I am not keen on Vengevine in this deck. Without reliable recursion, he just doesnt do it for me. Maybe its because I havent tried him. I used to play him when Bloodbraid Elf could be played with him, but without BBE I dont feel VV pulls his weight. How often does his recursion come into play?
Hey guys, I don't play this deck but I have some opinions I'd like to share.
DOLZero: Have you had problems with Aether Adept being your only 3-drop? Consider adding a Sea Gate Oracle. Exarch is alright, but only for moving from 2 to 4. Drawing him's kinda lame.
You also might consider 1 Metamorph. You can copy a big opposing creature, then Pod into a 6 or 7-drop.
ryansolid: I know you like Oracle of Mul Daya, but I don't think it works all that great with your plan. You don't have all that much to ramp into, and you're only running 24 lands (8 fetches). She's also a poor threat. Maybe swap her for a 4th Pod?
I'd put 1 wurmcoil back in for frost titan. Sometimes its the only thing that can save you, and it's definitely the best thing to search for if you're on the attack.
Evilpandy: I think you might be hurting yourself with the CIPT lands; it kinda works against your ramp. Halimar Depths are alright I guess, but I'd replace the Terramorphics with basic land.
Ok, the more I think about this color combo, the more I like it. I'll be picking up UB duals and sleeving this up tomorrow with my own spin on it. Let you guys know how things go.
@Aura - a fourth Pod is usually something you don't want in this type of deck, I've been trying to play it since it was leaked, and the only time I found I wanted another Pod was when I'd actually rather have a Voltaic Key, which is why I use 1 Key and 2 Mage's in my list, since it provides value.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I like Pandas. They're so chill.
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
@Aura - a fourth Pod is usually something you don't want in this type of deck, I've been trying to play it since it was leaked, and the only time I found I wanted another Pod was when I'd actually rather have a Voltaic Key, which is why I use 1 Key and 2 Mage's in my list, since it provides value.
There's really no reason not to run 4 Pods. If they remove one, it's always good to have a second one in hand.
Just throughout playing (only FNM's and online for this deck, sadly) I've never wanted another when I have one on board. If they kill it, I've usually already gotten an activation, and if that happens then I'm likely ahead in position anyway.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I like Pandas. They're so chill.
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
Ryan: Do you really think sheoldred + 2 removal spells warrant black? Seems you've cut entomber exarch, which I assumed was the main reason anyone ran black in the first place.
Yeah mainly the black is to up combo post board and for Creeping Tarpit. It helps to have removal to which these colors usually lack. Dismember existing changes that but the life can be harder.
The biggest thing for me is I tried to make UG manabases and realised even running Tectonic Edge was not feasible. Maybe as a 2 of. 24 Lands in UG means 14 Blue sources and 14 Green sources. Adding 2 Tectonic Edges makes it 13 a piece basically. You can hedge up green obviously in a list like this but you end up with like 16 Green and 12 Blue. In the end the difference between 2 and 3 colors for fixing is very small.. I run 13, 13, 13 at 24 lands but it could easily be 14 13 12 or 15 12 12 without even getting into Evolving Wilds. At 24 I admit it's a bit tough.. once you go to 25 or 26 though there is almost no reason to run straight UG. Like at 26 you get maybe 16 and 14 but in UGB you get 15 14 14 or 16 14 13. The more even the UG color split is the more it makes sense to go for the 3rd color. If the deck is predominantly green would probably be the only argument for sticking UG. The small splash is almost painless given we'd be running the 8 fetches anyway.
I love Entomber Exarch. I could work him in again but it's always matter of consistency versus utility. I decided I needed to make the list a bit more aggressive. So instead of running as 1 of I was thinking of going another direction. He may have enough Utility to justify it. I realised that without running enough other discard effects he was narrow. I could always board heavily into him but I have better black answers to combo postboard. Having him as a 1 of might be critical or it might be completely dead against Valakut or Exarch. Where I wanted to Duress against Control Vengevine pretty much took the place, as it both nulls permission (nets you CA in the long run if they counter it) and it nulls DoJ, and it pressures Planeswalkers. I'm still playing around with the 4 slot. It is the area I consider the most fluid. I really like my top end and the core lower CMC stuff has been coming together.
