I like Myr Welder. It's breakable. I've been thinking for days of the best way to break it. I'm thinking that a dredge feel is the way to go.
If there's a way to get three (out of four) pieces to the combo in your yard, you can combo off as soon as summoning sickness wears off.
Two ideas here:
Soliton > Khalni Gem > Lux Cannon. Decimate their board, kill them with a 1/4.
Soliton > Khalni Gem > Myr Turbine. Yep, making infinite dudes.
Those are just the things that come to mind as good.
-I like the idea of the Myr Turbine better, because it makes Stoic Rebuttal a hard counter. And if you can do this t4, then.. you just win.
-Myr Reservoir seems good, but might be too slow.
-Archive Trap seems pretty good here, T1 Crab, T2 Fetchland, Mill 3, Crack, Mill 3, Archive Trap yourself, and BAM. 19 cards in your yard.
-It scares me to not be running some kind of destruction. I was thinking you could splash black for Duress/IoK mainboard, SB destruction. Gives you access to Memoricide as well.
I'd like to make this deck competitive. I just really like Myr Welder, and want it to be playable.
Ideas and constructive criticism is welcome.
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I was gonna add in Decimator Web as the kill condition, just to kill them 3 ways at once, but either of your kill cards seem fine.
The main concern I have with this deck is getting your Khalni gem + soliton in to your graveyard with any level of consistency. I see that you have Enclave Cryptologist for that, but I was thinking more along the lines of Riddlesmith and maybe Molten-tail masticore to drop things from your hand.
What your trying to do with Archive trap is cute, buuuut it won't work. It clearly specifies "target opponent".
Without the ability to fill our graveyard quickly, we'll need to find new ways of getting the pieces there. Soliton can be played normally, can block and die or whatever, but it's more difficult with the gem. If we play it looking to destroy it, we open ourselves up to massive card (and land) disadvantage. That's why I like riddlesmith discarding from hand... Only problem is GETTING it into your hand!
Hence, I've been thinking of Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. His +1 ability is invaluable in this deck!
Without the ability to fill our graveyard quickly, we'll need to find new ways of getting the pieces there. Soliton can be played normally, can block and die or whatever, but it's more difficult with the gem. If we play it looking to destroy it, we open ourselves up to massive card (and land) disadvantage. That's why I like riddlesmith discarding from hand... Only problem is GETTING it into your hand!
Here's my problem with Riddlesmith. It just seems like the number of artifacts we'd be running is so low, and so cost intensive, that he seems like he might be a problem. You're right, the card filter is awesome, and that's the reason why he's sitting with the pile of cards I have for this brew, I just think we need to make it slightly more consistent than that. If we could run more artifacts, Mox Opal could be an option.
I've thought of this as well. It's a very good strategy, but I might cut the Forgemaster count down to three.
What if we ran Riddlesmith and Hedron Crabs? Hedron crabs are just too good with the fetches. Plus, if we HAD to cast a khalni gem, it could actually be a beneficial thing (landfall).
I need to give Grand Architect some thought here. Since we have a relatively high curve here, he seems pretty okay.
Again - I have always been afraid not MainDecking counterspells or destruction of some sort....
EDIT: Grim Discovery seems like it could be a good card if the Hedron Crab route is taken... Provides resilience for the Welder and more dredge.
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Not to sure How I feel about Forgemaster, so he's a two of. I worry about being able to meet his activated ability requirements. I could see Grand Architect being very good here.
There's synergy in this idea...
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Grindclock is great here, it helps you fill your graveyard and is a win condition once your engine comes online.
You are going to need more ways to protect myr welder till he can come online. You play him, they counter; he gets into play they use removal. You need ways to stop this.
What do the rest of you think about myr reservoir? It allows you to recur your welders and makes it easier to cast them with counter backup. It also allows you the backup win condition of myr battlesphere which might be important with memoricides running around.
Grindclock is great here, it helps you fill your graveyard and is a win condition once your engine comes online.
You are going to need more ways to protect myr welder till he can come online. You play him, they counter; he gets into play they use removal. You need ways to stop this.
What do you think about myr reservoir? It allows you to recur your welders and makes it easier to cast them with counter backup. Also it allows you the backup win condition of myr battlesphere
I actually had Myr Reservoir in my original build, I'm definitely going to test it still. I like Grim Discovery, as it can serve multiple purposes. I have actually thought About using Myr Battlesphere, with Gran Architect, you can ramp into it, then Forgemaster what ever you'd need. Myr Turbine could be good here, which is why it's in my list now.
I only need to protect the Welder for one turn. You don't play him if the combo isn't set up... So maybe Spell Pierce could cover that?
