//** EDIT, FOR ALL THE PPL WHO DONT KNOW WHAT ROCK IS **//
What is rock? Rock plays magic "the way it was intended" using the best and most efficient of the available creatures, the best of the available removal spells, and distruption spells to play well into the midgame. The ability to perform well into the midgame, gets rock the label of a midrange deck -- however all midrange decks are not rocks. Generally Rock is a "fair deck" in that it doesn't rely on overly abusive or broken strategies or cards, and it doesn't usually try to break a format. As such Rocks are often not a first choice of players, since the wins aren't easy per se, but with rock you won't have any terrible matchups, and with a knowledge of the metagame and of your deck, you should have all the tools to perform well against decks. Rock strategies are usually based on gaining incrimental card advantage while disrupting the opponent with discard and other elements until you can smash their face in with an efficient creature.
We've all tried our hands at a standard viable rock in junk (WBG) colors but as we all know the mana base is too unstable without permanent duals to be dipping into BB, WW, and GG all in the same deck. So pretty much we lack disruption in that deck (though with the equipments and upcoming gideon jura I think the deck will more rockish)
But I think it's feasible in pure BG at the moment. I suppose one could do a WB midrange deck but it lacks the acceleration of G which is a core rock component. Will it be better than banslayer junk? Meh probably not, but it's still a noble effort.
I went 3-2 with this list on friday. R goblins beat me. I housed W weenie, housed UG chode, and housed W splash G for behemoth sledge and stirring wildwood, and came close against WBR control to the point of owning him with sorin's mindslaver in the first match. The WBR player boarded like 13 cards against me and I forgot to board slimes against his numerous oblivion ring in the final matchups which is what I'll blame the final match loss on. All the players I housed were visibly being very frustrated by this deck, some to the point of cursing.
I'm thinking a sweeper like infest would have been nice against the goblin player.
Love the list but I'm wondering if the two cards to cut aren't LoE. Sure he's good but he kind of clogs the 5 slot and you got some awesome early beats which in my mind almost makes him a 'win more' with the way the list runs.
About Sorin... While I love this walker to pieces I think a 1 of is nice with how this list runs (took it on a quick test run). Like I said earlier, its got awesome early beats so in my mind Sorin comes in late and helps in a pinch (if you get in one). I'm almost wondering if Liliana should join him as a 1-of also to bring the Garruk count up to 3.
Now I need to go get some pulses because this list and another BG Rock style I've seen is where I think I want to take my BR Abyssal. If I do get some pulses soon (fairly unlikely unless a buddy lets me borrow some, lol) I might sleeve this bad boy up and help you test it!
Love the list but I'm wondering if the two cards to cut aren't LoE. Sure he's good but he kind of clogs the 5 slot and you got some awesome early beats which in my mind almost makes him a 'win more' with the way the list runs.
About Sorin... While I love this walker to pieces I think a 1 of is nice with how this list runs (took it on a quick test run). Like I said earlier, its got awesome early beats so in my mind Sorin comes in late and helps in a pinch (if you get in one). I'm almost wondering if Liliana should join him as a 1-of also to bring the Garruk count up to 3.
Now I need to go get some pulses because this list and another BG Rock style I've seen is where I think I want to take my BR Abyssal. If I do get some pulses soon (fairly unlikely unless a buddy lets me borrow some, lol) I might sleeve this bad boy up and help you test it!
Thanks! I was thinking to cut the Lord as well. While I love him, he is not evasive, and doesn't get in there like the bloodwitch and the persecutor do. Cutting him also immediately lowers my curve. On liliana I am unsure. She's been instrumental in winning certain games when my hand is low and I need to tutor for removal ala gatekeeper and pulse.
I could up the persecutor count but this might be dangerous as I only have 8 "outs" for him at the moment.
As much as people try to hate on the hypnotic specter in standard, I have to say he gets the job done (especially my pimp full art altered ;)), especially with birds of paradise getting him out on turn two. If he hits them for even 2 damage, and then they waste a removal spell on him, the way I see it is like this: I have shocked them and forced them to choose and discard a card (their removal), and to discard at random, for a mere three mana. If he hits twice it can easily tip the scales for game. A lot of standard players don't even know what the card does which throws them for a loop when they seem him hit the board.
