[Developing] Heartless Pod

  • #1
    It's hard to get much quality input on this deck in the dedicated Heartless and Pod threads, so I'm starting a thread solely for the discussion of decks that include both Heartless and Pod. Typically, these decks are Green/Black, but any color variation is welcome here (Green/Black/Blue is the main other variant floating around).

    The idea is simple: Birthing Pod is a strong toolbox deck, but it's inconsistent. Competitive Birthing Pod decks are still supposed to be "good" without their Pod, but I think we should focus on a deck that's "great" without the Pod. For that reason, Pod is pushed to a secondary game plan. Heartless is the complimentary game plan. With both, you can Pod into bigger creatures sooner. With only one, you're still generating some significant advantage by getting big critters out early.

    The problem I'm having with this build is finding a balance between building a toolbox deck (lots of singleton critters with ETB and GY effects) and building a good, straightforward Rock aggro deck.

    Thrun, the Last Troll and Glissa, the Traitor are the problems on that front. Both are great critters. Thrun wins games against control decks and burn decks, and Glissa has wonderful synergy with some of our favorite critters (Solemn, Wurmcoil, and in this deck, Perilous Myr and Birthing Pod).

    So: the deck's only problem (besides being very hard to beat if you're playing against it) is that you don't want to Pod "out of" Glissa or Thrun. And when a Heartless is on the board, we can't Pod out of anything smaller than a CC of 3. (But, that's part of this deck's game plan: podding out of bigger creatures earlier to get to the game-enders sooner.)

    I'm looking for suggestions for useful toolbox critters and possible 2cc, 3cc 4cc, and 5cc inclusions.

    We need to avoid creatures like Viridian Emissary, who can't be podded out of with a Heartless Summoning on the board. Perilous Myr, IMO, is an exception in that he is useful as both an attacker and blocker and has an infinite combo with Glissa when tokens/weenies are on the board.

    I also think we need to look at our first 3/4 turns of the game and figure out the best game plan. This deck doesn't have any 1-drops (except Dismember), and on turn 2, we're trying to play Heartless Summoning (though, Go for the Throat/Doomblade are our alternate turn 2 plays). Our strongest possible turn 3 play is a 5 drop like Acidic Slime. Turn 4, we can Pod into Wurmcoil from Acidic.

    Those early turns really need to be analyzed to see if we can come up with better plays.

    Below is the deck list I'm currently running. The notable singleton creatures are Massacre Wurm, Moldgraf Monstrosity, Sheoldred, Whispering One, and Platinum Emperion. Beyond that, we have our usual All-Stars in Solemn, Acidic, and Wurmcoil.

    I'm including Emperion because I figure the point of this deck is to make it to creatures that other Pod/ramp decks can't.

    PlayRadioPlay's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    GB Combo
    4 Perilous Myr
    3 Glissa, the Traitor
    2 Solemn Simulacrum
    3 Thrun, the Last Troll
    2 Acidic Slime
    2 Bloodgift Demon
    3 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Massacre Wurm
    1 Moldgraf Monstrosity
    2 Sheoldred, Whispering One
    1 Platinum Emperion

    2 Dismember
    4 Go for the Throat/Doomblade
    4 Heartless Summoning
    4 Birthing Pod

    8 Forest
    10 Swamp
    4 Woodland Cemetery

    :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Standard: Pretty much all of them. :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:
  • #2
    I shifted my birthing pod list to accomodate Heartless Summoning and here's how it looks right now:

    Fraggle RockMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Perilous Myr
    3 Viridian Emissary
    4 Glissa, the Traitor
    3 Solemn Simulacrum
    3 Entomber Exarch
    3 Phyrexian Metamorph
    4 Acidic Slime
    1 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Reaper from the Abyss
    1 Massacre Wurm
    1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
    1 Garruk's Horde

    4 Birthing Pod
    4 Heartless Summoning

    4 Woodland Cemetery
    10 Forest
    9 Swamp



    SideboardMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Garruk, the Veil Cursed
    3 Wall of Tanglecord
    3 Sylvok Replica
    3 Thrun, the Last Troll
    2 Tree of Redemption



    Note that my build is geared to break the Birthing Pod mirror as it is pretty prevalent in my area. I normally start my Pod chains at 4CC, the 2CC and 3CC creatures are there to stop aggro bleeding and get upgraded when they've outlived their usefulness. Don't get too attached to Glissa or Thrun, that's what multiple copies are there for.

    Elaboration on card choices absent from your deck:

    Viridian Emissary -> Works well with both Summoning and Pod, helps stem the tide versus aggro, is also a nice early beater.

    Entomber Exarch -> Simply fabulous. It can make your opponent discard whatever would have ailed you, including their next land drop. It can also fish for a dead creature.

    Phyrexian Metamorph -> The best clone ever, bar none.