I though about Grindclock as well, it's a good choice.
I'll be testing this deck the moment it becomes Standard legal at my LGS.
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Not to sure How I feel about Forgemaster, so he's a two of. I worry about being able to meet his activated ability requirements. I could see Grand Architect being very good here.
There's synergy in this idea...
In my head I was building a Forgemaster deck with Myr welder as plan B lol Hence why my idea is a little different. I think this deck needs a plan B (or C!) with the prominence of memoricide in standard (takes care of Primeval titan? Check! Takes care of Combo Pieces? Check! Resolved against a Control Deck? Bye Win Conditions!)
Like Meyou said in his last article , a deck with more than one engine is (generally) a better deck.
Have you tested the dredge root yet? I havn't done any testing, but I'm always apprehensive of milling myself. It gives away your plan too early in a round, where your opponent would think you were playing UB control. Obviously, games 2/3 this doesn't matter, but I like to take what advantage I can get lol
I had a set of Spell pierce in my original build, but took them out due to space concerns. Obviously, I havn't tested anything yet, so my numbers are probably way off! (Much like my mana base/curve probably was).
One card I'd like to suggest is shimmer myr. I just thought that if we could play our Myr Welder at the end of their turn, when they were tapped out, then we wouldn't need to protect him. I guess this is living in Magical Christmas land a bit though
Have you done any proper testing yet? If you have, I'd love you to post your current thoughts!
In my head (ie: I have no real evidence against what I'm saying), our curve seems a bit slow, and finding all the pieces would take time. Mill would probably speed this up somewhat however...
In my head I was building a Forgemaster deck with Myr welder as plan B lol Hence why my idea is a little different. I think this deck needs a plan B (or C!) with the prominence of memoricide in standard (takes care of Primeval titan? Check! Takes care of Combo Pieces? Check! Resolved against a Control Deck? Bye Win Conditions!)
Like Meyou said in his last article , a deck with more than one engine is (generally) a better deck.
Have you tested the dredge root yet? I havn't done any testing, but I'm always apprehensive of milling myself. It gives away your plan too early in a round, where your opponent would think you were playing UB control. Obviously, games 2/3 this doesn't matter, but I like to take what advantage I can get lol
I had a set of Spell pierce in my original build, but took them out due to space concerns. Obviously, I havn't tested anything yet, so my numbers are probably way off! (Much like my mana base/curve probably was).
One card I'd like to suggest is shimmer myr. I just thought that if we could play our Myr Welder at the end of their turn, when they were tapped out, then we wouldn't need to protect him. I guess this is living in Magical Christmas land a bit though
Have you done any proper testing yet? If you have, I'd love you to post your current thoughts!
In my head (ie: I have no real evidence against what I'm saying), our curve seems a bit slow, and finding all the pieces would take time. Mill would probably speed this up somewhat however...
I'd like to get input from as many people as possible before I start seriously testing this. That being said:
Pros for the Battlesphere:
Realistically a valid target for Tezz 2.0's +1.
Cast-able with Grand Architect.
Synergistic with Myr Turbine, which is also easily cast-able with the Architect (early). Could find Myr Welder when ready, and that cannot be countered, as well as leaving mana open for counter spells.
Makes Stoic Rebuttal a hard counter.
Pros for BSC:
One-Turn clock.
If cheated into play by Forgemaster, it can be devastating.
Monstrous body that pretty much recurs.
Anyone want to add to this argument?
From this I gather that Grand Architect is a very good card for this deck. I would definitely run Myr Battlesphere over BSC for this reason.
Worst case scenario, someone counters or kills the Architect, you can follow up with Myr Welder.
This leads me to my next point: Everything in this deck needs to happen very, very quickly. Dredge seems like a realistic strategy. Sure, the opponent knows what's happening, but if you keep piling on threat after threat starting T3, they'll run out of gas eventually. As soon as they miss a beat, you have an opening to combo off. This makes this deck potentially hard to pilot, but who doesn't like a challenge?
Grand Architect is a baller. He is the base of one of this deck's engine. Good news is, if he dies, it's not really a problem.
Myr Turbine is very good here. It's a good Welder target, and still good when cast.
Myr Reservoir - something I had included in my original list, and I had cut it for something else, can't remember what. This recurs your dead Welders, battlespheres, and taps for mana.
Hedron Crab - Enables the dredge strategy. It'll skyrocket the cost for this deck (fetchlands), but makes everything very quick.
Enclave Cryptologist - Also an enabler. Can help cure those clunky draws, set up welder.
