So, this would probably belong in the U/W/x competitive sub forum, but due to not being allowed to speak about budgets and such, I decided to get feedback from people here. Being unable to get Jace 2.0's in my area, I wanted to make a U/W deck that focused more around the much more easily obtainable Venser.
The premise of U/W Control would stay the same, but with a bit more aggro in order to compliment Venser. This is what I'm striving for:
I'm not sure why this isn't linking to the cards, I'll try and fix it after I post. Now for some notes:
- Jace, theMind Sculptor is just too hard to get, so I'm trying to make up for it by basing it around Venser. I know Jace is better, but that's not what this deck is about.
- Sphinx of Jwar Isle could be replaced by Baneslayer Angel if you want, who I find isn't that hard to come by where I play, but I really enjoy the part of the Sphinx having Shroud and allowing me to scout the top of my deck. Common decks like Valakut and anything with heavy removal has trouble getting through the Sphinx. Plus, it's body isn't bad.
- Gideon Jura should be understood. He comes in, either destroys a creature or makes himself a target, and then I try and protect him with either Wall of Omens, Condemns, etc. If they can't handle him, he swings for six. Never cast him on turn, so you have the mana to protect him.
- Ratchet bomb takes out common threats, and can be retrieved by Sun Titan, who can grab up to two a turn with the help of Venser.
- Venser's Journal is in the deck as a one of. It helps to gain life every upkeep and has never clogged up my hand. If I was ever put in a position to discard, it's also an easy throw away. Topple that with Jace's Ingenuity and all the other draw spells and it comes in handy. Easy to sideboard out as well.
- Stoic Rebuttle's can either work as Cancel's, or if you're lucky, as a counter spell. As a side note, it's possible the opponent could believe you're running an artifact heavy deck due to it and sideboard destruction. Never a downside.
- I prefer Seachrome Coast over the Zendikar uncommon lands because it allows me to Condemn pesky Goblin Guides turn 1, lay down a Brittle Effigy, etc. But I guess to each his own.
Opinions? I'm currently making the sideboard, will post it soon.
uh why stoic rebuttal u dont have metal craft here
Thanks, I think I took what you chose, but put some control elements in my deck. I think Aether Adept is a really bad choice for the 3cc slot, at least where I play. Most people play blue/white control, RDW, or green/red ramp. Most of the times I'd be bouncing their wall of omens or a goblin guide that'll just come back the next turn.
I think Trinket Mage works better, because he'll fetch the deck for removal (brittle effigy), tricks (voltaic Key), mana acceleration (mox or chalice) and helps for metalcraft slightly for rebuttal. Even Sea Gate Oracle would be better than temporarily stalling.
I'm really digging the Lux Cannon and I think with the right build it can be a force to be reckoned with. Venser will help, but he alone isn't what will make this deck good i think
uh why stoic rebuttal u dont have metal craft here
Stoic Rebuttle because it's the same thing as a Cancel, slim chance says it could work as Metal Craft if you had 3/5 artifacts on the field, and it could make your opponent sidedeck artifact destruction if they think it's artifact based due to the spell being that and not Cancel.
I actually have been developing a similar deck. I ended up dropping Venser because he just wasn't needed. My deck list was nearly identical to start. I'll post my current list because at worst you might get an idea from it although it doesn't feature Venser anymore.
The keys to this deck are similar to yours. Keep the opponent off balance with hookmaster and adept. However I use glimmerpoint stag to recur their enters the battlefield effects.
I changed the wincon in my deck from Venser to Sun Titan. Sun Titan does a better and faster job of ending games. He can recur any of my creatures and then their effects go off. Also I use jace 1.0 because he is effectively draw 3 cards for 3 mana and recurring him with Sun Titan is pretty nasty.
Other than that have a standard removal set up. I use deprive as a late game counter. Day of Judgment is nice because even if my guys die I can always get them back later with a Sun Titan.
I like your use of Silence though I thought it was rotating so I didn't bother testing it in my deck. I may have to try that next time, probably over deprive. The major problem I have is lack of turn 1 and turn 2 plays, I think Silence might be a good answer.
Hopefully some of this was useful and not totally irrelevant.
Stoic Rebuttle because it's the same thing as a Cancel, slim chance says it could work as Metal Craft if you had 3/5 artifacts on the field, and it could make your opponent sidedeck artifact destruction if they think it's artifact based due to the spell being that and not Cancel.
The bluffing thing would be worthwhile to implement if you were considering running Rebuttal over Cancel. Negate is one mana cheaper, easier on the mana base and probably improved tenfold in efficiency due to the number of Artifacts that Scars has given us.
Unless the bluffing factor surpasses all these factors, (Or unless you put Metalcraft to good use, which is not the case here.) I don't think Rebuttal will be as good as Negate.
The bluffing thing would be worthwhile to implement if you were considering running Rebuttal over Cancel. Negate is one mana cheaper, easier on the mana base and probably improved tenfold in efficiency due to the number of Artifacts that Scars has given us.
Unless the bluffing factor surpasses all these factors, (Or unless you put Metalcraft to good use, which is not the case here.) I don't think Rebuttal will be as good as Negate.
Well, currently I'm running two Negates and two Stoic Rebuttles because I've found myself against infect decks and other aggro decks where my Negates weren't coming in handy because it couldn't target the creatures. I guess it'll just take tinkering with?
I am testing a b/w planeswalker control deck with Venser, Jace 2.0 and Gideon and I found that Sunblast Angel is a sleeper. Turn five play Gideon, use his +2 ability to make their guys swing then sweep their board with a turn six Sunblast Angel. Game Over.
Well, currently I'm running two Negates and two Stoic Rebuttles because I've found myself against infect decks and other aggro decks where my Negates weren't coming in handy because it couldn't target the creatures. I guess it'll just take tinkering with?
You do have four Wrath cards in DOJ and Ratchet and, from memory, people were doing fine handling aggro using four DOJ's. Not to mention the fact that you have Leak. Liberal use of these cards should be good enough to fend off aggro IMO.
Actually, maybe you should cut the DOJ's and just run four copies of Ratchet? You do run a fair number of creatures, so the selective destruction of Ratchet may sometimes be more beneficial than DOJ's indiscriminate destruction. Plus, more Artifacts means greater chance for Rebuttal to have access to Metalcraft.
The idea being these are all self-replacing dorks (stag as long as either oracle or wall are out - which they should be) so you maintain your hand while making t2-3-4 plays. As enemy tries to climb around it, you can DoJ without losing CA - and if they all stay down, you t5 venser, draw a card by bouncing wall/oracle. And if you get his ulti off you've got a mitfull of cards to start exiling with.
It would have strong game vs aggro with all the cheap blockers that replace themselves.
Round the deck out with mostly a normal control package - maybe throw in contagion clasp for the blink to kill dorks and proliferate.
You do have four Wrath cards in DOJ and Ratchet and, from memory, people were doing fine handling aggro using four DOJ's. Not to mention the fact that you have Leak. Liberal use of these cards should be good enough to fend off aggro IMO.
Actually, maybe you should cut the DOJ's and just run four copies of Ratchet? You do run a fair number of creatures, so the selective destruction of Ratchet may sometimes be more beneficial than DOJ's indiscriminate destruction. Plus, more Artifacts means greater chance for Rebuttal to have access to Metalcraft.
Metalcraft isn't a big deal to me. It's a bluff, but I'm still thinking about about replacing a Rebuttle with Negate or something. And Ratchet is great, but it's a horrible top deck when I'm already in a pinch. So I need the wraths still.
Here's my current Venser Lock. It's an extremely solid list that doesn't deviate form the main plan - lock the game and slowly win. The sideboard is the best part. I'm ready for anything...but mill
i played thie before scars so without venser, i won soooo many games dropping sun titan and aether adepting their threats out of the way with attacking
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top 100 SCG Sacramento
1st place GPT Seattle
1st place GPT Anaheim
I'm entering FNM with this deck Friday and I want it to be as prepared to handle anything that is thrown at me. So with that in mind, can I get some constructive criticism?
so, this is the decklist I'm playing with right now:
I really want some opinions on my list. I'm thinking about replacing my Sphinx's with Baneslayer Angel's, though I really like the Sphinx. I'm thinking about doing 1 and 1. I know that Baneslayer Angel is better, but being immune to spells gives the Sphinx a big advantage and can still swing for the same, but I want some opinions.
I was also debating between 2 Sun Titan and 1 Frost or vice-versa. I like Sun because he gives me all my things back, such as Wall of Omens. Which allow me to defend Venser as he +2's his way to his Emblem. Anyone have an opinion?
Also the Stoic Rebuttle or Negate argument. Anyone else find themselves wanting to have Cancel's rather than Negates in their hand against decks like Poison and Artifacts?
