Reading people's posts entirely is a pretty good idea. Notice how I said run 2 of each, making a total of 4 non-green lands. 8 is too many and I agree with you, four on the other hand is perfectly fine.
You should never use, "It dies to removal" as a reason to not include a card. Everything in this game of magic loses to removal at the right time. Having a man land is not only useful against board wipes, but also taking out fatties you don't want on the board, protecting your planeswalkers and alpha striking. It's just another tool in your tool box of win.
My bad on the land count, it was late at night.
I am usually against "Dies to removal" argument, in this case it isn't just removal - every single threat on type 2 will kill it, the only threat this is going to kill is vengevine which can easily be restored. Have you tested your idea? (I am not trying to be offensive, I genuinely want to know if this worked out for you).
Just tested my version today, and it was greattt!!!
4-1 vs Naya Allies
Though I get really annoyed by Kabira Evangel and Talus Paladin, but with 2x Overrun by Ezuri, and 1x Overrun by Garruk, he just said wow and ready for the next match.
7-2 vs Mono White Artifact
Believe it or not, I just get sucked by 2 Tempered Steel and I still alive and win the game That's because of Ezuri, I really like his regen ability. And in one game vs this deck, I can have Nissa did her ultimate, with 1 Ezuri in play and 2 Archdruids I had before
===============================
It's been great to see Elfdrazi is getting more improved. I know that someday the deck will break the metagame
I think Tectonic Edge is certainly not a bad call, but no more than 2 of them. And Dread Sanctuary? Ofc not, the single man-land i'd add to this deck is Treetop Village ^^
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Astral Slide remains the coolest card to build a deck around"
I worked on a elfdrazi trap deck who had performed pretty well until our dayz and more with new counterspell as Mana Leak and Stoic Rebuttal, I think it's gonna be sweet.
-No fetchland in this deck because of new cat Leonin Arbiter,plus he can hurt nissa 1st abilities a lil bit
-Only 10 non-creature non-land cards to abuse of oracle and channelers and insure a good trap
-Only two Oran-Rief because 4of slowing too much the deck
- You can see all my trap beast can be hardcast and it happened a lot
So, there is lot a different way to kill your opponents: playing the trap, the two overrun effect and the monument and off course elves.
Actually It's one of my favorite version I'd played.
I'll see who it performs in the new meta
So guyz or girlz too if you have any advice or tips dont be shy
I think your deck tries to do too many things at once, you run 20 lands and Emrakul, most elfdrazi decks run 21-23 lands and still never reach 15 mana in a real game. Summoning trap might help you with this but I still think to raise your land count to at least 23, also if you run ramp Joraga Treespeaker is very important, can you explain the Tel-Jilad Fallen in the side?
I don't like the list, seems a bit cultured and disorganized, if they remove your early ramp you can easily get stuck with large amount of high costed cards and no means to cast them.
I have already hardcast Emrakul several times and more with the trap but its true that is tuff and impossible without 2 or more Archdruid on board.
20 land is enough to my mind, and Joraga Treespeaker is very bad to me.
Do you know why?
Because if you play Treespeaker T1, it avoid you an Archdruid or a Channelers on T2 and actually that what we are searching for...
Dude, I know who to play magic and so i don't play all my hand as a goldfish and used to keep some ressources, and more in Elfdrazi when you used to have position on board since the beginning.
I hope you know that.
btw after a board sweeper the Mul Daya Channelers (and off course a creatures on top of your library) is a very strong play to my mind.
As I said we'll see for the side, I quote the Tel-Jilad Fallen because of Scars preview where it has been powerfull even if it was in scealed format.
I don't care if my opponent gains 4 life and it already happen to me, use it to destroy my own monument (and gain 4 life),to keep my last elf alive when my opponent blasted one of my elf in response to monument and played a gatekeeper on his turn . True story
I also prefer spend one mana than two for almost the same effect actually.
Tel Jilad Fallen has no place in any elf deck, even as a sideboard option. I get that you want something vs. Artifact decks, but keep in mind, elfdrazi is already a much stronger aggro deck than any artifact build is right now. Why would you waste a sideboard slot for that?
As far as hardcasting emrakul, well, you're playing really bad opponents if you can hardcast an emrakul, and at that point in the game, you probably could have won without casting the emrakul. Therefore, it's a dead card regardless, even with summoning trap (which isn't a bad choice in your deck, but it's not worth adding 3 emrakul just because of the trap).
Joraga Treespeaker doens't get you an archdruid on t2, but you're looking at it the wrong way. Treespeaker accounts for the mana production of 2 Llanowar elves. This boosts your curve in the long run, without having to play more weenies. Ideally, you would play a treespeaker on turn 2 in the occasion that you don't have an archdruid in hand as they both give you the ability to play a 6 mana card on turn 3.
