A quick aside on the Naya version of the deck, and some well-deserved praise for Tim Berg (BergyLuck) for fixing the deck quite nicely.
Lewis Laskin, Alex Bough (Virginia PTQ player,) and I had discussed a Destructive Force deck for the past couple weeks, and after trying out U/R/G, decided on a Naya control deck with good support spells and big threats that lasted through Force such as Planeswalkers, Titan, and Knight of the Reliquary. I sent the list to a few players, and Zohar Bhagat decided to play a version of the deck over the weekend at a tournament, and decided that he didn't like it very much.
It was at that point Berg picked up where we had all left off and decided to literally stay up all night brainstorming and tweaking the finer points of what was essentially a rough draft of the deck. Lo-and-behold the revised product performed well, especially after cutting some of the clunkier cards in our old build. I've been tweaking the Naya version for a 'few but Berg definitely turned this thing into a monster.
Despite the constantly changing card count, the deck has been an incredible amount of fun to test and tweak (even in clunkier forms,) and I definitely recommend it to anyone who is looking for a refreshing choice for anything from a PTQ to an FNM.
What is the SB plan against Jund? What comes out of the MD? Curious because I see a lot of anti-Jund stuff in the SB.
Pro Tour results from Kanazawa, Japan here. A Neo Wildfire deck (Under the equally smexy name of Titan Force.) finished at eighth place in the tourny. Decklist below.
There are striking similarities between this list and the URG list I found on Magic League a few pages back. Link here.
Frost Titan's apparently a house here, given a 2-2 split with Primeval. I think this confirms my suspicion that all the ramp elements leave few options for Primeval by the time it hits the field.
One thing I don't get is that both lists run Khalni Garden. What exactly is the point of this? To hold off aggro?
Prism > SiB cause we need as many ways to enable a turn 3 Lich as possible. If aggro is a problem a SB consisting of Comet Storm, Burst, etc. could be constructed. Super Friends would definitely be a problem, even with a Lich as Jace can easily bounce then just counter from there. Hexmage out of the side and Duress could work. Despite the BBB and RR costs I think the mana base is more than accommodating for the early turns.
No idea, to me R/B would definitely seem the slowest. It's more of attempting to abuse Lich + DF with a ton of standard B/R control elements. Finding room for Bloodghast is an idea I tossed around cause you are right, it's a great recursion body post DF however it really doesn't do anything for you pre-DF as it can't block and you don't really need any early game pressure. You'd be just as good taking Liliana to ultimate probably.
Titans could easily switch the split or even go 2/2 but I think Grave isn't as solid in this deck. It's babies die the turn after the turn you drop it but you could use the extra blockers vs. Aggro. Unsure.
Anyway, random thoughts, I seem to be enjoying toying around with all kinds of DF decks.
The white splash definitely strengthens the RG version. I haven't decided if I want to go all the way into Wall of Omens, Knight of the Reliquary, and/or Gideon (for one thing, I don't have any KotR or Gideon), but Ajani Vengeant and Condemn are solid.
I think Garruk is potentially insane here (as evidenced by his inclusion on other decklists), I just haven't decided what to cut for him yet. The obvious option are the Ruinblasters, but they did so well in testing last night that I'm reluctant to leave them out.
I can't help but notice the signifcantly larger spot removal package in your deck, how soon do you hit DF? Do you feel you need all that removal?
I'm just about to try out the Prophetic Prism in place of one Key and one SiB, have you found this card to be that worth it?
How do you Black in general? I tried it with White and with Blue but diddnt like either...this may be because i cannot get Gideon or JMS.
Thanks
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs." -Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
I have no way to protect the gem in R/B like in U/R, and it would be too tempting to put a phylactery counter on it and get totally owned when they destroy the gem. Having the artifact mana and the fixing in one package would be great but given that R/B naturally has access to color fixing lands and artifacts being allied, I think it works fine without. I don't plan on any serious testing of this version as to me it seems to be more about abusing Lich + other stuff then building around DF.
Room for Sarkhan wouldn't be bad but I don't think the deck could use the extra draw. True, I would net at least 2 extra draws though....
