twice and replacing Adaptive Automaton with Grand Architect.
GA boosts the Lord of the Unreal as well and drops swords for free, but Adaptive Automaton works with Sun Titan as well, and benefits from lord of the Unreal.
Im also running 2 Day of Judgment rather than 3 since Levitation lets me fly over blockers.
Games go roughly like this:
Rush with bears, lords, images, drop Levitation for evasion; Win.
If not by then, Swords on lords or spirit, go control until I drop a Sun titan/Day of Judgment then win.
Might Need Torpor Orb in the SB instead of either Metamorph or Dissipate.
Yes the flashback is what makes it so amazing. Beyond able to pseudo wrath twice off a single card is quite nice. Also, not killing my own titan has proved relevant twice in the six rounds we played. There are going to be powerful decks out there, and it is kind of silly to think we automatically win after resolving a titan. Yes it is really powerful, but it isn't a coalition victory. Zombie token decks (which are really good from what I tried) and any deck able to match that power will have little terrible dealing with a resolved titan.
Mainly the flashback mattered more than the one creature. Test it out, the card is overwhelming sometimes.
I haven't tried out silent departure yet.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
How do you like using Dismember? I switched it out for Timely Reinforcements because every time I drew it I felt that Timely would of helped me more and paying 4 life can cost you a bit.
Divine Reckoning will be a great choice especially if your on the attack and you have Sun Titan
This interests me A LOT. It looks very similar to my Fish build that I had pre-rotation except it has Sun Titan and my fish build didn't.
Honestly how often is Levitation too slow, or a dead draw? In opening hand its kinda awful =/ but I think it may be a possibility if mid-range ground based aggro picks up. if thats the case I would only run it sideboard.
I agree completely on Jace's Archivist. I love the card with a passion. I am looking to pick up 2 more foil copies soon before it goes up in price if it does
_______________________________________________________
@ ThisIsNotMyName- I see that as more of a sideboard card... Against aggro yes we keep our big creature but against control they keep the only thing thats important to them, whether its gravetitan, or wurmcoil engine...
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GRBorborygmos EnragedRG
GBGRhys the ExiledGBG
URG Intet, the Dreamer GRU
Well Dismember is on my axe list. Its not strong enough late game when I need it and im considering replacing it with oblivion ring or bounce. I might have Timely Reinforcements, however the problem is that it doesn't help kill my opponent sooner given that my deck is geared for a more aggressive style.
I havn't had any issues with Levitation. Its never bad unless you are on the defensive or out of creatures.
Yeah I understand wanting more aggressive, I like the idea that with Timely Reinforcements you gain the like and 3 tokens. With the tokens you can use them to cump block or even make them hold swords and have Adaptive Automaton bump them =3
@yoshi You figure out how to break Ruinator yet? ;p and the more and more I hear about Jace's Archivist the more and more I wanna get some and play test them
True, but i would have problems meeting the less life than the opponent requirement of Timely Reinforcements. It might be in my sideboard against whatever succeeds RDW/Goblins/aggro.
Sideboard might look life this:
2 Timely Reinforcements
3 Revoke Existence
3 Jace's Archivist
2 Torpor Orb
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Dissipate
Break him no. Use him in a effective way? Yes.
Ruinator needs creatures in the graveyard.
-For this I will use Forbidden Alchemy, Jace's Archivist, and the fact that illusions die pretty often
He is perfectly ok to discard to Forbidden Alchemy and JAce's Archivist.
-In my old standard build I had 4 Phantasmal Dragons in my fish build. It was hard to play them and activate Jace's Archivist. Though in this situation Jace's Archivist doesn't stop me from casting Skaab Ruinator and even lets me recur him with Sun Titan to ignore his draw back.
I haven't figured out the deck specifics because a lot of my play test pals prefer to have actual cards to run (Each of us tend to have a different top deck in standard so testing works out =D ). Right now I am looking at this.
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Lord Of the Unreal
1 Phantasmal Dragon
3 Skaab Ruinator
4 Jace's Archivist
3 Sun Titan
4 Mana Leak
4 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Dissapate
3 Feeling Of Dread
//Planeswalkers - 2
2 Gideon Jura
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Plains
13 Island
The sideboard wont be figured out for a bit. I need to know what all stands at the top of standard first. I want to make this more of a graveyard recursion version of illusions =) It feels similar to my fish deck on paper, but only time will tell
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GRBorborygmos EnragedRG
GBGRhys the ExiledGBG
URG Intet, the Dreamer GRU
If I used day of judgment, I would have lost more of those test rounds. Looking into the eyes of a vampire nocturnus isn't a good feeling. Seriously though, play a few rounds with each. It is a much better card in this deck. I'm a little surprised I have to defend it here.
Besides, control isn't known to be the most difficult match up.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
I feel like an idiot right now lol. Needless to say I have had a bit of alcohol tonight You are correct, control has always been my easiet matchup lol. I am going to have to test Divine Reckoning whenever I have the chance.
The question is though, is this card only good in certain situations. what if your best creature on field is worse than theirs? Would you prefer DOJ? If you want to protect a Sun Titan then why arent you winning anyways?
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GRBorborygmos EnragedRG
GBGRhys the ExiledGBG
URG Intet, the Dreamer GRU
Now don't get me wrong; I'm not saying to replace the effect with Repel or Breath, but rather the effect isn't very useful.
On a side note, I edited my first post in here since I wasn't aware that we had rotated two weeks early, so if you want to gripe about something in my deck, feel free.