[Developing] U/W Venser Control

  • #1
    okay... i'm wondering if this idea can work in the hands of a better deckbuilder.

    the main idea is to stall, until you get venser online with a mnemonic wall. once that happens, you can bounce the wall forever, getting you a silence (or condemn, worst case scenario)

    so this would give you a permanent silence lock

    so venser is combo piece and win-condition. after you lock them out for a few turns, you use venser's ultimate. any potential here? this list i'm posting obviously needs work or maybe even changed completely.

    the basic idea seems good on paper. i mean, everything in your deck can revolve around "turtling" and surviving.

    mtg_girl's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    // Lands
    4 Glacial Fortress
    3 Tectonic Edge
    7 Plains
    7 Island
    4 Seachrome Coast

    // Creatures
    4 Wall of Omens
    4 Mnemonic Wall
    4 Kor Hookmaster
    4 AEther Adept

    // Spells
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 Silence
    4 Venser, the Sojourner
    2 Jace Beleren
    4 Condemn
    2 Everflowing Chalice





    other cards to consider.... mana leak, frost titan, day of judgement, more spot removal, more ramp, call to mind?
    Last edited by mtg_girl: 9/27/2010 10:12:35 PM

    Stoneforge Mystic is GILBIC.
    Dude, Blightning sucks. It's just a slightly better Mind Rot!
    Squadron Hawks? Maybe okay in Limited. They're just 1/1 fliers, after all.
    Why pre-order 30 Primeval Titans off Ebay for 25$ each? Sun Titan is obviously the best.
    NOOBS.
  • #2
    Any of the Proliferate cards could help you get Venser's ultimate off quicker, plus you could recur some of them with Mnemonic wall.

    Ratchet bomb + Sun titan + Venser's +1 is always a good combo to deal with some of the agro you might come up against.

    Chalices are a good idea since you can use them to ramp into Venser or the Mnemonic wall; they also work well with Trinket mage as a tutor.

    You might think about Elspeth 2.0 as well. Once you get her ultimate off and start to get the Mnemonic wall + Venser + Silence lock going it would be game over.
  • #3
    Hmm really cool. And ugh...dont run Elspeth 2.0 (bad card, seriously, okay just overated), are looking to blow up all of your combo pieces? Chalice is not a great idea because your tapping out to play them, so your blue spells cant react to that and white has no spell that merits ramping into to play it early, like Martial Coup for instance.

    -4 Hookmaster + 4 Day of Judgement, the lockdown is useless if your staring down resovle threats/creature artifact making things
    - Everflowing Chalice has no synergy anywhere, you dont need to ramp, this isnt tap out for Martial Coup or Iona, Shield of Emria , add +1 Land to get to 26, drop those lands and play Venser turn 5 anyway. You dont need to cheat him in early.
    +Mana Leaks somewhere Dispel for Silence backup, this could be SBD stuff. Mana Leak main deck would be good. I'd go -1 Venser - 2 Chalice - 1 Jace 1.0
    - Jace Beleren, used as an anti Jace 2.0 nuke?, i say run more Negates or counters instead, more flexible. Or +1 Jace 2.0 and + Mana Leak
    -No need for Call to Mind, Memonic Wall is the combo
    - Aether Adepts im not so sure, i like Into the Roil for its flexibility. I know all of these are good bounce combos but what if Koth resvoles, what if they have a haste creature etc...
    - I would run 3 Venser. He has one (ultimate) purpose, Memonic Wall/Silence (and its a great combo), so having one constantly in your opening hand is bad. You have to find the pieces but more importantly control the board before you play him. Like the Pyro Ascention deck, you combo off the graveyard. Your looking to combo off late game because you have 2 5 mana cards you need to protect.

    Okay i'll make my own, luckily my friend cracked some Vensers, this will be awsome.

    Lands
    MyBlackPlague's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Glacial Fortress
    4 Celestial Colonade
    3 Tectonic Edge
    7 Plains
    8 Island

    Creatures
    3 Wall of Omens
    4 Mnemonic Wall

    Spells
    4 Silence
    2 Condemn
    4 Mana Leak
    2 Negate
    1 Turn Aside
    2 Into the Roil
    2 Jaces Ingeunity

    3 Day of Judgment
    4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Venser, the Sojourner



    Here is how i see it playing out ---

    - Liberal use of Silence to control the tempo of the game. Use it early to stop creature threats, this will make up for your lack of instant speed removal. Use Wall of Omen/Mana Leaks/Silence early, control the pace of the game. Use Day of Judgment mid game. Get your combo pieces into play, protect with negates/turn aside, then use your graveyard as a toolbox too lock down. Sideboard in Dispel/Negate against control, Flashfreezes against Ramp/Red Anything, +1 Day of Judgement against aggro, Journey against Vengvine/Titan like creatures.

    Other comments ---

    - Dont worry about Day of Judgment nuking your own wall. Venser exile it, mainphase nuke their dudes, then reutrn it EoT! So friggin cool....sooo sooo good, so very cool, well done ma'am(?). I can acutally respect U/W depsite my hatred for it! In my eyes you've made a White deck cool/interesting... without o-ring or path to exile!

    - I wouldnt worry about much instant speed removal, control is meant to take damage and with the abilitly to lockdown/use DoJ every turn mid game you'll be very stable. I wouldnt run Condemn as a 4 of to replace path to exile. It can't deal with Fanua Shama/activated abilities so i dont bother with it. Day should be your creature answer.

    - One problem i foresee will be keeping your Wall alive game 2 when they realise what's going to happen. Turn Aside (not stoic rebuttle) is good Dispel it depends on the deck your facing, Negate it costs 2 mana meaning your pretty delayed if you want to protect it. I still dont think Chalice ramp is worth the slots but in light of this it might be considered, the ramp is not to get in early but to have enough open for protection.

    -Perhaps Khalni Gem, because it leaves counter magic open, mana fixes, ramps the turn after and lets you have enough to play the wall and back it up, which you would otherwise surely tap out to play Everflowing Chalice
    Last edited by MyBlackPlague: 9/27/2010 11:49:49 PM
    Given up magic because a)its a waste of money b)it sucks the joy out of life c)im doing more interesting things than tapping pieces of plastic that have no intrinsic value.

    I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
  • #4
    No Day of Judgment? Seems like an auto-include (especially with Mnemonic Wall recursion). Just bounce Wall, then nuke your opponent's dudes (and maybe a Wall of Omens, but oh well.) As mentioned, both Sun and Frost Titans also seem potentially excellent here, as well as Elspeth Tirel. And can't be in white without mentioning Baneslayer Angel. Preordain is an early option to filter for your combo pieces.

    Sample decklist:
    supermoo9999's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Spells
    4 Preordain
    4 Silence
    2 See Beyond
    4 Day of Judgment

    Artifacts
    2 Everflowing Chalice

    Creatures
    4 Wall of Omens
    4 Mnemonic Wall
    3 Baneslayer Angel

    Planeswalkers
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Elspeth Tirel
    4 Venser, the Sojourner

    Edit: Agree with Plague, counterspells would be nice for early-game and protection. Actually pretty much all of his(?) post hits the nail on the head.

    Edit2: This deck makes me want to play Standard. Here's hoping Venser tanks in price so I can pick him up for $10. And lol, meant Venser, the Sojourner, not Venser, Shaper Savant >.
    Last edited by supermoo9999: 9/27/2010 10:55:32 PM
    :D:D:D DCI Rules Advisor :D:D:D
  • #5
    oh so if you zap wall with venser, you're free to wrath.. good call!

    and good call on dispel, to protect your walls, etc. would dispel or turn aside be better?

    i'll try out everything you guys suggested.

    also, more sorceries/instants could be included, because at the very least, if you're getting back say, a condemn every single turn, and adding +2 to venser to boot, that's gotta be pretty good

    Stoneforge Mystic is GILBIC.
    Dude, Blightning sucks. It's just a slightly better Mind Rot!
    Squadron Hawks? Maybe okay in Limited. They're just 1/1 fliers, after all.
    Why pre-order 30 Primeval Titans off Ebay for 25$ each? Sun Titan is obviously the best.
    NOOBS.
  • #6
    MTG girl weren't you the one complaining about control decks the other day. anyways

    My friend has a Venser deck abusing Mnemonic Wall + Silence + Venser, as well as other control staples

    His only creatures are the walls and Sun titan. He has 10 counters in the deck as well as 2 Jace, The mindsculptor, 2 Gideon's, 2 Venser, and 1 elspeth. Runs 4 board wipes and runs condemns and Arrest. It is a pain in the ass to play against. Basically if he gets venser and Mnemonic wall on the field he goes nuts. Every turn getting his Silence or DOJ's out, and basically just locking me down the hole game. He beats face with sun titan, Celestial Colonade, and gideon and can reliably get Jace to his ultimate.
  • #7
    Ooh, Arrest is nice with Sun Titan. Thanks for the info, Xover.

    Dang, Gideon Jura is good in here, too. 60-cardslot syndrome... Frown
    :D:D:D DCI Rules Advisor :D:D:D
  • #8
    sounds like this deck could be very competitive. i will make up a list and post
  • #9
    turn aside main deck not a perfect lock but it can counter your opp trying to destroy the combo
    2nd in New Phyrexia Gameday
  • #10
    Too convoluted to be effective.

    A 3 card combo that is a soft lock and requires immense amounts of protection is not efficient.

    liliana's spectre + mimic vat is a 2 card similar lock, way easier to pull off and probably more reliable.

    Your combo requires:

    a 5cc otherwise-unplayable wall.
    a 5cc mediocre planeswalker
    a 1cc terrible spell

    Not that there isn't synergy between the 3, but if you only get 2 of your 3 pieces your deck is just going to be very bad. And two of your pieces require 5 mana, meaning you will need 7 mana just to protect it with a mana leak.
    My EDH Blog: Macaroni or Cheese
  • #11
    MyBlackPlague's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Glacial Fortress
    3 Celestial Colonade
    3 Tectonic Edge
    7 Plains
    9 Island

    Creatures
    4 Wall of Omens
    3 Mnemonic Wall

    Spells
    4 Silence
    2 Into the Roil
    4 Mana Leak
    2 Negate
    2 Cancel

    2 Foresee
    4 Day of Judgment
    4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Venser, the Sojourner



    This is the deck at current.

    -3 Vensser, 3 Wall because in testing 2 was to few. Memonic Wall is okay at 3 anyhow because its a good utility.
    - Foresee added for combo digging
    -4 Jace because i)hes a fat distraction ii)harder to remove now iii)at worst he is brainstorm for 4 and he eats some of their cards away
    -Still no ramp, still debating it, still undecided wether to include or not, but definatly not Khalni Garden it messes with Tempo to much and more artifact removal is likely so
    -Took a more permission route, got to see if minimal creatures works.
    - Silence is such a fun annoying card to use btw, getting two in hand or drawing into them one after the other is gold

    No major testing done yet, mostly fishbowl, drawing and a only a few basic games v causal decks. Will let yall know how it goes.

    Sure its convulted but Venser can do lots of stuff. More Tokkens for Triskeleon, Frost Titan tap down, any enter the battlefield effects. Its worth exploring, this is the current form.
    Last edited by MyBlackPlague: 9/30/2010 10:26:03 AM
    Given up magic because a)its a waste of money b)it sucks the joy out of life c)im doing more interesting things than tapping pieces of plastic that have no intrinsic value.

    I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
  • #12
    I really like the deck idea, mostly because I really like Venser. Grin

    I tested the deck a little bit against some casual decks. Well, once Venser and the Mnemonic Wall are out I could stall my opponent completely with silence recursion and it was easy to pull off venser's ultimate.
    Also with the DOJ I was equipped against flyers and other suff. But since the deck is quite mana intensive I felt the need for everflowing chalice to speed things up.

    As for the finisher: I didn't play arrest so I preferred BSA over SunTitan but I think the idea intriguing to focus more on removal using arrest and SunTitan and recurse those two with Venser's first ability.
  • #13
    I think this deck has some potential. I'm currently testing the following:

    Sayokyoku's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands: 24
    7 Island
    6 Plains
    4 Glacial Fortress
    4 Seachrome Coast
    4 Tectonic Edge

    Creatures: 7
    4 Mnemonic Wall
    3 Wall of Omens

    Other Spells: 29
    4 Into the Roil
    4 Mana Leak
    4 Negate
    4 Silence
    3 Day of Judgment
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Venser, the Sojourner
    2 Gideon Jura
    2 Jace's Ingenuity

    My random T2 decks:

    BW BW Nuisances
    RGW Naya Neo Wildfire
    WUBRG 5C Super Friends
  • #14


    You want 4 WoO not 4 Memonic, WoO stops some of the early aggro shenanigans and smooths out draw. Memonic is combo and very expensive to cast.
    Given up magic because a)its a waste of money b)it sucks the joy out of life c)im doing more interesting things than tapping pieces of plastic that have no intrinsic value.

    I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
  • #15
    I actually hold off aggro quite well already, although it's true that more Omens won't hurt. Thanks.
    My random T2 decks:

    BW BW Nuisances
    RGW Naya Neo Wildfire
    WUBRG 5C Super Friends
  • #16
    So yeah im gonna use this next fnm. Out of all the decks i've been testing on mws this has proved the best so far. Help/comments appreciated.

    Lets make this deck competitive

    Rhox War Monk's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands 23
    4 Celestial Colonnade
    9 Island
    5 Plains
    3 Glacial Fortess
    2 Seachrome Coast

    Creature Spells 5
    3 Thrummingbird
    2 Trinket Mage

    Artifact Spells 16
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Tumble Magnet
    2 Lux Cannon
    1 Contagion Engine
    4 Contagion Clasp
    4 Everflowing Chalice
    2 Chimeric Mass

    NC Colored Spells 16
    2 Venser, the Sojourner
    2 Gideon Jura
    4 Steady Progress
    4 Stoic Rebuttal
    4 Day of Judgement



    It is a control based deck ok against agro. Best against other control deck and combo.

    This build had some trouble with the augmentom armor deck, but if it becomes too much of a problem you could always side some anti artifact stuff.

    Basic turns

    1 land, chimeric mass or colonnade
    2 land, chalice/ratchet bomb/contagion clasp/thrumming bird (if you have bird and chalice it is best to play chalice next turn)
    3 land, -steady progess/lux cannon (if you have chalice but not the cannon you could save taping the chalice, then tap it for 2 b/c of progress and drop another card.
    -trinket mage
    4 land, -trinket mage and chimeric mass for 4
    -cannon
    -planes walker
    - wrath of god

    as you see are first and second turn moves change what you are probably going to play 3rd and 4th turn.

    For a win condition you control until you can win with venser/gideon/chimeric mass/colonnade.

    the most important thing to think about when you are using this deck is when to proliferate or when to day of judgement or when to block with colonnade. Let your opponent decide for you. If they attack and you think you have too low of life block. If not let it go thorugh and steady progress. If they play a threat/win condition counter it and save the progress.

    There are differnt variation of this kind of deck im sure. You could make it mono white into more of a staxx deck. Or go mono blue and drop the planeswalkers for more coutner spells if you think it cant block well enough.

    Key cards are definately the proliferateing cards. Contagion Engine can be huge with lux cannon. Make sure not to forget that you can give the planeswalkers extra counters. Speeding venser final up by a turn would be nice.

    About adding Jace. I am not sure how much good he would do the deck because it has a slow kind of creature removal, but im sure that he would be good to side against uw control decks.

    When you are playing mono red you two biggest threats are koth and masticor. MAKE SURE TO SAVE REMOVAL!!! Against a ramp or mono red if they drop a big creature it could be game if you cant rid of it.
    And against the mono red, do not spend mana on your turn 3/4 you do not want them to drop a koth because you probably wont be able to kill him unless you have a chimera mass.

    Again lets make this competative! Smile
    Last edited by Rhox War Monk: 10/3/2010 6:42:25 PM
  • #17
    Maybe develop your own comment of the deck?
    Match-ups?
    How it works?
    Plan?
    etc...?

    Instead of dropping a list without anything.
  • #18
    Quote from Maelstr0m
    Maybe develop your own comment of the deck?
    Match-ups?
    How it works?
    Plan?
    etc...?

    Instead of dropping a list without anything.


    Good point thanks Smile
  • #19
    So, this would probably belong in the U/W/x competitive sub forum, but due to not being allowed to speak about budgets and such, I decided to get feedback from people here. Being unable to get Jace 2.0's in my area, I wanted to make a U/W deck that focused more around the much more easily obtainable Venser.

    The premise of U/W Control would stay the same, but with a bit more aggro in order to compliment Venser. This is what I'm striving for:

    Sariku's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards


    I'm not sure why this isn't linking to the cards, I'll try and fix it after I post. Now for some notes:

    - Jace, theMind Sculptor is just too hard to get, so I'm trying to make up for it by basing it around Venser. I know Jace is better, but that's not what this deck is about.
    - Sphinx of Jwar Isle could be replaced by Baneslayer Angel if you want, who I find isn't that hard to come by where I play, but I really enjoy the part of the Sphinx having Shroud and allowing me to scout the top of my deck. Common decks like Valakut and anything with heavy removal has trouble getting through the Sphinx. Plus, it's body isn't bad.
    - Gideon Jura should be understood. He comes in, either destroys a creature or makes himself a target, and then I try and protect him with either Wall of Omens, Condemns, etc. If they can't handle him, he swings for six. Never cast him on turn, so you have the mana to protect him.
    - Ratchet bomb takes out common threats, and can be retrieved by Sun Titan, who can grab up to two a turn with the help of Venser.
    - Venser's Journal is in the deck as a one of. It helps to gain life every upkeep and has never clogged up my hand. If I was ever put in a position to discard, it's also an easy throw away. Topple that with Jace's Ingenuity and all the other draw spells and it comes in handy. Easy to sideboard out as well.
    - Stoic Rebuttle's can either work as Cancel's, or if you're lucky, as a counter spell. As a side note, it's possible the opponent could believe you're running an artifact heavy deck due to it and sideboard destruction. Never a downside.
    - I prefer Seachrome Coast over the Zendikar uncommon lands because it allows me to Condemn pesky Goblin Guides turn 1, lay down a Brittle Effigy, etc. But I guess to each his own.

    Opinions? I'm currently making the sideboard, will post it soon.
    Last edited by Sariku: 10/4/2010 12:32:51 PM
  • #20
    Remove the card tags from around the cards, you only need the deck tags at the beginning and end of the decklist to get it working. I'm uncertain, but I think the issues with the bold tags are a result of you using lowercase b's instead of the recognized uppercase.

    It's an interesting deck, wish I could give you more feedback but I'm loathing how good control looks in the developing meta so I can't really bring myself to do more then skim the list right now.
    Favorite MTG trading website: https:www.pucatrade.com
  • #21
    i've been going back and forth with this deck and i'm not sure if i want to go more control or more "combo". I'm going to try both but this is the build i'm working with at the moment..

    Creatures
    X3 Aether Adept
    X3 Trinket Mage
    X3 Wall of Omens
    X3 Glimmerpoint Stag
    X3 Mnemonic Wall
    X3 Sun Titan

    Spells
    X3 Condemn
    X3 Negate
    X3 Mana Leak
    X3 Silence

    Other
    X3 Brittle Effigy
    X3 Venser, the Sojourner

    Land
    X4 Glacial Fortress
    X4 Celestial Colonnade
    X4 Seachrome Coast
    X2 Tectonic Edge
    X2 Mystifying Maze
    X4 Island
    X4 Plains
  • #22
    Updated my first post with a sideboard. I know I probably need some destroy artifacts or whatever, so I threw in a few Revoke Existences with the standard. Any opinions on it, or the deck?
  • #23
    i tried this deck the other day and i think i liked it. Smile

    do0ki3 pwns's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    planeswalkers:5
    2x Venser the sojourner
    2x jace beleren
    1x gideon jura

    3x Baneslayer Angel
    1x wurmcoil engine
    1x Sunblast Angel
    4x wall of omes
    2x suntitan

    4x journey to nowhere
    2x condemn
    2x silence
    4x speading seas
    4x mana leak
    3x cancel
    1x sleep

    4x glacial fortress
    8x island
    8x plains
    2x marsh flats
    2x scalding tarn

    my lame trades
    Removing Gaea's Revenge without DOJ:
    Quote from midnight_v
    U/R... hmm... Double pyroclasm.

    Quote from Teia Rabishu
    That's a good idea except for one minor detail:
    It has 5 toughness.
  • #24
    I skimmed through these lists and didn't find anything that specifically centered around Venser (I did see U/W control, but it was more of a cheap rendition of U/W/B).

    This is not meant to be a cheap deck and I don't want this to turn into a Jace deck control.. this is meant to be centered around Venser, but should work even if he is taken out.

    Since Venser went well with blink decks back in Future sight, why not follow that strategy here? Certain things like getting blinked.. like "untapping" a Voltaic Key or blinking relevant creatures.

    ovid's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Planeswalker (5)
    3x Venser, the Sojourner
    2x Jace Beleren

    Creatures (12)
    4x Wall of Omens
    3x Sun Titan
    4x Trinket Mage
    2x Mnemonic Wall

    Spells (12)
    3x Day of Judgment
    3x Negate
    3x Mana Leak
    3x Stoic Rebuttal

    Artifacts (11)
    1x Voltaic Key
    2x Lux Cannon
    3x Everflowing Chalice
    1x Brittle Effigy
    3x Ratchet Bomb
    1x Opal Mox

    Land (22)
    7x Island
    7x Plains
    4x Celestial Collonade
    4x Glacial Fortress

    No real sidedeck.. just seeing how to tinker this better. The Voltaic Key can be fetched via Trinket Mage and serves several purposes. First it can untap Lux Cannon to hasten its counters or add an extra counter for Ratchet Bomb. It can also be used as mana acceleration for the mox or the chalice. Venser can always blink the key to give you extra mana for counters.

    The Mnemonic Wall helps you get back counters and can also be blinked as well. The Sun Titan can fetch your trinket mage, wall of omens, ratchet bomb, or jace.

    I will test this out against other people with new builds to see how it works.. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
  • #25
    Hey, try taking a look at my thread;

    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=274367

    Its focused on trying to Venser controlling the opponent with all sorts of silly recursion going on. The deck pretty much aims to 1-0 the opponent, its not quick, but it seems pretty damn reliable.
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