Mono Black Control

  • #1
    Mono Black Control






    Huzzah Folks, we've hit 4k Posts and 200k Veiws. Go Mono-Black!
    And it only took a dozen flame wars to get here Wink



    Deck lists:




    Summary:

    Finishers:

    Abyssal Persecutor: The drawback is built around in the deck without including cards that would otherwise be useless on their own. This deck pretty much plays a turn 4, 6/6 Flying Trample with a virtually non-existent drawback as its beat-stick.

    Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief:Evasive beater, Re-usable kill on a stick. It's fairly mana-intensive, but she has a niche to fill. Probably doesn't deserve MB space anymore, but if you're building a budget deck, she's good for her price tag.

    Ob Nixilis, the Fallen:Powerful finisher, especially in conjunction with Fetchlands. Turns your Land drops into Lightning Bolt+Giant Growth, which is nothing to laugh at.

    Grave Titan: 10 power and growing for a 6 mana investment. There's really no reason not to run this guy, barring price concerns. Even if he immediately hits removal, you've still got 4 power.

    Corrupt: Huge Life Swings, Huge Tempo erasure. It's basically Tendrils, with the ability to point at the opponent. Except, of course, costing six mana...I haven't seen corrupt played in a while, honestly. Again, good in budget.

    Wurmcoil Engine: I consider Wurmcoil a slightly worse finisher than Grave Titan, but it does have advantages.

    Phyrexian Obliterator: Generally he serves an an unblockable beater, since very few decks can afford to chump him. Wall of Omens and Spellskite slow him for a turn, of course.




    Creatures:

    Nantuko Shade: It's Nantuko Shade. MBC players have been begging for this and Hymn to return since this guy rotated out ten years ago. Well, we got the best Black beater of all time back in M11. Enjoy. (Ironically, he's not even all that great in current standard...)

    Gatekeeper of Malakir: A better Fleshbag Marauder. A BBB Cruel Edict that also gives you a 2/2 body. Sacrifice outlet for Abyssal Persecutor.

    Vampire Nighthawk: Hard to beat 3-drop, particularly for mono black. Amazing both defensively and offensively. His abilities and P/T are worth well over his casting cost.

    Vampire Hexmage: 'Walker and Ally hate. Never mind that it also hits Everflowing Chalice too (UW Control is really hyping them up). And it's First Strike ability is superb vs. aggro.

    Liliana's Specter: 2/1 Flier, built in card advantage, and instant speed discard engine on a Mimic Vat. That's a good thing.


    Spells:

    Sign in Blood: Straight card advantage and can help you out when you've lost steam.

    Grasp of Darkness: One of the Best black removal spells ever printed. However, does not kill titans, and is thus not quite a catch-all.

    Doom Blade: In other news, Jund rotated. Doom Blade is playable again.

    Consuming Vapors: Card Advantage, Lifegain, and Removal in one convenient package. Unlike Tendrils, however, it is untargeted and sorcery speed. Still at least a 3 of.

    Consume the Meek: Because every control deck needs a reliable sweeper, and Consume the Meek fills that role wonderfully. It is also instant speed, which makes up for the fact that it cannot hit creatures with 4+ CMC. However, you're running plenty of removal for those. Probably a sideboard card in the current meta.

    Mind Sludge: Most likely will clear their hand by turn 5, which will likely win the game for you alone against slower decks. You should run 3, no questions asked.

    Liliana Vess: The tutor ability is great, discard can be helpful too. Her last ability seems counter productive in such a deck, and will likely never be reached anyway in a competitive environment, but if you have a Fleshbag Marauder in your graveyard, then bringing out a dead Abyssal Persecutor isn't a problem.

    Sorin Markov: Beats the hell out of Aggro. However, you're playing MBC, which already beats the hell out of Aggro. It's a difficult threat for control to answer though, but has generally fallen out of favor. If you're running Liliana Vess, Sorin is a wonderful 1 of to tutor for.


