We need artifact removal. My friend runs mwc and its the most annoying, game slower ever when he has 2 lawkeepers and 2 tumble magnets, then copies a tumble magnet eith a metamorph. How do we deal with that???
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but il throw my hat into the ring and guess it will be either alot stronger, or, if the rumors of multicolored coming back are true, nearly impossible to play.
i will be very disappointed if my obliterators aren't playable but id like to see multicolored come back, so im torn
but il throw my hat into the ring and guess it will be either alot stronger, or, if the rumors of multicolored coming back are true, nearly impossible to play.
i will be very disappointed if my obliterators aren't playable but id like to see multicolored come back, so im torn
whatever innistrad ends up being, it sounds sick
So it's probaly best to wait and see before deciding wether or not to do mono black?
We need artifact removal. My friend runs mwc and its the most annoying, game slower ever when he has 2 lawkeepers and 2 tumble magnets, then copies a tumble magnet eith a metamorph. How do we deal with that???
Kill the lawkeepers...You should have more creature removal than he can possibly have Lawkeepers...
Against Tumble Magnet I just say "Declare attack phase" and let them tap me down... cast something if I need to and pass turn... If you are playing a control deck they aren't going to be doing much other than burning counters off their tumble magnet... you just build up land and get in a position to drop your big guys.
I have had some success with my Apostle's Blessing that I run in my MB deck dealing with Tumble Magnet... Your guy gets Pro Artifact for the turn and can quickly turn a game around if you have put a Lash on something while your opponent is locking your guy down with the Magnet.
So it's probaly best to wait and see before deciding wether or not to do mono black?
well i imagine most people who frequent this thread already know they are going to play mono black control when Innistrad releases because thats what they want to play, so they'll make it work for them.
if you're asking, "should i buy Obliterators or Simulacrums now in preparation for MBC becoming playable?" then i really cant answer that. I personally hope MBC is made stronger by the confirmed new Liliana, and seemingly recent confirmation of Sorin 2.0 in Dark Ascension.
Add that to the graveyard themes and spooky atmosphere of the two promo arts and card arts, I predict a possible Torment style set where not only graveyards matter but possibly Black itself will matter.
I'd wait to see some previews before I drop 80$ on a set of Obliterators, but if you have them keep them.
I'm very excited to see the new set and get away from this combo environment, hopefully since nothing in scars is overpowered there will be balance in the force once Zendikar rotates.
but il throw my hat into the ring and guess it will be either alot stronger, or, if the rumors of multicolored coming back are true, nearly impossible to play.
i will be very disappointed if my obliterators aren't playable but id like to see multicolored come back, so im torn
whatever innistrad ends up being, it sounds sick
First of all i'm not sure we should be talking about this right now.
And second of all, MaRo said that the monster tribes, although in two colours, will be split between them two colours.
for example, Zombies
Blue Zombies = Man made, frankenstien type zombies
Black Zombies = Traditional zombies
So i don't think we will have too much multicolour, but who knows.
There have been several "Mono Black Midrange" decks placing at events here recently. Smaller events, but events nonetheless. I thought I'd try my hand at one of these lists as I've been going in and out of MBC for a couple of years now. I'm going to try this out at FNM (unless I decide I want to win, in which case I'll play something else).
I've always taken a small creature base approach, usually 4 beaters, and 2 finishers. I think this list may be strictly better. I can see having issues against tempered steel, and RDW if they have a nutty start, but the SB is pretty good for that. Let me know what you think, or any improvements to be made.
You need some sweepers somewhere and rager is very bad card. You can take any other played black creature or wurmcoil and it'll be better.
I actually meant to put a BSZ and CtM in the side, but forgot by the end of writing the list out (I may run a CtM mainboard since it's just good against twin too). The only reason I added Rager was to fill MBCs worst flaw which is card draw/advantage. I did have another Nighthawk, a GT, and a Wurmcoil Engine in the 3 spots it takes up. It's completely untested to me, so you may be right. I'll take that in to consideration.
