Deceiver Exarch can also tap one of their lands or untap a land for Spell Pierce. Of course, they'll just kill it with the ETB effect on the stack if they're smart, but still. Works against nubs.
I don't really think the combo is that good maindeck. G1 most decks CAN deal with it, but fold to it game 2. I'd rather have the best chance available to win G1, as G2 and G3 are certainly going to be harder.
Pro tip: If you want to REALLY psyche your opponent out, wait until G3 to board the combo in, as they'll anticipate it G2 and likely board in dead cards which will give you a better shot at G2 without boarding. Just shuffle your sideboard in, then pull it out.
Edit: I know it seems a little cheap, but the rules allow it. As such, I'll have my poker face on :|
The point of Phyrexian mana in this deck is that it allows you to run more sorceries. Perhaps I want to be casting PA or See Beyond on turn 2, but I also want to be killing that Lotus Cobra with Gut Shot? Or, maybe I want to be Arc Trailing that Steppe Lynx and Geopede, but I also want to Gitaxian Probe. Etc.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
also unless they have double bolt, 5mana for a burst, 3 artifacts and galv, or mainboard flame slash, you should have no problem sticking an instant speed creature.
I'm not complaining if a Red player throws all their burn at the exarch haha
what's with this Neurok Commando thing? I mean, I'm totally new to PA combo, but how a evasionless, 2/1 dude that draws a card is better than Foresee or Tezzeret's Gambit? Foresee can dig for up to 8 cards and draw 4 with PA.
Also, how do you guys think this deck will respond to that Phyrexian 1/1 that eats counters? It's obvious the first one will die to removal, but they can cast it later with mana open to eat all the counters from PA.
what's with this Neurok Commando thing? I mean, I'm totally new to PA combo, but how a evasionless, 2/1 dude that draws a card is better than Foresee or Tezzeret's Gambit? Foresee can dig for up to 8 cards and draw 4 with PA.
If you've ever played permission control or counter-burn before, the issue is that the deck runs out of gas in the middle turns. You can only 1:1 trade for so long until you run out of cards, and our topdecks aren't that strong. Neurok Commando doesn't need evasion, since we have 4+ counters and 8+ burn spells to clear the way. He basically comes in and does what Jace Beleren was doing except more efficiently.
I would suggest googling an old Forbidian decklist to get a sense of what we're trying to accomplish.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
If you've ever played permission control or counter-burn before, the issue is that the deck runs out of gas in the middle turns. You can only 1:1 trade for so long until you run out of cards, and our topdecks aren't that strong. Neurok Commando doesn't need evasion, since we have 4+ counters and 8+ burn spells to clear the way. He basically comes in and does what Jace Beleren was doing except more efficiently.
I would suggest googling an old Forbidian decklist to get a sense of what we're trying to accomplish.
The inherent problem with using Neurok commando like that is that you are almost negating your card draw by using cards to make sure the commando gets damage through. Jace Beleren you play, draw a card, and are +1 in CA. If you play a commando, then have to bolt a blocker to draw a card, all you've really done is shocked the opponent.
[CARD]
neurok commando[/CARD] will never be good in t2 lol. comes down on t3....is only a 2/1. so wont have affect until t4 (hint: play jace) where squadren hawk just blocks him...cool story.
and you provided an example of why its bad it was in an "old" decklist from ages ago. and you cant burn away squadren hawk unless you have ascension running and even then thats bad.
I don't think im that confident, but i too am skeptical about how neurok commando can be good in t2... can someone explain in more depth other than "its card advantage duh"
I don't think im that confident, but i too am skeptical about how neurok commando can be good in t2... can someone explain in more depth other than "its card advantage duh"
I understand why people dislike the card at first glance, it doesn't look that good on paper. The reasoning behind playing it is that this deck (straight ascension, not splinter twin) wins by playing spells. You play spells, they go in the graveyard, you play more of the same spells, your spells are now doubled and you win by playing more of the same spells - this is the core idea of Pyromancer Ascension decks. Now, In most versions of the deck these 'spells' are either burn spells or counterspells, both of which try to keep the board clear of threats in the early game. Commando allows you to benefit from continuing this board clearance into the middle of the game, where usually you would have to start aiming your spells at your opponent's face if you don't want to run out of gas. I'm not sure how well I've explained this but the main idea behind playing Neuromancer is that he gives you cards for playing your other cards.
