Deprive is an amazing card, especially with the crab synergy, also works well with a hard casted Khalni Gem if needs be, the fact that you get to bounce a land for your crab no matter what is awe inspiring.
Leyline of Anticipation is worlds ahead of Shimmer Myr, especially when its' free, stays out til your opponents 4th turn, and you flash in the Myr Welder, this is definitely a "you win again!" card.
Halimar Depths first turn makes it so I can keep zero Myr Welder hands, without having to put things like Preordain in the deck, that and with Hedron Crab I mill, then lace, putting usually fuel for whatever engine I need, or lets me dig 6 cards down for the Myr Welder.
I've found that Kuldotha Forgemaster doesn't fit in here, it's way too clunky and feels like an Obi Wan Kenobi (your only hope) when you cast it, or use it with Myr Welder from the yard, this isn't Shape Anew, which honestly I think is the only deck Blightsteel Collossus belongs in right now. (plus you can't really protect the darn thing once you get it out!)
I've been watching this thread very closely. I love the idea and think the combo is brilliant. I've read all 12 pages and am working on my own version right now.
If you use Jace's second ability with Erasure, you can draw three cards, put the two that you want in the graveyard on top of the library, and then opt to put them in the graveyard with Erasure. I wasn't sure of this at first, but after reading the ruling on Brainstorm, which is Jace's second ability, it works since it's all one effect. Even better, Erasure would trigger 3 times, meaning that you can opt to have it only fire once if you need the next card, fire on both, or none if you'll need the cards in the next turn.
What's more, Jace gives this deck something is desperately needs: control. You can make sure your opponent doesn't get the card he wants, bounce his creatures, or blow away the library for an alternate win condition.
Additionally, you can use Erasure with PreordainorForesee and put cards in the graveyard that you absolutely want in the graveyard.
For what it's worth, while it's not the first card I'd pick, Horrifying Revelation could be very power after a Preordain that resulted in a card in your hand and on top of your library that you wanted in the graveyard.
In all honesty, I really don't think milling yourself is the answer here. In pure dredge it's different because everything plays off of the graveyard. What happens if you Tome Scour or fetch land Hedron Crab yourself and watch all of your Myr Welders go into the graveyard? With milling in this deck, if you mill wrong, you screw yourself, badly.
Leyline of Anticipation is worlds ahead of Shimmer Myr, especially when its' free, stays out til your opponents 4th turn, and you flash in the Myr Welder, this is definitely a "you win again!" card.
I strongly disagree. Leyline is a great card if you get it in the opening hand, a decent card later on, and a totally dead card if you already have it on the field. The Myr is, at worst, something you could sacrifice to Forgemaster.
I'm not a big fan of the Leyline, either. Also, with 6 mana, during their end step, I can flash out a Shimmer Myr and immediately follow it up with a Welder, which would be much more unexpected since they didn't know I would have flash.
Don't think I like Deprive either. Sure the extra landfall could be nice, but I don't want that taking a spot in the deck because I don't know if I'm going to run counters MB, and sometimes having a land in your hand is just annoying if you already have more. Maybe though, maybe in the SB.
Halimar is interesting... I had considered it before, but I don't think it combos with the Crab much. It can help us get what we need faster and protect us from milling our Welders.
And in your deck, I don't think the Forgemaster is good either. You don't have many good options to forge for with it. In some decks, I think it might work really well.
Jace's Erasure does combo very well in those situations. If anything, seems like it might be better than the Riddlesmith when comboed with Preodrain/Jace/Foresee. I'm not going to be running any Mind Sculptors, but I think this card may be very solid indeed. It might be a little slow, but with set up like that, we'll be hopefully discarding what we need, and don't risk milling things we want in our hand as much as with Hedron Crab.
IIW for any CCC (pick the highest one in the list):
A high-costed equipment (I want it big, but make sure it isn't nutso-broken with Stoneforge. So a high equip cost or a benefit for casting or something)
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
Just started playtesting a prototype and had what I thought might be a crap first hand that turned into something decent.
I had 6 lands and a Masticore, but two of the lands were Halimar Depths. Played one, saw the top three were Jace's Erasure, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, and Soliton. Turn two, drew the Erasure and played it, turn three drew Tezzeret and got Soliton in the graveyard.
Dropped the second Halimar Depths, saw Soliton, Lux Cannon and Blightsteel Colossus. Made it so that I could now dump the Cannon into the graveyard on the next turn.
Not a great early hand, but it was cool to see Soliton and Lux Cannon get dumped that fast.
So far, my thought is that the mana curve is too high. The only 1 drop is the Enclave Cryptologist, and while he's very good, there should probably be room in here for something else. Halimar Depths seem to be helping, especially if you can use the Erasure on the next turn.
