Round 1 - UB Infect. The major win came Game 1 when I BSZ his board away and took Jace to his deck. Game 2 I had lots of mana and no action, plus Vatmother is a very quick clock. Game 3 I had BSZ and IoK to slow him down, then dropped Karn to finish the game off.
Round 2 - Naya Fuana Shaman (with SFM package). Game 1 he crashed in with Turn 2 Mirran Crusader then SoBaM to keep it safe. I stalemated the game up then he Shamaned up a MD Manic Vandal and I lost. Game 2 I got Treasure Mage into Wurmcoil and keep smashing away for victory. Game 3 he mulled to 5 and I had 2 IoK and 1 Despise...he scooped it up.
Round 3 - Valakut. Game 1 he went Lotus Cobra into Primeval Titan. I redirected some with Spellskite, but eventually he just overwhelmed me. Game 2 I hit Iok/Despise 3 times in the game and got Jace to Fateseal for the win. Game 3 was an epic back an forth with him a 3 life with Avenger and 12 tokens, and me with a Creeping Tarpit. He needed any 2x landfall trigger to kill me, but found only an Explore, into Explore, into Lotus Cobra.
Round 4 - BR Infect. Game 1 he had no answer to a Turn 5 Karn after I just BSZ his board, leaving me free to Exile all his B mana. Game 2 I knew he had little answer to Planeswalkers, so I just ran out Tezz, Jace, and Karn, which was strong enough to Fateseal, Exile, and Animate my way to victory.
Congrats on the 1st place finish. You have a very similar build to mine only with preordains instead of spot removal and a battlesphere (literally almost same deck otherwise even the PW distro) and you have a 1x Opal. Couple of questions on the differences if you don't mind.
Would you say the preordains were worth it and did you ever find yourself wanting some spot removal? I only ask because I find myself constantly switching my mind about these two packages. Currently I'm on the spot removal side (see my previous posts on ponder a few pages back) but am very much conisdering tezz gambit in leiu of preordain and swapping out the removal (keeping the BSZ though). Thoughts?
Also how is the opal treating you? I was thinking about adding one back into my deck since Karn is 7. How'd it fair/was it worth the slot?
So unfortunately I don't have the list but yesterday at the Midwest Masters in Minneapolis a Tezzeret Aggro Deck took 1st place. I played against it in the first round and I have to say it was very interesting I'ma try to find the list and post it.
Man have been working FURIOUSLY on my Tezz aggro list, I am DYING to see a list that has had success.
DOJ is brought in against creature aggro decks. Dispense justice wouldnt be enough to stop them. Tec Edge, spot removal, tumble magnets are all we need for manlands, and gideon. What's being played competitively with Shroud?
This is the list that i'm planning on putting together. Phoenix seems really powerful black decks, and with a sword in its mouth, he hurts pretty bad. I'm not entirely sure if 3 mox opals is correct or if I could get away with 2 in favor of another Tezz or Koth or something.
So does tumble magnet prevent the splinter twin combo? I thought it did but I just got beat by a guy who says that it doesn't. Either way could someone elaborate on this?
I remember the list...if you see, I posted after that with something about the surprise factor. I could see it working if you really dedicated your board to it. A lot more importance is placed on game 1 though caz once you lose the element of surprise its play skill that wins:cool2:
Anybody discuss that deck which Top 8'd Singapore?? It ran a playset of Torpor Orb!
I remember the list...if you see, I posted after that with something about the surprise factor. I could see it working if you really dedicated your board to it. A lot more importance is placed on game 1 though caz once you lose the element of surprise its play skill that wins:cool2:
Anybody discuss that deck which Top 8'd Singapore?? It ran a playset of Torpor Orb!
link to decklist please
btw if anyone wants to talk to neo, i can shoot you his email via PM. he told me its ok to do so. just ask for it and i'll give it to you
btw if anyone wants to talk to neo, i can shoot you his email via PM. he told me its ok to do so. just ask for it and i'll give it to you
I just want his match results, deck lists, and card choice explanations. As well as any thoughts and reasons for any changes made.... FOR EVERY ITERATION OF HIS DECK.... lol =)
Seriously... not joking... I do not want to see his deck list die on this thread...
Wow! Seriously, no ones seen dat list!!! it's been like 3 days since the event??? Anyway, I will emplore you to go to Magic's website and check it out.
