I've played a few games against Caw. G1 feels very much like old RUG and slightly favoured (Between Jens, Garruk, Titan and Sphinx, there're way more threats than they have answer for). Granted it is weak against twin but can obviously be tweaked.
I've played a few games against Caw. G1 feels very much like old RUG and slightly favoured (Between Jens, Garruk, Titan and Sphinx, there're way more threats than they have answer for). Granted it is weak against twin but can obviously be tweaked.
I honestly think that halimar depths don't do enough to warrant the extra attention from tec edges.
Streamline your mana base. Run more basics - with solemns in there, I can't think of a good reason not to 4/4/4.
Okay, I didn't win FNM again but I still got 4th going 3-1. I lost to a Tezzeret Aggro deck. It was like Tempered Steel except instead of TS it had Mana Leaks and Tezzeret. I made one misplay that cost me the match. Still, this is the third match I've lost since May with roughly the same list. I streamlined my threats a little more. I wanted to hit Titans more often and they never failed me. I got rid of the Consecrated Sphinx because even though it's great, the deck doesn't win many games on just card advantage. It wins them through tempo off of the back of Lotus Cobra or Exarch. You can gain enough card advantage from Foresee to win you the game.
Game 1: I kill him with a turn three Inferno Titan, turn 4 Splinter Twin the Inferno Titan.
Game 2: I keep him off of green sources with Exarchs and Frost Titans.
Match 2: Vs. UB Tezzeret Aggro
Game 1: I keep a hand with two BoPs, two lands, an Inferno Titan and two Splinter Twins. I missed my land drops and the 6th land was a Raging Ravine. By then I was dead.
Game 2: I die because I he Mana Leaks an Explore and I foolishly Mana Leak back thinking I could bluff another anyway, which leaves me without a Mana Leak for his Tezzeret. He had one card left and it was a Tezzeret, which had I Mana Leak'd there was no way he could win. However, he took the risk and reaped the rewards.
Match 3: Vs. Valakut
Game 1: I combo him when he taps out.
Game 2: This game was interesting. He had a hand full of ramp and Sad Robots, but my Frost Titan and Beast Withins kept him at really awkward mana and the Frost Titan was holding down two Sad Robots by himself by just tapping the untapped out. He was one turn away from Prime Time but it wouldn't have matter'd anyway because I had a Beast Within and he had 3 mountains out, which would not have been enough to kill my Frosty and lethal Raging Ravine. This deck just rapes Valakut's face.
Match 4: Vs. GW Aggro/Midrange?
Game 1: I combo'd when he tapped out.
Game 2: I won a close game in which he had a Spellskite and some other nonsense. Frost Titan and Inferno Titan both came down and usually when you cast two Titans, it's game.
I realized that I need some Creeping Corrosions in the SB just because the deck has some problems with the Artifact Aggro decks. I don't wanna lose to that deck, ever. I lost the match due to bad play and bad sideboarding, and I don't think it's a flaw that this deck has at all, just something I wasn't particularly prepared for. Here's what the newest version looks like:
I'm so happy with this deck. Valakut is a piece of cake match-up which is definitely good. I'm confident that the Splinter Twin match-up only requires good play and light sideboarding to beat. Mono-red gets destroyed postboard. Control has a hard time dealing with the combination of Lotus Cobra AND the combo, so it can never really tap out for a threat. The only match-up I don't really wanna see is the artifact aggro decks, so I'll be testing against them in the next week. The sideboard should be good enough to pad the match-up and maybe I can hope to avoid it, hope to get lucky, and hope my sideboard is better against them. I'll be taking this deck to a PTQ in Minnesota next week.
I think the biggest problem with Pod versions is that you basically don't know what the plan is going into the game, so knowing when to mulligan is impossible in game 1. For example, you could have a Fauna/Vengevine start, but game 1 you have no idea if your opponent is playing Valakut. If you keep that hand and they are Valakut, you are going to have a hard time closing the game. Having a turn 3 Titan hand may be good against Valakut, but it's not amazing against a mono-red deck that just burns your Birds and Cobras. I think the reason it's pretty good online is because in the Daily Events you can see the opponent's previous games. In real life, that's a bit hard. Every time I play the Pod version, I feel like the plan is a bit fragile and draw dependent.
