Hmm... the Boros deck posted above does seem like an interesting take on this deck. I do have some complaints on the SB choices (Strata Scythe being the big one here,) but it does look solid. People do have to remember we do have 3 spots in the MB that are basically flex spots. Considering that this is the case, the addition of lightning bolt should not effect things too much. Personally if I were to make a change I would consider the following:
Reasons for changes:
I would drop the evolving wilds due to the fact that CIBT is slower than the 8 fetches you already have. The Stoneforge Mystics are pretty useless when you don't have an outfitter to go with them, and you have enough Adventuring Gears in your deck to not have to worry about fishing them up. As for the additions, I feel the Kor Skyfishers can act as your other "fetches" by bouncing a land, and they also add to the Quest. You can also choose to bounce a 0-drop to accelerate your quest even faster. The +1 Lightning Bolt is just a suggestion and personal preference, but I see no reason NOT to run 4 bolts in the Main if you are running bolts. The ornithopter is also a preference as it gives an extra glint hawk/skyfisher target. If these feel uneasy you could also make the Lightning Bolt/Ornithopter two Kor Duelists. The math as to why is in an earlier post of mine.
Was talking to friend about this Deck for awhile he never built it so decided I finilly would...I've been debating between splashing blue for counter spells & Riddle Smiths (a way to feed threw the deck) or Maybe Green? For River Boas & the 1 mana Green spell that makes your creature indestructible.
Hmm... the Boros deck posted above does seem like an interesting take on this deck. I do have some complaints on the SB choices (Strata Scythe being the big one here,) but it does look solid. People do have to remember we do have 3 spots in the MB that are basically flex spots. Considering that this is the case, the addition of lightning bolt should not effect things too much. Personally if I were to make a change I would consider the following:
Reasons for changes:
I would drop the evolving wilds due to the fact that CIBT is slower than the 8 fetches you already have. The Stoneforge Mystics are pretty useless when you don't have an outfitter to go with them, and you have enough Adventuring Gears in your deck to not have to worry about fishing them up. As for the additions, I feel the Kor Skyfishers can act as your other "fetches" by bouncing a land, and they also add to the Quest. You can also choose to bounce a 0-drop to accelerate your quest even faster. The +1 Lightning Bolt is just a suggestion and personal preference, but I see no reason NOT to run 4 bolts in the Main if you are running bolts. The ornithopter is also a preference as it gives an extra glint hawk/skyfisher target. If these feel uneasy you could also make the Lightning Bolt/Ornithopter two Kor Duelists. The math as to why is in an earlier post of mine.
the changes you suggested seem to be mostly good, but cutting to 20 lands seems bad. as for strata scythe, with valakut being huge in my meta, exiling a mountain to it is awesome. taking out stoneforge makes sense, i think i'll do that. as for bolt, it really isn't too important outside of aggro matchups, but it's mained as a precaution. for control it comes out for kemba. wilds are a must, so I have 8 R/W fetches, and more double landfall triggers. skyfisher seems good. I think that's what i put in instead of stoneforge.
thanks for the suggestions, I think that working on this deck could get it to the next level.
so it might just be me but i think we need to start a sub thread for the deck list that are running a splash in it that be blue, red, green, or even black (who knows?)... to me it just seems like all the splashes are going to completely different directions from the WW relic build... i mean sure they use relic in it still but with red for example it is leaning more towards the red thing with burn and is using that with the other creatures it has subbed in for the win and not worrying about the relic and equip as much. as for blue it is taking out creatures and other spells for counters and the trinket mage toolbox. with green is it running with what green does, ramp. to me it just seems like all these list are in a different level then with the WW relic build. the splashes just seem to take away to much from the WW relic build to still work in the same way that WW relic does and slows them down and does more harm then good. i think we need to separate them out and find out which way they should go if its not just white then it should be in a different part of the forum then just the white builds there just on opposite ends of the spectrum.
First off, I'll save you the loooong explanation I posted many pages back about removal. Next, the deck.
3 Trusty Machete is a bit much. If you can't run fetches and Adventuring Gear, throw a Sword of Vengeance or a Strata Scythe in there. But you should get fetches for optimum performance. Get rid of the Braves and Journeys and add Kor Duelists (with fetches) or Students of Warfare. Condemn in the sideboard is close to useless with this kind of deck.
I'll be anxiously awaiting FNM results all, since I have numerous friends trying to talk me out of playing this deck!
