well it is not like i want to finish the game that early, otherwise i would have choose a RDW deck.
I'm pretty sure, regardless of what the deck is, if you want to be competitive, you want to win as fast as possible. I realize we are a control deck but that doesn't mean we can't be fast. CawBlade was sealing games on turn 3 by dropping an appropriate sword/batterskull.
From what I can tell by other people's comments and personal theorizing, all that the Shrine does is disrupt the curve we are going for. All of the bombs we have are good on their typical turn but a turn faster makes them ridiculous. If I'm not playing Chalice turn 2, the only other thing I want to see is a Spellskite. I think that is pretty much the goal of this deck as of right now.
Obliterator is dealt with dismember, metamorph and magnet.
My current deck list. One of the biggest problems I'm having is missing my third land drop....and in some cases flood. I've been forced to go more burn heavy with the advent of aggro online. Urabrask the Hidden is kind of meh.....the biggest advantage is he eats the removal that would be directed toward Inferno. I'm not sold the phoneix's would be better off. But with surgical extraction, memoricide, and the white spell that with metal craft exiles cards its made Kuldotha irrelevant main board. Slaggstorm, may now outclass pyroclasm, however pyro has saved my ass over and over again. Advice and input:
Budge reasons have me waiting to get spellkite and dismember as they would be in the sideboard That also goes along that I would add a sphere to help with the life loss associated with our deck. I may put combust back in the board for splinter twin.
You have a really strong MB there. Actually, the only difference almost at all between our lists, is that I have my Skites in (which you explained), while my Metamorphs are kept SB. I'm iffy on your board though.
Ricochet Trap? Just not sure if it's good. Ruinblaster and Tunnel ignus? Eeeeeh. I'd run some sort of creature steal. Act of aggression and mark of mutiny are good choices. Other than that, I've heard Karn helps the ramp matchup.
Shrine red is definitely ridiculously powerful. I nearly lost to a person who was playing shrine red, and they had mulliganed to five cards. I lost to K-Red though who was playing Jinxed Idol out of nowhere. It was sickening to lose a Jinxed Idol.
Shrine Red is a variant on RDW. You drop your relatively safe shrine, then burn and bash like all hell before popping the thing for about 9. That however, is not Big Red.
Shrine Red is a variant on RDW. You drop your relatively safe shrine, then burn and bash like all hell before popping the thing for about 9. That however, is not Big Red.
I apologize. I played against it this evening. I was definitely playing Big Red. This is my list. Mainboarding Slagstorm would have definitely been great, but hindsight is 20/20.
Apparently I was running 61 cards. It worked out perfectly. And 22 lands actually worked out for the better. Two Batterskull saved my life against the three straight red decks I had to play against. I'm still on the fence of Perilous Myr. I'll probably change them out to pyroclasm. I played against 2 K-Red decks tonight, and it is not fun playing against them.
61 cards is usually safe, 62 even. 22 lands is just unsettling for me though. You can barely get away with that in K-Red.
You can probably afford to play 1 less Sphere of the suns. I'd strongly advise Galvanic Blast over Burst Lightning. If you're playing Blast late, you either have metalcraft up, or it wouldn't help the vast majority of the time.
Spellskite rapes aggro like you would not believe. Against most builds, he blocks like a champ and eats removal. RDW especially, since they have to destroy it before resuming work. I feel like Spellskite is more versatile than pyroclasm in boosting games (it helps some non-aggro games), though slagstorm is very useful.
Yeah, I've heard AoA has some really fun MB tricks, though I haven't tried any. (Or moved any creature steal MB)
EDIT: And is it just me, or do a lot of the same people run Big Red and Jund? There's 2 or 3 people who have Jund lists (not in paper, anyway), and another 2-3 in the Jund thread with Big Red lists (again, maybe not on paper).
Spellskite rapes aggro like you would not believe. Against most builds, he blocks like a champ and eats removal. RDW especially, since they have to destroy it before resuming work. I feel like Spellskite is more versatile than pyroclasm in boosting games (it helps some non-aggro games), though slagstorm is very useful.
Yeah, I've heard AoA has some really fun MB tricks, though I haven't tried any. (Or moved any creature steal MB)
EDIT: And is it just me, or do a lot of the same people run Big Red and Jund? There's 2 or 3 people who have Jund lists (not in paper, anyway), and another 2-3 in the Jund thread with Big Red lists (again, maybe not on paper).