Lotus Cobra gives you a huge advantage against Control because you're getting out of Mana Leak range and can cast threats sooner than them and your threats are also better.
EDIT: I'm going to actually try Ponder in the maindeck over Foresee. It seems like whenever I Forsee, Ponder would have been just as good except it's only one mana also. The only thing I worry about is the card advantage aspect. I might also try Solemn Simulacrum in that spot as well as adding another Explore and going down a Ponder.
I love this list, but why no primeval titan? I'm thinking of making this list myself, it seems really fun :)!
I love this list, but why no primeval titan? I'm thinking of making this list myself, it seems really fun :)!
Because primeval titan does NOTHING in RUG. There's no massive spells to ramp up to, no multitudes of mountains and valakuts to win the game with - inferno titan and frost titan and consecrated sphinx and wurmcoil engine are just...a LOT better.
I have been wondering all day wether to run Splinter Twin in the SB or not. Does anyone have any experience with it? The only thing I am sure of is I don't want to run it main.
I am going to nationals in a couple of days and I barely have any time to test :S
Btw if I go the route of no Splinter Twin couldn't it be pretty cool to run 2 Deciever Exarch main and just sideboard them out after game 1? Could probably get your opponent to make some very wrong sideboard decisions and play around splinter twin every game. It isn't that bad a of card alone either, taps down a sworded bird, a titan or is just an excellent blocker against agro.
(just a stray thought I had while typing this post, it probably isn't that good, it just seemed fun)
The combo should be maindeck, no doubt about it.
Because it simply improves the deck two fold by giving it a secondary win condition to titan, and it constantly limits the moves an opponent can do.
I have been wondering all day wether to run Splinter Twin in the SB or not. Does anyone have any experience with it? The only thing I am sure of is I don't want to run it main.
I am going to nationals in a couple of days and I barely have any time to test :S
Btw if I go the route of no Splinter Twin couldn't it be pretty cool to run 2 Deciever Exarch main and just sideboard them out after game 1? Could probably get your opponent to make some very wrong sideboard decisions and play around splinter twin every game. It isn't that bad a of card alone either, taps down a sworded bird, a titan or is just an excellent blocker against agro.
(just a stray thought I had while typing this post, it probably isn't that good, it just seemed fun)
I ran a really aggro rug deck (max cmc of 4 for 4 vengevines and 3 hero of oxid ridge, goblin guides on the low end, trinket mage and memnite for vine triggers, etc) with exarch twin in the side for a few weeks. It worked pretty well because it was so aggro that people had trouble boarding. It was a bit annoying to shuffle all my sideboard in every game and then decide what to take out, but it isn't a bad habit to get into anyway. Biggest problem was that without pod, the deck sometimes just stalled (pre and post board) but I guess that is the reality of playing aggro.
Yeah the combo shouldn't be sideboarded. Sometimes you might want to sideboard the combo OUT but never should it be in the sideboard. First of all, it takes up 7 slots. Second of all it's a back-up plan, and third the cards by themselves are not bad at all. Splinter Twinning a Titan is ggz and Deciever Exarch can defend, beat for 1 and tap blockers.
I have played U/R Twin before and I honestly hated it, the combo isn't easy at all to pull off with spellskite being as popular as it is and sideboard cards like combust. I much prefer a more classic aproach to Rug like Ari Lax posted. I would definitely prefer to just board it in against decks that don't play a lot of counters, skites or instant removal.
RUG doesn't depend on the Twin Combo as much as U/R Twin...
RUG has answers to mainboard Spellskites and not to mention those 0/4 are just chomp blockers against our 6 drops...
-=-=-=-=-=-
As for the Twin Combo being the SB, it's actually better in the MD...
just because it can easily win you game one when you have everything...
and making them play very cautiously game two...