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First off, I'll save you the loooong explanation I posted many pages back about removal. Next, the deck.
3 Trusty Machete is a bit much. If you can't run fetches and Adventuring Gear, throw a Sword of Vengeance or a Strata Scythe in there. But you should get fetches for optimum performance. Get rid of the Braves and Journeys and add Kor Duelists (with fetches) or Students of Warfare. Condemn in the sideboard is close to useless with this kind of deck.
I'll be anxiously awaiting FNM results all, since I have numerous friends trying to talk me out of playing this deck!
I own the fetches, I just really dislike adventuring gear as a card. Once I removed Adventuring Gear, fetches stopped making sense. It never seems to work out for me. Kor Duelist seemed underwhelming. Maybe I am playing the deck wrong or something... I'll try testing the original build some more.
I tested the deck at my local store just 4 rounds top 8, my findings are
I played the mirror twice, a normal white weenie , u/w control and valaramp
i had a though time with the mirror , sword of BnM completely wrecked me every game, he didnt run the gear or the cheap machete , which i find is very smart, cause ya you can get in early pressure with the crap equips, but BnM gives us a little edge into late game if our quest doesn't get there, trust me this card is broken, some decks are running emeria the sky ruin, bad idea, by the time it gets active you should be dead anyway. and war priest was amazing post board.
vala was just a race against the clock, lost first game, sided in the leonin arbiter and it set vala so far behind , and my flyers just got there both games
control was tuff, i got turn one quest both games, and got the armor out really quick , but to only get condemed or into the roiled, it was a downer, but both game i got amazing top decks with outfitter and just reattached it for game. i tested luminarch assension , not worth it , take too long to get online and by then it was too late.
white weenie is just a race, and they cant deal with flyers early and thats how i got there,
so the main problem is extending into late game when we dont get a quest or nut draws, and we cant really put sun titan or anything in here, but i think that taking out duelist for student of warfare can help alot. i will post more later but idk how to tag cards or anything, if someone wants to teach me
Silence has helped me out tremendously against several decks, such as G/U/R, and Emeria, the Sky Ruin is just a house ( I feel this card is wicked underrated). I wanted to test with Indomitable Archangel, but there is absolutely nothing I want to take out to put them in.
Oh, and this was one of the decks that top 8'ed at States, but I changed a bunch of cards because I like to try new things.
Edit- @ThudSlug: I obviously disagree that Emeria is a bad idea. I run it, and it actually does help if you have to get to a late game ( obviously you don't want to with this deck, but it happens sometimes, especially playing control decks). If you haven't already, I truly do recommend trying it out. You may change your mind about it.
Was talking to friend about this Deck for awhile he never built it so decided I finilly would...I've been debating between splashing blue for counter spells & Riddle Smiths (a way to feed threw the deck) or Maybe Green? For River Boas & the 1 mana Green spell that makes your creature indestructible.
IMHO if you are going to splash a color blue is the safest, because blue allows you to not only protect your creatures but also the equipment once its out... Also I would Play Augury Owl over Riddlesmith because Riddlesmith needs another artifact spell to be on any use... The Owl on the other hand gets the job done once it resolves... You don't get to draw the card until next turn but you are less likely to draw jank after the Scry 3... But thats my opinion
Blue might be the safest, but I think green is the strongest. Fauna Shaman helps this deck a lot, and has great synergy with a bunch of our other cards.
This deck really is balls-to-the-walls and doesn't have room for a safety net. If blue is splashed, I think the deck needs a complete re-working so that it drops the quest and five creatures in 1 turn as a kill, while controlling the board until it can do so. Just my thoughts
Garbage for constructed, costs way too much mana and can't even deal with walkers.
To sum it up. Creature removal doesn't take care of Plainswalkers...how am I to respond to a statment like that? It's like somebody saying division symbols suck at simple addition.
The reason i run it this way, is because i like the ability of this deck to rush the opponent. It doesn't even need the quest. Just keep attacking early and aggressive and when that fails, rely on cunning sparkmage/Basilisk collar combo to seal the deal.
As a side note this deck can equip Argentum armor turn 1 as long as you are on the draw:
Play a plains, then quest, then two 0 mana artifact creatures, then play mox opal, then to more artifact creatures or glint hawks (glint hawks are free with mox opal.) then use the mox opal to play a goblin guide. As the fifth creature it will set off quest, equip it to your man with haste, GG, and then win the game. A perfect 8 card hand, but it is fun to dream.