Grim Discovery - possibly one of the best "glue" for this deck that I can think of. Helps revive dead Architects, Welders, Battlespheres (if that happens), and also gets back your fetchlands.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - Seems very good. +1 digs for combo pieces, -1 makes your (potentially) casted Myr Turbines and Myr Reservoirs useful, -4 is ridiculous if you combo off Myr Welder by making a bunch of 1/1 dudes.
These are just useful arguments for cards that should be included. Anyone have anything else to add? I've basically vomited all the ideas that've been in my head since MaRo spoiled Myr Welder. It seems very viable, and pretty resilient - in the sense that you can spit out threat after threat that needs to be answered, or they just lose.
/walloftext
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Memnites are for extra ramp from Architect, Extra Draw/Discard from Riddlesmith, and things to pitch to Kuldotha.
I've thought of the Memnite idea, if you get around to testing, let me know how they work out for you. Basically free mana with the Architect.
Include fetchlands here. Makes your Hedron Crabs ridiculously good if you're taking the dredge route.
And I really don't know how good Blightsteel Colossus is going to be. I could see in this build it could be good due to the access of extra cheap artifacts with Memnite, so if you get around to testing it, and it is good, post it here!
I like Myr Battlesphere a little better, because if you get the chance to cast it, it's great for Kuldotha Forgemaster, and gives you extra dudes to make Myr Turbine work if you are forced to cast it. You can search out your Welders here, without risking it being countered
__________
So I guess I'm wondering how many of each copy of the combo we should be running for Myr Welder? 12 slots seems way too many, although it makes it more consistent. I should be testing starting this weekend, and i'm going to try running three of each combo piece. I'll test Myr Turbine, Lux Cannon, and Grindclock; and let you guys know which is the optimal choice.
Anyone else have lists?
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EDIT: Possibly Darksteel Plate for some protection? Doom Blade is basically getting replaced with Go for the Throat, so Myr Welder will be safe from that, but DoJ is still a problem. It's worth a shot ;P
EDIT: Possibly Darksteel Plate for some protection? Doom Blade is basically getting replaced with Go for the Throat, so Myr Welder will be safe from that, but DoJ is still a problem. It's worth a shot ;P
Wow! I was actually suprised at how well that was working! It's not perfect yet, but it's a pretty good start! ^^
If you're going to go the route with the Khalni-welder-soliton combo, then you want to kill your opponent outright as soon as the Welder can do anything.
You need two blue mana, Gem and Soliton in graveyard.
Now, you need to kill off your opponent asap. Making 1000 dudes isn't going to cut it. Day of Judgement? Pyroclasm?
You need to kill him then and there.
Fireball
Comet Storm
Exsanguinate
Blue Sun's Zenith
Equipe Heavy Arbalest to Welder
Anything along those lines will ensure you win as soon as you get the combo running. Not being able to kill them until the next turn is liable to kill off your combo/dudes/whatever it is you did do with the combo.
It won't matter about killing them the turn you go infinite if you have a Lux cannon in your grave. If they don't have a board, you don't have a problem.
But I do see where you're coming from. Maybe a singleton arbalest? Tutorable with Forgemaster?
[On a side note, I'm beginning to think that using Forgemaster to tutor for a collosus is actually more powerful than going infinite... Given the option, I wouldn't tutor for a combo piece, but would always try to find the collosus of doom...]
What Exactly is an activated ability?, is it an effect that triggers such maybe primeeval titan attacking and fetching 2 lands, or is it only a tap/or pay ability?
What Exactly is an activated ability?, is it an effect that triggers such maybe primeeval titan attacking and fetching 2 lands, or is it only a tap/or pay ability?
Activated Ability is any time your card says to either tap, or pay a certain ammount, in response the card does something.
How do you Like the forgemasters in this deck? I'm not sure how I feel about them.
Going to do some testing tonight, but Lux Cannon IS the only surefire way to combo off against any deck game 1. Maybe the sideboard can offer us another option.
What combo pieces are you using Devonnn? Still MD Blightsteel Colossus?
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How do you Like the forgemasters in this deck? I'm not sure how I feel about them.
Going to do some testing tonight, but Lux Cannon IS the only surefire way to combo off against any deck game 1. Maybe the sideboard can offer us another option.
What combo pieces are you using Devonnn? Still MD Blightsteel Colossus?
I have Lux Cannon and Myr Turbine MD and whichever one goes off first does the job for me. I was thinking about going like, -1 Hedron Crab +1 Molten-Tail Masticore. It easily goes to the graveyard by not discarding a card, and being that you have infinite mana, you in turn have infinite burn. And since you basically mill yourself, you'll have at least 5 creatures in your graveyard. Simply just another win condition. I may drop one Tezz for a Masticore being that Tezz isn't really that important in winning.