I was thinking about quest for the gravelord as a nice 1 drop for B but again the list seems tight and I see no room for it.
The percy's are nice but, you have to hold removal to kill him which ultimately turned me from him. If you cut him and LoE you could throw in Master of the Wild Hunt.
I've been tweaking this rock build for about a month now and it's been working great. Maybe some idea can come from it.
Persecutor needs more testing. I rarely got him into play. I think with only 2 he should be safe. They are usually going to want to off him before he reduces them to negative life while hoping you are holding no removal.
How's the slime working main for you? I'm assuming it gives you good disruption with the tectonic edge.
Overall I like your build however:
I like birds over explore: yeah explore restocks your hand but late game it's just a cycler. with 4 birds you have nice synergy with 12+ 3 drops
I prefer duress over mind rot: duress gives you that control which is instrumental to removing a controllers key cards or pulling any deck' removal so your early drops stick
I am unsure of grim discovery maindeck: however in your build it might be nice to pop back tectonics and slimes for double the fun. It might also be nice with Gatekeeper of Malakir.
I don't like both terramorphic expanse and savage lands in the same mana base. One advantage of a dual deck over a tri or more colored deck in standard is less tapped lands thus better tempo.
Overall though I like your build and will probably test some of the cards you have in there. Thanks for sharing.
Persecutor needs more testing. I rarely got him into play. I think with only 2 he should be safe. They are usually going to want to off him before he reduces them to negative life while hoping you are holding no removal.
How's the slime working main for you? I'm assuming it gives you good disruption with the tectonic edge.
Overall I like your build however:
I like birds over explore: yeah explore restocks your hand but late game it's just a cycler. with 4 birds you have nice synergy with 12+ 3 drops
I prefer duress over mind rot: duress gives you that control which is instrumental to removing a controllers key cards or pulling any deck' removal so your early drops stick
I am unsure of grim discovery maindeck: however in your build it might be nice to pop back tectonics and slimes for double the fun. It might also be nice with Gatekeeper of Malakir.
I don't like both terramorphic expanse and savage lands in the same mana base. One advantage of a dual deck over a tri or more colored deck in standard is less tapped lands thus better tempo.
Overall though I like your build and will probably test some of the cards you have in there. Thanks for sharing.
Slime works great, especially as another form of disruption along with tec edge and against controling O-Rings and other bothersome artifacts and/or enchantments. The deathtouch is very relevant as most are hesitant to block it if I want to attack and on the D can take down the largest of ground creatures(without first strike).
1) I originally had BoP but found it to pretty much be a lightning rod, while that may not be a good thing seeing as it will draw away attention from other threats, it doesn't help much. Explore on the other had is a good cantripper that ramps most of the time. Originally I had 4 SiB but, needed some ramp along with the deck thinning which is why I put in Explore.
2)The Duress vs. Mind Rot is a meta decision. Versus control, duress is strictly better but, in my meta it's very mid-range aggro so duress wins out.
3)It's better with Fleshbag but the main reason I put them in is for tec edge. I'm not complaining that I get back my creatures either though.
4)I was running into a lot of mana issues since the colors are so evenly balanced and Terramorphics fit well. They might not be necessary but i've had no qualms with them thus far.
I highly recommend checking out that link, there's a lot of builds and discussion that might intrigue you. You can even sign up and become a regular in the thread.
-=Edit=-
If I was going to put BoP back in i'd
-4 Hippy
-2 Explore
+2 SiB
+4 Birds
(I think either that or make a lot of 3-of's)
my friends and I are looking at developing a similar deck. But I was going to be using a heavier focus on persecutor. However it's going to use some cards we can't discuss yet because they're from roe.
The percy's are nice but, you have to hold removal to kill him which ultimately turned me from him. If you cut him and LoE you could throw in Master of the Wild Hunt.
There are many ways to deal with him at our disposal and having 2 of them is rather safe as previously said. I currently run 3 of them in my BR Abyssal and it runs smooth but I do have more outs to him with the lovely addition of red. Obviously this list won't include the red so having 8 outs to the 2 persies should be more than sufficient. Plus there is the Liliana factor were one can got tutor for that removal. With this list and the fact that it runs pulse also gives one the ability to put the 2 persies on the board with little to no fear.
I've been thinking that maybe the list should go something like:
-2 LoE
-1 Sorin
+1 Basilisk Collar.