I've only had the Jace/Erasure combo work out for me a couple of times when I was playtesting. When it does, it's very effective, but other times I find myself wishing I had a better spell in my hand.
It's a tricky balance. When I have Myr Sculptor in my hand, I practically want to have Traumatize in my deck. When I don't, I'm waiting to grab him.
Tezzeret helps a lot as well since he can either get the card you want or send the top five to the bottom to have a better shot at something good.
All in all, it seems like this deck is close to being a dark horse. It has the potential to hit very hard and unexpectedly if you can Zenith them into oblivion, or Lux Cannon the battlefield.
I'm very curious to see if "Action" produces the missing link to this one.
No, I think Fauna Shaman sounds really nice here. I like that she can discard creatures for us which is nice, and tutor whatever creature we want, that's a good 2-drop I think. I don't plan on running them since I don't own them. I think you should keep at least working with them. I think she's got potential, seems makes the deck more consistent which is something we are struggling to find.
This is what I'm currently looking at. Haven't played with this specific build yet, will soon enough.
It should be noted that the Forgemaster can also be a grave-filler.
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IIW for any CCC (pick the highest one in the list):
A high-costed equipment (I want it big, but make sure it isn't nutso-broken with Stoneforge. So a high equip cost or a benefit for casting or something)
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
I like this deck and am going to put it together to test it because in the pre realease i pulled a myr welder and did some pretty funny things with it. One game the game went on forever and the the played the tower of calamaties (i think thats how u spell it) on my turn i drew my welder and was able to play the welder and then destroy the tower next turn i was able to draw into my 8th land and got the awkward tower online with myr welder and won off that. Another game i was able to get a infect artifact on the welder. It was the myr that taps for mana but has infect. Then i dropped an inkmoth nexus and a signal pest and won of infect even though i was in mirrian and had no other infect cards of then the inkmoth nexus. After these games i fell in love with myr welder, and i just noticed this deck today. soo ill put it together and post my list.
I like this deck and am going to put it together to test it because in the pre realease i pulled a myr welder and did some pretty funny things with it. One game the game went on forever and the the played the tower of calamaties (i think thats how u spell it) on my turn i drew my welder and was able to play the welder and then destroy the tower next turn i was able to draw into my 8th land and got the awkward tower online with myr welder and won off that. Another game i was able to get a infect artifact on the welder. It was the myr that taps for mana but has infect. Then i dropped an inkmoth nexus and a signal pest and won of infect even though i was in mirrian and had no other infect cards of then the inkmoth nexus. After these games i fell in love with myr welder, and i just noticed this deck today. soo ill put it together and post my list.
You realize that Myr Welder only copies activated abilities, correct? So imprinting a Plague Myr will not give it infect, it will give it the ability to tap for one colorless mana.
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IIW for any CCC (pick the highest one in the list):
A high-costed equipment (I want it big, but make sure it isn't nutso-broken with Stoneforge. So a high equip cost or a benefit for casting or something)
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
So God willing, I'll be going to FNM tonight to test this deck out. Ive decided to just throw everything I'm interested in testing together And seeing what I do and do not like. Running Faina Shamans, Crabs, Masticores, Oozes. Although, the oozes could be Grim Discovery I think, I do like the ability of having the Ooze copy a Shaman in the yard or a Masticore. I was even considering a singleton Sphinx of Magosi, but that's being cute. In a game against some homebrew, I had infinite mana with no kill. But I did have an Ooze without summoning sickness, and a creature in hand (shaman in GY, game ran long). So I was able to infinite 'survival'.. Get another soliton in the yard for this, and then played out 3 Sphinx of Lost Truth to find both a Lux Cannon and a USZ. DERP
I decided to run Birds of Paradise. With the incredible amount of burn in my meta, there are sure to be players to burn it up, saving the Welder for at least a win. If they don't deal with it, it pretty much spells T4-5 death. I'm already in green for the Shaman so eh... Make use of my Misty Rainforests.
Went to FNM last night, and went 2-1 with the deck, I decided to leave, so I didn't finish the whole tournament. Here's a report.
Round 1: BR Vamps
This was incredibly disappointing. My deck rolled over and died. Saw three Welders both games and then one Fauna Shaman game two. The rest was a mana flood. Happens I guess?
0-2
Round 2: BG Ramp (G Titan, P Titan, Cobras, Ob nixilis)
Game 1- I'm on the play and see opening hand of Two Crabs, Welder, Verdant Catacombs, Misty Rainforest, Fauna Shaman, Khalni Gem. I play a crab, he plays a land, passes. I play and crack a fetch, play a fauna shaman. He plays T2 Lotus Cobra. I spike a land, and play T3 Welder. Apparently, he doesn't seem to notice the shenanigans going on in my GY, but I did have two Masticores, Khalni Gem. He plays a bunch of Explores and Cultivates off his Cobra. T4 I drop a Soliton that I drew earlier into my GY with the shaman, and then combo off on him. I had six creatures in my GY after milling myself so hard, two of which were Masticores. I went Soliton-Khalni Gem-Masticore, kill you. He called a judge because he didn't believe what was going on. Lulz.
