Proliferate up Chalice and then Destructive Force Sweep the board for the win. Inferno Titan and Koth win games, too. Galvanoth cheaty-faces burn spells into play, and Chandra Ablaze turns Burst Lightnings kicked for free, plus she late-game wins with casting out of your graveyard in one turn with Proliferate. Hi-Ya!
Well first of all burst lightning from chandra still has the additional kicker cost. Second is actually an into play tapped mountain in a monored deck especially with three tec edges. Galvanoth is a 5 mana 3/3 that dies to your opponents removal along with your destructive force. Your destructive force turns off your valakut. just a list of things you may want to consider
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Circular Logic Example: You're splashing a color to fix your colors so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you.
Now's a good time to try re-working one of the many Koth/Metalcraft/Proliferate Red decks.
Galvanoth is bad in a deck that has no way to control what it reveals, and Chandra Ablaze is just bad. I would try lowering your curve a bit and experiment with artifacts that you haven't yet tried.
Yeah, I like the Galvanoth just for the fact that he accelerates burning out the control player slightly. If he gets one sorcery he's kind of payed for himself. I know he dies to Force, though- the idea is just to win after Force anyways, he's plan B.
I perused the entire Big Red forum thread, and a couple people said they'd gladly deal with "Come into play Tapped' with Valakut because of the rare game where it killed a jace, or a few creatures, making it worth it. I don't know about Tectonic Edge, and will probably drop it.
If they counter Destructive Force, an active Valakut is a pretty good secondary against Control. I think it should work.
The question becomes, is this deck or some variation worth building?
max, i think this is one of your projects you will end up dropping, its looking pretty weak right now destructive force and chandra both seem terrible in here
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Circular Logic Example: You're splashing a color to fix your colors so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you.
3RR for a "free" Bolt is hardly paying for itself. It's only a 3/3. With no way to actively control the top cards of your library, he's pretty mediocre.
Mox Opal
Contagion Clasp
Sphere of the Suns
Everflowing Chalice
Ratchet Bomb
Phyrexian Revoker
Tumble Magnet
Throne of Geth
Voltaic Key
These are all potentially-playable artifacts in this deck. Even Wall of Tanglecord could see some SB action. I'd really encourage you to explore most or all of these options.
Destructive Force is just okay. It's probably better in the sideboard, if it should be in your 75 at all.
I disagreewith your analysis of Destructive Force. If I play a chalice, I destroy all of my opponent's lands. I cripple Valakut heartily, and aggro basically says "Let's go to game 2."
Koth, Chandra, and Inferno Titan survive the force. What's more, Koth keeps up pressure enormously if I table just one mountain, and Chandra lets me keep casting burn even when I have zero lands on the field.
I think, I want to think, that the Galvanoth is good enough, but perhaps he isn't.
Mox Opal
Contagion Clasp
Sphere of the Suns
Everflowing Chalice
Ratchet Bomb
Phyrexian Revoker
Tumble Magnet
Throne of Geth
Voltaic Key
Mox Opal isn't too necessary when I already have a lot of mana production. I don't need to color-fix, which strikes me as the main appeal. I would rather be holding a Lightning Bolt in my hand.
Clasp is in the deck.
Sphere is the same argument as Mox Opal
Chalice is in the deck
Ratchet Bomb is in the sideboard
Revoker is, too
Tumble Magnet is unnecessary- we have 15 kill spells.
Throne of Geth would be better if we had good sac outlets, but we need our Clasps and Chalices.
Voltaic Key seems low-power without Trinket Mage. I need to punch people really hard with this deck, or I peter out and lose.
What deck does DForce beat that the already on-table Titan/other threat doesn't? There isn't one, which is why three is a ridiculously high number of copies of that card.
Just go play some games with the deck and actually analyze what is happening. Sure, maybe the DForce sped up your kill, but it most likely wasn't necessary. If you get to the point where you 1) have 5RR, 2) have an on-board kill that survives DForce, and 3) have DForce that will resolve, you don't actually need the DForce.