I am not keen on Vengevine in this deck. Without reliable recursion, he just doesnt do it for me. Maybe its because I havent tried him. I used to play him when Bloodbraid Elf could be played with him, but without BBE I dont feel VV pulls his weight. How often does his recursion come into play?
I wasn't keen either. Notice no Fauna Shaman etc. I have played those decks to death the last year. I went as far as saying that without Jace Squadron Hawks provides the only reasonable CA for those type of decks. I have probably drove this topic into the ground in the Shaman thread, but I will iterate a few points here.
Vengevine has been used successfully in really 3 Types of deck in Standard although people typically only focus on the ones since the printing of Fauna Shaman:
The first one that comes to mind is the old Bloodbraid Elf Naya where he just was added aggressiveness on everything. He was almost like a pump spell or more suitably I heard him dubbed the "Green Lightning Bolt". That deck would only chain a Vengevine or 2 and basically used Shaman to fetch out Bloodbraid Elfs the most powerful card in the deck. Decks like GW Jumanji(fueled off Lead the Stampede) are like this too where you just flood the board with creatures so Vengevine just becomes value into the midgame since you are trying to just beat down. Blumanji(and the UGx decks in the fall) were similar to this too except instead of blazing out the gates with creatures they used Tempo 2 for 1's to make time for Vengevine.
The second was alongside Fauna Shaman in creature based combo deck (Fauna Bant Conscription, Exarch Twin, Ezuri Elves, GW Quest), or toolbox deck (GW Stoneforge Shaman) since it was easy value to a deck to give a deck that wanted the Shaman for redundancy and consistency. Being able to alternatively win by beatdown was good for these decks. Again these decks chaining Vengevines wasn't always plan A.
The third is Next Level Bant a deck with Vengevine pre-Fauna Shaman. In fact Fauna Shaman sort of goes against the theory of the deck. It's a deck that plays all cantrip creatures like Sea Gate Oracle and Wall of Omens and Vengevines. Every card is an ETB 2 for 1 and in so no individual creature is worth removal(unlike Shaman who is). It used to eek out incremental advantage until Elspeth starts throwing flying 7/6 Vengevines at the opponent or 4/3 Flying Sea Gate Oracles or 7/7 Celestial Colonnades or maybe it throws all the Vengevines up for one alpha strike recurred by a Ranger of Eos.
All these ideas are related and decks use elements of all but I'm looking more at Next Level Bant than the others in the list (and to some degree Blumanji). There is no Fauna Shaman for a reason. Vengevine I don't run just for instant gratification (other that to get removal or permission used on it or some quick haste damage.. don't underestimate quick haste damage) but because the ability to gain value over the longer game. Pod is interesting because it makes every creature worth removal even the worthless ones so you are playing a similar game plan where it's relevant. You're asking them to kill your Sea Gate Oracles and Vengevines and Acidic Slimes. Even if you don't necessarily recur them they've probably done their job (Vengevine as a haster is like an ETB).
As for the recursion itself Kor Skyfisher was in Next Level Bant and was cut as not that good.. I think Aether Adept and Entomber Exarch used in the same sort of fashion are doable but probably not as good anyway. And Consecrated Sphinx seems like a perfect Successor to Sphinx of Lost Truth. If it lives it is all you need to recurr Vengevine. Of course we don't have Jace, which could also spawn Vengevine recursion, but we have better filtering than they had then (Preordain is sick). Birthing Pod sorta does our Elspeth for us giving our weak bodies value.
I think Black is better than white as the 3rd color now since it has the best spot removal in the format, it can fight the combo decks like Twin and Valakut head on (fast proactive strategies were always a weakness). The key thing Blumanji did was play the RUG/BUG game and I think that is a smart move for us anyway since the ramp and big creatures all are sinergistic anyway.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks: GWUKnightfall Modern UWTempo Legacy UGRBurning Wish Cobra Vintage
Hey guys, I don't play this deck but I have some opinions I'd like to share.
