I'm just curious, but why do none of the lists that I've seen run a heavier artifact theme with Tempered Steel? It seems like it would be stronger, since it would pump all of our less than ideal 0 cmc artifacts.
CrapforBrains, I imagine the reason why there is so little love for Tempered Steel was because I already tested it and posted my results.
Sure, an artifact heavy slant helps to deal with DoJ if you have an aggro hand by recovering afterward. But it also slants heavily away from the core objective of popping the quest. I did enjoy having a pretty solid mid-game against the dedicated list, but splashing blue does a better job of making use of your cards by allowing you to both filter (via riddle smith) and tutor for more creatures (Trinket Mage).
So, personally feeling is in strong agreement with splashing blue rather then to cut further into the theme to make room for an often dead enchantment if they land a DoJ. And trust me, while the counters from blue/white control were bothersome they didn't mean anything compared to them wiping my board.
HeyItsKC, your list looks inconsistent. It's low on creatures compared to the other lists posted, noting that Myrsmith only floods the board and doesn't particularly help with getting the quest off (as the ability doesn't cast the creature). Tempered Steel, Brittle Effigy, Mox Opal's, and Chimeric Mass don't help with the quest so I'm surprised your even still running it at this point as you've heavily cut into the theme.
I mean, it's an interesting deck and could god-hand a little more often then WW. But it looks like you would have a lot of problems with the deck, so I'm surprised it's worked so well for you.
Korlithiel: Like i said i tried to mix the two. The other guy asked why there arent more list with tempered steel i just shoud him mine. i should of explained more but i was cooking n watching sons of anarchey
So yes opal and steel dont work in the WW mystic version. but if one would want it to work it would have to be more artifact heavy and pull away from 6-8 equipment mystic/outfitter everyone is running too have +2/+2 to your artifacts
Ah, I missed that. I just had such horrid luck with combining the two that I do tend to look more harshly on them as the ideas seem compatible because of how many cards they have in common, and at least for me failed to really get there.
So ... what does anyone think of the decklist I edited into my post back here? I dunno ... I like it.
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my mouth is full of winsome lies -
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
Sam11111, first a bit of advice. Never edit in a deck list if you want others to comment on it, because you increase the chances people won't see it.
Manabase apears fine, though personally I would try to run 2x Celestial Colonnade in place of 2x Island because I like the idea of running them, sort of a late game back-up plan.
Personally I'm not fond of running Preordain, it only provides pseudo card advantage. It also isn't a creature, so it doesn't exactly work toward the main theme in the deck (in effect it harms it). But I do get why you want to run it, either sift into a quest early on (and bank heavily on the quest) or into other creatures so you can reliably pop the quest. I would rather run a couple Stoneforge Mystic in the mainboard and a couple Kor Outfitter as a reliable alternative to the quest as well as for adding more creatures.
From the look of it you basically replaced a large amount of the equip subtheme with counters and draw power, taking the deck from an early game deck into mid to late game while relying on small creatures. I can't say that is wise, as you lose the edge in terms of effective creatures around turn 3 and without having the edge in terms of equips you basically just have to hope a few select counters throws your opponents off their game.
Still, the flying theme could work out well enough. Maybe more work on that and use the quest as a subtheme would work out better, as you would rush with fliers in the early game and run out that enchantment to maintain relevance in the mid-game (or counters to stop/stall a DoJ). Still, to go that route you need to look into making your own thread as a different deck.
I know I shouldn't edit a decklist in if I want people to comment on it, I didn't realize I wanted people to comment until after I just edited it in. Thus the post. I've been on this board long enough ... I'd hope I know most things like that. [I'm sure I don't know some. :P]
The basic idea behind my build is that Stoneforge Mystic/Kor Outfitter is a cool idea that doesn't work.* Therefore, why not run as much scry as possible to find quest? Then, when you play it, you can interact with your opponent's strategy in ways that aren't just 'I attack into your face, HAH'. E.G.: in the prospective mirror, I can counter Stoneforge Mystic. [Or, funnily enough, Kor Outfitter.] And the flying subtheme w/Shift is just kind of there to take advantage of afterwards.
It isn't 'WW+Affinity', though, so I suppose it doesn't exactly belong in this thread. Perhaps I'll make a different one if I can develop it a bit more and make sure it's a viable direction.
@ other suggestions: I want to play Colonnade but it's difficult with the aggro theme of the deck [CITP kills]. Possibly cutting a Glacial Fortress, an Island, and a Plains? Or something like that. [I want to cut 3 lands so I can play 2 Colonnades and a third Gravitational Shift. ... Shift is so bad. And yet it is so good.]
