I dno if this is relevant anymore - because I haven't had time yet to read through these 16 pages, but I like the idea alot!
Imo, I think this deck has the most chances to win in the same was as BR Vamps have a huge chance, keep the mana cost low.
Therefor I would like you all to think about Shriekhorn ... I believe this card is one of the (or should be an important one at least) to pull of the Ascension combo ...
Tell me what you guys think?
In my opinion....
Shriekhorn is probably one of the weakest cards ever made and it will probably continue to be forever......
No, it doesn't seem so. Because the Ascension triggers ONLY off of loss of life. Infect won't trigger the ascension, nor Mindcrank. Two essential parts.
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Modern Decks: GGGMGAGGG RRRRed AffinityRRR RGShamansGR BWB/W ControlWB
Well, the sideboard is still a work in progress...
The following changes give the deck a more well rounded mana curve.
Vampire Nighthawk > Vampire Lacerator A 2/3 evasive flier for 3 mana vs a 2/2 for 1 that sucks a life out of you during your upkeep. I hate to admit it, but there are too many creature stalls in standard for VL to work in this deck. If it had a form of evasion I'd keep it in, but it doesn't. Lifelink and deathtouch are nothing but gravy.
Sorin Markov I'm convinced this is the kind of deck Sorin has been looking for since the card was released. The + ability gives the deck even more cheap 2-damage effects.
Crypt Ripper is in this list for one main reason; HASTE. Think of it as a pseudo Lavaclaw Reaches. Many times when it hits the board, it'll grow to 5/5 or more as well. And really, what is this deck doing on turn 4?
Thing is, any creature can be run in Crypt Ripper's slot and this deck will remain a force to be reckoned with.
Other (Black) options I've considered:
Bloodhusk Ritualist I've always considered this little guy underrated. By turn 5, the other player's hand is going to be mostly empty anyway. Plus, he's got synergy with Suffer the Past. Unfortunately, it tends to be nothing but a chump blocker after it hits the board.
Gatekeeper of Malakir 2/2 + removal. Could be useful. However the beatstick itself is just a vanilla 2/2. The same problem I was having with Vampire Lacerator. This deck needs its attackers to connect, if only once.
Blind Zealot 'Shortform' Gatekeeper. Has Intimidate.
Howling Banshee Don't laugh. Think of it as a 3/3 flier for 3 + a bolt to the other player's face. This deck loves that sort of play. I'm tempted to permanently swap it for Crypt Ripper.
Grave Titan Okay, now you can laugh. If your deck hasn't won by turn 6, you're doing it wrong. Sorin is a much better back-up plan, but the two are interchangeable.
Ehhhh I really liked the first list you put out Happy Shaman but that new one is.. well.. worse on every level if you ask me.
I don't think playing any creature over 3 CMC is a good idea unless it's a house like Abyssal Persecuter (not that he would work in this deck but you get the drift) since this needs to be a fast deck. Banshee could just as easily be another burn spell if you ask me it's not like you need a body for this deck to work out.
Volt Charge is worth considering using over Galvanic Blast mainly for the chance to put 2 counter on an ascension for one spell. The drawback is of course 3 mana over 1.
If it was me I would consider using your first list but swapping Galvanic for Volt Charge and maybe trying Immolating Souleater over the Lacerator.
Ehhhh I really liked the first list you put out Happy Shaman but that new one is.. well.. worse on every level if you ask me.
I don't think playing any creature over 3 CMC is a good idea unless it's a house like Abyssal Persecuter (not that he would work in this deck but you get the drift) since this needs to be a fast deck. Banshee could just as easily be another burn spell if you ask me it's not like you need a body for this deck to work out.
Volt Charge is worth considering using over Galvanic Blast mainly for the chance to put 2 counter on an ascension for one spell. The drawback is of course 3 mana over 1.
If it was me I would consider using your first list but swapping Galvanic for Volt Charge and maybe trying Immolating Souleater over the Lacerator.
The rare times Volt Charge puts the extra counter on BA just isn't worth it.
I swapped Crypt Ripper for Howling Banshee. Trust me, its a good choice. This deck is an aggro-burn deck, nothing more, nothing less. It just has couple of good Mindcrank combos (Suffer the Past and Bloodchief Ascension) for back-up.
No, it doesn't seem so. Because the Ascension triggers ONLY off of loss of life. Infect won't trigger the ascension, nor Mindcrank. Two essential parts.