DOLZero: Have you had problems with Aether Adept being your only 3-drop? Consider adding a Sea Gate Oracle. Exarch is alright, but only for moving from 2 to 4. Drawing him's kinda lame.
You also might consider 1 Metamorph. You can copy a big opposing creature, then Pod into a 6 or 7-drop.
The list you are referring to is my rough draft of a control pod. I only put Aether Adept in so I could bounce any pesky blockers when I wanted to swing for the win. I have since changed it to Exarch due to the fact that Deceiver Exarch is easier on the mana base and has flash. Only having one 3 drop as a creature has been a bit of a drag when I have wanted to pod out a 2 drop, and I am likely to fit in either more exarch or some Sea Gate Oracles in my next list.
I was running Metamorph as a 1 of in my pre-control pod list, and it was alright. Right now there are only 2 or 3 creatures I would actually want to copy in my control build, so it seemed less useful.
@Frufru: I am only running 3 Pods right now, and sometimes I feel like that is too many. I even may drop it down to 2, since it is more of a utility card than anything for me.
@DOL - I agree, Birthing Pod deck's rely on being able to win WITHOUT having the Pod.
I would use Trinket Mage and a Voltaic Key in my list, it's my favorite 3-drop in the deck tbh.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I like Pandas. They're so chill.
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
I am working on tweaking my build to turn it into as much of an anti Valakut deck as possible, and I am having some thoughts on what to put into the 4cc slot. The main thing is that I want to be able to reliably cast the creature on turn 4, which means the 2GG of Obstinate Baloth is sort of a problem. Wing Splicer, Vital Splicer, Skinrender and Entomber Exarch seem like the best choices, but none are particularly useful against Valakut.
Baloth: I do like the Baloth more, due to the life gain and the fact that he cant simply be bolted away with a single valakut trigger.
Skinrender: Unless the Valakut player is running oracle of mul daya, this guy is a complete waste of deck space. The only other thing he would be good for is killing off a 3/3 beast after you blow up a Valakut with Beast Within.
Entomber Exarch: The exarch is somewhat useful, as you can use it to take a Summoning Trap from their hand. I also like being able to bring back a creature late game, but the 2/2 body is not much of a threat to the Valakut player.
Wing/Vital Splicer: These guys dont really do much either. A 3/3 flyer can usually get past most Valakut blockers, but that is about it.
I have thought about Thought Gorger as well, possibly as a 1 of. Being able to dump a hand full of crap to put a beefy threat is not a bad thing. Especially if you can refill your hand with stuff worth while when you pitch him for a 5 drop. Has anyone tried him out?
Ob Nixilis, the Fallen might also be really good with all of my fetch lands. I might give him a slot in my 5cc just to test him out.
So after a fair amount of thought on my previous build, this is what I am gonna be testing for the next couple of days:
The main thing I am thinking at this point (other than the 2GG of Baloth) is that I only have 8 lands to hit a turn 1 IoK. Terramorphic and Evolving Wilds are both useful in giving me an additional move on turn 1, as well as beefing up my mana base with Cobra (or just beefing up Ob Nix if I go that route). They might be better off as Darkslick Shores to help improve my mana base and give me another 2 shots at hitting that turn 1 IoK.
Entomber Exarch can also take out lands, ramp, GSZ and removal. I'd say he's definitely the best option.
If you're concerned about slow discard you may try despise; it's good vs Valakut and stays valuable for longer.
I know you want to blow up lands against Valakut, but Beast Within tokens are bigger than all of your little guys. Maybe you should just run a ton of hate for games 2 and 3.
I know you want to blow up lands against Valakut, but Beast Within tokens are bigger than all of your little guys. Maybe you should just run a ton of hate for games 2 and 3.