With the artifacts, look at the synergies more carefully, as opposed to their lack of brute force. Throne would be better if you had sac outlets, yes, which is why Mox Opal is one of the suggestions. Voltaic Key is similarly synergistic with the Throne itself, and Clasp. Having KOTH's emblem is a game win. These all let you achieve it faster than anything else.
The point of my list was to encourage thought, not to say "MDilthey, these are the only artifacts you're allowed to play." Shooting them down without trying them or even understanding why I suggested them leads me to think that there's not much point in posting further in this thread. If we cannot have real discussion, what are we here for? Our e-penises?
My issue: What does this do better than machine red? Machine Red - http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=276391. Updating M.R. with MBS cards would probably produce a better Dforce deck than this and atm its a worse Big red list.
IDK, Throne of Geth is too powerful a card to overlook, and proliferating Red PW's is what M.R. does best.
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~Intelligence is Bliss; Ignorance is Denial.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
What deck does DForce beat that the already on-table Titan/other threat doesn't? There isn't one, which is why three is a ridiculously high number of copies of that card.
Just go play some games with the deck and actually analyze what is happening. Sure, maybe the DForce sped up your kill, but it most likely wasn't necessary. If you get to the point where you 1) have 5RR, 2) have an on-board kill that survives DForce, and 3) have DForce that will resolve, you don't actually need the DForce.
With the artifacts, look at the synergies more carefully, as opposed to their lack of brute force. Throne would be better if you had sac outlets, yes, which is why Mox Opal is one of the suggestions. Voltaic Key is similarly synergistic with the Throne itself, and Clasp. Having KOTH's emblem is a game win. These all let you achieve it faster than anything else.
The point of my list was to encourage thought, not to say "MDilthey, these are the only artifacts you're allowed to play." Shooting them down without trying them or even understanding why I suggested them leads me to think that there's not much point in posting further in this thread. If we cannot have real discussion, what are we here for? Our e-penises?
Ok, I hear you. Rather than shoot down your suggestions, I meant to offer the reasons I didn't include them in the list. However, I'll have you know that my e-***** is enormous.
Metal red is... Ok, I feel like with all the mana acceleration of Koth and Chalice, Destructive Force is a prime card for mono-red. Additionally, it wreaks havoc on the Control matchup, which is the point.
Using Chandra's +1, we can also kill titans with the 5 damage from D-force, which is nice. Even swinging with a 4/4 Mountain and having their primeval block it, and then D-forcing in the second main phase is a neat trick. Idk if it's neat enough, it does need testing.
Repeat, it does need testing.
But it is a neat thought experiment. Now, as for Machine Red, it's doubtless a good deck, but the Geth combo is a little self-sacrificing, so if I don't need it, I won't use it. I thought alot about Chapin's metal red deck and watched games with it on youtube, and watched States for it, and didn't find it meta-breaking, so this alternatively attacks lands. There was a time when D-force was a top competitor, and with Slagstorm in standard, that time could repeat itself.
4 cards that are all decent, 2 are cheap, one is dbl prolif, and last one is lux cannon 5 and 6 (which IMO is better than DForce if you already have Slagstorm in the list). This is only referring to cards that interact with Throne of Geth.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
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2x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Inferno Titan
Spells:
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Burst Lightning
4x Slagstorm
3x Destructive Force
4x Koth of the Hammer
2x Chandra Ablaze
Artifacts:
4x Everflowing Chalice
3x Contagion Clasp
1x Contagion Engine
Land:
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
23x Mountain
2x Brittle Effigy
4x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Ratchet Bomb
4x Combust
2x Basilisk Collar
Proliferate up Chalice and then Destructive Force Sweep the board for the win. Inferno Titan and Koth win games, too. Galvanoth cheaty-faces burn spells into play, and Chandra Ablaze turns Burst Lightnings kicked for free, plus she late-game wins with casting out of your graveyard in one turn with Proliferate. Hi-Ya!
Galvanoth is bad in a deck that has no way to control what it reveals, and Chandra Ablaze is just bad. I would try lowering your curve a bit and experiment with artifacts that you haven't yet tried.
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
I perused the entire Big Red forum thread, and a couple people said they'd gladly deal with "Come into play Tapped' with Valakut because of the rare game where it killed a jace, or a few creatures, making it worth it. I don't know about Tectonic Edge, and will probably drop it.