Anyone have any thoughts they would like to share? I think the Insanely low land count makes this deck risky, but good.
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Fire and Lightning have no mercy. Even those who use them are awed by their power.
Squadron Hawk is budget, and not very good. It is inevitability with Quest, but it is slow. Not what this deck wants to do.
Duelist is sometimes underwhelming. But there are times he just wins. Think Adventuring Gear and an open board like you would get vs Valakut or Control.
I can't see why you'd run splash anything. What does it get you that white doesn't have? Oh, protection.. F! That, race them. Brave or Emerge Unscathed does just fine.
Removal is SB material. I had it main, moved it side to add Duelist. And I haven't missed it as I just rely harder on Armor or Collar, if I'm running Collar.
Sword of Vengengce is AMAZING. That said, I woul donly FNM it. It is so sick with Collar as well, that is why when anyone cuts Mystic I think they're dumb. Judgmental, but my opinion.
I can't say enough how much I love Ascensions in the board, but I face different decks than other ppl. If you expect the mirror, run Warpriest. I used to have Kor Sanctifiers for an open meta. They were HILARIOUS vs regular WW. As long as I kep tthem from having Collar, I won easy.
Finally, this deck is such a great deck and budget that I would not be surprised to see it 4+ times in a 20 deep FNM. Just like we had a Soul Sisters infestation of terrible budget version, expect mirror. Outplay them. Aggressively mull for Turn 1 Quest with triggering creatures.
Depending on your FNM meta, examine the Budget lists from States and prepare for them. Currently I'm ready for only 1 Eldrazi player in a 12-18 person FNM. Our ppl will not shell money for Titans. BUt I'm also ready for 2+ Elves, 1-3 Vampires, 2-5 WW variants (mirror included), 1-3 Goblins/Red Deck, and U/x Control. That is a vary filled out SB. I would probably try this:
4x Journey
4x Revoke Existence
3x Arbiter
3x Warpriest
1x Sword of Vengence (I'd have 1x Collar main)
It doesn't have AScension, I'm saddened, but I'm more prepared vs the aggro field I WILL face.
Meta your board, find out if you need Fetchs/Gear, and play aggresively (not cute tricks).
I agree with most everything you said, good post. However, I don't think armored ascension deserves to get anywhere near this deck, personally. You should have the game locked down by about turn 5 (which is when you should be able to play that card), and you always have better things to do ( Focus on getting amour either via mystic or quest).
I'm curious: Do you guys consider this a veritable "competitive" or tier 1.5 deck?
I haven't had a lot of time to test yet, but in theory I agree with Knuckles about splash and hawks. 2 for a 1/1 flyer is slow for this deck. Doing it 4 times is still slow, even if it does net you CA. My personal pet addition to the deck is Nim Deathmantle for CA though, so that kind of fills in for it. As for splash, I think going all out white gives you more advantages than splashing does. Single color lets you not worry about WW casting costs, and lets you run low land count without needing to worry about getting the right land.
I'm still really conflicted on what to run sideboard. I feel like blinding mage might be a solid addition, as it can slow down creature based ramp, Titans and Eldrazi. And it's a creature, so it can double as an equip target. Being more removable than Journey hurts though. Not sure how else to handle a creature ramp deck. Oust maybe?
Need to do more playtesting to get a feel for the deck, but I'm wondering if going light allies could be valid. 4 Hada Freeblade and 4 Kazandu Blademasters gives you a pretty fair shot of dropping more than one ally a game, and you have the skyfisher to recast the Freeblade. And Blademaster is solid all by himself. I feel like the vigilance is especially relevant when racing another agro deck.
I really don't like Stoneforge Mystic and Kor Outfitter. With Trusty Machete you can get some early game beat in, but there are a lot of times you don't want to topdeck the those three pieces. I was never disappointed to draw something here.
I mostly ran with the expectation that the creature equipped with the Armor would get destroyed/exiled. I ran heavy land to almost guarantee to re-attach Armor on turn 6 or 7, plus Sun Titan.
I really like Ajani Goldmane maindeck as an alternate wincon. It lets you run with hands like 3x land, 1x Ajani, 1x Squadron Hawk. You have so many fliers that it's hard for other decks to swat them all down before they're 3 toughness. I do need to playtest heavily against Red Deck Wins to see if Kor Firewalker is resilient enough.