Sure, Beast Within gives them a 3/3 token, but that is generally a lot less of a threat than taking damage from Valakut. I can always block the tokens with Deceiver Exarch, Baloth, etc... Beast Within is almost always worth it when I play it.
Beast Within should ALWAYS be worth it against 'Kut. Each Valakut is responsible for three PLUS damage a turn. A beast can only do 3 if it's unblocked/still alive.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I like Pandas. They're so chill.
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
What I'm saying is that the Beast Token stops most of your guys from getting through. So even though you set their land back a turn, you set your kill back by at least a turn as well.
did you mean to post a 65 card deck? are you looking for advice on what to cut? I'd say cut all 4 Beast Within. thats not a card that works well for this deck. the only good way to use Beast Within is to play a strategy that can effectively ignore the 3/3 on your opponents side. Its good in combo or ramp decks for this reason, because you'll just be winning by the time that 3/3 becomes relevant. For this deck the 3/3 is always relevant. This deck is very much concerned with incremental card advantage and it will win a little at a time while pushing through every piece of the opponent's board position. Beast Within is just making that much harder. It has no place in this deck in my opinion.
Beast Within could be potentially amazing in here though, I mean against White Weenie/Suture Sisters you also have to watch out for Leonin Relic-Warder, and Glissa stops the Token cold.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I like Pandas. They're so chill.
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
I dunno if its the lack of sleep right now, but something made me think that a super ramp version of this deck might be worth checking out. Who knows, maybe it can even out race Valakut. Pod is more of a tool mostly to help me find my win conditions in the event that I dont draw one. Extra utility in all other situations.
Basic idea is to draw through and ramp up as quickly as possible. Overgrown in the board for aggro decks. Flashfreeze for you know who and the rest of the board is for control. This is really just an off the top of my head list.
EDIT: was just thinking Augury Owl might be a better choice than Sylvan Ranger. Seems like it would help make Oracle of Mul Daya nuts with preordain.
I'm probably bringing this to FNM tonight. I am happy with the card choices, but I need to play some more consistent numbers of everything. I tested it online, but not very much. I'm going to test it a bit after work today, and make some final changes.
4-Lotus Cobra
3-Viridian Emissary
3-Birthing Pod
3-Sword of Feast and Famine
4-Preordain
3-Frost Titan
1-Grave Titan
4-Sea gate Oracle
2-Entomber Exarch
2-Acidic slime
3-Go for the Throat
4-Inquisition of Kozilek
24-Lands
I'm going to try the swords out, and I think they will be amazing. I have yet to test them, but they seem to play right along with every one of our goals. I should be able to find one with the preordains, and sea gates relativley easily. Turning all of our free creatures, in terms of card advantage, into MORE card advantage seems like a great idea. I like the racing power of the deck with equipment. It makes their removal spells even more neccasary to use, and they will still be on the losing end of trading with our creatures. The swords may give us a good plan against valakut, but this is all theory at this point. Viridian emissary has been great for several reasons. He trades with early drops, and makes our large guys come down faster. He also provides a decent clock alongside cobra. I have always been impressed with how much damage a cobra can get through for, but with emissary, and the swords the deck seems much faster.
@Tom - I posted a list somewhere, I've been playing RUG Twin-Pod and I play 3 Sword of F&F in my list, not only does it make them discard & represent a faster clock, it also untaps all your lands, your MP2 shenanigans.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I like Pandas. They're so chill.
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
But other than that, he's just a hasty 4 drop, that has the potential for recursion.
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
DOLZero: Have you had problems with Aether Adept being your only 3-drop? Consider adding a Sea Gate Oracle. Exarch is alright, but only for moving from 2 to 4. Drawing him's kinda lame.
You also might consider 1 Metamorph. You can copy a big opposing creature, then Pod into a 6 or 7-drop.
ryansolid: I know you like Oracle of Mul Daya, but I don't think it works all that great with your plan. You don't have all that much to ramp into, and you're only running 24 lands (8 fetches). She's also a poor threat. Maybe swap her for a 4th Pod?