I really just love the mind games it offers...
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RUG doesn't depend on the Twin Combo as much as U/R Twin...
RUG has answers to mainboard Spellskites and not to mention those 0/4 are just chomp blockers against our 6 drops...
-=-=-=-=-=-
As for the Twin Combo being the SB, it's actually better in the MD...
just because it can easily win you game one when you have everything...
and making them play very cautiously game two...
I really just love the mind games it offers...
how do you play this deck exactly?
I've never used Titans or the Twin Combo as I'm still a neo-caw/elves player, but I really want to expand my playstyle...any help on that one?
I've never used Titans or the Twin Combo as I'm still a neo-caw/elves player, but I really want to expand my playstyle...any help on that one?
The best way to find out would be to actually just play it. Using Lotus Cobra for the first time is definitely an awesome experience. Basically the idea is to play control while advancing your mana-base so you get to your endgame sooner than a normal control deck. Plays like Lotus Cobra into Fetchland for Mana Leak, are really good. It's also pretty good to find the turn 3 and 4 Titans. You also randomly win from the Exarch combo as well.
The big advantage is that you have a ton of mana making other mana leaks obsolete, and mana leaks of your own so with your extraneous mana you can be proactive. U/G control is probably my favorite archetype.
The best way to find out would be to actually just play it. Using Lotus Cobra for the first time is definitely an awesome experience. Basically the idea is to play control while advancing your mana-base so you get to your endgame sooner than a normal control deck. Plays like Lotus Cobra into Fetchland for Mana Leak, are really good. It's also pretty good to find the turn 3 and 4 Titans. You also randomly win from the Exarch combo as well.
The big advantage is that you have a ton of mana making other mana leaks obsolete, and mana leaks of your own so with your extraneous mana you can be proactive. U/G control is probably my favorite archetype.
I'm using your list and I feel like I never have control at all. I've drawn the 2 leaks like...2 times out of 10 games and I just keep losing over and over again on cockatrice V_V
I'm using your list and I feel like I never have control at all. I've drawn the 2 leaks like...2 times out of 10 games and I just keep losing over and over again on cockatrice V_V
This deck is less about control and more about tempo. Don't play too reactively. Set yourself up to be ABLE to react, but be proactive. You can't be too afraid to tap your mana.
This deck is less about control and more about tempo. Don't play too reactively. Set yourself up to be ABLE to react, but be proactive. You can't be too afraid to tap your mana.
With five maindeck counters and 4 maindeck removal spells you're saying that deck is LESS controlling? what?
Am I missing something here, in counter/kill being control elements, and therefore by adding more you're REDUCING tempo in FAVOR of control?
With five maindeck counters and 4 maindeck removal spells you're saying that deck is LESS controlling? what?
Am I missing something here, in counter/kill being control elements, and therefore by adding more you're REDUCING tempo in FAVOR of control?
With respect to the user's previous deck, CawBlade.
EDIT: CawBlade is about durdling about and grinding out your wins with Hawks. RUG Twin is about advancing your end-game plan while controlling the game. With respect to my old list, this one is more controlling, yes.
I love your new deck a lot :), it has been working out better for me. I find that turn 2 my cobras still get countered/dismembered though which usually really slows me down =\.
I like it but Lightning Bolt? It seems strange main. On the other hand it feels like bolt would be good against Caw Blade. It punishes them for playing Dismember and it is really good when they tap out to equip.
love this deck! i'm going to be using this this week at FNM i think...i think we can improve on this though...what are thoughts on precursor golem??? interesting spot for a 5 drop.
I don't think RUG is dead quite yet, people at my FNM play a decent number of tempered steel decks and my EXTREMELY budget RUG usually places top 3 out of about 20 people, at least top 5.
When i say budget i mean i spent no money on this deck to make it good.
I swear I first read it as Wingbonger...something tells me that "As Long as Wingbonger is paired with another creature, both creatures have weed." wouldn't be as good. Seems solid for limited.
