Vault Skirge is a black artifact that is removable by every burn spell in the meta. Until Sword of Feast and Famine goes away the skirges are going to be really iffy. Immunity to both Doom Blade and Go for the Throat is good but not being able to block or swing through a flyer equipped with SoFaF is a real weakness in this meta.
In any case Precursor Golem and Vault Skirge are not similar assets and can't be compared. You need to look at what finishes for the list and nothing finishes better than Precursor Golem at the moment. Myr Battlesphere has a wider scope but it comes down really late and so is a 1-of or not included.
i dont think pro black from sword is enough to say dont play vault skirge.
i mean.. you can play sword of war and peace, but that doesnt stop people from playing squadron hawks and stoneforges lolz.
also, if he eats a burn spell, so what? thats one less burn spell pointed at your tezzeret or jace.
i agree with tronist, having skirge eat a burn spell doesn't hurt us too much... its like turning that burn spell into 2 dmg and a waste of mana for your opponent, now play a tezz and dig more out with him and go on your happy way know that's 1 less burn spell to take down tezz
Tezzeret's ultimate only looks weak because people think you need to hit for lethal with it. If you get the opponent down to 4-6 life with it and keep Tezzeret on the table they are toast most of the time.
Try bumping him to 5 counters and blowing the ultimate with 5 artifacts on the table after they've already lost 4 to 6 life. You can consistently do this on turn 6 or 7 and they rarely recover from it.
The other factor that makes the ultimate look less strong than it is comes from people still playing Inkmoth Nexus and diffusing the win-cons into separate categories that do not mutually support each other and the win. Tezzeret's ultimate says "do not use infect or I'm not worth very much." If people choose to diffuse in that way then they deserve to have Tezzeret be much weaker than he otherwise is.
Precursor and Vault Skirge do not compete for the same slot. Skirge is a early drop that requires other cards to make it useful. Precursor is a later drop that requires your opponent's cards not to be useful.
The arguement would be Precursor vs Batterskull or Skirge vs necessity of Swords in Tezz, but not Precursor Golem vs Vault Skirge.
This has been working out fairly well. I'm not quite sure about the contagion clasps. Might swap them out for something more relevant. I'm finding that more draw power needs to be put in, so I might throw in big Jaces.
Tezzeret's ultimate only looks weak because people think you need to hit for lethal with it. If you get the opponent down to 4-6 life with it and keep Tezzeret on the table they are toast most of the time.
Try bumping him to 5 counters and blowing the ultimate with 5 artifacts on the table after they've already lost 4 to 6 life. You can consistently do this on turn 6 or 7 and they rarely recover from it.
The other factor that makes the ultimate look less strong than it is comes from people still playing Inkmoth Nexus and diffusing the win-cons into separate categories that do not mutually support each other and the win. Tezzeret's ultimate says "do not use infect or I'm not worth very much." If people choose to diffuse in that way then they deserve to have Tezzeret be much weaker than he otherwise is.
what line of play are you going to CONSISTENTLY get the following on turn 7:
tezz with 5+ counters
5 artifacts on the board
4 damage to them
you are living in magical christmas land. 99.999999% of magic players will see tezzeret not only as the biggest immediate threat almost all of the time, they will also realize that killing him is HUGE in winning, and getting ahead. people dont just let your tezzeret do whatever he wants do do, whenever he wants to do it.
no one is undervaluing tezz ult, were just saying that damn near all of the time you would rather be doing his +1 to keep him fueling your card advantage to win the attrition war, or making 5/5's. his ult costs 4 loyalty. you have to have 5 loyalty in order to ult and keep him alive. its almost always foolish to use his ultimate to deal a bit of damage here or there because gaining an extra artifact and at the same time gaining more loyalty will make him more of a threat rather than -4 loyalty, you take less than lethal, and now you kill my tezz and stop my CA that would have straight up won the game.
and honestly, if you have a tezzeret on the board with 5 loyalty counters with enough things to keep him alive, you have probably already won the game a few turns down the line, you dont need a 7 or 5 mana artifact (battlesphere, or precursor) to win with tezz ult, thats win-more. what neoitems said is spot on "Tezzeret's ultimate has also lost face with me because it is by far his weakest ability when it comes to general play. As a finisher it is amazing, against aggro it is amazing, but when it comes to the decks over all function and game plan, it is his weakest without a doubt."
This has been working out fairly well. I'm not quite sure about the contagion clasps. Might swap them out for something more relevant. I'm finding that more draw power needs to be put in, so I might throw in big Jaces.
this deck looks pretty cool
make sure if you sneak jace in somewhere you keep your artifact count at 15 or above, however.
I tried running a build very similar to Neo's and I'm not quite sure it's strong enough. I tested it against a few different decks tonight and it just seems like there's too much "set up" involved. I just think it needs more creatures. There were just too many games where I didn't draw any threats. I'm not happy with the probes and am thinking of replacing them with some other creatures. Not sure what yet, but I just feel the deck needs more.