*: As a backup to quest, that is. And obviously this is IMHO/the majority of people here disagree with me. Mystic needs to, you know, not die [so it can tap-cast the Armor]: it exposes you to drawing the second armor: and this comes out on turn 4 at the earliest, with every step eminently disruptible. My expectation is that every single deck you play against will either kill the mystic before it plants the armor down [red,black, or white?] or counter the Outfitter[anything blue?]: if they don't, they're way too non-interactive, probably kept a bad hand, and you should beat the crap out of them anyways. Works pretty well against Eldrazi Green, I'd guess? Long story short: secondary combo hasn't been too helpful in testing. [Though I do like Outfitter against removal.]
If I was running WW I'd just run all the best 1 and 2-drops, Adventuring Gear, and Honor of the Pure/Brave the Elements. And then I would run people over as my backup plan. Screw Quest and Mystic and Outfitter, the combo's nice when it works, but otherwise you can have a grand old time smacking people for 4 turn 2, dropping 2 more 1-drops [or a great 2-drop], and third turn Adventuring Gear+equip or Honor of the Pure-swinging at their face for a bunch.
@below: No room for the Squadron Hawks, I think [what would you cut? Augury Owl? It's pretty great], though I would love to run them [it also kind of messes w/ the scrying subtheme but who cares, Hawk is good]. I honestly don't have much of a problem getting counters on the quest when i draw it, I do run 20 creatures [with 8 of them letting me replay other creatures], and Preordain replaces itself and finds another creature if I need fairly quickly [Augury Owl finds more creatures too].
my mouth is full of winsome lies -
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
What about squadron hawks? they provide you with 4 of the 5 needed creatures to use the quest. i like the idea of putting counters in and also like glint hak idol. it doent take much to activate but still saves you from day of judgement.
I don't like Squadron Hawks at all. I opted for Ichorclaw Myr + Infiltration Lens, since I often get advantage with this cards against a variety of decks. Equipping Argentum Aggro on it with Infiltration Lens is pretty insane.
I'm conflicted on squadron hawks. Great card advantage, but 2 for a 1/1 flyer feels slow for a deck that's running very little mana accel and hoping to explode quickly.
Meanwhile, has anyone considered Nym Deathmantle for card advantage? Gives you something to do if you run out of cards, gives you protection against over extending. Admittedly, kind of pricey for the deck.
Also, what about Livewire Lash in place of Trusty Machete? One more to cast, it trades one toughness for punishing the opponent for using spell removal. Might be worth considering depending on the meta.
k so ive seen W/U builds has anyone tried a G/W build it would give us access to some cheap ramp and fauna shaman if we put in overgrown battlements and WoO it would give us insane mana to spend on hard casting the armor and equipping it not to mention could give us another flyer to equip the armor on
God I love the idea behind this deck. The main reason I wont be making it unfortunately is somehow my playgroup loves to play black there are 2-3 decent black decks in our 15-20 players who end up doing well every week and I cant think this deck would do especially great against doom blade :(. Not to mention if he goes first he runs Duress mainboard with Inquisition of Kozilek sided.
God I love the idea behind this deck. The main reason I wont be making it unfortunately is somehow my playgroup loves to play black there are 2-3 decent black decks in our 15-20 players who end up doing well every week and I cant think this deck would do especially great against doom blade :(. Not to mention if he goes first he runs Duress mainboard with Inquisition of Kozilek sided.
run some white knights, silence or devout lightcaster in your sb
None-Creatures
4 Tempered Steel
2 Argentum Armor
2 Chimeric Mass
3 Mox Opal
1 Brittle Effigy
4 Quest for the Holy Relic
Side
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Unified Will
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Infiltration Lens
3 Revoke Existence
After testing WW and then this, Holy Relic is always a turn two. this build has not failed me yet
I hope this isn't in here on the presumption that it will help feed Quest. It does not. Quest stipulates "Cast a creature spell". Otherwise I don't really see the point to this in here.
i think with VERY little further design/new cards, this will be a fairly potent combo.
Memnite offering another free creature, along with Glint Hawk being another Skyfisher and an excellent creature makes this combo seem fairly reliable and quite powerful. My only main concern is that one board wipe, and at a low CMC on the creatures, Ratchet Bomb, Consume the Meek, All is Dust, and Ratchet Bomb will all take care of most of the threats and leave you in a (generally) unrecoverable position, and this deck isn't generally so fast that you're swinging for lethal on turn 3 or 4.
