Maybe it is the deck that I play and it cares not for a 4/4 green creature with shroud and is hard as hell to kill.
I usually play Allies, or some other fast aggro deck (Elves) and everytime an opponent has played a thrun, I look at it and think, you know it is kind of Underwhelming.
I have yet to lose to a deck that plays thrun.
I was wondering why is it underperforming against me?
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Thrun is an irrelevant 4/4 for 4 with irrelevant abilities. He does nothing when he comes into play. His only abilities are being really hard to kill, because of the troll shroud, regeneration, and a lack of interest in killing a 4/4 that doesn't actually do anything.
So yeah, Thrun isn't bad, per se, but he's certainly not good. Mediocre at best.
Edit: And I say this as somebody who has won at least two games solely because of a 1-of Thrun wielding a sword against Ux control's fistful of Condemns.
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But midrange is kinda bad at the moment, and most GW Midrange decks are more interested in playing with Vengevine then trying to Voltron up a threat out of Thrun.
Thrun is irrelevant against you because linear tribal decks don't care about a vanilla 4/4. Both Elves' and Allies' central gameplan revolves around building a critical mass of dudes, making them big, and via Trample or Kabira Evangel, bypassing and invalidating every obstacle in your way. Thrun is obviously terrible here.
Imagine, however, that you're a CawBlade player who has tuned his list for the mirror, eschewing mass removal options like Day of Judgment for tempo spells (Tumble Magnet, Oust) and single-target spot removal (Journey to Nowhere, Condemn, etc). Your opponent plays Thrun. You either dig like mad for your one/two-of Sun Titan or Baneslayer Angel or you're off to the races because you have literally no other outs to this card (exception being sword). And as a green mage, your opponent is most likely packing removal in some form to your sword. Now you don't have inevitability either. Cross your fingers and start red-zoning that Colonnade because thanks to Thrun and whatever other green menaces your opponent is packing, be they Vengevines, Primeval Titans, or even Stoneforge Mystics, things just got ugly.
Not that Thrun is the be-all-end-all solution to the metagame, as on its own it's still a hard-to-kill vanilla 4/4. However, with proper context, Thrun is a dominating force and with proper support, quite a potent weapon against public enemy #1.
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Thrun is irrelevant against you because linear tribal decks don't care about a vanilla 4/4. Both Elves' and Allies' central gameplan revolves around building a critical mass of dudes, making them big, and via Trample or Kabira Evangel, bypassing and invalidating every obstacle in your way. Thrun is obviously terrible here.
Imagine, however, that you're a CawBlade player who has tuned his list for the mirror, eschewing mass removal options like Day of Judgment for tempo spells (Tumble Magnet, Oust) and single-target spot removal (Journey to Nowhere, Condemn, etc). Your opponent plays Thrun. You either dig like mad for your one/two-of Sun Titan or Baneslayer Angel or you're off to the races because you have literally no other outs to this card (exception being sword). And as a green mage, your opponent is most likely packing removal in some form to your sword. Now you don't have inevitability either. Cross your fingers and start red-zoning that Colonnade because thanks to Thrun and whatever other green menaces your opponent is packing, be they Vengevines, Primeval Titans, or even Stoneforge Mystics, things just got ugly.
Not that Thrun is the be-all-end-all solution to the metagame, as on its own it's still a hard-to-kill vanilla 4/4. However, with proper context, Thrun is a dominating force and with proper support, quite a potent weapon against public enemy #1.
IF it is potent enemy number 1, then how come no decks that play it consistently beat Caw Blade. I mean Sphinx of Jwar Isle to me was a more effective card because it atleast have Evasion on its own. Thrun needs you to dedicate cards to it for it to be a legit threat.
So why was he hyped again? When I saw him spoiled I thought mehh but I can hearing that after jace rotates he is going to be a monster. But I just do not see it.