No, on the frame, using Tezzeret to make things 5/5's.
The rare times Volt Charge puts the extra counter on BA just isn't worth it.
I swapped Crypt Ripper for Howling Banshee. Trust me, its a good choice. This deck is an aggro-burn deck, nothing more, nothing less. It just has couple of good Mindcrank combos (Suffer the Past and Bloodchief Ascension) for back-up.
Im going to have to agree with Enma. I see what your trying to do, but your list is VERY subpar with a lot of dead draws. Your should be winning turn 4/5, not playing over costed creatures. I run a R/B list with 4 Goblin Guides, 4 Vampire Laceraters, and 4 Pulse Trackers with a burn package of 4 Lightning Bolt, 4 Burst Lightning and 3 Staggershock. Its pretty consistant other then making sure I have both combo pieces. Might switch the Staggershocks for Tezzerets Gambit. Ill post my list when Im off work.
The Tracker, Myr and Nighthawk all can push through 2 damage one way or another. (Tracker by multiple copies, Myr by hitting the GY, Nighthawk flies)
Throne of Geth can finish up the Quest counter on the Ascension. (sac the Myr for the Throne can give 2 Quest counter at your opponent's end step given that the ascension already has one)
The Piranha Marsh leads for some funny interactions with this deck and to your opponent Fetchlands. It also gives that 1 damage reach that this none B/R built needs.
Ex. On your turn cast a pulse Tracker
Your opp. then puts down a Wall or Blocker.
On your turn you attack into the blocker making them loose 1 life then drop the Piranha Marsh for another 1 life lose, cast the Ascension for an auto 1 quest counter at the end of the turn.
And Finally, an active ascension+mindcrank on the Battlefield with a counterspell in hand can make for funny lock game for your opponent
P.S.: If people goes trigger happy for all does Phyrexian mana then it will be better for this deck.
Im going to have to agree with Enma. I see what your trying to do, but your list is VERY subpar with a lot of dead draws. Your should be winning turn 4/5, not playing over costed creatures. I run a R/B list with 4 Goblin Guides, 4 Vampire Laceraters, and 4 Pulse Trackers with a burn package of 4 Lightning Bolt, 4 Burst Lightning and 3 Staggershock. Its pretty consistant other then making sure I have both combo pieces. Might switch the Staggershocks for Tezzerets Gambit. Ill post my list when Im off work.
I began with something similar, with Goblin Bushwhacker as well. The problem was not having any evasion to push damage through. In today's T2, those creatures become outclassed very quickly. Caw-Blade decks for example. I added Ember Hauler and liked it for the reasons I've already stated in this thread.
Adding Vampire Nighthawk became kind of a no-brainer. And I'm VERY impressed with how well Howling Banshee is working out. If you're playing a creature-using B/R version of this deck, give it a try with 2-3 copies.
I removed Sorin from the deck. Its just not worth it. Most often its a dead card or discard fodder. I'm running 2 Bloodhusk Ritualists instead.
Grixis colors looks like the way to me.
Red for burn
Black for Ascension, maybe Dark Tutelage, Sign in Blood
Blue for Diggin' cards.
I've been playing Grixis for awhile now ands its just not dependable enough. Really what the deck needs is a more reliable way of dealing damage than burn spells. In addition you MUST get Bloodchief at some time in order to win. unless you put in a huge shroud swinger in like Jwar Jwar, and often the deck won't even reach that kinda mana.
I've been playing Grixis for awhile now ands its just not dependable enough. Really what the deck needs is a more reliable way of dealing damage than burn spells. In addition you MUST get Bloodchief at some time in order to win. unless you put in a huge shroud swinger in like Jwar Jwar, and often the deck won't even reach that kinda mana.
That's another point to run the double combo. But we could run some 2/2 unblockables in it's place. . .
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Modern Decks: GGGMGAGGG RRRRed AffinityRRR RGShamansGR BWB/W ControlWB
I'm currently trying to put together a B/U variant, and i have to say during my testing Spellskite is truly amazing. It protect not only your combo, but your creeping tar pit from spot removal. I currently have 3 in my list, might go to four. The four toughness doesn't hurt either.
I like the looks of that, I'd add in some inkmoths as an alternate win with tezzeret. Normally your opponent doesn't see the first 5/5 inkmoth coming, and then your inkmoth is still 5/5 until you activate him again if you want the flying and infect. plus having that one source of infect can start to make your opponent worry with all your proliferate cards.
