So before NPH was spoiled I was running an esper tempered steel deck which allowed me to get access to Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas which makes the deck semi more resistant to board wipes, with the risk of losing consistency. The deck was fun to play but I never got it to work right mainly because my curve was rather horrendous.
So I have updated the deck a little bit to give it a lower curve with more threats off the back.
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So before NPH was spoiled I was running an esper tempered steel deck which allowed me to get access to Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas which makes the deck semi more resistant to board wipes, with the risk of losing consistency. The deck was fun to play but I never got it to work right mainly because my curve was rather horrendous.
So I have updated the deck a little bit to give it a lower curve with more threats off the back.
I have not test the deck at all but if I were to add black, this is what I would add it for.
it seems like the 2 slots you've devoted to Sphere of the Suns is kind of a waste; considering an aggro deck would never ever want to spend turn 2 laying down ramp.
Especially considering Tempered Steel on T3 is supposed to be a Coup de Grace.
I can see why you'd want it; colour fixing for Tezz, and the other black cards in your SB, but i think those 2 slots are better off as another Opal and another Hawkward Idol.
(it also doesn't seem like you'd want Creeping Tarpit/Celestial Collonade as lands, here. 4x Marsh Flats in their place? And consider Inkmoth Nexus if you want manlands; as they also serve as an alt win-con and Metalcraft Enablers)
it seems like the 2 slots you've devoted to Sphere of the Suns is kind of a waste; considering an aggro deck would never ever want to spend turn 2 laying down ramp.
Especially considering Tempered Steel on T3 is supposed to be a Coup de Grace.
I can see why you'd want it; colour fixing for Tezz, and the other black cards in your SB, but i think those 2 slots are better off as another Opal and another Hawkward Idol.
(it also doesn't seem like you'd want Creeping Tarpit/Celestial Collonade as lands, here. 4x Marsh Flats in their place? And consider Inkmoth Nexus if you want manlands; as they also serve as an alt win-con and Metalcraft Enablers)
I am weary of running more than two opals because they are atrocious in multiples and I have no way of putting them back in the deck. The sphere of suns actully lets me get a turn 2 Tezz on the field. land Memnite, memnite, Opal sphere. Next turn land, Tezzeret which with the older version of the deck happened a alot. Plus turning it into a 5/5 creature with tezz is not a bad idea either.
But with the lands, I kind of agree with not having the man lands at least not the colonades. I like the tar pits though and they combine nicely with signal pest. But Inkmoth for Colonades might be a lot better idea especially with tezz in the deck, and Tempered steel. So that makes a lot of sense.
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4 Seachrome Coast
4 Island
12 Plains
--------------------------
I like to play the Mitotic Manipulation, because usually I end up digging up a second Tempered Steel, if not just another Etched Champion. It's a card that doesn't see much play, and I like to surprise people with it. =3 I like the Stoic Rebuttle and Negate for stopping board wipes and removal for key players on the board, and the Mox helps for mana fixing. After some testing I did end up taking out the Dread Sanctuary for Contagion clasp. It works as removal, or just making their stuff smaller while my stuff gets tough. Rawr.
Welcome to the forum, You should use the [DECKdelete this][/DECK] function to ease reading decks.
You should try out spell pierce and unified will instead, it words better around the curve, and just asking, why not glacial fortress instead of the islands.
I would try to make space for Glint hawk idol and/or Chimeric Mass, 'cause top decking after a mass removal (Bsz or Day of Judgment) is a real pain.
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what about brave the elements? has that been discussed? and glint hawk idol > glint hawk
brave the elements only works on white creatures; thusly, i don't think it will be of much value. But isn't there another W instant that gives any single creature pro-anything?
I am weary of running more than two opals because they are atrocious in multiples and I have no way of putting them back in the deck. The sphere of suns actully lets me get a turn 2 Tezz on the field. land Memnite, memnite, Opal sphere. Next turn land, Tezzeret which with the older version of the deck happened a alot. Plus turning it into a 5/5 creature with tezz is not a bad idea either.
But with the lands, I kind of agree with not having the man lands at least not the colonades. I like the tar pits though and they combine nicely with signal pest. But Inkmoth for Colonades might be a lot better idea especially with tezz in the deck, and Tempered steel. So that makes a lot of sense.