Squadron Hawk is an all-star! Works with quest, generates creature advantage, thins your deck, works with Ajani. I consider it essential. Plus, everyone sighs a little when you cast it.
I played against a mirror running the Stoneforge combo. Exiling their quest on turn two is almost good game. I also beat him once without the quest due to lots of beefy flyers alpha striking.
Replacements? Sun Titan probably doesn't belong here. He's too expensive, and too little, too late. He always got sided out for removal because he's too slow against all the super fast standard decks these days. Journey to Nowhere could replace Condemn, but it's incredibly satisfying to Condemn an attacking Elvish Archdruid, or Bloodghast, or flyer with equipment. My jury is still out on Condemn. I could probably run with 23 or 22 lands, but I need to test.
i'm amazed a green splash isn't automatic here. this deck gains a lot from running carapace forger and of course stirring wildwood. maybe something like this:
I'm curious: Do you guys consider this a veritable "competitive" or tier 1.5 deck?
I'd say yes, this week only. If UR takes off (be it UR control or UR Pyromancer's Ascension, or something like a blend of both), I'm dropping this list like a hot grenade.
I like Quest, but I'm pretty sure it just scoops to UR.
I find Stoneforge to be an absolute essential on game 1 simply because she can help stabilize an otherwise questionable game 1. I am having trouble deciding what to side out afterwards though. Sometimes i just get overwhelmed with thought and leave it the same. However everytime i've left my main board static i still managed to squeeze out the win. Which is another thing i find amazing with this deck.
God i love Knuckles' posts. I also believe that Squadron Hawks are far slower than some people would admit.
I agree that the Hawks are slow, but I also think they're a necessary evil. With DoJ, Pyroclasm, etc. in the meta, you need them to recover from wipes, and if you do get stalled out (say, by all the Into the Roil that's going around) you need them to turn on mid/late game quests. Otherwise Quest really is the worst topdeck in the format and you'll cry every time you rip one.
Not running Squadron Hawk, Kor Outfitter, or Mystic is crazy, in my humble opinion. Squadron Hawk, while it may not be the biggest fattie out there, gives you the ability to constantly be able to swing with a flyer every turn and thins out your deck. And I am sorry, but being able to push out an Argentum Armor turn four is wicked, and you aren't doing that without Outfitter+Mystic. I personally would not play this deck if these three cards were not in it.
Turn four Mystic And outfitter into argentum is more than possible
T2 Mystic Fetch armor
T3 Play Armor EoT with Mystic
T4 Strap Argentum with Outfitter
These is not at all the most ideal play but there will be situations where this will be the best play.
Thinning out your deck of creatures, if you really want to do it for thinning out increases your chances of drawing cards that aren't Hawk.... Namely a plains or something just as undesirable.
Only thing i find redeeming about hawk is that its a creature.......................... which is truly the only relevance it has for this deck, be it for better or worse.
I honestly have little clue how i am going to do this..... IDK much about sideboarding simply cause i am much more comfortable with the Main Deck.
As far as your equipment package goes, why 1 trusty machete and 1 adventuring gear? Seems like you should be running 2 of one or the other. Also, I feel like 6 is a good number if you're running 4 mystics. If you draw an equipment, 2 mystics and a skyfisher I don't want to run out of relevant equipment to fetch.
As for sideboard, I'm having the same problem. Pretty much everything in the deck has a reason, and not much of it is reactive. Leaves very little room to remove stuff post board.
I played against some U/R Destructive Force deck round 1. I won easily, I think my opponent had pretty bad draws. He played D-force in the second game, he was at 3 and I played Memnite next turn and went all the way. 2-0
Round 2
I played a G/W ramp deck whose main focus was to ramp into Admonition Angel or Iona, Shield of Emeria or play Summoning Trap to cheat them into play. Well this round was much closer, I won the first game with Argentum Armor. Second game he played 2 Baneslayers and won soon thereafter. Third game was awfully close, He played Iona naming....WHITE!!!!!11! I had Argentum Armor in my hand and Sword of Body and Mind out with a good number of creatures, eventually I was able to cast the armor, but next turn he summoning trapped into Admonition Angel with 2 fetches on the field. gg 1-2 (This deck was the reason I had the 2 Leonin Arbiter main, which I did cast but wasn't that helpful in the end.)