While Sorin is nice, this list is mid range and he is way too late game in most cases. I'd almost much rather be dropping beats and putting a collar on them to pad my life total.
I did manage to get one pulse tonight so now time to get 3 more, lol.
There are many ways to deal with him at our disposal and having 2 of them is rather safe as previously said. I currently run 3 of them in my BR Abyssal and it runs smooth but I do have more outs to him with the lovely addition of red. Obviously this list won't include the red so having 8 outs to the 2 persies should be more than sufficient. Plus there is the Liliana factor were one can got tutor for that removal. With this list and the fact that it runs pulse also gives one the ability to put the 2 persies on the board with little to no fear.
I've been thinking that maybe the list should go something like:
-2 LoE
-1 Sorin
+1 Basilisk Collar.
While Sorin is nice, this list is mid range and he is way too late game in most cases. I'd almost much rather be dropping beats and putting a collar on them to pad my life total.
I did manage to get one pulse tonight so now time to get 3 more, lol.
In this creature heavy meta chances are you're going to need those 8 removal spell for opposing threats. Yes, liliana helps in that department but, still it may not be enough. Ig you're heart set on using percy I have a GB rock list with him and he's used quite effectively.
I suggest this because i find Garruk's token making ability his best in this deck, but he just goes on and dies on us after 3 tokens (if you aren't ramping). Also his +1 ability isn't as needed as you might think, because you run birds and the CMC of your spells aren't that high.
Now for Nissa Revane she lets us get a creature (Nissa's Chosen) and its her +1 ability, her 2nd ability is also a +1 ability, which will allow you to gain life! This a key ability vs aggro decks and RDWs.
Hopefully, you have enough of a threat level to where you don't need to consistantly make 3/3's. Where he really shines is his ult. which can be activated the 2nd he's in play. If you untap with creatures and him on the board it's pretty much gg.
Life gain is kinda relevant but, there's other ways to do it. Your list kinda looks like a less effective Eldrazi Green Variant. Even then Eldrazi Green runs Garruk.
In this creature heavy meta chances are you're going to need those 8 removal spell for opposing threats. Yes, liliana helps in that department but, still it may not be enough. Ig you're heart set on using percy I have a GB rock list with him and he's used quite effectively.
This is a hate list if anything else but could prove to be a good starting point.
Love this list as well.
Granted the removal will be needed but I've rarely run into a problem with my BR list where I didn't have enough removal (except vs jund) for their creatures AND my Persecutor. That list does however run quite a bit more removal so thats more than likely the case.
The only problem is the amount of sacrificing can turn on you sometimes. Which is why I have Necrogenesis in there. I haven't tested it since I put it in but, i'm sure it will help. Also, it has synergy with Garruk(token's + overrun/his +1 Becomes, "2:Put a 1/1 into play and untap up to 2 target lands." which is kinda cool.)
The only problem is the amount of sacrificing can turn on you sometimes. Which is why I have Necrogenesis in there. I haven't tested it since I put it in but, i'm sure it will help. Also, it has synergy with Garruk(token's + overrun/his +1 Becomes, "2:Put a 1/1 into play and untap up to 2 target lands." which is kinda cool.)
Lol necrogenesis. I kinda wanna do WBG zombies with eldrazi monument, there's only one zombie token producers in WBG color: cemetery reaper, and there's only one wb zombie: tidehollow sculler. So I was thinking UBG using lich lord of unx, necrogenesis, Garruk, and cemetery reaper as the token generators. Kinda janky but it could be interesting.
There's some good token generator on their way if you want to go that route. Like I said though, I couldn't get WGB Zombies to work. Better luck to you.
SO many good cards for this deck from rise of eldrazi! Kozileks inquisition is that early discard that we've been lacking in standard for so long. It pretty much replaces duress in all ways except for the ability to pull a cruel ultimatum, day of judgement, and some walkers from their hands.
I'm also not entirely sold on Vengevine, and thinking maybe Vampire Nighthawk. I feel the land count could come down by 2. Also, how do you guys feel about Leatherback Baloth and Rampaging Baloths. In testing, Lotus Cobra isn't is great as I'd hoped. Thoughts?