Just play as Black/White control... Wall of Omens and Due Respect, give us protection and some card draw until Gideon comes. Diabolic Tutor and Liliana Vess to search the pieces and some removal/disruption. Geth, Lord of the Vault is just great! He can wins games by himself and gives us a second win condition.
I've tried Norn's Annex, but is only great against deck's that dont use white... Great for SB i think, stop Splinter Twin combo!
so heres the list ive been trying. so far my only problem has been builds with a large creature count (thinking of using slagstorm as a solution to that problem)
still working on a SB, thinking mental misstep and either memoricide or extraction and other problem solvers.
Some explanations:
-Inferno Titan:its there as both a win-con and as an ascension trigger, so if your combo gets ruined you can still pull through
-Into the roil: good for messing up other combos (both mirror and exarch/twin) also for stalling walkers and threats like Pgolem.
Staggershock: i chose it over things like volt charge for both its flexibility (can hit a creature and them for a counter) and it can start off the counters.
Again the SB as well as main deck are works in progress, i feel like this build will require a lot of good piloting and decision making with opening hands. So far ive had little to no problems with the mana base, even with the tri-colors.
In my opinion....
Shriekhorn is probably one of the weakest cards ever made and it will probably continue to be forever......
Pretty much sums up why I like green so much
On the internet, everywhere is Soviet Russia[/QUOTE]
GGGMGAGGG
RRRRed AffinityRRR
RGShamansGR
BWB/W ControlWB
EDH:
Maelstrom Wanderer
Heartless Hidetsugu
Cromat
Nicol Bolas
Sapling of Colfenor
Mayael the Anima
Building a B/R list, ill post later once I have a solid list.
Pretty much sums up why I like green so much
On the internet, everywhere is Soviet Russia[/QUOTE]
GGGMGAGGG
RRRRed AffinityRRR
RGShamansGR
BWB/W ControlWB
EDH:
Maelstrom Wanderer
Heartless Hidetsugu
Cromat
Nicol Bolas
Sapling of Colfenor
Mayael the Anima
I was running something like this before I went creature based:
7 Swamp
7 Mountain
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
Spells
3 Staggershock
3 Duress
3 Galvanic Blast
3 Blood Tithe
4 Sign In Blood
3 Volt Charge
3 Despise
4 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mindcrank
4 Bloodchief Ascension
Its fun... but not as consistent.
Which is why we started running both Tezzeret's Gambit and Gitaxian Probe. With some builds running Splinter Twin/Deceiver Exarch combo as well.
GGGMGAGGG
RRRRed AffinityRRR
RGShamansGR
BWB/W ControlWB
EDH:
Maelstrom Wanderer
Heartless Hidetsugu
Cromat
Nicol Bolas
Sapling of Colfenor
Mayael the Anima
GGGMGAGGG
RRRRed AffinityRRR
RGShamansGR
BWB/W ControlWB
EDH:
Maelstrom Wanderer
Heartless Hidetsugu
Cromat
Nicol Bolas
Sapling of Colfenor
Mayael the Anima
Way too much lifeloss for my tastes. Especially when one of the worst matchups is Caw-Blade.
I would confidently play this list in a tournament level event.
7 Swamp
7 Mountain
3 Dragonskull Summit
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
Creatures
3 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Goblin Guide
4 Ember Hauler
3 Crypt Ripper
4 Bloodchief Ascension
4 Mindcrank
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
3 Galvanic Blast
3 Suffer the Past
Mascot
2 Sorin Markov
3 Arc Trail
3 Despise
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Slagstorm
3 Vampire Hexmage
Well, the sideboard is still a work in progress...
The following changes give the deck a more well rounded mana curve.
Vampire Nighthawk > Vampire Lacerator A 2/3 evasive flier for 3 mana vs a 2/2 for 1 that sucks a life out of you during your upkeep. I hate to admit it, but there are too many creature stalls in standard for VL to work in this deck. If it had a form of evasion I'd keep it in, but it doesn't. Lifelink and deathtouch are nothing but gravy.
Sorin Markov I'm convinced this is the kind of deck Sorin has been looking for since the card was released. The + ability gives the deck even more cheap 2-damage effects.