I actually meant to put a BSZ and CtM in the side, but forgot by the end of writing the list out (I may run a CtM mainboard since it's just good against twin too). The only reason I added Rager was to fill MBCs worst flaw which is card draw/advantage. I did have another Nighthawk, a GT, and a Wurmcoil Engine in the 3 spots it takes up. It's completely untested to me, so you may be right. I'll take that in to consideration.
Have you had any success using a 5 mana card against a 4 mana combo that can tap a land you control to secure their position? that in addition to running counters. I dont think mass removal is any good vs twin if anything i would run spot removal or extractions effects both of those are better vs the field of valakunt, twin and the new versions of caw blade.
I find that can be really good for Control matchups, I'd rather chance that being countered than having my creatures never get through.
I also swap Sign in Blood out for Aggro matchups because there's nothing that Mono Black players love more than you sacing 2 life.
mass removal does not help you get dmg in as much as it stops them from getting past your one or two guys. i can see the consume the meek being effective vs agroo like tempered steel and agroo control like caw blade but i fail to see how it will perform vs a deck like twin.
Have you had any success using a 5 mana card against a 4 mana combo that can tap a land you control to secure their position? that in addition to running counters. I dont think mass removal is any good vs twin if anything i would run spot removal or extractions effects both of those are better vs the field of valakunt, twin and the new versions of caw blade.
It's not for the combo, but it works, being instant speed, and hitting all of the copies, and the original exarch. It can be countered. I already have spot removal and extraction in the board. These are clearly the best answers.
There have been several "Mono Black Midrange" decks placing at events here recently. Smaller events, but events nonetheless. I thought I'd try my hand at one of these lists as I've been going in and out of MBC for a couple of years now. I'm going to try this out at FNM (unless I decide I want to win, in which case I'll play something else).
I've always taken a small creature base approach, usually 4 beaters, and 2 finishers. I think this list may be strictly better. I can see having issues against tempered steel, and RDW if they have a nutty start, but the SB is pretty good for that. Let me know what you think, or any improvements to be made.
I think you need more land. You have 8 4cc spells and 6 5+ cc spells (inlcuding BSZ here). You need quite a few swamps for oblit, corrupt, and lash. I'd add at least 1 more. You want to drop a land every turn 1-4.
I think you need more land. You have 8 4cc spells and 6 5+ cc spells (inlcuding BSZ here). You need quite a few swamps for oblit, corrupt, and lash. I'd add at least 1 more. You want to drop a land every turn 1-4.
My secret tech card is Leaden Myr, which I believe not a lot of people have tried, Leaden Myr allows you to cast a 3rd turn Phyrexian Obliterator or a 4th turn Mind Sludge, both of which can be pretty devastating when casted early. The Leaden Myr can also act as a body to pick up Lashwrithe late game.
Do let me know your comments on how I can improve my deck
My secret tech card is Leaden Myr, which I believe not a lot of people have tried, Leaden Myr allows you to cast a 3rd turn Phyrexian Obliterator or a 4th turn Mind Sludge, both of which can be pretty devastating when casted early. The Leaden Myr can also act as a body to pick up Lashwrithe late game.
Do let me know your comments on how I can improve my deck
I think you need to focus on lifelink, which let's you survive the long games, or ramp, which doesn't let it get to be a long game. You are trying to do both and in so doing are losing slots for hand disruption and sweepers, both of which I believe are critical to the MBC plan. I think the trade off should be between vault skirge and leaden myr. You want ramp, lose vault skirge, cause you should be running Inquisition of Kozilek in my opinion. Vamp nighthawk could stay, because he's pretty decent on his own rights, if anything to eat removal that your obliterator would otherwise get.