Edit: Some modifications I'd consider, -3 Lotus Cobra, -4 Vengevine, +2 Mul Daya Channelers, +1 Gatekeeper of Malakir, +1 Birds of Paradise, +3 Vampire Nighthawk/Leatherback Baloth
"Be self critical, but divorce your sense of self from your play. You can’t let things affect you emotionally, but at the same time you have to really examine your choices, question them, and see what you could have done better."
- Jon Finkel
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Naya Shaman
Legacy
U/W Tempo
Belcher
Countertop Progenitus
Eva Green or Team America, depends on how I'm feeling
I think we should include Grim Discovery... as for Realms uncharted... I'm not convinced that it will help this deck in any truly significant way.
I'd also support Vengevine, but not as a 4-of.. maybe just 2. Putrid Leech and Percy should be 4 -ofs, and I'd like to see Consuming Vapors included as well.
I'm not sure that mana dorks are needed at all- I think we can find better plays at every cmc.
Realms uncharted is a knight of reliquary / WBG junk card. It autopumps knights. I guess it could go in a land disruption version with slimes. They pitch your edge and you grim discovery it.
If you are running discard I feel you should try to run specter and mind shatter.
Yes, nighthawk pwns in rock builds. It's better than baloth as it screws your opponents game up more readily. Vengevine may be neat too. It warrants testing. Momentous fall is awesome. Mana monkies are up in the air: I run bloodwitch and a lot of three drops, and I like being able to drop specters and nighthawks on turn 2, therefore I run birds of paradise. I will probably try to shoe drana in as a 1 or 2 of. Her ability is pretty sick. Channelers are strictly better than cobras in this deck especially if you aren't running 5 or 6 drops like sorin or bloodwitch or thornling. Cobras are useful about 40% of the time assuming you use 40% land. Channelers will be a mana dork the same amount of time + a beatstick about 30% of the time.
Why vendetta over doomblade? There are no played regenerators in standard.
Why vendetta over doomblade? There are no played regenerators in standard.
With its reprint in RoE, it feels like the closest thing to Snuff Out in standard. It is B vs 1B, but maybe that isn't such a big deal in this format.
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BMinion of Clan Mono-BlackB
"Be self critical, but divorce your sense of self from your play. You can’t let things affect you emotionally, but at the same time you have to really examine your choices, question them, and see what you could have done better."
- Jon Finkel
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Naya Shaman
Legacy
U/W Tempo
Belcher
Countertop Progenitus
Eva Green or Team America, depends on how I'm feeling
How does the Mul Daya Channelers work for you? The card just doesnt seem to cut it. It needs to be in a deck where you can manipulate the top of your deck like something with blue (jace, halimar depths, ponder, etc.) I do thing consuming vapors needs to be in this deck. Its really good. I like vengevine but I havent had a chance to play it yet but I think it needs to be in a deck that is cantrip.dek or ranger.dek to be used to its fullest but who knows. For this deck realms uncharted no but grim discovery yes. I do like momentus fall + abyssal persecutor.
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On Emrakul, the Aeons Torn:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galspanic
#1 - What's the dumbest idea you ever had?
#2 - 15/15 for 15?
#1 - Make it dumber
#2 - Give it protection from removal and counter?
#1 - DUMBER!
#2 - Add Timewalk?
#1 - DAMN IT MAN, I SAID DUMB!! DUMB !!!
#2 - It destroys everything when it attacks.... And wait, I have a friend who plays mill decks... I want to beat him too.
#1 - Excellent!
I run about 15 spells give or take. If you are running more than that I wouldn't bother with the chanelers. At around that number you should be fine. So 75% of the time Mul-Daya Chanelers will be something other than a vanilla 2/2. I haven't tried it yet, but I think I'll go down 1 on nighthawk and 1 on leech for 2. I'm also going to try Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief as a 1 or 2 of. Her ability is really good and she can be a real bomb in the air.
Personally, I'd try something like this. Of course, I haven't played magic since lorwyn so what do I know. Consuming Vapors and Thought Gorger might be able to find a home in this deck as well. I think I might even go -1 Grim Discovery, -1 Mind Shatter for two Consuming Vapors. That card is tasty.
We've all tried our hands at a standard viable rock in junk (WBG) colors but as we all know the mana base is too unstable without permanent duals to be dipping into BB, WW, and GG all in the same deck. So pretty much we lack disruption in that deck (though with the equipments and upcoming gideon jura I think the deck will more rockish)
But I think it's feasible in pure BG at the moment. I suppose one could do a WB midrange deck but it lacks the acceleration of G which is a core rock component. Will it be better than banslayer junk? Meh probably not, but it's still a noble effort.
