WCE isn't 'ruling Standard' because people just bounce it with JTMS and force you to waste your tempo replaying it, and then maybe they counter it also. That is also why it's not anywhere near the best card in SoM.
Well, I wouldn't go so far as saying it's nowhere near the top of Scars. I already mentioned that Sword of Body and Mind is on the top for me, but Wurmcoil Engine is definitely hardcore. It's a great finisher that can fit in any deck.
And, it'll be here for quite some time after JTMS and the Titans rotate out.
1. Fast Lands (multiple formats impacted, and an auto-include in most 2+ color decks)
2. Wurmcoil Engine
3. Ratchet Bomb
4. Koth of the Hammer
5. Mimic Vat
6. Masticore
7. Elspeth Tirel (just hasn't found a home)
8. Venser, the Sojourner (see above)
9. Galvanic Blast (especially once all of Scars block is released)
10. Memnite (will probably move up after next set is released)
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I'm going with Galvanic Blast, Venser, and Belugatron (Wurmcoil)
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"It's crazy if you think about it. The God of the universe -creator of pine needles and nitrogen, galaxies and E-minor- loves us with a radical, unconditional, self-sacrificing love. And what is our response? We go to church, sing songs, and try not to cuss." -Chan
1. Fast Lands (multiple formats impacted, and an auto-include in most 2+ color decks)
2. Wurmcoil Engine
3. Ratchet Bomb
4. Koth of the Hammer
5. Mimic Vat
6. Masticore
7. Elspeth Tirel (just hasn't found a home)
8. Venser, the Sojourner (see above)
9. Galvanic Blast (especially once all of Scars block is released)
10. Memnite (will probably move up after next set is released)
The only thing I don't like about this list, is that Skinrender should be #6 at minimum, and Masticore taken off that list entirely. Maybe even in the top 5 with some rotations.
No one understands how ridiculous that card is yet, everyone complained about Bloodbraid Elf into removal, then we get it in a single card and no one is playing it anywhere.
Skinrender is no Bloodbraid elf LOL. Skinrender looked good on paper but failed to succeed in practice. There are currently no 3/3 or 4/4 creatures that matter for skinrender to shine. If skinrender was actual removal it'd be a different story.
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Skinrender is no Bloodbraid elf LOL. Skinrender looked good on paper but failed to succeed in practice.
Skinrender is the best variant of Flame Tongue Kavu we have ever recieved. In a format full of titans it definitely does not have that much of an impact I admit. Yet it's pretty amazing that you can trade a titan with it, or just outright kill it combined with a Jace, and the less crazy and absolute truth of the matter: the card halts aggro and gives you card advantage like no other.
This card is a beast, I guarantee it's only a matter of time until people realize it.
WCE isn't 'ruling Standard' because people just bounce it with JTMS and force you to waste your tempo replaying it, and then maybe they counter it also. That is also why it's not anywhere near the best card in SoM.
Ah yes, the old "gets bounced by everything" argument.
Ah yes, the old "gets bounced by everything" argument.
While I agree with you, that and "dies to removal," should never be valid points. But in this meta, they are. Wizards did not set the bar for cards with the titans. No, they warped the meta to such a degree, where they are the ONLY 6 drops that see major play. Why? CA. Bouncing it is a bad idea, and killing it still leaves you up cards. Wormcoil engine only does this as it dies. And in a format where approx 37% of the meta runs Jace? He frequently does, yes, just sit in your hand and never swing against control.
While I agree with you, that and "dies to removal," should never be valid points. But in this meta, they are. Wizards did not set the bar for cards with the titans. No, they warped the meta to such a degree, where they are the ONLY 6 drops that see major play. Why? CA. Bouncing it is a bad idea, and killing it still leaves you up cards. Wormcoil engine only does this as it dies. And in a format where approx 37% of the meta runs Jace? He frequently does, yes, just sit in your hand and never swing against control.
I have to agree with this 100%, Every time I played against a wurmcoil engine i've either bounced it, or it just sat there and couldn't afford to swing.
Don't misunderstand me. I agree that WCE does not warp the format. I think that he guides or drives the format but, sadly, in Jace 2.0 we find a tidy answer to the artifact titan. (And that's not sour grapes; I own 4 Jace 2.0s.)Morevoer, the "answer" to WCE just happens to be versatile and good against most anything.
