If i had inferno titans i'd put them in place of the hoard-smelter dragon, but right now i don't. But the deck runs very smoothly. The only issue i've had with any deck so far is WW Quest, and i decided to side board Lightning Bolt and Pyroclasm for that.
why you guys are running Ancient Stirrings in this list? You have like 12 artifact in all lists... and Ancient Stirrings a land is sad. If you play that card your lists need more artifact IMO
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Kakwann, Lvl 39 Sorcerer
Currently Playing
Standard:GWRU 4C Collected Company Modern:GUWRB Bloom Titan Legacy:BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH : GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
why you guys are running Ancient Stirrings in this list? You have like 12 artifact in all lists... and Ancient Stirrings a land is sad. If you play that card your lists need more artifact IMO
It is to be able to get that Liquimetal Coating fast and there are very few green cards that let you scry. I have been thinking of making a R/U version of this deck for preordain and foresee, but then you lose out on naturalize, sylvok replica, acidic slime and nature's spiral. You also lose the cheap scars/M11 duals.
I do love how Hoard-Smelter Dragon carries the Timmy hope of "target your Emrakul. +15/15!"
Ancient Stirrings is verrry hard to replace. While it's not optimal, Liquimetal Coating is so important that the stirrings is a must. There is just no artifact tutoring. Yet. It's made me wonder about black for Diabolic Tutor or Liliana Vess.
emrakul is not an artifact! and even if it was you can target it with the dragon because emrakul is protection of colored spell
While i understand the Ancient Stirrings tech, i think you can add more artifact to make that card even stronger.
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Kakwann, Lvl 39 Sorcerer
Currently Playing
Standard:GWRU 4C Collected Company Modern:GUWRB Bloom Titan Legacy:BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH : GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
emrakul is not an artifact! and even if it was you can target it with the dragon because emrakul is protection of colored spell
While i understand the Ancient Stirrings tech, i think you can add more artifact to make that card even stronger.
1. Liquimetal Coating turns emrakul into an artifact.
2. Abilities are not spells. Emrakul can be targeted by hoard smelter because it's an ability.
3. Ancient stirrings is fine even with a low artifact count. It digs you 5 cards deep for a 4-of. If it doesn't it it, It'll hit a land 90% of the time. We ONLY want to hit liquimetal coating OR mimic vat (if you do not have a liquimetal in there). There is nothing else to take advantage of.
Do you guys think that Galvanic Blast and Kuldotha Pheonex anre even valid in this deck? This deck only runs 4 artifacts, 2 of which (Mimic Vat & Liquimetal Coating) are both at high risk of being destroyed by the opponent). Also, the replica doesnt stay up long either due to it being sac.
Personally, it seems that most of the time, you may have 1 or 2 artifacts up at once. But ido suppose u could use Liquimetal to turn another card into an artifact, but that seems like abit of a waste of a tap.
I think 2 cards that could replace would be burst lightning, and hoard-smelter dragon. Any thoughts?
I won't give any illusions here, without Liquimetal it's hard to get off the ground. That is why I think the following distribution of cards is close to the correct one for this deck.
Why aren't people running Tuktuk Scrapper over Oxidda Scrapmelter? It deals damage to your opponent when it comes into play and destroys an artifact. You mimic vat i just to constantly destroy their artifacts and ping them down.
That and to hell with Viridian Revel. Crystal Ball runs so much more smoothly fun setting up your draws
Why aren't people running Tuktuk Scrapper over Oxidda Scrapmelter? It deals damage to your opponent when it comes into play and destroys an artifact. You mimic vat i just to constantly destroy their artifacts and ping them down.
That and to hell with Viridian Revel. Crystal Ball runs so much more smoothly fun setting up your draws
Oxiddia Scrapmelter is 3/3. Tuktuk is 2/2. You gain 1 damage on drop to lose 1 damage every turn afterwards.
After about turn 6, Crystal Ball > Viridian Revel. But the important turns are usually pre-turn 6.
The main argument in favor of Crystal Ball is that it helps you find Liquimetal Coating. Without which this deck is supersuboptimal. Viridian Revel really only comes on line after LMC is in play. Unless you're playing against artifacts already, in which case, you're probably good. Even after LMC is in play, Revel only draws you a destroy effect if you have one already - classic win more. Crystal Ball lets you dig for a destroy effect.
Plus in a budget 2 color deck, Crystal Ball is always castable. The future seems clear to me.