    Mimic Vat:

    Yep, it gets its own category. Mimic Vat is possibly the most powerful card in this deck, and certainly the most versatile. Imprinting any creature in our deck gives up ridiculous Advantages in Board position, card advantage, and straight up races, often. Liliana's specter allows for an instant speed discard hard-lock, Gratekeeper and Skinrender Are repeatable removal+ damage, and Grave Titan or Wurmcoil will win you the game within a matter of turns.


    Lands:

    Swamps: Duh, this is Mono Black Control. You should be running around 20 swamps at the minimum.

    Fetchlands: They fuel an Almighty Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, and allow Grim Discovery to help you make your land drops.

    Tectonic Edge: Works well with Grim Discovery for recurring nonbasic land destruction. Good on its own too. Mana denial, especially against the multitude of Dual and Tri-colored decks in the format, can be brutal. Merely holding Jund off of one color for a turn or two gives you time to drop a game-ending Mind Sludge.

    Dread Statuary: Uncounterable, colorless beater. Unlike Gargoyle Castle, it reverts to being a land at the end of turn. While it avoids sorcery speed removal, it also fails to interact with Grim Discovery. It also dies to Bolt.




    Sideboard:

    Deathmark: Kills most threats in the format, and hits everything except RDW and Vampires.

    Duress: Sideboard hate vs Control, which can be a difficult matchup at times. Yanking Jace or a vital counterspell can completely derail your opponent's gameplan.

    Suffer the Past: Excellent hate vs RDW and Open the Vaults, stealing unearthers, stopping recursion tricks, and huge life-swings.

    Black Knight: White hate with first strike against aggro, and cost efficient.

    Malakir Bloodwitich: White hate, CIP ability can be very useful. Blocks and evades Baneslayer Angel.

    Sadistic Sacrement: Particularly good against control and combo decks.

    Haunting Echoes: Slow, but will wreck Mill/Fog decks if resolved.


    Splashing:

    As an astute player will notice, there are a lot of Dual lands in the current enviornment.

    The M10 Duals, Worldwake Manalands, Refuges, Shards duals, and Terramorfic expanses allow for easily splashing another color.

    Black's ally colors, Blue and Red, can be splashed easily without running ANY non-black lands. The price, of course, is your "swamps matter" cards.


    Red:




    Blue:

    Last edited by narah: 6/17/2011 8:04:01 AM
  • #2
    What's up all. Figured I'd go ahead and post a list I've been running the past few weeks, to pretty good results.

    Cigarette's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures=7
    4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
    3x Abyssal Persecutor

    Spells=29
    4x Sign in Blood
    4x Inquisition of Kolizek
    4x Tendrils of Corruption
    3x Consuming Vapors
    3x Consume the Meek
    3x Smother
    3x Grim Discovery
    3x Mind Sludge
    2x Sorin Markov

    Lands=24
    18x Swamp
    4x Marsh Flats
    2x Gargoyle Castle



    So far this week tested about 25-30 games each versus Jund, a G/R Eldrazi Spawn deck, much like "Bramble Might Win", and both U/W controls.

    Versus Jund I have had roughly a 70% win rate.
    "Bramble Might Win" 65-70% win rate.
    U/W Control, Tap out, is the easier of the two, for my list at least, and has equaled about 65% win vs 50ish% against Chaplin Control.

    Contemplating another Percy main, but not quite sure what I would drop for it. Also would like to test at least one Lily this week, and may drop a Consume the Meek to get her in.

    As always, any criticism is welcome, be it flaming, or constructive.

