So, a friend of mine challenged me to break a certain card, a bad card. He said that he wanted to see Archmage Ascension to be a focal point in the deck and he wants it to beat his Valakut Ramp deck... This seems impossible but I think with proliferate it could work pretty well.
The main idea is to sort of have an Architect beatdown build, but the heavy hitters are 1-ofs since with proliferation the ascension comes online fairly quickly (I hope) and will let me grab the cards I need.
Steady Progress and ingenuity are there for instant speed draw so I get counters on the ascension on there turn.
Tell me what you all think and help me make this deck semi-competitive!
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Thanks to Argetlam from Hakai Studios for the awesome sig.
No matter what you do, an archmage ascension deck will be slow so if you need to beat valukut you need to make sure you have the tools to stop him. Add in 8 counters minimum, you have no surefire way of dealing with a titan if it resolves.
Don't work too hard to break archmage. The tools you use to activate it should be useful on their own. Also you need an alternative to archmage that has similar synergies.
I would play preordain and spreading seas since they both add a counter to archmage and further your goal and I would consider strongly playing wall of omens and luminarch ascension.
I think the Architect-ramp here is quite undeveloped and unnecessary. Also, if you're going to have a tutor-machine you want to splash a second color, one that gives you the tutorable answers that blue doesn't have. Red with Molten Psyche, as suggested, sounds interesting. Also, do yourself a favor and get a third Jace Beleren, you really, really need it.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Thanks for the advice so far everyone, I think I'll try to go the UR route and take out the architect package. And about that 3rd Jace, I had a chance to Friday but got a Goblin Guide instead because I'm playing Kuldotha Goblins right now.
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I think the best way to use Archmage Ascension is as a card in a control deck to tie it all together, because if you have it activated, you can search your library for a response to anything your opponents play, I think this card could actually do very well in a control deck.
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"I am the man who stands in darkness, but still manages to bring light to the world."
So, a friend of mine challenged me to break a certain card, a bad card. He said that he wanted to see Archmage Ascension to be a focal point in the deck and he wants it to beat his Valakut Ramp deck... This seems impossible but I think with proliferate it could work pretty well.
Well this part is easy. All you need is a deck that uses 3-4 Archmage Ascension and can beat Valakut Ramp? That I can do for you.
Tell me what you all think and help me make this deck semi-competitive!
Umm... What?!? Ok now your getting out there. If you whole plan is to be Val then that's cake. Being Semi-competitive is somthing altogether different. I'll still see what I can do for you though.
Every card in here is pretty useful for fighting them.
Vendetta and Clasp kill lotus cobra
Clasp gets you to your counters
Ratchet Bomb is for Avenger of Zendikars tokens
Nihil Spellbomb is for when you need a target from Trinket mage to draw a card
Memoricide is for naming titan or Avenger next
Seas draws a card as well as kills a Kut
Tectonic Edge kills Kut
Doom Blade and Vendetta(ouch) Can kill a titan before it swings for the other 2 kuts
Effigy can kill a titan or whatever and is tutorable with Trinket mage
There are numerous ways for you to get the necessary quest counters on Archmage Ascension. Thrummingbird is my favorite since it also puts additional counters on Jace and can be tapped by Grand Architect for mana.
But in my opinion, if you can't find an efficient way to get counters on the card without having to play by its rules, then it's not worth playing.
If you're able to draw an insane amount of cards each turn, sufficient to activate the Ascension, then you should already be winning the game without the Ascension. By the time you have your sixth quest counter, you are already miles ahead of your opponent in terms of cards drawn.
If all of those cards you drew weren't sufficient to win you the game, what good will tutoring do you? What are the odds that you didn't already draw all the lands, countermagic, removal, and win cons that you need?
Archmage Ascension is very different from the other cards in the Ascension cycle. It's paradoxical: the effect is powerful, but it makes up for a deficit that its deck lacks.
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Megatog201's decklist is fine tuned to specifically crush Valakut Ramp, and I'd recommend you follow his line of thinking. Regniwekim also has some good ideas, but I think that UB would be better than UR if you're wanting to specifically take down a Valakut Ramp deck.
Using Megatog201's decklist as a starting point, I'd recommend that you incorporate more win-cons. I might suggest Sphinx of Jwar Isle as a 1 or 2 of, for a start.
Archmage Ascension is just to slow. Its a terrible card, for it to be good you really need it active T2 or T3 getting it active T6 or 7 is just letting them when till you can start picking what you want to draw.. you'd be better off using Vess as she will always do what you need and doesn't require a whole deck.. Its neither here nor there. As a wincon Sphinx is a beast tho..
all you really have to do is run regular UW control and just lose Condemn and Journey for Archmage and Leyline of Sanctity mainboard and poof, bye valakut. after board you throw in Flashfreeze and bigger poof.
I mean, if we REALLY want to hose Valakut, that's easy enough in blue. Hosing it with Archmage? Sure I guess just add it to a deck we already know hoses Valakut.
If we want to abuse a tutor card then we need an immense combo. As others have said, I don't know if there exists one we couldn't get simply by just running the cards.
How about a Fog deck with Elixir of Immortality. You never win, you just have a crapton of life at the end of the round. Very late game, Ascension could be searching up a Fog or Elixir every turn.
run blue black control ascension if you want to take his deck out use plenty of countermagic draw ie preodrain and baby jace for the ascension. then memoricide the primevaltitans out of the deckand win out with creeping tarpits. its not hard to build a deck running blue that wil wreck valakut o btw tectonic edge is your best friend and spreading seas
actually heres a deck list
Fairly Easy Concept Jace 1.0, Seagate oracle, and preordain for your card Draw. Search for Memoricides and wurmcoils save counter magic for primeval titan or anything that may kill you. Memoricide primeeval titan and that other win condition it uses that pops out creature tokens. once you get the wurmcoils running it wont be ale to hurt you since you have lifelink and its win condition is damage.......
I like the idea of U/B for Memoricide tutors against his titans, but also we could snag a singleton Sadistic Sacrament if we wanted to undo ALL of his wincons. I know it's BBB...but if we can tutor anything we want, and the tutor is activated by massive card-draw, we'll probably hit enough dual lands and/or swamps to make it rain deck gutting cards like Sad Sac and Memoricide.
It's such a shame Compulsion (or something like it) because some form of enchantress build would be sweet (though, now that I think about it, Standard completely lacks any form of Enchantress shell.)
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The fog idea sounds fun, fogging and spreading seas'ing the Valakut means he straight up can't win. I feel like a new-age fog build using 10 (not sure if that would be the right #) counterspells with an elixir of immortality could work well.
But I feel like I need proliferate regardless of how long I can last, because even with an immense amount of card draw, I can't get a fog effect and the multi-draws every turn. Anyone have any suggestions for a proliferate package?
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Thanks to Argetlam from Hakai Studios for the awesome sig.
It just occurred to me: EnClavECRyPtoloGiSt. It's an early card drawer (even if you have to discard) and using counters, it benefits from Proliferate. Maybe you could go the proliferate way with Chalices and Lux Cannon.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
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4 Steady Progress
3 Jace's Ingenuity
2 Jace Beleren
4 Temple Bell
4 Kraken Hatchling
4 Grand Architect
4 Augury Owl
3 Contagion Clasp
1 Platinum Angel
1 Platinum Empirion
1 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
4 Halimar Depths
20 Island
The main idea is to sort of have an Architect beatdown build, but the heavy hitters are 1-ofs since with proliferation the ascension comes online fairly quickly (I hope) and will let me grab the cards I need.
Steady Progress and ingenuity are there for instant speed draw so I get counters on the ascension on there turn.
Tell me what you all think and help me make this deck semi-competitive!
4 Temple Bell
4 Jace Beleren
4 Voltaic Key
4 Molten Psyche
4 Thrummingbird
4 Trinket Mage
4 Brittle Effigy
4 Contagion Clasp
Maybe find something that you can abuse the search library function with, but I don't think anything like that exists.
Using Red also gives you access to Tunnel Ignus. The doombringer of Valakut.
No matter what you do, an archmage ascension deck will be slow so if you need to beat valukut you need to make sure you have the tools to stop him. Add in 8 counters minimum, you have no surefire way of dealing with a titan if it resolves.
Don't work too hard to break archmage. The tools you use to activate it should be useful on their own. Also you need an alternative to archmage that has similar synergies.
I would play preordain and spreading seas since they both add a counter to archmage and further your goal and I would consider strongly playing wall of omens and luminarch ascension.
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Read my second post.
Well this part is easy. All you need is a deck that uses 3-4 Archmage Ascension and can beat Valakut Ramp? That I can do for you.
Umm... What?!? Ok now your getting out there. If you whole plan is to be Val then that's cake. Being Semi-competitive is somthing altogether different. I'll still see what I can do for you though.
4 Spreading Seas
4 Preordain
4 Memoricide
4 Doom Blade
3 Vendetta
2 Brittle Effigy
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Jace Beleren
4 Tectonic Edge
4 Halimar Depths
14 other lands
Every card in here is pretty useful for fighting them.
Vendetta and Clasp kill lotus cobra
Clasp gets you to your counters
Ratchet Bomb is for Avenger of Zendikars tokens
Nihil Spellbomb is for when you need a target from Trinket mage to draw a card
Memoricide is for naming titan or Avenger next
Seas draws a card as well as kills a Kut
Tectonic Edge kills Kut
Doom Blade and Vendetta(ouch) Can kill a titan before it swings for the other 2 kuts
Effigy can kill a titan or whatever and is tutorable with Trinket mage
Try this and tell me how it does.
But in my opinion, if you can't find an efficient way to get counters on the card without having to play by its rules, then it's not worth playing.
If you're able to draw an insane amount of cards each turn, sufficient to activate the Ascension, then you should already be winning the game without the Ascension. By the time you have your sixth quest counter, you are already miles ahead of your opponent in terms of cards drawn.
If all of those cards you drew weren't sufficient to win you the game, what good will tutoring do you? What are the odds that you didn't already draw all the lands, countermagic, removal, and win cons that you need?
Archmage Ascension is very different from the other cards in the Ascension cycle. It's paradoxical: the effect is powerful, but it makes up for a deficit that its deck lacks.
***
Megatog201's decklist is fine tuned to specifically crush Valakut Ramp, and I'd recommend you follow his line of thinking. Regniwekim also has some good ideas, but I think that UB would be better than UR if you're wanting to specifically take down a Valakut Ramp deck.
Using Megatog201's decklist as a starting point, I'd recommend that you incorporate more win-cons. I might suggest Sphinx of Jwar Isle as a 1 or 2 of, for a start.
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Modern:
UWThe End ForetoldUW
BUR Thraximundar
RBGMy Trades!UWX
Sea gate Oracle for a body that draws another card. Spreading Seas is a must to hose valakut, same with a full 4 Tectonic Edge mainboarded.
If we want to abuse a tutor card then we need an immense combo. As others have said, I don't know if there exists one we couldn't get simply by just running the cards.
I know this reply was unfocused, sorry.
actually heres a deck list
Valakut destroyer:
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Mana Leak
4 Flashfreeze
4 Preordain
3 Memoricide
4 Spreading Seas
3 Archmage Ascension
3 Jace Beleren
4 DarkSlick Shores
4 Creeping Tarpits
3 Swamps
4 Tectonic Edge
10 Islands
Fairly Easy Concept Jace 1.0, Seagate oracle, and preordain for your card Draw. Search for Memoricides and wurmcoils save counter magic for primeval titan or anything that may kill you. Memoricide primeeval titan and that other win condition it uses that pops out creature tokens. once you get the wurmcoils running it wont be ale to hurt you since you have lifelink and its win condition is damage.......
keep inmind this is for just against valakut
UKarn's Architect0
still good card draw though
UKarn's Architect0
But I feel like I need proliferate regardless of how long I can last, because even with an immense amount of card draw, I can't get a fog effect and the multi-draws every turn. Anyone have any suggestions for a proliferate package?