Matt Landstrom takes it to the house and wins the Standard Open this week as the major Caw-Blade players (Edgar Flores, Gerry Thompson) are in the invitational.
But what this says is that it's the player, not the deck. Probably the best player in the open takes it with "his" deck. Nice to see.
He's doing an interview now and it's interesting to list to just how much is set up purely to play Cawblade.
I would hope that the fine tunings of a deck in standard would be in order to help put it over the top of what is the best deck in the format. There is nothing wrong with that. 3 MB cards directly are for Caw-Blade, about 6 more in SB (if you count Arc Trail)...I don't think it's even that slanted. The rest of the list is just f'ing good/fast cards. It's super fast aggro, of course it's good against Caw-Blade.
Yea but all the big boy players are in the other event, so can you really use this SCG Open as a stepping stone to show what decks are dominating? I dunno. Grats to the Vamp guy though.
Yea but all the big boy players are in the other event, so can you really use this SCG Open as a stepping stone to show what decks are dominating? I dunno. Grats to the Vamp guy though.
My point was that Caw-Blade domination is more based on yes it being the best deck, but the better players not bothering to play with anything else. I think this standard has the potential to be/flat out is a lot better than what some people are saying. There's a lot of viable strategies/ways to make other decks very strong against the field of Stoneforges even.
I might try playing Vamps a little bit, but I think I like being the Vengevine guy too, lol. I am torn. So many decks I want to play!
While it's nice to hear something other than Caw Blade can win Standard tournaments I'm always baffled at how Vamps puts up any kind of results at all. It feels like such a low-power deck, throwing out a bunch of 1 & 2 power guys with a mini "combo" involving Highborn. I don't know guess I'm just not a fan of the weenie beatdown strategy, seems so weak on paper and isn't very fun to play.
People are just so quick to jump on the "I hate jace" bandwagon. With Valakut being non existent, Vengevine/Fauna Shaman and Vampire decks can do well.
Joey Mispagel also went 4-0 in the standard portion of the invitational yesterday with vamps. I think it's really well positioned right now. Idk how long that'll last, but don't throw this to the side....it's real.
The funny part is Landstrom dropped out of the invitational at 1-0 to play in the Standard Open because of his lack of familiarity with the Legacy format. Good choice obviously because he won the whole thing.
The funny part is Landstrom dropped out of the invitational at 1-0 to play in the Standard Open because of his lack of familiarity with the Legacy format. Good choice obviously because he won the whole thing.
dont know if that is true. the invitational started about 20min before the open, so unless he did a quick roll, dropped, somehow was able to sign up....i just heard he bypassed the whole inv because of the legacy thing.
**everyone look at that 9th place deck, i hear that player is awesome and very handsome....6-10 all had 22pts, damn tie breakers put me at 9th**
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dont know if that is true. the invitational started about 20min before the open, so unless he did a quick roll, dropped, somehow was able to sign up....i just heard he bypassed the whole inv because of the legacy thing.
**everyone look at that 9th place deck, i hear that player is awesome and very handsome....6-10 all had 22pts, damn tie breakers put me at 9th**
I am from the Chicago area where Landstrom is from and I got a text from a friend saying he 1-0 dropped the Invitational to play the Standard Open. Landstrom is level 5 so he had two byes for the Standard Open.
edit: the results from round 1 will also confirm my story.
I am from the Chicago area where Landstrom is from and I got a text from a friend saying he 1-0 dropped the Invitational to play the Standard Open. Landstrom is level 5 so he had two byes for the Standard Open.
edit: the results from round 1 will also confirm my story.
ah yes, that is true. on another note, im glad they are changing the bye-system.
what store u play at? cracker or past-times? i used to play at gamestorm in lemont but found peotone to be a better environment
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MTG is a hobby, cant afford it? GTFO! Don't complain about prices.
