@ThaPhantom - Ah, of course. You're right, it would kill them on the spot. Nvm then, I support the idea of using Blue Sun's Zenith as a wincon.
I think that graveyard hate (which is cheap and easy in this Standard with Ravenous Trap, Nihil Spellbomb, and Leyline of the Void) would give us fits. However, the likelihood that anyone would even have that stuff in the sideboard is lower than removal/counters. We should be using Stoic Rebuttal, Spell Pierce.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing:
Standard GOverwhelming StompyG RUKiln ThiefUR WUGideon ControlUW BBSkinrender AggroBB RGLiquimetal Control (in development)GR
trigon of thought may be a card worth investigating. If you have infinite mana you could exile it from your grave and draw every card from your deck. While every card would hurt, perhaps just drawing into the other combo pieces you need to go off?
EDIT: nevermind, the Trigon says "put counter on trigon of thought", therefore you would not be able to charge up your myr to draw. Perhaps Temple Bell instead?
Actually, that does work, as far as I'm aware. Trigon of Thought references itself using it's own name. If something else gains the abilities of Trigon of Thought, it treats a reference to itself by name to mean itself, if that makes sense.
I know for sure that Necrotic Ooze works this way, so I'm pretty sure that this works the same way.
I like the idea of Renegade Doppleganger or Cryptoplasm, but it seems like it might slow the deck down. I'll try it out this weekend.
I haven't done extensive testing, but Hedron Crabs help a lot from what I've tested thus far. I don't like the cryptologist. Why? She's weak. And a mana dump. 1UU to get her to loot? Nope. I could see popping her down and then just waiting for the opportune moment to level. But the crabs also have synergy with Grand Architect, much more so than cryptologist does... Having 3 toughness is relevant in a world of burst lightnings and arc trails.
Good call on the Blue Sun's Zenith, I didn't even take that into mind. I just dismissed it as JUST a draw spell, which it is not in this deck.
And why is Decimator Web better than Lux Cannon? how the heck is someone coming back from an annihilated board? Sure it won't TECHNICALLY win the game, but honestly, who wouldn't just scoop there? It's a preference thing at that point.
Also, let me reiterate - nothing bad happens when I cast Tezz 2.0. He almost always guarantees the proper set up. Am I partial to him? Not really. But he's good here.
I'll be testing this weekend. I'll post a list later tonight/tomorrow to let y'all know what I'm testing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
This might sound crazy, bit could we find a way for Vengevine to work in this deck? I'm almost positive that'll push this deck over to maybe Tier 1.5-2..
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Welder + Khalni Gem + Soliton + Prototype Portal+ an exiled Precursor Golem = Infinite golems + Tainted Strike = Infinite Poison counters to end the game (Cancel in there to stop any doom blades/bolts/etc from chaining all of my golems).
Kuldotha Forgemaster as a sacrifice mechanism, and also to bring Welder out onto the field if it isn't already. Piston Sledge also as a sacrifice mechanism.
Still feels rough around the edges, but I think it's hilarious. I've been wanting to do this with Precursor Golem since Scars came out...lol
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing:
:symrg:Domri's Savagery:symrg:
:symw:Humans:symw:
:symw::symu::symg:Trostani Bant:symw::symu::symg:
:sympu:Architect:sympu:
@Zethren - just thinking here...the prototype portal cannot be imprinted by welder's ability, correct? Actually....it can just it wouldn't be able to produce any artifacts?
Yeah, but Conley Woods is the Dredge of Magic players. Everything that is good and reasonable in the world says his style of play and type of deckbuilding shouldn't work, but it does. It. Just. Works.
He's not just out of the box, he defies any sort of geometric shape. He's that special kind of certifiably-insane evil genius.
@Zethren - just thinking here...the prototype portal cannot be imprinted by welder's ability, correct? Actually....it can just it wouldn't be able to produce any artifacts?
Yeah, now that you mention it I don't think you would be able to exile a card from your hand using a Welded Prototype Portal.
However, Prototype Portal says nothing about having the exiled card return to your hand in the event that Prototype Portal is sent to the graveyard.
So, If my assumption is correct, you would be able to play Prototype Portal, exile Precursor Golem, and then send Prototype Portal to the graveyard to be Welded.
I would think it would work that way.
EDIT:
And if that doesn't work, which I'm now beginning to suspect that it doesn't, you could always just leave the Prototype Portal on the battlefield and instead Imprint a Voltaic Key with Myr Welder so that you can use Prototype Portal and untap it as many times as you want during your turn. Same effect, I suppose.
Yeah, but Conley Woods is the Dredge of Magic players. Everything that is good and reasonable in the world says his style of play and type of deckbuilding shouldn't work, but it does. It. Just. Works.
He's not just out of the box, he defies any sort of geometric shape. He's that special kind of certifiably-insane evil genius.
It might be possible to run this with G.
You could Fauna Shaman combo pieces into the graveyard, maybe?
Necrotic Ooze absolutely goes in this deck. I think the arbalest combo might actually be viable here as well. Being able to Tezz up the various combo pieces should make it possible to run less of them and run more "good" cards. Having 8 copies of the centerpiece makes the entire thing much more likely to succeed.
Masticore and Riddlesmith help throw stuff into the grave as well. plus masticore is a juicy attach target for your infinite mana.
Let me say that Memnites are absolutely awesome in this build. They give huge draw utility with the Riddlesmiths, make your Forgemasters THAT much easier to pop, and give you ramp off of Grand Architect. They are by far much better than I gave them credit for. They even make a great target for Tezz 2.0.
Speaking of Tezz, every time I cast him, something good happens. Every. Time. The guy is a beast in here, a definite 3-of.
I'm definitely not comfortable NOT running counterspells. I know they need to be here. The list is SO tight though.
I feel like I'm running the proper amount of combo pieces. If everything isn't there for Myr Welder, it's usually all there for something else, like a Forgemaster search.
Myr Turbine, like I stated earlier in this thread, is an awesome card here, but only as one. Since I pretty consistently have a Tezz out if my Welder can go online, it's an instant kill T5.
I like this build. It spits out a bunch of threats and says "deal with this, or you're dead".
That being said, I'm open to suggestions. It can always be better. I really want to squeeze in counterspells somewhere.
Oh, and why is everyone not running fetchlands? Makes your Hedron Crabs pretty awesome, and thins out your deck of crappy land draws mid-late game...
Why not run Chimeric Mass instead of Memnite? It can give you the same draw power with Riddlesmith for 0 mana and when you're going off you can pay 1 to turn it into a 0/0 creature, dies, remove it with Welder's ability, and if you also have the Lux Cannon imprinted you can proceed to wipe their board, create a 20/20 creature and win that turn.
Why not run Chimeric Mass instead of Memnite? It can give you the same draw power with Riddlesmith for 0 mana and when you're going off you can pay 1 to turn it into a 0/0 creature, dies, remove it with Welder's ability, and if you also have the Lux Cannon imprinted you can proceed to wipe their board, create a 20/20 creature and win that turn.
You'd think I would've thought of that, that is by far the best suggestion I've seen on this thread. I will definitely be replacing it, and trying it again. Thanks!
There's a problem I have with this deck, however. After some more testing, this deck is just screwed to Rush Down style decks (K-Red, Boros, Vamps). What's our gameplan? Just pray they cant kill T4? I just don't think that'll cut it, we need to have some kind of plan. This is a type of deck that I see the metagame can influence heavily, at least what's in the MB.
Also, I do think that we want to have as few combo pieces as possible. Why would you design a deck that makes it so incredibly difficult to kill someone, needing five to six pieces? That's not practical, not in a world of decent opponents. That being said, we need to find the most consistent, practical, easiest way to kill someone.
Now, I still have 3-6 slots to play with. I don't know about Grand Architect here, I mean, what are we ramping into exactly? Doesn't seem to be a point. Part of me wants to run more draw, probably. But open to suggestions. I'm also not sure about Kuldotha Forgemaster, when it works it works well. When it doesn't, it causes me to lose most of the time, screwing up my draws. That and BSC is Jace-able, which IS relevant (/sigh...). I have thrown in Molten-Tail Masticores for now, but they could easily be lowered in number or removed if there's a better suggestion. They seem like they'd be okay, so I'm going to test them.
I saw a suggestion about Necrotic Ooze, what would be the best pieces to fit in? It already has Soliton as a target, but what else? I suppose I'll go rummage through that topic....
Also, you said you wanted more draw, I know its not ACTUALLY CA but you could run Preordain. It will allow you to dig 3 deep for a welder if you wanted.
Also, you said you wanted more draw, I know its not ACTUALLY CA but you could run Preordain. It will allow you to dig 3 deep for a welder if you wanted.
I've thought about doing something like that, it doesn't seem like a bad idea. Scry seems pretty good here. This combo isn't about straight CA anyways, so I wouldn't personally mind.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
It might be possible to run this with G.
You could Fauna Shaman combo pieces into the graveyard, maybe?
I was going to mention this as well because it will give the deck a whole lot of consistency. It allows you to run less copies of things like Forgemaster and Masticore while still having the potential to use them. It should be fairly simple to splash with Misty Rainforest.
I'll certainly be playing it. and if you doubt the usefulness of this spell.... well, good luck! lol. You'll be on the receiving end of it soon enough, when your Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker gets turned into an elephant.
I was going to mention this as well because it will give the deck a whole lot of consistency. It allows you to run less copies of things like Forgemaster and Masticore while still having the potential to use them. It should be fairly simple to splash with Misty Rainforest.
Just tried this in MWS, and it works very well, actually. Green is very splashable, I moved in Verdant Catacombs in place of Marsh Flats. I can only run 2 forests now, so that's rather nice.
It makes me begin to believe that Tezz isn't needed here. In the build I'm testing, they're usually dead T4-5, and Tezz would only slow that down. I'm testing 4x Preordain and they're helping. Maybe we could drop him for Duress/IoK? I don't want to lose the access to Black, makes our SB that much better...
Running Fauna Shaman makes me want to try Necrotic Ooze. Back to testing...
EDIT: Holy god, I didn't even think about Necrotic Ooze properly. It's going in for sure. Straight up insurance.
Yeah, but Conley Woods is the Dredge of Magic players. Everything that is good and reasonable in the world says his style of play and type of deckbuilding shouldn't work, but it does. It. Just. Works.
He's not just out of the box, he defies any sort of geometric shape. He's that special kind of certifiably-insane evil genius.
I think that graveyard hate (which is cheap and easy in this Standard with Ravenous Trap, Nihil Spellbomb, and Leyline of the Void) would give us fits. However, the likelihood that anyone would even have that stuff in the sideboard is lower than removal/counters. We should be using Stoic Rebuttal, Spell Pierce.
Standard
GOverwhelming StompyG
RUKiln ThiefUR
WUGideon ControlUW
BBSkinrender AggroBB
RGLiquimetal Control (in development)GR
Extended
WUBEsper AggroBUW
Actually, that does work, as far as I'm aware. Trigon of Thought references itself using it's own name. If something else gains the abilities of Trigon of Thought, it treats a reference to itself by name to mean itself, if that makes sense.
I know for sure that Necrotic Ooze works this way, so I'm pretty sure that this works the same way.
I haven't done extensive testing, but Hedron Crabs help a lot from what I've tested thus far. I don't like the cryptologist. Why? She's weak. And a mana dump. 1UU to get her to loot? Nope. I could see popping her down and then just waiting for the opportune moment to level. But the crabs also have synergy with Grand Architect, much more so than cryptologist does... Having 3 toughness is relevant in a world of burst lightnings and arc trails.
Good call on the Blue Sun's Zenith, I didn't even take that into mind. I just dismissed it as JUST a draw spell, which it is not in this deck.
And why is Decimator Web better than Lux Cannon? how the heck is someone coming back from an annihilated board? Sure it won't TECHNICALLY win the game, but honestly, who wouldn't just scoop there? It's a preference thing at that point.
Also, let me reiterate - nothing bad happens when I cast Tezz 2.0. He almost always guarantees the proper set up. Am I partial to him? Not really. But he's good here.
I'll be testing this weekend. I'll post a list later tonight/tomorrow to let y'all know what I'm testing.
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
Yep, I'm using it as a kill, currently as a one-of. Working pretty well, I end up targeting myself with it sometimes. I could see it being a two-of.
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
Throwing Black in for protection and some speed (Necrotic Ooze, Grim Discovery) doesnt hurt either.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Shriekhorn
Self-Mill? Check
Trinket Mage? Check.
Can be Forgemastered when spent? Check.
4x Precursor Golem
4x Soliton
4x Kuldotha Forgemaster
Artifacts/Equipment
4x Prototype Portal
4x Titan Forge
4x Piston Sledge
4x Khalni Gem
4x Tainted Strike
4x Cancel
Lands
4x Halimar Depths
6x Island
10x Swamp
That's the Myr Welder deck I've been thinking about putting together.
Welder + Khalni Gem + Soliton + Titan Forge= Infinite 9/9 Golems
Welder + Khalni Gem + Soliton + Prototype Portal+ an exiled Precursor Golem = Infinite golems + Tainted Strike = Infinite Poison counters to end the game (Cancel in there to stop any doom blades/bolts/etc from chaining all of my golems).
Kuldotha Forgemaster as a sacrifice mechanism, and also to bring Welder out onto the field if it isn't already. Piston Sledge also as a sacrifice mechanism.
Still feels rough around the edges, but I think it's hilarious. I've been wanting to do this with Precursor Golem since Scars came out...lol
:symrg:Domri's Savagery:symrg:
:symw:Humans:symw:
:symw::symu::symg:Trostani Bant:symw::symu::symg:
:sympu:Architect:sympu:
Yeah, now that you mention it I don't think you would be able to exile a card from your hand using a Welded Prototype Portal.
However, Prototype Portal says nothing about having the exiled card return to your hand in the event that Prototype Portal is sent to the graveyard.