Tel Jilad Fallen has no place in any elf deck, even as a sideboard option. I get that you want something vs. Artifact decks, but keep in mind, elfdrazi is already a much stronger aggro deck than any artifact build is right now. Why would you waste a sideboard slot for that?
As far as hardcasting emrakul, well, you're playing really bad opponents if you can hardcast an emrakul, and at that point in the game, you probably could have won without casting the emrakul. Therefore, it's a dead card regardless, even with summoning trap (which isn't a bad choice in your deck, but it's not worth adding 3 emrakul just because of the trap).
Joraga Treespeaker doens't get you an archdruid on t2, but you're looking at it the wrong way. Treespeaker accounts for the mana production of 2 Llanowar elves. This boosts your curve in the long run, without having to play more weenies. Ideally, you would play a treespeaker on turn 2 in the occasion that you don't have an archdruid in hand as they both give you the ability to play a 6 mana card on turn 3.
Agreed with above. Treespeaker lets you get enough mana for a t3 archdruid/Ezuri with Vines backup, plus an extra one mana elf.
Ezuri is simply amazing. First of all, he's an elf with overrun built in, which means he can attack with your other elves, you can overrun several turns in a row if necessary, and you can overrun multiple times in the same turn if necessary. Second, he can regenerate your other elves - if you drop him with a few mana open, especially with Vines in hand, not only does Day of Judgment not ruin your day, but you can block and regenerate your elves all day long against aggro decks. The legendary status comes up every once in a while, but it's not a biggie with only 3.
I don't think this deck needs Fauna Shaman, though it might be possible to build an elf deck featuring her and a toolbox. (Wolfbriar Elemental might be nice as a one-of to search up when you have a lot of mana.)
I've been testing on MWS, and while I haven't faced a control deck yet, every aggro match has come out in my favor. 12 mana elves just makes you too fast. The 4 Monuments are also great, even with only the Nissas (which make Chosen and gain tons of life, so are really good) to make a constant engine.
The sideboard is still under construction. Autumn's Veil is great as anti-counterspell and extra protection vs. blue and black, though I think they simply replace Vines in that matchup. I know I'm going to want artifact/enchantment removal, though I'm not sure if I want Acidic Slime or Naturalize. Ratchet Bomb might be useful against metalcraft aggro with Memnites, though that matchup is pretty decent already. I'm leaning away from Mimic Vat and Summoning Trap, as none of the creatures on their own are very exciting. Nim Deathmantle could provide extra recursion and evasion for the lategame - if you have 8 mana, you can revive 2 creatures, 12 mana 3, and so on.
As a connoisseur of fun, interesting matches, I still to this day have not been able to craft that "perfect deck"; the deck that I can play and have fun over time, doesn't get boring, but simultaneously is fun to play against. I honestly don't think it exists. It's like a unicorn. A ninja unicorn.
I have already hardcast Emrakul several times and more with the trap but its true that is tuff and impossible without 2 or more Archdruid on board.
I don't care if my opponent gains 4 life and it already happen to me, use it to destroy my own monument (and gain 4 life),to keep my last elf alive when my opponent blasted one of my elf in response to monument and played a gatekeeper on his turn . True story
I also prefer spend one mana than two for almost the same effect actually.
if you have 2 or more archdruid in play you probably won the game anyway, Archdruid is the largest threat in the deck as it is enabling really crazy stuff.
Have you won that game? cause you were in a tight position if you had to destroy your own monument.
Ezuri is simply amazing. First of all, he's an elf with overrun built in, which means he can attack with your other elves, you can overrun several turns in a row if necessary, and you can overrun multiple times in the same turn if necessary. Second, he can regenerate your other elves - if you drop him with a few mana open, especially with Vines in hand, not only does Day of Judgment not ruin your day, but you can block and regenerate your elves all day long against aggro decks. The legendary status comes up every once in a while, but it's not a biggie with only 3.
I don't think this deck needs Fauna Shaman, though it might be possible to build an elf deck featuring her and a toolbox. (Wolfbriar Elemental might be nice as a one-of to search up when you have a lot of mana.)
I've been testing on MWS, and while I haven't faced a control deck yet, every aggro match has come out in my favor. 12 mana elves just makes you too fast. The 4 Monuments are also great, even with only the Nissas (which make Chosen and gain tons of life, so are really good) to make a constant engine.
The sideboard is still under construction. Autumn's Veil is great as anti-counterspell and extra protection vs. blue and black, though I think they simply replace Vines in that matchup. I know I'm going to want artifact/enchantment removal, though I'm not sure if I want Acidic Slime or Naturalize. Ratchet Bomb might be useful against metalcraft aggro with Memnites, though that matchup is pretty decent already. I'm leaning away from Mimic Vat and Summoning Trap, as none of the creatures on their own are very exciting. Nim Deathmantle could provide extra recursion and evasion for the lategame - if you have 8 mana, you can revive 2 creatures, 12 mana 3, and so on.