I also run 1 Blightsteel MD. It's what I tutor up with Kuldotha basically. I only run 2. No point in tutoring up an infinite combo piece when you can just win with that.
Riddlesmith is amazing in this deck as well. Works very well with Memnites to draw pieces you need and putting them in the graveyard.
This deck needs more than one way to win, sure, but the thing that it needs most is a plan of defense. The combo isn't resilient enough, small enough or fast enough to go all-in on it. Perilous Myr is a great card for this, and it adds value to Myr Resevoirs if they're played. Of course, a singleton Myrball is probably worth including after that.
I don't think that Khalni Gem is a good card here at all. It's not needed to win, Myr Welder with Soliton and something like Myr Turbine is enough to all but ensure a win. As is common knowledge, combos with less pieces are much more reliable.
I've got pipe dreams of Treasure Mage fetching either Myrball or Mindslaver and winning through a Mindslaver lock with Reservoir and Welder (yes, that's a hell of a lot of mana) or simply Myrball + Reservoir. But that's hardly sensible.
EDIT: Masticore seems great in a traditional one of these decks, as just being a 4/4 with the ability to shoot is likely to be key before the combo comes together.
Kuldotha Forgemaster seems perfect in this deck considering it:
-tutors for combo pieces
-gets your combo pieces into the graveyard
-can be exiled with Myr Welder if sent to the graveyard
I also think a wincon that instantly wins you the game should be used over something like Myr Turbine. Grindclock was a good suggestion since it also helps you set up your combo, but it won't work against GW Trap decks or anything with Eldrazi/Blightsteel Colossus. So... Decimator Web?
This deck needs more than one way to win, sure, but the thing that it needs most is a plan of defense. The combo isn't resilient enough, small enough or fast enough to go all-in on it. Perilous Myr is a great card for this, and it adds value to Myr Resevoirs if they're played. Of course, a singleton Myrball is probably worth including after that.
I don't think that Khalni Gem is a good card here at all. It's not needed to win, Myr Welder with Soliton and something like Myr Turbine is enough to all but ensure a win. As is common knowledge, combos with less pieces are much more reliable.
I've got pipe dreams of Treasure Mage fetching either Myrball or Mindslaver and winning through a Mindslaver lock with Reservoir and Welder (yes, that's a hell of a lot of mana) or simply Myrball + Reservoir. But that's hardly sensible.
EDIT: Masticore seems great in a traditional one of these decks, as just being a 4/4 with the ability to shoot is likely to be key before the combo comes together.
Sure, Khalni Gem isn't really needed for the Turbine combo, but what about the Lux Cannon combo? It is needed. How about a Blightsteel in your hand, with Khalni Gem you have enough mana to cast it. If someone runs fireballs, it's a BAM WIN card. Khalni Gem is a good card in this deck. You also mill yourself so even if you have to cast a Khalni gem you have two more lands to play.
Also, I don't see how the Mindslaver lock works. When the Myr dies, I don't think he still have the Mindslaver Imprinted when he comes back.
Sure, Khalni Gem isn't really needed for the Turbine combo, but what about the Lux Cannon combo? It is needed. How about a Blightsteel in your hand, with Khalni Gem you have enough mana to cast it. If someone runs fireballs, it's a BAM WIN card. Khalni Gem is a good card in this deck. You also mill yourself so even if you have to cast a Khalni gem you have two more lands to play.
Also, I don't see how the Mindslaver lock works. When the Myr dies, I don't think he still have the Mindslaver Imprinted when he comes back.
I agree. I tested Mindslaver, and it was never enough. It's just a "Win more" card, which isn't needed.
Tested last night against UB Control and a janky Mass Polymorph deck (which was more LD than anything).
UB is a really difficult matchup, in the sense that you need to play very carefully. Every time I landed Grand Architect T3, I won. Sure, it died 70% of the time, but if you don't give them a chance to reload, or you bait a JTMS properly, you can run this matchup over. Post board is a problem, I played a version with SB Memoricide, which is brutal. Strangely enough, he named Lux Cannon first, THEN Myr Welder, which in essence, is a good play. This makes me think I want to run a split of combo finishers, or at least some options post board. I was very happy with running a playset of Stoic Rebuttals MB, they helped very much. If my meta stays control dominant, which it will, I'll keep them MB.