Ah, I suppose an aggro deck wouldn't mind spending T1 ramping into a 4cc Planeswalker that makes anyone a 5/5 and is a mini lead the stampede every turn. I completely missed that; And it's actually still quite a fast start considering you'll either knock them for 5 on T2 or start filling your hand and eventually just burning them out of the game.
Hello. I'm just getting back in Standard and wanted to create a Standard deck that could be converted into a Legacy deck after rotation. I haven't played since States, but I know how to play this deck because I play Affinity with my friends.
Ive been working the deck out a lot and this version seems the most simplistic for the plays it can make. Unfortunately, the deck is made without any regards to sideboard. One option for sideboard is Torpor Orb, stops Caw-Blade in its tracks. This deck already has Jace hate main-deck, so this tops the Caw-Blade hate.
*edit: added Myrsmith to ensure a little mid-game action.
Won out at a local tourney versus BR Vamps, RUG, Eldrazi Green, and Esper Blade. Two players were pretty bad, one was ok, and one is in the 1900 rating range, so I was happy with it. Actual decklist to come when I'm not on my phone.
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Jace bounce was a -1. He could do it 3 times before he would die. Liliana can only do it once before having to do her +1. Overall very disappointed with her unless we get Madness.
Crap, you're right, she's not as good as one of the single most overpowered cards ever printed. Unplayable!
More Steel Overseers, not less! The deck's problem? Consistency - I could count the number of games I've lost with a t3 Tempered Steel on very few fingers. Overseer, played on t2, gives your t1 plays the effect of Tempered Steel by turn 4, and half that by turn three.
What hands can you keep? Tempered Steel with Mana, Overseer with 2-3 other creatures, and double Signal Pest with other stuff.
There are other, more marginal keeps, but generally you mulligan if there's no kind of boost in your 7. Double Overseers isn't really a problem - one can swing while the other pumps the team, or you can double-pump stuff (especially good on Inkmoths and Glint Hawk Idols).
As for Inkmoth not being as good - that card IS the late game. You can play around anything short of a Tec Edge, and with early Overseer counters or Tempered Steel plus an initial hit for 1, it's a 3 turn clock. Double TS gives you a 2 turn clock, which is pretty dangerous if your opponent spends his time wrathing the board.
I think that some combination might be right though - 2 Contested Warzones and 3-4 Inkmoth nexus is definitely viable in Mono-White, and not too far off for W/u, though you'd need the full set of mox opals and U/W lands.
More Steel Overseers, not less! The deck's problem? Consistency - I could count the number of games I've lost with a t3 Tempered Steel on very few fingers. Overseer, played on t2, gives your t1 plays the effect of Tempered Steel by turn 4, and half that by turn three.
What hands can you keep? Tempered Steel with Mana, Overseer with 2-3 other creatures, and double Signal Pest with other stuff.
There are other, more marginal keeps, but generally you mulligan if there's no kind of boost in your 7. Double Overseers isn't really a problem - one can swing while the other pumps the team, or you can double-pump stuff (especially good on Inkmoths and Glint Hawk Idols).
As for Inkmoth not being as good - that card IS the late game. You can play around anything short of a Tec Edge, and with early Overseer counters or Tempered Steel plus an initial hit for 1, it's a 3 turn clock. Double TS gives you a 2 turn clock, which is pretty dangerous if your opponent spends his time wrathing the board.
I think that some combination might be right though - 2 Contested Warzones and 3-4 Inkmoth nexus is definitely viable in Mono-White, and not too far off for W/u, though you'd need the full set of mox opals and U/W lands.
I have played against decks that had the overseers and that did not have the overseers, and everytime I have played decks with overseers they got killed because quite frankly the overseers slow down the deck. The ones that did not play the overseers in my opinion were faster because I knew every creature they had on the field was going to be attacking and I had to account for them. When I see a player dropping a Steel overseer, I think sweet free turn, and I know it is one less threat they could of dropped, instead I know that the overseer will never tap and attack.
I play another swarm deck that especially with an artifact aggro deck if you do not kill me by turn 3, you will not beat me which is also the case with a lot of decks in standard right now. If you do not beat Caw Blade by turn 4, your pretty much dead. Board wipe, then gideon and the game is over for you. Valakut? Game 1 if you do not beat them by turn 4 they will win. Game 2 and 3, they will side in clasms, slimes and claims. The thing is Playing steel overseer will make it next to impossible to consistently win by turn 4.