I should mention that I played Pyromancer Ascension in a PTQ recently (went 4-2) with a list that ran 3 mini Jaces, playsets of Trap and Snare maindeck and no maindecked Commandos. The card does not work by itself to generate CA like Jace does, but within the shell of burn heavy ascension list it functions in a similar way but with a higher risk and higher reward (I sided them in with the rest of my burn every time).
Commando seemed weak to me, too. Truth is, he's great. Would you rather Burst Lightning your opponent's dome in a race-like fashion, or burn their creatures? Usually you don't go for their life total until you have PA online so you are gaining value each turn. Now, when you burn a creature in a defensive state, you get to still do 2 damage to their life total, and replace the burn card with something fresh. You can't lose with 2 active Commandos, and 1 Commando is infuriating for any deck that doesn't run Gatekeepers or Squadron Hawks, and even Squadron Hawk decks aren't that well positioned, because we still have a card in hand after killing their hawk and dealing them 2.
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Commando seemed weak to me, too. Truth is, he's great. Would you rather Burst Lightning your opponent's dome in a race-like fashion, or burn their creatures? Usually you don't go for their life total until you have PA online so you are gaining value each turn. Now, when you burn a creature in a defensive state, you get to still do 2 damage to their life total, and replace the burn card with something fresh. You can't lose with 2 active Commandos, and 1 Commando is infuriating for any deck that doesn't run Gatekeepers or Squadron Hawks, and even Squadron Hawk decks aren't that well positioned, because we still have a card in hand after killing their hawk and dealing them 2.
This man speaks the truth. The question becomes, do you want to be attacking or defending? Both are valid strategies in a Pyromancer list. If you want to be attacking, play Commando. If you want to defend and sit behind counterspells, play Jace. Here's my PTQ list as a demonstration of the latter:
This is pre NPH obviously and although I'm playing standard at FNM this week I wouldn't play the list again. I did well with it at the time (I lost 1 of my games to mono-green and the other because of play errors) because the people weren't expecting it, it has a good MU against caw-blade, it punishes players running lots of fetchlands (the trick was not losing the first round and playing against more budget decks :P) and sideboarding was a hilarious mind game. However, this is the list I'll be running this week.
Hmm... That's a very persuasive argument, and it makes perfect sense... I might have to test him.
@vacantmentality: How would you change that second list with NPH added in? (for Gitixian Proble at least, i assume)
by the way, from what testing i have done online, the probe is sweet. Most PA lists should be running 3-4 unless they have a really good reason not to, IMO.
So I've just been lurking this forum until now. This discussion is very relevant to me, given I've been playing PA since PA was spoiled. Neurok Commando seemed to be a solid suggestion from this thread, so I tried it last FNM. I'm not much for creatures, especially in a deck that is 100% based on spells like PA, but this guy got there.
First round, I played an honest-to-god U/W control, not caw-blade. In game 1, turn three, I dropped the commando, and he then had to read the card, despite having been playing for a long time. This was a sign of things to come in the match, as he had no means of stopping it, and throughout my 2-0 sweep, commandos dealt at least 20 damage and drew at least 10 cards. Overall, matches against control tend to work in a similar way: catch them without blue and play a pyromancer, then catch them again without blue and burn for lethal. In this case, add in another blue-less turn to put down the commando.
Second round was against some homebrew Glissa deck that killed its last opponent with infinite life loss. Against me, he wasn't so lucky, as it turns out exsanguinate is very easy to mana leak, and every creature was 3 or less toughness.
Third round was against grixis Tezzeret. In the first game, I literally never cast a PA, dealing 8 with the commando, and 12 with all the burn he drew for me. That is a very ideal first match, since he had no idea I even had PA in the deck, suspecting I was playing some sort of counterburn. The next match a PA went active, and that was that.