Probably it is. some people likes milfs, some people like big boobs, some people like red heads...we do like big damage and red spells.
does any of you playtest on MTGO? my nick is the same. add me some we can playtest.
ugh.... had an abysmal week at fnm (well, compared to other weeks) went 2-1-1, and the match I lost should have been a win.... same with the tie but i made 2 HUUUUUUGE mis-plays. ive finally decided to drop batterskull for.... idk, something that doesnt cost 5. im getting a little bored of the deck so i might try a splash for some more flavor. not sure what color im going with but im leaning tword either a green or blue splash.... hell maybe both if im feeling risky. my meta is getting too much hate for me to deal with.
anyways good luck to everyone in the next coming weeks... i will prolly bow out till m12 is released and i get some new cards to play around with.
What would one actually splash green for? Beast Within probably.
No MTGO for me. Boo-hoo.
yeah, but blue seems better. I get mana leak/preordain/into the roil then. but idk.... the more i think about it, the more i want to come up with my own jank deck to play with lol.
someone piloting my Big Red deck got into top 4(so 4-1 overall). MD Slagstorm did well. Taking out spheres was good. So was the 3rd urabrask. Moltensteel was "eh" and still requires more testing. She Koth emblemed alot of people.
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Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
if you guys are thinking about splashing a color black is the best choice because hand discard and go for the throat both help in valakut and twin matchups
Not many of us are considering Splashing really. Tezzeret's Gambit is right about all we need outside of red and artifacts/colorless.
tru facts, im only doing it cause im bored. i might try to speed things up (my meta has shifted to where everyone is playing all-in decks..... its really annoying) RDW might be in my future *sadface*
Really? I've always considered this match an auto-win. Maybe that's because of 4 Combusts and 4 Ricochet Traps...
have you actually played the match or did you just assume that a couple of sideboard spells would get you through? not trying to be confrontational, just want to know whats up. my experience has been very very different.
i found game 1 to be the nut low. like 30% to win on a good day. like, you win more by opponent mana screwing than by any action of your own deck. i put in maindeck spellskite just to get that nut low number up from 30% to closer to 40%. they're still a big favorite game 1. you basically can't beat them without one of your nut draw hands that either gets a Koth Emblem on turn 4, or an Inferno Titan on turn 4. nothing else is fast enough. Spellskite is just there to slow them down enough for you to try and win without a nut draw. When you draw it it works ok, but sometimes you still lose. Still decent though. I wouldn't play it if not for its large utility in other matchups as well.
For sideboard cards I figure you need to get the matchup in game 2 to heavily favored or else the match is hopeless. having a bad match against a tier 1 deck is a death sentence for an archetype. its got to be at least competitive, not a blow out. maybe it will never be more than a 45% to win but thats enough if the matchups vs. other stuff is good.
so how do you raise the game 2 percentage? Combust is the obvious one. But its not enough. Even 4 Combust and 3 Spellskite is not enough chances to draw an out against the combo. I've been using Dismember as backup. Its been a strong sideboard card for me anyway because of the need to have something against pro-red guys. 4 Combust, 3 Spellskite, and 3 Dismember is enough to make the matchup pretty good game 2. I usually board out burn spells to make room for this stuff. It works ok. I couldn't really see playing the deck with any less stuff because Splinter Twin is such a threat.
tru facts, im only doing it cause im bored. i might try to speed things up (my meta has shifted to where everyone is playing all-in decks..... its really annoying) RDW might be in my future *sadface*
If you enjoy winning, then this is a good thing indeed. Spellskites, Slagstorms, possible Mental Missteps, Pyroclasm if it gets that bad. RDW is almost definitely our best matchup. I've only played a couple games against RDW, but I've never lost a match (though I only got mana screwed once [Spellskite stalled forever] and since I didn't test much, I never experienced a God-Hand). RDW and Exarch Twin are looking to be the T1, which isn't bad for us. A deck we have a great matchup against, and a deck that we have a not-quite-unwinnable matchup against.
wow, I think I´ve just found MY build. I feel very confortable with it. Actually feel that runs smooth and have just won 8 out 10 matches in the practice room. I think its time for real 2 mans now that I feel that i have a decent build. then 4 round std tournaments.
For those who are into MTGO here is how is the meta going in the first 24 hours of std on mtgo.
note that metagame in mtgo is zillion times faster than paper based decks. but this is faster more in terms of techy cards. As expected the most played decks are:
RDW and Vampires AND GOBLINS!!!
Valakut, Splinter Twin
UB control
tried Urabrask against phoenix, phoenix won because it can return to flame javelin them again. Also Phyrexian Metamorph almost made the cut.
I would like to try Batterskull. I don´t know to buy just for test. Does anyone already tested it in Big Red? Also I would like to test Norn's Annex from the sideboard... could it work???