Yeah the draw would be pretty sweet plus if they have something that would survive the destructive force, ..say if your running a mirror match or sutch, you can yse sarhkan to turn it into a five/five fragon witch wont survive a DF. its not the most ifficent way to net kill but it works. as for the gem i do see your worries, in my version i run 12 artifacts so its no biggie.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What im running. GMono Green ElvesGIn progress RWRed White AgroRW4-4-0
He sticks an early Knight Exemplar and I bolt it. I precede to wrath his other 2 knights, and stick a turn 6 Destructive Force and an Obelisk of Alara next turn. I creature control him about ever other turn once he starts to recover, and slowly burn him to death, throwing in a random Force every one and a while.
1-0
He has no early plays and I stick an Obelisk before he can get his fourth mana for his Talus Paladin I wrath and kill him in about 8 turns.
2-0
Round 2: Mono Green Elves 2-0-0
Game one he sticks and early Elvish Archdruid followed by a Garruk and another Archdruid. I couldn't find the second white mana for the Day of Judgment.
0-1
Game two is easy; I wrath once on his early plays, and hit a Destructive Force after scrying with Crystal Ball. I hit an Obelisk and finish him after him after wrathing 4 more times... Ridiculous.
1-1
Game three comes down to the wire, me being at 2 life and finally hitting the Force. I drop Obelisk and kill his mana dudes. I wait for him to recover and drop a Joraga Warcaller and a Joraga Treespeaker followed by an Overwhelming Stampede (?!?!?), with I bolt and give -2/-2 in response on the Warcaller. He swings two, and I Condemn. I finish him with the Obelisk after ensuring victory after a Destructive Force.
Was on the draw and didn't get turn 2 Chalice for turn 3 DoJ. Meh...
0-1
It gets close, but Elspeth is incredibly irritating, and almost killed me by herself + early beats. Luckily he didn't get the god draw, and I wrath a couple times. After FINALLY killing Elspeth, he has two lands out, I realized I tapped out, he drops two Hierarchs getting 2 Vengevines hitting me for one overkill. Apparently Planeswalkers are bad for this deck...
Just for a side note, my sideboard was HORRIBLE, and not the list I posted above. Luckily I had 4 Pithing Needle, considering games one and four I fought off Garruks, and game 3 I fought Elspeth.
0-2
Round 4: Mono Green Aggro Something 3-1
Game one I wrath and he has no recovery what so ever... Whatever.
1-0
Game two is pretty ridiculous after seeing two 3/1 creatures (Some bad shrouded card for 3 mana..., honestly his deck was not that good), which both got Giant Growths. I go down to five, scrying twice with Crystal Ball, finding nothing both times, and topdeck a sideboarded Kaldera Hellion. He once again has no recovery.
2-0
Planeswalkers are hard to deal with and I am glad for the NOW 4 Oblivion Rings in the Sideboard. This deck has serious potential, but needs to be able to do something against the incredible power of Mythic Conscription.
For those of you building a R/G version of this deck, I would suggest reading this article. And I'm not referring to the decklist with Destructive Force in it, but rather you should be reading the part talking about Summoning Trap. It sounds like a nice answer to those Mana Leak, yes?
Both the land and artifact ramp builds have struck me as a bit slow and defenseless during the early game.. They seem to lack in both removal and board presence. I hadn't seen a creature ramp version yet, at least not one that doesn't nuke itself, check this build out.
The Birds and Cobras can provide very explosive starts, and the Cobras are especially potent with KotR and the Titan. Dauntless Escorts can be sacced to protect your creatures from D-Force or a DoJ, but that's only a fallback. The real goal is to get out a Primeval or Knight early, drop Sejiri Steppes to protect your mana critters and then cast Force on your second main. Both Knight and Primeval survive if unattended, so you are left in a virtually unbeatable position, and as an added benefit to the high creature count, you stand a good chance of winning even without Force, either through Garruk overrunning, Primeval pooping out manlands or 8/8 Knights making a mess of things. Initial testing has shown Ajani Vengeant to be lackluster in this deck. Gideon is testing well, but I have yet to try Elspeth and I have a feeling she would be good as well. I'd still like a bit more removal, as it still feels lacking, but I don't know what I could take out.
The sideboard needs some work, but the reasoning for each card should be apparent, with the exception of Path which is there for Mythic Conscription and the like. Again, any criticism is welcome.
Both the land and artifact ramp builds have struck me as a bit slow and defenseless during the early game.. They seem to lack in both removal and board presence. I hadn't seen a creature ramp version yet, at least not one that doesn't nuke itself, check this build out.