    Reaper from the Abyss -> This is the card that breaks the mirror. Just be careful as the ability is mandatory, so it might end up punking some of your own creatures.

    Garruk's Horde -> Because I have no non-creature spells save the Summoning and the Pod. It gets pretty ridiculous with Summoning out. Also, immune to Dismember with or without Summoning.

    The sideboard Garruks are for creating dead cards in your opponent's SB, side out the Pods g2 and watch the artifact destruction go to waste. Sylvok Replica is decent against TS and nuts if you can get the Glissa/Summoning/Replica engine going.

    Stuff in your deck I don't have -> Bloodgift Demon, which suffers from Glissa-itis a.k.a. I don't want to pod out of this creature, but even more so than Glissa herself because it's at 5CC. I'd much rather destroy something on my opponent's board, a land at the very least, than draw into a random card for 1 life at 5CC.

    Moldgraf Monstrosity -> Haven't tried it yet, but I will. I'm a little skeptical though as Garruk's Horde just seems better on paper.

    Platinum Emperion -> Interesting choice, but I think Tree of Redemption is better here. I wouldn't blame you for using the Emperion though, that thing is just nasty against pretty much any kind of aggro. Note that it does disallow you from paying Phyrexian Mana though.
    Shahrazad

    Yo dawg, I heard you like MTG so we put a game into your game so you can play MTG while you play MTG
  • #3
    Well it would be rude not to:

    "Heartless Pod by HxHx"Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Viridian Emissary
    3 Perilous Myr

    3 Phyrexian Rager
    2 Glissa, the Traitor
    1 Sylvok Replica

    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    2 Solemn Simulacrum
    1 Entomber Exarch
    1 Skinrender
    1 Thrun, the Last Troll

    3 Acidic Slime

    1 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Massacre Wurm
    1 Reaper from the Abyss

    1 Sheoldred, Whispering One

    3 Go for the Throat
    3 Heartless Summoning
    4 Birthing Pod

    4 Woodland Cemetery
    9 Swamp
    9 Forest
    2 Buried Ruin



    I disagree on Emissary with the OP. We should run 4 because the times you don't see summoning you just don't have enough action early doors. Even with summoning, he's a ramp spell into more actions per turn and thins your deck/mana fixes.
  • #4
    Here's the list I am taking to States.

    Sirapropos's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands (23)
    4x Wooland Cemetery
    9x Forest
    10x Swamp

    Artifact Creatures (9)
    3x Perilous Myr
    2x Phyrexian Metamorph
    2x Solemn Simulacrum
    1x Sylvok Replica
    1x Wurmcoil Engine

    Creatures (17)
    3x Acidic Slime
    1x Tree of Redemption
    1x Garruk's Horde
    1x Entomber Exarch
    1x Massacre Wurm
    1x Morkrut Banshee
    3x Phyrexian Rager
    1x Rune-Scarred Demon
    1x Skinrender
    1x Thrun, the Last Troll
    3x Viridian Emissary

    Artifacts (4)
    4x Birthing Pod

    Enchantments (3)
    3x Heartless Summoning

    Instants (4)
    3x Doom Blade
    1x Apostle’s Blessing



    The two main differences are Apostle's Blessing and Sever the Bloodline.

    Blessing is there to act as a counterspell if needed or to punch in damage for the win. It protects both your creatures and Pod. It also allows one of your guys to block a Wurmcoil and not give them life.

    Sever the Bloodline is my answer to Tokens (Wurm, Spirit, Solder etc) and also Solar Flare's Sun Titan/PI/PI plays. Since the Phatasmal Images are also Sun Titan's they get exiled as well.
    Last edited by Sirapropos: 10/16/2011 10:45:44 AM
  • #5
    Has anyone contemplated adding Bitterheart witch and curse of death's hold? In the right match-ups this could be even better than a turn 3 acidic slime (mainly if the lands you are worried about are inkmoth nexus' or moorland harbor). Monored's only target other than lands is the shrine, and any sword decks with snapcaster or invisible stalker are in trouble unless they o-ring the curse. It also kind of evens out a heartless summoning. Granted, without the pod out you might not be able to get rid of the Bitterheart witch.
  • #6
    SC States Report

    Decklist a couple of posts earlier.

    G/B Heartless Pod
    5-3 (30th place out of 167)

    Round 1: Solar Flare (0-2) 0-1
    Game 1 I was on the draw and had to mulligan to 6 because of a 1 land and ended up keeping a 1 land hand anyway with a bunch of 2 drops. Didn’t see 2nd land until turn 4 and by then it was too late to recover. Died to a turn 6 Sun Titan and a copied Sun Titan.

    Game 2 had a better draw and it went back and forth for about 20+ turns but I ran out of steam and he was able to get off about 4 Forbidden Alchemies. Liked this matchup though and it would prove to be good most of the day as long as I got land in my opening grip.