The wonderful thing about Myr Welder is that he's a 1/4. This is VERY relevant in a world of Lightning Bolts. In my matchups with this LD deck, I just ran him over 4/5 matches. The one match I lost, I lost 2-1, when I got 2-for-1's every time I played Welder.
Grand Architect - is an absolute house in this deck. I never regretted drawing or playing this guy, only good things happened. There were multiple times where I dropped Myr Welder T4 with this guy after tapping a Hedron Crab and/or Enclave Cryptologist, and still had mana open for a counterspell. Or at least to feign that I did (which is powerful).
Re: Blightsteel Colossus
Very good, but we exist in a world where Act of Treason effects are actually kind of prominent (vamps, even Boros? Maybe it's just the fish I play with). This makes me weary of running this guy... I really like Myr Battlesphere, he combos well with the Turbine, and he can just win on his own really. He actually is a built in Fireball when you have enough Myr running around.
Re: Fireball effects: I have a problem with the consistency of this. I do not think running a playset, even three is beneficial. So what happens when you have infinite mana and no kill card? It's much easier to just blow their world up. And more fun. ;]
And yeah, I'm not comfortable running Grindclock. Seems too risky with the rampant.. ramp?
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I like Myr Welder. It's breakable. I've been thinking for days of the best way to break it. I'm thinking that a dredge feel is the way to go.
If there's a way to get three (out of four) pieces to the combo in your yard, you can combo off as soon as summoning sickness wears off.
Two ideas here:
Soliton > Khalni Gem > Lux Cannon. Decimate their board, kill them with a 1/4.
Soliton > Khalni Gem > Myr Turbine. Yep, making infinite dudes.
I think the latter is slightly more consistent.
Here's a skeleton.
4x Hedron Crab
4x Enclave Cryptologist
4x Myr Welder
3x Khalni Gem
3x Soliton
Spells:
3x Stoic Rebuttal
3x Spell Pierce
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Marsh Flats (if B splash)
Those are just the things that come to mind as good.
-I like the idea of the Myr Turbine better, because it makes Stoic Rebuttal a hard counter. And if you can do this t4, then.. you just win.
-Myr Reservoir seems good, but might be too slow.
-Archive Trap seems pretty good here, T1 Crab, T2 Fetchland, Mill 3, Crack, Mill 3, Archive Trap yourself, and BAM. 19 cards in your yard.
-It scares me to not be running some kind of destruction. I was thinking you could splash black for Duress/IoK mainboard, SB destruction. Gives you access to Memoricide as well.
I'd like to make this deck competitive. I just really like Myr Welder, and want it to be playable.
Ideas and constructive criticism is welcome.
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I was gonna add in Decimator Web as the kill condition, just to kill them 3 ways at once, but either of your kill cards seem fine.
The main concern I have with this deck is getting your Khalni gem + soliton in to your graveyard with any level of consistency. I see that you have Enclave Cryptologist for that, but I was thinking more along the lines of Riddlesmith and maybe Molten-tail masticore to drop things from your hand.
What your trying to do with Archive trap is cute, buuuut it won't work. It clearly specifies "target opponent".
Without the ability to fill our graveyard quickly, we'll need to find new ways of getting the pieces there. Soliton can be played normally, can block and die or whatever, but it's more difficult with the gem. If we play it looking to destroy it, we open ourselves up to massive card (and land) disadvantage. That's why I like riddlesmith discarding from hand... Only problem is GETTING it into your hand!
Hence, I've been thinking of Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. His +1 ability is invaluable in this deck!
On a sidenote, I was gonna throw in 4x Grand architect, 4xKuldotha forgemaster and 2xBlightsteel Collosus as an alternate combo, as the two interlink pretty well, and offers us an extremely powerful plan B.
Here's what I've been thinking:
4x Khalni Gem
4x Soliton
4x Decimator web
4x Myr Welder
Backup combo-6
4x Kuldotha Forgemaster
2x Blightsteel Collosus
4x Grand Architect
4x Riddlesmith
2x Shimmer Myr
Other Support-5
3x Tezzeret, Agent of bolas
2x Jace Beleren
4x Halimar Depths
3x Drowned Catacombs
3x Creeping Tar Pit
9x Island
1x Swamp
3x Dread Statuary
Oops. RTFC, right? -_-
Here's my problem with Riddlesmith. It just seems like the number of artifacts we'd be running is so low, and so cost intensive, that he seems like he might be a problem. You're right, the card filter is awesome, and that's the reason why he's sitting with the pile of cards I have for this brew, I just think we need to make it slightly more consistent than that. If we could run more artifacts, Mox Opal could be an option.