First of all, i know im not running the Splinter Twin combo, and i don't plan too since i don't have any splinter twins and i dont plan on getting my hands on a playset.
Now then, i think i should up Explore to 4 copies to speed up my deck since im already not running any Lotus Cobras. I also want to make some room for Dismember since its such a good removal spell. also, Ponder vs Preordain? i think Preordain is better here cauze it lets us scry.
I know that the Reverberate and Redirect look out of place, but i decided to play them too see how they work. I see Reverberate as a good way to protect our cards (reverberate a leak and target their leak for example) or for getting extra milage out of our cards (RRU for scry 2,draw 1 two times sounds good to me). The Redirect helps us deal with the splinter twin combo(redirect the splinter twin on to one of your guys) or redirect removal back at them(dismembers, O-rings, JtN, burn spells).
I was also wondering, if they played an Acidic Slime and targeted on of my lands, could I Redirect it back to one of his lands? since the slime is a spell. just wondering.
Hey, first attempt at a RUG list.
I was also wondering, if they played an Acidic Slime and targeted on of my lands, could I Redirect it back to one of his lands? since the slime is a spell. just wondering.
Nope. The land destruction effect is a triggered ability that triggers after the slime enters play (spell resolves). Redirect cannot change the target of abilities.
Also, redirect does not work on Oblivion ring or journey to nowhere, since again, the exile effect is a triggered ability that triggers once the enchantment enters play. Redirect does work on auras like splinter twin and pacifism, and instant speed removal. That said it is a narrow card, that would almost certainly be better as a simple counterspell.
I don't see how the deck you posted can compete with the more standardized RUG lists. Sorry. Lotus cobra is so powerful that you really should be playing it.
So I went 3-1 again today. I lost to Mono-red with the Splinter-Twin pod version, but I did beat Caw Blade VERY handily. Birthing Pod did exactly what I thought it would do against them. Things I noticed were TukTuk the Explorer was awesome, I kinda wanted an Urabrask in my deck, Phantasmal Image was terrible and never wanted to see it or search for it. Phyrexian Metamorph on the other hand was the exact opposite and was amazing.
It's pretty clear that I need a big plan for mono-red because this deck almost auto-scoops to it. However the really good match-up against Valakut and Caw Blade is worth playing it. Plus it really rewards tight play, which I like.
EDIT: Also I went to Game Day today went 2-1, placed 3rd, my loss was to mono-red AGAIN. This time it wasn't bad because I boarded in like 8 cards.
If you're up to boarding in 8 cards and still losing matches, maybe you should just chuck that matchup into the auto-loss category and focus more on stronger sideboarding for other matchups.
It's important to note that I haven't played a RUG list whatsoever in months and am just talking from a general experience of the game.
If you're up to boarding in 8 cards and still losing matches, maybe you should just chuck that matchup into the auto-loss category and focus more on stronger sideboarding for other matchups.
It's important to note that I haven't played a RUG list whatsoever in months and am just talking from a general experience of the game.
The postboard games are definitely winnable with this plan. I switched out Bolts for Mental Misstep now and it works way better. Plus Misstep is better against UB as well, though it depends on what I see if I wanna board them in.
The postboard games are definitely winnable with this plan. I switched out Bolts for Mental Misstep now and it works way better. Plus Misstep is better against UB as well, though it depends on what I see if I wanna board them in.
For me, just making a matchup winnable isn't enough. I personally have to make a matchup favorable post board (at least 60/40 in my favor) to commit anything more than just a few cards towards any one matchup. If I'm unable to do that then I focus on winning other matchups more frequently, which should theoretically give me more long term match wins.
For me, just making a matchup winnable isn't enough. I personally have to make a matchup favorable post board (at least 60/40 in my favor) to commit anything more than just a few cards towards any one matchup. If I'm unable to do that then I focus on winning other matchups more frequently, which should theoretically give me more long term match wins.
Perhaps I'm too analytical though.