Game 2 - He says prior he has boarded in fourteen removal spells, and tells me good luck. At this point, I haven't seen any removal spells so I didn't pay much attention to it.
He T1 land, I turn one land no play. My opening hand was land, land, sphere of the suns, fauna shaman, necrotic ooze, molten tail Masticore, Lux Cannon. Mediocre on the play, on the draw sure. And if he did board in a lot of removal, then this is good. T2 he plays a land, passes. I figured he had removal, so I actually threw out T2 Shaman. EOT it was smothered. T3 he plays a land, passes. T3 I spiked a Welder, but elected for Sphere of the Suns. T4 he plays Memoricide naming Molten-tail Masticore. Weird. So he glances at my hand, and smirks. T4 I draw Soliton, I play Necrotic Ooze. He sinks in his chair a bit. He plays T5 lotus Cobra and explores a bunch of times. T5 I shaman the soliton to the GY with the ooze, and get a welder. I Untap the Ooze with Solitons ability, play out the welder. T6 he plays Ob Nixilis the Fallen, land, explores, plays verdant catacombs, then cultivates. I'm at 8. EoT I exile Soliton with Welder. T6 I drew a Khalni Gem, kind of lucky there. Sitting on 6 mana, a Sphere of the Suns with one counter, I shaman a Hedron Crab to my GY with the ooze for Sphinx of Lost Truths. Cast it and discard the opening Lux Cannon and Khalni Gem to GY. with one U mana up, I exile the Khalni gem with the welder, and combo off on him.
2-0, 1-1.
Round 3: CawBlade.
Game 1: I got a major god draw, and he got stuck on two mana. I went T1 BoP, T2 Welder, T3 Hedron Crab, Hedron Crab, with an uncracked fetch. Crack the fetch, milling 6, and wouldn't you know, Soliton-Khalni Gem-Lux Cannon for the kill. Can't believe it actually happened.
Game 2: On the draw. He T1 preordains. T1 BoP for me. He T2 stoneforges for SoFaF. I land turn 2 shaman. T3 he stoneforges his sword out, U mana up. T3 I play out welder. I fully expected DoJ here, so I baited him, and he took it. I had Masticore, ooze, welder, Khalni gem, spell pierce. I turn around with a T4 Welder, U up for spell pierce. T5 he doesn't play a land, and casts Jace, which I spell pierce. T5 I draw Soliton. I play out Necrotic Ooze. T6 he plays squadron hawk, passes, missing another land drop. T6 I draw USZ, pass. I wanted to represent counterspells here, which he admittedly tells me he held back because he was afraid to run another jace into another counter spell. Instead he plays out Gideon T7, which I just don't understand, but he's moderately screwed either way at this point. He passes, I EoT shaman with ooze soliton into the GY, getting Sphinx of Lost Truths. T7 I play the Sphinx, discarding Khalni Gem, land, land, and have two U mana up. I combo of with welder and kill him with USZ.
2-0, 2-1.
Went to FNM last night, and went 2-1 with the deck, I decided to leave, so I didn't finish the whole tournament. Here's a report.
Round 1: BR Vamps
This was incredibly disappointing. My deck rolled over and died. Saw three Welders both games and then one Fauna Shaman game two. The rest was a mana flood. Happens I guess?
0-2
Round 2: BG Ramp (G Titan, P Titan, Cobras, Ob nixilis)
Game 1- I'm on the play and see opening hand of Two Crabs, Welder, Verdant Catacombs, Misty Rainforest, Fauna Shaman, Khalni Gem. I play a crab, he plays a land, passes. I play and crack a fetch, play a fauna shaman. He plays T2 Lotus Cobra. I spike a land, and play T3 Welder. Apparently, he doesn't seem to notice the shenanigans going on in my GY, but I did have two Masticores, Khalni Gem. He plays a bunch of Explores and Cultivates off his Cobra. T4 I drop a Soliton that I drew earlier into my GY with the shaman, and then combo off on him. I had six creatures in my GY after milling myself so hard, two of which were Masticores. I went Soliton-Khalni Gem-Masticore, kill you. He called a judge because he didn't believe what was going on. Lulz.
Game 2 - He says prior he has boarded in fourteen removal spells, and tells me good luck. At this point, I haven't seen any removal spells so I didn't pay much attention to it.