Crypt Ripper is in this list for one main reason; HASTE. Think of it as a pseudo Lavaclaw Reaches. Many times when it hits the board, it'll grow to 5/5 or more as well. And really, what is this deck doing on turn 4?
Thing is, any creature can be run in Crypt Ripper's slot and this deck will remain a force to be reckoned with.
Other (Black) options I've considered:
Bloodhusk Ritualist I've always considered this little guy underrated. By turn 5, the other player's hand is going to be mostly empty anyway. Plus, he's got synergy with Suffer the Past. Unfortunately, it tends to be nothing but a chump blocker after it hits the board.
Liliana's Specter 'Shortform' Ritualist. But has flying.
Gatekeeper of Malakir 2/2 + removal. Could be useful. However the beatstick itself is just a vanilla 2/2. The same problem I was having with Vampire Lacerator. This deck needs its attackers to connect, if only once.
Blind Zealot 'Shortform' Gatekeeper. Has Intimidate.
Howling Banshee Don't laugh. Think of it as a 3/3 flier for 3 + a bolt to the other player's face. This deck loves that sort of play. I'm tempted to permanently swap it for Crypt Ripper.
Grave Titan Okay, now you can laugh. If your deck hasn't won by turn 6, you're doing it wrong. Sorin is a much better back-up plan, but the two are interchangeable.
I don't think playing any creature over 3 CMC is a good idea unless it's a house like Abyssal Persecuter (not that he would work in this deck but you get the drift) since this needs to be a fast deck. Banshee could just as easily be another burn spell if you ask me it's not like you need a body for this deck to work out.
Volt Charge is worth considering using over Galvanic Blast mainly for the chance to put 2 counter on an ascension for one spell. The drawback is of course 3 mana over 1.
If it was me I would consider using your first list but swapping Galvanic for Volt Charge and maybe trying Immolating Souleater over the Lacerator.
The rare times Volt Charge puts the extra counter on BA just isn't worth it.
I swapped Crypt Ripper for Howling Banshee. Trust me, its a good choice. This deck is an aggro-burn deck, nothing more, nothing less. It just has couple of good Mindcrank combos (Suffer the Past and Bloodchief Ascension) for back-up.
No, on the frame, using Tezzeret to make things 5/5's.
This is the list I've been working on.
4 Creeping Tar Pit
5 Island
3 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Bloodchief Ascension
4 Mindcrank
3 Contagion Clasp
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
4 Grim Affliction
3 Everflowing Chalice
3 Tumble Magnet
1 Contagion Engine
4 Preordain
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana Vess
4 Doom Blade
4 Go for the Throat
3 Into the Roil
4 Mana Leak
Im going to have to agree with Enma. I see what your trying to do, but your list is VERY subpar with a lot of dead draws. Your should be winning turn 4/5, not playing over costed creatures. I run a R/B list with 4 Goblin Guides, 4 Vampire Laceraters, and 4 Pulse Trackers with a burn package of 4 Lightning Bolt, 4 Burst Lightning and 3 Staggershock. Its pretty consistant other then making sure I have both combo pieces. Might switch the Staggershocks for Tezzerets Gambit. Ill post my list when Im off work.
4 piranha marsh
3 halimar depths
4 tectonic edge
4 island
8 swamp
Creatures 15
4 Pulse Tracker
4 Perilous Myr
3 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Liliana's Specter
2 Phyrexian Rager
2 Throne of Geth
4 Mindcrank
4 Bloodchief Ascension
3 Suffer the Past
4 Mana Leak
2 Mire's Toll
3 Duress
4 Turn Aside
1 Duress
4 Memoricide
4 Into the roil
2 Hideous End
The Tracker, Myr and Nighthawk all can push through 2 damage one way or another. (Tracker by multiple copies, Myr by hitting the GY, Nighthawk flies)
Throne of Geth can finish up the Quest counter on the Ascension. (sac the Myr for the Throne can give 2 Quest counter at your opponent's end step given that the ascension already has one)
The Piranha Marsh leads for some funny interactions with this deck and to your opponent Fetchlands. It also gives that 1 damage reach that this none B/R built needs.
Ex. On your turn cast a pulse Tracker
Your opp. then puts down a Wall or Blocker.
On your turn you attack into the blocker making them loose 1 life then drop the Piranha Marsh for another 1 life lose, cast the Ascension for an auto 1 quest counter at the end of the turn.