Jace's Ingenuity and Venser's Journal are on the outs. I really, really like Venser's Journal because of the life gain and it allows me to stockpile spells, and Ingenuity works well, obviously. But if there are more effective cards, I'd love to hear opinions.
And the sideboard... I'm kinda new to U/W, so I'd love any ideas.
crazy, admonition angel is a pseudo venser ultimate! crazy! u keep her alive long enough to win, if u cant and she dies, venser should be at his ult by then and u exile them for real!
I don't like using a bunch of Weenies. I want to base the deck around Venser, but keep it control and not very aggressive. Anyone else tried play testing the deck?
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uh why stoic rebuttal u dont have metal craft here
U/ Control
I think Trinket Mage works better, because he'll fetch the deck for removal (brittle effigy), tricks (voltaic Key), mana acceleration (mox or chalice) and helps for metalcraft slightly for rebuttal. Even Sea Gate Oracle would be better than temporarily stalling.
I'm really digging the Lux Cannon and I think with the right build it can be a force to be reckoned with. Venser will help, but he alone isn't what will make this deck good i think
Currently working on: BUGSelf-Mill
Stoic Rebuttle because it's the same thing as a Cancel, slim chance says it could work as Metal Craft if you had 3/5 artifacts on the field, and it could make your opponent sidedeck artifact destruction if they think it's artifact based due to the spell being that and not Cancel.
Creatures:
4x Wall of Omens
4x Aether Adept
4x Kor Hookmaster
4x Glimmerpoint Stag
3x Sun Titan
Other Spells:
4x Condemn
4x Mana Leak
3x Deprive
3x Day of Judgment
3x Jace Beleren
Lands:
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Celestial Colonnade
9x Island
7x Plains
The keys to this deck are similar to yours. Keep the opponent off balance with hookmaster and adept. However I use glimmerpoint stag to recur their enters the battlefield effects.
I changed the wincon in my deck from Venser to Sun Titan. Sun Titan does a better and faster job of ending games. He can recur any of my creatures and then their effects go off. Also I use jace 1.0 because he is effectively draw 3 cards for 3 mana and recurring him with Sun Titan is pretty nasty.
Other than that have a standard removal set up. I use deprive as a late game counter. Day of Judgment is nice because even if my guys die I can always get them back later with a Sun Titan.
I like your use of Silence though I thought it was rotating so I didn't bother testing it in my deck. I may have to try that next time, probably over deprive. The major problem I have is lack of turn 1 and turn 2 plays, I think Silence might be a good answer.
Hopefully some of this was useful and not totally irrelevant.
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
8 Plains
8 Islands
Creatures (7)
4 Wall Of Omens
3 Mnemonic Wall
Spells (22)
4 Mana Leak
4 Arrest
4 Silence
4 Day Of Judgment
4 Stoic Rebuttal
2 Condemn
3 Jace Beleren
3 Venser, The Sojourner
1 Gideon Jura
4 Kor Firewalker
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Revoke Existence
3 Leyline Of Sanctity
RADAMARO, FIRST TO DESIRER
UKEFNET THE MINDFULU
GSASAYA, OROCHI ASCENDANTG
MODERN
RMONO-RED ELDRAZIR
11 Plains
4 Island
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Halimar Depths
Main Deck (35)
2 Chimeric Mass
3 Condemn
4 Wall of Omens
4 Mana Leak
4 Survival Cache
3 Tumble Magnet
4 Day of Judgment
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Gideon Jura
3 Venser, the Sojourner
4 Admonition Angel
4 Celestial Purge
4 Flashfreeze
4 Devout Lightcaster
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
The bluffing thing would be worthwhile to implement if you were considering running Rebuttal over Cancel. Negate is one mana cheaper, easier on the mana base and probably improved tenfold in efficiency due to the number of Artifacts that Scars has given us.
Unless the bluffing factor surpasses all these factors, (Or unless you put Metalcraft to good use, which is not the case here.) I don't think Rebuttal will be as good as Negate.
BW BW Nuisances
RGW Naya Neo Wildfire
WUBRG 5C Super Friends
Well, currently I'm running two Negates and two Stoic Rebuttles because I've found myself against infect decks and other aggro decks where my Negates weren't coming in handy because it couldn't target the creatures. I guess it'll just take tinkering with?
This forum has my take on a good Venser deck that seems to work real well.
Credit to DNC of Heroes of the Plane Studios
You do have four Wrath cards in DOJ and Ratchet and, from memory, people were doing fine handling aggro using four DOJ's. Not to mention the fact that you have Leak. Liberal use of these cards should be good enough to fend off aggro IMO.