The Birds and Cobras can provide very explosive starts, and the Cobras are especially potent with KotR and the Titan. Dauntless Escorts can be sacced to protect your creatures from D-Force or a DoJ, but that's only a fallback. The real goal is to get out a Primeval or Knight early, drop Sejiri Steppes to protect your mana critters and then cast Force on your second main. Both Knight and Primeval survive if unattended, so you are left in a virtually unbeatable position, and as an added benefit to the high creature count, you stand a good chance of winning even without Force, either through Garruk overrunning, Primeval pooping out manlands or 8/8 Knights making a mess of things. Initial testing has shown Ajani Vengeant to be lackluster in this deck. Gideon is testing well, but I have yet to try Elspeth and I have a feeling she would be good as well. I'd still like a bit more removal, as it still feels lacking, but I don't know what I could take out.
The sideboard needs some work, but the reasoning for each card should be apparent, with the exception of Path which is there for Mythic Conscription and the like. Again, any criticism is welcome.
I especially like how KOTR works with the new wildfire.
Planeswalkers are hard to deal with and I am glad for the NOW 4 Oblivion Rings in the Sideboard. This deck has serious potential, but needs to be able to do something against the incredible power of Mythic Conscription.
Great results Cakins, thanks for the post.
BTW, how are all those Borderposts working out for you? I know they're great post-Force, but do you find they slow down your early game much?
I'm still pretty sure yours is the build closes to what I want to play, though I think I'd like to fit in my own Elspeths, Vengeatns and maybe Garruks somewhow.
Planeswalkers are hard to deal with and I am glad for the NOW 4 Oblivion Rings in the Sideboard. This deck has serious potential, but needs to be able to do something against the incredible power of Mythic Conscription.
I feel you there. My buddy plays Naya Conscrip, and the only way to stop it is to put Vengevines on the bottom of the deck, kill everything with a DoJ, or hope to God that he gets a terrible draw. Every game was like that, but I'm playing with Jace Beleren's, giving us the draw power that I, more importantly, need. If you can get Jaces in there, and sit on a couple of removal spells or mana leaks, it's smooth sailing from there.
Great results Cakins, thanks for the post.
BTW, how are all those Borderposts working out for you? I know they're great post-Force, but do you find they slow down your early game much?
I'm still pretty sure yours is the build closes to what I want to play, though I think I'd like to fit in my own Elspeths, Vengeatns and maybe Garruks somewhow.
Man I wish I could have taken notes, there were some funny things I did last night with Pithing Needles... On topic, the Borderposts really do not slow down my early game, because I only play a max of three during the first couple turns. Then I move onto a Khalni Gem, double kicked Everflowing Chalice, or DoJ. The Chalice is really the only early game I have other than creature control anyways.
Yeah, I think another kill condition would be nice to fit in, I just don't know what to take out.
I feel you there. My buddy plays Naya Conscrip, and the only way to stop it is to put Vengevines on the bottom of the deck, kill everything with a DoJ, or hope to God that he gets a terrible draw. Every game was like that, but I'm playing with Jace Beleren's, giving us the draw power that I, more importantly, need. If you can get Jaces in there, and sit on a couple of removal spells or mana leaks, it's smooth sailing from there.
I am seriously considering Relic of Progenitus in the sideboard because of Vengevine being such a pain. DoJ has nothing on him. Also, I am leaning towards a blue splash, because of countermagic protection, draw power, and Tezzeret to get the Relic and the Needle. Maybe actually having my good sideboard with me will win me the matchup. I hope so, because killing planeswalkers with Obelisk is no fun
Man I wish I could have taken notes, there were some funny things I did last night with Pithing Needles... On topic, the Borderposts really do not slow down my early game, because I only play a max of three during the first couple turns. Then I move onto a Khalni Gem, double kicked Everflowing Chalice, or DoJ. The Chalice is really the only early game I have other than creature control anyways.
Yeah, I think another kill condition would be nice to fit in, I just don't know what to take out.
I am seriously considering Relic of Progenitus in the sideboard because of Vengevine being such a pain. DoJ has nothing on him. Also, I am leaning towards a blue splash, because of countermagic protection, draw power, and Tezzeret to get the Relic and the Needle. Maybe actually having my good sideboard with me will win me the matchup. I hope so, because killing planeswalkers with Obelisk is no fun
I just noticed that with the Borderposts, almost exactly half of your 'lands' are CIPT, and having played 4C Cascade, I know what a pain that can be, especially when you topdeck them.