    Round 2: U/G Splinterfright (2-0) 1-1
    Games 1 and 2 went pretty easy. In the second I Surgically Extracted his Primeval’s and Jace’s.

    Round 3: Solar Flare (2-0) 2-1
    Game 1 my opening of turn 2 Heartless, turn 3 Slime was too much for my opponent who was missing land drops. Got a turn 4 Wurmcoil Engine off the Slime and he scooped.

    Game 2 opened again with turn 2 Heartless and turn 3 Slime. Copied Slime on Turn 4 and then beat him down with a few guys.

    Round 4: AliCats Esper Control (2-0) 3-1
    Game 1 got off to a fast start and a turn 4 Thrun. His answer was Timely Reinforcements for just dudes because I was at lower life because of a Pod on turn 3. They blocked Thrun for a few turns and he used Snapcaster to FB the Timely. I podded out a Massacre Wurm and killed his team and swung with Thrun. I got him down to 4 and then cast Heartless with two Perilous Myr in hand to win game 1.

    Game 2 turn 4 Thrun again. He got off another Timely Reinforcements to get some Blockers but I was able to attack by hardcasting the Massacre Wurm with a Hearltess in play negating the life from the Timely. He tried to Snap the Timely back next turn but I was able to Surgically Extract it in response. He had a bunch of cards that weren’t going to save him in hand. I Metamorphed my Massacre Wurm to have him lose 4 life from the Snapcaster and then swung for lethal.

    Round 5: Solar Flare (2-1) 4-1
    I don’t remember much from this but I know they were good games where early Slimes helped me win my two games.

    Round 6: Solar Flare (1-2) 4-2
    I lost the first game again because of having to Mulligan to 6 and keep a 1 lander. Only ever saw 2 Forests the whole game and had to discard a Pod and something else so my opponent didn’t know what I was playing.

    I won Game 2 because I got two land in my opening hand and Heartlessed out several guys and kept him off of Day of Judgement Mana.

    Game three lost to Elesh and a Grave Titan. I killed them each a couple of times but he had two Unburial Rights.

    Round 7: R/W Tempered Steel (1-2) 4-3
    Game 1 I kept the 1 land opening hand and used my “One Time’ to get a swamp on the draw because I had the optimal hand of turn 2 Heartless and turn 3 Slime and podded into a Massacre Wurm to kill his team and take the game.

    Game 2 I kept a suboptimal hand of 5 land, a Wurmcoil and a Skinrender. He exploded out and I drew nothing but land and didn’t have answers.

    Game 3 I had a good opening hand with some guys. He had to Mulligan down to 6 and kept a big hand of land and Inkmoth’s. After getting in for a poison he plays Curse of Stalked Prey and plays back to back Inkmoth’s and proceeded to put counters on them. I was able to Slime two and Pod in a Reaper from the Abyss which flys but it was Dispatched and he flew in for the win by Poison. Could have gone either way. Brutalizer Exarch could have won me this game.

    Round 8: RUG Control (2-1) 5-3
    He gets game one because I have to Mulligan another 1 lander into a 1 lander, He kills me with an Invisible Stalker and my Copied Wurmcoils Tokens.

    Game 2 Turn 3 Slime and friends kill his only green source with Thrun and a Mayor in hand.

    Game 3 he Mulligan’s his 1 lander into a 6 card no lander into a 5 card no lander and then concedes. I had a good grip so it was likely my game anyway.

    Conclusion
    I know what I need to work on to get the deck in better shape. Adding 1 land up to 24 is the first start. I also think I will try and work a second Entomber Exarch in because he was a house when I got to play him. My Apostle's Blessings were just bad as was Garruk's Horde. I think I am going to top out at 6 in the pod chain.

    I know how to beat Solar Flare/Esper Control if nothing else. Avoided Aggro decks all day except for 7th round.
    Last edited by Sirapropos: 10/16/2011 1:53:17 PM
  • #7
    We need to avoid creatures like Viridian Emissary, who can't be podded out of with a Heartless Summoning on the board. Perilous Myr, IMO, is an exception in that he is useful as both an attacker and blocker and has an infinite combo with Glissa when tokens/weenies are on the board.
    I disagree with your assessment of the emissary here. Creatures really need to be viewed from three different angles in this deck:
    1. How good is it when NEITHER pod or HS is in play?
    2. Do you get value from it when/before you pod it away?
    3. How good is it with HS in play?

    So looked at from that perspective, here's how Viridian Emissary stacks up:
    1. A 2/1 beater for 1G vs control, an excellent roadblock/ramp vs aggro
    2. Yes
    3. A Rampant Growth for G (i.e. a good deal)

    So it's at its worst against control, with no pod or summoning.