    Moved from old thread.
    Last edited by Cigarette: 4/28/2010 7:32:46 PM


    Currently Playing
    Standard
    UBU/B ControlBU
    EDH
    GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
  • #3
    So we have a new thread eh? Well I guess I can repost my list just to get some content added:
    scryb's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Land
    19 Swamp
    3 Tectonic Edge
    2 Gargoyle Castle

    Creatures
    4 Abyssal Persecutor
    4 Vampire Nighthawk
    4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
    3 Vampire Hexmage

    Spells
    3 Consuming Vapors
    4 Tendrils of Corruption
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    3 Mind Sludge
    3 Sign in Blood
    2 Grim Discovery
    2 Haunting Echoes



    Since I've last posted, I've nixed Liliana for a third Consuming Vapors, since I found myself often tutoring for one anyway. I also updated the sideboard. My deck is slightly different than normal with the inclusion of Haunting Echoes which is a nice unexpected surprise that wins me games that I should not. I echoed away all of a U/W control's Cancels, Luminarchs, Collonades, Paths and Dojs one game. It was easy to win after that.

    edit: the one of Emrakul are for some people who are still trying mill decks, he (she?) will become Kozilek when I open one since that is more likely to get casted.
    Last edited by scryb: 4/28/2010 9:17:10 PM
    The only sound was the gentle clicking of the Faeries' wings. Then those intruders who were still standing turned and fled. One thing was certain: they didn't think the Scryb were very funny anymore.
  • #4
    I think echos is brilliant. No one expects it, and after a Consume, it could single handedly kill people by taking every creature in their deck. I also agree with Kozi over Emrakul. Though would Ulamog be even better? I think he's pretty under-rated...
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  • #5
    New thread! Well aren't we special. Here's the list I'm currently running, though it's still in progress and is constantly changing.

    Gizzlebubbear's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Spells- 36
    4 Sign in Blood
    4 Smother
    4 Everflowing Chalice
    4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
    4 Consuming Vapors
    4 Tendrils of Corruption
    3 Mind Sludge
    3 Consume the Meek
    2 Sorin Markov
    4 Nightmare

    Lands- 24
    24 Swamp



    I initially had cut the Chalices for Gatekeepers because the chalice is such a bad topdeck, but when twenty four lands had me missing my fifth land drop I cut cards to raise my swamp count to 26, and then decided that as long as I needed the mana sources they might as well be accelerants.
    I loved the gatekeepers though (obviously); without them I would need to draw one of the four chalices in my first eight or nine cards to have a solid turn three play that could slow down the opponent. So I took out the Inquisition of Kozileks because they were pretty awful topdecks whereas Gatekeeper had both early and late game viability. If anyone has an opinion on Inquisition and if it deserves a spot I'd love to hear it since I'm still a little on the fence about it.
    For finishers I'm running Nightmare and Sorin, and I should always have six mana sources by turn seven to drop one of them. Sorin is really invaluable in the control matchup though Nightmare is way stronger against Jund, which is obviously pretty important.
    As far as the board goes the vast majority of it is for the control matchup. Liliana is strong in a number of matchups but is key against control, sadistic sacrament is for any deck running Iona (I initially only had one but the rise of polymorph has me a little paranoid), Pithing Needle is an answer to Luminarch Ascension and is for control, Ulamog is a meta choice because, believe it or not, Jacerator is kinda big in my area, the Deathmarks are auto-includes, and suffer the past comes in against RDW, vamps with ghast, Open the Vaults, etc (does anyone think Haunting Echoes could be better in this spot? Just curious)
    Last edited by Gizzlebubbear: 4/28/2010 9:58:01 PM
    Type 2:
    :symr:Tribal Goblins:symr:
    :symb:Mono-Black Control:symb:
    :symb::symu::symw:Esper Aggro:symw::symu::symb:

    EDH:
    :symb::symr::symu:Sedris, the Traitor King:symu::symr::symb:
  • #6
    I've made a few updates to my Bond Combo list, so I'll post it for the sake of variety:

    Mono Black CombtrolMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    22 Swamp
    3 Gargoyle Castle

    4 Vampire Nighthawk
    4 Gatekeeper of Malakir

    4 Sign in Blood
    4 Smother
    3 Grim Discovery
    3 Infest
    4 Tendrils of Corruption
    2 Diabolic Tutor
    3 Mind Sludge
    3 Liliana Vess

    1 Sanguine Bond
    1 Blood Tribute



    Because I'm trying to win with the combo, I am okay with running Tendrils over Consuming Vapors right now. However, I will definitely be testing that card on MWS.
    Quote from necrogenesis
    I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.