This is my current list (62, need to cut 2 cards)
1 Gargoyle Castle
4 Savage Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
7 Forest
8 Swamp
Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Hypnotic Specter
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Putrid Leech
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Lord of Extinction
2 Liliana Vess
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Duress
4 Maelstom Pulse
1 Sorin Markov
3 Acidic Slime
1 Malakir Bloodwitch
3 Great Sable Stag
4 Smother
4 Doomblade
I went 3-2 with this list on friday. R goblins beat me. I housed W weenie, housed UG chode, and housed W splash G for behemoth sledge and stirring wildwood, and came close against WBR control to the point of owning him with sorin's mindslaver in the first match. The WBR player boarded like 13 cards against me and I forgot to board slimes against his numerous oblivion ring in the final matchups which is what I'll blame the final match loss on. All the players I housed were visibly being very frustrated by this deck, some to the point of cursing.
I'm thinking a sweeper like infest would have been nice against the goblin player.
I'm thinking I need more Sorin Markov.
The WBR player suggested "bloodghast is good in a control deck", but I see this as a midrange deck, and I don't see a place for the 'ghast.
Thoughts?
About Sorin... While I love this walker to pieces I think a 1 of is nice with how this list runs (took it on a quick test run). Like I said earlier, its got awesome early beats so in my mind Sorin comes in late and helps in a pinch (if you get in one). I'm almost wondering if Liliana should join him as a 1-of also to bring the Garruk count up to 3.
Now I need to go get some pulses because this list and another BG Rock style I've seen is where I think I want to take my BR Abyssal. If I do get some pulses soon (fairly unlikely unless a buddy lets me borrow some, lol) I might sleeve this bad boy up and help you test it!
Thanks! I was thinking to cut the Lord as well. While I love him, he is not evasive, and doesn't get in there like the bloodwitch and the persecutor do. Cutting him also immediately lowers my curve. On liliana I am unsure. She's been instrumental in winning certain games when my hand is low and I need to tutor for removal ala gatekeeper and pulse.
I could up the persecutor count but this might be dangerous as I only have 8 "outs" for him at the moment.
As much as people try to hate on the hypnotic specter in standard, I have to say he gets the job done (especially my pimp full art altered ;)), especially with birds of paradise getting him out on turn two. If he hits them for even 2 damage, and then they waste a removal spell on him, the way I see it is like this: I have shocked them and forced them to choose and discard a card (their removal), and to discard at random, for a mere three mana. If he hits twice it can easily tip the scales for game. A lot of standard players don't even know what the card does which throws them for a loop when they seem him hit the board.
I was thinking about quest for the gravelord as a nice 1 drop for B but again the list seems tight and I see no room for it.
I've been tweaking this rock build for about a month now and it's been working great. Maybe some idea can come from it.
4 Verdant Catacombs
6 Swamp
5 Forest
3 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Tectonic Edge
3 Savage Lands
4 Putrid Leech
4 Master of the Wild Hunt
3 Acidic Slime
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Hypnotic Specter
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Sign in Blood
2 Explore
3 Grim Discovery
3 Mind Rot
3 Deathmark
3 Great Sable Stag
3 Infest
3 Vampire Hexmage
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
If you like to see an ongoing discussion of this archetype go here:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/22833197/ArchetypeThe_Rock?pg=1
How's the slime working main for you? I'm assuming it gives you good disruption with the tectonic edge.
Overall I like your build however:
Overall though I like your build and will probably test some of the cards you have in there. Thanks for sharing.
Slime works great, especially as another form of disruption along with tec edge and against controling O-Rings and other bothersome artifacts and/or enchantments. The deathtouch is very relevant as most are hesitant to block it if I want to attack and on the D can take down the largest of ground creatures(without first strike).
1) I originally had BoP but found it to pretty much be a lightning rod, while that may not be a good thing seeing as it will draw away attention from other threats, it doesn't help much. Explore on the other had is a good cantripper that ramps most of the time. Originally I had 4 SiB but, needed some ramp along with the deck thinning which is why I put in Explore.