Hey Guys. This is My RUG Build for Liquimetal Control that im rolling with right now, if anyone has any advice on things to change, please let me know. (P.S, its Budget-ish. No JTMS)
I posted this in two other threads before finding this one, figured I should post here too and collect some thoughts. Here's the build I've been running:
This deck absolutely laughs in the face of anything that even thinks about Quest for the Holy Relic. The Birds of Paradise allow you to get the land destruction machine online as early as turn 2. Raging Ravine provides the muscle this deck otherwise lacks. Harrow thins the deck and allows you to drop a Naturalize after.
Really the only thing I'm still torn about is Molder Beast. 5/3 trample for 5 isn't bad on its own, and the boosting power can get absolutely ridiculous late game when chain-destroying everything. Recently I removed the two Molder Beasts I had for the two Acidic Slime for testing. Either way, the deck does alright.
@Super_Ashura:
Do NOT drop your land count below 21 unless you like to mulligan.
Molder beast underperforms in my opinion, he's just not a great finisher. His ability to deal damage is dependant on your other cards, and does nothing special. He's easily bolted (which, by the way, is a hard spell to lock your opponent out of). Traditionally, good finishers for liquimetal are:
I'm generally more of a fan of Crystal Ball than Viridian Revel. It's better if you would manipulate your draws each turn rather than drawing a bunch of cards that you might not necessarily want along with the chance that you sometimes couldn't destroy an artifact every turn or two.
Centering this deck around primarily land destruction isn't my cup of tea. I'd rather control the board through any artifact destruction or burn and then attack with finishers or any of my creatures.
Acidic Slime is versatile, I might say. Though it's a bit iffy for me.
Tuktuk Scrapper does deal a little extra damage on the side, but I still think that in the long run, Oxidda Scrapmelter would deal more damage.
Ancient Stirrings is a must-have in this deck. I love it. Even if you might not get a Liquimetal Coating, you could get a land or anything else that's colorless that might be useful. Plus, it still means more chances to get a Liquimetal Coating.
Didn't like Hoard-Smelter Dragon and Naturalize that much, especially since I had Nature's Claim (who cares if it's life gain as long as you control the board and have some nice creatures on the field) and Sylvok Replica (to get rid of Emrakul, though not necessarily just to get rid of it).
I think the key with Liquimetal Coating decks is to build them to not be dependent on drawing the Coating in the first place... this means running as few cards as possible that are only good with Coating.
Also, having more draw is always a good idea when you're effectively running a combo + control deck. To me, I think of lots of colorless cards + Ancient Stirrings and then I think of Preordain and Sea Gate Oracle.
I think UG is the way to go here... here's a list off the top of my head:
There are a total of 6 cards that work with Liquimetal Coating, which might not seem like much... but 3 of those cards can be found via Ancient Stirrings, and there are a total of 12 other cards that let you dig/draw to find an Acidic Slime. With a Mimic Vat out, it shouldn't be too difficult to make the Coating do it's job...
Well you don't want your deck to be completely based on getting Liquimetal Coating, you would be an idiot to run any less than 4 liquimetal coating. That would be like running 3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor in U/B or Caw Go, or only 3 Quest for the Holy Relic in WW Relic. If a card makes every single card in your deck vindicates, you want to run 4 of that card.
Ancient Stirrings= teh love
Mimic Vat= Acceptable and definitely better if you run 4 Liquimetal Coatings. Nothing is more enjoyable than taking a Gideon on a Vat. Ok, Primeval Titan comes close... but Gideon! Seriously, it makes all other Caw Go Gideon's useless, allows you to hit for 6 or assassinate every turn, and is untouchable unless they whip out Into the Roil. Hawtness!
The only thing that'll make this deck effective enough is not to overtly rely on Liquimetal Coating and have alternate win conditions at the side.
I've only tried RG, but I'm willing to take UG on a spin. Something tells me that UG may lack the burn and creature sweep of RG, but makes up for it in counters and draw (and obviously Liquimetal Coating protection).
Ok, so Ichor Wellspring? WTF? Currently, it functions as:
1) card draw in R/G
2) another target for Ancient Stirrings
3) a potential target for unused artifact destruction
4) more metalcraft for Galvanic Blast
It's not optimal, but I traded for a set the other day, and went with it. Also, I'm not using Oxidda Scrapmelter because at 4 mana, if I haven't been destroying lands, I had better damn well start, and Demolish is a guaranteed LD (doesn't need LMC). I own a single Mimic Vat, and I may sub that in for 1 Ichor Wellspring. Goblin with a gun, I followed your posts closely on the older thread, and respect your opinions. Have I left the archetype with this list?