I would much rather play a couple of 0 drops, plains, opal, pest, pest. Turn 2 Tempered steel pest than play turn 2 Overseer any day of the week. And now that NPH has Vault Skirge, and Porcelain Legionare, I would rather play those creatures over overseer as well because they are extra beats.
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I would much rather play a couple of 0 drops, plains, opal, pest, pest. Turn 2 Tempered steel pest than play turn 2 Overseer any day of the week.
So would I. But... how often do you get the godhand? How does this deck win without landing Tempered Steel? Overseer is a large part of the answer. It's slower, it's vulnerable to removal, it's... the only other option for 4 more lord effects.
I can only speak from experience, but I generally find the Caw-Blade matchup goes 6-10 turns, between them wrathing the board or dropping Gideon, or simply playing blockers. Between Revokers, counters and Glint Hawk Idol/Inkmoth Nexus, there's a lot of options to slow THEM down and recover from a board wipe. I won a game where my opponent cast Gideon 3 times. I've won through multiple DoJs. I've lost when my opponent has been stuck on 3 mana from turns 4-7. The deck is inconsistent. If you can show me how taking out the only other pump effect we have helps with that, then fine, I will consider it. Until then though, I'd rather kill people on turn 4-5 and do it all the time, than cross my fingers and just hope to draw the perfect 7 cards.
Consistency / resilience vs explosiveness is where this deck is different to Kuldotha Red, and part of the reason that people played it on the Pro Tour. Vault Skirge, Porcelain Leigonaire and Hex Parasite have a place in this deck, but not at the expense of the Overseer - Ardent Recruits and Glint Hawks bite the bullet instead.
P.S. Valakut gives you until a turn 5 swing with Primeval Titan to kill them, and often they need another turn. Caw Blade can't shut you down completely thanks to Glint Hawk Idols and Tempered Steel. Vengevines don't start recurring until turn 4, and don't kill in one hit. It's fine to kill people on turn 5, but making sure that it happens is the key.
Not gonna be good enough to stop Splinter Twin/Exarch killing on Turn 4...
Hence the reason why if I play this deck I am going Esper colors to get access to counters, hand disruption and instant speed removal/bounce.
Having tezz makes the deck a tons more resistant as well then play steel overseer.
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Not gonna be good enough to stop Splinter Twin/Exarch killing on Turn 4...
This deck is being over-hyped. I can't even count the amount of games I haven't drawn a Tempered Steel (don't need it to win, but if I did AND relied on another 4-of card to show up, well, I wouldn't be playing this deck). The chances of the combo deck drawing both cards they need for the combo two games in a row is around 6% or less (considering normal draws up to turn 4...Preordain would help to some extent). The percent of drawing both combo pieces by turn 4 over the course on an entire tournament would become laughable. There's also the potential to draw light on land even if you do get the combo, then disruption from the opponent, etc. Any deck that relies solely on the combo will have issues. As I've mentioned elsewhere before, our current standard doesn't have anywhere near the tutor/draw abilities that famous combo decks of the past have had.
Obviously, this combo will need to find the deck that allows a win without the combo, but doesn't get ruined by only drawing half the combo. If this deck shows well, it won't solely be because of the combo, though I admit it's strong. As with Tempered Steel, the skill of the player will make a large difference, despite what appears to be a straightforward deck in both cases.
Ultimately, Tempered Steel can run Torpor Orb and Dispatch in the SB. If this combo gets played a lot and runs Mental Misstep, we could run Dismember in the SB. Though again, the chances of the combo going off by turn 4 are rather slim, and even slimmer that they'll get it by then in two games, especially after we SB in disruption.
I'm really looking forward to Dispatch and Porcelain Legionnaire, among other things.
I know this sounds insane, but what do you guys think about Inexorable Tide? As a 2 of at absolute most, it seems like it could provide a boost late game once you get +1/+1 counters on your guys from the overseer and poison counters on your opponent from Inkmoth Nexus. It's probably jank but it seems like it would really help with the recovery from board sweeps and increase the diversity of threats.
Edit: Forget everything I said. For some reason in my memory it was a 4-drop and not a 5-drop haha.
On Inexorable Tide, I can't begin to count the ways that it is a terrible card, but I'll try to start. 1. It costs 5 mana. 2. It costs double blue. That's all I really need.
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Jace bounce was a -1. He could do it 3 times before he would die. Liliana can only do it once before having to do her +1. Overall very disappointed with her unless we get Madness.