The fourth round was my only loss, but it was a very exciting game. I was against a G/W cawblade deck that went the squadron hawk/mystic route, but also genesis wave, emeria angel, and avenger of zendikar. First game, I killed both a birds of paradise and lotus cobra before they could untap, fatally slowing their deck. The next two games were battles of pyroclasm vs firewalker, each utterly crippling the other's deck. In the end, I lost this round 1-2, possibly because the uselessness of the commando vs hawks.
Commando worked quite well in 3/4 of my rounds, which is good enough for me. However, another card that you guys tend to eschew is Staggershock. Against aggro, staggershock functions as either two shocks, or a shock and a silence, since no moron would put out a x/2 while a staggershock is waiting to rebound. Against control, it becomes a countering fiasco, given all the copies flying around, and all the "cast" triggers. Additionally, casting staggershock with a copy in the graveyard is two pyromancer counters, since rebound uses "cast."
I hope some of this information helped you guys asking about commando, or any other questions about the deck. My final remark is to simply try out commando and/or staggershock, you'll be pleasantly surprised.
I'd post my decklist, but it's very similar to Terrapin's and Fux' lists.
Very cool. Even more reason to run the commando. Good to have you on the forum, SassaFrassa :). I think im going to have to run it. Still, from what testing i've done the gitixian probe has proved amazing. Its free when you don't have U up, the same cost as preordain when you do, you get to see your opponent's hand to check for a counter, and it draws a card. when you have PA online, it is card advantage for 0 mana. srsly. But what to take out for it?
In my list, I would replace 4x See Beyond with 4x Probe. It really depends on what you plan to play. Personally, I would never, ever touch the burn package of 4x bolt and burst, and the 4x preordain, 3x roil. Overall, this deck likes to shift to lower CMC and instants over sorceries.
Firewalkers are rough, I'll be including a singleton Dismember in my SB post-NPH for him, and others, ofc. I've beaten 2 resolved KFW, as well as 2 resolved PCrusader before, but in the Infect match I drew all 3 Into The Roil and had 2 live Commandos lol.
I'm thinking See Beyond as well, both gain 1 card, and both gain a bit of extra information. Sure, if you've got a spare land in hand, or an extra commando or w/e, See Beyond is basically +2, but the Probe seems more effecient. I really don't like Scrying a bunch of lands to the bottom mid-game only to have them shuffled back in via See Beyond.
@Vacant: My only immediate recommendation is Mana Leak over Spell Pierce for things like that Kor Firewalker, as well as other random threats when your burn can't hand the early Abyssal Persecutor or whatever might be floating around locally. If you expect all RDW/Valakut/CawBlade/RUG, then Spell Pierce is fine, but against anything that isn't an SCG open, I recommend Leak.
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Alright, so now that I have the various HTML nuances worked out for this forum, here's my decklist. I feel pretty good about my maindeck, but the sideboard has always been an issue. I'll be putting in 4 Exarch, 4 Splinter Twin, and 1-2 Dismembers post NPH.
I find it funny how similar my deck ended up to the general consensus from this thread, given I didn't read any of this until recently.
Oh no, I know it's potential, I think man-lands were the only one that didn't really cross my mind. Not to mention how sick it is with live PA, it just slays dudes.
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I feel the manland killability is the most important part for it to me. I almost always lose to manlands once the other person figures out that it's nigh-impossible for me to kill their collonade, wildwood, or ravine. S. Seas and Tec Edge sorta work against this, but there has to be a better alternative. Regress? Unsummon?
Spreading Seas on SB serves as both manland killer and Valakut hoser (in a way). I think you could try 3-4 slots on SB if manlands are so hard to deal with.
The inherent problem with using Neurok commando like that is that you are almost negating your card draw by using cards to make sure the commando gets damage through.
Well, sort of. You are ensuring that you maintain an advantageous board position, which is something that you were going to have to do anyway if you wanted to win. PA isn't a combo deck that has a one-turn kill anymore. Also, you forced your opponent to spend mana inefficiently, which is important.
Jace Beleren you play, draw a card, and are +1 in CA.