He T1 land, I turn one land no play. My opening hand was land, land, sphere of the suns, fauna shaman, necrotic ooze, molten tail Masticore, Lux Cannon. Mediocre on the play, on the draw sure. And if he did board in a lot of removal, then this is good. T2 he plays a land, passes. I figured he had removal, so I actually threw out T2 Shaman. EOT it was smothered. T3 he plays a land, passes. T3 I spiked a Welder, but elected for Sphere of the Suns. T4 he plays Memoricide naming Molten-tail Masticore. Weird. So he glances at my hand, and smirks. T4 I draw Soliton, I play Necrotic Ooze. He sinks in his chair a bit. He plays T5 lotus Cobra and explores a bunch of times. T5 I shaman the soliton to the GY with the ooze, and get a welder. I Untap the Ooze with Solitons ability, play out the welder. T6 he plays Ob Nixilis the Fallen, land, explores, plays verdant catacombs, then cultivates. I'm at 8. EoT I exile Soliton with Welder. T6 I drew a Khalni Gem, kind of lucky there. Sitting on 6 mana, a Sphere of the Suns with one counter, I shaman a Hedron Crab to my GY with the ooze for Sphinx of Lost Truths. Cast it and discard the opening Lux Cannon and Khalni Gem to GY. with one U mana up, I exile the Khalni gem with the welder, and combo off on him.
2-0, 1-1.
Round 3: CawBlade.
Game 1: I got a major god draw, and he got stuck on two mana. I went T1 BoP, T2 Welder, T3 Hedron Crab, Hedron Crab, with an uncracked fetch. Crack the fetch, milling 6, and wouldn't you know, Soliton-Khalni Gem-Lux Cannon for the kill. Can't believe it actually happened.
Game 2: On the draw. He T1 preordains. T1 BoP for me. He T2 stoneforges for SoFaF. I land turn 2 shaman. T3 he stoneforges his sword out, U mana up. T3 I play out welder. I fully expected DoJ here, so I baited him, and he took it. I had Masticore, ooze, welder, Khalni gem, spell pierce. I turn around with a T4 Welder, U up for spell pierce. T5 he doesn't play a land, and casts Jace, which I spell pierce. T5 I draw Soliton. I play out Necrotic Ooze. T6 he plays squadron hawk, passes, missing another land drop. T6 I draw USZ, pass. I wanted to represent counterspells here, which he admittedly tells me he held back because he was afraid to run another jace into another counter spell. Instead he plays out Gideon T7, which I just don't understand, but he's moderately screwed either way at this point. He passes, I EoT shaman with ooze soliton into the GY, getting Sphinx of Lost Truths. T7 I play the Sphinx, discarding Khalni Gem, land, land, and have two U mana up. I combo of with welder and kill him with USZ.
2-0, 2-1.
T5 lotus Cobra and explores a bunch of times. T5 I shaman the soliton to the GY with the ooze, and get a welder. I Untap the Ooze with Solitons ability, play out the welder. T6 he plays Ob Nixilis the Fallen, land, explores, plays verdant catacombs, then cultivates. I'm at 8. EoT I exile Soliton with Welder
Am I missing something, but doesn't Welder have summoning sickness?
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IIW for any CCC (pick the highest one in the list):
A high-costed equipment (I want it big, but make sure it isn't nutso-broken with Stoneforge. So a high equip cost or a benefit for casting or something)
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
Am I missing something, but doesn't Welder have summoning sickness?
Yup you're right he did. I tried to do all this from memory, but apparently I missed a step somewhere in there... Not sure what happened, but I remember he just ramped a bunch and I got lucky and killed him.
Sorry I haven't posted a list yet, been busy with work.
Like I posts before, I kinda just took everything I wanted to try and threw it together. I liked the birds, they helped. The Masticores were ridiculously good. I was always happy to have one either in my hand, in play, or in GY. Sphere of the Suns was nice for mana fixing, as three colors is kind of brutal. The Oozes were awesome all night. But in reality, with out Myr welder, they just shaman mostly. Makes me want to run Steel Overseer and maybe Triskelion next week, and base the deck over more heavy artifact creatures. I wish we could find an infinite mana combo that is enabled with the ooze, that's not incredibly difficult to obtain.
The shamans help out this deck so much. I played a few more decks for fun and found that people generally run out of kill spells by the time welde comes out, after killing birds and shaman, even Hedron crabs. I like the idea of keeping a low curve.
That's about it though... Hope this helps. Feedback appreciated. And sorry if the report is a little shaky, I'll try not to do it from memory next week.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
No worries on the report, its really nice! Nobody else is really posting any test results or new ideas.. Personally, I am waiting on a few cards I ordered before I can really get to work testing.