The sweeper you could swap out between sideboard/md with mind sludge, or if you opt out of leaden myr you could do mind rot, distress, or duress instead (you have enough removal to not need despise), depending on your meta.
sseems like alot of posters here have lost the drive to continue in this thread, probably going to other more interesting deck building threads or busy creating with Pod.
but at Czech Nationals, which wasnt the BIGGEST tourney ever (150 people) MBC came in 3rd, thats pretty damn good, and I think we should take the que from that guy's list, which he called midrange. I guess thats a better name considering the true CONTROL build would be higher cmc finishers and Simulacrums.
that being said, i think the key to the 3rd place mainboard was the 8 targetted discard to remove dismembers and go for the throats, duress even hits batterskull and day of judgement, two bad news spells for us.
after board, 4 memoricides come in for gideons, prime titans, or whatever else is agitating. Liliana is a great way to set up the endgame
this deck looks really solid, i'm running this the next chnace i get, i'll post results when i can and hopefully someone will want to discuss
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but il throw my hat into the ring and guess it will be either alot stronger, or, if the rumors of multicolored coming back are true, nearly impossible to play.
i will be very disappointed if my obliterators aren't playable but id like to see multicolored come back, so im torn
whatever innistrad ends up being, it sounds sick
Why are you talking about this? No rotation discussion. Wait until the set is out before talking about Innistrad.
So it's probaly best to wait and see before deciding wether or not to do mono black?
Kill the lawkeepers...You should have more creature removal than he can possibly have Lawkeepers...
Against Tumble Magnet I just say "Declare attack phase" and let them tap me down... cast something if I need to and pass turn... If you are playing a control deck they aren't going to be doing much other than burning counters off their tumble magnet... you just build up land and get in a position to drop your big guys.
I have had some success with my Apostle's Blessing that I run in my MB deck dealing with Tumble Magnet... Your guy gets Pro Artifact for the turn and can quickly turn a game around if you have put a Lash on something while your opponent is locking your guy down with the Magnet.
well i imagine most people who frequent this thread already know they are going to play mono black control when Innistrad releases because thats what they want to play, so they'll make it work for them.
if you're asking, "should i buy Obliterators or Simulacrums now in preparation for MBC becoming playable?" then i really cant answer that. I personally hope MBC is made stronger by the confirmed new Liliana, and seemingly recent confirmation of Sorin 2.0 in Dark Ascension.
Add that to the graveyard themes and spooky atmosphere of the two promo arts and card arts, I predict a possible Torment style set where not only graveyards matter but possibly Black itself will matter.
In preparation for the rotation, if you really are interested in playing MBC or BR or BU or BG, I'd get my hands on:
3-4 Surgical Extraction
4 Smallpox (liliana 2.0 has been rumored to have a Death Cloud effect)
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Lashwrithe
2-3 Call to the Grave
1-2 Grave Titan
1 Sorin Markov
2-3 Life's Finale
3-4Black Sun's Zenith
I'd wait to see some previews before I drop 80$ on a set of Obliterators, but if you have them keep them.
I'm very excited to see the new set and get away from this combo environment, hopefully since nothing in scars is overpowered there will be balance in the force once Zendikar rotates.
First of all i'm not sure we should be talking about this right now.
And second of all, MaRo said that the monster tribes, although in two colours, will be split between them two colours.
for example, Zombies
Blue Zombies = Man made, frankenstien type zombies
Black Zombies = Traditional zombies
So i don't think we will have too much multicolour, but who knows.
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Vampire Nighthawk
Planeswalkers
2 Liliana Vess
1 Karn Liberated
Non-Creature Spells
1 Consume the Meek
1 Corrupt
1 Dismember
2 Doom Blade
2 Duress
2 Go for the Throat
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lashwrithe
4 Sign in Blood
23 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Bloodghast
3 Disfigure
1 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
2 Memoricide
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Wurmcoil Engine
I've always taken a small creature base approach, usually 4 beaters, and 2 finishers. I think this list may be strictly better. I can see having issues against tempered steel, and RDW if they have a nutty start, but the SB is pretty good for that. Let me know what you think, or any improvements to be made.