Crap, you're right, she's not as good as one of the single most overpowered cards ever printed. Unplayable!
On Inexorable Tide, I can't begin to count the ways that it is a terrible card, but I'll try to start. 1. It costs 5 mana. 2. It costs double blue. That's all I really need.
Yeahhhhh, I realized my mistake after I posted it. It wouldn't be thaaaaaat bad as a 4-drop riiiight?
So would I. But... how often do you get the godhand? How does this deck win without landing Tempered Steel? Overseer is a large part of the answer. It's slower, it's vulnerable to removal, it's... the only other option for 4 more lord effects.
I can only speak from experience, but I generally find the Caw-Blade matchup goes 6-10 turns, between them wrathing the board or dropping Gideon, or simply playing blockers. Between Revokers, counters and Glint Hawk Idol/Inkmoth Nexus, there's a lot of options to slow THEM down and recover from a board wipe. I won a game where my opponent cast Gideon 3 times. I've won through multiple DoJs. I've lost when my opponent has been stuck on 3 mana from turns 4-7. The deck is inconsistent. If you can show me how taking out the only other pump effect we have helps with that, then fine, I will consider it. Until then though, I'd rather kill people on turn 4-5 and do it all the time, than cross my fingers and just hope to draw the perfect 7 cards.
Consistency / resilience vs explosiveness is where this deck is different to Kuldotha Red, and part of the reason that people played it on the Pro Tour. Vault Skirge, Porcelain Leigonaire and Hex Parasite have a place in this deck, but not at the expense of the Overseer - Ardent Recruits and Glint Hawks bite the bullet instead.
P.S. Valakut gives you until a turn 5 swing with Primeval Titan to kill them, and often they need another turn. Caw Blade can't shut you down completely thanks to Glint Hawk Idols and Tempered Steel. Vengevines don't start recurring until turn 4, and don't kill in one hit. It's fine to kill people on turn 5, but making sure that it happens is the key.
I agree completely. I tried playing the deck without overseers, and it's way slower without it than it is with overseers. If you don't have tempered steel, then overseer actually lets you do something with all those free 1/1s and 0/2s you just played on turn 1. And if you do have tempered steel in hand, then it doesn't matter what your 2 drop is because you're as close to winning as you're gonna be anyway
I agree completely. I tried playing the deck without overseers, and it's way slower without it than it is with overseers. If you don't have tempered steel, then overseer actually lets you do something with all those free 1/1s and 0/2s you just played on turn 1. And if you do have tempered steel in hand, then it doesn't matter what your 2 drop is because you're as close to winning as you're gonna be anyway
I didn't think Overseer was all that great at first either, but he definitely helps win the long games and can make a difference early on as well.
However, if you don't play Signal Pest turn 1 and can't possibly cast a Tempered Steel turn 2, then you don't cast Ornithopter turn 1. Also, if you cast Glint Hawk Idol turn 2 and know you can cast Tempered Steel turn 3, you also don't cast Ornithopter turn 2 (if it's the only free artifact in your hand). In that scenario, Tempered Steel will leave you tapped out with no way to fly over for 4 with your GHI--Ornithopter fixes that (he would have only hit for 2 on his own).
I can't remember how many times in limited that I've informed players they shouldn't cast Accorder's Shield without an immediate purpose for it. No sense in casting 0 cost artifacts to give your opponent free information and a target.
@Dstryker: The list looks pretty good to me. Hovermyr in place of Ardent Recruit should be okay. The potential speed loss is traded with flying, vigilance, and TS/Overseer working for it. 4 Mox may be 1 too many--even with 3, I draw multiples fairly often and rarely have an opponent playing them as well. K-Red at least has ways to sacrifice a Mox to eliminate the multiple issue.
Sideboard for this deck will be complicated until we see what people are actually playing at tournaments. All the hype about Exarch/Splinter Twin means it will probably see play and that we'll have to plan for it. I'm pretty sure I'll be taking a Tempered Steel deck to the SCG Open on May 14th, so hopefully the FNM on the 13th will give me a fair idea of how the SB should be. Also, I'll likely start playtesting with NPH cards after the pre-release.
Jace bounce was a -1. He could do it 3 times before he would die. Liliana can only do it once before having to do her +1. Overall very disappointed with her unless we get Madness.
Crap, you're right, she's not as good as one of the single most overpowered cards ever printed. Unplayable!