Round 3
I played against Elves! I won first game by getting Quest online by turn 4. Second game he mulled down to 5 and was slow to start and I just overran him. 2-0
Round 4
I played against U/B control. First game I saw some Doom blades and countersells and that was about it. Squadron Hawk and Trusty Machete ftw. Second game was closer, He played 2 Disfigure, 2 Doom blade, and countered some stuff, I hardcasted Armor twice because he bounced it back into my hand with Into the Roil which gave him a few turns but I was able to get there with Kor Duelist equipped with SwordoBaM, Argentum Armor, and Sylvok Lifestaff. 2-0
All in all I really like the deck and I think I'll be playing it for a while.
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-4 Evolving wilds
-2 Stoneforge Mystic
+1 Mountain or plains
+3 Kor Skyfisher
+1 Lightning Bolt
+1 Ornithopter
Reasons for changes:
I would drop the evolving wilds due to the fact that CIBT is slower than the 8 fetches you already have. The Stoneforge Mystics are pretty useless when you don't have an outfitter to go with them, and you have enough Adventuring Gears in your deck to not have to worry about fishing them up. As for the additions, I feel the Kor Skyfishers can act as your other "fetches" by bouncing a land, and they also add to the Quest. You can also choose to bounce a 0-drop to accelerate your quest even faster. The +1 Lightning Bolt is just a suggestion and personal preference, but I see no reason NOT to run 4 bolts in the Main if you are running bolts. The ornithopter is also a preference as it gives an extra glint hawk/skyfisher target. If these feel uneasy you could also make the Lightning Bolt/Ornithopter two Kor Duelists. The math as to why is in an earlier post of mine.
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the changes you suggested seem to be mostly good, but cutting to 20 lands seems bad. as for strata scythe, with valakut being huge in my meta, exiling a mountain to it is awesome. taking out stoneforge makes sense, i think i'll do that. as for bolt, it really isn't too important outside of aggro matchups, but it's mained as a precaution. for control it comes out for kemba. wilds are a must, so I have 8 R/W fetches, and more double landfall triggers. skyfisher seems good. I think that's what i put in instead of stoneforge.
thanks for the suggestions, I think that working on this deck could get it to the next level.
Standard:
UBU/B TezzeretBU
WWW QuestW
RMetal GoblinsR
Legacy:
UCounterTopU
thanks to DarkNightCavalier at Heros of the Plane for the sig
Also, I find the original list's lack of removal disturbing.
I've been trying this:
18 plains
4 Tectonic Edge
4 Glint Hawk
4 Kor Outfitter
4 Kor Skyfisher
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Journey to Nowhere
4 Brave the Elements
4 Quest for the Holy Relic
2 Argentum Armor
3 Trusty Machete
2 Journey to Nowhere
4 Kor Firewalker
4 Luminarch's Assension
2 Condemn
2 Revoke Existence
1 Sword of Body and Mind
Thoughts?
Sig thanks to Roflos!
First off, I'll save you the loooong explanation I posted many pages back about removal. Next, the deck.
3 Trusty Machete is a bit much. If you can't run fetches and Adventuring Gear, throw a Sword of Vengeance or a Strata Scythe in there. But you should get fetches for optimum performance. Get rid of the Braves and Journeys and add Kor Duelists (with fetches) or Students of Warfare. Condemn in the sideboard is close to useless with this kind of deck.
I'll be anxiously awaiting FNM results all, since I have numerous friends trying to talk me out of playing this deck!
I own the fetches, I just really dislike adventuring gear as a card. Once I removed Adventuring Gear, fetches stopped making sense. It never seems to work out for me. Kor Duelist seemed underwhelming. Maybe I am playing the deck wrong or something... I'll try testing the original build some more.
I played the mirror twice, a normal white weenie , u/w control and valaramp
i had a though time with the mirror , sword of BnM completely wrecked me every game, he didnt run the gear or the cheap machete , which i find is very smart, cause ya you can get in early pressure with the crap equips, but BnM gives us a little edge into late game if our quest doesn't get there, trust me this card is broken, some decks are running emeria the sky ruin, bad idea, by the time it gets active you should be dead anyway. and war priest was amazing post board.
vala was just a race against the clock, lost first game, sided in the leonin arbiter and it set vala so far behind , and my flyers just got there both games
control was tuff, i got turn one quest both games, and got the armor out really quick , but to only get condemed or into the roiled, it was a downer, but both game i got amazing top decks with outfitter and just reattached it for game. i tested luminarch assension , not worth it , take too long to get online and by then it was too late.