I actually meant to put a BSZ and CtM in the side, but forgot by the end of writing the list out (I may run a CtM mainboard since it's just good against twin too). The only reason I added Rager was to fill MBCs worst flaw which is card draw/advantage. I did have another Nighthawk, a GT, and a Wurmcoil Engine in the 3 spots it takes up. It's completely untested to me, so you may be right. I'll take that in to consideration.
Have you had any success using a 5 mana card against a 4 mana combo that can tap a land you control to secure their position? that in addition to running counters. I dont think mass removal is any good vs twin if anything i would run spot removal or extractions effects both of those are better vs the field of valakunt, twin and the new versions of caw blade.
I also swap Sign in Blood out for Aggro matchups because there's nothing that Mono Black players love more than you sacing 2 life.
mass removal does not help you get dmg in as much as it stops them from getting past your one or two guys. i can see the consume the meek being effective vs agroo like tempered steel and agroo control like caw blade but i fail to see how it will perform vs a deck like twin.
It's not for the combo, but it works, being instant speed, and hitting all of the copies, and the original exarch. It can be countered. I already have spot removal and extraction in the board. These are clearly the best answers.
I think you need more land. You have 8 4cc spells and 6 5+ cc spells (inlcuding BSZ here). You need quite a few swamps for oblit, corrupt, and lash. I'd add at least 1 more. You want to drop a land every turn 1-4.
Noted and updated. Thanks.
4x Leaden Myr
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Phyrexian Obliterator
1x Grave Titan
1x Sorin Markov
3x Sign in Blood
3x Mind Sludge
2x Go for Throat
1x Doom Blade
2x Dismember
3x Lashwrithe
My secret tech card is Leaden Myr, which I believe not a lot of people have tried, Leaden Myr allows you to cast a 3rd turn Phyrexian Obliterator or a 4th turn Mind Sludge, both of which can be pretty devastating when casted early. The Leaden Myr can also act as a body to pick up Lashwrithe late game.
Do let me know your comments on how I can improve my deck
Esper - Sydri - Alternate take on the Artifacts meta
Orzhov - Regna and Krav - Tokens and Lifegain and +1/+1 counters
Mono Green - Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar - Land Matters
WURG Kynaios and Tiro Grouphug/Fistbump
I think you need to focus on lifelink, which let's you survive the long games, or ramp, which doesn't let it get to be a long game. You are trying to do both and in so doing are losing slots for hand disruption and sweepers, both of which I believe are critical to the MBC plan. I think the trade off should be between vault skirge and leaden myr. You want ramp, lose vault skirge, cause you should be running Inquisition of Kozilek in my opinion. Vamp nighthawk could stay, because he's pretty decent on his own rights, if anything to eat removal that your obliterator would otherwise get.
The sweeper you could swap out between sideboard/md with mind sludge, or if you opt out of leaden myr you could do mind rot, distress, or duress instead (you have enough removal to not need despise), depending on your meta.
I hate it when people use oversized uppercase to emphasise a point.
Edit: I should have ignored this, sorry.
but at Czech Nationals, which wasnt the BIGGEST tourney ever (150 people) MBC came in 3rd, thats pretty damn good, and I think we should take the que from that guy's list, which he called midrange. I guess thats a better name considering the true CONTROL build would be higher cmc finishers and Simulacrums.
that being said, i think the key to the 3rd place mainboard was the 8 targetted discard to remove dismembers and go for the throats, duress even hits batterskull and day of judgement, two bad news spells for us.
after board, 4 memoricides come in for gideons, prime titans, or whatever else is agitating. Liliana is a great way to set up the endgame
this deck looks really solid, i'm running this the next chnace i get, i'll post results when i can and hopefully someone will want to discuss
that way u keep the mono black mana base but u get virtual card advantage with man lands.
before i get ripped, i do understand that you will lose mind sludge, corrupt, lashwrite and any other swamp-based spell.