I feel like it's the only bad match-up though... No other match-up requires heavy sideboarding.
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3 Solemn Simulacrum
Creatures
2 Consecrated Sphinx
3 Inferno Titan
4 Lotus Cobra
Instants
2 Dismember
2 Into the Roil
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
Planeswalkers
3 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Explore
4 Preordain
Basic Lands
4 Forest
4 Island
2 Mountain
Lands
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Halimar Depths
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Raging Ravine
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Dismember
3 Flashfreeze
3 Nature's Claim
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Pyroclasm
1 Slagstorm
I've played a few games against Caw. G1 feels very much like old RUG and slightly favoured (Between Jens, Garruk, Titan and Sphinx, there're way more threats than they have answer for). Granted it is weak against twin but can obviously be tweaked.
Streamline your mana base. Run more basics - with solemns in there, I can't think of a good reason not to 4/4/4.
I love this list, but why no primeval titan? I'm thinking of making this list myself, it seems really fun :)!
Even Rampaging baloths are better!
Because it simply improves the deck two fold by giving it a secondary win condition to titan, and it constantly limits the moves an opponent can do.
I ran a really aggro rug deck (max cmc of 4 for 4 vengevines and 3 hero of oxid ridge, goblin guides on the low end, trinket mage and memnite for vine triggers, etc) with exarch twin in the side for a few weeks. It worked pretty well because it was so aggro that people had trouble boarding. It was a bit annoying to shuffle all my sideboard in every game and then decide what to take out, but it isn't a bad habit to get into anyway. Biggest problem was that without pod, the deck sometimes just stalled (pre and post board) but I guess that is the reality of playing aggro.
RUG doesn't depend on the Twin Combo as much as U/R Twin...
RUG has answers to mainboard Spellskites and not to mention those 0/4 are just chomp blockers against our 6 drops...
-=-=-=-=-=-
As for the Twin Combo being the SB, it's actually better in the MD...
just because it can easily win you game one when you have everything...
and making them play very cautiously game two...
I really just love the mind games it offers...
TBA
Projects under construction:
Standard:
- Werewolves... O_o
Others
- Sliver Overlord EDH
- Riku
how do you play this deck exactly?
I've never used Titans or the Twin Combo as I'm still a neo-caw/elves player, but I really want to expand my playstyle...any help on that one?
The best way to find out would be to actually just play it. Using Lotus Cobra for the first time is definitely an awesome experience. Basically the idea is to play control while advancing your mana-base so you get to your endgame sooner than a normal control deck. Plays like Lotus Cobra into Fetchland for Mana Leak, are really good. It's also pretty good to find the turn 3 and 4 Titans. You also randomly win from the Exarch combo as well.
The big advantage is that you have a ton of mana making other mana leaks obsolete, and mana leaks of your own so with your extraneous mana you can be proactive. U/G control is probably my favorite archetype.
I'm using your list and I feel like I never have control at all. I've drawn the 2 leaks like...2 times out of 10 games and I just keep losing over and over again on cockatrice V_V
That's my old list. My new list is this:
4x Forest
4x Island
4x Mountain
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Raging Ravine
2x Copperline Gorge
Instant (9)
3x Mana Leak
2x Spell Pierce
2x Into the Roil
2x Dismember
2x Solemn Simulacrum
4x Lotus Cobra
3x Inferno Titan
2x Consecrated Sphinx
4x Deceiver Exarch
Enchantment (3)
3x Splinter Twin
Sorcery (7)
1x Explore
4x Preordain
2x Ponder
1x Creeping Corrosion
1x Dismember
3x Nature's Claim
2x Obstinate Baloth
1x Mana Leak
4x Pyroclasm
1x Spell Pierce
2x Spellskite
This deck is less about control and more about tempo. Don't play too reactively. Set yourself up to be ABLE to react, but be proactive. You can't be too afraid to tap your mana.
Am I missing something here, in counter/kill being control elements, and therefore by adding more you're REDUCING tempo in FAVOR of control?