white weenie is just a race, and they cant deal with flyers early and thats how i got there,
so the main problem is extending into late game when we dont get a quest or nut draws, and we cant really put sun titan or anything in here, but i think that taking out duelist for student of warfare can help alot. i will post more later but idk how to tag cards or anything, if someone wants to teach me
Creatures-31
4x Glint Hawk
4 x Kor Skyfisher
4 x Kor Outfitter
4x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x Squadron Hawk
3x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Student of Warfare
Non-creature Artifacts-5
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Sword of Vengeance
1x Trusty Machete
2x Argentum Armor
Spells-4
4x Quest for the Holy Relic
Land-20
17x Plains
1x Emeria, the Sky Ruin
2x Dread Statuary
Sideboard-15
4x Kor Firewalker
3x Luminarch Ascension
1x Sword of Body and Mind
3x War Priest of Thune
4x Silence
Silence has helped me out tremendously against several decks, such as G/U/R, and Emeria, the Sky Ruin is just a house ( I feel this card is wicked underrated). I wanted to test with Indomitable Archangel, but there is absolutely nothing I want to take out to put them in.
Oh, and this was one of the decks that top 8'ed at States, but I changed a bunch of cards because I like to try new things.
Edit- @ThudSlug: I obviously disagree that Emeria is a bad idea. I run it, and it actually does help if you have to get to a late game ( obviously you don't want to with this deck, but it happens sometimes, especially playing control decks). If you haven't already, I truly do recommend trying it out. You may change your mind about it.
my trade thread:http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=327326
I want to thank R&Doom for my signature. Thanks a lot!
IMHO if you are going to splash a color blue is the safest, because blue allows you to not only protect your creatures but also the equipment once its out... Also I would Play Augury Owl over Riddlesmith because Riddlesmith needs another artifact spell to be on any use... The Owl on the other hand gets the job done once it resolves... You don't get to draw the card until next turn but you are less likely to draw jank after the Scry 3... But thats my opinion
T2
Commander
WGCaptain SisayWG
This deck really is balls-to-the-walls and doesn't have room for a safety net. If blue is splashed, I think the deck needs a complete re-working so that it drops the quest and five creatures in 1 turn as a kill, while controlling the board until it can do so. Just my thoughts
Rogue players for the win!
The reason i run it this way, is because i like the ability of this deck to rush the opponent. It doesn't even need the quest. Just keep attacking early and aggressive and when that fails, rely on cunning sparkmage/Basilisk collar combo to seal the deal.
As a side note this deck can equip Argentum armor turn 1 as long as you are on the draw:
Play a plains, then quest, then two 0 mana artifact creatures, then play mox opal, then to more artifact creatures or glint hawks (glint hawks are free with mox opal.) then use the mox opal to play a goblin guide. As the fifth creature it will set off quest, equip it to your man with haste, GG, and then win the game. A perfect 8 card hand, but it is fun to dream.
Anyone have any thoughts they would like to share? I think the Insanely low land count makes this deck risky, but good.
Squadron Hawk is budget, and not very good. It is inevitability with Quest, but it is slow. Not what this deck wants to do.
Duelist is sometimes underwhelming. But there are times he just wins. Think Adventuring Gear and an open board like you would get vs Valakut or Control.
I can't see why you'd run splash anything. What does it get you that white doesn't have? Oh, protection.. F! That, race them. Brave or Emerge Unscathed does just fine.
Removal is SB material. I had it main, moved it side to add Duelist. And I haven't missed it as I just rely harder on Armor or Collar, if I'm running Collar.
Sword of Vengengce is AMAZING. That said, I woul donly FNM it. It is so sick with Collar as well, that is why when anyone cuts Mystic I think they're dumb. Judgmental, but my opinion.
I can't say enough how much I love Ascensions in the board, but I face different decks than other ppl. If you expect the mirror, run Warpriest. I used to have Kor Sanctifiers for an open meta. They were HILARIOUS vs regular WW. As long as I kep tthem from having Collar, I won easy.
Finally, this deck is such a great deck and budget that I would not be surprised to see it 4+ times in a 20 deep FNM. Just like we had a Soul Sisters infestation of terrible budget version, expect mirror. Outplay them. Aggressively mull for Turn 1 Quest with triggering creatures.