Also I'm not sure what I'd pull for Planeswalkers either.. it would be a difficult call.
Another thing I'd like to try and squeeze in is Voltaic Key. I doubt I'd run four Obelisks, but I just think the temptation of Khalni Gem + Voltaic Key + Obelisk of Alara would be too much to resist.
Another thing I'd like to try and squeeze in is Voltaic Key. I doubt I'd run four Obelisks, but I just think the temptation of Khalni Gem + Voltaic Key + Obelisk of Alara would be too much to resist.
Me and my friend tested Voltaic Key in my current list, and in a mono brown list. We found that it was so reliant on other cards, and all it ever did was make more mana, which we have never had a problem with in this deck. It was occasionally decent being Obelisks 5-7, but most of the time you just want to stall and dig for Obelisks and Forces as long as you can, instead of helping them when you get them.
I am planning on taking notes on FNM with a two of inclusion of Voltaic Key as a test, mostly because almost everyone I know that has seen me play this deck wants me to run it.
Awesome dude. Let me know how it goes.
I'm still waiting for my Forces to come in, so I think this week I'm going to be Johnny Rogue and play my old Cascade list, but once I get them, I'll probably copy your build, if not go -2 something +2 Ajani Vengeant
Key is infinitely better if you're playing Scepter of Dominance, which in turn powers up Ajani Vengeant and Gideon Jura as well as your board sweepers and DForces. Obviously it's fantastic with Obelisk (which is a sleeper win-con in this metagame), but it's not bad with many of the pre-existing tools in this deck anyways.
Cakins, the problem I see with your build is the only MD wincon is the obelisk, and that can be easily hated against with counters, artifact destruction, O-ring, Pulse, etc. Maybe splash blue a tad for counters? Shouldn't be hard with your borderposts and khalni gem. Still, you're going to run into more trouble with plainswalkers/control/conscription.
I'm still having trouble deciding what to splash for. Blue gives me Tezzeret and mana leak, but white has all this spot removal, as well as Ajani V. In my testing Mana leak has been great at slowing down my opponent and keeping early threats off while i ramp up to a DF, but i find myself wishing for the removal white has to offer. Also, I find myself saving 2 mana for the leak as opposed to ramping faster, of which I could probably stand to lose some life in order to hit DF.
Should I keep blue, or switch to white?
Hey all. I brought my G/R build (posted earlier in the thread) to a local tournament and lost most games, and so decided to splash a color for consistency of threats. A guy sitting next to me helped guide me towards a white splash, and though I haven't been able to test this deck yet, it looks so much better goldfishing.
I added one each of Titan and Force because I was able to acquire them, and 2 Titans and 3 Forces just wasn't working at all. I decided to splash white for the ridiculous Knight of the Reliquary. This card is ridiculous in a deck like this one that blows up it's own lands. I added the Bloodbraids because honestly I have no idea why I didn't have them in the original maindeck. They will always either hit a KotR, Lightning Bolt, or mana accel. Lastly, I replaced the cultivates with growth spasms because, as the guy sitting next to me pointed out, they accel me the same amount without clogging my hand up with lands, and "no one will waste a bolt on a 0/1".
Please tell me what you guys and girls think, I'd love some input on this deck.
Cakins, the problem I see with your build is the only MD wincon is the obelisk, and that can be easily hated against with counters, artifact destruction, O-ring, Pulse, etc. Maybe splash blue a tad for counters? Shouldn't be hard with your borderposts and khalni gem. Still, you're going to run into more trouble with plainswalkers/control/conscription.
Yeah I mentioned wanting a blue splash, and now I am going to have to come up with a list for it. I want to look for a new kill condition also. So far I have been lucky not getting into a fight with O-Ring or Pulse... I will after FNM tomorrow with a full tournament report and what I think should be inclusions.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
What is the SB plan against Jund? What comes out of the MD? Curious because I see a lot of anti-Jund stuff in the SB.