I really want to see how Karn plays out and how effective Batterskull is. Also, I want to find out if Tezz's Gambit is the real deal with Chalice/Magnet.
I really want to see how Karn plays out and how effective Batterskull is. Also, I want to find out if Tezz's Gambit is the real deal with Chalice/Magnet.
@ Karhumies -Vault skirge is pretty awesome in this deck. I would totally run him over Porcelain Legionnaire.
Vault Skirge is a horrible card without Tezzeret. Even when I have Tezzeret, I would rather turn a non-creature artifact into an artifact than pump Skirge. Even Hex Parasite would work much better than Skirge, when the secondary function of the creature slot currently occupied by Porcelain Legionnaire is to have a nonblack creature to block an attacker equipped with Sword of Feast and Famine.
Torpor Orb stops
- Stoneforge Mystic & Squadron Hawk
- Avenger of Zendikar (no plants -> landfall is useless)
- Titans' ETB trigger, after which I have 4x Tumble Magnet to keep them tapped
- Splinter Twin combo by hitting Deceiver Exarch
Now, how much % of the metagame do the aforementioned decks represent? Exactly.
Have you been able to obtain BBBB consistently for the Obliterator?
If you had looked at my manabase, you would have noticed that all of my 25 lands produce :b:. There is a chance that the 4th land will come into play tapped, but Obliterator is generally fine even as a T5 play. Well, better than Precursor Golem IMO.
My next objective will be to test Phyrexian Metamorph in the Phylactery Lich slot.
I think vault skirge works better with the flow. I usually play him down turn 1 if I have him or turn 2 after playing chalice. With porcelain legionaire, you would wanna play him turn 2 (usually when you wanna drop a chalice or sphere of the suns) or turn 3 (usually when you wanna drop tezz or jace).
And saying porcelain legionaire is better cause it's nonblack to block sword of feast and famine is ridiculous since people will be running sword of war and peace probably just as common. Hex parasite is better than legionaire because it could guard any sword carrier but the main sword carriers of caw-blade would be s-hawks and they would fly right over.
When Tezzeret's Gambit was spoiled I thought to myself "that'll replace Clasp" and I stand firm by that. Only thing Clasp has going for it is the fact that it is suedo-removal but the mere fact that Gambit draws two cards blows Clasp outta the water imo.
Vault Skirge is not THAT horrible without Tezz but I think it's better suited in an aggro Tezz build with swords/Batterskull.
It's value is a little higher in builds that plan to abuse Phyrexian mana.
what line of play are you going to CONSISTENTLY get the following on turn 7:
tezz with 5+ counters
5 artifacts on the board
4 damage to them
you are living in magical christmas land. 99.999999% of magic players will see tezzeret not only as the biggest immediate threat almost all of the time, they will also realize that killing him is HUGE in winning, and getting ahead. people dont just let your tezzeret do whatever he wants do do, whenever he wants to do it.
Turn 1: Inquisition of Kozilek/Preordain
Turn 2: Sphere of the Suns/Phyrexian Revoker
Turn 3: Tumble Magnet/IoK or Preordain + Sphere of the Suns or Phyrexian Revoker/Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Turn 4: Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas/Whatever
Turn 5: Precursor Golem blow the ultimate.
You don't have to do 4 damage to the opponent, often they've done 1 or 2 to themselves by that point. The capability to hit them a couple of times with something like Phyrexian Revoker is there but usually you swing once with a Tumble Magnet or targeted removal clearing the way and they're sitting at 16 or so when you have Tezzeret at 5 on turn 5, 6, 7.
If this was not a tapout meta things would play very differently, but it's a tapout meta.
Tezzeret's ultimate only looks weak because people think you need to hit for lethal with it. If you get the opponent down to 4-6 life with it and keep Tezzeret on the table they are toast most of the time.
Try bumping him to 5 counters and blowing the ultimate with 5 artifacts on the table after they've already lost 4 to 6 life. You can consistently do this on turn 6 or 7 and they rarely recover from it.
The other factor that makes the ultimate look less strong than it is comes from people still playing Inkmoth Nexus and diffusing the win-cons into separate categories that do not mutually support each other and the win. Tezzeret's ultimate says "do not use infect or I'm not worth very much." If people choose to diffuse in that way then they deserve to have Tezzeret be much weaker than he otherwise is.
You are missing either how the game actually works, viable strategy or something...
Tezzeret's Ultimate is something I have always only eve found useful in situations where it is easier to just drop artifact after artifact. Now days, the deck has become so much more reactive then it has been in the past. Playing like that is going to cause you to lose many games. Reactiveness is what Tezzeret has needed since Paris, and it is now getting it.