Vampires winning doesn't mean this is a healthy standard format at all. Vampires winning actually means quite the opposite. In a vaccuum, Vampires is a pretty bad deck. It has bad matchups against a lot of the field, but it is pretty good against Caw-Blade. Since Caw-Blade is so overwhelmingly good, a good player playing Vamps has a decent shot at doing well, because after the first few rounds, he will most likely just play Caw-Blade. A regular joe playing Vampires wouldnt do so well, because he needs to get through the first few rounds where he is less likely to play Caw-Blade and get paired up against random junk.
Side Note: When Faeries was the end all, be all, I played black red aggro because it was the deck with the best matchup against faeries. My first opponent was playing blue-white control with maindeck Paladin-en Vec, something that was very very very odd for the time. My next opponent.....same thing. Probably the only two players in the room playing that card main deck, but I got paired up against them, 0-2. I won my next 5 rounds, but I missed top 8 on breakers.
I bring this up, becuase thats what its like to play Vampires (kind of). If you play it, youre looking for a specific matchup, and you wont find that matchup until later in the tournament.
Tl;dr = Vampires winning is more evidence that this Standard is broken.
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Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Quote from oranges2 »
This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
My point was that Caw-Blade domination is more based on yes it being the best deck, but the better players not bothering to play with anything else. I think this standard has the potential to be/flat out is a lot better than what some people are saying. There's a lot of viable strategies/ways to make other decks very strong against the field of Stoneforges even.
Umm if you want to win you play the best deck, that's why the 'best' players don't play anything else. It was a gradual process of people trying out other decks but always discovering it did worse than Caw-blade, it wasn't tunnel vision or bandwagon-ing. Caw-blade is better against basically everything. And We've seen caw-blade come against many challengers, RUG, Splinter-Twin being the most competitive ones, and destroy them.
You say that there's viable ways to make non-winning decks right now strong against 'stoneforges', but the strength of caw-blade is its versatility and resilience. If it prepares its matchup for fighting vamps it would obliterate it, too, not that it doesn't already beat it most of the time.
And no, if all the best players started playing vamps, it would not unseat caw-blade as the best deck. That is completely ludicrous. The skill disparity isn't THAT high and caw-blade is the way better deck.
1) The amount of players who play Caw-Blade has increased to a pretty dominate portion of the meta. It SHOULD be the majority of all top 16 lists. Simply put. If it wasn't...the deck would be bad, but obviously at this point it isn't. It's the best. But that doesn't mean it's the ONLY way to win. Landstrom has won with "his" deck twice now.
2) Best players aren't having tunnel vision. They LIKE the deck. It IS the best not. NOT the only way to win, but why not bother playing with the best deck if you like it? With Jund, and Valakut (hell even Faeries to an extent), the decks weren't all that fun to play, so the Pros playing it eventually WANTED to move on...there isn't that general consensus with Caw, added to the fact it is simply put the best deck. I am not accusing the pros of ignorance or tunnel vision, the deck is interactive and rewards skill, so of course they are going to play it. Nothing wrong with that...hell it is an entertaining deck to play against.
3) You can take another deck, tune it, know your meta, BE A GOOD PLAYER and win. If you think otherwise then you might as well just get out standard now because there will always be a best deck and chances are the only time you're going to win anything is when you just so happen to be playing with it because you randomly chose it at the beginning of standard and it became/stayed the best.
4) Not saying Vamps would exceed Caw as best deck, that wasn't my point at all. My point is you can PLAY BETTER and do better with different decks in this format. You think Matt rolls into getting crushed by DoJ right away? He doesn't. He is very patient with what is a very aggressive deck because the way the meta is now, not only can he "afford" to be, but it's better served just in case some of those decks are still playing Gideon/DoJ (which some are...even in this very top 8). If the meta adjusted to Vamps, he'd adjust his deck/playing, and still be pretty successful because he is a good player. All players have an opportunity to do this, even with other decks, in this standard.
In summation: ...So stop complaining about the power level of Caw. It is beatable, the meta has the tools available, just play the game.