In a vacuum, WCE is a godsend and an amazing card. Maybe I'm just saying that because I remember the day that Ice Age was relased (it was actually snowing in MA) and I remember lots of bad creatures (Yay Fyndhorn Elder!). And, from a theorycraft perspetive, WCE is huge, requires an immediate answer and alters the removal suite (or opinions thereof) of the format (DoJ just isn't that good against him).
But, yes, the "dies to everything" (or "is bounced by everything") argument doesn't hold up or, rather, it does but the answer to WCE is the answer to most of the format at large.
after playing alot of extended WCE just seems really bad when he gets bounced or better yet he get's slave of bolas'd and your like wtf...i know he gets you life and could put someone on the clock but baneslayer seems to do the same exact thing if you wanted to argue that point. and as a finisher might as why just run jwar jwar so nobody can complain about him being bounced or doombladed
-chias
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I am petitioning for the removal of people who whine about mythic rarity. Sig this if you agree; they should just get over it. The mythic rarity serves to protect the price of rares that due to record printings are extremely lower than what they were during say, Ravnica block. Get a job.
Skinrender would be very good if the meta had more aggro involved. I think once some mid-range and aggro strategies become stronger, skinrender will be a very strong card.
I think if Metalcraft is ever viable, Carapace forger will be a very good card. It's severely underrated, and 2 mana 4/4 creatures are never anything to laugh at regardless of what you play. That's not far off from Goyf, and if you're playing a control deck with lots of Artifacts, that could be pretty troubling for an opponent.
Right now, it sucks because 90% of the artifacts in SOM suck, especially the artifacts listed below the 3 mana curve, so his metalcraft is never that threatening.
Wurmcoil is great.
I think Venser is very good actually. He's not a jace by any means, but in a good UW control deck, once he lands, he's a tough card for lots of decks to handle. Koth is the same, great card, but needs a better home. Elspeth just doesn't work that great. You never want 3 1/1 creatures on turn 5, unless you're running WW with anthem effects, but at that point, you don't play 5 drop planeswalkers anyway.
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Skinrender would be very good if the meta had more aggro involved. I think once some mid-range and aggro strategies become stronger, skinrender will be a very strong card.
I think if Metalcraft is ever viable, Carapace forger will be a very good card. It's severely underrated, and 2 mana 4/4 creatures are never anything to laugh at regardless of what you play. That's not far off from Goyf, and if you're playing a control deck with lots of Artifacts, that could be pretty troubling for an opponent.
Right now, it sucks because 90% of the artifacts in SOM suck, especially the artifacts listed below the 3 mana curve, so his metalcraft is never that threatening.
Wurmcoil is great.
I think Venser is very good actually. He's not a jace by any means, but in a good UW control deck, once he lands, he's a tough card for lots of decks to handle. Koth is the same, great card, but needs a better home. Elspeth just doesn't work that great. You never want 3 1/1 creatures on turn 5, unless you're running WW with anthem effects, but at that point, you don't play 5 drop planeswalkers anyway.
Agree with all of this.
Regarding Skinny, it just goes to show how much a meta can dictate a card's utility. The guy is practically Flametongue Kavu. Skins does see some play but I agree that, if aggro makes a surge, we'll see more of him.
For those of you that haven't seen the 30+ minute Rosewater interview (there's a link to it in the Rumor Mill threads), he makes a point to discuss how blocks evolve (he basically said this to illustrate his point that Infect is not playable competitively now but will be more so as the block develops) and I think Metalcraft will get nasty. I don't think it's a stretch to liken Forger to Leech; after all, people were loathe to replace Goyf with Leech.
Venser is only going to get better. Check out the MODO decks from block; Venser drives one of the 3-4 major archetypes.
if skinrender could distribute the 3 -1/-1's id like him alot more
-chias
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I am petitioning for the removal of people who whine about mythic rarity. Sig this if you agree; they should just get over it. The mythic rarity serves to protect the price of rares that due to record printings are extremely lower than what they were during say, Ravnica block. Get a job.
Just figured with all the hate on the set, we better remind ourselves it's not all bad. Give a top whatever list if you like.
It needs to be pointed out that the player community, by and large, are whiny and utterly unpleasable. Scars has added a number of new options and staples for standard, and is a lot of fun in limited.