Depending on your FNM meta, examine the Budget lists from States and prepare for them. Currently I'm ready for only 1 Eldrazi player in a 12-18 person FNM. Our ppl will not shell money for Titans. BUt I'm also ready for 2+ Elves, 1-3 Vampires, 2-5 WW variants (mirror included), 1-3 Goblins/Red Deck, and U/x Control. That is a vary filled out SB. I would probably try this:
4x Journey
4x Revoke Existence
3x Arbiter
3x Warpriest
1x Sword of Vengence (I'd have 1x Collar main)
It doesn't have AScension, I'm saddened, but I'm more prepared vs the aggro field I WILL face.
Meta your board, find out if you need Fetchs/Gear, and play aggresively (not cute tricks).
My $0.02
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Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
I agree with most everything you said, good post. However, I don't think armored ascension deserves to get anywhere near this deck, personally. You should have the game locked down by about turn 5 (which is when you should be able to play that card), and you always have better things to do ( Focus on getting amour either via mystic or quest).
I'm curious: Do you guys consider this a veritable "competitive" or tier 1.5 deck?
I'm still really conflicted on what to run sideboard. I feel like blinding mage might be a solid addition, as it can slow down creature based ramp, Titans and Eldrazi. And it's a creature, so it can double as an equip target. Being more removable than Journey hurts though. Not sure how else to handle a creature ramp deck. Oust maybe?
Need to do more playtesting to get a feel for the deck, but I'm wondering if going light allies could be valid. 4 Hada Freeblade and 4 Kazandu Blademasters gives you a pretty fair shot of dropping more than one ally a game, and you have the skyfisher to recast the Freeblade. And Blademaster is solid all by himself. I feel like the vigilance is especially relevant when racing another agro deck.
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Glint Hawk
4 Kor Skyfisher
4 Squadron Hawk
2 Sun Titan
Equipment (3)
1 Sword Of Vengeance
2 Argentum Armor
3 Ajani Goldmane
Enchantments (4)
4 Quest for the Holy Relic
Spells (4)
4 Condemn
Land (24)
15 Plains
3 Marsh Flats
4 Arid Mesa
2 Emeria, The Sky Ruin
4 Kor Firewalker
4 Celestial Purge
3 Revoke Existence
3 Luminarch Ascension
1 Sword of Body and Mind
Thoughts on my list:
I really don't like Stoneforge Mystic and Kor Outfitter. With Trusty Machete you can get some early game beat in, but there are a lot of times you don't want to topdeck the those three pieces. I was never disappointed to draw something here.
I mostly ran with the expectation that the creature equipped with the Armor would get destroyed/exiled. I ran heavy land to almost guarantee to re-attach Armor on turn 6 or 7, plus Sun Titan.
I really like Ajani Goldmane maindeck as an alternate wincon. It lets you run with hands like 3x land, 1x Ajani, 1x Squadron Hawk. You have so many fliers that it's hard for other decks to swat them all down before they're 3 toughness. I do need to playtest heavily against Red Deck Wins to see if Kor Firewalker is resilient enough.
Squadron Hawk is an all-star! Works with quest, generates creature advantage, thins your deck, works with Ajani. I consider it essential. Plus, everyone sighs a little when you cast it.
I played against a mirror running the Stoneforge combo. Exiling their quest on turn two is almost good game. I also beat him once without the quest due to lots of beefy flyers alpha striking.
Replacements? Sun Titan probably doesn't belong here. He's too expensive, and too little, too late. He always got sided out for removal because he's too slow against all the super fast standard decks these days. Journey to Nowhere could replace Condemn, but it's incredibly satisfying to Condemn an attacking Elvish Archdruid, or Bloodghast, or flyer with equipment. My jury is still out on Condemn. I could probably run with 23 or 22 lands, but I need to test.
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Sunpetal Grove
10 Plains
4 carapace forger
4 memnite
4 ornithopter
4 stoneforge mystic
3 Kor Skyfisher
4 GLint Hawk
4 Etched Champion
2 Kor Duelist
2 argentum armor
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of vengeance
Sry for the OT
And is it better to keep a hand with 2 duelists an outfitter 2lands and 1 memnites and an argentum? or would you mull for something else
I'd say yes, this week only. If UR takes off (be it UR control or UR Pyromancer's Ascension, or something like a blend of both), I'm dropping this list like a hot grenade.
I like Quest, but I'm pretty sure it just scoops to UR.