    Trade Thread. Always looking for FOIL Jar of Eyeballs!
  • #7
    Quote from Adam W
    I've made a few updates to my Bond Combo list, so I'll post it for the sake of variety:

    Mono Black CombtrolMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    22 Swamp
    3 Gargoyle Castle

    4 Vampire Nighthawk
    4 Gatekeeper of Malakir

    4 Sign in Blood
    4 Smother
    3 Grim Discovery
    3 Infest
    4 Tendrils of Corruption
    2 Diabolic Tutor
    3 Mind Sludge
    3 Liliana Vess

    1 Sanguine Bond
    1 Blood Tribute



    Because I'm trying to win with the combo, I am okay with running Tendrils over Consuming Vapors right now. However, I will definitely be testing that card on MWS.


    The only combo player in any of the MBC threads we've had. haha ;]
    Is it safe running only 1 of's of your wincon though?



    Joining in with my list.

    Zuko's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    23 Swamp
    2 Gargoyle Castle

    3 Nightmare
    4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
    4 Vampire Nighthawk

    3 Tendrils of Corruption
    3 Mind Sludge
    4 Sign In Blood
    3 Consume the Meek
    3 Consuming Vapors
    4 Smother
    3 Grim Discovery
    1 Liliana Vess
    1 Sorin Markov

    Last edited by Zuko: 4/28/2010 11:00:34 PM
    ART | DARK SKAIS. | PowerEqualityAlwaysCEverything

    Legacy: Pox
  • #8
    Quote from Snow
    The only combo player in any of the MBC threads we've had. haha ;]
    Is it safe running only 1 of's of your wincon though?



    I was kind of wondering that same thing actually. Is there no enchantment hate at all in your meta?
    Quote from mystery45
    lets use are heads and brains
  • #9
    What happend to old thread?
    Thanks to [Heroes of the Planes] and DNC for the wonderful Sig and Avatar!

    Standard
    :symu::symb: UB Control :symu::symb:
    black mana Mono Black Control black mana

    Tarmocy A.K.A Legacy
    red mana BURN red mana
  • #10
    As much as I was interested in the concept of mono-black control, I didn't have high hopes for this deck. Well, I was proven completely wrong today. I haven't done tons of playtesting yet, but I'm currently 50-0 with this deck. I've yet to lose a round during playtest. The worst I did was losing game one to RDW before I sided in Hexmage and Duress to shut down burn and Hellspark/Ball Lightning. So far I've played against RDW/RBDW extensively, WW extensively, some experimental eldrazi ramp deck, Bramble Might Win, and Esper Control. Tomorrow I'll likely be testing it against Mythic, which I have no doubt I'll dominate, and Chapin Control, which I'm a little more weary to play against.

    Sovereign's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands (24)
    24x Swamp

    Creatures (14)
    4x Abyssal Persecutor
    4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
    4x Vampire Nighthawk
    2x Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief

    Spells (22)
    4x Sign in Blood
    4x Tendrils of Corruption
    3x Mind Sludge
    3x Liliana Vess
    3x Consume the Meek
    3x Consuming Vapors
    2x Doom Blade



    I had no mana issues, which honestly amazed me. I seem to be running less land than everyone else here, but I had absolutely no problem fueling my spells.