At any rate, I think the big sleeper was Genesis Wave. The potency and effectiveness of this card in this meta is undeniable.
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Petitioning for the removal of crybaby sigs. Sig this if you hate whiners.
Currently Playing: UW UW Control WR Tempered Steel GR Valakut Ramp G Elves GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
1- Fast Lands
2- Ratchet Bomb
3- Wurmcoil Engine (It woud be awesome in a jaceless meta)
4- Venser (See above)
5- Skittles (5 mana regenerating 8/4 with haste?)
Overall:
1- Mox Opal
2- Ratchet Bomb
3- Sword of Body and Mind
4- Carapace Forger
5- Vedalken Certach
I also think Kuldotha Phoenix could be huge. But that's my inner Vengevine-lover talking.
This is hard, I think there are a good number of powerful cards in scars.
1- Wurmcoil engin: As an vamps player this landing is essentially an instant game loss for me. A 6/6 life link and death touch for six is OP enough without its annoying resistance to death (splitting into tokens).
2- Ezuri: 30 damage on turn 5? Ow...
3- Mimic vat- Someone is going to break this, I promise. This card scares me, seriously.
4- Ratched bomb- Again, as a vamps player...*facepalm*...
The only thing I don't like about this list, is that Skinrender should be #6 at minimum, and Masticore taken off that list entirely. Maybe even in the top 5 with some rotations.
No one understands how ridiculous that card is yet, everyone complained about Bloodbraid Elf into removal, then we get it in a single card and no one is playing it anywhere.
BBE has haste
BBE can get actual removal that will actually kill something relevant
BBE can cascade into other stuff as well, like creatures
-3/-3 is pretty weak right now, its only good against aggro weenie which is not a strong strategy now. Cascading into Pulse will kill a Titan period, and Doom Blade will kill most everything but Grave Titan/Vamps.
Well, I wouldn't go so far as saying it's nowhere near the top of Scars. I already mentioned that Sword of Body and Mind is on the top for me, but Wurmcoil Engine is definitely hardcore. It's a great finisher that can fit in any deck.
And, it'll be here for quite some time after JTMS and the Titans rotate out.
2. Wurmcoil Engine
3. Ratchet Bomb
4. Koth of the Hammer
5. Mimic Vat
6. Masticore
7. Elspeth Tirel (just hasn't found a home)
8. Venser, the Sojourner (see above)
9. Galvanic Blast (especially once all of Scars block is released)
10. Memnite (will probably move up after next set is released)
"It's crazy if you think about it. The God of the universe -creator of pine needles and nitrogen, galaxies and E-minor- loves us with a radical, unconditional, self-sacrificing love. And what is our response? We go to church, sing songs, and try not to cuss." -Chan
Avatar from Xenoninja and Sig by Skizzik_NZ
-Current Decks
:symb::symu:U/B Permission:symu::symb:
:symr:Ragin' Varments:symr:
:symr::symu:Pyrotrap/Polymorph:symu::symr:
The only thing I don't like about this list, is that Skinrender should be #6 at minimum, and Masticore taken off that list entirely. Maybe even in the top 5 with some rotations.
No one understands how ridiculous that card is yet, everyone complained about Bloodbraid Elf into removal, then we get it in a single card and no one is playing it anywhere.
RMythic RedR
RRDWR
EDH
GRBAdun OakenshieldBRG
Skinrender is the best variant of Flame Tongue Kavu we have ever recieved. In a format full of titans it definitely does not have that much of an impact I admit. Yet it's pretty amazing that you can trade a titan with it, or just outright kill it combined with a Jace, and the less crazy and absolute truth of the matter: the card halts aggro and gives you card advantage like no other.
This card is a beast, I guarantee it's only a matter of time until people realize it.
Ah yes, the old "gets bounced by everything" argument.
While I agree with you, that and "dies to removal," should never be valid points. But in this meta, they are. Wizards did not set the bar for cards with the titans. No, they warped the meta to such a degree, where they are the ONLY 6 drops that see major play. Why? CA. Bouncing it is a bad idea, and killing it still leaves you up cards. Wormcoil engine only does this as it dies. And in a format where approx 37% of the meta runs Jace? He frequently does, yes, just sit in your hand and never swing against control.
Join the Poetry Running Contest!