Anyways, I can't decide what Equipment package i want to run. I am at 6 now but i think 6 is a bit high. So far its
Equipment
I find Stoneforge to be an absolute essential on game 1 simply because she can help stabilize an otherwise questionable game 1. I am having trouble deciding what to side out afterwards though. Sometimes i just get overwhelmed with thought and leave it the same. However everytime i've left my main board static i still managed to squeeze out the win. Which is another thing i find amazing with this deck.
This is my build currently.
4 Memnite
4 Glint Hawk
4 Ornithopter
4 Kor Duelist
4 Kor Skyfisher
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Kor Outfitter
4 Quest for the Holy Relic
3 Journey to Nowhere
Equipment - 6
1 Sword of Vengeance
2 Argentum Armor
1 Trusty Machete
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Adventuring Gear
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
12 Plains
Sideboard i will decide when im there and review the meta.
Red Deck - 4 Kor Firewalker, Kemba, Kha Regent
Land - Leonin Arbiter
Mirror - Leonin Arbiter, War Priest of Thrune
U/W - Luminarch Ascencion
I honestly have little clue how i am going to do this..... IDK much about sideboarding simply cause i am much more comfortable with the Main Deck.
PSN: Xrii
RWMystic BorosRW
GWUClassic BantGWU
I agree that the Hawks are slow, but I also think they're a necessary evil. With DoJ, Pyroclasm, etc. in the meta, you need them to recover from wipes, and if you do get stalled out (say, by all the Into the Roil that's going around) you need them to turn on mid/late game quests. Otherwise Quest really is the worst topdeck in the format and you'll cry every time you rip one.
On another note, I am intrigued by Sun Titan.
my trade thread:http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=327326
I want to thank R&Doom for my signature. Thanks a lot!
T2 Mystic Fetch armor
T3 Play Armor EoT with Mystic
T4 Strap Argentum with Outfitter
These is not at all the most ideal play but there will be situations where this will be the best play.
Thinning out your deck of creatures, if you really want to do it for thinning out increases your chances of drawing cards that aren't Hawk.... Namely a plains or something just as undesirable.
Only thing i find redeeming about hawk is that its a creature.......................... which is truly the only relevance it has for this deck, be it for better or worse.
PSN: Xrii
RWMystic BorosRW
GWUClassic BantGWU
As far as your equipment package goes, why 1 trusty machete and 1 adventuring gear? Seems like you should be running 2 of one or the other. Also, I feel like 6 is a good number if you're running 4 mystics. If you draw an equipment, 2 mystics and a skyfisher I don't want to run out of relevant equipment to fetch.
As for sideboard, I'm having the same problem. Pretty much everything in the deck has a reason, and not much of it is reactive. Leaves very little room to remove stuff post board.
4x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x Glint Hawk
4x Kor Skyfisher
4x Squadron Hawk
4x Kor Outfitter
3x Kor Duelist
2x Leonin Arbiter
1x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Quest for the Holy Relic
Equipment
1x Argentum Armor
1x Sword of Body of Mind
2x Trusty Machete
1x Sylvok Lifestaff
21x Plains
I played against some U/R Destructive Force deck round 1. I won easily, I think my opponent had pretty bad draws. He played D-force in the second game, he was at 3 and I played Memnite next turn and went all the way. 2-0
Round 2
I played a G/W ramp deck whose main focus was to ramp into Admonition Angel or Iona, Shield of Emeria or play Summoning Trap to cheat them into play. Well this round was much closer, I won the first game with Argentum Armor. Second game he played 2 Baneslayers and won soon thereafter. Third game was awfully close, He played Iona naming....WHITE!!!!!11! I had Argentum Armor in my hand and Sword of Body and Mind out with a good number of creatures, eventually I was able to cast the armor, but next turn he summoning trapped into Admonition Angel with 2 fetches on the field. gg 1-2 (This deck was the reason I had the 2 Leonin Arbiter main, which I did cast but wasn't that helpful in the end.)
Round 3
I played against Elves! I won first game by getting Quest online by turn 4. Second game he mulled down to 5 and was slow to start and I just overran him. 2-0
Round 4
I played against U/B control. First game I saw some Doom blades and countersells and that was about it. Squadron Hawk and Trusty Machete ftw. Second game was closer, He played 2 Disfigure, 2 Doom blade, and countered some stuff, I hardcasted Armor twice because he bounced it back into my hand with Into the Roil which gave him a few turns but I was able to get there with Kor Duelist equipped with SwordoBaM, Argentum Armor, and Sylvok Lifestaff. 2-0
All in all I really like the deck and I think I'll be playing it for a while.