Vamps is only good right now because Caw-Blade doesn't care about it. Nobody is playing Day of Judgment or Gideon, so the only things that Vamps really has to worry about is Batterskull. If they can get rid of that they'll be able to win fairly easily.
Did Landstrom start with any byes? If so, id assume that is a HUGE advantage playing a non-Caw deck since you can get away with 3 maindeck Manic Vandals.
Vamps is only good right now because Caw-Blade doesn't care about it. Nobody is playing Day of Judgment or Gideon, so the only things that Vamps really has to worry about is Batterskull. If they can get rid of that they'll be able to win fairly easily.
His opponent in the finals had 1 MB DoJ, 1 SB and 2 Gideon SB.
Other Caw decks in the top 8:
Brown: 2 DoJ (SB), 2 Purge (SB)
Higby: 3 DoJ (2 MB, 1 SB), 1 GJ (SB)
Penick: 3 DoJ (SB)
Other decks in the top 8 had 2-3 Pyroclasm/Slagstorm SB.
We done here? I mean I guess full on 4 DoJ MB would be a lot harder, but then Caw is certainly sacrificing a lot/other MUs. And if they switch back to heavy Gideon, then Vamps (and other decks) have answers for that too.
His opponent in the finals had 1 MB DoJ, 1 SB and 2 Gideon SB.
Other Caw decks in the top 8:
Brown: 2 DoJ (SB), 2 Purge (SB)
Higby: 3 DoJ (2 MB, 1 SB), 1 GJ (SB)
Penick: 3 DoJ (SB)
Other decks in the top 8 had 2-3 Pyroclasm/Slagstorm SB.
We done here? I mean I guess full on 4 DoJ MB would be a lot harder, but then Caw is certainly sacrificing a lot/other MUs. And if they switch back to heavy Gideon, then Vamps (and other decks) have answers for that too.
Not really--the reason Vamps (or Hawkward) is good is the prevalance of Caw-Blade. You can't play Day of Judgment against the control deck, so you move it to the board--but then, when your only tool for victory is Batterskull, then Caw-Blade hate is more effective.
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But what this says is that it's the player, not the deck. Probably the best player in the open takes it with "his" deck. Nice to see.
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=21948
I would hope that the fine tunings of a deck in standard would be in order to help put it over the top of what is the best deck in the format. There is nothing wrong with that. 3 MB cards directly are for Caw-Blade, about 6 more in SB (if you count Arc Trail)...I don't think it's even that slanted. The rest of the list is just f'ing good/fast cards. It's super fast aggro, of course it's good against Caw-Blade.
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My point was that Caw-Blade domination is more based on yes it being the best deck, but the better players not bothering to play with anything else. I think this standard has the potential to be/flat out is a lot better than what some people are saying. There's a lot of viable strategies/ways to make other decks very strong against the field of Stoneforges even.
I might try playing Vamps a little bit, but I think I like being the Vengevine guy too, lol. I am torn. So many decks I want to play!
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maybe u guy should be thinking how to tunes your deck for metagaming and know how to play your deck rather just keep saying caw blade will always win.
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dont know if that is true. the invitational started about 20min before the open, so unless he did a quick roll, dropped, somehow was able to sign up....i just heard he bypassed the whole inv because of the legacy thing.
**everyone look at that 9th place deck, i hear that player is awesome and very handsome....6-10 all had 22pts, damn tie breakers put me at 9th**
I am from the Chicago area where Landstrom is from and I got a text from a friend saying he 1-0 dropped the Invitational to play the Standard Open. Landstrom is level 5 so he had two byes for the Standard Open.
edit: the results from round 1 will also confirm my story.
ah yes, that is true. on another note, im glad they are changing the bye-system.
what store u play at? cracker or past-times? i used to play at gamestorm in lemont but found peotone to be a better environment
I'm more north, I play at Xtreme Games and occasionally at Pastimes.