    Hrmm, this might be a godo template for comparing other creatures for inclusion as well.
    magicmerls ~440 card powered cube, 180 card Winston stack, guild precons and girly pics

    let me state something - the things I tell you will not be wrong. It is you who will be wrong if you try arguing with me.
  • #8
    @sirapro

    Ok... I have to ask, sry, not rude, texting everything just doesn't allow tone of voice:

    Questions:
    1) Rune-Scarred Demon - How is this better than Sheoldred in anyway?
    2) Brutalizer Exarch - Why?
    3) Sylvok Replica - Why?
    4) Massacre Wurm mainboard but Reaper of Abyss sideboard?
    5) Hollowhenge Scavenger - Why none between main or sideboard?
    6) Skinrender - Why only 1 between main and sideboard?

    Comments:
    1) I like the value from Rager.
    2) Thought about a Glissa?
    3) Gravetitans are great 6cmc creatures too.
    4) I agree on entomber exarch, definitely needs more then 1.
    5) Need more lands, I personally like 25 or so.

    I really like the directions and ideas from pekpek and handwritten and a delicate blend between the two feels like its where the deck probably wants to be with a few pieces from OP, like the Hollowhenge etc.
  • #9
    Quote from Demonbunny
    @sirapro

    Ok... I have to ask, sry, not rude, texting everything just doesn't allow tone of voice:

    Questions:
    1) Rune-Scarred Demon - How is this better than Sheoldred in anyway?
    2) Brutalizer Exarch - Why?
    3) Sylvok Replica - Why?
    4) Massacre Wurm mainboard but Reaper of Abyss sideboard?
    5) Hollowhenge Scavenger - Why none between main or sideboard?
    6) Skinrender - Why only 1 between main and sideboard?



    I have no problem with criticism as I mainly ended up playing this deck because I saw that it was Top 16 in Nashville and it was one of the decks I had the cards for to build in time for States. I changed a few things to make it my own and was pretty happy with the results.

    1. It Flys and lets you get silver bullets from the SB and main deck. It helps block Inkmoths. That being said I a probably going to replace it with Reaper.

    2. I actually swapped this out at the last minute because I found someone with a Tree of Redemtion however I wish I had left it in. The first ability is ok but the second ability let's you get rid of O-Rings, Inkmoth Nexus, and Planeswalkers. It I had left it in I would have been able to win my 7th round matchup since I could have podded a Slime away and taken care of the last Inkmoth. It's definitely going back in.

    3. The Original list I was working off of had 1 main and 3 SB and I may up the SB count because it was very good for me all day. Inkmoth Nexus, Swords, O-Rings, Tempered Steel killer or simple pod target into a 4 drop.

    4. Massacre Wurm helps versus aggro and also Hexproof guys like Geist and Stalker. After Slime he was my Co-MVP of the day. The Reaper is mainly there for other Pod Decks. Versus Control it's weaker. It does fly though so I may try and work it in place of the Rune-Scarred since I am considering removing 7 drops all together as I didn't want to Pod out of my 6 drops all day.

    5. Without a Pod or Heartless Hollowhenge is just a big guy for 5cc that is vulnerable to Doom Blade. I have Peace Striders for assured life gain but since I didn't play Mono-Red all day I didn't need them.

    6. This was again an omage to the List I was working off of. Skinrender was useful for me everytime I drew it but I would probably keep it at one since Morkrut Banshee also fills this roll. Morkrut also allows me the ability to kill Titans etc by playing her an then Podding her into a Massacre Wurm.

    I'm going to work on an updated list today and hopefully have it up Tomorrow. Land count will go to 24. 25 may be too much because I had several dead draws late of land that if they had been any sort of creature I could have had a chance to win.
    Last edited by Sirapropos: 10/16/2011 11:16:17 AM
  • #10
    First things, cross post of this:

    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7447466&postcount=1725

    Since I managed to complete the build on paper last minute I decided to play it at FNM...4x 2-0s is good enough for 1st place. I've played enough aggro in testing and previously with BUG Pod the week before (all 2-0 sweeps, did drop a match 1-2 against Snake Blade) so I'm happy enough a B/G core in pod deals with aggro more than sufficiently.

    Quote from Sirapropos
    I have no problem with criticism as I mainly ended up playing this deck because I saw that it was Top 16 in Nashville and it was one of the decks I had the cards for to build in time for States. I changed a few things to make it my own and was pretty happy with the results.

    1. It Flys and lets you get silver bullets from the SB and main deck. It helps block Inkmoths. That being said I a probably going to replace it with Reaper.

    2. I actually swapped this out at the last minute because I found someone with a Tree of Redemtion however I wish I had left it in. The first ability is ok but the second ability let's you get rid of O-Rings, Inkmoth Nexus, and Planeswalkers. It I had left it in I would have been able to win my 7th round matchup since I could have podded a Slime away and taken care of the last Inkmoth. It's definitely going back in.