The Birds and Fauna Shaman did a lot for you in those games. But I don't know if I'm sold on the Ooze... While it also helped a lot, it was usually just a Fauna Shaman. I feel like Grim Discovery could do that job better. Firstly, Grim Discovery at worst could get the Fauna Shaman back to your hand, which could then go on the field, for the same price as playing an Ooze. But at the same time, Grim Discovery will almost always be able to return us a popped fetch land (or just a milled basic land or something) to our hands to play again. Something to think about, and it makes the need for black mana lower, since its only 1B.
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IIW for any CCC (pick the highest one in the list):
A high-costed equipment (I want it big, but make sure it isn't nutso-broken with Stoneforge. So a high equip cost or a benefit for casting or something)
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
No worries on the report, its really nice! Nobody else is really posting any test results or new ideas.. Personally, I am waiting on a few cards I ordered before I can really get to work testing.
The Birds and Fauna Shaman did a lot for you in those games. But I don't know if I'm sold on the Ooze... While it also helped a lot, it was usually just a Fauna Shaman. I feel like Grim Discovery could do that job better. Firstly, Grim Discovery at worst could get the Fauna Shaman back to your hand, which could then go on the field, for the same price as playing an Ooze. But at the same time, Grim Discovery will almost always be able to return us a popped fetch land (or just a milled basic land or something) to our hands to play again. Something to think about, and it makes the need for black mana lower, since its only 1B.
I agree completely about Grim Discovery, I had stated in an earlier post that I that the Oozes could be taken out for it. The Ooze is an awesome body as well, but really, I think we'd have to totally rethink the combo for it to work, and that directly takes away from the main synergy of the deck.
I do feel like the deck is really still inconsistent. If you don't land a Shaman or welder or crab, it kinda rolls over... I was going to look into other shaman lists to see if they had anything to offer.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
This may be just a cute idea but im keeping the oozes and running a single Gigantomancer as an alt win con that is not reliant on the welder. Im testing it tomorrow and will say more when I know more
This may be just a cute idea but im keeping the oozes and running a single Gigantomancer as an alt win con that is not reliant on the welder. Im testing it tomorrow and will say more when I know more
I had been considering that, too. I haven't been able to test because of work and I'm missing some uncommons (yeah, uncommons.) It seems like it could be viable. Plus, no one expects a 7/7 Hedron Crab.
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On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Here's my version of this, based on atrius89's last list. I've tested a few games with it and it's been pretty consistent considering the nature of the deck. The black splash for Grim Discovery is very good and Fauna Shaman is amazing. The sideboard is completely theoretical since everyone I play against on MWS tends to quit after the first game when I either blow up all their permanents with Lux Cannon or shoot them 5 times with Molten-Tail Masticore. If I were to change anything it would probably be to take out the Birds of Paradise and/or Preordain for some main deck Spell Pierce. Give it a shot it's a lot of fun to play. Advice/suggestions would also be very helpful, especially for the sideboard.
Here's my version of this, based on atrius89's last list. I've tested a few games with it and it's been pretty consistent considering the nature of the deck. The black splash for Grim Discovery is very good and Fauna Shaman is amazing. The sideboard is completely theoretical since everyone I play against on MWS tends to quit after the first game when I either blow up all their permanents with Lux Cannon or shoot them 5 times with Molten-Tail Masticore. If I were to change anything it would probably be to take out the Birds of Paradise and/or Preordain for some main deck Spell Pierce. Give it a shot it's a lot of fun to play. Advice/suggestions would also be very helpful, especially for the sideboard.
How about hexmages to deal with pwalks or revokers.
Easily fetchable
Unfortunately the mana base cannot usually produce BB for Vampire Hexmage.
Phyrexian Revoker might be good though since it's an answer to Jace, bounce your Myr Welder, which is not very good for this deck.
There are actually surprisingly few things that can deal with Myr Welder at instant speed (and thus really hurt your combo), I could only think of Doom Blade, Into the Roil, and Consume the Meek, as possible playable main deck cards that would disrupt you mid-combo (and thus exile the combo pieces). Sure Myr Welder can be killed by a whole slew of other things at sorcery speed, but that just means that I will go get it again with Grim Discovery or fetch another one with Fauna Shaman. That's the thing I really like about this deck, once the combo pieces are in the graveyard the deck will eventually win.
maybe im just competely missing the obvious here, but why Grim Discovery over Nature's Claim? The two cards read pretty much the same to me (except that Nature's Claim costs one less and is already of a color in your deck) and I am confused why you would splash black just for the GD, yet have the NC in your sideboard.