I have to agree with this 100%, Every time I played against a wurmcoil engine i've either bounced it, or it just sat there and couldn't afford to swing.
In a vacuum, WCE is a godsend and an amazing card. Maybe I'm just saying that because I remember the day that Ice Age was relased (it was actually snowing in MA) and I remember lots of bad creatures (Yay Fyndhorn Elder!). And, from a theorycraft perspetive, WCE is huge, requires an immediate answer and alters the removal suite (or opinions thereof) of the format (DoJ just isn't that good against him).
But, yes, the "dies to everything" (or "is bounced by everything") argument doesn't hold up or, rather, it does but the answer to WCE is the answer to most of the format at large.
lol this and even worse i tower of calamities to get rid of emperion.
on a side not i love grasp of darkness
after playing alot of extended WCE just seems really bad when he gets bounced or better yet he get's slave of bolas'd and your like wtf...i know he gets you life and could put someone on the clock but baneslayer seems to do the same exact thing if you wanted to argue that point. and as a finisher might as why just run jwar jwar so nobody can complain about him being bounced or doombladed
-chias
I think if Metalcraft is ever viable, Carapace forger will be a very good card. It's severely underrated, and 2 mana 4/4 creatures are never anything to laugh at regardless of what you play. That's not far off from Goyf, and if you're playing a control deck with lots of Artifacts, that could be pretty troubling for an opponent.
Right now, it sucks because 90% of the artifacts in SOM suck, especially the artifacts listed below the 3 mana curve, so his metalcraft is never that threatening.
Wurmcoil is great.
I think Venser is very good actually. He's not a jace by any means, but in a good UW control deck, once he lands, he's a tough card for lots of decks to handle. Koth is the same, great card, but needs a better home. Elspeth just doesn't work that great. You never want 3 1/1 creatures on turn 5, unless you're running WW with anthem effects, but at that point, you don't play 5 drop planeswalkers anyway.
2. Venser
3. Koth
4. Grand Architect (I'm predicting that he's gonna be huge in this block)
5. Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Agree with all of this.
Regarding Skinny, it just goes to show how much a meta can dictate a card's utility. The guy is practically Flametongue Kavu. Skins does see some play but I agree that, if aggro makes a surge, we'll see more of him.
For those of you that haven't seen the 30+ minute Rosewater interview (there's a link to it in the Rumor Mill threads), he makes a point to discuss how blocks evolve (he basically said this to illustrate his point that Infect is not playable competitively now but will be more so as the block develops) and I think Metalcraft will get nasty. I don't think it's a stretch to liken Forger to Leech; after all, people were loathe to replace Goyf with Leech.
Venser is only going to get better. Check out the MODO decks from block; Venser drives one of the 3-4 major archetypes.
-chias
It needs to be pointed out that the player community, by and large, are whiny and utterly unpleasable. Scars has added a number of new options and staples for standard, and is a lot of fun in limited.
At any rate, I think the big sleeper was Genesis Wave. The potency and effectiveness of this card in this meta is undeniable.
Currently Playing:
UW UW Control
WR Tempered Steel
GR Valakut Ramp
G Elves
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
1- Fast Lands
2- Ratchet Bomb
3- Wurmcoil Engine (It woud be awesome in a jaceless meta)
4- Venser (See above)
5- Skittles (5 mana regenerating 8/4 with haste?)
Overall:
1- Mox Opal
2- Ratchet Bomb
3- Sword of Body and Mind
4- Carapace Forger
5- Vedalken Certach
I also think Kuldotha Phoenix could be huge. But that's my inner Vengevine-lover talking.
1- Wurmcoil engin: As an vamps player this landing is essentially an instant game loss for me. A 6/6 life link and death touch for six is OP enough without its annoying resistance to death (splitting into tokens).
2- Ezuri: 30 damage on turn 5? Ow...
3- Mimic vat- Someone is going to break this, I promise. This card scares me, seriously.
4- Ratched bomb- Again, as a vamps player...*facepalm*...
5- The new fastlands. I loooove them.
BBE has haste
BBE can get actual removal that will actually kill something relevant
BBE can cascade into other stuff as well, like creatures
-3/-3 is pretty weak right now, its only good against aggro weenie which is not a strong strategy now. Cascading into Pulse will kill a Titan period, and Doom Blade will kill most everything but Grave Titan/Vamps.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades