Well I really wanted Momentous Fall for card draw, another sac outlet for Persecutor, and life gain (which is mostly needed with a rock deck)
When I was home on lunch I built your list on workstation but I made some changes which I think are very beneficial. -3 bonesplinters, -2 smother -3 Vampire Aristocrat, + 4 Maelstrom Pulse, + 4 Lotus Cobra. This gives you better quality removal and brings your total ways to get rid of Percy to 13, dont forget that Gideon can kill him after you swing for the win. After testing this deck is very very strong, had several players scoop after turn 3 World Queller with no way to deal with it. Another player played Jace on his turn 4 the turn after I played World Queller and bounced him, I killed Jace with my cobra then replayed the Queller. Pretty sick right.
I was wondering if you could do a R/G/B version of ROCK in standard. My build is similar to something Jund-esque but has a more aggressive curve and lots of recursion. Here is the potential list.
The Bloodthrone Vampire has nice synergy with bloodghasts, and if necessary can be an additional creature to cast to recur a vengevine. I'm going to have to test a LOT and goldfish the deck a little bit more but it seems like it could have a decent amount of potential.
Seems almost silly to be running both red and green but not be playing the best creature in standard Bloodbraid Elf. You are kinda hindering yourself by not doing so, not to mention she lets you recur Vengevine if you cascade into a dude.
Here is my standard rock list pre-RoE. I went 3-1 with this list losing to 1 of 2 Jund decks I played my other opponents were ElfDrazi and R/BDW. Wish I had gotten to play 1 of the 2 U/W decks and there was an OtV deck there also I didn't get to play
It's pretty unpolished, so I'm looking for some input. Heart of the deck revolves around recursion with KotR/Skyfisher + Grim/Anthem. Goal of the deck is to either force them to overcommit or run into recursive dudes all day.
The list is unfocused because I am undecided on whether I should go with a more aggressive route ( removing Walls, adding more KotR, etc. ) or going for a soft recursive lock via land destruction ( more Edges, less critters/more removal main ). Also because I am toying with adding in the Vess to put all the pieces together.
Some stuff you might consider:
- Baneslayer. Done it. Don't want to go there, and not because of price. She's liable to removal just like all the rest of my dudes, except that she doesn't really do anything for me when she hits. I might consider it if I take a stronger control route, but without an EtB trigger she's kinda not worth it for me.
- Abyssal Persecutor. Falls into same category as above, and on top of it, I also want to keep my B coloured casting costs at a minimum. This deck is pretty colour-intensive as it is, although the lands flooding into my hand usually let me get around that.
- Inquisition of Kozilek/Duress. It fits the Rock theme well, but I don't run any supplementary discard for it, and I am not touching Bloodhusk Ritualist or Mind Rot. It's also not very relevant against fast aggro decks which give this deck headaches.
- Path to Exile. You may have noticed it's in the sideboard instead of mainboard. While I assure you that I indeed love Path as much as the next "omg op removal" guy, it's kind of counterintuitive to my secondary game plan.
I'm looking for some ideas that would make this deck run smoother, especially in the area of adjusting card numbers. Playtesting would be great.
Some matchup/boarding/tactics info for the people who want to try making this more competitive, as well as some thoughts on mainboard card numbers for those who see lots of X in their meta:
Jund:
Meh. If we get some good mana disruption going, we have a pretty decent game. We recover from both removal and Blightning decently well, and their lack of exile makes Grim Discovery a star in this MU.
I'd try to emphasize Realms Uncharted and Knight of the Reliquary here. Slowly playing out Walls and Knights and recurring them set you up for a strong mid game, where your goal is ideally to Day after they drop SGC/Broodmate/finisher, and recur as necessary. Almost all your permanents, barring Skyfisher, are must-Pulse/Terminate, anti-Bolt/Thunder. Expect Bloodwitch from the board, and keep a DoJ handy, or board in Vapors/keep Fleshbag.
-2 Fleshbag Marauder
-2 Kor Skyfisher
-2 Momentous Fall
+1 Wall of Omens
+1 Day of Judgment
+3 Path to Exile
+2 Celestial Purge
Boss Naya:
Pulse wrecks. Saving it for PWs is usually the right choice, although we are very much lacking in early removal, so use on creatures as necessary. Try to avoid playing out super early Knights, as you tend to run into issues when you try to Pulse. I'd also like to point out that we have a variety of ways to remove artifacts, so unless it's really necessary.. just go for the creature with Pulse.
Game 1 we are at a serious disadvantage due to mana dork spam and efficient beats, which is liable to take us into dead zone before we can set up. I try to answer this with Zealous Persecution, which is very efficient at sweeping dorks and winning Reliquary wars, even with Sledge. They usually try to run removal-light, similar to LSV's San Diego list, so don't be afraid to let them run into Day. Game plan is pretty typical, since they run less disruption and focus on beefing up their side of the board. Stick it out, Day of Judgment, drop a fatty, rinse and repeat.
Slimes are actually kind of bad here, as they usually arrive too late to do much except chump a Sledge-wielding dude. Holding Skyfisher for bouncing Knight and Pulse/Day is a strong play.
Yes this MU is pretty much why I have Fleshbags main. Also because they sac to Momentous Fall really pretty.
Well, we have answers to everything they can drop, and more in the board. Land destruction really hurts them as well, so this should be a walk in the park.
-1 Day of Judgment
+1 Marshal's Anthem
Vampires:
I hate Mind Sludge. I am seriously considering Duress simply for this, but unfortunately we don't have a strong mainboard answer to Sludge or Nocturnus. Gatekeeper ruins our slow play game, while our lack of instant-speed removal means they get in a free alpha strike with Nocturnus drop. Kalastria Highborn also racks up quite a number on us.
Postboard we have some answers, but the power level of Sludge kind of eats us alive. Not very good. With an auto-lose first game, we try to bring in all the spot removal we can get, and just out-late game them.
-2 Fleshbag Marauder
-2 Qasali Pridemage
-4 Kor Skyfisher
+4 Path to Exile
+2 Celestial Purge
+1 Consuming Vapors
+1 Day of Judgment
White Weenie:
The really fast, low land count version is what gives me fits. The more controllish one ( running DoJ ) is less played, and is pretty much what we do, so I won't really talk much about that.
We get pretty overwhelmed by fast aggro decks. Our plan first game is to get them to overcommit ( they often do anyway ), and try and force the BtE before alpha strike. Day of Judgment until their hand is empty. Don't be afraid to commit lots of critters to get them to force early damage through with above-mentioned BtE. Save Pulse for Planeswalkers and HotPs if you can, but forcing BtE before they build to critical mass is a strong play as well.
Postboard is a similar plan to Vamps, except that they don't have Sludge or an answer to playing out our guys slow. Should be pretty easy after that. The most important thing second game is to not let non-creature permanents accumulate. Saving Pulse for those Ajanis/Elspeths/HotPs is DEFINITELY your goal.
-2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
-2 Kor Skyfisher
-3 Acidic Slime
+4 Path to Exile
+2 Deathmark
+1 Consuming Vapors
Junk:
Same colours, different game plan. Combination of spot removal and hard sweep is winning. I don't really care about dorks in this game unless I see Stoneforge + Sledge/Collar. They just let them ramp faster into a fatty so I can sweep them :).
-2 Fleshbag Marauder
-2 Qasali Pridemage
-4 Acidic Slime
+4 Path to Exile
+2 Deathmark
+1 Day of Judgment
+1 Consuming Vapors
RDW:
We fold to them game one. Postboard brings in lots of instant speed exile and Persecution for enabling our guys to actually chump Hell's Thunder/Goblin Guide, as well as effectively eating Hellspark Elemental and Ball Lightning. I am also considering upping the count of Momentous Falls just because the lifegain really helps.
-2 Day of Judgment
-4 Acidic Slime
-1 Captain of the Watch
-2 Fleshbag Marauder
+4 Path to Exile
+2 Celestial Purge
+2 Zealous Persecution
+2 Wall of Omens
Mind Rot is an interesting card for G/B. Not sure where it fits in - maybe a stand in for Fleshbag marauder? I am having a hard time fighting polymorph with my build, specifically with all the Spawn tokens flying around, a turn 4 poly into emakrul or Iona is not uncommon.
RDW and Polymorph are the toughest matchups I've come against. The good news is thatI've been consistently rolling Jund Decks like no one's business.
Hopefully, you have enough of a threat level to where you don't need to consistantly make 3/3's. Where he really shines is his ult. which can be activated the 2nd he's in play. If you untap with creatures and him on the board it's pretty much gg.
Life gain is kinda relevant but, there's other ways to do it. Your list kinda looks like a less effective Eldrazi Green Variant. Even then Eldrazi Green runs Garruk.
Momentous Fall would be my suggestion for this deck. It's another sac outlet for Percy, life gain which is crucial, and card draw which rock decks like.
How does the list look now? I wanted pulses in there but I was only working off cards I had at the time, so I wrote the decklist without pulses.
Yeah that looks great now, I didnt know you didnt have the pulses so if you dont have those I would recommend for now you play 2 more oblivion ring and 2 bone splinters for your real list, and keep this list as an optimal list for now make changes as you see fit from testing. Get your hands on pulses they are definatley worth it, they bring this deck up a notch.
Love the deck, however I think it needs a bit more focus and the overall curve is pretty high.
On 'recursion' Grim Discovery and Marshal's Anthem form the heart of recursion, definite keep, this is core of the deck as I see it. I'd probably play 3 Discovery's, 3 Anthem's because having multiple discovery's but 0 creatures in the yard will hurt. A resolved Anthem with one or more kicks will win games, so I'd up the count to 3!
My thoughts on kor skyfisher: Although I like skyfisher a lot, I think it slow's the deck down to much. And bouncing a replay'ing a guy isn't something this deck is willing to do that much, you'd rather have the creature killed and resurrect it :). I would cut the skyfisher.
I think you need ramp :),
Anthem, Slime, Captain, etc... all require some heavy mana commitment. Knight of the White Orchid is an all-star in the white ramp department however netting double white consistently in this three colour deck will be to hard. Hierarch, Cobra etc all don't really synergies with the board sweepers, and the general feeling of Card Advantage this deck advocates. I think Ondu Giant deserves a try (wtb sakura tribe elder in this deck btw...), it finds the right colour, it accelerates, it has a decent body blocking BBE all day long and functions well with recursion spells.
Something like Kozilek's Predator is also an option. Anthem + tokens is funz, however generating only temporary and colourless ramp is a pitty : <.
More random thoughts: Wall of Omens says hi, 'enters the battlefield' keyline + it will help you reach the end game. Khalni Garden allow's kotr to fix a token so you can recycle fleshbag marauder without any troubles.
What is Elspeth, Knight-Errant doing, spitting tokens is fun however she doesn't directly remove threats, generate a threat or is recursable... I think she doesn't belong in this list, she is great vs controll however I would try Luminarch Ascension vs controll. World Queller fun card, however not good enough in this deck I guess...
Added a bit more creatures, upped the count on fleshbag and kotr, recursive sacs are great and so are huge body's + land tutors in the long game. Momentous Fall sounds great, however I don't think you need more card advantage and tempo loss. The moment you have a large creature sticking to the board you don't want to sac it and revive it, you want your opponents wasting tempo and cards on it whilst you recur the second threat.
What do you think?
Yeah that looks great now, I didnt know you didnt have the pulses so if you dont have those I would recommend for now you play 2 more oblivion ring and 2 bone splinters for your real list, and keep this list as an optimal list for now make changes as you see fit from testing. Get your hands on pulses they are definatley worth it, they bring this deck up a notch.
Mind Rot is an interesting card for G/B. Not sure where it fits in - maybe a stand in for Fleshbag marauder? I am having a hard time fighting polymorph with my build, specifically with all the Spawn tokens flying around, a turn 4 poly into emakrul or Iona is not uncommon.
RDW and Polymorph are the toughest matchups I've come against. The good news is thatI've been consistently rolling Jund Decks like no one's business.
RDW- The first thing you have to do is slow their tempo via chump blocking or creature removal. Use Captured Sunlight to not only gain much needed health but to get ahead also. I haven't had a problem yet with RDW.
Polymorph- This one is quite easy just wait to use an instant removal on thier poly target.
Sidenote- Thinking of adding Celestial Purge and maybe dropping the Hexmages for Gatekeeper or Nighthawk....
Hey I am running the dame colors but looks like I have a more ROCKsolid build (cuz I am playing rock). Check the list out in my sig just some suggestions.
Hey, my friend and I have been playing around with a rock deck and from the tests it seems pretty...well...rock solid (excuse the pun). The removal is plentiful, from removal to hand disruption. The monsters are forces to be reckoned with, being either huge hitters or ramp creatures. So far I'm pretty impressed with the dual color combination, so I would like to share my decklist in order to develop the deck fully:
I know what you're probably thinking "NO BLOODGHAST" and you're right; I need to fit him in there somewhere. If I do, I would prefer to keep Grim Discovery in the mainboard so I can have a bunch of monsters that just don't die. 3 Bloodghast should be fine, given I reduce the quantity of some other creature by 1. However, there are several different possibilities as far as green/black creatures that can be played. I was thinking something like Nest Invader, but the Eldrazi token sort of swayed away from the theme of the deck in my opinion. Still, would it be a terrible idea to have a bunch of chump blockers that can turn into mana?
As far as the removal, I feel like it's pretty solid. Vapors messes up a lot of people and can even give you some life back in return (especially good against Eldrazis and will get around Emrakul's effect.) Some times people won't even play a creature so you don't gain more life, leaving a potentially open field open for another turn. Inquistion of Kozilek is just a power house. It's a one drop distruption card that can remove anything from their hand that will be an early game adversary. Virulent Swipe is my personal favorite, as it can both buff a creature and provide the 'death touch' effect. Since it's an instant, you can save it for blocks and get a huge creature killed out of it. Next turn, given you have another creature on the field, you can buff them as well. Sometimes I'd get Putrid Leech to be a 7/7 on turn 3 with Turntimber Grove and Virulent Swipe.
As I know there can be many chances, I would like to see what you all think. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
The Eldrazi Temple is my super secret tech to be able to get 2 out of the 3 lands i want off of Lands Ungiven. People will be scared of eldrazi at first.
I think this is because the creatures provide redundancy with removal and distruption. Nighthawks often function as creature removal. Specter functions as discard. Gatekeepers function as creature removal. If you look at old rock builds though, like back when pernicious deed was playable, you will see ranges between how heavy they are on creatures usually from 12-25. There's always been considerable variation in the deck.
I like Mul Daya Channelers most of the time. People need to understand how to play it as a beater. Just like with Vampire Nocturnus in vampires, you save your fetches if possible to change your top card.
How is everyone liking Putrid Leech? It feels like a horrible topdeck anytime except early game. I'm thinking of taking Putrid Leech and Birds of Paradise to 3 ofs.
Thinking of dropping 2 leech for 2 channeler. My three drops might be hopelessly clogged at that point. Perhaps I'll drop a nighthawk and a leech.
I am also thinking of trying to run raging ravine, off birds and savage lands, and I suppose channelers if I include them.
I think this is because the creatures provide redundancy with removal and distruption. Nighthawks often function as creature removal. Specter functions as discard. Gatekeepers function as creature removal. If you look at old rock builds though, like back when pernicious deed was playable, you will see ranges between how heavy they are on creatures usually from 12-25. There's always been considerable variation in the deck.
Thinking of dropping 2 leech for 2 channeler. My three drops might be hopelessly clogged at that point. Perhaps I'll drop a nighthawk and a leech.
I am also thinking of trying to run raging ravine, off birds and savage lands, and I suppose channelers if I include them.
:/ Our thread got hijacked and has all sorts of random builds that are not B/G. If we want to develop this thread we need some more focus and 2-3 solid lists. We also need a primer with matchups and sideboarding as well.
"Be self critical, but divorce your sense of self from your play. You can’t let things affect you emotionally, but at the same time you have to really examine your choices, question them, and see what you could have done better."
- Jon Finkel
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Naya Shaman
Legacy
U/W Tempo
Belcher
Countertop Progenitus
Eva Green or Team America, depends on how I'm feeling
If you want an official G/B rock thread, start a new one and I'll lock this one. We're trying to clean up the forums so this will allow you guys to have a new thread.
Have no SB yet, need to work on that. So far this has dominated any creature strategy Ive run into. Probably falls limp vs. control, but thats solvable post SB in these colors.
My deck is very similar to Talroma's, save the sideboard (which I am still working on, namely, how do we not just scoop to red deck wins?) and running 3x harrow instead of the borderland ranger (the extra body netting us another fleshbag marauder) and 2 Dread Statuary, removing one tectonic edge.
has anyone tested protean hydra in this deck? The guy is so underrated, cant take damage, grows bigger, fits in your curve anywhere and as early as T2. He fits the rock build where every card is a threat.
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When I was home on lunch I built your list on workstation but I made some changes which I think are very beneficial. -3 bonesplinters, -2 smother -3 Vampire Aristocrat, + 4 Maelstrom Pulse, + 4 Lotus Cobra. This gives you better quality removal and brings your total ways to get rid of Percy to 13, dont forget that Gideon can kill him after you swing for the win. After testing this deck is very very strong, had several players scoop after turn 3 World Queller with no way to deal with it. Another player played Jace on his turn 4 the turn after I played World Queller and bounced him, I killed Jace with my cobra then replayed the Queller. Pretty sick right.
Top 16 Starcity Games 5k Seattle 2010
Seems almost silly to be running both red and green but not be playing the best creature in standard Bloodbraid Elf. You are kinda hindering yourself by not doing so, not to mention she lets you recur Vengevine if you cascade into a dude.
Top 16 Starcity Games 5k Seattle 2010
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Marsh Flats
4 Stirring Wildwood
4 Swamp
4 Forest
3 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Plains
1 Sejiri Steppe
Creatures
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Putrid Leech
3 Lotus Cobra
2 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
2 Thornling
4 Mind Rot
3 Captured Sunlight
3 Harrow
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Smother
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Duress
3 Deathmark
3 Doomblade
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
3 Vampire Hexmage
With RoE out there are a lot of choices to make this deck run even better....I will try to update this list with any RoE cards I find to fit better.
The deck idea looks good, but it kinda looks bad...
How about this?
4x Verdant Catacomb
4x Sunpetal Grove
2x Forests
4x Plains
6x Swamps
2x Ob Nixilius, the Fallen
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Abyssal Prosecutor
4x Wall of Omens
4x Putid Leech
3x Consuming Vapors
3x Path to Exile
3x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Day of Judgement
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Forest
3 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Stirring Wildwood
3 Evolving Wilds
Creature: 17
2 Captain of the Watch
1 Ant Queen
4 Acidic Slime
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Kor Skyfisher
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Marshal's Anthem
2 Day of Judgement
2 Momentous Fall
4 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Realms Uncharted
4 Grim Discovery
1 Day of Judgment
1 Marshal's Anthem
1 Consuming Vapors
2 Celestial Purge
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Wall of Omens
2 Deathmark
4 Path to Exile
It's pretty unpolished, so I'm looking for some input. Heart of the deck revolves around recursion with KotR/Skyfisher + Grim/Anthem. Goal of the deck is to either force them to overcommit or run into recursive dudes all day.
The list is unfocused because I am undecided on whether I should go with a more aggressive route ( removing Walls, adding more KotR, etc. ) or going for a soft recursive lock via land destruction ( more Edges, less critters/more removal main ). Also because I am toying with adding in the Vess to put all the pieces together.
Some stuff you might consider:
- Baneslayer. Done it. Don't want to go there, and not because of price. She's liable to removal just like all the rest of my dudes, except that she doesn't really do anything for me when she hits. I might consider it if I take a stronger control route, but without an EtB trigger she's kinda not worth it for me.
- Abyssal Persecutor. Falls into same category as above, and on top of it, I also want to keep my B coloured casting costs at a minimum. This deck is pretty colour-intensive as it is, although the lands flooding into my hand usually let me get around that.
- Inquisition of Kozilek/Duress. It fits the Rock theme well, but I don't run any supplementary discard for it, and I am not touching Bloodhusk Ritualist or Mind Rot. It's also not very relevant against fast aggro decks which give this deck headaches.
- Path to Exile. You may have noticed it's in the sideboard instead of mainboard. While I assure you that I indeed love Path as much as the next "omg op removal" guy, it's kind of counterintuitive to my secondary game plan.
I'm looking for some ideas that would make this deck run smoother, especially in the area of adjusting card numbers. Playtesting would be great.
Some matchup/boarding/tactics info for the people who want to try making this more competitive, as well as some thoughts on mainboard card numbers for those who see lots of X in their meta:
Jund:
Meh. If we get some good mana disruption going, we have a pretty decent game. We recover from both removal and Blightning decently well, and their lack of exile makes Grim Discovery a star in this MU.
I'd try to emphasize Realms Uncharted and Knight of the Reliquary here. Slowly playing out Walls and Knights and recurring them set you up for a strong mid game, where your goal is ideally to Day after they drop SGC/Broodmate/finisher, and recur as necessary. Almost all your permanents, barring Skyfisher, are must-Pulse/Terminate, anti-Bolt/Thunder. Expect Bloodwitch from the board, and keep a DoJ handy, or board in Vapors/keep Fleshbag.
-2 Fleshbag Marauder
-2 Kor Skyfisher
-2 Momentous Fall
+1 Wall of Omens
+1 Day of Judgment
+3 Path to Exile
+2 Celestial Purge
Boss Naya:
Pulse wrecks. Saving it for PWs is usually the right choice, although we are very much lacking in early removal, so use on creatures as necessary. Try to avoid playing out super early Knights, as you tend to run into issues when you try to Pulse. I'd also like to point out that we have a variety of ways to remove artifacts, so unless it's really necessary.. just go for the creature with Pulse.
Game 1 we are at a serious disadvantage due to mana dork spam and efficient beats, which is liable to take us into dead zone before we can set up. I try to answer this with Zealous Persecution, which is very efficient at sweeping dorks and winning Reliquary wars, even with Sledge. They usually try to run removal-light, similar to LSV's San Diego list, so don't be afraid to let them run into Day. Game plan is pretty typical, since they run less disruption and focus on beefing up their side of the board. Stick it out, Day of Judgment, drop a fatty, rinse and repeat.
Slimes are actually kind of bad here, as they usually arrive too late to do much except chump a Sledge-wielding dude. Holding Skyfisher for bouncing Knight and Pulse/Day is a strong play.
-2 Fleshbag Marauder
-2 Acidic Slime
+2 Deathmark
+2 Zealous Persecution
UW Control:
Yes this MU is pretty much why I have Fleshbags main. Also because they sac to Momentous Fall really pretty.
Well, we have answers to everything they can drop, and more in the board. Land destruction really hurts them as well, so this should be a walk in the park.
-1 Day of Judgment
+1 Marshal's Anthem
Vampires:
I hate Mind Sludge. I am seriously considering Duress simply for this, but unfortunately we don't have a strong mainboard answer to Sludge or Nocturnus. Gatekeeper ruins our slow play game, while our lack of instant-speed removal means they get in a free alpha strike with Nocturnus drop. Kalastria Highborn also racks up quite a number on us.
Postboard we have some answers, but the power level of Sludge kind of eats us alive. Not very good. With an auto-lose first game, we try to bring in all the spot removal we can get, and just out-late game them.
-2 Fleshbag Marauder
-2 Qasali Pridemage
-4 Kor Skyfisher
+4 Path to Exile
+2 Celestial Purge
+1 Consuming Vapors
+1 Day of Judgment
White Weenie:
The really fast, low land count version is what gives me fits. The more controllish one ( running DoJ ) is less played, and is pretty much what we do, so I won't really talk much about that.
We get pretty overwhelmed by fast aggro decks. Our plan first game is to get them to overcommit ( they often do anyway ), and try and force the BtE before alpha strike. Day of Judgment until their hand is empty. Don't be afraid to commit lots of critters to get them to force early damage through with above-mentioned BtE. Save Pulse for Planeswalkers and HotPs if you can, but forcing BtE before they build to critical mass is a strong play as well.
Postboard is a similar plan to Vamps, except that they don't have Sludge or an answer to playing out our guys slow. Should be pretty easy after that. The most important thing second game is to not let non-creature permanents accumulate. Saving Pulse for those Ajanis/Elspeths/HotPs is DEFINITELY your goal.
-2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
-2 Kor Skyfisher
-3 Acidic Slime
+4 Path to Exile
+2 Deathmark
+1 Consuming Vapors
Junk:
Same colours, different game plan. Combination of spot removal and hard sweep is winning. I don't really care about dorks in this game unless I see Stoneforge + Sledge/Collar. They just let them ramp faster into a fatty so I can sweep them :).
-2 Fleshbag Marauder
-2 Qasali Pridemage
-4 Acidic Slime
+4 Path to Exile
+2 Deathmark
+1 Day of Judgment
+1 Consuming Vapors
RDW:
We fold to them game one. Postboard brings in lots of instant speed exile and Persecution for enabling our guys to actually chump Hell's Thunder/Goblin Guide, as well as effectively eating Hellspark Elemental and Ball Lightning. I am also considering upping the count of Momentous Falls just because the lifegain really helps.