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Thrun is awesome, just not quite top notch yet and with how quick the meta is atm he is underwhelming but I'm almost certain he can easily become great post rotation or even post NPH with a sword that can get rid of his problems all day
IF it is potent enemy number 1, then how come no decks that play it consistently beat Caw Blade. I mean Sphinx of Jwar Isle to me was a more effective card because it atleast have Evasion on its own. Thrun needs you to dedicate cards to it for it to be a legit threat.
So why was he hyped again? When I saw him spoiled I thought mehh but I can hearing that after jace rotates he is going to be a monster. But I just do not see it.
G/W/x Vengevine decks, the natural home for Thrun in the established meta, are heavily favoured against CawBlade. However, all the green creature decks that would otherwise keep Caw in check are dogs to Valakut (and to a lesser extent, RUG). Despite the general consensus that Valakut shouldn't be played by anyone intending to win a tournament, Mountains and Titans refuse to go away. Caw isn't the problem; Pyroclasm and Titans are.
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Lack of space in my decks that would play him has been the primary issue for me. I could play thrun. He'd probably help me out in the CawBlade match-up. But ultimately, I have better four drops to be putting in my deck first, such as vengevine, jace, even hero of bladehold.
I think the rotating of some of the best 4-drops in the format is one of the reasons people think he will be better after rotation.
Thrun can be quite sick against UB Control. I had games where he killed players with hands full of counters and removal on its own, their only out being Black Suns Zenith or Grave Titan. I'm afraid he's not that good against Caw-Go though because of their Hawks with protection from green. Against Aggro he's solid but most of the time Obstinate Baloth is better there.
Anyway, I saw a Thrun-Rock-Deck making T8 at a National Qualifier recently. Thrun+Stoneforge can be realy good.
Thrun and Glissa are both really awesome, and might make a top quality rock deck post rotation. But until rotation, they have no home.
Haveing a solid body, and being nearly unkillable when the top 3 decks either
1) Ramp into massive threats
2) Have tons of chump blockers, and easy access to a peice of equipment that virtually blanks Thrun.
3) Is amazingly uninteractive and explodes on turns 4-7, regardless of board state
There are just no midrange or aggro decks for him to feast on
Thrun is good against control, not really caw-control but control in general. Maybe the Pro-white sword makes him better against those caws.. we´ll see.
Against Aggro he is more of a t4 wall of omens.
I really think the new Sword is going to hurt CawBlade more than it hurts it. What I'm looking at right now for Nationals is not CawBlade but will be running Sword and Peace which should be able to really put a damper on them. I think Sword and Peace could also be what midrange decks needed against Valakut. Turn 3 attacking with a Sword of War and Peace'd Bird/Elf and hitting for 8+ damage and gaining another 4-5 life to quickly put you out of one or two triggers from Valakut...
I play a tweaked mono green ramp deck using Thrun and Eldrazi Conscription. I've only lost a few times against allies, usually when they had into the roil for the aura but even then it is a pretty big beatdown for them.
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There are 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't.
But midrange is kinda bad at the moment, and most GW Midrange decks are more interested in playing with Vengevine then trying to Voltron up a threat out of Thrun.
Uh, have you seen a creature that is BAD at swinging a Sword? Thrun's good with a Sword because the Swords are good. Squadron Hawks on their own aren't really great, though they do provide stalling and the Jace engine, but they become the finisher of choice with the Swords because they fly and the Swords are good. Thrun is awful.
SicksEyeUrn: Are you really trying to argue that Thrun is good and/or relevant in the current meta because you can beat Allies with your Thrun-Eldrazi Conscription deck?
Uh, have you seen a creature that is BAD at swinging a Sword? Thrun's good with a Sword because the Swords are good. Squadron Hawks on their own aren't really great, though they do provide stalling and the Jace engine, but they become the finisher of choice with the Swords because they fly and the Swords are good. Thrun is awful.
SicksEyeUrn: Are you really trying to argue that Thrun is good and/or relevant in the current meta because you can beat Allies with your Thrun-Eldrazi Conscription deck?
and the bad thing is his Thrun Conscription deck would probably get murdered by my ally deck. Mono green decks mean GG vs my allies.