    3. The Orginal list I was working off of had 1 main and 3 SB and I may up the SB count because it was very good for me all day. Inkmoth Nexus, Swords, O-Rings, Tempered Steel killer or simple pod target into a 4 drop.

    4. Massacre Wurm helps versus aggro and also Hexproof guys like Geist and Stalker. After Slime he was my Co-MVP of the day. The Reaper is mainly there for other Pod Decks. Versus Control it's weaker. It does fly though so I may try and work it in place of the Rune-Scarred since I am considering removing 7 drops all together as I didn't want to Pod out of my 6 drops all day.

    5. Without a Pod or Heartless Hollowhenge is just a big guy for 5cc that is vulnerable to Doom Blade. I have Peace Striders for assured life gain but since I didn't play Mono-Red all day I didn't need them.

    6. This was again an omage to the List I was working off of. Skinrender was useful for me everytime I drew it but I would probably keep it at one since Morkrut Banshee also fills this roll.

    I'm going to work on an updated list today and hopefully have it up Tomorrow. Land count will go to 24. 25 may be too much because I had several dead draws late of land that if they had been any sort of creature I could have had a chance to win.


    1. I'd definitely play Reaper...most of the things you'll tutor you can anyway with the pod or Brutalizer one down the chain...he's also more flexible and you never feel bad podding him up.

    2. Depends what type of build you're playing...Exarch is very good control, but I enjoyed Reaper or either Wurm for having an effect AND the ability to close games...Exarch is a slightly improved Acidic Slime. That said, I do definitely rate the Exarch.

    3. Replica is very powerful...more board in against artifacts because obviously he's a recurring Naturalize with Summoning and Glissa. The singleton maindeck for me is because he's rarely dead as well as being a toolbox option...even RDW he does duty against Shrine.

    If given the chance though, he does an excellent job of turning Heartless Summoning off later in the game when you don't need the ramp so much.

    4. I run both main so I can't comment other than how good both cards are. Reaper is very powerful as death triggers are not difficult to get. He's a much, much improved version of Phyrexian Obliterator when you treat him as such.

    5. Peace Strider is superior...recurs with Glissa/Buried Ruin (After a match where you pop both ruins just to bring back myr under summoning to kill a summoning sick Necrotic Ooze you learn to appreciate the option!!). Lifegain does help against red, but not much elsewhere...I'd consider Striders and Wurmcoil enough...otherwise protect your life against red so you're less likely to need the gain.

    6. 2 between main and board, although there's times I'd want more! Just finding the space really.


    I've found 24 lands for G/B to feel nice...Buried Ruins is good utility and I wouldn't mind a 3rd.

    I like Banshee less in Heartless Pod than regular pod. Can't quite put my finger on why, might just be a case of preferring more Acidic Slime since he's good on turn 3 under summoning.

    I like Sheoldred because she is a savage beating. I prefer her in main to start, she does get sided out for some matches, particularly against red (lower the curve type of deal). If I'm chaining into her, Wurmcoil is the correct option.

    Opens up the following play if unmolested:

    Pod Wurm into Sheoldred, gain 2 wurms.
    They sac a creature.
    Return Wurmcoil. Pod it away for a 7 drop, finding nothing. Make 2 more wurms...
  • #11
    I will echo Sirapropos and HandwrittenHero on most everything here.

    My only comment is that after some fairly extensive playtesting, I am less in love with the Morbid trigger cards like Morkut Banshee and Hollowhenge Scavenger. I consistently have trouble getting Morbid to go off when I need, as sometimes I'm running in Heartless mode over Pod mode. Once people know you have morbid triggers, they'll often go out of their way to play around them. Reaper From the Abyss is at least a solid 5/5 or 6/6 flier, and his Morbid trigger is every turn, rather than just on ETB. Morkut and Hollowhenge both also compete for the fairly heavily populated 5 slot with creatures that have potential 2-for-1 or better plays like Acidic Slime and card advantage engines like Bloodgift Demon.

    As far as land goes, 23 has been just about perfect for me. The ramp offered by Viridian Emissaries and Solemns and the effective acceleration of Heartless and Pod mean that I've almost never had land issues. In fact, I'll sometimes even keep a one land hand, if I have a Woodland Cemetary and at least one Emissary in hand, and it usually works out. More often I end up mid to late game drawing land and wishing it was more gas. I've been tempted to go to 22 on occasion, but thus far have resisted. My usual set up is 9/9/4 and a singleton plains. That plains lets me run Unburial Rites and flash it back, and I run a basic rather than any of the duals because between the Emissaries and Solemns I have plenty of opportunity to fetch basics out.
  • #12
    The morbid triggering constantly on Reaper is a very good point...in days gone by that amount of power in the air was great and we're already cheating him out...the fact he has an ability is a massive bonus. He can end up walling opponents pretty well due to their fear of death in an attack.

    Bloodgift Demon is on my list of things to try, it's just finding the space. I think he plays better with Summoning than pod, but not the worst sin.