I think this deck, right now, is very reminiscent to Pre-M11 Valakut decks - It's pretty darn good, but not Tier 1. I will definitely be building this as a casual deck, since it's a very easy, inexpensive build, and it's fun.
In conclusion, I DO think that Argentium Armor and the Sword offer two powerful targets for Quest for the Holy Relic, and we can only expect to see more powerful equipments in the next set, and this build absolutely merits continuous observation and experimentation.
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Currently Playing: UW UW Control WR Tempered Steel GR Valakut Ramp G Elves GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
I don't like Squadron Hawks at all. I opted for Ichorclaw Myr + Infiltration Lens, since I often get advantage with this cards against a variety of decks. Equipping Argentum Aggro on it with Infiltration Lens is pretty insane.
Why only 3 Kor Skyfishers? From my experience, he's the difference between 3 and 5 counters on your quest.
ISBPathfinder, Doom Blade isn't a huge issue as you also run a playset of Kor Outfitter's and if your on the play can occasionally get going before they can run out spot removal. Sure, the Duress can hit a Quest but that leaves you Stoneforge Mystic to tutor & drop into play and an explosive early game filled with fliers.
In other words, if you have the cards and want to run the deck then go for it. Not like one week of only doing ok is going to hurt you.
Virago: like i said in the first line i tried to mix holy relic with the aggro tempered steel deck. im not focusing on just equipment i have a side plan aswell, both work fine for me. i mean, where as in mono white u would want holy relic or stoneforge mystice in your opening hand in this i would want relic or myrsmith/tempered steel
Virago: like i said in the first line i tried to mix holy relice with the aggro tempered steel deck. im not focusing on just equipment i have a side plan aswell, both work fine for me. i mean, where as in mono white u would want holy relice or stoneforge mystice in your opening hand in this i would want relice or myrsmith/tempered steel
Meh, I played my blue white version against it and with my new board, i don't think that they really have a chance. I mean, mono black sure, I'll crush it. I don't what the best deck black will play in, but i think the best "black deck" will be the UWB control deck, but even that seems iffy. Turn Aside and Unified will give your guys pretty good back up, as well as etched champion. here's what my board currently looks like for states:
I found that I actually don't need the luminarch ascension as the deck is faster than that. I don't know exactly what I'm putting in there yet, maybe 1 more archangel and 1 sword of body and mind. Could potentially change the lifestaff too, haven't gotten to play to much against mono red. This deck trounces control matchups pretty well, and it is more aggressive than Valakut or Eldrazi ramp, so i mean. I'm thinking i might want to throw two linvala into the board for the matchup against naya. So thats my take on the board. The main list is already posted, on like 13/14
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I've tried a lot of this deck. While it is SILLY explosive, it shouldnt be "Oh hey I missed my quest. Well G2 go!" I like 3-4x 4x kor skyfisher and 4x glinthawk are a must IMO, and possibly even 2-3x Squad hawks. Oh and 4x steppe lynx and adventuring armor. This deck is trying to rape face early and hard. If you dont quest in your opening hand, you will still have options.
Squadron Hawks are by no means a must. I've found them sub-par in all of my testing. However, 4 Skyfisher and Glint Hawk are a must. Steppe Lynx and Adventuring Gear are "meh" in everything I've seen. Both require lands to activate, which isn't what you want when you're trying to win... you want the sure thing. I'd take Kitesail, Duelist, or SoW over Steppe Lynx any time.
4 Quest for the Holy Relic
Equipment (4)
1 Sword of Vengeance
1 Trusty Machete
2 Argentum Armor
Creatures (25)
4 Ornithoptor
2 Memnite
3 Kor Duelist
4 Glint Hawk
4 Squadron Hawk
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Kor Skyfisher
3 Kor Outfitter
3 Emerge Unscathed
2 Journey to Nowhere
Land (22)
3 Tectonic Edge
19 Plains
4 Kor Firewalker
4 Celestial Purge
3 Kor Sanctifiers
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Kor Duelist
That looks really really strong. Would you mind if I sleeved it up and tried it out at FNM this week?
I like emerge unscathed, journey, and tectonic edge. I think they are great additions.
