^ iirc, I read someone using it as a secret tech back in Valakut. It has evasion against Liliana's edict at least, Can't be O-Ringed, can't be doom bladed/gftt. ( I could be wrong though)
It would still be sacrificed to edict. It does prevent it from all the other effects though, and with the bonus that it can't be killed with phantasmal image (as Thrun can).
dungrove elder seems ridiculously bad. i rarely find myself with more then 3 forests in play with this deck, and sometimes just 1 or 2. if you're really desperate for hexproof you can certainly maindeck Thrun, though i think thats pretty weak too.
I'm curious, how good do you think Gideon Jura is versus this deck? / How good do you think Hero of Bladehold is against Wolf Run? I haven't had a lot of time to playtest with Wolf Run yet so I don't know if I should worry about a card like Hero or not.
dungrove elder seems ridiculously bad. i rarely find myself with more then 3 forests in play with this deck, and sometimes just 1 or 2. if you're really desperate for hexproof you can certainly maindeck Thrun, though i think thats pretty weak too.
With Dungrove Elder in place of Slagstorm though you could drop the Grove and Gorge duals for more forests or play all forest and just splash red with a set of dual land (for activating the wolf run). This deck runs a lot of red mana just for Slagstorm's RR, so without it you could trade quite a few red sources for forests. Thompson runs 21 forest and 1 mountain, but I don't know if I would want to go quite that thin on red...
While overall Thrun may still be the better bet, the advantages that the elders have over Thrun are that they are 3cmc versus his 4cmc and they are not legendary (Thrun is), so multiples could possibly see play (and they won't get removed by phantasmal image, which will be a fairly common counter to Thrun).
With Dungrove Elder in place of Slagstorm though you could drop the Grove and Gorge duals for more forests or play all forest and just splash red with a set of dual land (for activating the wolf run). This deck runs a lot of red mana just for Slagstorm's RR, so without it you could trade quite a few red sources for forests. Thompson runs 21 forest and 1 mountain, but I don't know if I would want to go quite that thin on red...
While overall Thrun may still be the better bet, the advantages that the elders have over Thrun are that they are 3cmc versus his 4cmc and they are not legendary (Thrun is), so multiples could possibly see play.
Are you seriously saying that Dungrove Elder, a vanilla beater, is better than Slagstorm?
Are you seriously saying that Dungrove Elder, a vanilla beater, is better than Slagstorm?
Not all the time, but in certain situations (like the mirror), yes. Without slag, a number of red mana sources in this deck could become forests. The only reason there are so many is because Slagstorm requires RR.
I tested a bit. I kept holding onto slagstorm for some reason. Is it an auto include? What other replacements are viable?
Slagstorm is most definitely an auto-include... for the sideboard. One thing to realize with Nashville is that the metagame was pointing towards a hyper-aggressive aggressive format of White Weenie, Red Deck Wins, Tempered Steel, Vampires, token decks, etc. Slagstorm is better than Day of Judgment against decks that drop a lot of early little guys. And as a bonus, you can force your own "dies" effects off if you need the land off Viridian Emissary or the draw off of Solemn Simulacrum that bad (don't do that unless you're desparate).
However, once you get into mid-range decks, Solar Flare decks, and Control decks (sans Geist of Saint Taft or those flying Spirit tokens), those creatures all tend to be out of range of Slagstorm. You're better off dealing with those threats with cards like Beast Within. Even though I'm playing a different variant than R/G Wolf Run, I go with a 2-2 split between my main and side board.
I'm curious, how good do you think Gideon Jura is versus this deck? / How good do you think Hero of Bladehold is against Wolf Run? I haven't had a lot of time to playtest with Wolf Run yet so I don't know if I should worry about a card like Hero or not.
I'm not exactly an expert since I haven't faced a lot of Gideons yet.