-2 Day of Judgment
-4 Acidic Slime
-1 Captain of the Watch
-2 Fleshbag Marauder
+4 Path to Exile
+2 Celestial Purge
+2 Zealous Persecution
+2 Wall of Omens
Bant:
Unsure. No solid testing done. Will update.
Trades
UBRTezzUBR
UMono-Blue-ControlU
RUGRiku of Two ReflectionsRUG
RDW and Polymorph are the toughest matchups I've come against. The good news is thatI've been consistently rolling Jund Decks like no one's business.
Is there a place in this deck for Acidic Slime? Vampire Nighthawk?
Momentous Fall would be my suggestion for this deck. It's another sac outlet for Percy, life gain which is crucial, and card draw which rock decks like.
Trades
UBRTezzUBR
UMono-Blue-ControlU
RUGRiku of Two ReflectionsRUG
Yeah that looks great now, I didnt know you didnt have the pulses so if you dont have those I would recommend for now you play 2 more oblivion ring and 2 bone splinters for your real list, and keep this list as an optimal list for now make changes as you see fit from testing. Get your hands on pulses they are definatley worth it, they bring this deck up a notch.
Top 16 Starcity Games 5k Seattle 2010
On 'recursion'
Grim Discovery and Marshal's Anthem form the heart of recursion, definite keep, this is core of the deck as I see it. I'd probably play 3 Discovery's, 3 Anthem's because having multiple discovery's but 0 creatures in the yard will hurt. A resolved Anthem with one or more kicks will win games, so I'd up the count to 3!
My thoughts on kor skyfisher: Although I like skyfisher a lot, I think it slow's the deck down to much. And bouncing a replay'ing a guy isn't something this deck is willing to do that much, you'd rather have the creature killed and resurrect it :). I would cut the skyfisher.
I think you need ramp :),
Anthem, Slime, Captain, etc... all require some heavy mana commitment. Knight of the White Orchid is an all-star in the white ramp department however netting double white consistently in this three colour deck will be to hard. Hierarch, Cobra etc all don't really synergies with the board sweepers, and the general feeling of Card Advantage this deck advocates. I think Ondu Giant deserves a try (wtb sakura tribe elder in this deck btw...), it finds the right colour, it accelerates, it has a decent body blocking BBE all day long and functions well with recursion spells.
Something like Kozilek's Predator is also an option. Anthem + tokens is funz, however generating only temporary and colourless ramp is a pitty : <.
More random thoughts:
Wall of Omens says hi, 'enters the battlefield' keyline + it will help you reach the end game.
Khalni Garden allow's kotr to fix a token so you can recycle fleshbag marauder without any troubles.
What is Elspeth, Knight-Errant doing, spitting tokens is fun however she doesn't directly remove threats, generate a threat or is recursable... I think she doesn't belong in this list, she is great vs controll however I would try Luminarch Ascension vs controll.
World Queller fun card, however not good enough in this deck I guess...
I'll test the following decklist:
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Forest
3 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Khalni Garden
1 Senjiri Steppe
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Captain of the Watch
4 Acidic Slime
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Wall of Omens
4 Ondu Giant
Non-creature: 13
3 Marshal's Anthem
2 Day of Judgement
3 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Realms Uncharted
3 Grim Discovery
Added a bit more creatures, upped the count on fleshbag and kotr, recursive sacs are great and so are huge body's + land tutors in the long game.
Momentous Fall sounds great, however I don't think you need more card advantage and tempo loss. The moment you have a large creature sticking to the board you don't want to sac it and revive it, you want your opponents wasting tempo and cards on it whilst you recur the second threat.
What do you think?
Greetings, Forseti
4 Baneslayer Angel
3 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Captain of the Watch
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
3 Day of Judgment
3 Everflowing Chalice
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Marshall's Anthem
3 Ajani Vengeant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Arid Mesa
10 Plains
7 Mountain
3 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 Day of Judgment
4 Kor Firewalker
1 Path to Exile
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Cunning Sparkmage
1 Basilisk Collar
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=220349
Thanks I appreciate the help
Trades
UBRTezzUBR
UMono-Blue-ControlU
RUGRiku of Two ReflectionsRUG
RDW- The first thing you have to do is slow their tempo via chump blocking or creature removal. Use Captured Sunlight to not only gain much needed health but to get ahead also. I haven't had a problem yet with RDW.