Agreed. I thought about it for a while and liked him here. He works really well with the Myr Welder comboing into infinite dudes (see -4 ability :D)
I've thought of this as well. It's a very good strategy, but I might cut the Forgemaster count down to three.
What if we ran Riddlesmith and Hedron Crabs? Hedron crabs are just too good with the fetches. Plus, if we HAD to cast a khalni gem, it could actually be a beneficial thing (landfall).
I need to give Grand Architect some thought here. Since we have a relatively high curve here, he seems pretty okay.
Again - I have always been afraid not MainDecking counterspells or destruction of some sort....
EDIT: Grim Discovery seems like it could be a good card if the Hedron Crab route is taken... Provides resilience for the Welder and more dredge.
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4x Myr Welder
3x Soliton
4x Hedron Crab
4x Enclave Cryptologist
2x Grand Architect
2x Kuldotha Forgemaster
1x Blightsteel Colossus
3x Khalni Gem
3x Myr Turbine
Spells:
4x Stoic Rebuttal/Spell Pierce
3x Grim Discovery
Planeswalkers:
3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Land:
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding tarn
2x Darkslick Shores
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Swamp
8x Island
Not to sure How I feel about Forgemaster, so he's a two of. I worry about being able to meet his activated ability requirements. I could see Grand Architect being very good here.
There's synergy in this idea...
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You are going to need more ways to protect myr welder till he can come online. You play him, they counter; he gets into play they use removal. You need ways to stop this.
What do the rest of you think about myr reservoir? It allows you to recur your welders and makes it easier to cast them with counter backup. It also allows you the backup win condition of myr battlesphere which might be important with memoricides running around.
I actually had Myr Reservoir in my original build, I'm definitely going to test it still. I like Grim Discovery, as it can serve multiple purposes. I have actually thought About using Myr Battlesphere, with Gran Architect, you can ramp into it, then Forgemaster what ever you'd need. Myr Turbine could be good here, which is why it's in my list now.
I only need to protect the Welder for one turn. You don't play him if the combo isn't set up... So maybe Spell Pierce could cover that?
I though about Grindclock as well, it's a good choice.
I'll be testing this deck the moment it becomes Standard legal at my LGS.
Standard:
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Trades!
In my head I was building a Forgemaster deck with Myr welder as plan B lol Hence why my idea is a little different. I think this deck needs a plan B (or C!) with the prominence of memoricide in standard (takes care of Primeval titan? Check! Takes care of Combo Pieces? Check! Resolved against a Control Deck? Bye Win Conditions!)
Like Meyou said in his last article , a deck with more than one engine is (generally) a better deck.
Have you tested the dredge root yet? I havn't done any testing, but I'm always apprehensive of milling myself. It gives away your plan too early in a round, where your opponent would think you were playing UB control. Obviously, games 2/3 this doesn't matter, but I like to take what advantage I can get lol
I had a set of Spell pierce in my original build, but took them out due to space concerns. Obviously, I havn't tested anything yet, so my numbers are probably way off! (Much like my mana base/curve probably was).
One card I'd like to suggest is shimmer myr. I just thought that if we could play our Myr Welder at the end of their turn, when they were tapped out, then we wouldn't need to protect him. I guess this is living in Magical Christmas land a bit though
Have you done any proper testing yet? If you have, I'd love you to post your current thoughts!
In my head (ie: I have no real evidence against what I'm saying), our curve seems a bit slow, and finding all the pieces would take time. Mill would probably speed this up somewhat however...
Test your decks, avoid jerks, make friends!
I'd like to get input from as many people as possible before I start seriously testing this. That being said:
Myr Battlesphere vs Blightsteel Colossus for Kuldotha Forgemaster targets.
Pros for the Battlesphere:
Realistically a valid target for Tezz 2.0's +1.
Cast-able with Grand Architect.
Synergistic with Myr Turbine, which is also easily cast-able with the Architect (early). Could find Myr Welder when ready, and that cannot be countered, as well as leaving mana open for counter spells.
Makes Stoic Rebuttal a hard counter.
Pros for BSC:
One-Turn clock.
If cheated into play by Forgemaster, it can be devastating.
Monstrous body that pretty much recurs.
Anyone want to add to this argument?
From this I gather that Grand Architect is a very good card for this deck. I would definitely run Myr Battlesphere over BSC for this reason.
Worst case scenario, someone counters or kills the Architect, you can follow up with Myr Welder.
This leads me to my next point: Everything in this deck needs to happen very, very quickly. Dredge seems like a realistic strategy. Sure, the opponent knows what's happening, but if you keep piling on threat after threat starting T3, they'll run out of gas eventually. As soon as they miss a beat, you have an opening to combo off. This makes this deck potentially hard to pilot, but who doesn't like a challenge?