Fun thing that lots of MBC players are on the tournament practice room. I´ve got 3 ragequits from them today , i´ve just got problems with a mind sludge on turn 5. I left with no cards... 7 turns. after i drew chandra, lightning bolt, slagstorm, land, chandra, koth. He drew 4 lands and 3 cards. He just got creature removal. Chandra count up to 11....then koth...he kill my mountain with 2 disfigure
for those of you who don't know, Twin players have been sideboarding Mutagenic Growth to combat combust out of the sideboard so that's not even a perfect answer anymore
for those of you who don't know, Twin players have been sideboarding Mutagenic Growth to combat combust out of the sideboard so that's not even a perfect answer anymore
A lesson I learned yesterday the hard way. I have to admit, it is quite a techy if desperate play.
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I'm pretty sure, regardless of what the deck is, if you want to be competitive, you want to win as fast as possible. I realize we are a control deck but that doesn't mean we can't be fast. CawBlade was sealing games on turn 3 by dropping an appropriate sword/batterskull.
From what I can tell by other people's comments and personal theorizing, all that the Shrine does is disrupt the curve we are going for. All of the bombs we have are good on their typical turn but a turn faster makes them ridiculous. If I'm not playing Chalice turn 2, the only other thing I want to see is a Spellskite. I think that is pretty much the goal of this deck as of right now.
My current deck list. One of the biggest problems I'm having is missing my third land drop....and in some cases flood. I've been forced to go more burn heavy with the advent of aggro online. Urabrask the Hidden is kind of meh.....the biggest advantage is he eats the removal that would be directed toward Inferno. I'm not sold the phoneix's would be better off. But with surgical extraction, memoricide, and the white spell that with metal craft exiles cards its made Kuldotha irrelevant main board. Slaggstorm, may now outclass pyroclasm, however pyro has saved my ass over and over again. Advice and input:
19 x mountian
4 x tectonic edge
Artifacts (10)
4 x Everflowing Chalices
2 x Sphere of the Suns
4 x Tumble Magnets
Creatures (11)
3 x Inferno Titans
3 x Wurm Coils
2 x Urabrask the Hidden
3 x Phyrexian Metamorph
4 x Koth of the Hammer
4 x Lightning bolt
2 x Pyroclasm
4 x Tezzert Gambit
2 x Kuldotha Phoniex
1 x Phyrexian Metamorph
2 x Pyroclasm
2 x Richcet Trap
2 x Shatter
4 x Tunnel Ignus
Budge reasons have me waiting to get spellkite and dismember as they would be in the sideboard That also goes along that I would add a sphere to help with the life loss associated with our deck. I may put combust back in the board for splinter twin.
I just do not know what to cut.
calling liberals loons=not okay
The standard to which the forum moderators apply the rules here.
Ricochet Trap? Just not sure if it's good. Ruinblaster and Tunnel ignus? Eeeeeh. I'd run some sort of creature steal. Act of aggression and mark of mutiny are good choices. Other than that, I've heard Karn helps the ramp matchup.
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However, I went 3-1-1 splitting top four.
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I apologize. I played against it this evening. I was definitely playing Big Red. This is my list. Mainboarding Slagstorm would have definitely been great, but hindsight is 20/20.
3 Inferno Titan
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Batterskull
3 Kuldotha Phoenix
3 Urabrask, the Hidden
Spells
4 Koth of the Hammer
4 Everflowing Chalice
3 Sphere of the Suns
3 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
4 Tumble Magnet
4 Tectonic Edge
18 Mountain
3 Perilous Myr
3 Slagstorm
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Dismember
3 Shatter
Apparently I was running 61 cards. It worked out perfectly. And 22 lands actually worked out for the better. Two Batterskull saved my life against the three straight red decks I had to play against. I'm still on the fence of Perilous Myr. I'll probably change them out to pyroclasm. I played against 2 K-Red decks tonight, and it is not fun playing against them.
You can probably afford to play 1 less Sphere of the suns. I'd strongly advise Galvanic Blast over Burst Lightning. If you're playing Blast late, you either have metalcraft up, or it wouldn't help the vast majority of the time.
Other than that, a very strong list overall.
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Yeah, I've heard AoA has some really fun MB tricks, though I haven't tried any. (Or moved any creature steal MB)
EDIT: And is it just me, or do a lot of the same people run Big Red and Jund? There's 2 or 3 people who have Jund lists (not in paper, anyway), and another 2-3 in the Jund thread with Big Red lists (again, maybe not on paper).
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Probably it is. some people likes milfs, some people like big boobs, some people like red heads...we do like big damage and red spells.
does any of you playtest on MTGO? my nick is the same. add me some we can playtest.
anyways good luck to everyone in the next coming weeks... i will prolly bow out till m12 is released and i get some new cards to play around with.
RR(P/U)Big Red(P/U)RR 24-8-2 (un-retired)
RWR BorosRWR 21-7 (retired)
Modern Lists:
Boros
Kithkin
No MTGO for me. Boo-hoo.