    Also on my to try list though and for discussion:
    Garruk Relentless

    Been thinking this last week he's not getting enough respect. I think he suits the meta and all of his abilities are relevant to the rock playstyle we end up adopting. He'd probably be a board choice and Heartless Summoning would side out...thoughts?
  • #13
    Great discussion going on in here. This is exactly what I was hoping for.

    I wasn't able to run my Heartless Pod at FNM, as I forgot two of the cards at home (D'oh). I did do a bit more testing (using proxies), and I think I will run 2 Viridian Emissary. I'll take Perilous Myr down to 3, and keep Solemn Simulacrum at 2.

    I'm doing that because I did have a bit of trouble against control. Having extra mana against mana leaks would have been extremely helpful.
    :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Standard: Pretty much all of them. :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:
  • #14
    Thanks for the answers.

    Thoughts:
    Brutalizer Exarch.
    I see and understand his value and its probably down to a bit of play style, whether he goes in or not.

    Hollowhenge Scavenger.
    Has been broken for me. Just the types of play sequences. I didn't mean as a replacement to Peace Strider, but instead as a great followup.

    Peace Striker - Hollowhenge - Wurmcoil/Massacre Wurm, u've generally broken the back of most aggro decks.

    Massacre Wurm
    I wasn't thinking Massacre should come out, I was just surprised that he was in, yet the Reaper was left sidelined. I feel 1 Wurmcoil, 1 Massacre and 1 Reaper is probably perfect for the 6cmc with Sheoldred at 7.

    Skinrender
    Mainboard, I agree, 1 skinrender, 1 morkrut is solid enough. I was just wondering if the deck wouldn't want a 2nd skinrender in side for against aggro?

    Sylvok Replica
    I'm going to have to play them to get an understanding of the card choice. On paper it doesn't feel right, but then, many things that look right on paper are totally wrong on the tabletop.

    Tree of Redemption
    I have to say, personally, I'm not a fan of this card at all. But can see value out of the sideboard.

    And something that popped up on my radar.
    What do u guys think about the pharoah from M12? 5cmc 5/4 who when in the graveyard gets to kill a creature if they deal dmg to u and goes back to top of library to search for another 6cmc dude? A pretty interesting option?
  • #15
    Quote from Demonbunny
    Thanks for the answers.

    Thoughts:
    Brutalizer Exarch.
    I see and understand his value and its probably down to a bit of play style, whether he goes in or not.

    Hollowhenge Scavenger.
    Has been broken for me. Just the types of play sequences. I didn't mean as a replacement to Peace Strider, but instead as a great followup.

    Peace Striker - Hollowhenge - Wurmcoil/Massacre Wurm, u've generally broken the back of most aggro decks.

    Massacre Wurm
    I wasn't thinking Massacre should come out, I was just surprised that he was in, yet the Reaper was left sidelined. I feel 1 Wurmcoil, 1 Massacre and 1 Reaper is probably perfect for the 6cmc with Sheoldred at 7.

    Skinrender
    Mainboard, I agree, 1 skinrender, 1 morkrut is solid enough. I was just wondering if the deck wouldn't want a 2nd skinrender in side for against aggro?

    Sylvok Replica
    I'm going to have to play them to get an understanding of the card choice. On paper it doesn't feel right, but then, many things that look right on paper are totally wrong on the tabletop.

    Tree of Redemption
    I have to say, personally, I'm not a fan of this card at all. But can see value out of the sideboard.

    And something that popped up on my radar.
    What do u guys think about the pharoah from M12? 5cmc 5/4 who when in the graveyard gets to kill a creature if they deal dmg to u and goes back to top of library to search for another 6cmc dude? A pretty interesting option?


    I don't think you need the full chain with Hollowhenger to break aggro. It hurts other match ups a bit by being more heavily positioned against red so it's a meta-call. Just remember he's pretty underwhelming and tough to trigger without pod.

    Sylvok Replica is definitely a card you'll learn to love once you play it and try out it's more intricate plays. Nothing bad about a bit of flexibility. He's relevant most match ups as well and really good in some you wouldn't expect if you draw him as the singleton game 1. Turning off an O-ring to get a second CiP trigger is pretty filthy.

    Tree is a good card, I prefer Peace Strider for being in more heavily on Glissa...more synergy to the deck. If I wasn't big on the Glissa plan I'd probably play tree in board, he is good if not a little slow and vulnerable to Hero of Oxid Ridge (something Heartless Summonings also has the undesired effect of creating).