Poison may go against the grain when it comes to a plan which uses damage to win, but you have to keep in mind if you get to the point where you are able to equip Inkmoth's and protect them, the game is essentially sealed and they are on a small clock. a bladed inkmoth is as good as a 6/6 flyer that goes un-answered. meshing in an alternate win condition like that allows players to play around things like memoricide, which is something past Tezzeret Decks have had to worry about, which is the reason Koth was even ran in the list back before New Phyrexia.
Tezzeret's Ultimate is an opportunistic ability, beyond that it is virtually useless when you are running cards to push a MUCH more stable game plan through.
As far as needing Pieces for the deck to be good (as someone mentioned), You are playing a control game, you have time, if you do not have time, make time. Everything you need is in 2 piece combinations which vary. VS and Tez, Tez and inkmoth, Sword and inkmoth, sword and Vault skirge, sword and spellskite, spellskite and tezzeret. You should not have a problem setting yourself up for the win.
As far as probe goes, it is working well as a 2 of along side 3 preordains for me... perfectly in fact. Only think I might change is Tezzeret's Gambit, which I might drop in favor of counter or discard.
Turn 1: Inquisition of Kozilek/Preordain
Turn 2: Sphere of the Suns/Phyrexian Revoker
Turn 3: Tumble Magnet/IoK or Preordain + Sphere of the Suns or Phyrexian Revoker/Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Turn 4: Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas/Whatever
Turn 5: Precursor Golem blow the ultimate.
You don't have to do 4 damage to the opponent, often they've done 1 or 2 to themselves by that point. The capability to hit them a couple of times with something like Phyrexian Revoker is there but usually you swing once with a Tumble Magnet or targeted removal clearing the way and they're sitting at 16 or so when you have Tezzeret at 5 on turn 5, 6, 7.
If this was not a tapout meta things would play very differently, but it's a tapout meta.
Sounds way to far fetched. Sure it can happen. But if you are not staring at caw blade, you are staring at something else. Plays like that are disrupted often and consistently. That white steed you are on is actually a unicorn, and that plane you are in is not Mirrodin, it is magical christmas land.
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
Sounds way to far fetched. Sure it can happen. But if you are not staring at caw blade, you are staring at something else. Plays like that are disrupted often and consistently. That white steed you are on is actually a unicorn, and that plane you are in is not Mirrodin, it is magical christmas land.
The only way to deal with CawBlade is to beat it on the board or heavily disrupt it before it can get started. The sequence I gave you is a perfect example of both effects in play.
And suggesting that I'll get off a 1cc spell early when there are 8+ in the deck, followed by a 2cc spell when there are 12+ in the deck, followed by effective play otherwise is not magical wonderland, it's the way most games play out.
Not really sure where you're going here but it's not towards reality.
The only way to deal with CawBlade is to beat it on the board or heavily disrupt it before it can get started. The sequence I gave you is a perfect example of both effects in play.
And suggesting that I'll get off a 1cc spell early when there are 8+ in the deck, followed by a 2cc spell when there are 12+ in the deck, followed by effective play otherwise is not magical wonderland, it's the way most games play out.
Not really sure where you're going here but it's not towards reality.
Yeah... I suppose you are right. I am sorry, I was thinking people were playing Spell Pierce and Inquisition as a 4 of now days. Besides, Blue and Black are the weakest colors in standard right now anyways...
Yes, you are in christmas land. Such a play will roll over to Deciever Twin, Valakut is NEVER going to let Tezzeret actually sit through an upkeep on your end, Caw Blade is not going to let you tap out 5 turns in a row, RUG is going to kill Tezzeret before you get through an upkeep with him as well.
Your game plan is one to be used in magical christmas land or against HORRID players at an FNM. Simple as that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
Yeah... I suppose you are right. I am sorry, I was thinking people were playing Spell Pierce and Inquisition as a 4 of now days. Besides, Blue and Black are the weakest colors in standard right now anyways...
Just about everybody is playing the 4 Preordain. 2-4 Spell Pierce goes into a lot of lists also but it doesn't go into tapout builds at the 4 level and often not at the 2 level. 4 Inquisition of Kozilek goes into everything that is splashing or playing black at this point.
Yes, you are in christmas land. Such a play will roll over to Deciever Twin, Valakut is NEVER going to let Tezzeret actually sit through an upkeep on your end, Caw Blade is not going to let you tap out 5 turns in a row, RUG is going to kill Tezzeret before you get through an upkeep with him as well.
Your game plan is one to be used in magical christmas land or against HORRID players at an FNM. Simple as that.
All I can say to this is that we're obviously playing in very different metas. The only meta I play in at the moment is MTGO, and I find it to be about as harsh as the PTQ's I have attended. This is mainly because you see the absolute top lists and you see a ton of rogue pointy lists trying to kill you or totally disrupt you by turn 4. You never see Timmy online because there's a casual room which is where all of those lists go to play.