Polymorph- This one is quite easy just wait to use an instant removal on thier poly target.
Sidenote- Thinking of adding Celestial Purge and maybe dropping the Hexmages for Gatekeeper or Nighthawk....
Trades
UBRTezzUBR
UMono-Blue-ControlU
RUGRiku of Two ReflectionsRUG
4 Lotus Cobra
4 Arrogant Bloodlord
4 Mul Daya Channelers
4 Putrid Leech
Spells:
3 Vendetta
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Maelstrom Pulse (Smother or Mind Shatter if I don't want to spend $23 per)
2 Consuming Vapors
4 Virulent Swipe
2 Grim Discovery
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands:
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Tectonic Edge
9 Swamp
6 Forest
2 Turntimber Grove
I know what you're probably thinking "NO BLOODGHAST" and you're right; I need to fit him in there somewhere. If I do, I would prefer to keep Grim Discovery in the mainboard so I can have a bunch of monsters that just don't die. 3 Bloodghast should be fine, given I reduce the quantity of some other creature by 1. However, there are several different possibilities as far as green/black creatures that can be played. I was thinking something like Nest Invader, but the Eldrazi token sort of swayed away from the theme of the deck in my opinion. Still, would it be a terrible idea to have a bunch of chump blockers that can turn into mana?
As far as the removal, I feel like it's pretty solid. Vapors messes up a lot of people and can even give you some life back in return (especially good against Eldrazis and will get around Emrakul's effect.) Some times people won't even play a creature so you don't gain more life, leaving a potentially open field open for another turn. Inquistion of Kozilek is just a power house. It's a one drop distruption card that can remove anything from their hand that will be an early game adversary. Virulent Swipe is my personal favorite, as it can both buff a creature and provide the 'death touch' effect. Since it's an instant, you can save it for blocks and get a huge creature killed out of it. Next turn, given you have another creature on the field, you can buff them as well. Sometimes I'd get Putrid Leech to be a 7/7 on turn 3 with Turntimber Grove and Virulent Swipe.
As I know there can be many chances, I would like to see what you all think. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I think this is because the creatures provide redundancy with removal and distruption. Nighthawks often function as creature removal. Specter functions as discard. Gatekeepers function as creature removal. If you look at old rock builds though, like back when pernicious deed was playable, you will see ranges between how heavy they are on creatures usually from 12-25. There's always been considerable variation in the deck.
Thinking of dropping 2 leech for 2 channeler. My three drops might be hopelessly clogged at that point. Perhaps I'll drop a nighthawk and a leech.
I am also thinking of trying to run raging ravine, off birds and savage lands, and I suppose channelers if I include them.
:/ Our thread got hijacked and has all sorts of random builds that are not B/G. If we want to develop this thread we need some more focus and 2-3 solid lists. We also need a primer with matchups and sideboarding as well.
"Be self critical, but divorce your sense of self from your play. You can’t let things affect you emotionally, but at the same time you have to really examine your choices, question them, and see what you could have done better."
- Jon Finkel
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Naya Shaman
Legacy
U/W Tempo
Belcher
Countertop Progenitus
Eva Green or Team America, depends on how I'm feeling
My Trade list!
4 Mortician Beetle
3 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Master of the Wild Hunt
3 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Awakening Zone
4 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Eldrazi Monument
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
9 Swamp
7 Forest
Have no SB yet, need to work on that. So far this has dominated any creature strategy Ive run into. Probably falls limp vs. control, but thats solvable post SB in these colors.
drop a T1 Birds of Paradise to cast a T3 Lightmine Field
Trades
UBRTezzUBR
UMono-Blue-ControlU
RUGRiku of Two ReflectionsRUG
5 Forest
10 Swamp
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Dread Statuary
1 Gargoyle Castle
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Putrid Leech
2 Acidic Slime
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Grim Discovery
2 Consuming Vapors
2 Smother
1 Consume the Meek
RGRWolf Run RampGRG
Modern
UUUVial FishUUU
Legacy
BUGDredgeBUG
EDH
RUGCombo/ControlRUG
-Ralph Wigam