    I was weary of using Persecutor, but with the amount of player-targeted creature removal in this deck, it was no issue at all. Persecutor really makes this deck shine. I have some doubts about it being able to handle the threat of Baneslayer, obviously. I'm hoping that Baneslayer will be shut down by my mainboard Drana, and Bloodwitch after sideboard. Gatekeeper was amazing, but I play vampires so I already knew that. Same deal with Nighthawk, they are arguably the best creatures in standard black. I didn't know what to think about Drana at first, but she really proved her worth in the games I played her in. If she hit the field, it was game over. One of my opponents actually felt so threatened by her that he sided in Pithing Needle specifically to deal with her ability. I'm honestly considering bumping her up to a 3-of.

    Sign in Blood is a no-brainer, it's straight CA. Tendrils is an amazing, amazing card. I'm considering dropping it to 3 since it's not something I necessarily want to see opening hand. Mind Sludge will probably stay at 3-of. It definitely won some games, but it got sided out in the RDW match up since the archetype is so fast that by turn five, they are likely top decking already, or close to it. I didn't really think Liliana was going to be great, but I was wrong. She's great planeswalker in this deck. I never used her ultimate, but the tutor ability is golden. The ability to find sac-outlets for percy, find board removal in the form of CtM, find big threats like Percy and Drana, or find specific answers to specific threats like Baneslayer in the form of Drana and Bloodwitch keeps this deck consistent. I can't stress how valuable she was for me in almost every single match. Consume the Meek let me deal with swarms. It completely dominated WW and the Eldrazi Ramp deck. I definitely will be keeping this a 3-of. Consuming Vapors is really, really good. Also keeping as a 3-of. Not completely sure about Doom Blade. I don't necessarily want to run Smother main board due to the CMC restriction, and I'm despite it's awesomeness, I'm trying to stay away from Deathmark since it's not instant.

    I'm not completely sure about the sideboard. With the introduction of levelers and the abuse of Planeswalkers, plus the complete domination of half of RDW's creatures, I've thought about moving Hexmage to the mainboard, but I don't know if it would help. I never got a chance to use Suffer the Past against RDW, but I never really needed it. I'm sure it will be great against Open the Vaults, though. Bloodwitch is an amazing sideboard option and I won't be cutting her. Duress pulled a total of a Lightning Bolt and a Searing Blaze the entire night. If I had used IoK, I could have ripped a Hellspark, Hell's Thunder, or Ball Lightning. I'll likely be switching it soon. I didn't get a chance to use Pithing Needle, but I'm sure it will be great against UW control.
  • #11
    So basically you didn't play vs any top decks which are competetive... nice testing.
    Thanks to [Heroes of the Planes] and DNC for the wonderful Sig and Avatar!

    Standard
    :symu::symb: UB Control :symu::symb:
    black mana Mono Black Control black mana

    Tarmocy A.K.A Legacy
    red mana BURN red mana
  • #12
    Quote from Zytz
    I was kind of wondering that same thing actually. Is there no enchantment hate at all in your meta?


    Not much, no. The only card that gets me is Oblivion Ring, but most people don't understand what I'm trying to do until it's too late. I usually board out the combo for Nightmares in game 2 as well.

    I've been thinking about All is Dust as some Ring-proofing, but 7 mana is kind of prohibitive.
    Quote from necrogenesis
    I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.


    Trade Thread. Always looking for FOIL Jar of Eyeballs!
  • #13
    Quote from Mind Game
    So basically you didn't play vs any top decks which are competetive... nice testing.


    So basically you didn't add anything constructive to the conversation. Nice posting.


    Sovereign, you've got what looks to be a really solid list there. I'm personally still not sold on Drana, but if I keep hearing good things I miay have to try her out. I'm curious about your experience with Consume the Meek.

    Lastly a comment about your SB- I haven't found very many instances where I really wanted to see a Pithing Needle - I run up against Planeswalkers more than anything else, and while the Needle deals with them just fine, the Hexmage has been more than adequate for me. Needle has the added benefit of stopping manlands as well, but I really prefer just casting Smother on a manland once its been activated.
    Quote from mystery45
    lets use are heads and brains
  • #14
    Any thoughts on Vess over Sorin? Or is it totally dependant on how much discard you run?
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  • #15


    I've been trying a build that's fairly close to this, with a few differences (Tec Edge over Castle, +4 Marsh flats, +4 IoK, with Lili and Smothers moved to the board, a little bit of difference in the numbers.)