Lands
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Tectonic Edge
8 Plains
2 Islands
Creatures
4 Glint Hawk
3 Myrsmith
4 Etched Champion
4 Memnite
3 Trinket Mage
4 Ornithopter
2 Steel Overseer
None-Creatures
4 Tempered Steel
2 Argentum Armor
2 Chimeric Mass
3 Mox Opal
1 Brittle Effigy
4 Quest for the Holy Relic
Side
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Unified Will
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Infiltration Lens
3 Revoke Existence
After testing WW and then this, Holy Relic is always a turn two. this build has not failed me yet
Sure, an artifact heavy slant helps to deal with DoJ if you have an aggro hand by recovering afterward. But it also slants heavily away from the core objective of popping the quest. I did enjoy having a pretty solid mid-game against the dedicated list, but splashing blue does a better job of making use of your cards by allowing you to both filter (via riddle smith) and tutor for more creatures (Trinket Mage).
So, personally feeling is in strong agreement with splashing blue rather then to cut further into the theme to make room for an often dead enchantment if they land a DoJ. And trust me, while the counters from blue/white control were bothersome they didn't mean anything compared to them wiping my board.
HeyItsKC, your list looks inconsistent. It's low on creatures compared to the other lists posted, noting that Myrsmith only floods the board and doesn't particularly help with getting the quest off (as the ability doesn't cast the creature). Tempered Steel, Brittle Effigy, Mox Opal's, and Chimeric Mass don't help with the quest so I'm surprised your even still running it at this point as you've heavily cut into the theme.
I mean, it's an interesting deck and could god-hand a little more often then WW. But it looks like you would have a lot of problems with the deck, so I'm surprised it's worked so well for you.
So yes opal and steel dont work in the WW mystic version. but if one would want it to work it would have to be more artifact heavy and pull away from 6-8 equipment mystic/outfitter everyone is running too have +2/+2 to your artifacts
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
Manabase apears fine, though personally I would try to run 2x Celestial Colonnade in place of 2x Island because I like the idea of running them, sort of a late game back-up plan.
Personally I'm not fond of running Preordain, it only provides pseudo card advantage. It also isn't a creature, so it doesn't exactly work toward the main theme in the deck (in effect it harms it). But I do get why you want to run it, either sift into a quest early on (and bank heavily on the quest) or into other creatures so you can reliably pop the quest. I would rather run a couple Stoneforge Mystic in the mainboard and a couple Kor Outfitter as a reliable alternative to the quest as well as for adding more creatures.
From the look of it you basically replaced a large amount of the equip subtheme with counters and draw power, taking the deck from an early game deck into mid to late game while relying on small creatures. I can't say that is wise, as you lose the edge in terms of effective creatures around turn 3 and without having the edge in terms of equips you basically just have to hope a few select counters throws your opponents off their game.
Still, the flying theme could work out well enough. Maybe more work on that and use the quest as a subtheme would work out better, as you would rush with fliers in the early game and run out that enchantment to maintain relevance in the mid-game (or counters to stop/stall a DoJ). Still, to go that route you need to look into making your own thread as a different deck.
The basic idea behind my build is that Stoneforge Mystic/Kor Outfitter is a cool idea that doesn't work.* Therefore, why not run as much scry as possible to find quest? Then, when you play it, you can interact with your opponent's strategy in ways that aren't just 'I attack into your face, HAH'. E.G.: in the prospective mirror, I can counter Stoneforge Mystic. [Or, funnily enough, Kor Outfitter.] And the flying subtheme w/Shift is just kind of there to take advantage of afterwards.
It isn't 'WW+Affinity', though, so I suppose it doesn't exactly belong in this thread. Perhaps I'll make a different one if I can develop it a bit more and make sure it's a viable direction.
@ other suggestions: I want to play Colonnade but it's difficult with the aggro theme of the deck [CITP kills]. Possibly cutting a Glacial Fortress, an Island, and a Plains? Or something like that. [I want to cut 3 lands so I can play 2 Colonnades and a third Gravitational Shift. ... Shift is so bad. And yet it is so good.]
*: As a backup to quest, that is. And obviously this is IMHO/the majority of people here disagree with me. Mystic needs to, you know, not die [so it can tap-cast the Armor]: it exposes you to drawing the second armor: and this comes out on turn 4 at the earliest, with every step eminently disruptible. My expectation is that every single deck you play against will either kill the mystic before it plants the armor down [red,black, or white?] or counter the Outfitter[anything blue?]: if they don't, they're way too non-interactive, probably kept a bad hand, and you should beat the crap out of them anyways. Works pretty well against Eldrazi Green, I'd guess? Long story short: secondary combo hasn't been too helpful in testing. [Though I do like Outfitter against removal.]
