Interesting list, did Unburial Rites really test that well for you, enough to splash W for?
Yes. Without it the deck doesn't have enough threats. Also note that my GY tossing is relatively uncontrolled, which means that postmortem lunge often ends up there with not much to do. I guess I could increase lunge and snapcaster though.
@Dzejes... I think Fright is one of the keys to the deck though. I can totally see cutting Wurm... but Fright has trample which can make all the difference... and helps with your milling. Double whammy. Think Twice is something I'm considering, esp after playing many games against BU and seeing them basically draw cards for 3-4 turns. Maybe not as a 4-of, but it might make all the difference late game. Mulch is still so freaking good to me.
I'd love to see your newest list Dzejes! Splashing W would give us Intangible Virtue as well... then we're looking at a completely different deck all together though.
I'd love to see your newest list Dzejes! Splashing W would give us Intangible Virtue as well... then we're looking at a completely different deck all together though.
Virtue doesn't help kagebreakers at all, the tokens enter the battlefield tapped.
Yes, but gives them a boost, and if you're playing Spider Spawning it helps them from the get go. Basically if you're swinging with 5 wolves, you go from 10+ life swing to 15+. Could make a pretty solid difference against another token deck.
We want to play, not leave mana leak open we are not solar flare jeez dude
It's still a completely valid arguement. Mana Leak is a fanastic spell that needs to be at the very least considered. Much like if we choose to run W, we need to seriously look at Oblivion Ring's place in the 75.
He is good tech against control as well actually. Some Illusions builds run him as a 2-of and trigger his ability after they draw on their turn. It's a nutty idea, but may work.
I'm at 3 color now and haven't had much issue with my mana base thanks to Mulch... I might just do Pilgrims for that W source and then not mess with the land at all.
After some testing in the causal room, the biggest problem i was having was keeping dudes on the board long enough to win or milling my lunges. However, lots of turn 6-7 wins also resulted from unanswered Cagebreakers or Lunged ones. I'm going to go up to 4 and cut a boneyard worm and eventually cut all the worms for other creatures. Phantasmal Image is the current canidate.
Spellskite is amazing here as always. He protects your win conditions in a pinch and serves as walls 5-8 til the game can be resolved as over.
trying to have an non-graveyard-dependant back up strategies
so there is the Wurm coil Engine
and Methamorph
that are great in both strategies
but need more value cards that doesnt need graveyard
Mindshrieker should be in there. I ran it and loved it. A good mana dump and there are plenty of things in the deck that makes it huge. If you dump a wurmcoil or cagebreakers, you just spent 2 mana to pump it by 5+
I've tested the heck out of this deck and the best solution I've found is phantasmal bear.
With the UG lists, I don't mind the lack of decent one-drops, as long as you're going for ramp. Birds and mana-elves I think are fine. My list is very similar to Arcadic's, but with fewer creatures and more utilities like Beast Within. I absolutely hate Armored Skaab. Not because he doesn't make sense, he's very synergistic, I get that. It's that ramping into him isn't really a great play unless you have a Splinterfright (or the like) in hand. Milling a bunch of stuff into the yard before you have your business creatures stings when your Postmortems go down the drain!
Meanwhile, other decks with ramp get to play Blade Splicer on turn two, followed by a Hero of Bladehold on turn four. It can get out of hand fast, and I'm sitting there with a 2/2 Boneyard Wurm. Go me.
I think the five-drops in the deck are great: Acidic Slimes and Cagebreakers, and with enough ramp they're coming out quick and causing trouble. I think the deck needs better options at the three-drop. Now, having said that, I'm testing some Sylvok Replicas (sexy, I know), but only because I have an unhealthy hatred of Oblivion Ring. Another option, and kinda sneaky, could be Phyrexian Metamorph for the three-drop, but it's only coming out on turn three if the opponent has played something nasty.
trying to have an non-graveyard-dependant back up strategies
so there is the Wurm coil Engine
and Methamorph
that are great in both strategies
but need more value cards that doesnt need graveyard
just a quick thing, if i were to build this, i would probably run Primeval Titan as opposed to Wurmcoil Engine, simply it just fits more in this deck, with trying to get creatures in the graveyard and the titan mills down the deck by pulling lands, and it provides that alternative strategy. also Bonehoard is a good suggestion too.