Hex Parasite replaces Vector Asp IMHO, but only testing will tell.
He's undoubtedly better than Vector Asp, but likely not better than Vault Skirge in the main (nobody will be playing Vector Asp here anymore--poison is only an occasional win, and much more occasional that Vector Asp even helps towards it).
still trying to decide between the mono white and the red splash i am really liking the W/r battlecry build post NPH. its up on the R/W artifact aggro page 59 if anyones intersted. my mono white looks like this
So I have updated the deck a little bit to give it a lower curve with more threats off the back.
4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
4 Porcelain Legionaire
4 Hex Parasite
Artifacts (6)
2 Glint Hawk Idol
2 Mox Opal
2 Sphere of the suns
Spells (12)
4 Tempered Steel
3 Spell Pierce
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Tezzeret's Gambit
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Creeping Tar Pit
6 Plains
4 Swamp
4 Island
3 Tumble Magnet
2 Chirmeric Mass
2 Doomblade
2 Go for the Throat
2 Duress
2 Inquistion of Kozilek
2 Marrow Shards
I have not test the deck at all but if I were to add black, this is what I would add it for.
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it seems like the 2 slots you've devoted to Sphere of the Suns is kind of a waste; considering an aggro deck would never ever want to spend turn 2 laying down ramp.
Especially considering Tempered Steel on T3 is supposed to be a Coup de Grace.
I can see why you'd want it; colour fixing for Tezz, and the other black cards in your SB, but i think those 2 slots are better off as another Opal and another Hawkward Idol.
(it also doesn't seem like you'd want Creeping Tarpit/Celestial Collonade as lands, here. 4x Marsh Flats in their place? And consider Inkmoth Nexus if you want manlands; as they also serve as an alt win-con and Metalcraft Enablers)
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I am weary of running more than two opals because they are atrocious in multiples and I have no way of putting them back in the deck. The sphere of suns actully lets me get a turn 2 Tezz on the field. land Memnite, memnite, Opal sphere. Next turn land, Tezzeret which with the older version of the deck happened a alot. Plus turning it into a 5/5 creature with tezz is not a bad idea either.
But with the lands, I kind of agree with not having the man lands at least not the colonades. I like the tar pits though and they combine nicely with signal pest. But Inkmoth for Colonades might be a lot better idea especially with tezz in the deck, and Tempered steel. So that makes a lot of sense.
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Welcome to the forum, You should use the [DECKdelete this][/DECK] function to ease reading decks.
You should try out spell pierce and unified will instead, it words better around the curve, and just asking, why not glacial fortress instead of the islands.
I would try to make space for Glint hawk idol and/or Chimeric Mass, 'cause top decking after a mass removal (Bsz or Day of Judgment) is a real pain.
:symw::symb:Steel Wb Weenie
brave the elements only works on white creatures; thusly, i don't think it will be of much value. But isn't there another W instant that gives any single creature pro-anything?
Ah, I suppose an aggro deck wouldn't mind spending T1 ramping into a 4cc Planeswalker that makes anyone a 5/5 and is a mini lead the stampede every turn. I completely missed that; And it's actually still quite a fast start considering you'll either knock them for 5 on T2 or start filling your hand and eventually just burning them out of the game.
I might give that a try ^^
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4 Memnite
4 Hex Parasite
3 Vault Skirge
4 Signal Pest
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Porcelain Legionnaire
4 Hover Myr
3 Myrsmith
3 Glint Hawk Idol
4 Tempered Steel
4 Contested War Zone
14 Plains
Ive been working the deck out a lot and this version seems the most simplistic for the plays it can make. Unfortunately, the deck is made without any regards to sideboard. One option for sideboard is Torpor Orb, stops Caw-Blade in its tracks. This deck already has Jace hate main-deck, so this tops the Caw-Blade hate.
*edit: added Myrsmith to ensure a little mid-game action.
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-On Liliana of the Veil
What hands can you keep? Tempered Steel with Mana, Overseer with 2-3 other creatures, and double Signal Pest with other stuff.
There are other, more marginal keeps, but generally you mulligan if there's no kind of boost in your 7. Double Overseers isn't really a problem - one can swing while the other pumps the team, or you can double-pump stuff (especially good on Inkmoths and Glint Hawk Idols).