If I had to guess, Gideon... I'm not that sure. Worst case scenario, he assassinates a Titan and then beats you down. Best case for you is Gideon gets Beast Withined upon resolution, or your opponent use his +2 to buy a turn or two with his Taunt ability, and you just run him like *snap your fingers* with Kessig Wolf Run. If Gideon's as effective as he was against Valakut... he's probably not last that long.
I would worry more about Hero of Bladehold for the same reason I was saying Grave Titan is a more effective finisher against Wolf Run from Control: the more field presence the opponent can generate, the more difficult it can be for us to break through.
Not all the time, but in certain situations (like the mirror), yes. Without slag, a number of red mana sources in this deck could become forests. The only reason there are so many is because Slagstorm requires RR.
Two things:
1. Personally I think more Red might be appropriate for the deck, not less. I've found Inferno Titan and burn spells to be an effective answer to Mirran Crusader and pro-green in general.
2. Thrun, the Last Troll is more effective than Dungrove Elder because it's harder to kill (minus legend rule), and Primeval Titan probably should be digging out utility lands and non-basics rather than forests to pump the Elder.
***
I'm not actually playing straight Wolf Run Ramp because I've been playing Jund. However, since I've started splashing for Wolf Run Ramp, I'd thought I'd share anyway so people can know what I'm running, and I can always use help.
Deck's tentatively named J.O.L.T. (Jund Olivia woLf run Titan):
Testing so far has been strong against control, but I'm a little shaky against aggro when I can't ramp into a Batterskull or a post-board Wurmcoil. But Olivia is great as either a portable... biter... and occasionally even her Mind Control effect comes in real handy. And surprisingly, I've never had a color problem I couldn't fix by turn 3... yet.
Don't forget that Wurmcoil acts as a pseudo-titan in itself. I've had numerous games where tutoring for a Wurmcoil put me in a far better position than digging up a Titan.
Splashing for Treasure Mage/Demonic Tutor are we? There's nothing wrong with theorycrafting but it doesn't help your cause to falsely claim you've had success doing something that you clearly have never done mate. The biggest issue with having Wurmcoil/Inferno in this deck as opposed to a green creature is that you're much less likely to see them since you can't extract them with GSZ...but I do think a these two cards merit a couple slots in the deck from what I've seen (just as they merited slots in Valakut).
I haven't played the deck yet since I'm on MTGO and won't get a chance to grab Innistrad cards until next weekend probably, but I'd like to know how the people who HAVE been playing/testing this deck are winning the majority of their games. I'm assuming it's through Inkmoth/Kessig? [And no I'm not questioning the validity/strength of the deck nor am I curious as to its win condition - that's quite obvious...I'm just wondering how it is performing in actual games.]
I started off similarly to you Mockingbird - looking to splash into Olivia, but I moved into Naya (WGr, not GRw), because several of the spells there are the things that wolf run has so much trouble with out of other decks. I had trouble making Slagstorm work on Jund colors without nixing Primal Hunter Garruk, who really is build-around good. (RB2, GGG2, and RR1 is just too much to ask from a manabase)
It's possible that it should be 2 O-rings and 4 Beast Withins to avoid chance of blowout in the mirror if I have to O-ring a Primeval, but O-ring is much better vs Solar Flare due to exile, and them only having a handful of answers. White's just got some outstanding cards that go well with this deck.
(On a somewhat related note I live in an apartment with very thin walls and the internet meme "Surprise buttsecks!!" isn't just on the internet anymore. Man that girl sounded pissed off.)
Currently playing Standard
:symr::symu::symg::symw:Mid-range:symr::symu::symg::symw: Modern
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Splashing for Treasure Mage/Demonic Tutor are we? There's nothing wrong with theorycrafting but it doesn't help your cause to falsely claim you've had success doing something that you clearly have never done mate. The biggest issue with having Wurmcoil/Inferno in this deck as opposed to a green creature is that you're much less likely to see them since you can't extract them with GSZ...but I do think a these two cards merit a couple slots in the deck from what I've seen (just as they merited slots in Valakut).