4 Forest
4 Island
3 Mountain
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Raging Ravine
2 Halimar Depths
2 Khalni Garden
2 Scalding Tarn
Creatures: 4
2 Frost Titan
2 Primeval Titan
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Instants: 10
2 Into the Roil
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
Sorceries: 14
3 Cultivate
3 Destructive Force
3 Explore
2 Mind Spring
3 Rampant Growth
4 Negate
3 Obstinate Baloth
2 Mind Control
2 Earthquake
2 Pelakka Wurm
1 Destructive Force
1 Mold Shambler
There are striking similarities between this list and the URG list I found on Magic League a few pages back. Link here.
Frost Titan's apparently a house here, given a 2-2 split with Primeval. I think this confirms my suspicion that all the ramp elements leave few options for Primeval by the time it hits the field.
One thing I don't get is that both lists run Khalni Garden. What exactly is the point of this? To hold off aggro?
BW BW Nuisances
RGW Naya Neo Wildfire
WUBRG 5C Super Friends
After a bit of testing I've moved too:
4 Lavaclaw Reaches
10 Swamp
6 Mountain
4 Phylactery Liche
4 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
2 Inferno Titan
1 Grave Titan
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Sign in Blood
2 Prophetic Prism
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Veinfire Borderpost
3 Chandra Nalaar
3 Destructive Force
Here's the version I'll be testing out tonight:
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Goblin Ruinblaster
4 Primeval Titan
2 Condemn
3 Crystal Ball
4 Cultivate
4 Destructive Force
3 Explore
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rampant Growth
7 Mountain
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Plains
3 Raging Ravine
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
1 All Is Dust
4 Autumn's Veil
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Brittle Effigy
4 Obstinate Baloth
2 Pithing Needle
I think Garruk is potentially insane here (as evidenced by his inclusion on other decklists), I just haven't decided what to cut for him yet. The obvious option are the Ruinblasters, but they did so well in testing last night that I'm reluctant to leave them out.
It's good to see someone else messing around with Black on this thread. This is the list I'm currently testing and it's doing well so far...
2 Voltaic Key
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
_2 Mana_
3 Everflowing Chalice
3 Earthquake
3 Terminate
2 Prophetic Prism
2 Sign in Blood
_3 Mana_
4 Veinfire Borderpost
3 Phylactery Lich
4 Khalni Gem
_5+ Mana_
4 Destructive Force
2 Inferno Titan
2 Liliana Vess
2 Chandra Nalaar
_Land_
4 Lavaclaw Reaches
8 Mountains
6 Swamps
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Fissure Vent
3 Chain Reaction
3 Reverberate
3 Pithing Needle
3 Duress
I can't help but notice the signifcantly larger spot removal package in your deck, how soon do you hit DF? Do you feel you need all that removal?
I'm just about to try out the Prophetic Prism in place of one Key and one SiB, have you found this card to be that worth it?
How do you Black in general? I tried it with White and with Blue but diddnt like either...this may be because i cannot get Gideon or JMS.
Thanks
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs."
-Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
Yeah the draw would be pretty sweet plus if they have something that would survive the destructive force, ..say if your running a mirror match or sutch, you can yse sarhkan to turn it into a five/five fragon witch wont survive a DF. its not the most ifficent way to net kill but it works. as for the gem i do see your worries, in my version i run 12 artifacts so its no biggie.
GMono Green ElvesGIn progress
RWRed White AgroRW4-4-0
4x Destructive Force
4x Rolling Terrain
4x Cultivate
3x Rampant Growth
3x lighting bolt
3x condemn
2x World Queller
3x Primeval Titan
4x Overgrown Battlement
[Planes Walkers] (5)
2x Garruk, Wildspeaker
3x Ajaine Vengeant
4x Arid Mesa
4x stirring wildwood
4x raging ravine
5x mountain
5x plains
3x forest
4x Firewild Borderpost
4x Verdant Catacombs
5x Swamp
5x Forest
4x Mountain
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Bituminous Blast
3x Cultivate
4x Rampant Growth
3x Broodmate Dragon
4x Destructive Force
4x Maelstrom Pulse
This list is, of course, by no means a finished or even tested list. It does look pretty sweet, however.