Just about everybody is playing the 4 Preordain. 2-4 Spell Pierce goes into a lot of lists also but it doesn't go into tapout builds at the 4 level and often not at the 2 level. 4 Inquisition of Kozilek goes into everything that is splashing or playing black at this point.
Yeah... exactly. Sorry but those two cards kill your tap out plan. And they see play where it counts.
All I can say to this is that we're obviously playing in very different metas. The only meta I play in at the moment is MTGO, and I find it to be about as harsh as the PTQ's I have attended. This is mainly because you see the absolute top lists and you see a ton of rogue pointy lists trying to kill you or totally disrupt you by turn 4. You never see Timmy online because there's a casual room which is where all of those lists go to play.
Haha.. yeah I am sorry, I thought it was Paper Magic that really counted.
All sarcasm aside, the decks I listed are from a 5k which, is actually very relevant even if it was just a day after the set's initial release. From this 5k, lists will form consistency. Caw-Blade is packing Spell Pierce and IoK in some the most popular variant. Deciever Twin is the expected deck, they pack not only IoK but Duress... 7 1 casting cost discard spells to trap you when you want to start taping out for a stupid curve like that of what you are suggesting.
Bottom line is, is that every deck you should be expecting right not, is going to have a very viable way to puncture your seal within your tap out plan. Sorry but we are in developing competitive, the nonsense you are suggesting is not really valid in that it is a strategy which lacks consistency but also a general game plan for others to use, it really contributes nothing to the thread.
I don't mean to dog on you but in reality, the approach you are suggesting, is atrocious and even counter productive to be honest.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
Sorry if this has already been discussed but I didn't see anything in the past 5 pages of this thread. Has anyone been working with a forgemaster build recently? I think with spellskite it might be viable again but obviously I'd love to hear some of the more competitive players thoughts and/or testing results.
Here's my current build. I'm still tweaking a bunch of things and playing around with NPH cards (like tezz gambit and vault skirge) but I'd love input or to hear if anyone has been trying this approach. Thanks!
This build tends to be very tempo based and reactive. I tend to try and use the tumble magnets and hand disruption to slow the opponent down until I can BSZ. I also try and play a PW turn 3 or 4 (preferably waiting for them to tapout). Then at that point I usually can start churning out my threats and protecting them with spellskite and the magnets. Contagion engine has also been huge for me as both a PW pumper, sweeper, magnet refiller, and ramp (via spheres and chalices).
I'd love to sneak some of my sideboard spell pierces into the main but don't know what to take for them. I've thought about removing Jace entirely as i need the space and he's one of the first cards I sideboard out in most matches... I just have a mental block since Jace is just that good... I'm thinking a 1x Karn with 2x spell pierce might be a good swap though...
I'm going to throw my Hat into the ring here, and post my list. This will get tested this week and at FNM, with a possible entry into Win-A-Box Standard on Saturday at a local shop. I think the U/B build is very workable, we just need to hit the right list.
Concerns:
4 Mana accel. is enough?
Moltensteel Dragon seems ok. Red flying blocker that survives a FnF Equipped Hawk.
A WnP Equipped hawk gets Vault Skirge.
Artifacts
2x Everflowing Chalice
2x Sphere of the Suns
2x Tumble Magnet
1x Sword of War and Peace
1x Moltensteel Dragon
3x Spellskite
4x Vault Skirge
2x Hex Parasite
Land
3x Island
4x Swamp
4x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Darkslick Shores
4x Drowned Catacomb
3x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Tectonic Edge
Planeswalkers
2x Jace Beleren
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Spells
2x Dismember
3x Mana Leak
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Preordain
Sideboard
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Argent Sphinx
2x Go for the Throat
3x Spell Pierce
3x Into the Roil
2x Black Sun's Zenith
3x Despise
So what you are telling him is that he needs to remove 6 of his 16 artifacts out and increase the curve on his list? also taking away early game threats and disruption.
and almost totally removing his card advantage from tez because he will be missing artifacts on his +1's.
Sorry if this has already been discussed but I didn't see anything in the past 5 pages of this thread. Has anyone been working with a forgemaster build recently? I think with spellskite it might be viable again but obviously I'd love to hear some of the more competitive players thoughts and/or testing results.
Here's my current build. I'm still tweaking a bunch of things and playing around with NPH cards (like tezz gambit and vault skirge) but I'd love input or to hear if anyone has been trying this approach. Thanks!
This build tends to be very tempo based and reactive. I tend to try and use the tumble magnets and hand disruption to slow the opponent down until I can BSZ. I also try and play a PW turn 3 or 4 (preferably waiting for them to tapout). Then at that point I usually can start churning out my threats and protecting them with spellskite and the magnets. Contagion engine has also been huge for me as both a PW pumper, sweeper, magnet refiller, and ramp (via spheres and chalices).