You would be even CA, since you had to cast Jace to draw the card. All he did was replace himself. You need to draw 2 cards with Jace to be +1 CA.
If you play a commando, then have to bolt a blocker to draw a card, all you've really done is shocked the opponent.
Except it's a Shock with Buyback 0, which would be an insanely good card if it existed.
I feel the manland killability is the most important part for it to me. I almost always lose to manlands once the other person figures out that it's nigh-impossible for me to kill their collonade, wildwood, or ravine. S. Seas and Tec Edge sorta work against this, but there has to be a better alternative. Regress? Unsummon?
Spreading Seas is a solid card, but personally I have been feeling pretty good about going up to 24 lands and 4 Tech Edges. Unsummon is actually some very cool tech vs. Manlands (and Gideon), since you basically just Time Walked them... I do like the idea of that Phyrexian Unsummon, possibly as part of a Kiln Fiend board plan.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
this list is tested a little bit, 21 lands seems kinda low but I kept getting mana flooded and need more card draw, and tezz's gambit seems to be a good one of.
I was also thinking about using the sideboard to do an "aggro" transformation. I'm not sure if that would work, but it would be funny to run something like that into a control deck once they side out all of their removal.
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Going to be taking a break from ascension while working on caged sun decks. Well until the baddies leave the thread.
After testing I realized that the splinter twin combo was pretty necessary for us to beat valakut. All you who are cutting see beyond//treasure hunt for glitaxion probe are terrible.
Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
Going to be taking a break from ascension while working on caged sun decks. Well until the baddies leave the thread.
After testing I realized that the splinter twin combo was pretty necessary for us to beat valakut. All you who are cutting see beyond//treasure hunt for glitaxion probe are terrible.
wow don't you come off as a real @-hole.
I would agree not to cut see beyond/treasure hunt for glitaxion probe, because this deck needs all of the draws and cantrips it can get. I cut call to minds and something else for mine
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Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
T-A-W does know what he's talking about, so don't be pissed about what he said, lol.
I agree See Beyond is probably still better, but Probe still deserves slots, imo. Just have no idea where, so I'll just have to try it in a few places.
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I don't really think the combo is that good maindeck. G1 most decks CAN deal with it, but fold to it game 2. I'd rather have the best chance available to win G1, as G2 and G3 are certainly going to be harder.
Pro tip: If you want to REALLY psyche your opponent out, wait until G3 to board the combo in, as they'll anticipate it G2 and likely board in dead cards which will give you a better shot at G2 without boarding. Just shuffle your sideboard in, then pull it out.
Edit: I know it seems a little cheap, but the rules allow it. As such, I'll have my poker face on :|
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I'm not complaining if a Red player throws all their burn at the exarch haha
Also, how do you guys think this deck will respond to that Phyrexian 1/1 that eats counters? It's obvious the first one will die to removal, but they can cast it later with mana open to eat all the counters from PA.
My old nickname was lockheart87.
If you've ever played permission control or counter-burn before, the issue is that the deck runs out of gas in the middle turns. You can only 1:1 trade for so long until you run out of cards, and our topdecks aren't that strong. Neurok Commando doesn't need evasion, since we have 4+ counters and 8+ burn spells to clear the way. He basically comes in and does what Jace Beleren was doing except more efficiently.
I would suggest googling an old Forbidian decklist to get a sense of what we're trying to accomplish.
The inherent problem with using Neurok commando like that is that you are almost negating your card draw by using cards to make sure the commando gets damage through. Jace Beleren you play, draw a card, and are +1 in CA. If you play a commando, then have to bolt a blocker to draw a card, all you've really done is shocked the opponent.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9733836#post9733836
neurok commando[/CARD] will never be good in t2 lol. comes down on t3....is only a 2/1. so wont have affect until t4 (hint: play jace) where squadren hawk just blocks him...cool story.
and you provided an example of why its bad it was in an "old" decklist from ages ago. and you cant burn away squadren hawk unless you have ascension running and even then thats bad.