Actually, maybe you should cut the DOJ's and just run four copies of Ratchet? You do run a fair number of creatures, so the selective destruction of Ratchet may sometimes be more beneficial than DOJ's indiscriminate destruction. Plus, more Artifacts means greater chance for Rebuttal to have access to Metalcraft.
BW BW Nuisances
RGW Naya Neo Wildfire
WUBRG 5C Super Friends
4x wall of omens
4x sea gate oracle
4x glimmerpoint stag
The idea being these are all self-replacing dorks (stag as long as either oracle or wall are out - which they should be) so you maintain your hand while making t2-3-4 plays. As enemy tries to climb around it, you can DoJ without losing CA - and if they all stay down, you t5 venser, draw a card by bouncing wall/oracle. And if you get his ulti off you've got a mitfull of cards to start exiling with.
It would have strong game vs aggro with all the cheap blockers that replace themselves.
Round the deck out with mostly a normal control package - maybe throw in contagion clasp for the blink to kill dorks and proliferate.
4 Wall of Omens
4 Sea Gate Oracle
3 Glimmerpoint Stag
3 Sun Titan
Planeswalkers (8)
3 Jace Beleren
2 Ajani Goldmane
3 Venser, the Sojourner
4 Condemn
3 Contagion Clasp
4 Day of Judgement
3 Survival Cache
Lands (24)
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
8 Plains
8 Islands
Metalcraft isn't a big deal to me. It's a bluff, but I'm still thinking about about replacing a Rebuttle with Negate or something. And Ratchet is great, but it's a horrible top deck when I'm already in a pinch. So I need the wraths still.
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
8 Plains
6 Islands
Creatures (8)
4 Wall Of Omens
3 Mnemonic Wall
1 Admonition Angel
4 Mana Leak
4 Journey To Nowhere
4 Silence
4 Stoic Rebuttal
3 Day Of Judgment
2 Condemn
Planeswalkers (7)
3 Jace Beleren
3 Venser, The Sojourner
1 Gideon Jura
4 Revoke Existence
4 Kor Firewalker
3 Leyline Of Sanctity
2 Leonin Arbiter
2 Spreading Seas
RADAMARO, FIRST TO DESIRER
UKEFNET THE MINDFULU
GSASAYA, OROCHI ASCENDANTG
MODERN
RMONO-RED ELDRAZIR
1st place GPT Seattle
1st place GPT Anaheim
so, this is the decklist I'm playing with right now:
4x Celestial Colonnade
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Seachrome Coast
4x Tectonic Edge
5x Island
5x Plains
Creatures: 9
4x Wall of Omens
2x Sun Titan
1x Frost Titan
2x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
3x Condemn
4x Mana Leak
4x Negate
2x Day of Judgement
1x Jace's Ingenuity
Artifacts: 5
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Brittle Effigy
1x Venser's Journal
Planeswalkers: 6
3x Jace Beleren
2x Venser the Sojourner
1x Gideon Jura
4x Spreading Seas
4x Kor Firewalkers
2x Revoke Existence
3x Flash Freeze
2x Celestial Purge
I really want some opinions on my list. I'm thinking about replacing my Sphinx's with Baneslayer Angel's, though I really like the Sphinx. I'm thinking about doing 1 and 1. I know that Baneslayer Angel is better, but being immune to spells gives the Sphinx a big advantage and can still swing for the same, but I want some opinions.
I was also debating between 2 Sun Titan and 1 Frost or vice-versa. I like Sun because he gives me all my things back, such as Wall of Omens. Which allow me to defend Venser as he +2's his way to his Emblem. Anyone have an opinion?
Also the Stoic Rebuttle or Negate argument. Anyone else find themselves wanting to have Cancel's rather than Negates in their hand against decks like Poison and Artifacts?
Jace's Ingenuity and Venser's Journal are on the outs. I really, really like Venser's Journal because of the life gain and it allows me to stockpile spells, and Ingenuity works well, obviously. But if there are more effective cards, I'd love to hear opinions.
And the sideboard... I'm kinda new to U/W, so I'd love any ideas.
At FNM Friday, I placed 5th. I lost to the mirror match when he sided in Luminarch Ascensions. X:
Overall, I think it works really well though,
I really like sunblast in it, with frost titan instead of the sun. Plays well with repel the darkness, hookmasters, sleep, and gideon.