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Currently Playing:
Standard GOverwhelming StompyG RUKiln ThiefUR WUGideon ControlUW BBSkinrender AggroBB RGLiquimetal Control (in development)GR
Also.. i'm not sure exactly what it gets us.. but you can run W/R or W/G... or WRG if you wanted...the dual lands are there Revoke Existence and Divine Offering... like the idea of exiling cards...
Also.. i'm not sure exactly what it gets us.. but you can run W/R or W/G... or WRG if you wanted...the dual lands are there Revoke Existence and Divine Offering... like the idea of exiling cards...
21 lands = too few. The curve on this deck is more control/midrange, so 24 is a must.
You don't need See Beyond in addition to Preordain. R/G variants use Ancient Stirrings to dig for LMC, which is arguably better than Preordain for this purpose. I would use Crush instead of Shatter b/c 90% of the time, this deck is a Land Destruction build, and you want the cheapest artifact kill cards you can find. Again, R/G variants run Nature's Claim for that reason. U/R is cool, and counter support is handy. R/G gets around this with Ricochet Trap, but an honest-to-god counter is better.
My 2 cents.
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Currently Playing:
Standard GOverwhelming StompyG RUKiln ThiefUR WUGideon ControlUW BBSkinrender AggroBB RGLiquimetal Control (in development)GR
Just realized that fooling around with a UR Myr Version of this deck that Splinter Twin has some really really really nice synergy with Manic Vandal, etc..
oh.. and for reference sake... here's the Myr LMC version
3 Sylvok Replica
3 Manic Vandal
3 Tuktuk Scrapper
3 Birds of Paradise
1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
Spells
4 Naturalize
4 Shatter
4 Nature's Claim
3 Slice in Twain
3 Ancient Stirrings
4 Liquimetal Coating
2 Mimic Vat
3 Crystal Ball
Lands
5 Forest
5 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Raging Ravine
4 Tectonic Edge
If i had inferno titans i'd put them in place of the hoard-smelter dragon, but right now i don't. But the deck runs very smoothly. The only issue i've had with any deck so far is WW Quest, and i decided to side board Lightning Bolt and Pyroclasm for that.
Standard: GWRU 4C Collected Company
Modern: GUWRB Bloom Titan
Legacy: BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH :
GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED
GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA
UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED
UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY
B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE
R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
It is to be able to get that Liquimetal Coating fast and there are very few green cards that let you scry. I have been thinking of making a R/U version of this deck for preordain and foresee, but then you lose out on naturalize, sylvok replica, acidic slime and nature's spiral. You also lose the cheap scars/M11 duals.
Ancient Stirrings is verrry hard to replace. While it's not optimal, Liquimetal Coating is so important that the stirrings is a must. There is just no artifact tutoring. Yet. It's made me wonder about black for Diabolic Tutor or Liliana Vess.
While i understand the Ancient Stirrings tech, i think you can add more artifact to make that card even stronger.
Standard: GWRU 4C Collected Company
Modern: GUWRB Bloom Titan
Legacy: BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH :
GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED
GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA
UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED
UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY
B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE
R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
1. Liquimetal Coating turns emrakul into an artifact.
2. Abilities are not spells. Emrakul can be targeted by hoard smelter because it's an ability.
3. Ancient stirrings is fine even with a low artifact count. It digs you 5 cards deep for a 4-of. If it doesn't it it, It'll hit a land 90% of the time. We ONLY want to hit liquimetal coating OR mimic vat (if you do not have a liquimetal in there). There is nothing else to take advantage of.
Personally, it seems that most of the time, you may have 1 or 2 artifacts up at once. But ido suppose u could use Liquimetal to turn another card into an artifact, but that seems like abit of a waste of a tap.
I think 2 cards that could replace would be burst lightning, and hoard-smelter dragon. Any thoughts?
WR Boros Burn WR
Modern
R Burn R
I run
-2 rootbound crag
-2 raging ravine
+ 4 evolving wilds
-2 Oxidda Scrapmelter
+ Acidic slime
-1 koth
+1 mimic vat
-2 viridian revel
+ 2 crystal ball
- 2 natures claim
+ 2 voltanic key
-2 inferno titan
+2 hoardsmelter dragon
WR Boros Burn WR
Modern
R Burn R
Here's a try:
4 Manic Vandal
3 Sylvok Replica
2 Oxidda Scrapmelter
2 Horde Smelter Dragon
Spells:
4 Liquimetal Coating
4 Lightening Bolt
4 Preordain
4 Natures Claim
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Mana Leak
3 Veridian Revel
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Kazandu Refuge
3 Halimar Depths
2 Islands
4 Forests
5 Mountains
Standard: In Transition
Modern: RG Urzatron
Legacy: W Mighty Quinn
UW Stoneblade
Vintage: GWU "Classic" Angel Oath
GW Enchantress
Should i run...