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I understand why people dislike the card at first glance, it doesn't look that good on paper. The reasoning behind playing it is that this deck (straight ascension, not splinter twin) wins by playing spells. You play spells, they go in the graveyard, you play more of the same spells, your spells are now doubled and you win by playing more of the same spells - this is the core idea of Pyromancer Ascension decks. Now, In most versions of the deck these 'spells' are either burn spells or counterspells, both of which try to keep the board clear of threats in the early game. Commando allows you to benefit from continuing this board clearance into the middle of the game, where usually you would have to start aiming your spells at your opponent's face if you don't want to run out of gas. I'm not sure how well I've explained this but the main idea behind playing Neuromancer is that he gives you cards for playing your other cards.
I should mention that I played Pyromancer Ascension in a PTQ recently (went 4-2) with a list that ran 3 mini Jaces, playsets of Trap and Snare maindeck and no maindecked Commandos. The card does not work by itself to generate CA like Jace does, but within the shell of burn heavy ascension list it functions in a similar way but with a higher risk and higher reward (I sided them in with the rest of my burn every time).
This man speaks the truth. The question becomes, do you want to be attacking or defending? Both are valid strategies in a Pyromancer list. If you want to be attacking, play Commando. If you want to defend and sit behind counterspells, play Jace. Here's my PTQ list as a demonstration of the latter:
4 Spell Pierce
4 Mana Leak
4 See Beyond
4 Trapmaker's Snare
2 Jace Beleren
4 Archive Trap
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Pyromancer Ascension
Land
1 Halimar Depths
9 Island
8 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarns
2 Neurok COmmando
1 Corrupted Conscience
1 Ravenous Trap
3 Kiln Fiend
4 Pyroclasm
4 Staggershock
This is pre NPH obviously and although I'm playing standard at FNM this week I wouldn't play the list again. I did well with it at the time (I lost 1 of my games to mono-green and the other because of play errors) because the people weren't expecting it, it has a good MU against caw-blade, it punishes players running lots of fetchlands (the trick was not losing the first round and playing against more budget decks :P) and sideboarding was a hilarious mind game. However, this is the list I'll be running this week.
4 Spell Pierce
4 See Beyond
3 Neurok Commando
4 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Staggershock
4 Pyromancer Ascension
5 Island
6 Mountain
3 Halimar Depths
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Mana Leak
1 Trapmaker's Snare
2 Archive Trap
4 Arc Trail
4 Kiln Fiend
Sadly, this list is for the awkward tournaments between now and release. I want to play with Gitaxian Probe soo bad
@vacantmentality: How would you change that second list with NPH added in? (for Gitixian Proble at least, i assume)
by the way, from what testing i have done online, the probe is sweet. Most PA lists should be running 3-4 unless they have a really good reason not to, IMO.
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First round, I played an honest-to-god U/W control, not caw-blade. In game 1, turn three, I dropped the commando, and he then had to read the card, despite having been playing for a long time. This was a sign of things to come in the match, as he had no means of stopping it, and throughout my 2-0 sweep, commandos dealt at least 20 damage and drew at least 10 cards. Overall, matches against control tend to work in a similar way: catch them without blue and play a pyromancer, then catch them again without blue and burn for lethal. In this case, add in another blue-less turn to put down the commando.
Second round was against some homebrew Glissa deck that killed its last opponent with infinite life loss. Against me, he wasn't so lucky, as it turns out exsanguinate is very easy to mana leak, and every creature was 3 or less toughness.
Third round was against grixis Tezzeret. In the first game, I literally never cast a PA, dealing 8 with the commando, and 12 with all the burn he drew for me. That is a very ideal first match, since he had no idea I even had PA in the deck, suspecting I was playing some sort of counterburn. The next match a PA went active, and that was that.
The fourth round was my only loss, but it was a very exciting game. I was against a G/W cawblade deck that went the squadron hawk/mystic route, but also genesis wave, emeria angel, and avenger of zendikar. First game, I killed both a birds of paradise and lotus cobra before they could untap, fatally slowing their deck. The next two games were battles of pyroclasm vs firewalker, each utterly crippling the other's deck. In the end, I lost this round 1-2, possibly because the uselessness of the commando vs hawks.