If I was running WW I'd just run all the best 1 and 2-drops, Adventuring Gear, and Honor of the Pure/Brave the Elements. And then I would run people over as my backup plan. Screw Quest and Mystic and Outfitter, the combo's nice when it works, but otherwise you can have a grand old time smacking people for 4 turn 2, dropping 2 more 1-drops [or a great 2-drop], and third turn Adventuring Gear+equip or Honor of the Pure-swinging at their face for a bunch.
@below: No room for the Squadron Hawks, I think [what would you cut? Augury Owl? It's pretty great], though I would love to run them [it also kind of messes w/ the scrying subtheme but who cares, Hawk is good]. I honestly don't have much of a problem getting counters on the quest when i draw it, I do run 20 creatures [with 8 of them letting me replay other creatures], and Preordain replaces itself and finds another creature if I need fairly quickly [Augury Owl finds more creatures too].
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=467049
UB Control
"I saved a life... my own. Am I a hero? I can’t really say...... but, yes."
-Michael Scott
I'm playing a similar list as FNG:
4 Quest for the Holy Relic
Equipment (5)
1 Sword of Vengeance
1 Infiltration Lens
1 Trusty Machete
2 Argentum Armor
Creatures (24)
4 Ornithopter
2 Memnite
3 Kor Duelist
4 Glint Hawk
1 Kemba, Kha Regent
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Kor Skyfisher
3 Kor Outfitter
2 Ichorclaw Myr
3 Emerge Unscathed
2 Journey to Nowhere
Land (22)
3 Tectonic Edge
19 Plains
4 Kor Firewalker
4 Celestial Purge
3 Kor Sanctifiers
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Kor Duelist
I don't like Squadron Hawks at all. I opted for Ichorclaw Myr + Infiltration Lens, since I often get advantage with this cards against a variety of decks. Equipping Argentum Aggro on it with Infiltration Lens is pretty insane.
Meanwhile, has anyone considered Nym Deathmantle for card advantage? Gives you something to do if you run out of cards, gives you protection against over extending. Admittedly, kind of pricey for the deck.
Also, what about Livewire Lash in place of Trusty Machete? One more to cast, it trades one toughness for punishing the opponent for using spell removal. Might be worth considering depending on the meta.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
run some white knights, silence or devout lightcaster in your sb
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
I hope this isn't in here on the presumption that it will help feed Quest. It does not. Quest stipulates "Cast a creature spell". Otherwise I don't really see the point to this in here.
i think with VERY little further design/new cards, this will be a fairly potent combo.
Memnite offering another free creature, along with Glint Hawk being another Skyfisher and an excellent creature makes this combo seem fairly reliable and quite powerful. My only main concern is that one board wipe, and at a low CMC on the creatures, Ratchet Bomb, Consume the Meek, All is Dust, and Ratchet Bomb will all take care of most of the threats and leave you in a (generally) unrecoverable position, and this deck isn't generally so fast that you're swinging for lethal on turn 3 or 4.
I think this deck, right now, is very reminiscent to Pre-M11 Valakut decks - It's pretty darn good, but not Tier 1. I will definitely be building this as a casual deck, since it's a very easy, inexpensive build, and it's fun.
In conclusion, I DO think that Argentium Armor and the Sword offer two powerful targets for Quest for the Holy Relic, and we can only expect to see more powerful equipments in the next set, and this build absolutely merits continuous observation and experimentation.
Currently Playing:
UW UW Control
WR Tempered Steel
GR Valakut Ramp
G Elves
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Why only 3 Kor Skyfishers? From my experience, he's the difference between 3 and 5 counters on your quest.
RWBoros LandfallWR
GWRG/w/r Fauna ShamanRWG
In other words, if you have the cards and want to run the deck then go for it. Not like one week of only doing ok is going to hurt you.
relic
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Indomitable Archangel
2 Luminarch Ascension
3 Turn Aside
3 Etched Champion
4 Unified Will
I found that I actually don't need the luminarch ascension as the deck is faster than that. I don't know exactly what I'm putting in there yet, maybe 1 more archangel and 1 sword of body and mind. Could potentially change the lifestaff too, haven't gotten to play to much against mono red. This deck trounces control matchups pretty well, and it is more aggressive than Valakut or Eldrazi ramp, so i mean. I'm thinking i might want to throw two linvala into the board for the matchup against naya. So thats my take on the board. The main list is already posted, on like 13/14
UB Control
"I saved a life... my own. Am I a hero? I can’t really say...... but, yes."
-Michael Scott