If they counter Destructive Force, an active Valakut is a pretty good secondary against Control. I think it should work.
The question becomes, is this deck or some variation worth building?
Bryce doesn't like Chandra Ablaze.
Mox Opal
Contagion Clasp
Sphere of the Suns
Everflowing Chalice
Ratchet Bomb
Phyrexian Revoker
Tumble Magnet
Throne of Geth
Voltaic Key
These are all potentially-playable artifacts in this deck. Even Wall of Tanglecord could see some SB action. I'd really encourage you to explore most or all of these options.
Destructive Force is just okay. It's probably better in the sideboard, if it should be in your 75 at all.
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
Koth, Chandra, and Inferno Titan survive the force. What's more, Koth keeps up pressure enormously if I table just one mountain, and Chandra lets me keep casting burn even when I have zero lands on the field.
I think, I want to think, that the Galvanoth is good enough, but perhaps he isn't.
Mox Opal isn't too necessary when I already have a lot of mana production. I don't need to color-fix, which strikes me as the main appeal. I would rather be holding a Lightning Bolt in my hand.
Clasp is in the deck.
Sphere is the same argument as Mox Opal
Chalice is in the deck
Ratchet Bomb is in the sideboard
Revoker is, too
Tumble Magnet is unnecessary- we have 15 kill spells.
Throne of Geth would be better if we had good sac outlets, but we need our Clasps and Chalices.
Voltaic Key seems low-power without Trinket Mage. I need to punch people really hard with this deck, or I peter out and lose.
Just go play some games with the deck and actually analyze what is happening. Sure, maybe the DForce sped up your kill, but it most likely wasn't necessary. If you get to the point where you 1) have 5RR, 2) have an on-board kill that survives DForce, and 3) have DForce that will resolve, you don't actually need the DForce.
With the artifacts, look at the synergies more carefully, as opposed to their lack of brute force. Throne would be better if you had sac outlets, yes, which is why Mox Opal is one of the suggestions. Voltaic Key is similarly synergistic with the Throne itself, and Clasp. Having KOTH's emblem is a game win. These all let you achieve it faster than anything else.
The point of my list was to encourage thought, not to say "MDilthey, these are the only artifacts you're allowed to play." Shooting them down without trying them or even understanding why I suggested them leads me to think that there's not much point in posting further in this thread. If we cannot have real discussion, what are we here for? Our e-penises?
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
IDK, Throne of Geth is too powerful a card to overlook, and proliferating Red PW's is what M.R. does best.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
Ok, I hear you. Rather than shoot down your suggestions, I meant to offer the reasons I didn't include them in the list. However, I'll have you know that my e-***** is enormous.
Metal red is... Ok, I feel like with all the mana acceleration of Koth and Chalice, Destructive Force is a prime card for mono-red. Additionally, it wreaks havoc on the Control matchup, which is the point.
Using Chandra's +1, we can also kill titans with the 5 damage from D-force, which is nice. Even swinging with a 4/4 Mountain and having their primeval block it, and then D-forcing in the second main phase is a neat trick. Idk if it's neat enough, it does need testing.
Repeat, it does need testing.
But it is a neat thought experiment. Now, as for Machine Red, it's doubtless a good deck, but the Geth combo is a little self-sacrificing, so if I don't need it, I won't use it. I thought alot about Chapin's metal red deck and watched games with it on youtube, and watched States for it, and didn't find it meta-breaking, so this alternatively attacks lands. There was a time when D-force was a top competitor, and with Slagstorm in standard, that time could repeat itself.
Ever-building,
mdilthey
Myr Sire
Ichor Wellspring
Core prowler
Spine of Ish Sah
4 cards that are all decent, 2 are cheap, one is dbl prolif, and last one is lux cannon 5 and 6 (which IMO is better than DForce if you already have Slagstorm in the list). This is only referring to cards that interact with Throne of Geth.
IF Sphere of the Suns is used in conjunction with Mox opal, odd deck techs like Frantic Salvage might work out.
There's alot going on for machine's right now.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.