EDIT: oh, one OR BOTH. i get it. also, i was thinking of Nature's Spiral
4x Myr Welder
4x Hedron Crab
4x Soliton
4x Riddlesmith
4x Memnite
2x Ornithopter
2x Moltentail Masticore
ARTIFACTS
4x Khalni Gem
2x Lux Cannon
1x Grind Clock
1x Myr Turbine
3x Deprive
3x Leyline of Anticipation
LAND
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Halimar Depths
14x Island
2x Moltentail Masticore
4x Mana Leak
2x Ornithopter
4x Into the Roil
3x Blue Sun's Zenith
Deprive is an amazing card, especially with the crab synergy, also works well with a hard casted Khalni Gem if needs be, the fact that you get to bounce a land for your crab no matter what is awe inspiring.
Leyline of Anticipation is worlds ahead of Shimmer Myr, especially when its' free, stays out til your opponents 4th turn, and you flash in the Myr Welder, this is definitely a "you win again!" card.
Halimar Depths first turn makes it so I can keep zero Myr Welder hands, without having to put things like Preordain in the deck, that and with Hedron Crab I mill, then lace, putting usually fuel for whatever engine I need, or lets me dig 6 cards down for the Myr Welder.
I've found that Kuldotha Forgemaster doesn't fit in here, it's way too clunky and feels like an Obi Wan Kenobi (your only hope) when you cast it, or use it with Myr Welder from the yard, this isn't Shape Anew, which honestly I think is the only deck Blightsteel Collossus belongs in right now. (plus you can't really protect the darn thing once you get it out!)
Has anyone tried a combination of Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Jace's Erasure with this deck? Here's the reason why...
If you use Jace's second ability with Erasure, you can draw three cards, put the two that you want in the graveyard on top of the library, and then opt to put them in the graveyard with Erasure. I wasn't sure of this at first, but after reading the ruling on Brainstorm, which is Jace's second ability, it works since it's all one effect. Even better, Erasure would trigger 3 times, meaning that you can opt to have it only fire once if you need the next card, fire on both, or none if you'll need the cards in the next turn.
What's more, Jace gives this deck something is desperately needs: control. You can make sure your opponent doesn't get the card he wants, bounce his creatures, or blow away the library for an alternate win condition.
Additionally, you can use Erasure with Preordain or Foresee and put cards in the graveyard that you absolutely want in the graveyard.
For what it's worth, while it's not the first card I'd pick, Horrifying Revelation could be very power after a Preordain that resulted in a card in your hand and on top of your library that you wanted in the graveyard.
In all honesty, I really don't think milling yourself is the answer here. In pure dredge it's different because everything plays off of the graveyard. What happens if you Tome Scour or fetch land Hedron Crab yourself and watch all of your Myr Welders go into the graveyard? With milling in this deck, if you mill wrong, you screw yourself, badly.
I strongly disagree. Leyline is a great card if you get it in the opening hand, a decent card later on, and a totally dead card if you already have it on the field. The Myr is, at worst, something you could sacrifice to Forgemaster.
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Don't think I like Deprive either. Sure the extra landfall could be nice, but I don't want that taking a spot in the deck because I don't know if I'm going to run counters MB, and sometimes having a land in your hand is just annoying if you already have more. Maybe though, maybe in the SB.
Halimar is interesting... I had considered it before, but I don't think it combos with the Crab much. It can help us get what we need faster and protect us from milling our Welders.
And in your deck, I don't think the Forgemaster is good either. You don't have many good options to forge for with it. In some decks, I think it might work really well.
Jace's Erasure does combo very well in those situations. If anything, seems like it might be better than the Riddlesmith when comboed with Preodrain/Jace/Foresee. I'm not going to be running any Mind Sculptors, but I think this card may be very solid indeed. It might be a little slow, but with set up like that, we'll be hopefully discarding what we need, and don't risk milling things we want in our hand as much as with Hedron Crab.
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
I had 6 lands and a Masticore, but two of the lands were Halimar Depths. Played one, saw the top three were Jace's Erasure, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, and Soliton. Turn two, drew the Erasure and played it, turn three drew Tezzeret and got Soliton in the graveyard.
Dropped the second Halimar Depths, saw Soliton, Lux Cannon and Blightsteel Colossus. Made it so that I could now dump the Cannon into the graveyard on the next turn.
Not a great early hand, but it was cool to see Soliton and Lux Cannon get dumped that fast.
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7x Island
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Halimar Depths
3x Jace's Erasure
Creatures
4x Enclave Cryptologist
2x Molten-Tail Masticore
4x Soliton
1x Blightsteel Colossus
4x Myr Welder
4x Deprive
2x Blue Sun's Zenith
Artifacts
4x Khalni Gem
2x Lux Cannon
Planeswalkers
4x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
So far, my thought is that the mana curve is too high. The only 1 drop is the Enclave Cryptologist, and while he's very good, there should probably be room in here for something else. Halimar Depths seem to be helping, especially if you can use the Erasure on the next turn.