Oxidda Scarpmelter or Acidic Slime
(I think Acidic is beter combined with Mimic vat)
WR Boros Burn WR
Modern
R Burn R
That and to hell with Viridian Revel. Crystal Ball runs so much more smoothly fun setting up your draws
Oxiddia Scrapmelter is 3/3. Tuktuk is 2/2. You gain 1 damage on drop to lose 1 damage every turn afterwards.
After about turn 6, Crystal Ball > Viridian Revel. But the important turns are usually pre-turn 6.
Plus in a budget 2 color deck, Crystal Ball is always castable. The future seems clear to me.
4 Manic Vandel
3 Sylvok Replica
2 Acidic Slime
3 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
Spells (14)
4 Preordain
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Natures Claim
2 Mana Leak
1 Spell Pierce
Artifacts (10)
4 Liquimetal Coating
2 Mimic Vat
2 Crystal Ball
2 Voltaic Key
1 Rootbound Crag
2 Raging Ravine
4 Island
4 Forrest
4 Mountain
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Spell Pierce
3 Riccochet Trap
2 Nature's Spiral
3 Pyoclasm
4 Lightning Bolt
WR Boros Burn WR
Modern
R Burn R
2 Acidic Slime
3 Manic Vandal
4 Sylvok Replica
4 Birds of Paradise
Instants:
3 Harrow
4 Naturalize
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Nature's Claim
2 Viridian Revel
Artifacts:
4 Liquimetal Coating
Sorceries:
2 Roiling Terrain
4 Ancient Stirrings
Lands:
4 Raging Ravine
4 Rootbound Crag
5 Mountain
8 Forest
4 Ricochet Trap
3 Pyroclasm
4 Nature's Spiral
4 Tectonic Edge
This deck absolutely laughs in the face of anything that even thinks about Quest for the Holy Relic. The Birds of Paradise allow you to get the land destruction machine online as early as turn 2. Raging Ravine provides the muscle this deck otherwise lacks. Harrow thins the deck and allows you to drop a Naturalize after.
The board is pretty simple: Ricochet Trap nabs counterspells, Pyroclasm for things like Goblins, Nature's Spiral is essentially Liquimetal Coating number 5-8, and Tectonic Edge helps against ramp.
Really the only thing I'm still torn about is Molder Beast. 5/3 trample for 5 isn't bad on its own, and the boosting power can get absolutely ridiculous late game when chain-destroying everything. Recently I removed the two Molder Beasts I had for the two Acidic Slime for testing. Either way, the deck does alright.
Also, I might replace the Viridian Revels with Crystal Balls, haven't decided yet. Also looking for room for Mimic Vat. Is the Vat even worth the 1-of? I'm currently thinking -1 Forest, +1 Mimic Vat.
Do NOT drop your land count below 21 unless you like to mulligan.
Molder beast underperforms in my opinion, he's just not a great finisher. His ability to deal damage is dependant on your other cards, and does nothing special. He's easily bolted (which, by the way, is a hard spell to lock your opponent out of). Traditionally, good finishers for liquimetal are:
Kuldotha Phoenix
Steel Hellkite
Wurmcoil Engine
Hoard-smelter Dragon
Centering this deck around primarily land destruction isn't my cup of tea. I'd rather control the board through any artifact destruction or burn and then attack with finishers or any of my creatures.
Acidic Slime is versatile, I might say. Though it's a bit iffy for me.
Tuktuk Scrapper does deal a little extra damage on the side, but I still think that in the long run, Oxidda Scrapmelter would deal more damage.
Ancient Stirrings is a must-have in this deck. I love it. Even if you might not get a Liquimetal Coating, you could get a land or anything else that's colorless that might be useful. Plus, it still means more chances to get a Liquimetal Coating.
Didn't like Hoard-Smelter Dragon and Naturalize that much, especially since I had Nature's Claim (who cares if it's life gain as long as you control the board and have some nice creatures on the field) and Sylvok Replica (to get rid of Emrakul, though not necessarily just to get rid of it).
Also, having more draw is always a good idea when you're effectively running a combo + control deck. To me, I think of lots of colorless cards + Ancient Stirrings and then I think of Preordain and Sea Gate Oracle.