One last thing is you might want to consider Steel Sabotage simply because the Nihil Spellbomb destroys the deck, and the 1 CMC is really nice.
I personally have never built anything like this so this is just what I think, if you play that and it works well for you then play it. i'm just giving info on what i think.
As far as removal goes, let's not forget the versatility of Beast Within.
If you run white, there is also Grand Abolisher to slow down your opponent's plays. No more countering spells or creatures on your turn. And anything Oblivion Ringed gets put back on the field during your turn.
Why is the deck tag mediocre deck? The deck is great it just needs to work on creature protection and maybe add in some removal...
The deck doesn't need removal or protection it needs more enablers and more dredge targets for now it remains a fun albeit not very competitive archetype.
Here's my 75. Im not running postmortem lunge, because nine times out of ten, i either milled it into the yard or drew it with my opening hand, and it was essentially a dead card. swiftfoot boots and unburial rites has done a lot better swinging a hasty cagebreaker for the win. viridian emissary really helps the deck's early game, as its either ramp or pressure. sun titan is an mvp in the deck, he has so many targets, and wins almost every game he resolves
courtisans! compatriots! lend me your ears, we slayed this demagogue, dragged it to its knees. we cut all the sycophants, deafened their call, we gave back the willing to better us all. we will not go quiet, we will not be restrained, we will not be slaves to an impotent regime. mark this in remembrance, the turning of tides. our nascent republic, born of his demise.
I see a lot of green/blue decks here, but what about green/white?
It's slower, because you're not milling yourself, but I think you retain more control of how the game plays out. Personally I don't like randomly tossing cards into my grave (unless they have flashback), so I'd rather employ creatures that are designed to die.
In theory (because this deck will be tested this week), the early game is all about controlling the board with cards like the Mayor and Viper. Doomed Traveler is our chump blocker. Obviously we don't care if any of our cards die, because it's fuel for the Cagebreakers.
My thought is that with creatures like the ones I have here, my opponent is going to want to kill them. Grand Abolisher, Mayor of Avabruck, Daybreak Ranger, these are all cards that can be dangerous if allowed to live for too many turns.
Here's my 75. Im not running postmortem lunge, because nine times out of ten, i either milled it into the yard or drew it with my opening hand, and it was essentially a dead card. swiftfoot boots and unburial rites has done a lot better swinging a hasty cagebreaker for the win. viridian emissary really helps the deck's early game, as its either ramp or pressure. sun titan is an mvp in the deck, he has so many targets, and wins almost every game he resolves
I forgot about Swiftfoot Boots! That might be a better protection card than Ranger's Guile in my deck. Hmmm...
If you really want some sort of protection for your dudes try Apostle's Blessing I had 2 in my mainboard for a while and they were quite good in a number of matchups.
Edit. Also the person suggesting white it defeats the purpose of the self mill strategy by not playing blue your list is a completely different deck to what this thread is trying to achieve.
This is the current decklist for cagebreaker that im currently experimenting with. Although this might be similar to the Mimic + Parallel lives deck but with an abuse on the Cagebreaker.
As far as my testing goes, the key card that would give you Land advantage would be the Viridian emissary. As a sacrificial tool its either not to block or to take damage, in w/c would provide an advantage in the long run.
Im still experimenting on the list above to tweak it further, but upon reading through the thread, it may seem that the best way to go about having a Cagebreaker in play is to get it from the yard by Postmortem.
I've already thought about the Looter, I'm going to tweak the deck again later to add in the looters and check whether they are a viable piece or not.
Fog is there to provide early protection in the game. Divine reckoning is a alternative if in case that your opponent is already massing their army to give out one final blow.
The selection of the ambush viper provides a instant defense on early game as well. the Phantasmal bear is also there to provide additional damage/blocker and a yard filler.
Mimic Vat is here to provide additional back up if in case that the cagebreaker is killed right after it has been played. and once you are set-up with parallel lives, you can do a 1 turn kill. (in a perfect world).
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Yes. Without it the deck doesn't have enough threats. Also note that my GY tossing is relatively uncontrolled, which means that postmortem lunge often ends up there with not much to do. I guess I could increase lunge and snapcaster though.
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
Virtue doesn't help kagebreakers at all, the tokens enter the battlefield tapped.
We want to play, not leave mana leak open we are not solar flare jeez dude
It's still a completely valid arguement. Mana Leak is a fanastic spell that needs to be at the very least considered. Much like if we choose to run W, we need to seriously look at Oblivion Ring's place in the 75.
I'm at 3 color now and haven't had much issue with my mana base thanks to Mulch... I might just do Pilgrims for that W source and then not mess with the land at all.
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Woodland Cemetary
9 Forest
6 Island
Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Boneyard Worm
4 Spellskite
4 Splinterfright
4 Armored Skaab
3 Kessig Cagebreakers
2 Acidic Slime
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Mulch
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Postmortum Lunge
3 Forbidden Alchemy
After some testing in the causal room, the biggest problem i was having was keeping dudes on the board long enough to win or milling my lunges. However, lots of turn 6-7 wins also resulted from unanswered Cagebreakers or Lunged ones. I'm going to go up to 4 and cut a boneyard worm and eventually cut all the worms for other creatures. Phantasmal Image is the current canidate.
Spellskite is amazing here as always. He protects your win conditions in a pinch and serves as walls 5-8 til the game can be resolved as over.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
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Curse PremiumWRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Plain
1 Swamp
10 Forest
5 Island
Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Viridian Emissary
2 Merfolk Looter
4 Armored Skaab
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Acidic Slime
3 Kessig Cagebreakers
2 Skaab Ruinator
2 Wurm Coil Engine
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
Spells
4 Mulch
2 Unburial Rite
2 Postmortum Lunge
2 Beast Within
This is my list
still working on sideboard
trying to have an non-graveyard-dependant back up strategies
so there is the Wurm coil Engine
and Methamorph
that are great in both strategies
but need more value cards that doesnt need graveyard
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
I've tested the heck out of this deck and the best solution I've found is phantasmal bear.
With the UG lists, I don't mind the lack of decent one-drops, as long as you're going for ramp. Birds and mana-elves I think are fine. My list is very similar to Arcadic's, but with fewer creatures and more utilities like Beast Within. I absolutely hate Armored Skaab. Not because he doesn't make sense, he's very synergistic, I get that. It's that ramping into him isn't really a great play unless you have a Splinterfright (or the like) in hand. Milling a bunch of stuff into the yard before you have your business creatures stings when your Postmortems go down the drain!
Meanwhile, other decks with ramp get to play Blade Splicer on turn two, followed by a Hero of Bladehold on turn four. It can get out of hand fast, and I'm sitting there with a 2/2 Boneyard Wurm. Go me.
I think the five-drops in the deck are great: Acidic Slimes and Cagebreakers, and with enough ramp they're coming out quick and causing trouble. I think the deck needs better options at the three-drop. Now, having said that, I'm testing some Sylvok Replicas (sexy, I know), but only because I have an unhealthy hatred of Oblivion Ring. Another option, and kinda sneaky, could be Phyrexian Metamorph for the three-drop, but it's only coming out on turn three if the opponent has played something nasty.
just a quick thing, if i were to build this, i would probably run Primeval Titan as opposed to Wurmcoil Engine, simply it just fits more in this deck, with trying to get creatures in the graveyard and the titan mills down the deck by pulling lands, and it provides that alternative strategy. also Bonehoard is a good suggestion too.
One last thing is you might want to consider Steel Sabotage simply because the Nihil Spellbomb destroys the deck, and the 1 CMC is really nice.
I personally have never built anything like this so this is just what I think, if you play that and it works well for you then play it. i'm just giving info on what i think.
GW Aggro
EDH
R Krenko, Mob BossR <- goblins
U Arcanis, the OmnipotentU <- mono U artifacts
GWB Ghave, Guru of Spores GWB <- token stupidness
GRU Maelstrom WandererGRU <- WIP
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Curse PremiumFor creature protection, what about Ranger's Guile? Also Autumn's Veil if you play against blue or black.
As far as removal goes, let's not forget the versatility of Beast Within.
If you run white, there is also Grand Abolisher to slow down your opponent's plays. No more countering spells or creatures on your turn. And anything Oblivion Ringed gets put back on the field during your turn.
The deck doesn't need removal or protection it needs more enablers and more dredge targets for now it remains a fun albeit not very competitive archetype.
4x Armored Skaab
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Kessig Cagebreakers
1x Skaab Ruinator
2x Solemn Simulacrum
3x Splinterfright
1x Sun Titan
4x Viridian Emissary
Spells
2x Day of Judgment
4x Forbidden Alchemy
3x Mulch
3x Oblivion Ring
1x Swiftfoot Boots
3x Unburial Rites
6x Forest
1x Glacial Fortress
4x Hinterland Harbor
4x Island
2x Plains
1x Razorverge Thicket
2x Sunpetal Grove
2x Swamp
1x Woodland Cemetery
2x Beast Within
1x Dismember
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2x Gnaw to the Bone
3x Mental Misstep
2x Naturalize
2x Negate
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Wurmcoil Engine
Here's my 75. Im not running postmortem lunge, because nine times out of ten, i either milled it into the yard or drew it with my opening hand, and it was essentially a dead card. swiftfoot boots and unburial rites has done a lot better swinging a hasty cagebreaker for the win. viridian emissary really helps the deck's early game, as its either ramp or pressure. sun titan is an mvp in the deck, he has so many targets, and wins almost every game he resolves
W death + taxes W
It's slower, because you're not milling yourself, but I think you retain more control of how the game plays out. Personally I don't like randomly tossing cards into my grave (unless they have flashback), so I'd rather employ creatures that are designed to die.
Here's my sample decklist.
9 Forest
2 Kessig Wolf Run
5 Plains
3 Rootbound Crag
3 Sunpetal Grove
// Creatures
3 Acidic Slime
4 Ambush Viper
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Daybreak Ranger
4 Doomed Traveler
2 Grand Abolisher
3 Kessig Cagebreakers
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Beast Within
2 Gideon Jura
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Postmortem Lunge
2 Ranger's Guile
2 Autumn's Veil
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Moonmist
2 Nevermore
2 Parallel Lives
2 Ranger's Guile
In theory (because this deck will be tested this week), the early game is all about controlling the board with cards like the Mayor and Viper. Doomed Traveler is our chump blocker. Obviously we don't care if any of our cards die, because it's fuel for the Cagebreakers.
My thought is that with creatures like the ones I have here, my opponent is going to want to kill them. Grand Abolisher, Mayor of Avabruck, Daybreak Ranger, these are all cards that can be dangerous if allowed to live for too many turns.
I'll let you all know how the playtest turns out.
I forgot about Swiftfoot Boots! That might be a better protection card than Ranger's Guile in my deck. Hmmm...
Edit. Also the person suggesting white it defeats the purpose of the self mill strategy by not playing blue your list is a completely different deck to what this thread is trying to achieve.
As far as my testing goes, the key card that would give you Land advantage would be the Viridian emissary. As a sacrificial tool its either not to block or to take damage, in w/c would provide an advantage in the long run.
Im still experimenting on the list above to tweak it further, but upon reading through the thread, it may seem that the best way to go about having a Cagebreaker in play is to get it from the yard by Postmortem.
I've already thought about the Looter, I'm going to tweak the deck again later to add in the looters and check whether they are a viable piece or not.
Fog is there to provide early protection in the game. Divine reckoning is a alternative if in case that your opponent is already massing their army to give out one final blow.
The selection of the ambush viper provides a instant defense on early game as well. the Phantasmal bear is also there to provide additional damage/blocker and a yard filler.
Mimic Vat is here to provide additional back up if in case that the cagebreaker is killed right after it has been played. and once you are set-up with parallel lives, you can do a 1 turn kill. (in a perfect world).