I'd put 1 wurmcoil back in for frost titan. Sometimes its the only thing that can save you, and it's definitely the best thing to search for if you're on the attack.
Evilpandy: I think you might be hurting yourself with the CIPT lands; it kinda works against your ramp. Halimar Depths are alright I guess, but I'd replace the Terramorphics with basic land.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
There's really no reason not to run 4 Pods. If they remove one, it's always good to have a second one in hand.
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
Yeah mainly the black is to up combo post board and for Creeping Tarpit. It helps to have removal to which these colors usually lack. Dismember existing changes that but the life can be harder.
The biggest thing for me is I tried to make UG manabases and realised even running Tectonic Edge was not feasible. Maybe as a 2 of. 24 Lands in UG means 14 Blue sources and 14 Green sources. Adding 2 Tectonic Edges makes it 13 a piece basically. You can hedge up green obviously in a list like this but you end up with like 16 Green and 12 Blue. In the end the difference between 2 and 3 colors for fixing is very small.. I run 13, 13, 13 at 24 lands but it could easily be 14 13 12 or 15 12 12 without even getting into Evolving Wilds. At 24 I admit it's a bit tough.. once you go to 25 or 26 though there is almost no reason to run straight UG. Like at 26 you get maybe 16 and 14 but in UGB you get 15 14 14 or 16 14 13. The more even the UG color split is the more it makes sense to go for the 3rd color. If the deck is predominantly green would probably be the only argument for sticking UG. The small splash is almost painless given we'd be running the 8 fetches anyway.
I love Entomber Exarch. I could work him in again but it's always matter of consistency versus utility. I decided I needed to make the list a bit more aggressive. So instead of running as 1 of I was thinking of going another direction. He may have enough Utility to justify it. I realised that without running enough other discard effects he was narrow. I could always board heavily into him but I have better black answers to combo postboard. Having him as a 1 of might be critical or it might be completely dead against Valakut or Exarch. Where I wanted to Duress against Control Vengevine pretty much took the place, as it both nulls permission (nets you CA in the long run if they counter it) and it nulls DoJ, and it pressures Planeswalkers. I'm still playing around with the 4 slot. It is the area I consider the most fluid. I really like my top end and the core lower CMC stuff has been coming together.
I wasn't keen either. Notice no Fauna Shaman etc. I have played those decks to death the last year. I went as far as saying that without Jace Squadron Hawks provides the only reasonable CA for those type of decks. I have probably drove this topic into the ground in the Shaman thread, but I will iterate a few points here.
Vengevine has been used successfully in really 3 Types of deck in Standard although people typically only focus on the ones since the printing of Fauna Shaman:
The first one that comes to mind is the old Bloodbraid Elf Naya where he just was added aggressiveness on everything. He was almost like a pump spell or more suitably I heard him dubbed the "Green Lightning Bolt". That deck would only chain a Vengevine or 2 and basically used Shaman to fetch out Bloodbraid Elfs the most powerful card in the deck. Decks like GW Jumanji(fueled off Lead the Stampede) are like this too where you just flood the board with creatures so Vengevine just becomes value into the midgame since you are trying to just beat down. Blumanji(and the UGx decks in the fall) were similar to this too except instead of blazing out the gates with creatures they used Tempo 2 for 1's to make time for Vengevine.
The second was alongside Fauna Shaman in creature based combo deck (Fauna Bant Conscription, Exarch Twin, Ezuri Elves, GW Quest), or toolbox deck (GW Stoneforge Shaman) since it was easy value to a deck to give a deck that wanted the Shaman for redundancy and consistency. Being able to alternatively win by beatdown was good for these decks. Again these decks chaining Vengevines wasn't always plan A.
The third is Next Level Bant a deck with Vengevine pre-Fauna Shaman. In fact Fauna Shaman sort of goes against the theory of the deck. It's a deck that plays all cantrip creatures like Sea Gate Oracle and Wall of Omens and Vengevines. Every card is an ETB 2 for 1 and in so no individual creature is worth removal(unlike Shaman who is). It used to eek out incremental advantage until Elspeth starts throwing flying 7/6 Vengevines at the opponent or 4/3 Flying Sea Gate Oracles or 7/7 Celestial Colonnades or maybe it throws all the Vengevines up for one alpha strike recurred by a Ranger of Eos.