I must aggre with everything you said
Yes that's a very true that today's Elfdrazi don't really need Fauna Shaman. It costs 2, and can only active it's ability on the next turn, plus it need one additional mana which make it kind of slow. Without it I'd see that the elves already really fast and annoying, I just tested it with 2 decks (see result above).
As for the deck, you need 8 fetch lands. I know it sounds like a bit greedy, but the fetchlands are just great. They can make our spells (read: Ezuri) comes faster.
Also you should try Copperhorn Scout. Though without Ezuri and Archdruid it's kinda useless, but it can make all other elves 'vigilance' which is quite annoying for an aggro deck.
Yes that's a very true that today's Elfdrazi don't really need Fauna Shaman. It costs 2, and can only active it's ability on the next turn, plus it need one additional mana which make it kind of slow. Without it I'd see that the elves already really fast and annoying, I just tested it with 2 decks (see result above).
As for the deck, you need 8 fetch lands. I know it sounds like a bit greedy, but the fetchlands are just great. They can make our spells (read: Ezuri) comes faster.
Also you should try Copperhorn Scout. Though without Ezuri and Archdruid it's kinda useless, but it can make all other elves 'vigilance' which is quite annoying for an aggro deck.
Fauna Shaman is an extremely powerful engine, that's also a body for Overrun to pump. I can't believe you would suggest cutting her ;~;. Why not play Shaman and a couple Vengevines in the slots you have for Nissa? You never really want a turn 2 Chosen, but turn 2 Shaman and turn 4 Vengevine are both fine plays and both engines set you up for considerable card advantage down the road.
I'd like to suggest adding Sylvan Ranger. He helps you hit 5 mana while remaining a body for Ezuri/Monument to buff, and he's tutorable with Fauna Shaman.
The thing I worry about with some of these lists (8 +1mana elves, 4 Treespeakers) is how your threat density will play out. You don't need 12 mana elves to still have explosive potential in your deck, and adding more beyond a threshold dilutes your chances more than it raises them. If you can always hit 6 mana on turn 3... what are you going to do with it? You're not playing Primeval Titan, you're playing Monument, and Monument on turn 3 sucks.
now i know there is no sideboard but i want to see what the meta will look like before i choose. and i know it is 63 cards but i just drew this up this morning
thanx
now i know there is no sideboard but i want to see what the meta will look like before i choose. and i know it is 63 cards but i just drew this up this morning
thanx
You only need 3 Nissa's Chosen, since the card Nissa's chosen really isn't all too great without Nissa herself.
Infiltration lens has no place in this deck. Nobody is going to chump block a 2/2 attacking elf.
I don't think Contagion Clasp is a good play here. What's the point? If you really want removal, splash black or white as they give you better options without a real risk of mana screw.
I would cut out tanglewurm also. It's bad. At a cost of 7, there are about 20 other creatures that would be better to play. Wurmcoil Engine, Precursor Golem, Mitotic Slime, Khalni Hydra would all be better choices to add a few big beaters that are tough to deal with regardless of eldrazi monument.
I'm still meh on Genesis wave. Seems win more to me still. I don't see why simply playing a Wolfbriar wouldn't be a better play given the mana commitment you need for Genesis wave, not to mention you'll likely get duplicates of planeswalkers, monuments, or useless lands.
Yes that's a very true that today's Elfdrazi don't really need Fauna Shaman. It costs 2, and can only active it's ability on the next turn, plus it need one additional mana which make it kind of slow. Without it I'd see that the elves already really fast and annoying, I just tested it with 2 decks (see result above).
As for the deck, you need 8 fetch lands. I know it sounds like a bit greedy, but the fetchlands are just great. They can make our spells (read: Ezuri) comes faster.
Also you should try Copperhorn Scout. Though without Ezuri and Archdruid it's kinda useless, but it can make all other elves 'vigilance' which is quite annoying for an aggro deck.
Hadn't thought about Copperhorn freeing up land to regenerate with Ezuri.
I think Fauna shaman is and always will be a great card. However, it needs to be played in the right deck. I play Green/White splashing white for Elspeth, Baneslayer, Sunblast Angel, (boardsweep attached to a big body is hilarious) as well as Linvala. So Fauna Shaman helps me a ton. But in a more aggro-centric build, I agree, it's not necessary.
Bellowing Tanglewurm is actually pretty interesting -- "Green creatures you control are unblockable" is obviously insane and a significant part of what makes Eldrazi Monument itself so good. He's bad-to-terrible against the mirror, Vengevine or ramp MUs (Khalni Garden tokens and Primeval Titan can all still block), but boy is he good against White/Blue.