    I haven't had much chance to test this particular version, so let me ask you a few things on yours:

    How are you vs. UW and Polymorph combo? My Meta is fairly heavy on these two decks, and I feared that some of my changes have weakened me in that matchup.

    Also, What's your strategy vs. Jund? It seems like your board doesn't have much for that matchup, is this simply because you built the Main to take it on?

    Rules Adviser
  • #16
    Quote from pandafarmer
    Any thoughts on Vess over Sorin? Or is it totally dependant on how much discard you run?


    Vess is actually my backup plan. She's a nice card to have mid-game for her tutoring ability, and she's great when you can use her +1 to ensure that their hand stays empty.

    There is a certain finesse involved in playing her, though - she's our (inferior) version of Jace TMS. I've actually used her ultimate a handful of times and won.

    Sorin I'm just not that impressed with, but I can see how he would be useful in other builds.
    Quote from necrogenesis
    I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.


    Trade Thread. Always looking for FOIL Jar of Eyeballs!
  • #17
    Quote from Mind Game
    So basically you didn't play vs any top decks which are competetive... nice testing.


    Hate to break it to you, but RBDW is competitive. I also explained what I'm testing it against today. Thanks anyway Rolleyes

    Quote from Zytz
    Sovereign, you've got what looks to be a really solid list there. I'm personally still not sold on Drana, but if I keep hearing good things I miay have to try her out.

    I like her overlap with Persecutor as a Baneslayer... slayer. I also used her as a sac outlet for Persecutor several times. She's effective at picking off other creatures as well, obviously. Plus she's a 4/4 flying body at 5 mana, not a bad deal. Only downside is legendary rule, but I don't see how having more than one on the field would be very beneficial.

    I'm curious about your experience with Consume the Meek.

    It was a very valuable card. It wrecks WW and proved itself effective against RDW due to its instant speed.

    Lastly a comment about your SB- I haven't found very many instances where I really wanted to see a Pithing Needle - I run up against Planeswalkers more than anything else, and while the Needle deals with them just fine, the Hexmage has been more than adequate for me. Needle has the added benefit of stopping manlands as well, but I really prefer just casting Smother on a manland once its been activated.


    It's almost entirely there for Chapin Control. When I played Vampires, there was a lot of hate on Hexmage. More threats against Jace (or Gideon, if they run him) is a very good thing.
    Last edited by Sovereign: 4/29/2010 10:51:33 AM
  • #19
    Quote from Obakemono
    I've been trying a build that's fairly close to this, with a few differences (Tec Edge over Castle, +4 Marsh flats, +4 IoK, with Lili and Smothers moved to the board, a little bit of difference in the numbers.)

    I haven't had much chance to test this particular version, so let me ask you a few things on yours:

    How are you vs. UW and Polymorph combo? My Meta is fairly heavy on these two decks, and I feared that some of my changes have weakened me in that matchup.

    Also, What's your strategy vs. Jund? It seems like your board doesn't have much for that matchup, is this simply because you built the Main to take it on?


    UW is a pretty even matchup. Play smart and don't over extend and you should be fine. My sideboard is geared strictly to control and combo. It's hard to lose when you get a sludge and echoes to resolve.
    Haven't played polymorph yet, but I imagine that would be extremely easy with SadSac's and such.

    You're correct about Jund. I don't really have anything in my sideboard to combat against jund because I feel like my main works out as well as it can. Still not an easy matchup of course, it being jund and all. haha
    ART | DARK SKAIS. | PowerEqualityAlwaysCEverything

    Legacy: Pox
  • #20
    How devastating has Echoes been when it resolves?
  • #21
    Well...here is my deck. I wanted to put it in the new thread.