I think UG is the way to go here... here's a list off the top of my head:
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Tectonic Edge
2x Dread Statuary
8x Island
7x Forest
Artifacts (13):
3x Liquimetal Coating
2x Cyrstal Ball
3x Mimic Vat
3x Sylvok Replica
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Chimeric Mass
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Preordain
3x Mana Leak
2x Spell Pierce
Creatures (7):
3x Sea Gate Oracle
3x Acidic Slime
1x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Planeswalkers (3):
3x Jace Beleren
4x Into the Roil
4x Spreading Seas
4x Naturalize
2x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Mana Leak
For budget reasons, you can always replace Misty Rainforest with Evolving Wilds.
There are a total of 6 cards that work with Liquimetal Coating, which might not seem like much... but 3 of those cards can be found via Ancient Stirrings, and there are a total of 12 other cards that let you dig/draw to find an Acidic Slime. With a Mimic Vat out, it shouldn't be too difficult to make the Coating do it's job...
Ancient Stirrings= teh love
Mimic Vat= Acceptable and definitely better if you run 4 Liquimetal Coatings. Nothing is more enjoyable than taking a Gideon on a Vat. Ok, Primeval Titan comes close... but Gideon! Seriously, it makes all other Caw Go Gideon's useless, allows you to hit for 6 or assassinate every turn, and is untouchable unless they whip out Into the Roil. Hawtness!
I've only tried RG, but I'm willing to take UG on a spin. Something tells me that UG may lack the burn and creature sweep of RG, but makes up for it in counters and draw (and obviously Liquimetal Coating protection).
4 Liquimetal Coating
=Dig= 10
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Ichor Wellspring
2 Crystal Ball
=Artifact/Land Removal= 14
4 Nature's Claim
4 Manic Vandal
4 Demolish
2 Acidic Slime
2 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
=Utility= 6
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Galvanic Blast
=Lands= 24
11 Forest
10 Mountain
2 Copperline Gorge
1 Raging Ravine
3 Act of Treason
4 Pyroclasm
4 Ricochet Trap
4 Nature's Spiral
Ok, so Ichor Wellspring? WTF? Currently, it functions as:
1) card draw in R/G
2) another target for Ancient Stirrings
3) a potential target for unused artifact destruction
4) more metalcraft for Galvanic Blast
It's not optimal, but I traded for a set the other day, and went with it. Also, I'm not using Oxidda Scrapmelter because at 4 mana, if I haven't been destroying lands, I had better damn well start, and Demolish is a guaranteed LD (doesn't need LMC). I own a single Mimic Vat, and I may sub that in for 1 Ichor Wellspring. Goblin with a gun, I followed your posts closely on the older thread, and respect your opinions. Have I left the archetype with this list?
Standard
GOverwhelming StompyG
RUKiln ThiefUR
WUGideon ControlUW
BBSkinrender AggroBB
RGLiquimetal Control (in development)GR
Extended
WUBEsper AggroBUW
Here's my take on it... not sure what to do about the lands.. so i just left them all basics
11 Mountain
10 Island
Creatures
4 Manic Vandal
4 Oxidda Scrapmelter
4 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
4 Shatter
4 Preordain
3 See Beyond
3 Mana Leak
3 Spell Pierce
4 Forked Bolt
4 Liquimetal Coating
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
1 See Beyond
1 Mana Leak
1 Spell Pierce
Also.. i'm not sure exactly what it gets us.. but you can run W/R or W/G... or WRG if you wanted...the dual lands are there
Revoke Existence and Divine Offering... like the idea of exiling cards...
21 lands = too few. The curve on this deck is more control/midrange, so 24 is a must.
You don't need See Beyond in addition to Preordain. R/G variants use Ancient Stirrings to dig for LMC, which is arguably better than Preordain for this purpose. I would use Crush instead of Shatter b/c 90% of the time, this deck is a Land Destruction build, and you want the cheapest artifact kill cards you can find. Again, R/G variants run Nature's Claim for that reason. U/R is cool, and counter support is handy. R/G gets around this with Ricochet Trap, but an honest-to-god counter is better.
My 2 cents.
Standard
GOverwhelming StompyG
RUKiln ThiefUR
WUGideon ControlUW
BBSkinrender AggroBB
RGLiquimetal Control (in development)GR
Extended
WUBEsper AggroBUW
oh.. and for reference sake... here's the Myr LMC version
3 Iron Myr
3 Silver Myr
4 Myr Galvanizer
4 Manic Vandal
4 Liquidmetal Coating
Spells
4 Shatter
4 Splinter Twin
4 Preordain
4 Turn Aside
4 Mana Leak
2 Red Sun's Zenith
4 Halimar Depths
10 Mountains
6 Islands
Not sure if there's really room for Hoard-Smelter Dragon or Myr Battlesphere but I'd love to sneak those in..