I'd love to sneak some of my sideboard spell pierces into the main but don't know what to take for them. I've thought about removing Jace entirely as i need the space and he's one of the first cards I sideboard out in most matches... I just have a mental block since Jace is just that good... I'm thinking a 1x Karn with 2x spell pierce might be a good swap though...
Thanks for any input!
i dont think the following cards are needed:
-contagion engine (you could tutor up the win instead of tutoring up a way to deal with little dudes)
-thopter assembly (reason below)
-hex parasite (again, you can tutor up the win instead of tutoring up a way to deal with something. this is probably better suited for SB)
in place of them i would go +2 spellskite and +1 forgemaster.
i'd also like to see a myr battlesphere 1 of in this list (its better than thopter because it does something right away, you dont have to wait and hope it doesnt get killed before upkeep). you could remove the wurmcoil and put battlesphere in its place.
whatever you do, however, i definitely think you will be wanting 4 spellskite and 4 forgemaster mainboard. spellskite is PERFECT for this style of tezz deck.
You are missing either how the game actually works, viable strategy or something...
Tezzeret's Ultimate is something I have always only eve found useful in situations where it is easier to just drop artifact after artifact. Now days, the deck has become so much more reactive then it has been in the past. Playing like that is going to cause you to lose many games. Reactiveness is what Tezzeret has needed since Paris, and it is now getting it.
Poison may go against the grain when it comes to a plan which uses damage to win, but you have to keep in mind if you get to the point where you are able to equip Inkmoth's and protect them, the game is essentially sealed and they are on a small clock. a bladed inkmoth is as good as a 6/6 flyer that goes un-answered. meshing in an alternate win condition like that allows players to play around things like memoricide, which is something past Tezzeret Decks have had to worry about, which is the reason Koth was even ran in the list back before New Phyrexia.
Tezzeret's Ultimate is an opportunistic ability, beyond that it is virtually useless when you are running cards to push a MUCH more stable game plan through.
As far as needing Pieces for the deck to be good (as someone mentioned), You are playing a control game, you have time, if you do not have time, make time. Everything you need is in 2 piece combinations which vary. VS and Tez, Tez and inkmoth, Sword and inkmoth, sword and Vault skirge, sword and spellskite, spellskite and tezzeret. You should not have a problem setting yourself up for the win.
As far as probe goes, it is working well as a 2 of along side 3 preordains for me... perfectly in fact. Only think I might change is Tezzeret's Gambit, which I might drop in favor of counter or discard.
Sounds way to far fetched. Sure it can happen. But if you are not staring at caw blade, you are staring at something else. Plays like that are disrupted often and consistently. That white steed you are on is actually a unicorn, and that plane you are in is not Mirrodin, it is magical christmas land.
I used this deck tonight at a standard tournament going 2 - 2. I beat the mirror match and beat RUG and then lost to a mono white, equipment and flying deck. Game 1 was close, but game 2, I had to mull down to 5 and then got stuck on 2 lands.
Round 3 was against mono red goblins. Got beat bad in game 1 as my opponent had 3 Goblin Guides out on turn 2. Game 2, I just didn't draw any threats. A pair of Vault Skirges and a Spellskite. No planeswalkers, (I run a pair of Jaces as well as Tezz), no swords, nothing else. I'm thinking about replacing the Probes with Porcelain Legionnaires. In most of the games I've lost, having a 3/1 first striker early on would have been amazing. Plus, give me something else to put a sword on.
I see lots of decks with only 23 lands, NeoItems' deck has a total of 61 cards. I thought it would be against all mathematics that this is good, but it seems to work?
the differences in drawing cards percentage wise from 60 to 61 cards is pretty minimal. i never use 61 cards, but it really doesnt hurt that much to have a single extra card.
23 lands seems very small tho. i cant really comment much on land count considering i play with 100% random shuffle, while most players play with manual shuffling a few times. under 100% shuffle i cant go below 26 lands, but that doesnt really mean much for all of you guys playing paper magic
do you really need 3 spellskite main? doesnt look like you have a lot of creatures, so maybe you could cut them. do you find they help enough with keeping your walkers alive to warrant using them mainboard? cool list btw. i like it
i dont think pro black from sword is enough to say dont play vault skirge.
i mean.. you can play sword of war and peace, but that doesnt stop people from playing squadron hawks and stoneforges lolz.
also, if he eats a burn spell, so what? thats one less burn spell pointed at your tezzeret or jace.
Tezzeret's ultimate only looks weak because people think you need to hit for lethal with it. If you get the opponent down to 4-6 life with it and keep Tezzeret on the table they are toast most of the time.
Try bumping him to 5 counters and blowing the ultimate with 5 artifacts on the table after they've already lost 4 to 6 life. You can consistently do this on turn 6 or 7 and they rarely recover from it.