▲
▲ ▲
4x Destructive Force
4x Obelisk of Alara
Lands/Mana:
4x Arid Mesa
4x Mountain
5x Plains
3x Fieldmist Borderpost
2x Firewild Borderpost
4x Veinfire Borderpost
3x Wildfield Borderpost
3x Crystal Ball
4x Everflowing Chalice
4x Khalni Gem
Creatures:
4x Wall of Omens
Instants:
4x Condemn
4x Lightning Bolt
Sorceries:
4x Day of Judgment
4x Oblivion Ring
3x Forked Bolt
3x Kor Firewalker
3x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Luminarch Ascension
Round one: W/G Knights 1-0-0
He sticks an early Knight Exemplar and I bolt it. I precede to wrath his other 2 knights, and stick a turn 6 Destructive Force and an Obelisk of Alara next turn. I creature control him about ever other turn once he starts to recover, and slowly burn him to death, throwing in a random Force every one and a while.
1-0
He has no early plays and I stick an Obelisk before he can get his fourth mana for his Talus Paladin I wrath and kill him in about 8 turns.
2-0
Round 2: Mono Green Elves 2-0-0
Game one he sticks and early Elvish Archdruid followed by a Garruk and another Archdruid. I couldn't find the second white mana for the Day of Judgment.
0-1
Game two is easy; I wrath once on his early plays, and hit a Destructive Force after scrying with Crystal Ball. I hit an Obelisk and finish him after him after wrathing 4 more times... Ridiculous.
1-1
Game three comes down to the wire, me being at 2 life and finally hitting the Force. I drop Obelisk and kill his mana dudes. I wait for him to recover and drop a Joraga Warcaller and a Joraga Treespeaker followed by an Overwhelming Stampede (?!?!?), with I bolt and give -2/-2 in response on the Warcaller. He swings two, and I Condemn. I finish him with the Obelisk after ensuring victory after a Destructive Force.
2-1
Round 3: Naya/Mythic 2-1-0
Turn 1: Fetchland, Noble Hierarch
Turn 2: Cobra, Fetchland, KotR
Turn 3: Cobra, Fetchland, Sovereigns, Swings KoTR for 17
Was on the draw and didn't get turn 2 Chalice for turn 3 DoJ. Meh...
0-1
It gets close, but Elspeth is incredibly irritating, and almost killed me by herself + early beats. Luckily he didn't get the god draw, and I wrath a couple times. After FINALLY killing Elspeth, he has two lands out, I realized I tapped out, he drops two Hierarchs getting 2 Vengevines hitting me for one overkill. Apparently Planeswalkers are bad for this deck...
Just for a side note, my sideboard was HORRIBLE, and not the list I posted above. Luckily I had 4 Pithing Needle, considering games one and four I fought off Garruks, and game 3 I fought Elspeth.
0-2
Round 4: Mono Green Aggro Something 3-1
Game one I wrath and he has no recovery what so ever... Whatever.
1-0
Game two is pretty ridiculous after seeing two 3/1 creatures (Some bad shrouded card for 3 mana..., honestly his deck was not that good), which both got Giant Growths. I go down to five, scrying twice with Crystal Ball, finding nothing both times, and topdeck a sideboarded Kaldera Hellion. He once again has no recovery.
2-0
Planeswalkers are hard to deal with and I am glad for the NOW 4 Oblivion Rings in the Sideboard. This deck has serious potential, but needs to be able to do something against the incredible power of Mythic Conscription.
4 Knight Of The Reliquary
4 Lotus Cobra
4 Birds Of Paradise
4 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Dauntless Escort
4 Destructive Force
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Gideon Jura
4 Arid Mesa
4 Plains
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Sejiri Steppe
3 Raging Ravine
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Autumns Veil
4 Celestial Purge
4 Path To Exile
3 Pithing Needle
The Birds and Cobras can provide very explosive starts, and the Cobras are especially potent with KotR and the Titan. Dauntless Escorts can be sacced to protect your creatures from D-Force or a DoJ, but that's only a fallback. The real goal is to get out a Primeval or Knight early, drop Sejiri Steppes to protect your mana critters and then cast Force on your second main. Both Knight and Primeval survive if unattended, so you are left in a virtually unbeatable position, and as an added benefit to the high creature count, you stand a good chance of winning even without Force, either through Garruk overrunning, Primeval pooping out manlands or 8/8 Knights making a mess of things. Initial testing has shown Ajani Vengeant to be lackluster in this deck. Gideon is testing well, but I have yet to try Elspeth and I have a feeling she would be good as well. I'd still like a bit more removal, as it still feels lacking, but I don't know what I could take out.