As for Inkmoth not being as good - that card IS the late game. You can play around anything short of a Tec Edge, and with early Overseer counters or Tempered Steel plus an initial hit for 1, it's a 3 turn clock. Double TS gives you a 2 turn clock, which is pretty dangerous if your opponent spends his time wrathing the board.
I think that some combination might be right though - 2 Contested Warzones and 3-4 Inkmoth nexus is definitely viable in Mono-White, and not too far off for W/u, though you'd need the full set of mox opals and U/W lands.
I have played against decks that had the overseers and that did not have the overseers, and everytime I have played decks with overseers they got killed because quite frankly the overseers slow down the deck. The ones that did not play the overseers in my opinion were faster because I knew every creature they had on the field was going to be attacking and I had to account for them. When I see a player dropping a Steel overseer, I think sweet free turn, and I know it is one less threat they could of dropped, instead I know that the overseer will never tap and attack.
I play another swarm deck that especially with an artifact aggro deck if you do not kill me by turn 3, you will not beat me which is also the case with a lot of decks in standard right now. If you do not beat Caw Blade by turn 4, your pretty much dead. Board wipe, then gideon and the game is over for you. Valakut? Game 1 if you do not beat them by turn 4 they will win. Game 2 and 3, they will side in clasms, slimes and claims. The thing is Playing steel overseer will make it next to impossible to consistently win by turn 4.
I would much rather play a couple of 0 drops, plains, opal, pest, pest. Turn 2 Tempered steel pest than play turn 2 Overseer any day of the week. And now that NPH has Vault Skirge, and Porcelain Legionare, I would rather play those creatures over overseer as well because they are extra beats.
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So would I. But... how often do you get the godhand? How does this deck win without landing Tempered Steel? Overseer is a large part of the answer. It's slower, it's vulnerable to removal, it's... the only other option for 4 more lord effects.
I can only speak from experience, but I generally find the Caw-Blade matchup goes 6-10 turns, between them wrathing the board or dropping Gideon, or simply playing blockers. Between Revokers, counters and Glint Hawk Idol/Inkmoth Nexus, there's a lot of options to slow THEM down and recover from a board wipe. I won a game where my opponent cast Gideon 3 times. I've won through multiple DoJs. I've lost when my opponent has been stuck on 3 mana from turns 4-7. The deck is inconsistent. If you can show me how taking out the only other pump effect we have helps with that, then fine, I will consider it. Until then though, I'd rather kill people on turn 4-5 and do it all the time, than cross my fingers and just hope to draw the perfect 7 cards.
Consistency / resilience vs explosiveness is where this deck is different to Kuldotha Red, and part of the reason that people played it on the Pro Tour. Vault Skirge, Porcelain Leigonaire and Hex Parasite have a place in this deck, but not at the expense of the Overseer - Ardent Recruits and Glint Hawks bite the bullet instead.
P.S. Valakut gives you until a turn 5 swing with Primeval Titan to kill them, and often they need another turn. Caw Blade can't shut you down completely thanks to Glint Hawk Idols and Tempered Steel. Vengevines don't start recurring until turn 4, and don't kill in one hit. It's fine to kill people on turn 5, but making sure that it happens is the key.
Not gonna be good enough to stop Splinter Twin/Exarch killing on Turn 4...
Hence the reason why if I play this deck I am going Esper colors to get access to counters, hand disruption and instant speed removal/bounce.
Having tezz makes the deck a tons more resistant as well then play steel overseer.
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Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
This deck is being over-hyped. I can't even count the amount of games I haven't drawn a Tempered Steel (don't need it to win, but if I did AND relied on another 4-of card to show up, well, I wouldn't be playing this deck). The chances of the combo deck drawing both cards they need for the combo two games in a row is around 6% or less (considering normal draws up to turn 4...Preordain would help to some extent). The percent of drawing both combo pieces by turn 4 over the course on an entire tournament would become laughable. There's also the potential to draw light on land even if you do get the combo, then disruption from the opponent, etc. Any deck that relies solely on the combo will have issues. As I've mentioned elsewhere before, our current standard doesn't have anywhere near the tutor/draw abilities that famous combo decks of the past have had.
Obviously, this combo will need to find the deck that allows a win without the combo, but doesn't get ruined by only drawing half the combo. If this deck shows well, it won't solely be because of the combo, though I admit it's strong. As with Tempered Steel, the skill of the player will make a large difference, despite what appears to be a straightforward deck in both cases.