The other factor that makes the ultimate look less strong than it is comes from people still playing Inkmoth Nexus and diffusing the win-cons into separate categories that do not mutually support each other and the win. Tezzeret's ultimate says "do not use infect or I'm not worth very much." If people choose to diffuse in that way then they deserve to have Tezzeret be much weaker than he otherwise is.
The arguement would be Precursor vs Batterskull or Skirge vs necessity of Swords in Tezz, but not Precursor Golem vs Vault Skirge.
4 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Glacial Fortress
4 Marsh Flats
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Vault Skirge
1 Batterskull
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Tumble Magnet
2 Despise
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Preordain
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
This has been working out fairly well. I'm not quite sure about the contagion clasps. Might swap them out for something more relevant. I'm finding that more draw power needs to be put in, so I might throw in big Jaces.
what line of play are you going to CONSISTENTLY get the following on turn 7:
tezz with 5+ counters
5 artifacts on the board
4 damage to them
you are living in magical christmas land. 99.999999% of magic players will see tezzeret not only as the biggest immediate threat almost all of the time, they will also realize that killing him is HUGE in winning, and getting ahead. people dont just let your tezzeret do whatever he wants do do, whenever he wants to do it.
no one is undervaluing tezz ult, were just saying that damn near all of the time you would rather be doing his +1 to keep him fueling your card advantage to win the attrition war, or making 5/5's. his ult costs 4 loyalty. you have to have 5 loyalty in order to ult and keep him alive. its almost always foolish to use his ultimate to deal a bit of damage here or there because gaining an extra artifact and at the same time gaining more loyalty will make him more of a threat rather than -4 loyalty, you take less than lethal, and now you kill my tezz and stop my CA that would have straight up won the game.
and honestly, if you have a tezzeret on the board with 5 loyalty counters with enough things to keep him alive, you have probably already won the game a few turns down the line, you dont need a 7 or 5 mana artifact (battlesphere, or precursor) to win with tezz ult, thats win-more. what neoitems said is spot on "Tezzeret's ultimate has also lost face with me because it is by far his weakest ability when it comes to general play. As a finisher it is amazing, against aggro it is amazing, but when it comes to the decks over all function and game plan, it is his weakest without a doubt."
this deck looks pretty cool
make sure if you sneak jace in somewhere you keep your artifact count at 15 or above, however.
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Inkmoth Nexus
6 Island
3 Swamp
2 Drowned Catacomb
3 Spellskite
2 Batterskull
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Karn Liberated
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
4 Preordain
4 Go For the Throat
4 Everflowing Chalice
3 Sphere of the Suns
4 Tumble Magnet
2 Doomblade
3 Black Sun Zenith
3 Memoricide
1 Spellskite
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Despise
I really want to see how Karn plays out and how effective Batterskull is. Also, I want to find out if Tezz's Gambit is the real deal with Chalice/Magnet.
4x tezz gambit, 4x preordain, 3x jace seems overkill IMO.
Vault Skirge is a horrible card without Tezzeret. Even when I have Tezzeret, I would rather turn a non-creature artifact into an artifact than pump Skirge. Even Hex Parasite would work much better than Skirge, when the secondary function of the creature slot currently occupied by Porcelain Legionnaire is to have a nonblack creature to block an attacker equipped with Sword of Feast and Famine.
Torpor Orb stops
- Stoneforge Mystic & Squadron Hawk
- Avenger of Zendikar (no plants -> landfall is useless)
- Titans' ETB trigger, after which I have 4x Tumble Magnet to keep them tapped
- Splinter Twin combo by hitting Deceiver Exarch
Now, how much % of the metagame do the aforementioned decks represent? Exactly.
If you had looked at my manabase, you would have noticed that all of my 25 lands produce :b:. There is a chance that the 4th land will come into play tapped, but Obliterator is generally fine even as a T5 play. Well, better than Precursor Golem IMO.
My next objective will be to test Phyrexian Metamorph in the Phylactery Lich slot.
And saying porcelain legionaire is better cause it's nonblack to block sword of feast and famine is ridiculous since people will be running sword of war and peace probably just as common. Hex parasite is better than legionaire because it could guard any sword carrier but the main sword carriers of caw-blade would be s-hawks and they would fly right over.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=317396
Vault Skirge is not THAT horrible without Tezz but I think it's better suited in an aggro Tezz build with swords/Batterskull.
It's value is a little higher in builds that plan to abuse Phyrexian mana.
@eg2jdm. I like your build and I would replace 2 Clasp's with 2 Tezzeret's Gambit and since you are going to throw Vault Skirge in the deck why not run Dismember? You could -1 Preordain and Despise for 2 of it...
And I have to ask...why not just run Squadron Hawks?
Thanks to Dantcg for the Sig!