Personally, I liked the deck. He ran 23 lands and 4 Chalice. Then he included 4 Disfigure in his 75 and I love that! Oh, and he went 7-2 day 1 and 5-0-1 day two FYI
Congrats on the 1st place finish. You have a very similar build to mine only with preordains instead of spot removal and a battlesphere (literally almost same deck otherwise even the PW distro) and you have a 1x Opal. Couple of questions on the differences if you don't mind.
Would you say the preordains were worth it and did you ever find yourself wanting some spot removal? I only ask because I find myself constantly switching my mind about these two packages. Currently I'm on the spot removal side (see my previous posts on ponder a few pages back) but am very much conisdering tezz gambit in leiu of preordain and swapping out the removal (keeping the BSZ though). Thoughts?
Also how is the opal treating you? I was thinking about adding one back into my deck since Karn is 7. How'd it fair/was it worth the slot?
Preordain is one of the most crucial cards in the deck. Without it, the deck gets really clunky. One U does so much for the deck that I could not feel comfortable playing the deck without them.
Opal is fine, as I wanted another cheap artifact for Forgemaster and sometimes the acceleration is very helpful. Overall, I would never run more then one.
Tumble Magnet does not "stop" the combo - however, it buys you ONE turn to do something else about it.
You have to Tumble their Deceiver Exarch in response to them casting Splinter Twin - this means that the Exarch will be tapped and can't tap to start the chain of tokens. However, after their next untap step, there's nothing else that Tumble Magnet can do to save you.
Tumble Magnet does not "stop" the combo - however, it buys you ONE turn to do something else about it.
You have to Tumble their Deceiver Exarch in response to them casting Splinter Twin - this means that the Exarch will be tapped and can't tap to start the chain of tokens. However, after their next untap step, there's nothing else that Tumble Magnet can do to save you.
Yes tumble magnet only buys you one turn but something no one has mentioned is that it is a very important turn that allows you to play against the deck differently. Part of the power in the deceiver/twin combo is how deceiver has flash. So if you ever tap out they can lay it down and you have no mana to do anything about it. Tumble lets you survive one turn so you can untap and answer it.
So w/o tumble you almost have to leave some mana open from t2 on against a splinter/twin deck or risk being blown out (and they might not even have the combo in the first place!)
w/ tumble magnet you can keep playing normally and just hold your removal for the twin.
All that said... hand distro is still one of our best strategies to combat that deck (or spellskite to redirect the splinter twin to it)
Preordain is one of the most crucial cards in the deck. Without it, the deck gets really clunky. One U does so much for the deck that I could not feel comfortable playing the deck without them.
Opal is fine, as I wanted another cheap artifact for Forgemaster and sometimes the acceleration is very helpful. Overall, I would never run more then one.
Thanks for the input Bankai. So when do you use preordain? As discussed a few pages back in a more typical control deck the longer you hold it the better... but in this deck I'm often digging pretty deep already by late game so I don't know if it's needed (which is why tezz gambit seems appealing with the 2x card draw and prolif). Early game I want to be using hand disruption and playing my magnets etc. so i often don't have the mana to spend on it. Just curious as to how you're playing it. Is it searching for answers late game? Or are you smoothing out hands in the early turns instead of doing hand disruption?
so.. i just realized, with stopping the exarch combo, a single tumble magnet does nothing because they can flash him in EOT and tap your magnet, then untap and play their twin and win. you have to have 2 magnets for it to work, and even then it only gives you 1 turn lol.
Thanks for the input Bankai. So when do you use preordain? As discussed a few pages back in a more typical control deck the longer you hold it the better... but in this deck I'm often digging pretty deep already by late game so I don't know if it's needed (which is why tezz gambit seems appealing with the 2x card draw and prolif). Early game I want to be using hand disruption and playing my magnets etc. so i often don't have the mana to spend on it. Just curious as to how you're playing it. Is it searching for answers late game? Or are you smoothing out hands in the early turns instead of doing hand disruption?
That is the beauty of Preordain, you use it whenever you need it and it still retains it's value. Examples: If I have a hand that is Preordain, IoK, Tezz, Chalice, and 3x Land, I am most likely going to save Preordain becuase I want to use IoK first to safely play a Turn 3 Tezz. Now if my hand is Preordain, Forgemaster, IoK, Chalice, and 3x Land, I want to save the IoK to protect playing the Forgemaster and thus use Preordain to find another artifact early on.
Preordain versitility keeps the deck running smooth and should be played when you need it versus when you have it.
That is the beauty of Preordain, you use it whenever you need it and it still retains it's value. Examples: If I have a hand that is Preordain, IoK, Tezz, Chalice, and 3x Land, I am most likely going to save Preordain becuase I want to use IoK first to safely play a Turn 3 Tezz. Now if my hand is Preordain, Forgemaster, IoK, Chalice, and 3x Land, I want to save the IoK to protect playing the Forgemaster and thus use Preordain to find another artifact early on.
Preordain versatility keeps the deck running smooth and should be played when you need it versus when you have it.
I agree with the versatility being it's strongest point. I guess my experience is I ended up just holding on to it and not using it (in this deck only... in all my other blue decks it's a 4 of all star). Early game i go hand disruption and late game I have jace and tezz searching stuff up for me. Once I have enough mana to play my threats and preordain is the only time I often do it (usually t6 or later) at which point I'm thinking tezz gambit might be a better investment. He nets you two cards and proliferates.
It's cool if that's not what you have experienced with it and that's exactly why I'm trying to see how it's been working out for you. Either way thanks for the input though! It's always nice to hear from another perspective. I might have to give it another shot.
so.. i just realized, with stopping the exarch combo, a single tumble magnet does nothing because they can flash him in EOT and tap your magnet, then untap and play their twin and win. you have to have 2 magnets for it to work, and even then it only gives you 1 turn lol.
Hahahaha. That's awesome. I'm glad the splinter deck player I've faced hasn't thought of that. The one magnet has been working for me so far :- )
The effective answers to the SplinterTwin combo are IoK, Duress, Dismember and Torpor Orb. The less effective answers, because they require leaving 2 mana untapped at all times, are Go for the Throat, Mana Leak and Deprive.
You can beat the combo in the early game by taking it out of their hand proactively or by killing the Deceiver Exarch after it flashes in at EoT, You can hold it off with Torpor Orb until they find their answer.
In the mid to late game you cannot beat the combo. Once they've developed the board with a Spellskite and counter mana alongside the Deceiver Exarch it's just a matter of time until they go off successfully.
So the conundrum becomes how to win fast enough that you won't get to the late game while also leaving 1-2 mana untapped every turn. Any tap out play is a bad play unless it wins the game for you when you tap out.
The effective answers to the SplinterTwin combo are IoK, Duress, Dismember and Torpor Orb. The less effective answers, because they require leaving 2 mana untapped at all times, are Go for the Throat, Mana Leak and Deprive.
You can beat the combo in the early game by taking it out of their hand proactively or by killing the Deceiver Exarch after it flashes in at EoT, You can hold it off with Torpor Orb until they find their answer.
In the mid to late game you cannot beat the combo. Once they've developed the board with a Spellskite and counter mana alongside the Deceiver Exarch it's just a matter of time until they go off successfully.
So the conundrum becomes how to win fast enough that you won't get to the late game while also leaving 1-2 mana untapped every turn. Any tap out play is a bad play unless it wins the game for you when you tap out.
Personally I'm going to pick up 4 surgical extractions and SB them (don't have them yet. Waiting to see how far they drop first). Then once you remove one exarch or twin from their hand with early hand disruption you can surgical extraction the rest away. Without the combo that deck is not very scary.
Personally I'm going to pick up 4 surgical extractions and SB them (don't have them yet. Waiting to see how far they drop first). Then once you remove one exarch or twin from their hand with early hand disruption you can surgical extraction the rest away. Without the combo that deck is not very scary.
Even assuming that Surgical Extraction was a good card, which it isn't, there's very little room to fit it into a Tezzeret build. You have your IoK and possibly Duress from the sideboard. You have Dismember. You have Preordain. Now where's the room for Surgical Extraction? We haven't even added Mana Leak to the list yet and we're already out of non-artifact slots.
Now throw in the fact that against SplinterTwin Surgical Extraction does nothing before you have cast IoK or Duress and it becomes a really bad option in the list.
Even assuming that Surgical Extraction was a good card, which it isn't, there's very little room to fit it into a Tezzeret build. You have your IoK and possibly Duress from the sideboard. You have Dismember. You have Preordain. Now where's the room for Surgical Extraction? We haven't even added Mana Leak to the list yet and we're already out of non-artifact slots.
Now throw in the fact that against SplinterTwin Surgical Extraction does nothing before you have cast IoK or Duress and it becomes a really bad option in the list.
Not that I disagree. I just haven't thought of a better solution yet because as you pointed out earlier even if you get rid of the early option they will eventually land the combo and win unless you can beat them faster. And that's very tough to do without tapping out which you also pointed out is a dangerous play against that deck. That's where the surgical extraction idea came from. It's not the best card but that's why it's a SB card. The idea is that I would swap out my removal (BSZ, dismembers, doomblades etc) for the surgical extractions as I already MB the hand disruption.
I'm not too worried about the other creatures in that deck so I think that SB swap would work. Although I do hate devoting 4 SB slots to counter one specific deck... it is pretty prevalent in my local meta and wins out of no where. My current strategy has just been SB in even more hand disruption but that's too reactive and I often get nailed by a topdeck. Maybe I'll try upping my SB torpor orbs first and see if that is enough (I only run one right now)
Still... I'm very open to other game plans I'm just trying to figure out what they might be.
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Congrats on the 1st place finish. You have a very similar build to mine only with preordains instead of spot removal and a battlesphere (literally almost same deck otherwise even the PW distro) and you have a 1x Opal. Couple of questions on the differences if you don't mind.
Would you say the preordains were worth it and did you ever find yourself wanting some spot removal? I only ask because I find myself constantly switching my mind about these two packages. Currently I'm on the spot removal side (see my previous posts on ponder a few pages back) but am very much conisdering tezz gambit in leiu of preordain and swapping out the removal (keeping the BSZ though). Thoughts?
Also how is the opal treating you? I was thinking about adding one back into my deck since Karn is 7. How'd it fair/was it worth the slot?
Man have been working FURIOUSLY on my Tezz aggro list, I am DYING to see a list that has had success.
my list...
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Creeping Tar Pit
6 Swamp
6 Island
4 Tectonic Edge
Creatures 24
4 Spellskite
4 Hex Parasite
4 Spined Thopter
4 Vault Skirge
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Doomblade
3 Despise
1 Batterskull
1 Tumble Magnet
1 Sword of War and Peace
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Go for the Throat
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Mental Misstep
4 Vampire Hexmage
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Despise
Standard:
Retired.
Modern:
Blitzhelix! RW
EDH (1v1): I am a jerk! RG
Tiny Leaders (1v1): BURN! R
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/2820-tradesies
4 Kuldotha Phoenix
3 Vault Skirge
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Etched Champion
Planeswalkers [5]
2 Koth of the Hammer
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Everflowing Chalice
4 Galvanic Blast
3 Mox Opal
4 Sphere of the Suns
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Sword of War and Peace
3 Tumble Magnet
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Island
7 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
This is the list that i'm planning on putting together. Phoenix seems really powerful black decks, and with a sword in its mouth, he hurts pretty bad. I'm not entirely sure if 3 mox opals is correct or if I could get away with 2 in favor of another Tezz or Koth or something.
yea, it delays the combo till they can untap again.
Thoughts?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=333582
Anybody discuss that deck which Top 8'd Singapore?? It ran a playset of Torpor Orb!
Thanks to Dantcg for the Sig!
link to decklist please
btw if anyone wants to talk to neo, i can shoot you his email via PM. he told me its ok to do so. just ask for it and i'll give it to you
I just want his match results, deck lists, and card choice explanations. As well as any thoughts and reasons for any changes made.... FOR EVERY ITERATION OF HIS DECK.... lol =)
Seriously... not joking... I do not want to see his deck list die on this thread...
Personally, I liked the deck. He ran 23 lands and 4 Chalice. Then he included 4 Disfigure in his 75 and I love that! Oh, and he went 7-2 day 1 and 5-0-1 day two FYI
Thanks to Dantcg for the Sig!
Preordain is one of the most crucial cards in the deck. Without it, the deck gets really clunky. One U does so much for the deck that I could not feel comfortable playing the deck without them.
Opal is fine, as I wanted another cheap artifact for Forgemaster and sometimes the acceleration is very helpful. Overall, I would never run more then one.
You have to Tumble their Deceiver Exarch in response to them casting Splinter Twin - this means that the Exarch will be tapped and can't tap to start the chain of tokens. However, after their next untap step, there's nothing else that Tumble Magnet can do to save you.
Yes tumble magnet only buys you one turn but something no one has mentioned is that it is a very important turn that allows you to play against the deck differently. Part of the power in the deceiver/twin combo is how deceiver has flash. So if you ever tap out they can lay it down and you have no mana to do anything about it. Tumble lets you survive one turn so you can untap and answer it.
So w/o tumble you almost have to leave some mana open from t2 on against a splinter/twin deck or risk being blown out (and they might not even have the combo in the first place!)
w/ tumble magnet you can keep playing normally and just hold your removal for the twin.
All that said... hand distro is still one of our best strategies to combat that deck (or spellskite to redirect the splinter twin to it)
Thanks for the input Bankai. So when do you use preordain? As discussed a few pages back in a more typical control deck the longer you hold it the better... but in this deck I'm often digging pretty deep already by late game so I don't know if it's needed (which is why tezz gambit seems appealing with the 2x card draw and prolif). Early game I want to be using hand disruption and playing my magnets etc. so i often don't have the mana to spend on it. Just curious as to how you're playing it. Is it searching for answers late game? Or are you smoothing out hands in the early turns instead of doing hand disruption?
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpsin11/welcome#3
EDH:▼
(links to 3D generals)
Playing: Designing:
Retired:
nice thank you.
so.. i just realized, with stopping the exarch combo, a single tumble magnet does nothing because they can flash him in EOT and tap your magnet, then untap and play their twin and win. you have to have 2 magnets for it to work, and even then it only gives you 1 turn lol.
That is the beauty of Preordain, you use it whenever you need it and it still retains it's value. Examples: If I have a hand that is Preordain, IoK, Tezz, Chalice, and 3x Land, I am most likely going to save Preordain becuase I want to use IoK first to safely play a Turn 3 Tezz. Now if my hand is Preordain, Forgemaster, IoK, Chalice, and 3x Land, I want to save the IoK to protect playing the Forgemaster and thus use Preordain to find another artifact early on.
Preordain versitility keeps the deck running smooth and should be played when you need it versus when you have it.
I agree with the versatility being it's strongest point. I guess my experience is I ended up just holding on to it and not using it (in this deck only... in all my other blue decks it's a 4 of all star). Early game i go hand disruption and late game I have jace and tezz searching stuff up for me. Once I have enough mana to play my threats and preordain is the only time I often do it (usually t6 or later) at which point I'm thinking tezz gambit might be a better investment. He nets you two cards and proliferates.
It's cool if that's not what you have experienced with it and that's exactly why I'm trying to see how it's been working out for you. Either way thanks for the input though! It's always nice to hear from another perspective. I might have to give it another shot.
Hahahaha. That's awesome. I'm glad the splinter deck player I've faced hasn't thought of that. The one magnet has been working for me so far :- )
You can beat the combo in the early game by taking it out of their hand proactively or by killing the Deceiver Exarch after it flashes in at EoT, You can hold it off with Torpor Orb until they find their answer.
In the mid to late game you cannot beat the combo. Once they've developed the board with a Spellskite and counter mana alongside the Deceiver Exarch it's just a matter of time until they go off successfully.
So the conundrum becomes how to win fast enough that you won't get to the late game while also leaving 1-2 mana untapped every turn. Any tap out play is a bad play unless it wins the game for you when you tap out.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=852253
Personally I'm going to pick up 4 surgical extractions and SB them (don't have them yet. Waiting to see how far they drop first). Then once you remove one exarch or twin from their hand with early hand disruption you can surgical extraction the rest away. Without the combo that deck is not very scary.
Even assuming that Surgical Extraction was a good card, which it isn't, there's very little room to fit it into a Tezzeret build. You have your IoK and possibly Duress from the sideboard. You have Dismember. You have Preordain. Now where's the room for Surgical Extraction? We haven't even added Mana Leak to the list yet and we're already out of non-artifact slots.
Now throw in the fact that against SplinterTwin Surgical Extraction does nothing before you have cast IoK or Duress and it becomes a really bad option in the list.
Not that I disagree. I just haven't thought of a better solution yet because as you pointed out earlier even if you get rid of the early option they will eventually land the combo and win unless you can beat them faster. And that's very tough to do without tapping out which you also pointed out is a dangerous play against that deck. That's where the surgical extraction idea came from. It's not the best card but that's why it's a SB card. The idea is that I would swap out my removal (BSZ, dismembers, doomblades etc) for the surgical extractions as I already MB the hand disruption.
I'm not too worried about the other creatures in that deck so I think that SB swap would work. Although I do hate devoting 4 SB slots to counter one specific deck... it is pretty prevalent in my local meta and wins out of no where. My current strategy has just been SB in even more hand disruption but that's too reactive and I often get nailed by a topdeck. Maybe I'll try upping my SB torpor orbs first and see if that is enough (I only run one right now)
Still... I'm very open to other game plans I'm just trying to figure out what they might be.