Grand Architect is a baller. He is the base of one of this deck's engine. Good news is, if he dies, it's not really a problem.
Myr Turbine is very good here. It's a good Welder target, and still good when cast.
Myr Reservoir - something I had included in my original list, and I had cut it for something else, can't remember what. This recurs your dead Welders, battlespheres, and taps for mana.
Hedron Crab - Enables the dredge strategy. It'll skyrocket the cost for this deck (fetchlands), but makes everything very quick.
Enclave Cryptologist - Also an enabler. Can help cure those clunky draws, set up welder.
Grim Discovery - possibly one of the best "glue" for this deck that I can think of. Helps revive dead Architects, Welders, Battlespheres (if that happens), and also gets back your fetchlands.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - Seems very good. +1 digs for combo pieces, -1 makes your (potentially) casted Myr Turbines and Myr Reservoirs useful, -4 is ridiculous if you combo off Myr Welder by making a bunch of 1/1 dudes.
These are just useful arguments for cards that should be included. Anyone have anything else to add? I've basically vomited all the ideas that've been in my head since MaRo spoiled Myr Welder. It seems very viable, and pretty resilient - in the sense that you can spit out threat after threat that needs to be answered, or they just lose.
/walloftext
Standard:
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4x Grand Architect
4x Riddlesmith
4x Memnite
4x Soliton
2x Kuldotha Forgemaster
1x Blightsteel Collosus
4x Myr Welder
4x Hedron Crab
4x Khalni Gem
2x Lux Cannon
1x Myr Turbine
Planeswalker - 3
3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Land - 23
4x Drowned Catacomb
3x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Darkslick Shores
10x Island
4x Swamp
Memnites are for extra ramp from Architect, Extra Draw/Discard from Riddlesmith, and things to pitch to Kuldotha.
Test your decks, avoid jerks, make friends!
I've thought of the Memnite idea, if you get around to testing, let me know how they work out for you. Basically free mana with the Architect.
Include fetchlands here. Makes your Hedron Crabs ridiculously good if you're taking the dredge route.
And I really don't know how good Blightsteel Colossus is going to be. I could see in this build it could be good due to the access of extra cheap artifacts with Memnite, so if you get around to testing it, and it is good, post it here!
I like Myr Battlesphere a little better, because if you get the chance to cast it, it's great for Kuldotha Forgemaster, and gives you extra dudes to make Myr Turbine work if you are forced to cast it. You can search out your Welders here, without risking it being countered
__________
So I guess I'm wondering how many of each copy of the combo we should be running for Myr Welder? 12 slots seems way too many, although it makes it more consistent. I should be testing starting this weekend, and i'm going to try running three of each combo piece. I'll test Myr Turbine, Lux Cannon, and Grindclock; and let you guys know which is the optimal choice.
Anyone else have lists?
Standard:
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EDIT: Possibly Darksteel Plate for some protection? Doom Blade is basically getting replaced with Go for the Throat, so Myr Welder will be safe from that, but DoJ is still a problem. It's worth a shot ;P
Test your decks, avoid jerks, make friends!
Wow! I was actually suprised at how well that was working! It's not perfect yet, but it's a pretty good start! ^^
You need two blue mana, Gem and Soliton in graveyard.
Exile Soliton, untap, exile gem, untap-Infinite Mana.
Now, you need to kill off your opponent asap. Making 1000 dudes isn't going to cut it. Day of Judgement? Pyroclasm?
You need to kill him then and there.
Fireball
Comet Storm
Exsanguinate
Blue Sun's Zenith
Equipe Heavy Arbalest to Welder
Anything along those lines will ensure you win as soon as you get the combo running. Not being able to kill them until the next turn is liable to kill off your combo/dudes/whatever it is you did do with the combo.
But I do see where you're coming from. Maybe a singleton arbalest? Tutorable with Forgemaster?
[On a side note, I'm beginning to think that using Forgemaster to tutor for a collosus is actually more powerful than going infinite... Given the option, I wouldn't tutor for a combo piece, but would always try to find the collosus of doom...]
Test your decks, avoid jerks, make friends!
Activated Ability is any time your card says to either tap, or pay a certain ammount, in response the card does something.
How do you Like the forgemasters in this deck? I'm not sure how I feel about them.
Going to do some testing tonight, but Lux Cannon IS the only surefire way to combo off against any deck game 1. Maybe the sideboard can offer us another option.
What combo pieces are you using Devonnn? Still MD Blightsteel Colossus?