So, If my assumption is correct, you would be able to play Prototype Portal, exile Precursor Golem, and then send Prototype Portal to the graveyard to be Welded.
I would think it would work that way.
EDIT:
And if that doesn't work, which I'm now beginning to suspect that it doesn't, you could always just leave the Prototype Portal on the battlefield and instead Imprint a Voltaic Key with Myr Welder so that you can use Prototype Portal and untap it as many times as you want during your turn. Same effect, I suppose.
:symrg:Domri's Savagery:symrg:
:symw:Humans:symw:
:symw::symu::symg:Trostani Bant:symw::symu::symg:
:sympu:Architect:sympu:
EDH:
R Norin The Annoying R
BUG Mimeoplasm BUG
Casual:
BBB Gravepact! BBB
UUU Blackvise UUU
GR Pandemonium GR
You could Fauna Shaman combo pieces into the graveyard, maybe?
Necrotic Ooze absolutely goes in this deck. I think the arbalest combo might actually be viable here as well. Being able to Tezz up the various combo pieces should make it possible to run less of them and run more "good" cards. Having 8 copies of the centerpiece makes the entire thing much more likely to succeed.
Masticore and Riddlesmith help throw stuff into the grave as well. plus masticore is a juicy attach target for your infinite mana.
BBB Mono-Black Vat BBB
GGG Mono-Green Infect GGG
Why not run Chimeric Mass instead of Memnite? It can give you the same draw power with Riddlesmith for 0 mana and when you're going off you can pay 1 to turn it into a 0/0 creature, dies, remove it with Welder's ability, and if you also have the Lux Cannon imprinted you can proceed to wipe their board, create a 20/20 creature and win that turn.
You'd think I would've thought of that, that is by far the best suggestion I've seen on this thread. I will definitely be replacing it, and trying it again. Thanks!
There's a problem I have with this deck, however. After some more testing, this deck is just screwed to Rush Down style decks (K-Red, Boros, Vamps). What's our gameplan? Just pray they cant kill T4? I just don't think that'll cut it, we need to have some kind of plan. This is a type of deck that I see the metagame can influence heavily, at least what's in the MB.
Also, I do think that we want to have as few combo pieces as possible. Why would you design a deck that makes it so incredibly difficult to kill someone, needing five to six pieces? That's not practical, not in a world of decent opponents. That being said, we need to find the most consistent, practical, easiest way to kill someone.
Here's an updated list.
3x Molten-Tail Masticore
4x Hedron Crab
4x Riddlesmith
4x Chimeric Mass
4x Myr Welder
3x Soliton
3x Khalni Gem
3x Lux Cannon
1x Myr Reservoir
Walkers:
3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Spells:
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Marsh Flats
4x Swamp
11x Island
Now, I still have 3-6 slots to play with. I don't know about Grand Architect here, I mean, what are we ramping into exactly? Doesn't seem to be a point. Part of me wants to run more draw, probably. But open to suggestions. I'm also not sure about Kuldotha Forgemaster, when it works it works well. When it doesn't, it causes me to lose most of the time, screwing up my draws. That and BSC is Jace-able, which IS relevant (/sigh...). I have thrown in Molten-Tail Masticores for now, but they could easily be lowered in number or removed if there's a better suggestion. They seem like they'd be okay, so I'm going to test them.
I was thinking maybe Mana Leak, maybe Duress or Inquisition of Kozilek. Makes this deck far too streamlined though...
I saw a suggestion about Necrotic Ooze, what would be the best pieces to fit in? It already has Soliton as a target, but what else? I suppose I'll go rummage through that topic....
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=299420
Good point, I suppose I should put some time into actually thinking, eh?
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=299420
I've thought about doing something like that, it doesn't seem like a bad idea. Scry seems pretty good here. This combo isn't about straight CA anyways, so I wouldn't personally mind.
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
I was going to mention this as well because it will give the deck a whole lot of consistency. It allows you to run less copies of things like Forgemaster and Masticore while still having the potential to use them. It should be fairly simple to splash with Misty Rainforest.
Just tried this in MWS, and it works very well, actually. Green is very splashable, I moved in Verdant Catacombs in place of Marsh Flats. I can only run 2 forests now, so that's rather nice.
It makes me begin to believe that Tezz isn't needed here. In the build I'm testing, they're usually dead T4-5, and Tezz would only slow that down. I'm testing 4x Preordain and they're helping. Maybe we could drop him for Duress/IoK? I don't want to lose the access to Black, makes our SB that much better...
Running Fauna Shaman makes me want to try Necrotic Ooze. Back to testing...
EDIT: Holy god, I didn't even think about Necrotic Ooze properly. It's going in for sure. Straight up insurance.
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=298311&highlight=welder
Which would include...?
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!