2)The Duress vs. Mind Rot is a meta decision. Versus control, duress is strictly better but, in my meta it's very mid-range aggro so duress wins out.
3)It's better with Fleshbag but the main reason I put them in is for tec edge. I'm not complaining that I get back my creatures either though.
4)I was running into a lot of mana issues since the colors are so evenly balanced and Terramorphics fit well. They might not be necessary but i've had no qualms with them thus far.
I highly recommend checking out that link, there's a lot of builds and discussion that might intrigue you. You can even sign up and become a regular in the thread.
-=Edit=-
If I was going to put BoP back in i'd
-4 Hippy
-2 Explore
+2 SiB
+4 Birds
(I think either that or make a lot of 3-of's)
PSN: BlaqDove
Rules Advisor
Decks
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There are many ways to deal with him at our disposal and having 2 of them is rather safe as previously said. I currently run 3 of them in my BR Abyssal and it runs smooth but I do have more outs to him with the lovely addition of red. Obviously this list won't include the red so having 8 outs to the 2 persies should be more than sufficient. Plus there is the Liliana factor were one can got tutor for that removal. With this list and the fact that it runs pulse also gives one the ability to put the 2 persies on the board with little to no fear.
I've been thinking that maybe the list should go something like:
-2 LoE
-1 Sorin
+1 Basilisk Collar.
While Sorin is nice, this list is mid range and he is way too late game in most cases. I'd almost much rather be dropping beats and putting a collar on them to pad my life total.
I did manage to get one pulse tonight so now time to get 3 more, lol.
In this creature heavy meta chances are you're going to need those 8 removal spell for opposing threats. Yes, liliana helps in that department but, still it may not be enough. Ig you're heart set on using percy I have a GB rock list with him and he's used quite effectively.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Savage Lands
9 Swamp
4 Forest
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Putrid Leech
3 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Thornling
3 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Bone Splinters
3 Mind Rot
3 Grim Discovery
2 Necrogenesis
3 Deathmark
3 Infest
4 Turntimber Basilisk
3 Malikir Bloodwitch
2 Liliana Vess
This is a hate list if anything else but could prove to be a good starting point.
I suggest this because i find Garruk's token making ability his best in this deck, but he just goes on and dies on us after 3 tokens (if you aren't ramping). Also his +1 ability isn't as needed as you might think, because you run birds and the CMC of your spells aren't that high.
Now for Nissa Revane she lets us get a creature (Nissa's Chosen) and its her +1 ability, her 2nd ability is also a +1 ability, which will allow you to gain life! This a key ability vs aggro decks and RDWs.
Also Nissa's Chosen + Bone Splinters/Fleshbag Marauder -_^ and then search up the Chosen next turn.
This is the deck i might try:
4 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Nissa’s Chosen
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Lotus Cobra
3 Putrid Leech
3 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Maelstorm Pulse
3 Bone Splinter
3 Nissa Revane
3 Eldrazi Monument
3 Basilisk Collar
Land
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Raging Ravine
6 Swamp
4 Forest
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Marsh Flats
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Misty Rainforest
Raging Ravine is just a beast, and we can activate with BoP, or in my case a lotus cobra trigger.
Tezz Infect
EDH
:symb::symg::symw: Doran, the Exporan :symw::symg::symb:
Jhoira of the Storm
Ob Noxious, the Fallen
i!Huge thanks to Nakamura and the team at Heroes of the Planes Studios!i
Hopefully, you have enough of a threat level to where you don't need to consistantly make 3/3's. Where he really shines is his ult. which can be activated the 2nd he's in play. If you untap with creatures and him on the board it's pretty much gg.
Life gain is kinda relevant but, there's other ways to do it. Your list kinda looks like a less effective Eldrazi Green Variant. Even then Eldrazi Green runs Garruk.
Love this list as well.
Granted the removal will be needed but I've rarely run into a problem with my BR list where I didn't have enough removal (except vs jund) for their creatures AND my Persecutor. That list does however run quite a bit more removal so thats more than likely the case.
Lol necrogenesis. I kinda wanna do WBG zombies with eldrazi monument, there's only one zombie token producers in WBG color: cemetery reaper, and there's only one wb zombie: tidehollow sculler. So I was thinking UBG using lich lord of unx, necrogenesis, Garruk, and cemetery reaper as the token generators. Kinda janky but it could be interesting.