@cbus: I think you're thinking of a different card, Bellowing Tanglewurm costs 5 and gives your Green creatures Intimidate.
Hadn't thought about Copperhorn freeing up land to regenerate with Ezuri.
I think Fauna shaman is and always will be a great card. However, it needs to be played in the right deck. I play Green/White splashing white for Elspeth, Baneslayer, Sunblast Angel, (boardsweep attached to a big body is hilarious) as well as Linvala. So Fauna Shaman helps me a ton. But in a more aggro-centric build, I agree, it's not necessary.
Fauna shaman is absolutley needed. Playing 8 archdruids is very important along with being able to tutor up vengevines to grind out uw. Getting ezuri is good as well
Fauna Shaman is an extremely powerful engine, that's also a body for Overrun to pump. I can't believe you would suggest cutting her ;~;. Why not play Shaman and a couple Vengevines in the slots you have for Nissa? You never really want a turn 2 Chosen, but turn 2 Shaman and turn 4 Vengevine are both fine plays and both engines set you up for considerable card advantage down the road.
I'd like to suggest adding Sylvan Ranger. He helps you hit 5 mana while remaining a body for Ezuri/Monument to buff, and he's tutorable with Fauna Shaman.
The thing I worry about with some of these lists (8 +1mana elves, 4 Treespeakers) is how your threat density will play out. You don't need 12 mana elves to still have explosive potential in your deck, and adding more beyond a threshold dilutes your chances more than it raises them. If you can always hit 6 mana on turn 3... what are you going to do with it? You're not playing Primeval Titan, you're playing Monument, and Monument on turn 3 sucks.
For Fauna Shaman, it's only a matter of choice to make what version of Elfdrazi we're going to played. Mine doesn't need it because it's already too fast.
Yeah Sylvan Ranger is good. It's just a good substitute for Elvish Visionary.
Hadn't thought about Copperhorn freeing up land to regenerate with Ezuri.
I think Fauna shaman is and always will be a great card. However, it needs to be played in the right deck. I play Green/White splashing white for Elspeth, Baneslayer, Sunblast Angel, (boardsweep attached to a big body is hilarious) as well as Linvala. So Fauna Shaman helps me a ton. But in a more aggro-centric build, I agree, it's not necessary.
This! Is so damn right. I must say again, Fauna Shaman isn't a must in this deck. If you disagree, you must test my Elfdrazi version and see how fast is it.
Simple: First because you don't have draw spells, so drying your deck might be the best option to get a useful card each turn. And since you don't need too many lands it is not required to draw them every turn. Second, again about drying your deck, so you have a higher chance to hit nonland permanents when using Genesis Wave.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Astral Slide remains the coolest card to build a deck around"
Fauna Shaman in this deck is amazing in my oppinion. Nissa Revene seems way too slow/not good which i would run instead of Fauna/Vengevines. Copperhorn Scout is pretty situational, attacking with ezuri to overrun/regenerate Fauna shaman multiple times etc makes it a good tutor target but I wouldn't go above 2 in the deck even if you didn't include fauna shaman in the deck. I think Genesis wave isn't exactly needed but going over the possible situations where it could be really good made me include it... the upside of breaking attrition war or even x=2 after a DoJ where you can only save an archdruid and another elf, genesis wave into monument... the upside of the card seems too good not to include but not more then 2 of. We will see how the format shapes up after states but I definetely think Elves has a place in that format.
Fauna Shaman isn't needed. I play Valakut and Elfdrazi was one of my toughest match ups (I say was because now with the new meta decks are going to chance a bit, especially Valakut, and it will be difficult to gauge what the toughest matchups will now be), with the variants that didn't run Fauna being the toughest matchup of all. If I don't draw my removal (run 4 Bolt and Pyroclasm sideboard), or the removal only has a limited effect, a battery of Nissa's, an Archdruid, a few mana dorks, and one or two other random elves on T4 means my only shot at a win is All is Dust. The deck really is brutally fast.
This is just a stupid question. Do you have any reasonable excuses why we don't need any? I don't wanna hear "becaause it deals damage to us."
For Fauna Shaman, it's only a matter of choice to make what version of Elfdrazi we're going to played. Mine doesn't need it because it's already too fast.
Yeah Sylvan Ranger is good. It's just a good substitute for Elvish Visionary.
This! Is so damn right. I must say again, Fauna Shaman isn't a must in this deck. If you disagree, you must test my Elfdrazi version and see how fast is it.
About Bellowing Tanglewurm, it is worthy enough to be put in sideboard. It's just like another winning condition against UW Control or Big Red.
Withstand Death also is good, it protect Ezuri from any harm of mass removal like Day of Judgment.
Tajuru Preserver, against eldrazis and All is Dust.