And Finally, an active ascension+mindcrank on the Battlefield with a counterspell in hand can make for funny lock game for your opponent
P.S.: If people goes trigger happy for all does Phyrexian mana then it will be better for this deck.
I began with something similar, with Goblin Bushwhacker as well. The problem was not having any evasion to push damage through. In today's T2, those creatures become outclassed very quickly. Caw-Blade decks for example. I added Ember Hauler and liked it for the reasons I've already stated in this thread.
Adding Vampire Nighthawk became kind of a no-brainer. And I'm VERY impressed with how well Howling Banshee is working out. If you're playing a creature-using B/R version of this deck, give it a try with 2-3 copies.
I removed Sorin from the deck. Its just not worth it. Most often its a dead card or discard fodder. I'm running 2 Bloodhusk Ritualists instead.
Red for burn
Black for Ascension, maybe Dark Tutelage, Sign in Blood
Blue for Diggin' cards.
:symw::symb:Steel Wb Weenie
I've been playing Grixis for awhile now ands its just not dependable enough. Really what the deck needs is a more reliable way of dealing damage than burn spells. In addition you MUST get Bloodchief at some time in order to win. unless you put in a huge shroud swinger in like Jwar Jwar, and often the deck won't even reach that kinda mana.
Pretty much sums up why I like green so much
On the internet, everywhere is Soviet Russia[/QUOTE]
That's another point to run the double combo. But we could run some 2/2 unblockables in it's place. . .
GGGMGAGGG
RRRRed AffinityRRR
RGShamansGR
BWB/W ControlWB
EDH:
Maelstrom Wanderer
Heartless Hidetsugu
Cromat
Nicol Bolas
Sapling of Colfenor
Mayael the Anima
4 piranha marsh
3 halimar depths
4 tectonic edge
4 island
8 swamp
Creatures 15
4 Pulse Tracker
4 Perilous Myr
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Liliana's Specter
2 Throne of Geth
4 Mindcrank
4 Bloodchief Ascension
2 Suffer the Past
4 Mana Leak
2 Dismember
4 Duress
4 Turn Aside
1 Duress
4 Memoricide
4 Into the roil
2 Dismember
I like the looks of that, I'd add in some inkmoths as an alternate win with tezzeret. Normally your opponent doesn't see the first 5/5 inkmoth coming, and then your inkmoth is still 5/5 until you activate him again if you want the flying and infect. plus having that one source of infect can start to make your opponent worry with all your proliferate cards.
My goodness that's a fun looking list tho.
This is what i'm testing right now...
6 Plains
6 Swamps
4 Marsh Flats
4 Tectonic Edge
2 Evolving Wilds
Creatures 12
4 Inquisitor Exarch
4 Wall of Omens
3 Perilous Myr
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
4 Bloodchief Ascension
4 Go for the Throat
4 Due Respect
4 Duress
3 Mindcrank
2 Diabolic Tutor
2 Grindclock
2 Gideon Jura
1 Liliana Vess
Just play as Black/White control...
Wall of Omens and Due Respect, give us protection and some card draw until Gideon comes. Diabolic Tutor and Liliana Vess to search the pieces and some removal/disruption. Geth, Lord of the Vault is just great! He can wins games by himself and gives us a second win condition.
I've tried Norn's Annex, but is only great against deck's that dont use white... Great for SB i think, stop Splinter Twin combo!
2x Inferno Titan
Instants
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Staggershock
3x Into the Roil
3x Mana Leak
Sorceries
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Tezzeret's Gambit
4x Preordain
4x Mindcrank
Enchantments
4x Bloodchief Ascension
Lands
1x Halimar Depths
3x Creeping Tarpit
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Scalding Tarn
4x Darkslick Shores
3x Island
3x Swamp
3x Mountain
still working on a SB, thinking mental misstep and either memoricide or extraction and other problem solvers.
Some explanations:
-Inferno Titan:its there as both a win-con and as an ascension trigger, so if your combo gets ruined you can still pull through
-Into the roil: good for messing up other combos (both mirror and exarch/twin) also for stalling walkers and threats like Pgolem.
Staggershock: i chose it over things like volt charge for both its flexibility (can hit a creature and them for a counter) and it can start off the counters.
Again the SB as well as main deck are works in progress, i feel like this build will require a lot of good piloting and decision making with opening hands. So far ive had little to no problems with the mana base, even with the tri-colors.