All these ideas are related and decks use elements of all but I'm looking more at Next Level Bant than the others in the list (and to some degree Blumanji). There is no Fauna Shaman for a reason. Vengevine I don't run just for instant gratification (other that to get removal or permission used on it or some quick haste damage.. don't underestimate quick haste damage) but because the ability to gain value over the longer game. Pod is interesting because it makes every creature worth removal even the worthless ones so you are playing a similar game plan where it's relevant. You're asking them to kill your Sea Gate Oracles and Vengevines and Acidic Slimes. Even if you don't necessarily recur them they've probably done their job (Vengevine as a haster is like an ETB).
As for the recursion itself Kor Skyfisher was in Next Level Bant and was cut as not that good.. I think Aether Adept and Entomber Exarch used in the same sort of fashion are doable but probably not as good anyway. And Consecrated Sphinx seems like a perfect Successor to Sphinx of Lost Truth. If it lives it is all you need to recurr Vengevine. Of course we don't have Jace, which could also spawn Vengevine recursion, but we have better filtering than they had then (Preordain is sick). Birthing Pod sorta does our Elspeth for us giving our weak bodies value.
I think Black is better than white as the 3rd color now since it has the best spot removal in the format, it can fight the combo decks like Twin and Valakut head on (fast proactive strategies were always a weakness). The key thing Blumanji did was play the RUG/BUG game and I think that is a smart move for us anyway since the ramp and big creatures all are sinergistic anyway.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
The list you are referring to is my rough draft of a control pod. I only put Aether Adept in so I could bounce any pesky blockers when I wanted to swing for the win. I have since changed it to Exarch due to the fact that Deceiver Exarch is easier on the mana base and has flash. Only having one 3 drop as a creature has been a bit of a drag when I have wanted to pod out a 2 drop, and I am likely to fit in either more exarch or some Sea Gate Oracles in my next list.
I was running Metamorph as a 1 of in my pre-control pod list, and it was alright. Right now there are only 2 or 3 creatures I would actually want to copy in my control build, so it seemed less useful.
@Frufru: I am only running 3 Pods right now, and sometimes I feel like that is too many. I even may drop it down to 2, since it is more of a utility card than anything for me.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
I would use Trinket Mage and a Voltaic Key in my list, it's my favorite 3-drop in the deck tbh.
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
Baloth: I do like the Baloth more, due to the life gain and the fact that he cant simply be bolted away with a single valakut trigger.
Skinrender: Unless the Valakut player is running oracle of mul daya, this guy is a complete waste of deck space. The only other thing he would be good for is killing off a 3/3 beast after you blow up a Valakut with Beast Within.
Entomber Exarch: The exarch is somewhat useful, as you can use it to take a Summoning Trap from their hand. I also like being able to bring back a creature late game, but the 2/2 body is not much of a threat to the Valakut player.
Wing/Vital Splicer: These guys dont really do much either. A 3/3 flyer can usually get past most Valakut blockers, but that is about it.
I have thought about Thought Gorger as well, possibly as a 1 of. Being able to dump a hand full of crap to put a beefy threat is not a bad thing. Especially if you can refill your hand with stuff worth while when you pitch him for a 5 drop. Has anyone tried him out?
Ob Nixilis, the Fallen might also be really good with all of my fetch lands. I might give him a slot in my 5cc just to test him out.