I find your reasoning to be stupid. It's like "derp, all the best decks run fetch, I need to too. Spending more money makes me a better player.You must be a noob.Derp.".
How about they statistically cost you games, since the card advantage is very slight and the damage is quite relevant against faster decks?
They've done the math (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/print.asp?ID=3096) and the deck thinning theory is a myth. Would you play an artifact that cost zero, cantriped and said When this card comes into play, pay 4 life. In 20 turns (if you're still alive), draw a card. Because I wouldn't.
If you're not running any land fall effects, need the colour fixing, or need the graveyard / shuffle manipulation (none of which we need) fetch lands are an unnecessary waste of money, life and time.
I own a full set of fetches, yet don't play them in Elfdrazi because it doesn't make sense.
They've done the math (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/print.asp?ID=3096) and the deck thinning theory is a myth. Would you play an artifact that cost zero, cantriped and said When this card comes into play, pay 4 life. In 20 turns (if you're still alive), draw a card. Because I wouldn't.
Still, I don't think the deck thinning is worth for Elfdrazi at all.
I did the math and fetches will come into play about 15% of games I would play in terms of not drawing a land and will do about 2 points of damage per game, not to mention all the extra shuffling. You can't really sideboard them out so I figured 2 points of damage every game wasn't worth maybe getting an extra card every 6 or 7 games. Not to mention with SOM there is fetch hate, so just add that to the mix!
I have been running and elf deck with Vengevine in it since Vengevine was released and it really makes elves decks somewhat resistant to removal. But here is the deck I like to run.
So Last rotation season I Ran a next level Elfdrazi deck and it was based off of Using BBE to power the vengevine engine. But right now as people see we do not have Bloodbraid Elf anymore.
That is a good and bad thing. Bad for the obvious reason, but good because the manabase is going to be a lot more stable.
My philosphy with elf decks is do not depend so much on mana dorks, but depend on beefier creatures or creatures that can beefier quicker. Mul Daya channler is a major card in my deck because it is a potential 5/5 for 3 that can come out on turn 2. But they're has to be ways to make sure a creature is showing at almost all times. Hence the reason why the deck runs Oracle of Mul Daya, and Nissa Revane. If a creature is not showing and lets say I have 4 mana and a nissa revane in my hand, I can drop Nissa, fetch out my Nissa's chosen, then shuffle up the deck and get a another shot of a creature showing.
Also the deck has 9 one drops to help power out vengevines. Ezuri helps with the overrun that can be done twice the same turn.
But the tech I really love in this deck is Mimic Vat. Think because of the nature of Eldrazi Monument, we are going to have creatures enter the graveyard from the battlefield all the time. Also before the monument comes out we are susceptible to board wipes. Mimic vats allows us to exile a creature when it goes into the graveyard, and then every turn copy it got 3 with haste. So how would you like to Copy your Ezuri for 3 every turn, and if you have the mana available do and overrun. Lets say Elvish archdruid was removed, we can bring it back in with haste to tap for mana every turn for 3. Heck we can even copy vengvine and play him for 3 every turn. But even more potentially viscious we can take other player's creatures from they're graveyard as well. Mimic vats seems like something that works so nice with elves.
Sideboard is based around our weaknesses. We are weak to counters, so Autumn's veil and summoning trap are in the sideboard to help us stop that problem. We are week to enchantments on our Eldrazi monument. nature's claim is there to help us destroy enchantments. We are susceptble to early game spot removal. Withstand death is there to help us stave off early game bolts and doom blades. Green usually has a limited access to removal. So ratchet bomb is there to help us with the removal front. Nature's Spiral allows me to fetch out my monument, vat, planeswalkers, and elves once they get destroyed.
And on the whole Fauna Shaman being a must in this deck is not true but not false. To me it is personal Preference. I am not someone who cares all that much about fetching a creature out of my library. To me it slows the deck down. But other people have tested it and it has worked out real well. So to me there is no wrong or right about fauna shaman.
"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
My bad on the land count, it was late at night.
I am usually against "Dies to removal" argument, in this case it isn't just removal - every single threat on type 2 will kill it, the only threat this is going to kill is vengevine which can easily be restored. Have you tested your idea? (I am not trying to be offensive, I genuinely want to know if this worked out for you).
4-1 vs Naya Allies
Though I get really annoyed by Kabira Evangel and Talus Paladin, but with 2x Overrun by Ezuri, and 1x Overrun by Garruk, he just said wow and ready for the next match.