I've only had the Jace/Erasure combo work out for me a couple of times when I was playtesting. When it does, it's very effective, but other times I find myself wishing I had a better spell in my hand.
It's a tricky balance. When I have Myr Sculptor in my hand, I practically want to have Traumatize in my deck. When I don't, I'm waiting to grab him.
Tezzeret helps a lot as well since he can either get the card you want or send the top five to the bottom to have a better shot at something good.
All in all, it seems like this deck is close to being a dark horse. It has the potential to hit very hard and unexpectedly if you can Zenith them into oblivion, or Lux Cannon the battlefield.
I'm very curious to see if "Action" produces the missing link to this one.
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Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
This is what I'm currently looking at. Haven't played with this specific build yet, will soon enough.
20 Island
3 Halimar Depths
COMBO PIECES
4 Myr Welder
3 Soliton
3 Khalni Gem
2 Lux Cannon
1 Blue Sun Zenith
3 Molten-Tail Masticore
3 Sphinx of Lost Truths
4 Hedron Crab
EXTRA
4 Preordain
3 Perilous Myr
1 Myr Battlesphere
2 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Shimmer Myr
It should be noted that the Forgemaster can also be a grave-filler.
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
Man they would be handsome.
Naya Mid Rang
You realize that Myr Welder only copies activated abilities, correct? So imprinting a Plague Myr will not give it infect, it will give it the ability to tap for one colorless mana.
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
I decided to run Birds of Paradise. With the incredible amount of burn in my meta, there are sure to be players to burn it up, saving the Welder for at least a win. If they don't deal with it, it pretty much spells T4-5 death. I'm already in green for the Shaman so eh... Make use of my Misty Rainforests.
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
Round 1: BR Vamps
This was incredibly disappointing. My deck rolled over and died. Saw three Welders both games and then one Fauna Shaman game two. The rest was a mana flood. Happens I guess?
0-2
Round 2: BG Ramp (G Titan, P Titan, Cobras, Ob nixilis)
Game 1- I'm on the play and see opening hand of Two Crabs, Welder, Verdant Catacombs, Misty Rainforest, Fauna Shaman, Khalni Gem. I play a crab, he plays a land, passes. I play and crack a fetch, play a fauna shaman. He plays T2 Lotus Cobra. I spike a land, and play T3 Welder. Apparently, he doesn't seem to notice the shenanigans going on in my GY, but I did have two Masticores, Khalni Gem. He plays a bunch of Explores and Cultivates off his Cobra. T4 I drop a Soliton that I drew earlier into my GY with the shaman, and then combo off on him. I had six creatures in my GY after milling myself so hard, two of which were Masticores. I went Soliton-Khalni Gem-Masticore, kill you. He called a judge because he didn't believe what was going on. Lulz.
Game 2 - He says prior he has boarded in fourteen removal spells, and tells me good luck. At this point, I haven't seen any removal spells so I didn't pay much attention to it.
He T1 land, I turn one land no play. My opening hand was land, land, sphere of the suns, fauna shaman, necrotic ooze, molten tail Masticore, Lux Cannon. Mediocre on the play, on the draw sure. And if he did board in a lot of removal, then this is good. T2 he plays a land, passes. I figured he had removal, so I actually threw out T2 Shaman. EOT it was smothered. T3 he plays a land, passes. T3 I spiked a Welder, but elected for Sphere of the Suns. T4 he plays Memoricide naming Molten-tail Masticore. Weird. So he glances at my hand, and smirks. T4 I draw Soliton, I play Necrotic Ooze. He sinks in his chair a bit. He plays T5 lotus Cobra and explores a bunch of times. T5 I shaman the soliton to the GY with the ooze, and get a welder. I Untap the Ooze with Solitons ability, play out the welder. T6 he plays Ob Nixilis the Fallen, land, explores, plays verdant catacombs, then cultivates. I'm at 8. EoT I exile Soliton with Welder. T6 I drew a Khalni Gem, kind of lucky there. Sitting on 6 mana, a Sphere of the Suns with one counter, I shaman a Hedron Crab to my GY with the ooze for Sphinx of Lost Truths. Cast it and discard the opening Lux Cannon and Khalni Gem to GY. with one U mana up, I exile the Khalni gem with the welder, and combo off on him.
2-0, 1-1.
Round 3: CawBlade.
Game 1: I got a major god draw, and he got stuck on two mana. I went T1 BoP, T2 Welder, T3 Hedron Crab, Hedron Crab, with an uncracked fetch. Crack the fetch, milling 6, and wouldn't you know, Soliton-Khalni Gem-Lux Cannon for the kill. Can't believe it actually happened.