Side Note: When Faeries was the end all, be all, I played black red aggro because it was the deck with the best matchup against faeries. My first opponent was playing blue-white control with maindeck Paladin-en Vec, something that was very very very odd for the time. My next opponent.....same thing. Probably the only two players in the room playing that card main deck, but I got paired up against them, 0-2. I won my next 5 rounds, but I missed top 8 on breakers.
I bring this up, becuase thats what its like to play Vampires (kind of). If you play it, youre looking for a specific matchup, and you wont find that matchup until later in the tournament.
Tl;dr = Vampires winning is more evidence that this Standard is broken.
Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Tier 1.5 at the very best.
He also dodged a bullet by not playing against RUG and Hawkward, both of which would have steamrolled him most likely.
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Umm if you want to win you play the best deck, that's why the 'best' players don't play anything else. It was a gradual process of people trying out other decks but always discovering it did worse than Caw-blade, it wasn't tunnel vision or bandwagon-ing. Caw-blade is better against basically everything. And We've seen caw-blade come against many challengers, RUG, Splinter-Twin being the most competitive ones, and destroy them.
You say that there's viable ways to make non-winning decks right now strong against 'stoneforges', but the strength of caw-blade is its versatility and resilience. If it prepares its matchup for fighting vamps it would obliterate it, too, not that it doesn't already beat it most of the time.
And no, if all the best players started playing vamps, it would not unseat caw-blade as the best deck. That is completely ludicrous. The skill disparity isn't THAT high and caw-blade is the way better deck.
2) Best players aren't having tunnel vision. They LIKE the deck. It IS the best not. NOT the only way to win, but why not bother playing with the best deck if you like it? With Jund, and Valakut (hell even Faeries to an extent), the decks weren't all that fun to play, so the Pros playing it eventually WANTED to move on...there isn't that general consensus with Caw, added to the fact it is simply put the best deck. I am not accusing the pros of ignorance or tunnel vision, the deck is interactive and rewards skill, so of course they are going to play it. Nothing wrong with that...hell it is an entertaining deck to play against.
3) You can take another deck, tune it, know your meta, BE A GOOD PLAYER and win. If you think otherwise then you might as well just get out standard now because there will always be a best deck and chances are the only time you're going to win anything is when you just so happen to be playing with it because you randomly chose it at the beginning of standard and it became/stayed the best.
4) Not saying Vamps would exceed Caw as best deck, that wasn't my point at all. My point is you can PLAY BETTER and do better with different decks in this format. You think Matt rolls into getting crushed by DoJ right away? He doesn't. He is very patient with what is a very aggressive deck because the way the meta is now, not only can he "afford" to be, but it's better served just in case some of those decks are still playing Gideon/DoJ (which some are...even in this very top 8). If the meta adjusted to Vamps, he'd adjust his deck/playing, and still be pretty successful because he is a good player. All players have an opportunity to do this, even with other decks, in this standard.
In summation: ...So stop complaining about the power level of Caw. It is beatable, the meta has the tools available, just play the game.
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His opponent in the finals had 1 MB DoJ, 1 SB and 2 Gideon SB.
Other Caw decks in the top 8:
Brown: 2 DoJ (SB), 2 Purge (SB)
Higby: 3 DoJ (2 MB, 1 SB), 1 GJ (SB)
Penick: 3 DoJ (SB)
Other decks in the top 8 had 2-3 Pyroclasm/Slagstorm SB.
We done here? I mean I guess full on 4 DoJ MB would be a lot harder, but then Caw is certainly sacrificing a lot/other MUs. And if they switch back to heavy Gideon, then Vamps (and other decks) have answers for that too.
Not really--the reason Vamps (or Hawkward) is good is the prevalance of Caw-Blade. You can't play Day of Judgment against the control deck, so you move it to the board--but then, when your only tool for victory is Batterskull, then Caw-Blade hate is more effective.