7-2 vs Mono White Artifact
Believe it or not, I just get sucked by 2 Tempered Steel and I still alive and win the game That's because of Ezuri, I really like his regen ability. And in one game vs this deck, I can have Nissa did her ultimate, with 1 Ezuri in play and 2 Archdruids I had before
===============================
It's been great to see Elfdrazi is getting more improved. I know that someday the deck will break the metagame
I think your deck tries to do too many things at once, you run 20 lands and Emrakul, most elfdrazi decks run 21-23 lands and still never reach 15 mana in a real game. Summoning trap might help you with this but I still think to raise your land count to at least 23, also if you run ramp Joraga Treespeaker is very important, can you explain the Tel-Jilad Fallen in the side?
I don't like the list, seems a bit cultured and disorganized, if they remove your early ramp you can easily get stuck with large amount of high costed cards and no means to cast them.
PS: Why Nature's Claim over naturalize? the 1 mana doesn't seem like a big difference
Tel Jilad Fallen has no place in any elf deck, even as a sideboard option. I get that you want something vs. Artifact decks, but keep in mind, elfdrazi is already a much stronger aggro deck than any artifact build is right now. Why would you waste a sideboard slot for that?
As far as hardcasting emrakul, well, you're playing really bad opponents if you can hardcast an emrakul, and at that point in the game, you probably could have won without casting the emrakul. Therefore, it's a dead card regardless, even with summoning trap (which isn't a bad choice in your deck, but it's not worth adding 3 emrakul just because of the trap).
Joraga Treespeaker doens't get you an archdruid on t2, but you're looking at it the wrong way. Treespeaker accounts for the mana production of 2 Llanowar elves. This boosts your curve in the long run, without having to play more weenies. Ideally, you would play a treespeaker on turn 2 in the occasion that you don't have an archdruid in hand as they both give you the ability to play a 6 mana card on turn 3.
Agreed with above. Treespeaker lets you get enough mana for a t3 archdruid/Ezuri with Vines backup, plus an extra one mana elf.
Here's the list I've been playing around with:
4 Joraga Treespeaker
4 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Joraga Warcaller
3 Nissa's Chosen
4 Nissa Revane
4 Vines of the Vastwood
4 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
18 Forest
Ezuri is simply amazing. First of all, he's an elf with overrun built in, which means he can attack with your other elves, you can overrun several turns in a row if necessary, and you can overrun multiple times in the same turn if necessary. Second, he can regenerate your other elves - if you drop him with a few mana open, especially with Vines in hand, not only does Day of Judgment not ruin your day, but you can block and regenerate your elves all day long against aggro decks. The legendary status comes up every once in a while, but it's not a biggie with only 3.
I don't think this deck needs Fauna Shaman, though it might be possible to build an elf deck featuring her and a toolbox. (Wolfbriar Elemental might be nice as a one-of to search up when you have a lot of mana.)
I've been testing on MWS, and while I haven't faced a control deck yet, every aggro match has come out in my favor. 12 mana elves just makes you too fast. The 4 Monuments are also great, even with only the Nissas (which make Chosen and gain tons of life, so are really good) to make a constant engine.
The sideboard is still under construction. Autumn's Veil is great as anti-counterspell and extra protection vs. blue and black, though I think they simply replace Vines in that matchup. I know I'm going to want artifact/enchantment removal, though I'm not sure if I want Acidic Slime or Naturalize. Ratchet Bomb might be useful against metalcraft aggro with Memnites, though that matchup is pretty decent already. I'm leaning away from Mimic Vat and Summoning Trap, as none of the creatures on their own are very exciting. Nim Deathmantle could provide extra recursion and evasion for the lategame - if you have 8 mana, you can revive 2 creatures, 12 mana 3, and so on.
if you have 2 or more archdruid in play you probably won the game anyway, Archdruid is the largest threat in the deck as it is enabling really crazy stuff.
Have you won that game? cause you were in a tight position if you had to destroy your own monument.
btw, why don't you raise the monument count to 3?
I must aggre with everything you said
Yes that's a very true that today's Elfdrazi don't really need Fauna Shaman. It costs 2, and can only active it's ability on the next turn, plus it need one additional mana which make it kind of slow. Without it I'd see that the elves already really fast and annoying, I just tested it with 2 decks (see result above).
As for the deck, you need 8 fetch lands. I know it sounds like a bit greedy, but the fetchlands are just great. They can make our spells (read: Ezuri) comes faster.
Also you should try Copperhorn Scout. Though without Ezuri and Archdruid it's kinda useless, but it can make all other elves 'vigilance' which is quite annoying for an aggro deck.
I'd like to suggest adding Sylvan Ranger. He helps you hit 5 mana while remaining a body for Ezuri/Monument to buff, and he's tutorable with Fauna Shaman.
The thing I worry about with some of these lists (8 +1mana elves, 4 Treespeakers) is how your threat density will play out. You don't need 12 mana elves to still have explosive potential in your deck, and adding more beyond a threshold dilutes your chances more than it raises them. If you can always hit 6 mana on turn 3... what are you going to do with it? You're not playing Primeval Titan, you're playing Monument, and Monument on turn 3 sucks.