    Sacrificial AtonementMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands: 23
    19 Swamp
    4 Tectonic Edge

    Creatures: 12
    4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
    4 Vampire Knighthawk
    4 Abyssal Persecutor

    Spells: 25
    4 Everflowing Chalice
    4 Inquistion of Koslik
    4 Sign in Blood
    4 Consuming Vapors
    4 Tendrils of Corruption
    3 Mind Sludge
    2 Consume Spirit


    This has been working like a charm. Tons of disruption...with a great control and finisher package.
    My EDH Decks
    [EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
    • Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you...Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul...and the other died for your freedom.
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    • The next time you think you are perfect...try walking on water. Halo
  • #22
    Quote from Sovereign
    How devastating has Echoes been when it resolves?


    It's been good to me. I've hardly dropped a game where it has resolved.
    ART | DARK SKAIS. | PowerEqualityAlwaysCEverything

    Legacy: Pox
  • #23
    ImAChampion... Are the chalice overkill at all? I mean when you cast that are you ever wanting to put the mana elsewhere? Or is it to fuel a kicked Sacrament after boarding?
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  • #24
    Quote from Snow
    It's been good to me. I've hardly dropped a game where it has resolved.


    Snow- I currently have suffer the past sitting in my sideboard, but I'm beginning to think that haunting echoes may be an all around better choice for graveyard hate. I run enough mana sources that I should always have five by turn five, so do you think it should take the sideboard spot? I guess the advantage of suffer is that it's instant speed, cheaper, and of course deals damage, but I'm not really worried about my opponent's life total and since unearth and open the vaults are at sorcery speed does it really matter? And the advantage of echoes is that, for example, if I resolve it against a vamp deck with a ghast in the yard I don't have to worry about another one for the rest of the match. Seems like a very strong play to me
    Last edited by Gizzlebubbear: 4/29/2010 3:41:17 PM
    Type 2:
    :symr:Tribal Goblins:symr:
    :symb:Mono-Black Control:symb:
    :symb::symu::symw:Esper Aggro:symw::symu::symb:

    EDH:
    :symb::symr::symu:Sedris, the Traitor King:symu::symr::symb:
  • #25
    Quote from Gizzlebubbear
    Snow- I currently have suffer the past sitting in my sideboard, but I'm beginning to think that haunting echoes may be an all around better choice for graveyard hate. I run enough mana sources that I should always have five by turn five, so do you think it should take the sideboard spot? I guess the advantage of suffer is that it's instant speed, cheaper, and of course deals damage, but I'm not really worried about my opponent's life total and since unearth and open the vaults are at sorcery speed does it really matter? And the advantage of echoes is that, for example, if I resolve it against a vamp deck with a ghast in the yard I don't have to worry about another one for the rest of the match. Seems like a very strong play to me


    I love echoes. If you can resolve one before their graveyard becomes active with whatever theyre playing (dredge, rdw, vaults), then it'd be game over. The echoes will clear the grave and their library of future threats, suffer the past is faster however.
    So I'm not sure which would be better to play. I'd play echoes personally. But you know never to till you test. =]
    ART | DARK SKAIS. | PowerEqualityAlwaysCEverything

    Legacy: Pox
  • #26
    One more comment on Echoes since I'm the crazy person who plays it maindeck. There are no decks I can think of when I would not want an Echoes. I guess if the board is bad for me it won't fix that, but with Vapors, Tendrils and Gatekeepers, that doesn't happen too often. It is even good against RDW, they tend to stutter without their bolts, ball lightnings and bursts. It is also a house against Control. I usually wait until their wrath/path or w/e is in their GY and then never worry about it again for the rest of the game. It is a great control card in an already wonderful control deck. My list is what I will be playing at FNM and probably Nationals/PTQ season.
    The only sound was the gentle clicking of the Faeries' wings. Then those intruders who were still standing turned and fled. One thing was certain: they didn't think the Scryb were very funny anymore.
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