Ultimately, Tempered Steel can run Torpor Orb and Dispatch in the SB. If this combo gets played a lot and runs Mental Misstep, we could run Dismember in the SB. Though again, the chances of the combo going off by turn 4 are rather slim, and even slimmer that they'll get it by then in two games, especially after we SB in disruption.
I know this sounds insane, but what do you guys think about Inexorable Tide? As a 2 of at absolute most, it seems like it could provide a boost late game once you get +1/+1 counters on your guys from the overseer and poison counters on your opponent from Inkmoth Nexus. It's probably jank but it seems like it would really help with the recovery from board sweeps and increase the diversity of threats.
Edit: Forget everything I said. For some reason in my memory it was a 4-drop and not a 5-drop haha.
@MarkBGH on Twitter | Bloody Good Horror
Level 2 Judge since 12/01/2012
-On Liliana of the Veil
Yeahhhhh, I realized my mistake after I posted it. It wouldn't be thaaaaaat bad as a 4-drop riiiight?
@MarkBGH on Twitter | Bloody Good Horror
I agree completely. I tried playing the deck without overseers, and it's way slower without it than it is with overseers. If you don't have tempered steel, then overseer actually lets you do something with all those free 1/1s and 0/2s you just played on turn 1. And if you do have tempered steel in hand, then it doesn't matter what your 2 drop is because you're as close to winning as you're gonna be anyway
Even if it were a 2 drop in white, I still wouldn't see how it could help a non-infect based Tempered Steel deck
Splinter twin reads :
So yes, it's the creature that has the ability.
4x Glint Hawk
4x Hovermyr
4x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x Signal Pest
4x Steel Overseer
4x Vault Skirge
2x Chimeric Mass
4x Glint Hawk Idol
4x Mox Opal
4x Tempered Steel
Lands - 18
4x Inkmouth Nexus
2x Island
8x Plains
4x Seachrome Coast
4x Hex Parasite
4x Dispatch
4x Spell Pierce
2x Unified Will
1x Glacial Fortress
I find Hovermyr to be better then Porcelain Legionnaire because of its evasion and Vigilance.
As for the sideboard, I've used everything regularly except Hex Parasite because I'm not really sure where I should be pulling him in. Any thoughts?
I didn't think Overseer was all that great at first either, but he definitely helps win the long games and can make a difference early on as well.
However, if you don't play Signal Pest turn 1 and can't possibly cast a Tempered Steel turn 2, then you don't cast Ornithopter turn 1. Also, if you cast Glint Hawk Idol turn 2 and know you can cast Tempered Steel turn 3, you also don't cast Ornithopter turn 2 (if it's the only free artifact in your hand). In that scenario, Tempered Steel will leave you tapped out with no way to fly over for 4 with your GHI--Ornithopter fixes that (he would have only hit for 2 on his own).
I can't remember how many times in limited that I've informed players they shouldn't cast Accorder's Shield without an immediate purpose for it. No sense in casting 0 cost artifacts to give your opponent free information and a target.
@Dstryker: The list looks pretty good to me. Hovermyr in place of Ardent Recruit should be okay. The potential speed loss is traded with flying, vigilance, and TS/Overseer working for it. 4 Mox may be 1 too many--even with 3, I draw multiples fairly often and rarely have an opponent playing them as well. K-Red at least has ways to sacrifice a Mox to eliminate the multiple issue.
Sideboard for this deck will be complicated until we see what people are actually playing at tournaments. All the hype about Exarch/Splinter Twin means it will probably see play and that we'll have to plan for it. I'm pretty sure I'll be taking a Tempered Steel deck to the SCG Open on May 14th, so hopefully the FNM on the 13th will give me a fair idea of how the SB should be. Also, I'll likely start playtesting with NPH cards after the pre-release.
Level 2 Judge since 12/01/2012
-On Liliana of the Veil
He's undoubtedly better than Vector Asp, but likely not better than Vault Skirge in the main (nobody will be playing Vector Asp here anymore--poison is only an occasional win, and much more occasional that Vector Asp even helps towards it).
4x signal pest
4x memnite
4x ornithopter
4x vault skirge
4x hovermyr
3x steel overseer
3x etched champion
4x dispatch
4x tempered steel
3x mox opal
2x contested warzone
14x plains
pretty consistent can anyone talk me out of galvanic blast and jor kadeen by spreading some mono-white tech?