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I think most of the hype was because troll ascetic/loxodon warhammer was so good. So people figured thrun would be good. Thrun has his uses and is great when he plays his roll, but he's not the game-winner troll ascetic used to be.
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Uh, have you seen a creature that is BAD at swinging a Sword?
Um, yes? Many times I have equipped and had the creature killed either in response or on attacking. Or it has been tapped by tumble magnet, which is ever increasing in popularity. Because of this, most creatures that don't replace themsleves are not that good at swinging with swords. Obviously, you can play around these things up to a point, but then you aren't swinging with broken swords. Thrun simply doesn't have this problem; equipping it can basically never result in a tempo loss for you.
Thrun wielding swords has more than proved his worth for my deck IMO. It'll only be better once I get Sword of War and Peace. The only way he dies is if you let him die and I don't understand some of you who keep saying he can't end games. He very much can. Thrun not being good against Valakut is not because Thrun is bad. Its because midrange is bad against Valakut. He isn't the end all be all but if you are playing GW midrange (pretty much the only place he can work) then he is awesome.
The problem is that the only currently viable green based decks, valakut and RUG, don't need him. They are decks that have a very specific plan - the lists are tight with that plan in mind - and he really doesn't do anything relevant for them.
Um, yes? Many times I have equipped and had the creature killed either in response or on attacking. Or it has been tapped by tumble magnet, which is ever increasing in popularity. Because of this, most creatures that don't replace themsleves are not that good at swinging with swords. Obviously, you can play around these things up to a point, but then you aren't swinging with broken swords. Thrun simply doesn't have this problem; equipping it can basically never result in a tempo loss for you.
That has nothing to do with the Sword; it has to do with the removal your opponent is running. Equipping it may not result in a tempo loss, but playing Thrun will, as playing a 4-drop with GG in its mana cost is not what most decks want to do. RUG wants Titans early, and mono green wants bigger fatties, not midrange blockers.
It's sad to say, but there isn't a good tier 1 deck that thrun would make any better. there's not even a tier 2 deck that thrun would be useful in. Midrange isn't a viable deck right now.
Black/Green could be a viable deck IF they get a decent card advantage engine. Phyrexian Arena would be ideal, but anything that would allow the deck to have a consistant source of CA would put BG rock back towards the top of the pile.
If Arena or something similar gets put in M12, I'd grab thrun then. Until then it's just not worth it.
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I usually play Allies, or some other fast aggro deck (Elves) and everytime an opponent has played a thrun, I look at it and think, you know it is kind of Underwhelming.
I have yet to lose to a deck that plays thrun.
I was wondering why is it underperforming against me?
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
So yeah, Thrun isn't bad, per se, but he's certainly not good. Mediocre at best.
Edit: And I say this as somebody who has won at least two games solely because of a 1-of Thrun wielding a sword against Ux control's fistful of Condemns.
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Thrun is, however, good at swinging a Sword of War and Peace or Sword of Feast and Famine. He's a respectable creature for a GW midrange aggro deck for those reasons.
But midrange is kinda bad at the moment, and most GW Midrange decks are more interested in playing with Vengevine then trying to Voltron up a threat out of Thrun.
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Thrun is irrelevant against you because linear tribal decks don't care about a vanilla 4/4. Both Elves' and Allies' central gameplan revolves around building a critical mass of dudes, making them big, and via Trample or Kabira Evangel, bypassing and invalidating every obstacle in your way. Thrun is obviously terrible here.
Imagine, however, that you're a CawBlade player who has tuned his list for the mirror, eschewing mass removal options like Day of Judgment for tempo spells (Tumble Magnet, Oust) and single-target spot removal (Journey to Nowhere, Condemn, etc). Your opponent plays Thrun. You either dig like mad for your one/two-of Sun Titan or Baneslayer Angel or you're off to the races because you have literally no other outs to this card (exception being sword). And as a green mage, your opponent is most likely packing removal in some form to your sword. Now you don't have inevitability either. Cross your fingers and start red-zoning that Colonnade because thanks to Thrun and whatever other green menaces your opponent is packing, be they Vengevines, Primeval Titans, or even Stoneforge Mystics, things just got ugly.