The sideboard needs some work, but the reasoning for each card should be apparent, with the exception of Path which is there for Mythic Conscription and the like. Again, any criticism is welcome.
360-cube - Suggestions welcome!
I especially like how KOTR works with the new wildfire.
Great results Cakins, thanks for the post.
BTW, how are all those Borderposts working out for you? I know they're great post-Force, but do you find they slow down your early game much?
I'm still pretty sure yours is the build closes to what I want to play, though I think I'd like to fit in my own Elspeths, Vengeatns and maybe Garruks somewhow.
I feel you there. My buddy plays Naya Conscrip, and the only way to stop it is to put Vengevines on the bottom of the deck, kill everything with a DoJ, or hope to God that he gets a terrible draw. Every game was like that, but I'm playing with Jace Beleren's, giving us the draw power that I, more importantly, need. If you can get Jaces in there, and sit on a couple of removal spells or mana leaks, it's smooth sailing from there.
DCI Level 1 Judge
Man I wish I could have taken notes, there were some funny things I did last night with Pithing Needles... On topic, the Borderposts really do not slow down my early game, because I only play a max of three during the first couple turns. Then I move onto a Khalni Gem, double kicked Everflowing Chalice, or DoJ. The Chalice is really the only early game I have other than creature control anyways.
Yeah, I think another kill condition would be nice to fit in, I just don't know what to take out.
I am seriously considering Relic of Progenitus in the sideboard because of Vengevine being such a pain. DoJ has nothing on him. Also, I am leaning towards a blue splash, because of countermagic protection, draw power, and Tezzeret to get the Relic and the Needle. Maybe actually having my good sideboard with me will win me the matchup. I hope so, because killing planeswalkers with Obelisk is no fun
I just noticed that with the Borderposts, almost exactly half of your 'lands' are CIPT, and having played 4C Cascade, I know what a pain that can be, especially when you topdeck them.
Also I'm not sure what I'd pull for Planeswalkers either.. it would be a difficult call.
Another thing I'd like to try and squeeze in is Voltaic Key. I doubt I'd run four Obelisks, but I just think the temptation of Khalni Gem + Voltaic Key + Obelisk of Alara would be too much to resist.
Me and my friend tested Voltaic Key in my current list, and in a mono brown list. We found that it was so reliant on other cards, and all it ever did was make more mana, which we have never had a problem with in this deck. It was occasionally decent being Obelisks 5-7, but most of the time you just want to stall and dig for Obelisks and Forces as long as you can, instead of helping them when you get them.
I am planning on taking notes on FNM with a two of inclusion of Voltaic Key as a test, mostly because almost everyone I know that has seen me play this deck wants me to run it.
I'm still waiting for my Forces to come in, so I think this week I'm going to be Johnny Rogue and play my old Cascade list, but once I get them, I'll probably copy your build, if not go -2 something +2 Ajani Vengeant
Should I keep blue, or switch to white?
7 Forest
7 Mountain
4 Plains
2 Rootbound Crag
2 Sunpetal Grove
1 Raging Ravine
3 Sejiri Steppe
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Primeval Titan
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Planeswalkers : 2
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
Instants and Sorceries : 14
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Explore
4 Destructive Force
4 Growth Spasm
2 Firewild Borderpost
1 Awakening Zone
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Day of Judgment
2 Roiling Terrain
2 Naturalize
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Combust
3 Autumn's Veil
I added one each of Titan and Force because I was able to acquire them, and 2 Titans and 3 Forces just wasn't working at all. I decided to splash white for the ridiculous Knight of the Reliquary. This card is ridiculous in a deck like this one that blows up it's own lands. I added the Bloodbraids because honestly I have no idea why I didn't have them in the original maindeck. They will always either hit a KotR, Lightning Bolt, or mana accel. Lastly, I replaced the cultivates with growth spasms because, as the guy sitting next to me pointed out, they accel me the same amount without clogging my hand up with lands, and "no one will waste a bolt on a 0/1".
Please tell me what you guys and girls think, I'd love some input on this deck.
Yeah I mentioned wanting a blue splash, and now I am going to have to come up with a list for it. I want to look for a new kill condition also. So far I have been lucky not getting into a fight with O-Ring or Pulse... I will after FNM tomorrow with a full tournament report and what I think should be inclusions.