So after a fair amount of thought on my previous build, this is what I am gonna be testing for the next couple of days:
3x Sylvan Ranger
3x Lotus Cobra
2x Deceiver Exarch
2x Sea Gate Oracle
3x Obstinate Baloth
1x Entomber Exarch
3x Acidic Slime
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Massacre Wurm
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
Other Permanents: 2
2x Birthing Pod
Other Spells: 18
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Mana Leak
4x Beast Within
3x Doom Blade
3x Go for the Throat
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Tectonic Edge
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Terramorphic Expanse
4x Forest
4x Swamp
2x Island
4x Duress
1x Trinket Mage
1x Elixir of Immortality
The main thing I am thinking at this point (other than the 2GG of Baloth) is that I only have 8 lands to hit a turn 1 IoK. Terramorphic and Evolving Wilds are both useful in giving me an additional move on turn 1, as well as beefing up my mana base with Cobra (or just beefing up Ob Nix if I go that route). They might be better off as Darkslick Shores to help improve my mana base and give me another 2 shots at hitting that turn 1 IoK.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
If you're concerned about slow discard you may try despise; it's good vs Valakut and stays valuable for longer.
I know you want to blow up lands against Valakut, but Beast Within tokens are bigger than all of your little guys. Maybe you should just run a ton of hate for games 2 and 3.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
Sure, Beast Within gives them a 3/3 token, but that is generally a lot less of a threat than taking damage from Valakut. I can always block the tokens with Deceiver Exarch, Baloth, etc... Beast Within is almost always worth it when I play it.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
did you mean to post a 65 card deck? are you looking for advice on what to cut? I'd say cut all 4 Beast Within. thats not a card that works well for this deck. the only good way to use Beast Within is to play a strategy that can effectively ignore the 3/3 on your opponents side. Its good in combo or ramp decks for this reason, because you'll just be winning by the time that 3/3 becomes relevant. For this deck the 3/3 is always relevant. This deck is very much concerned with incremental card advantage and it will win a little at a time while pushing through every piece of the opponent's board position. Beast Within is just making that much harder. It has no place in this deck in my opinion.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
Magma Phoenix.... I remember trying to break that card. It never really worked out.....
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
4x Bird of Paradise
4x Lotus Cobra
2x Sylvan Ranger
4x Sea Gate Oracle
2x Obstinate Baloth
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
3x Acidic Slime
2x Frost Titan
1x Wurmcoil Engine
Spells: 12
4x Preordain
2x Birthing Pod
3x Go for the Throat
3x Doom Blade
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Tectonic Edge
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Darkslick Shores
4x Forest
4x Island
2x Swamp
1x Terramorphic Expanse
4x Flashfreeze
4x Beast Within
4x Overgrown Battlement
1x Trinket Mage
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Entomber Exarch
Basic idea is to draw through and ramp up as quickly as possible. Overgrown in the board for aggro decks. Flashfreeze for you know who and the rest of the board is for control. This is really just an off the top of my head list.
EDIT: was just thinking Augury Owl might be a better choice than Sylvan Ranger. Seems like it would help make Oracle of Mul Daya nuts with preordain.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R
4-Lotus Cobra
3-Viridian Emissary
3-Birthing Pod
3-Sword of Feast and Famine
4-Preordain
3-Frost Titan
1-Grave Titan
4-Sea gate Oracle
2-Entomber Exarch
2-Acidic slime
3-Go for the Throat
4-Inquisition of Kozilek
24-Lands
I'm going to try the swords out, and I think they will be amazing. I have yet to test them, but they seem to play right along with every one of our goals. I should be able to find one with the preordains, and sea gates relativley easily. Turning all of our free creatures, in terms of card advantage, into MORE card advantage seems like a great idea. I like the racing power of the deck with equipment. It makes their removal spells even more neccasary to use, and they will still be on the losing end of trading with our creatures. The swords may give us a good plan against valakut, but this is all theory at this point. Viridian emissary has been great for several reasons. He trades with early drops, and makes our large guys come down faster. He also provides a decent clock alongside cobra. I have always been impressed with how much damage a cobra can get through for, but with emissary, and the swords the deck seems much faster.
They're like, "Hey, I'm a panda. I chew on bamboo. I'm so chill."
I wish I was a panda.
Standard: UBW Solar Flare. UBW
Modern: UUR Storm R