Turn 1: Inquisition of Kozilek/Preordain
Turn 2: Sphere of the Suns/Phyrexian Revoker
Turn 3: Tumble Magnet/IoK or Preordain + Sphere of the Suns or Phyrexian Revoker/Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Turn 4: Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas/Whatever
Turn 5: Precursor Golem blow the ultimate.
You don't have to do 4 damage to the opponent, often they've done 1 or 2 to themselves by that point. The capability to hit them a couple of times with something like Phyrexian Revoker is there but usually you swing once with a Tumble Magnet or targeted removal clearing the way and they're sitting at 16 or so when you have Tezzeret at 5 on turn 5, 6, 7.
If this was not a tapout meta things would play very differently, but it's a tapout meta.
You are missing either how the game actually works, viable strategy or something...
Tezzeret's Ultimate is something I have always only eve found useful in situations where it is easier to just drop artifact after artifact. Now days, the deck has become so much more reactive then it has been in the past. Playing like that is going to cause you to lose many games. Reactiveness is what Tezzeret has needed since Paris, and it is now getting it.
Poison may go against the grain when it comes to a plan which uses damage to win, but you have to keep in mind if you get to the point where you are able to equip Inkmoth's and protect them, the game is essentially sealed and they are on a small clock. a bladed inkmoth is as good as a 6/6 flyer that goes un-answered. meshing in an alternate win condition like that allows players to play around things like memoricide, which is something past Tezzeret Decks have had to worry about, which is the reason Koth was even ran in the list back before New Phyrexia.
Tezzeret's Ultimate is an opportunistic ability, beyond that it is virtually useless when you are running cards to push a MUCH more stable game plan through.
As far as needing Pieces for the deck to be good (as someone mentioned), You are playing a control game, you have time, if you do not have time, make time. Everything you need is in 2 piece combinations which vary. VS and Tez, Tez and inkmoth, Sword and inkmoth, sword and Vault skirge, sword and spellskite, spellskite and tezzeret. You should not have a problem setting yourself up for the win.
As far as probe goes, it is working well as a 2 of along side 3 preordains for me... perfectly in fact. Only think I might change is Tezzeret's Gambit, which I might drop in favor of counter or discard.
Sounds way to far fetched. Sure it can happen. But if you are not staring at caw blade, you are staring at something else. Plays like that are disrupted often and consistently. That white steed you are on is actually a unicorn, and that plane you are in is not Mirrodin, it is magical christmas land.
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
The only way to deal with CawBlade is to beat it on the board or heavily disrupt it before it can get started. The sequence I gave you is a perfect example of both effects in play.
And suggesting that I'll get off a 1cc spell early when there are 8+ in the deck, followed by a 2cc spell when there are 12+ in the deck, followed by effective play otherwise is not magical wonderland, it's the way most games play out.
Not really sure where you're going here but it's not towards reality.
Yeah... I suppose you are right. I am sorry, I was thinking people were playing Spell Pierce and Inquisition as a 4 of now days. Besides, Blue and Black are the weakest colors in standard right now anyways...
Yes, you are in christmas land. Such a play will roll over to Deciever Twin, Valakut is NEVER going to let Tezzeret actually sit through an upkeep on your end, Caw Blade is not going to let you tap out 5 turns in a row, RUG is going to kill Tezzeret before you get through an upkeep with him as well.
Your game plan is one to be used in magical christmas land or against HORRID players at an FNM. Simple as that.
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
Just about everybody is playing the 4 Preordain. 2-4 Spell Pierce goes into a lot of lists also but it doesn't go into tapout builds at the 4 level and often not at the 2 level. 4 Inquisition of Kozilek goes into everything that is splashing or playing black at this point.
All I can say to this is that we're obviously playing in very different metas. The only meta I play in at the moment is MTGO, and I find it to be about as harsh as the PTQ's I have attended. This is mainly because you see the absolute top lists and you see a ton of rogue pointy lists trying to kill you or totally disrupt you by turn 4. You never see Timmy online because there's a casual room which is where all of those lists go to play.
Yeah... exactly. Sorry but those two cards kill your tap out plan. And they see play where it counts.
Haha.. yeah I am sorry, I thought it was Paper Magic that really counted.
All sarcasm aside, the decks I listed are from a 5k which, is actually very relevant even if it was just a day after the set's initial release. From this 5k, lists will form consistency. Caw-Blade is packing Spell Pierce and IoK in some the most popular variant. Deciever Twin is the expected deck, they pack not only IoK but Duress... 7 1 casting cost discard spells to trap you when you want to start taping out for a stupid curve like that of what you are suggesting.
Bottom line is, is that every deck you should be expecting right not, is going to have a very viable way to puncture your seal within your tap out plan. Sorry but we are in developing competitive, the nonsense you are suggesting is not really valid in that it is a strategy which lacks consistency but also a general game plan for others to use, it really contributes nothing to the thread.
I don't mean to dog on you but in reality, the approach you are suggesting, is atrocious and even counter productive to be honest.
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
Here's my current build. I'm still tweaking a bunch of things and playing around with NPH cards (like tezz gambit and vault skirge) but I'd love input or to hear if anyone has been trying this approach. Thanks!
7 Swamp
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Hex Parasite
2 Spellskite
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Thopter Assembly
1 Blightsteel Colossus
3 Everflowing Chalice
4 Tumble Magnet
1 Contagion Engine
1 MindSlaver
3 Black Suns Zenith
2 Despise
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Preordain
3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
This build tends to be very tempo based and reactive. I tend to try and use the tumble magnets and hand disruption to slow the opponent down until I can BSZ. I also try and play a PW turn 3 or 4 (preferably waiting for them to tapout). Then at that point I usually can start churning out my threats and protecting them with spellskite and the magnets. Contagion engine has also been huge for me as both a PW pumper, sweeper, magnet refiller, and ramp (via spheres and chalices).
I'd love to sneak some of my sideboard spell pierces into the main but don't know what to take for them. I've thought about removing Jace entirely as i need the space and he's one of the first cards I sideboard out in most matches... I just have a mental block since Jace is just that good... I'm thinking a 1x Karn with 2x spell pierce might be a good swap though...
Thanks for any input!
Concerns:
4 Mana accel. is enough?
Moltensteel Dragon seems ok. Red flying blocker that survives a FnF Equipped Hawk.
A WnP Equipped hawk gets Vault Skirge.
Artifacts
2x Everflowing Chalice
2x Sphere of the Suns
2x Tumble Magnet
1x Sword of War and Peace
1x Moltensteel Dragon
3x Spellskite
4x Vault Skirge
2x Hex Parasite
Land
3x Island
4x Swamp
4x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Darkslick Shores
4x Drowned Catacomb
3x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Tectonic Edge
Planeswalkers
2x Jace Beleren
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Spells
2x Dismember
3x Mana Leak
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Preordain
Sideboard
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Argent Sphinx
2x Go for the Throat
3x Spell Pierce
3x Into the Roil
2x Black Sun's Zenith
3x Despise
So what you are telling him is that he needs to remove 6 of his 16 artifacts out and increase the curve on his list? also taking away early game threats and disruption.
and almost totally removing his card advantage from tez because he will be missing artifacts on his +1's.
Just tell him to play caw-blade lol.
i dont think the following cards are needed:
-contagion engine (you could tutor up the win instead of tutoring up a way to deal with little dudes)
-thopter assembly (reason below)
-hex parasite (again, you can tutor up the win instead of tutoring up a way to deal with something. this is probably better suited for SB)
in place of them i would go +2 spellskite and +1 forgemaster.
i'd also like to see a myr battlesphere 1 of in this list (its better than thopter because it does something right away, you dont have to wait and hope it doesnt get killed before upkeep). you could remove the wurmcoil and put battlesphere in its place.
whatever you do, however, i definitely think you will be wanting 4 spellskite and 4 forgemaster mainboard. spellskite is PERFECT for this style of tezz deck.
I used this deck tonight at a standard tournament going 2 - 2. I beat the mirror match and beat RUG and then lost to a mono white, equipment and flying deck. Game 1 was close, but game 2, I had to mull down to 5 and then got stuck on 2 lands.
Round 3 was against mono red goblins. Got beat bad in game 1 as my opponent had 3 Goblin Guides out on turn 2. Game 2, I just didn't draw any threats. A pair of Vault Skirges and a Spellskite. No planeswalkers, (I run a pair of Jaces as well as Tezz), no swords, nothing else. I'm thinking about replacing the Probes with Porcelain Legionnaires. In most of the games I've lost, having a 3/1 first striker early on would have been amazing. Plus, give me something else to put a sword on.
Here it be:
4 Darkslick shores
4 Creeping tar pit
2 drowned catacomb
4 inkmoth Nexus
2 tectonic edge
3 swamp
3 island
1 scalding tarn
3 spellskite
2 phyrexian metalmorph
1 myr battlesphere
Planeswalkers -8
4 jace the mindsulptor
4 tezzeret agent of bolas
Non Creature Artifacts-10
1 Batterskull
4 everflowing chalice
3 tumble magnet
2 contagion clasp
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Despise
1 manaleak
2 dismember
4 preordain
Thank you =)
the differences in drawing cards percentage wise from 60 to 61 cards is pretty minimal. i never use 61 cards, but it really doesnt hurt that much to have a single extra card.
23 lands seems very small tho. i cant really comment much on land count considering i play with 100% random shuffle, while most players play with manual shuffling a few times. under 100% shuffle i cant go below 26 lands, but that doesnt really mean much for all of you guys playing paper magic
do you really need 3 spellskite main? doesnt look like you have a lot of creatures, so maybe you could cut them. do you find they help enough with keeping your walkers alive to warrant using them mainboard? cool list btw. i like it