I haven't played the deck yet since I'm on MTGO and won't get a chance to grab Innistrad cards until next weekend probably, but I'd like to know how the people who HAVE been playing/testing this deck are winning the majority of their games. I'm assuming it's through Inkmoth/Kessig? [And no I'm not questioning the validity/strength of the deck nor am I curious as to its win condition - that's quite obvious...I'm just wondering how it is performing in actual games.]
I've got about 40-50 games in now, which obviously isn't a ton, but -
1) The main thing to realize is that it isn't really about whether you kill with poison or with damage, you're constantly threatening to do both once you stick a Titan. They end up choosing whether you will kill them with poison or damage.
2) At first, my playtesting opponents were too worried about the Inkmouth, which I suspect a lot of people will be until more games are played. Obviously, it needs to be dealt with, but I was able to get a bunch of damage kills in as people held back doom blades etc., while getting tuned up for 6+ damage a turn.
3) You didn't ask, but I've really been impressed with the list that won Nashville. I've tried a couple tweaks - Autum's Veil, Batterskull, a couple of games with Inferno Titan, Balefire Dragon, Thrun in the main. And I don't think anything I've done has improved on the list.
4) You also didn't ask, but I have yet to have a single game where I felt I lost b/c I only had 3 Titans in the deck.
The matchup I struggled the most with was U/W draw-go with tons of counters. Memoricide type effects can also be pretty annoying. Solar Flare felt kind of 50/50 when they had a build with tons of counters, and felt very much in my favor otherwise.
Vridian Emmisary is an auto 4 and so good against all forms of aggro its nuts. Thrun is sick in the sideboard and I'd cut a sword before I'd cut the third Thrun. With everyone likely jamming Flashfreeze now, I may run 3 Thrun, 2 Sword and 1 Autum's Veil as my U/B and Solar Flare sideboard package.
Some people have suggested less than 4 Beast Within, that surprises me. Extremely valuable.
Finally, getting ramp mana leaked always hurts. [Oh, and I don't like the Ratchet Bomb in the sideboard and have not been running that. There is no way to tutor for it, it feels random to have one in there, and I'm doing fine against Tempered Steel and Tokens anyway.]
Any thoughts on Urabrask, the Hidden main or in the board? I ran it main in my Wolf Run Ramp deck this week and I was never sad to see it.
I also ran Inferno Titan which was underwhelming, so I was glad to see this new Inkmoth Nexus-centric version of the deck that answers the card that gave me the most trouble at FNM this week: Liliana of the Veil
Any thoughts on possibly including Karn Liberated? This deck has access to him pretty easily. Any situations in which you'd rather have him than Garruk? Maybe a 1/3 split in the Planeswalker slot?
Thoughts on running a Ghost Quarter in the SB for the mirror? It seems like it could give just enough help to be able to have a tutorable answer to Kessig Wolf Run or Inkmoth Nexus.
I was thinking. What if you switch red for white completely, huh? Red doesn't give this deck much more than wolf run, although it's powerful.
If you play GW you get:
- upgrade to beast within in the form of o-ring.
- access to sun titan + quarter and elesh norn in mirror. I think sun titan also is strictly better than wurmcoil maindeck in the field with bunch of control.
- slagstorm switch to DoJ. No strict upgrade but it is still a good sweeper.
- white cards like reinforcements and Gideon in SB against aggro.
You still retain titan fetch nexuses. You still have a land that pumps, albeit much less explosive but more resistant to removal - better to activate several nexuses and give each +1/+1 token than activate one for huge damage and get it bladed.
Is wolf run such a strong card that it warrants playing red, that is otherwise weaker than white?
Sure, there is also Ancient grudge, but green can still play creeping corrosion against heavy artifact decks like steel and paladin.
i see alot of people bringing up Autumn's Veil and i have to stress that it is horrible. "answer for answer" cards like this simply don't work and never have. if your problem is that your threats are getting countered then you run more threats, not narrow cards that help you stick your one threat.
remember, if you draw an Autumn's Veil but no threat its useless. if you draw a threat but no Autumn's Veil its still awesome. if they counter the first threat and you draw an Autumn's Veil later its useless. if they counter the first threat and you draw another threat later its awesome.
when you're trying to figure out how to board against blue control decks, don't fear their countermagic. just board in more threats that are strong against them. seriously, they can't counter everything.