Game 2: On the draw. He T1 preordains. T1 BoP for me. He T2 stoneforges for SoFaF. I land turn 2 shaman. T3 he stoneforges his sword out, U mana up. T3 I play out welder. I fully expected DoJ here, so I baited him, and he took it. I had Masticore, ooze, welder, Khalni gem, spell pierce. I turn around with a T4 Welder, U up for spell pierce. T5 he doesn't play a land, and casts Jace, which I spell pierce. T5 I draw Soliton. I play out Necrotic Ooze. T6 he plays squadron hawk, passes, missing another land drop. T6 I draw USZ, pass. I wanted to represent counterspells here, which he admittedly tells me he held back because he was afraid to run another jace into another counter spell. Instead he plays out Gideon T7, which I just don't understand, but he's moderately screwed either way at this point. He passes, I EoT shaman with ooze soliton into the GY, getting Sphinx of Lost Truths. T7 I play the Sphinx, discarding Khalni Gem, land, land, and have two U mana up. I combo of with welder and kill him with USZ.
2-0, 2-1.
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
Can you post the decklist?
Am I missing something, but doesn't Welder have summoning sickness?
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
Yup you're right he did. I tried to do all this from memory, but apparently I missed a step somewhere in there... Not sure what happened, but I remember he just ramped a bunch and I got lucky and killed him.
Sorry I haven't posted a list yet, been busy with work.
4x Hedron Crab
4x Fauna Shaman
3x Sphinx of Lost Truths
2x Molten-Tail Masticore
3x Necrotic Ooze
3x Soliton
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Preordain
1x Blue Suns Zenith
2x Lux Cannon
3x Khalni Gem
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Swamp
3x Forest
8x Island
Like I posts before, I kinda just took everything I wanted to try and threw it together. I liked the birds, they helped. The Masticores were ridiculously good. I was always happy to have one either in my hand, in play, or in GY. Sphere of the Suns was nice for mana fixing, as three colors is kind of brutal. The Oozes were awesome all night. But in reality, with out Myr welder, they just shaman mostly. Makes me want to run Steel Overseer and maybe Triskelion next week, and base the deck over more heavy artifact creatures. I wish we could find an infinite mana combo that is enabled with the ooze, that's not incredibly difficult to obtain.
The shamans help out this deck so much. I played a few more decks for fun and found that people generally run out of kill spells by the time welde comes out, after killing birds and shaman, even Hedron crabs. I like the idea of keeping a low curve.
That's about it though... Hope this helps. Feedback appreciated. And sorry if the report is a little shaky, I'll try not to do it from memory next week.
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
The Birds and Fauna Shaman did a lot for you in those games. But I don't know if I'm sold on the Ooze... While it also helped a lot, it was usually just a Fauna Shaman. I feel like Grim Discovery could do that job better. Firstly, Grim Discovery at worst could get the Fauna Shaman back to your hand, which could then go on the field, for the same price as playing an Ooze. But at the same time, Grim Discovery will almost always be able to return us a popped fetch land (or just a milled basic land or something) to our hands to play again. Something to think about, and it makes the need for black mana lower, since its only 1B.
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
I agree completely about Grim Discovery, I had stated in an earlier post that I that the Oozes could be taken out for it. The Ooze is an awesome body as well, but really, I think we'd have to totally rethink the combo for it to work, and that directly takes away from the main synergy of the deck.
I do feel like the deck is really still inconsistent. If you don't land a Shaman or welder or crab, it kinda rolls over... I was going to look into other shaman lists to see if they had anything to offer.
Standard:
:symu::symg::symb:Myr Welder Combo:symu::symg::symb:
:symb::symu:Infect:symu::symb:
Trades!
I had been considering that, too. I haven't been able to test because of work and I'm missing some uncommons (yeah, uncommons.) It seems like it could be viable. Plus, no one expects a 7/7 Hedron Crab.
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
How about hexmages to deal with pwalks or revokers.
Easily fetchable
Unfortunately the mana base cannot usually produce BB for Vampire Hexmage.
Phyrexian Revoker might be good though since it's an answer to Jace, bounce your Myr Welder, which is not very good for this deck.
There are actually surprisingly few things that can deal with Myr Welder at instant speed (and thus really hurt your combo), I could only think of Doom Blade, Into the Roil, and Consume the Meek, as possible playable main deck cards that would disrupt you mid-combo (and thus exile the combo pieces). Sure Myr Welder can be killed by a whole slew of other things at sorcery speed, but that just means that I will go get it again with Grim Discovery or fetch another one with Fauna Shaman. That's the thing I really like about this deck, once the combo pieces are in the graveyard the deck will eventually win.
EDIT: oh, one OR BOTH. i get it. also, i was thinking of Nature's Spiral