Not that Thrun is the be-all-end-all solution to the metagame, as on its own it's still a hard-to-kill vanilla 4/4. However, with proper context, Thrun is a dominating force and with proper support, quite a potent weapon against public enemy #1.
IF it is potent enemy number 1, then how come no decks that play it consistently beat Caw Blade. I mean Sphinx of Jwar Isle to me was a more effective card because it atleast have Evasion on its own. Thrun needs you to dedicate cards to it for it to be a legit threat.
So why was he hyped again? When I saw him spoiled I thought mehh but I can hearing that after jace rotates he is going to be a monster. But I just do not see it.
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G/W/x Vengevine decks, the natural home for Thrun in the established meta, are heavily favoured against CawBlade. However, all the green creature decks that would otherwise keep Caw in check are dogs to Valakut (and to a lesser extent, RUG). Despite the general consensus that Valakut shouldn't be played by anyone intending to win a tournament, Mountains and Titans refuse to go away. Caw isn't the problem; Pyroclasm and Titans are.
I think the rotating of some of the best 4-drops in the format is one of the reasons people think he will be better after rotation.
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Anyway, I saw a Thrun-Rock-Deck making T8 at a National Qualifier recently. Thrun+Stoneforge can be realy good.
Haveing a solid body, and being nearly unkillable when the top 3 decks either
1) Ramp into massive threats
2) Have tons of chump blockers, and easy access to a peice of equipment that virtually blanks Thrun.
3) Is amazingly uninteractive and explodes on turns 4-7, regardless of board state
There are just no midrange or aggro decks for him to feast on
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I really think the new Sword is going to hurt CawBlade more than it hurts it. What I'm looking at right now for Nationals is not CawBlade but will be running Sword and Peace which should be able to really put a damper on them. I think Sword and Peace could also be what midrange decks needed against Valakut. Turn 3 attacking with a Sword of War and Peace'd Bird/Elf and hitting for 8+ damage and gaining another 4-5 life to quickly put you out of one or two triggers from Valakut...
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Uh, have you seen a creature that is BAD at swinging a Sword? Thrun's good with a Sword because the Swords are good. Squadron Hawks on their own aren't really great, though they do provide stalling and the Jace engine, but they become the finisher of choice with the Swords because they fly and the Swords are good. Thrun is awful.
SicksEyeUrn: Are you really trying to argue that Thrun is good and/or relevant in the current meta because you can beat Allies with your Thrun-Eldrazi Conscription deck?
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and the bad thing is his Thrun Conscription deck would probably get murdered by my ally deck. Mono green decks mean GG vs my allies.
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I do wonder with the advent of Beast Within, the new sword and Batterskull, would Thrun become more relevant?
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Um, yes? Many times I have equipped and had the creature killed either in response or on attacking. Or it has been tapped by tumble magnet, which is ever increasing in popularity. Because of this, most creatures that don't replace themsleves are not that good at swinging with swords. Obviously, you can play around these things up to a point, but then you aren't swinging with broken swords. Thrun simply doesn't have this problem; equipping it can basically never result in a tempo loss for you.
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How would Beast Within make Thrun good?
That has nothing to do with the Sword; it has to do with the removal your opponent is running. Equipping it may not result in a tempo loss, but playing Thrun will, as playing a 4-drop with GG in its mana cost is not what most decks want to do. RUG wants Titans early, and mono green wants bigger fatties, not midrange blockers.
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Black/Green could be a viable deck IF they get a decent card advantage engine. Phyrexian Arena would be ideal, but anything that would allow the deck to have a consistant source of CA would put BG rock back towards the top of the pile.
If Arena or something similar gets put in M12, I'd grab thrun then. Until then it's just not worth it.
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