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yeah, but blue seems better. I get mana leak/preordain/into the roil then. but idk.... the more i think about it, the more i want to come up with my own jank deck to play with lol.
RR(P/U)Big Red(P/U)RR 24-8-2 (un-retired)
RWR BorosRWR 21-7 (retired)
Modern Lists:
Boros
Kithkin
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
Join the Poetry Running Contest!
Yeap,
Actually between, tezzeret's gambit, dismember, spellskite and ratchet bomb (and steel hellkite) you can deal with everything
tru facts, im only doing it cause im bored. i might try to speed things up (my meta has shifted to where everyone is playing all-in decks..... its really annoying) RDW might be in my future *sadface*
RR(P/U)Big Red(P/U)RR 24-8-2 (un-retired)
RWR BorosRWR 21-7 (retired)
Modern Lists:
Boros
Kithkin
have you actually played the match or did you just assume that a couple of sideboard spells would get you through? not trying to be confrontational, just want to know whats up. my experience has been very very different.
i found game 1 to be the nut low. like 30% to win on a good day. like, you win more by opponent mana screwing than by any action of your own deck. i put in maindeck spellskite just to get that nut low number up from 30% to closer to 40%. they're still a big favorite game 1. you basically can't beat them without one of your nut draw hands that either gets a Koth Emblem on turn 4, or an Inferno Titan on turn 4. nothing else is fast enough. Spellskite is just there to slow them down enough for you to try and win without a nut draw. When you draw it it works ok, but sometimes you still lose. Still decent though. I wouldn't play it if not for its large utility in other matchups as well.
For sideboard cards I figure you need to get the matchup in game 2 to heavily favored or else the match is hopeless. having a bad match against a tier 1 deck is a death sentence for an archetype. its got to be at least competitive, not a blow out. maybe it will never be more than a 45% to win but thats enough if the matchups vs. other stuff is good.
so how do you raise the game 2 percentage? Combust is the obvious one. But its not enough. Even 4 Combust and 3 Spellskite is not enough chances to draw an out against the combo. I've been using Dismember as backup. Its been a strong sideboard card for me anyway because of the need to have something against pro-red guys. 4 Combust, 3 Spellskite, and 3 Dismember is enough to make the matchup pretty good game 2. I usually board out burn spells to make room for this stuff. It works ok. I couldn't really see playing the deck with any less stuff because Splinter Twin is such a threat.
If you enjoy winning, then this is a good thing indeed. Spellskites, Slagstorms, possible Mental Missteps, Pyroclasm if it gets that bad. RDW is almost definitely our best matchup. I've only played a couple games against RDW, but I've never lost a match (though I only got mana screwed once [Spellskite stalled forever] and since I didn't test much, I never experienced a God-Hand). RDW and Exarch Twin are looking to be the T1, which isn't bad for us. A deck we have a great matchup against, and a deck that we have a not-quite-unwinnable matchup against.
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For those who are into MTGO here is how is the meta going in the first 24 hours of std on mtgo.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnline.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/whatshappening
note that metagame in mtgo is zillion times faster than paper based decks. but this is faster more in terms of techy cards. As expected the most played decks are:
RDW and Vampires AND GOBLINS!!!
Valakut, Splinter Twin
UB control
This what I am currently confortable with:
2 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Slagstorm
2 Act of Aggression
2 Chandra Nalaar
4 Koth of the Hammer
4 Sphere of Suns
2 Spellskite
2 Inferno Titan
2 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Kuldotha Phoenix
21 Mountains
3 Tectonic Edge
2 Act of Aggression
4 Arc Trail
3 Combust
1 Dismember
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Shatter
1 Slagstorm
tried Urabrask against phoenix, phoenix won because it can return to flame javelin them again. Also Phyrexian Metamorph almost made the cut.
I would like to try Batterskull. I don´t know to buy just for test. Does anyone already tested it in Big Red? Also I would like to test Norn's Annex from the sideboard... could it work???
Fun thing that lots of MBC players are on the tournament practice room. I´ve got 3 ragequits from them today , i´ve just got problems with a mind sludge on turn 5. I left with no cards... 7 turns. after i drew chandra, lightning bolt, slagstorm, land, chandra, koth. He drew 4 lands and 3 cards. He just got creature removal. Chandra count up to 11....then koth...he kill my mountain with 2 disfigure
Mine is the same...as here.
calling liberals loons=not okay
The standard to which the forum moderators apply the rules here.
Aggro
RDW/Goblins 12
Wu Swords 1
UG Slight Infect 1
GW Faunavine 1
Control
Ub Control 4
Ux Control 1
Combo
Valakut 4
Splinter Twin 3
Pyromancer Ascencion 1
Pretty clear eh?
A lesson I learned yesterday the hard way. I have to admit, it is quite a techy if desperate play.