Elves post rotation
2 Contagion clasp
3 Eldrazi monument
2 Infiltration lens
2 Nissa revane
3 Garruk wildspeaker
Spells (6)
2 Genesis wave
4 Vine of the vast wood
15 forest
2 mystifying maze
3 oran reef the vast wood
now i know there is no sideboard but i want to see what the meta will look like before i choose. and i know it is 63 cards but i just drew this up this morning
thanx
You only need 3 Nissa's Chosen, since the card Nissa's chosen really isn't all too great without Nissa herself.
Infiltration lens has no place in this deck. Nobody is going to chump block a 2/2 attacking elf.
I don't think Contagion Clasp is a good play here. What's the point? If you really want removal, splash black or white as they give you better options without a real risk of mana screw.
I would cut out tanglewurm also. It's bad. At a cost of 7, there are about 20 other creatures that would be better to play. Wurmcoil Engine, Precursor Golem, Mitotic Slime, Khalni Hydra would all be better choices to add a few big beaters that are tough to deal with regardless of eldrazi monument.
I'm still meh on Genesis wave. Seems win more to me still. I don't see why simply playing a Wolfbriar wouldn't be a better play given the mana commitment you need for Genesis wave, not to mention you'll likely get duplicates of planeswalkers, monuments, or useless lands.
Hadn't thought about Copperhorn freeing up land to regenerate with Ezuri.
I think Fauna shaman is and always will be a great card. However, it needs to be played in the right deck. I play Green/White splashing white for Elspeth, Baneslayer, Sunblast Angel, (boardsweep attached to a big body is hilarious) as well as Linvala. So Fauna Shaman helps me a ton. But in a more aggro-centric build, I agree, it's not necessary.
@cbus: I think you're thinking of a different card, Bellowing Tanglewurm costs 5 and gives your Green creatures Intimidate.
Fauna shaman is absolutley needed. Playing 8 archdruids is very important along with being able to tutor up vengevines to grind out uw. Getting ezuri is good as well
This is just a stupid question. Do you have any reasonable excuses why we don't need any? I don't wanna hear "becaause it deals damage to us."
For Fauna Shaman, it's only a matter of choice to make what version of Elfdrazi we're going to played. Mine doesn't need it because it's already too fast.
Yeah Sylvan Ranger is good. It's just a good substitute for Elvish Visionary.
This! Is so damn right. I must say again, Fauna Shaman isn't a must in this deck. If you disagree, you must test my Elfdrazi version and see how fast is it.
==================================================================
About Bellowing Tanglewurm, it is worthy enough to be put in sideboard. It's just like another winning condition against UW Control or Big Red.
Withstand Death also is good, it protect Ezuri from any harm of mass removal like Day of Judgment.
Tajuru Preserver, against eldrazis and All is Dust.
Simple: First because you don't have draw spells, so drying your deck might be the best option to get a useful card each turn. And since you don't need too many lands it is not required to draw them every turn. Second, again about drying your deck, so you have a higher chance to hit nonland permanents when using Genesis Wave.
3 Eldrazi Monument
Creature
4 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Archdruid
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Joraga Treespeaker
4 Joraga Warcaller
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nissa's Chosen
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Nissa Revane
Sorcery
2 Genesis Wave
Land
16 Forest
4 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
3 Brittle Effigy
3 Autumn's Veil
3 Naturalize
3 Plummet
3 Vines of Vastwood
I originally went with three Ezuri but after a few games I quickly realized I only needed two of him to be effective.
The only thing I'm not sold on is Genesis Wave... I haven't actually drawn it yet just added it.
Experimental Kraj
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Arbor Elf
3x Joraga Treespeaker
4x Sylvan Ranger
4x Fauna Shaman
4x Elvish Archdruid
2x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4x Vengevine
1x Joraga Warcaller
1x Copperhorn Scout
1x Molten-Tail Masticore
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Eldrazi Monument
2x Genesis Wave
Land:
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
15x Forest
4x Obsinate Baloth
4x Leyline of Vitality
1x Bellowing Tanglewurm
3x Brittle Effigy
3x Naturalize
Fauna Shaman in this deck is amazing in my oppinion. Nissa Revene seems way too slow/not good which i would run instead of Fauna/Vengevines. Copperhorn Scout is pretty situational, attacking with ezuri to overrun/regenerate Fauna shaman multiple times etc makes it a good tutor target but I wouldn't go above 2 in the deck even if you didn't include fauna shaman in the deck. I think Genesis wave isn't exactly needed but going over the possible situations where it could be really good made me include it... the upside of breaking attrition war or even x=2 after a DoJ where you can only save an archdruid and another elf, genesis wave into monument... the upside of the card seems too good not to include but not more then 2 of. We will see how the format shapes up after states but I definetely think Elves has a place in that format.