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Putrid Leech
2 Mul Daya Channelers
3 Lotus Cobra
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Vengevine
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Smother
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Momentous Fall
2 Vendetta
Land [24]:
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
5 Swamp
5 Forest
3 Savage Lands
3 Tectonic Edge
I'm also not entirely sold on Vengevine, and thinking maybe Vampire Nighthawk. I feel the land count could come down by 2. Also, how do you guys feel about Leatherback Baloth and Rampaging Baloths. In testing, Lotus Cobra isn't is great as I'd hoped. Thoughts?
Edit: Some modifications I'd consider, -3 Lotus Cobra, -4 Vengevine, +2 Mul Daya Channelers, +1 Gatekeeper of Malakir, +1 Birds of Paradise, +3 Vampire Nighthawk/Leatherback Baloth
This would make it:
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Putrid Leech
4 Mul Daya Channelers
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Vampire Nighthawk or 3 Leatherback Baloth
3 Smother
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Momentous Fall
2 Vendetta
Land [24]:
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
5 Swamp
5 Forest
3 Savage Lands
3 Tectonic Edge
Ob Nixilis seems as he could be nice, and again I'm liking how Rampaging Baloths could be. Hmm..
"Be self critical, but divorce your sense of self from your play. You can’t let things affect you emotionally, but at the same time you have to really examine your choices, question them, and see what you could have done better."
- Jon Finkel
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Naya Shaman
Legacy
U/W Tempo
Belcher
Countertop Progenitus
Eva Green or Team America, depends on how I'm feeling
My Trade list!
I like your lists mcnubbins2t, but I think any GB Rock deck in type two should be sporting 2-3 Garruk. Hes rock solid.
I'd also support Vengevine, but not as a 4-of.. maybe just 2. Putrid Leech and Percy should be 4 -ofs, and I'd like to see Consuming Vapors included as well.
I'm not sure that mana dorks are needed at all- I think we can find better plays at every cmc.
If you are running discard I feel you should try to run specter and mind shatter.
Yes, nighthawk pwns in rock builds. It's better than baloth as it screws your opponents game up more readily. Vengevine may be neat too. It warrants testing. Momentous fall is awesome. Mana monkies are up in the air: I run bloodwitch and a lot of three drops, and I like being able to drop specters and nighthawks on turn 2, therefore I run birds of paradise. I will probably try to shoe drana in as a 1 or 2 of. Her ability is pretty sick. Channelers are strictly better than cobras in this deck especially if you aren't running 5 or 6 drops like sorin or bloodwitch or thornling. Cobras are useful about 40% of the time assuming you use 40% land. Channelers will be a mana dork the same amount of time + a beatstick about 30% of the time.
Why vendetta over doomblade? There are no played regenerators in standard.
With its reprint in RoE, it feels like the closest thing to Snuff Out in standard. It is B vs 1B, but maybe that isn't such a big deal in this format.
"Be self critical, but divorce your sense of self from your play. You can’t let things affect you emotionally, but at the same time you have to really examine your choices, question them, and see what you could have done better."
- Jon Finkel
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Naya Shaman
Legacy
U/W Tempo
Belcher
Countertop Progenitus
Eva Green or Team America, depends on how I'm feeling
My Trade list!
My H/W list
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galspanic
#1 - What's the dumbest idea you ever had?
#2 - 15/15 for 15?
#1 - Make it dumber
#2 - Give it protection from removal and counter?
#1 - DUMBER!
#2 - Add Timewalk?
#1 - DAMN IT MAN, I SAID DUMB!! DUMB !!!
#2 - It destroys everything when it attacks.... And wait, I have a friend who plays mill decks... I want to beat him too.
#1 - Excellent!
2x Tectonic Edge
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Misty Rainforest
7x Swamp
4x Forest
4x Putrid Leech
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Vengevine
2x Thornling
4x Vendetta
4x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Liliana Vess
3x Mind Shatter
2x Basilisk Collar
3x Grim Discovery
Personally, I'd try something like this. Of course, I haven't played magic since lorwyn so what do I know. Consuming Vapors and Thought Gorger might be able to find a home in this deck as well. I think I might even go -1 Grim Discovery, -1 Mind Shatter for two Consuming Vapors. That card is tasty.
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