Standard:
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You can look at and playtest me deck here, http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/myr-welder-combo/
I have Lux Cannon and Myr Turbine MD and whichever one goes off first does the job for me. I was thinking about going like, -1 Hedron Crab +1 Molten-Tail Masticore. It easily goes to the graveyard by not discarding a card, and being that you have infinite mana, you in turn have infinite burn. And since you basically mill yourself, you'll have at least 5 creatures in your graveyard. Simply just another win condition. I may drop one Tezz for a Masticore being that Tezz isn't really that important in winning.
I also run 1 Blightsteel MD. It's what I tutor up with Kuldotha basically. I only run 2. No point in tutoring up an infinite combo piece when you can just win with that.
Riddlesmith is amazing in this deck as well. Works very well with Memnites to draw pieces you need and putting them in the graveyard.
Test your decks, avoid jerks, make friends!
I don't think that Khalni Gem is a good card here at all. It's not needed to win, Myr Welder with Soliton and something like Myr Turbine is enough to all but ensure a win. As is common knowledge, combos with less pieces are much more reliable.
I've got pipe dreams of Treasure Mage fetching either Myrball or Mindslaver and winning through a Mindslaver lock with Reservoir and Welder (yes, that's a hell of a lot of mana) or simply Myrball + Reservoir. But that's hardly sensible.
EDIT: Masticore seems great in a traditional one of these decks, as just being a 4/4 with the ability to shoot is likely to be key before the combo comes together.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
-tutors for combo pieces
-gets your combo pieces into the graveyard
-can be exiled with Myr Welder if sent to the graveyard
I also think a wincon that instantly wins you the game should be used over something like Myr Turbine. Grindclock was a good suggestion since it also helps you set up your combo, but it won't work against GW Trap decks or anything with Eldrazi/Blightsteel Colossus. So... Decimator Web?
Sure, Khalni Gem isn't really needed for the Turbine combo, but what about the Lux Cannon combo? It is needed. How about a Blightsteel in your hand, with Khalni Gem you have enough mana to cast it. If someone runs fireballs, it's a BAM WIN card. Khalni Gem is a good card in this deck. You also mill yourself so even if you have to cast a Khalni gem you have two more lands to play.
Also, I don't see how the Mindslaver lock works. When the Myr dies, I don't think he still have the Mindslaver Imprinted when he comes back.
Test your decks, avoid jerks, make friends!
I agree. I tested Mindslaver, and it was never enough. It's just a "Win more" card, which isn't needed.
Tested last night against UB Control and a janky Mass Polymorph deck (which was more LD than anything).
UB is a really difficult matchup, in the sense that you need to play very carefully. Every time I landed Grand Architect T3, I won. Sure, it died 70% of the time, but if you don't give them a chance to reload, or you bait a JTMS properly, you can run this matchup over. Post board is a problem, I played a version with SB Memoricide, which is brutal. Strangely enough, he named Lux Cannon first, THEN Myr Welder, which in essence, is a good play. This makes me think I want to run a split of combo finishers, or at least some options post board. I was very happy with running a playset of Stoic Rebuttals MB, they helped very much. If my meta stays control dominant, which it will, I'll keep them MB.
The wonderful thing about Myr Welder is that he's a 1/4. This is VERY relevant in a world of Lightning Bolts. In my matchups with this LD deck, I just ran him over 4/5 matches. The one match I lost, I lost 2-1, when I got 2-for-1's every time I played Welder.
Grand Architect - is an absolute house in this deck. I never regretted drawing or playing this guy, only good things happened. There were multiple times where I dropped Myr Welder T4 with this guy after tapping a Hedron Crab and/or Enclave Cryptologist, and still had mana open for a counterspell. Or at least to feign that I did (which is powerful).
Re: Blightsteel Colossus
Very good, but we exist in a world where Act of Treason effects are actually kind of prominent (vamps, even Boros? Maybe it's just the fish I play with). This makes me weary of running this guy... I really like Myr Battlesphere, he combos well with the Turbine, and he can just win on his own really. He actually is a built in Fireball when you have enough Myr running around.
Re: Fireball effects: I have a problem with the consistency of this. I do not think running a playset, even three is beneficial. So what happens when you have infinite mana and no kill card? It's much easier to just blow their world up. And more fun. ;]
And yeah, I'm not comfortable running Grindclock. Seems too risky with the rampant.. ramp?
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Memnite v Ornithopter
Memnite can trade with X/1s... which isn't much of the meta right now.
Orinthopter can stall 1/xs with evasion, and if you land a Tezz, becomes a 5/5 with evasion...
Any other thoughts?