Commando worked quite well in 3/4 of my rounds, which is good enough for me. However, another card that you guys tend to eschew is Staggershock. Against aggro, staggershock functions as either two shocks, or a shock and a silence, since no moron would put out a x/2 while a staggershock is waiting to rebound. Against control, it becomes a countering fiasco, given all the copies flying around, and all the "cast" triggers. Additionally, casting staggershock with a copy in the graveyard is two pyromancer counters, since rebound uses "cast."
I hope some of this information helped you guys asking about commando, or any other questions about the deck. My final remark is to simply try out commando and/or staggershock, you'll be pleasantly surprised.
I'd post my decklist, but it's very similar to Terrapin's and Fux' lists.
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In my list, I would replace 4x See Beyond with 4x Probe. It really depends on what you plan to play. Personally, I would never, ever touch the burn package of 4x bolt and burst, and the 4x preordain, 3x roil. Overall, this deck likes to shift to lower CMC and instants over sorceries.
I'm thinking See Beyond as well, both gain 1 card, and both gain a bit of extra information. Sure, if you've got a spare land in hand, or an extra commando or w/e, See Beyond is basically +2, but the Probe seems more effecient. I really don't like Scrying a bunch of lands to the bottom mid-game only to have them shuffled back in via See Beyond.
@Vacant: My only immediate recommendation is Mana Leak over Spell Pierce for things like that Kor Firewalker, as well as other random threats when your burn can't hand the early Abyssal Persecutor or whatever might be floating around locally. If you expect all RDW/Valakut/CawBlade/RUG, then Spell Pierce is fine, but against anything that isn't an SCG open, I recommend Leak.
I find it funny how similar my deck ended up to the general consensus from this thread, given I didn't read any of this until recently.
4 Neurok Commando
Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
4 Staggershock
4 Mana Leak
3 Into the Roil
Sorceries
4 Preordain
4 See Beyond
2 Call to Mind
4 Pyromancer Ascension
Land
9 Mountain
8 Island
2 Halimar Depths
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Koth of the Hammer
2 Volition Reins
2 Slagstorm
3 Pyroclasm
3 Negate
4 Spreading Seas
@Terrapin: You're selling Dismember short, I think. It also hits Baneslayer, Obliterator, Phyrexian Crusader, Exarch, and every manland.
My old nickname was lockheart87.
Well, sort of. You are ensuring that you maintain an advantageous board position, which is something that you were going to have to do anyway if you wanted to win. PA isn't a combo deck that has a one-turn kill anymore. Also, you forced your opponent to spend mana inefficiently, which is important.
You would be even CA, since you had to cast Jace to draw the card. All he did was replace himself. You need to draw 2 cards with Jace to be +1 CA.
Except it's a Shock with Buyback 0, which would be an insanely good card if it existed.
Spreading Seas is a solid card, but personally I have been feeling pretty good about going up to 24 lands and 4 Tech Edges. Unsummon is actually some very cool tech vs. Manlands (and Gideon), since you basically just Time Walked them... I do like the idea of that Phyrexian Unsummon, possibly as part of a Kiln Fiend board plan.
4 Preordain
4 mana leak
4 See Beyond
4 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Staggershock
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 gitaxian probe
3 into the roil
3 jace beleren
1 tezzeret's gambit
7 Island
7 Mountain
3 Halimar Depths
4 Scalding Tarn
4 arc trail
3 spell pierce
3 neurok commando
4 shatter
1 into the roil
I was also thinking about using the sideboard to do an "aggro" transformation. I'm not sure if that would work, but it would be funny to run something like that into a control deck once they side out all of their removal.
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After testing I realized that the splinter twin combo was pretty necessary for us to beat valakut. All you who are cutting see beyond//treasure hunt for glitaxion probe are terrible.
wow don't you come off as a real @-hole.
I would agree not to cut see beyond/treasure hunt for glitaxion probe, because this deck needs all of the draws and cantrips it can get. I cut call to minds and something else for mine
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I agree See Beyond is probably still better, but Probe still deserves slots, imo. Just have no idea where, so I'll just have to try it in a few places.