    I don't mind Pharoah as a card, however he's a bit of a trap in my experience. Try and avoid cards that need a specific engine to turn them on, e.g. Pharoah needing pod, or Myr Superion needing Summoning. They have to be incredible when they do go off to be worth the headaches they cause otherwise. Glissa is a little bit guilty of this for not playing well with Summoning or Pod in and of herself, however her synergies do work with both to create engines.
  • #16
    Quote from HandwrittenHero
    The morbid triggering constantly on Reaper is a very good point...in days gone by that amount of power in the air was great and we're already cheating him out...the fact he has an ability is a massive bonus. He can end up walling opponents pretty well due to their fear of death in an attack.

    Bloodgift Demon is on my list of things to try, it's just finding the space. I think he plays better with Summoning than pod, but not the worst sin.

    Also on my to try list though and for discussion:
    Garruk Relentless

    Been thinking this last week he's not getting enough respect. I think he suits the meta and all of his abilities are relevant to the rock playstyle we end up adopting. He'd probably be a board choice and Heartless Summoning would side out...thoughts?


    I tried a Garruk mainboard for a while and almost never found him relevant. Flipping him was hard to do reliably, and with a heartless out, his token generation abilities are less than stellar (1/1 non-deathtouch wolves, or an instant morbid trigger). As a 2 or 3 of substitute for a pod or heartless post-board, I could sort see him being more useful.
  • #17
    I think Garruk would be good as a sideboard card against control; sub out some of the Heartless, and still keep a strong, powerful engine.
    Modern
    :symu::symw::symr: UWR Superfriends
  • #18
    so i added a skirsdag. to the list and dropped something ( cant remember at the moment )

    playing against a few decks using Octgn, it was a reliable way to get a quick win, using beast within on virdian emissary resulting in a 5/5 flyer won the game. as a one of doesn't seem an aweful 2 drop.

    it may be taboo but I also added a couple unburial rites for later in the game for entomber exarch, returning another creature to my hand.

    i do fall flat to aggro if i don't manage to pull a bird. which can probably be cured with a little sideboarding.
    Standard
    RWGNaya AggroGWR
    UBZombiesUB
    BBBFNM Mono-Black ControlBBB
  • #19
    I'm having trouble dealing with Tempered Steel's fliers... or just fliers in general.

    For reference, here's my list:

    G/B Heartless PodMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Birthing Pod
    3 Heartless Summoning

    3 Doom Blade

    4 Viridian Emissary
    3 Perilous Myr
    1 Spellskite

    2 Glissa, the Traitor
    3 Phyrexian Rager
    1 Sylvok Replica

    2 Solemn Simulacrum
    1 Entomber Exarch
    1 Skinrender
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph

    2 Acidic Slime
    1 Bloodgift Demon

    1 Massacre Wurm
    1 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Reaper of the Abyss

    1 Sheoldred, Whispering One

    10 Swamp
    10 Forest
    4 Woodland Cemetery



    I've had difficulty with aggro, when I finally start rolling my life total is much too low. I think I need to pack more lifegain packages in the board by playing the Peace Strider or Tree of Redemption.

    Doublepost merged and warned.
    -Sene
    Last edited by Sene: 10/17/2011 3:10:14 PM
    Modern
    :symu::symw::symr: UWR Superfriends
  • #20
    Here is what I'm currently playing with the changes I would make after states.

    Sirapropos's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands (24)
    4x Woodland Cemetery
    10x Forest
    10x Swamp

    Creatures (24)
    3x Perilous Myr
    4x Viridian Emissary

    3x Phyrexian Rager
    1x Sylvok Replica

    2x Entomber Exarch
    1x Phyrexian Metamorph
    1x Skinrender
    1x Solemn Simulacrum

    3x Acidic Slime
    1x Morkrut Banshee

    1x Brutalizer Exarch
    1x Massacre Wurm
    1x Reaper from the Abyss
    1x Wurmcoil Engine

    Artifacts (4)
    4x Birthing Pod

    Enchantments (3)
    3x Heartless Summoning

    Instants (5)
    3x Doom Blade
    2x Surgical Extraction



    Biggest difference is no 7 drops. I know Sheoldred is a house with Wurmcoil but I've had too many of mine Doom Bladed or Ancient Grudged before I could pod them away. I'd much rather have a Black Creature or an ETB dude.

    Main deck Surgical Extraction. I boarded this card in everytime and don't think it would be a dead draw in Game 1.

    It's great against Snapcaster Mage which is a lot of decks. It has uses against almost every deck in Standard right now including Red because of cards like Brimstone Volley which is good against us because we kill our own guys. We have so many 187 effects for creatures, enchantments, artifacts and Lands (Inkmoth, Wolf Run) that it is bound to get something and at least let us Probe their hand and library.

    I'll be playing it at FNM this week to see how it plays.
    Last edited by Sirapropos: 10/17/2011 3:56:08 PM
  • #21
    Quote from lordgufi
    so i added a skirsdag. to the list and dropped something ( cant remember at the moment )

    playing against a few decks using Octgn, it was a reliable way to get a quick win, using beast within on virdian emissary resulting in a 5/5 flyer won the game. as a one of doesn't seem an aweful 2 drop.

    it may be taboo but I also added a couple unburial rites for later in the game for entomber exarch, returning another creature to my hand.

    i do fall flat to aggro if i don't manage to pull a bird. which can probably be cured with a little sideboarding.