With respect to the user's previous deck, CawBlade.
EDIT: CawBlade is about durdling about and grinding out your wins with Hawks. RUG Twin is about advancing your end-game plan while controlling the game. With respect to my old list, this one is more controlling, yes.
love this deck! i'm going to be using this this week at FNM i think...i think we can improve on this though...what are thoughts on precursor golem??? interesting spot for a 5 drop.
i love the idea of rug titan though.
When i say budget i mean i spent no money on this deck to make it good.
3 Plated Geopede
3 Hedron Crab
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Precursor Golem
2 Avenger of Zendikar
2 Rampaging Baloths
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Harrow
Sorceries
4 Preordain
1 See Beyond
1 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Explore
Planeswalker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Adventuring Gear
Land
1 Rootbound Craig
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
8 Forest
5 Island
5 Mountain
RIP Mike McArtor. The Mothership won't be the same.
Legacy
GG Aggro Elves GG
Oh and no budget discussion in the competitive forums.
2x Explore
2x Beast Within
3x Rampant Growth
3x Incinerate
3x Reverberate
3x Redirect
4x Preordain
4x Mana leak
2x Acidic Slime
2x Inferno Titan
1x Frost Titan
3x Solemn Simulacrum
4x SkinShifter
Lands
4x Rootbound crag
4x Copperline Gorge
4x Forest
3x Mountains
6x Islands
3x Halimar depths
First of all, i know im not running the Splinter Twin combo, and i don't plan too since i don't have any splinter twins and i dont plan on getting my hands on a playset.
Now then, i think i should up Explore to 4 copies to speed up my deck since im already not running any Lotus Cobras. I also want to make some room for Dismember since its such a good removal spell. also, Ponder vs Preordain? i think Preordain is better here cauze it lets us scry.
I know that the Reverberate and Redirect look out of place, but i decided to play them too see how they work. I see Reverberate as a good way to protect our cards (reverberate a leak and target their leak for example) or for getting extra milage out of our cards (RRU for scry 2,draw 1 two times sounds good to me). The Redirect helps us deal with the splinter twin combo(redirect the splinter twin on to one of your guys) or redirect removal back at them(dismembers, O-rings, JtN, burn spells).
I was also wondering, if they played an Acidic Slime and targeted on of my lands, could I Redirect it back to one of his lands? since the slime is a spell. just wondering.
so thoughts?
Nope. The land destruction effect is a triggered ability that triggers after the slime enters play (spell resolves). Redirect cannot change the target of abilities.
Also, redirect does not work on Oblivion ring or journey to nowhere, since again, the exile effect is a triggered ability that triggers once the enchantment enters play. Redirect does work on auras like splinter twin and pacifism, and instant speed removal. That said it is a narrow card, that would almost certainly be better as a simple counterspell.
I don't see how the deck you posted can compete with the more standardized RUG lists. Sorry. Lotus cobra is so powerful that you really should be playing it.
It's pretty clear that I need a big plan for mono-red because this deck almost auto-scoops to it. However the really good match-up against Valakut and Caw Blade is worth playing it. Plus it really rewards tight play, which I like.
EDIT: Also I went to Game Day today went 2-1, placed 3rd, my loss was to mono-red AGAIN. This time it wasn't bad because I boarded in like 8 cards.
It's important to note that I haven't played a RUG list whatsoever in months and am just talking from a general experience of the game.
The postboard games are definitely winnable with this plan. I switched out Bolts for Mental Misstep now and it works way better. Plus Misstep is better against UB as well, though it depends on what I see if I wanna board them in.
For me, just making a matchup winnable isn't enough. I personally have to make a matchup favorable post board (at least 60/40 in my favor) to commit anything more than just a few cards towards any one matchup. If I'm unable to do that then I focus on winning other matchups more frequently, which should theoretically give me more long term match wins.
Perhaps I'm too analytical though.
I feel like it's the only bad match-up though... No other match-up requires heavy sideboarding.