4 llanowar elves
3 joraga warcaller
4 sylvan ranger
3 nissa's chosen
4 elvish archdruid
4 mul daya channelers
2 ezuri, renegade leader
3 nissa revane
2 garruk wildspeaker
3 eldrazi monument
10 forest
4 misty rainforest
3 verdant catacombs
3 oran-rief, the vastwood
4 plummet
4 naturalize
2 brittle effigy
4 autumn's veil
1 eldrazi monument
I find your reasoning to be stupid. It's like "derp, all the best decks run fetch, I need to too. Spending more money makes me a better player.You must be a noob.Derp.".
How about they statistically cost you games, since the card advantage is very slight and the damage is quite relevant against faster decks?
They've done the math (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/print.asp?ID=3096) and the deck thinning theory is a myth. Would you play an artifact that cost zero, cantriped and said When this card comes into play, pay 4 life. In 20 turns (if you're still alive), draw a card. Because I wouldn't.
If you're not running any land fall effects, need the colour fixing, or need the graveyard / shuffle manipulation (none of which we need) fetch lands are an unnecessary waste of money, life and time.
I own a full set of fetches, yet don't play them in Elfdrazi because it doesn't make sense.
Read this thread before you go posting that article:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5159588
now either that article is a fake or the Garrett Johnson on these forums is a fake.
Still, I don't think the deck thinning is worth for Elfdrazi at all.
I did the math and fetches will come into play about 15% of games I would play in terms of not drawing a land and will do about 2 points of damage per game, not to mention all the extra shuffling. You can't really sideboard them out so I figured 2 points of damage every game wasn't worth maybe getting an extra card every 6 or 7 games. Not to mention with SOM there is fetch hate, so just add that to the mix!
GGGOmnath, Locus of ManaGGG
Standard
RMyrboltR
4 llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Mul Daya Channelers
2 Joraga Warcaller
4 Vengevine
3 Nissa's Chosen
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Arbor Elf
4 Eldrazi Monument
3 Nissa Revane
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Mimic Vat
Lands (22)
4 Oran-Rief, The Vastwood
2 Tectonic Edge
16 Forest
3 Withstand Death
2 Tajuru Preserver
2 Summoning Trap
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Brittle Effigy
2 Nature's Claim
2 Sylvok Replica
So Last rotation season I Ran a next level Elfdrazi deck and it was based off of Using BBE to power the vengevine engine. But right now as people see we do not have Bloodbraid Elf anymore.
That is a good and bad thing. Bad for the obvious reason, but good because the manabase is going to be a lot more stable.
My philosphy with elf decks is do not depend so much on mana dorks, but depend on beefier creatures or creatures that can beefier quicker. Mul Daya channler is a major card in my deck because it is a potential 5/5 for 3 that can come out on turn 2. But they're has to be ways to make sure a creature is showing at almost all times. Hence the reason why the deck runs Oracle of Mul Daya, and Nissa Revane. If a creature is not showing and lets say I have 4 mana and a nissa revane in my hand, I can drop Nissa, fetch out my Nissa's chosen, then shuffle up the deck and get a another shot of a creature showing.
Also the deck has 9 one drops to help power out vengevines. Ezuri helps with the overrun that can be done twice the same turn.
But the tech I really love in this deck is Mimic Vat. Think because of the nature of Eldrazi Monument, we are going to have creatures enter the graveyard from the battlefield all the time. Also before the monument comes out we are susceptible to board wipes. Mimic vats allows us to exile a creature when it goes into the graveyard, and then every turn copy it got 3 with haste. So how would you like to Copy your Ezuri for 3 every turn, and if you have the mana available do and overrun. Lets say Elvish archdruid was removed, we can bring it back in with haste to tap for mana every turn for 3. Heck we can even copy vengvine and play him for 3 every turn. But even more potentially viscious we can take other player's creatures from they're graveyard as well. Mimic vats seems like something that works so nice with elves.
Sideboard is based around our weaknesses. We are weak to counters, so Autumn's veil and summoning trap are in the sideboard to help us stop that problem. We are week to enchantments on our Eldrazi monument. nature's claim is there to help us destroy enchantments. We are susceptble to early game spot removal. Withstand death is there to help us stave off early game bolts and doom blades. Green usually has a limited access to removal. So ratchet bomb is there to help us with the removal front. Nature's Spiral allows me to fetch out my monument, vat, planeswalkers, and elves once they get destroyed.
And on the whole Fauna Shaman being a must in this deck is not true but not false. To me it is personal Preference. I am not someone who cares all that much about fetching a creature out of my library. To me it slows the deck down. But other people have tested it and it has worked out real well. So to me there is no wrong or right about fauna shaman.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"