I was thinking. What if you switch red for white completely, huh? Red doesn't give this deck much more than wolf run, although it's powerful.
If you play GW you get:
- upgrade to beast within in the form of o-ring.
- access to sun titan + quarter and elesh norn in mirror. I think sun titan also is strictly better than wurmcoil maindeck in the field with bunch of control.
- slagstorm switch to DoJ. No strict upgrade but it is still a good sweeper.
- white cards like reinforcements and Gideon in SB against aggro.
You still retain titan fetch nexuses. You still have a land that pumps, albeit much less explosive but more resistant to removal - better to activate several nexuses and give each +1/+1 token than activate one for huge damage and get it bladed.
Is wolf run such a strong card that it warrants playing red, that is otherwise weaker than white?
Sure, there is also Ancient grudge, but green can still play creeping corrosion against heavy artifact decks like steel and paladin.
I'm sorry, but this idea is bad. All of it. DoJ is an awful idea for a few reasons. One of them being that Slagstorm and Beast Within have an undeniable synergy that allows you to take down their threat and Slagstorm it away while retaining your non-Inkmoth threat.
I was thinking. What if you switch red for white completely, huh? Red doesn't give this deck much more than wolf run, although it's powerful.
If you play GW you get:
- upgrade to beast within in the form of o-ring.
- access to sun titan + quarter and elesh norn in mirror. I think sun titan also is strictly better than wurmcoil maindeck in the field with bunch of control.
- slagstorm switch to DoJ. No strict upgrade but it is still a good sweeper.
- white cards like reinforcements and Gideon in SB against aggro.
You still retain titan fetch nexuses. You still have a land that pumps, albeit much less explosive but more resistant to removal - better to activate several nexuses and give each +1/+1 token than activate one for huge damage and get it bladed.
Is wolf run such a strong card that it warrants playing red, that is otherwise weaker than white?
Sure, there is also Ancient grudge, but green can still play creeping corrosion against heavy artifact decks like steel and paladin.
Take a look at the list I posted up above; I ran WGr for this exact list of reasons, and a very important one you didn't mention: Angelic Destiny. Flying + first strike is pretty good in a world of primeval titans and trampling inkmoths. Wrath is slightly better than slagstorm against humans. I think the wolf run kill itself is just too good not to run, and the WG land is a much slower clock.
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i see alot of people bringing up Autumn's Veil and i have to stress that it is horrible. "answer for answer" cards like this simply don't work and never have. if your problem is that your threats are getting countered then you run more threats, not narrow cards that help you stick your one threat.
remember, if you draw an Autumn's Veil but no threat its useless. if you draw a threat but no Autumn's Veil its still awesome. if they counter the first threat and you draw an Autumn's Veil later its useless. if they counter the first threat and you draw another threat later its awesome.
when you're trying to figure out how to board against blue control decks, don't fear their countermagic. just board in more threats that are strong against them. seriously, they can't counter everything.
Autumn's veil is pretty much the nut low of what you want to be doing.
I have played reverberate in extended valakut (last year), to some effect.
That card is better, just because it has a lot more utility. It's still horrible in this deck though.
This is a combo deck - you want to play out more threats than they have answers. Eventually you'll get through.
Something like devil's play is a lot better, because it does the same thing as autumns veil (gives you a better chance to win at the cost of a card in your deck), but a lot better, and it also does much, much more.
Like metamorph said - it's the difference between obsessing over "plan a" to where you're just making your plan worse, vs. coming up with a "plan b" that, while less powerful, can still be equally effective.
Also, I think you have to go for the 4th titan. There's no reason not to.
Fair warning, I've only been theory-crafting the deck. Made very few changes to the OG list.
4 Viridian Emissary + 4 Rampant Growth + 4 Green Sun's Zenith -> Birds Of Paradise felt a little "too" consistant, and seemed like it could clog some hands (I understand that GSZ does not do any clogging,) so I pulled a single Rampant Growth. I replaced it with a single Devil's Play as utility in the long games. I would be open to switching this to a single Viridian Corrupter, though. It could just as easily become the 27th land (3rd Kessig Wolf Run,) as well.
Once I feel out my area, I may or may not pull a MD Slagstorm and replace it with something; 4th Solemn Simulacrum, 2nd Devil's Play if results are positive, that Viridian Corrupter I mentioned, etc.
I read an article on TCGplayer the other day about mono-green strategies and the writer talked about diminishing returns with Tree Of Redemption, and I went with his suggestion of replacing 1 copy with a single Brindle Boar, which seems really sweet.
Lastly, the lone Ratchet Bomb got cut for the second Devil's Play in the SB. Again, time will tell.
Another card I was looking into if RDW is a bother was Gnaw To The Bone (as a 1-of or 2-of.) Casting it about turn 4 or 5 seems incredibly powerful with only 2-3 creatures in the bin. Buying us 4-6 life, and then being able to do it again as soon as necessary, and at Instant speed (not sure how relevant that is, since we'll be playing "tap-out" more often than not.)
What do you guys think of Tumble Magnet? It's one of the cards that I always find myself turning to while brewing since rotation, and it seems really good right now. It locks down whatever threat is present from Solar Flare, taps creatures with Swords, can stop/slow Inkmoth & Titans in the mirror match? It seems like the perfect follow-up to something like Thrun in any of these matches. Just some food for thought.
Take a look at the list I posted up above; I ran WGr for this exact list of reasons, and a very important one you didn't mention: Angelic Destiny. Flying + first strike is pretty good in a world of primeval titans and trampling inkmoths. Wrath is slightly better than slagstorm against humans. I think the wolf run kill itself is just too good not to run, and the WG land is a much slower clock.
It depends mainly on viability of 3 color manabase in this deck. If you can splash red just for wolf run and still reliably cast everything surely you should do it.
I guess this is ramp deck after all and getting 2 main colors and 1 splash all allied to work won't be a problem.
Not sure on destiny. Where do you side it in? Against control it's not better than sword and gets removed by same cards. Against aggro I don't see it working.
Maybe against RUG with grudges where you don't want a sword.
It would still be sacrificed to edict. It does prevent it from all the other effects though, and with the bonus that it can't be killed with phantasmal image (as Thrun can).
I'm curious, how good do you think Gideon Jura is versus this deck? / How good do you think Hero of Bladehold is against Wolf Run? I haven't had a lot of time to playtest with Wolf Run yet so I don't know if I should worry about a card like Hero or not.
With Dungrove Elder in place of Slagstorm though you could drop the Grove and Gorge duals for more forests or play all forest and just splash red with a set of dual land (for activating the wolf run). This deck runs a lot of red mana just for Slagstorm's RR, so without it you could trade quite a few red sources for forests. Thompson runs 21 forest and 1 mountain, but I don't know if I would want to go quite that thin on red...
While overall Thrun may still be the better bet, the advantages that the elders have over Thrun are that they are 3cmc versus his 4cmc and they are not legendary (Thrun is), so multiples could possibly see play (and they won't get removed by phantasmal image, which will be a fairly common counter to Thrun).
Are you seriously saying that Dungrove Elder, a vanilla beater, is better than Slagstorm?
Not all the time, but in certain situations (like the mirror), yes. Without slag, a number of red mana sources in this deck could become forests. The only reason there are so many is because Slagstorm requires RR.
Beast Within is a real card.
However, once you get into mid-range decks, Solar Flare decks, and Control decks (sans Geist of Saint Taft or those flying Spirit tokens), those creatures all tend to be out of range of Slagstorm. You're better off dealing with those threats with cards like Beast Within. Even though I'm playing a different variant than R/G Wolf Run, I go with a 2-2 split between my main and side board.
I'm not exactly an expert since I haven't faced a lot of Gideons yet.
If I had to guess, Gideon... I'm not that sure. Worst case scenario, he assassinates a Titan and then beats you down. Best case for you is Gideon gets Beast Withined upon resolution, or your opponent use his +2 to buy a turn or two with his Taunt ability, and you just run him like *snap your fingers* with Kessig Wolf Run. If Gideon's as effective as he was against Valakut... he's probably not last that long.
I would worry more about Hero of Bladehold for the same reason I was saying Grave Titan is a more effective finisher against Wolf Run from Control: the more field presence the opponent can generate, the more difficult it can be for us to break through.
A vanilla beater with Hexproof and like Tarmogoyf, becomes a serious menace the longer it lives. But it's not worth kicking Slagstorm from the deck.
Two things:
1. Personally I think more Red might be appropriate for the deck, not less. I've found Inferno Titan and burn spells to be an effective answer to Mirran Crusader and pro-green in general.
2. Thrun, the Last Troll is more effective than Dungrove Elder because it's harder to kill (minus legend rule), and Primeval Titan probably should be digging out utility lands and non-basics rather than forests to pump the Elder.
***
I'm not actually playing straight Wolf Run Ramp because I've been playing Jund. However, since I've started splashing for Wolf Run Ramp, I'd thought I'd share anyway so people can know what I'm running, and I can always use help.
Deck's tentatively named J.O.L.T. (Jund Olivia woLf run Titan):
4 Forest
3 Swamp
3 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Woodland Cemetery
2 Dragonskull Summit
3 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures: 18
4 Viridian Emissary
3 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Acidic Slime
3 Olivia Voldaren
3 Primeval Titan
2 Grave Titan
2 Batterskull
Instants: 4
1 Beast Within
3 Dismember
Planeswalkers: 2
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Sorceries: 9
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Slagstorm
3 Mind Rot
3 Rampant Growth
3 Beast Within
3 Memoricide
1 Dismember
2 Go for the Throat
2 Slagstorm
2 Inferno Titan
2 Wurmcoil Engine
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
My list did run 25 lands, and I think 25 lands is good enough
:symr::symu::symg: Canadian Threshold
EDH
Ashling the Pilgrim
Splashing for Treasure Mage/Demonic Tutor are we? There's nothing wrong with theorycrafting but it doesn't help your cause to falsely claim you've had success doing something that you clearly have never done mate. The biggest issue with having Wurmcoil/Inferno in this deck as opposed to a green creature is that you're much less likely to see them since you can't extract them with GSZ...but I do think a these two cards merit a couple slots in the deck from what I've seen (just as they merited slots in Valakut).
I haven't played the deck yet since I'm on MTGO and won't get a chance to grab Innistrad cards until next weekend probably, but I'd like to know how the people who HAVE been playing/testing this deck are winning the majority of their games. I'm assuming it's through Inkmoth/Kessig? [And no I'm not questioning the validity/strength of the deck nor am I curious as to its win condition - that's quite obvious...I'm just wondering how it is performing in actual games.]
i can't imagine that the value of a single card (whatever it is) is worth the price of increase your rate of failing to draw into 6 land.
Here's what I've got in Naya:
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Viridian Emissary
3 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Acidic Slime
2 Primeval Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Sun Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Sorceries: 10
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Rampant Growth
1 Day of Judgment
4 Oblivion Ring
Instants: 3
3 Beast Within
Planeswalkers: 3
3 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Lands: 26
1 Clifftop Retreat
8 Forest
3 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
3 Plains
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Rootbound Crag
4 Sunpetal Grove
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Viridian Corrupter
3 Angelic Destiny
2 Day of Judgment
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
It's possible that it should be 2 O-rings and 4 Beast Withins to avoid chance of blowout in the mirror if I have to O-ring a Primeval, but O-ring is much better vs Solar Flare due to exile, and them only having a handful of answers. White's just got some outstanding cards that go well with this deck.
Currently playing
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Modern
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I've got about 40-50 games in now, which obviously isn't a ton, but -
1) The main thing to realize is that it isn't really about whether you kill with poison or with damage, you're constantly threatening to do both once you stick a Titan. They end up choosing whether you will kill them with poison or damage.
2) At first, my playtesting opponents were too worried about the Inkmouth, which I suspect a lot of people will be until more games are played. Obviously, it needs to be dealt with, but I was able to get a bunch of damage kills in as people held back doom blades etc., while getting tuned up for 6+ damage a turn.
3) You didn't ask, but I've really been impressed with the list that won Nashville. I've tried a couple tweaks - Autum's Veil, Batterskull, a couple of games with Inferno Titan, Balefire Dragon, Thrun in the main. And I don't think anything I've done has improved on the list.
4) You also didn't ask, but I have yet to have a single game where I felt I lost b/c I only had 3 Titans in the deck.
The matchup I struggled the most with was U/W draw-go with tons of counters. Memoricide type effects can also be pretty annoying. Solar Flare felt kind of 50/50 when they had a build with tons of counters, and felt very much in my favor otherwise.
Vridian Emmisary is an auto 4 and so good against all forms of aggro its nuts. Thrun is sick in the sideboard and I'd cut a sword before I'd cut the third Thrun. With everyone likely jamming Flashfreeze now, I may run 3 Thrun, 2 Sword and 1 Autum's Veil as my U/B and Solar Flare sideboard package.
Some people have suggested less than 4 Beast Within, that surprises me. Extremely valuable.
Finally, getting ramp mana leaked always hurts. [Oh, and I don't like the Ratchet Bomb in the sideboard and have not been running that. There is no way to tutor for it, it feels random to have one in there, and I'm doing fine against Tempered Steel and Tokens anyway.]
I also ran Inferno Titan which was underwhelming, so I was glad to see this new Inkmoth Nexus-centric version of the deck that answers the card that gave me the most trouble at FNM this week: Liliana of the Veil
Any thoughts on possibly including Karn Liberated? This deck has access to him pretty easily. Any situations in which you'd rather have him than Garruk? Maybe a 1/3 split in the Planeswalker slot?
Anyone tested Autumn's Veil? If people are packing Flashfreeze and/or Doom Blade at states it might be a good meta call.
Thoughts on running a Ghost Quarter in the SB for the mirror? It seems like it could give just enough help to be able to have a tutorable answer to Kessig Wolf Run or Inkmoth Nexus.
There seems to be a consensus that Thrun, the Last Troll is good to bring in vs. control, should I make room in the SB for some Sword of Feast and Famine?
Thanks!
If you play GW you get:
- upgrade to beast within in the form of o-ring.
- access to sun titan + quarter and elesh norn in mirror. I think sun titan also is strictly better than wurmcoil maindeck in the field with bunch of control.
- slagstorm switch to DoJ. No strict upgrade but it is still a good sweeper.
- white cards like reinforcements and Gideon in SB against aggro.
You still retain titan fetch nexuses. You still have a land that pumps, albeit much less explosive but more resistant to removal - better to activate several nexuses and give each +1/+1 token than activate one for huge damage and get it bladed.
Is wolf run such a strong card that it warrants playing red, that is otherwise weaker than white?
Sure, there is also Ancient grudge, but green can still play creeping corrosion against heavy artifact decks like steel and paladin.
remember, if you draw an Autumn's Veil but no threat its useless. if you draw a threat but no Autumn's Veil its still awesome. if they counter the first threat and you draw an Autumn's Veil later its useless. if they counter the first threat and you draw another threat later its awesome.
when you're trying to figure out how to board against blue control decks, don't fear their countermagic. just board in more threats that are strong against them. seriously, they can't counter everything.
I'm sorry, but this idea is bad. All of it. DoJ is an awful idea for a few reasons. One of them being that Slagstorm and Beast Within have an undeniable synergy that allows you to take down their threat and Slagstorm it away while retaining your non-Inkmoth threat.
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Take a look at the list I posted up above; I ran WGr for this exact list of reasons, and a very important one you didn't mention: Angelic Destiny. Flying + first strike is pretty good in a world of primeval titans and trampling inkmoths. Wrath is slightly better than slagstorm against humans. I think the wolf run kill itself is just too good not to run, and the WG land is a much slower clock.
Autumn's veil is pretty much the nut low of what you want to be doing.
I have played reverberate in extended valakut (last year), to some effect.
That card is better, just because it has a lot more utility. It's still horrible in this deck though.
This is a combo deck - you want to play out more threats than they have answers. Eventually you'll get through.
Something like devil's play is a lot better, because it does the same thing as autumns veil (gives you a better chance to win at the cost of a card in your deck), but a lot better, and it also does much, much more.
Like metamorph said - it's the difference between obsessing over "plan a" to where you're just making your plan worse, vs. coming up with a "plan b" that, while less powerful, can still be equally effective.
Also, I think you have to go for the 4th titan. There's no reason not to.
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4 Viridian Emissary + 4 Rampant Growth + 4 Green Sun's Zenith -> Birds Of Paradise felt a little "too" consistant, and seemed like it could clog some hands (I understand that GSZ does not do any clogging,) so I pulled a single Rampant Growth. I replaced it with a single Devil's Play as utility in the long games. I would be open to switching this to a single Viridian Corrupter, though. It could just as easily become the 27th land (3rd Kessig Wolf Run,) as well.
Once I feel out my area, I may or may not pull a MD Slagstorm and replace it with something; 4th Solemn Simulacrum, 2nd Devil's Play if results are positive, that Viridian Corrupter I mentioned, etc.
I read an article on TCGplayer the other day about mono-green strategies and the writer talked about diminishing returns with Tree Of Redemption, and I went with his suggestion of replacing 1 copy with a single Brindle Boar, which seems really sweet.
Lastly, the lone Ratchet Bomb got cut for the second Devil's Play in the SB. Again, time will tell.
Another card I was looking into if RDW is a bother was Gnaw To The Bone (as a 1-of or 2-of.) Casting it about turn 4 or 5 seems incredibly powerful with only 2-3 creatures in the bin. Buying us 4-6 life, and then being able to do it again as soon as necessary, and at Instant speed (not sure how relevant that is, since we'll be playing "tap-out" more often than not.)
What do you guys think of Tumble Magnet? It's one of the cards that I always find myself turning to while brewing since rotation, and it seems really good right now. It locks down whatever threat is present from Solar Flare, taps creatures with Swords, can stop/slow Inkmoth & Titans in the mirror match? It seems like the perfect follow-up to something like Thrun in any of these matches. Just some food for thought.
1 Birds Of Paradise
3 Primeval Titan
3 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Viridian Emissary
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Beast Within
1 Devil's Play
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Rampant Growth
3 Slagstorm
9 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Ancient Grudge
1 Brindle Boar
1 Devil's Play
1 Slagstorm
3 Sword Of Feast And Famine
3 Thrun, The Last Troll
1 Tree Of Redemption
1 Viridian Corrupter
It depends mainly on viability of 3 color manabase in this deck. If you can splash red just for wolf run and still reliably cast everything surely you should do it.
I guess this is ramp deck after all and getting 2 main colors and 1 splash all allied to work won't be a problem.
Not sure on destiny. Where do you side it in? Against control it's not better than sword and gets removed by same cards. Against aggro I don't see it working.
Maybe against RUG with grudges where you don't want a sword.
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Viridian Emissary
4 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Acidic Slime
1 Inferno Titan
2 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Primeval Titan
Spells:
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
3 Beast Within
3 Slagstorm
4 Rampant Growth
4 Green Sun's Zenith
10 Forest
2 Mountain
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Ancient Grudge
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Acidic Slime
2 Tree of Redemption
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spellskite