    I've thought about Skirsdag, but he's not been valuable in goldfishing overall. Unlike most of our creatures, he needs to stick on the board to be good, which means he's not a good Pod target and breaks your chain. I can see how he'd help in a long grindy match, but my experience has been that between a few Unburials, Entomber Exarch, and getting up to a Sheoldread, it's pretty rare for me to need that sort of gas late game. I may try him out for real though, just to see how he works when Iv'e got some more active opposition.

    As far as aggro in general I've found a Massacre Wurm is generally a great answer. Sweeps most of those little critters up and does damage at the same time. I also like a pair of Sylvok Lifestaff in the board. A lot of times you're either going to have chump blockers (1/1 or 2/2 deathtouchers like Slime and Wurm tokens with Heartless out), or will be actively podding things up to better value. Either way, throw the life staff on there and that's an extra 3 life for 1 mana. And if they waste artifact hate on that, it's one less piece that can be hitting your pods. It also helps cancel out the penalty from Heartless, for things you actually want to be turning sideways.
  • #22
    Sirapropos, it would be much easier to look at your deck list and evaluate your card choices if the creatures were ordered by CMC.

    One thing I've been thinking about Heartless Pod with is that we can afford to run more 4-5-6 drops than a more traditional pod list, since a portion of the time we will be able to hardcast them as 2-3-4 drops.

    So what does a Heartless Pod curve look like? 0/6/5/6/5/4/1?

    E.g.
    magicmerl's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Viridian Emissary
    2 Perilous Myr

    3 Phyrexian Rager
    1 Glissa
    1 Sylviok Replica

    2 Solemn Simulacrum
    2 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Entomber Exarch
    1 Skinrender

    2 Acidic Slime
    1 Morkut Banshee
    1 Precursor Golem
    1 Bloodgift Demon

    2 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Massacre Wurm
    1 Reaper from the Abyss

    1 Sheoldred, whispering one

    Questions/comments about the curve/choices?
    magicmerls ~440 card powered cube, 180 card Winston stack, guild precons and girly pics

    let me state something - the things I tell you will not be wrong. It is you who will be wrong if you try arguing with me.
  • #23
    Quote from magicmerl
    Sirapropos, it would be much easier to look at your deck list and evaluate your card choices if the creatures were ordered by CMC.

    One thing I've been thinking about Heartless Pod with is that we can afford to run more 4-5-6 drops than a more traditional pod list, since a portion of the time we will be able to hardcast them as 2-3-4 drops.

    So what does a Heartless Pod curve look like? 0/6/5/6/5/4/1?

    E.g.
    itsgian's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Viridian Emissary
    2 Perilous Myr

    2 Phyrexian Rager
    2 Glissa
    1 Sylviok Replica

    2 Solemn Simulacrum
    2 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Entomber Exarch
    1 Skinrender

    2 Acidic Slime
    1 Morkut Banshee
    1 Precursor Golem
    1 Bloodgift Demon

    2 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Massacre Wurm
    1 Reaper from the Abyss

    1 Sheoldred, whispering one


    Questions/comments about the curve/choices?


    I always feel wanting in the 4 and 5 drop slot. Those CMC's contain some of the best utility and toolbox cards in the deck, but sometimes it's hard for me to get there safely because sometimes I just fold to aggro. The inherent lack of fliers makes it difficult for me to interact with Tempered Steel decks and cards like Chandra's Phoenix and Delver of Secrets because I can't even BLOCK them. -_-
    Modern
    :symu::symw::symr: UWR Superfriends
  • #24
    I also prefer skinrender over banshee because of the permanant -3/-3 giving me turns to deal with it vs having to deal with it now ( unless of course you pod into it to mini dismember )
    Standard
    RWGNaya AggroGWR
    UBZombiesUB
    BBBFNM Mono-Black ControlBBB
  • #25
    Quote from itsgian
    I always feel wanting in the 4 and 5 drop slot. Those CMC's contain some of the best utility and toolbox cards in the deck, but sometimes it's hard for me to get there safely because sometimes I just fold to aggro. The inherent lack of fliers makes it difficult for me to interact with Tempered Steel decks and cards like Chandra's Phoenix and Delver of Secrets because I can't even BLOCK them. -_-

    Well, that is a list that is biased vs control in G1. You would need to bring in a bunch of Perilous Myr, Peace Striders and Massacre Wurms from the SB.
    magicmerls ~440 card powered cube, 180 card Winston stack, guild precons and girly pics

    let me state something - the things I tell you will not be wrong. It is you who will be wrong if you try arguing with me.
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