I'm going to challenge you on this ruling. If there are any "REAL" judges out there that can shed some light on this, that'd be greatly appreciated.
The rule that you quoted is how an OPPONENT can redirect, thats all that rule specifies. There should be another rule for a player and stating if he is indeed aloud to redirect damage like Volcanic Fallout or Earthquake to his OWN Planeswalker.
I realize this isn't any official ruling, but I just tested it on Magic Online, and it allows you to redirect your OWN Earthquake to your OWN Planeswalker.
So I'd like to hear an official ruling...
Why would they need to list all the things you can't do...?
The ruling says "212.9g If noncombat damage would be dealt to a player by a source controlled by an opponent, that opponent may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker the first player controls instead. This is a redirection effect (see rule 419.6c) and is subject to the normal rules for ordering replacement effects (see rule 419.9). The opponent chooses whether to redirect the damage as the redirection effect is applied."
It says that an opponent can redirect damage. It doesn't say that you can redirect your own damage. The comprehensive rules don't need to list every possible thing you can't do. It only states what you can do...
Yea actually I just double checked it, you guys are right, just wanted to make sure. I wasn't the first person on this form that thought you could do it. I read it on this forum, no one jumped on that guy, so I figured you could. So thanks for the clarification! Obviously I ain't a pro like you guys... I am just your average humble FNMer... lol
Its actually a common misconception, so don't sweat it. Just remember: the rules almost always specifically describe what a player CAN do, not what they CANNOT (because as HEXSOR said, that would be a very long list).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi." Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Alright i know i gonna be flamed for posting this list, but seriously it worked for me. The armillary sphere that was proposed by some unique snowflake does indeed work out and smooths the land draws.
With Jace down on the board, you could always cycle it down in the late game. It really isn't that bad since it takes out 3 cards from your library and it is like a colorless capsule most of the time. It also allows you the option to shuffle your library other than Fetchlands after you brainstormed with jace.
The Lost Truth is great late game. I understand that it can always be another Cruel Ultimatum but turn 5 Sphinx helps a lot. It filters your draws and can be taken back with Ultimatum on turn 7 if it dies, if it doesnt it serves as a good blocker.
He is so man, he is mario, and I will tell my opponents such. As and when I bounce their permanent I will exclaim "MARIO" as though he were stomped on by our mighty Jace. Every time someone kill him I will give them 99 USD (not AUS!!!) because their lightning bolt should cost 100 DOLLARS...
Jace even made it into the Teenage Super Hero Mutant Ninja Hero Turtles.
Thus far, I've been very partial to the Capsule because (1) ability to activate at instant speed on your opponent's turn (2) don't have to reveal your draws. Granted, you can probably "cheat" hunt with Jace, but not the way UW can manipulate their draws.
Any thoughts?
edit: guess I should toss my list out there so you can tear it apart...
Thus far, I've been very partial to the Capsule because (1) ability to activate at instant speed on your opponent's turn (2) don't have to reveal your draws. Granted, you can probably "cheat" hunt with Jace, but not the way UW can manipulate their draws.
Any thoughts?
Why not use Mind Spring? Definitely a must in mid/end game.
Elfdrazi has been a problem deck for me, I cannot seem to control the heavy amount of aggro the deck presents. Even with 3 Snappers and 3 EQ's it is hard to slow down the flow of creatures. Is there something I should add in? Even when I thought hemorrhage his eldrazi monuments it is still too late to grasp board control. My list is on pg.46 for reference.
Elfdrazi has been a problem deck for me, I cannot seem to control the heavy amount of aggro the deck presents. Even with 3 Snappers and 3 EQ's it is hard to slow down the flow of creatures. Is there something I should add in? Even when I thought hemorrhage his eldrazi monuments it is still too late to grasp board control. My list is on pg.46 for reference.
I don't know - I've never had that much trouble with the deck. You can't count on countering or removing eldrazi monument as a way to beat the deck - it's pretty simple sweep out the elves and little creatures and it's not bad.
At first glance, I'd definitely not run 4 scatter / 4 negate - I think I only run 6 counters main and that's been plenty against non-control matchups. Move into the roil main, without question. even if all you do is bounce a turn 2 archdruid, you're really slowing that deck down big time.
If you're really worried, Chain Reaction is solid out of the board.
In all honesty you just need to kill off the creatures and you're gravy. Biggest concern is Elvish Archdruid and things get easier from there.
Hey folks, I've been watching this thread for a while now, and have been play testing Grixis the whole time. Outside of my play test group, I finally plan on bringing my list to FNM this week.
Anyway, this is what I'm currently running and I must say I like it *a lot*
I think 4 creatures is a great number to run. I would like to test a playset of Snapper's, but I honestly don't think it's necessary. And cutting 2 spells would hinder the deck, imo.
Courier's Capsule and Divination, while not great, perform well. I tested Treasure Hunt, but this card is meant to be used with Halimar Depths/Jace2.0. I cast Treasure Hunt well over 40 times, rarely did I get 2 cards from it. I will test -1 Capsule for 1 Mind Spring, but haven't had a chance yet.
The counter magic isn't the best, and this (I feel) is where the deck lacks. Playing against aggro with 2 Negates in my hand is terrible, and vice versa. This is why I've added 2 Cancel's over Flashfreeze. So far, this has been an amazing switch. So what, you don't get to counter their turn 2 spell...that's what you have Terminate and Bolt for. I've tested Spell Contortion, but Cancel is truly better. I'm testing Traumatic Visions at the moment, but haven't had a chance to use it yet. Mana fixing or hard counter sounds pretty darn good, though.
The burn is very standard for this build, so no need to talk about it. Cruel is set to 3 because I believe 4 is too many. Drawing one opening hand isn't fun...
Sorin is the man!! He's the turning point in 85% of my games. Casting him with a Cruel in hand has always been GG.
I think there is no right or wrong sideboard - it's meant to be geared for your meta.
Here is my Grix control.
Id like to mention the one of the R/B man lands and U/B man lands is great! Iv never had a bad top deck with them, when I see them in the point of the game i have my opponent critter-less. On the other hand I have been having some trouble with the convertible turtle. because I never have the counter in hand. So what a control player todo?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
<Decks Im Running>
T2: Friends with Benefits.
EXT: ______
EDH: ______
Might Mindlock orb have a place in the SB.. you know, to shut off stoneforge mystic, knight of the requilary, and ranger of eos? Downside is that it shuts off your fetches...
Might Mindlock orb have a place in the SB.. you know, to shut off stoneforge mystic, knight of the requilary, and ranger of eos? Downside is that it shuts off your fetches...
Side Note: I like it :D, for like EDH. but in type too its too risky. there isnt too much search, if it could stop cascade also in sum way, then i think it would def be a great way. but for now we just gotta work with what we have and what we have isnt a good stopper. Like Wall of Denile is a good example, an amazing choose to "stop" critter damage.
Quote from Two Headed Dragon: "You can put a few Sphinxes and Nighthawks in your sideboard and side them in, as they will probably side their removal out. This way you won't be stuck with sub optimal creatures in certain matchups, like Vamps and UWR."
I was thinking of this, my problem (like I mentioned before) is the convertable turtle. When it hits (if I cant counter it) what should I do? But with nighthalk in the picture, it would fix alot of problems.
What does everyone think of the bog for WWK as a 1/2 of sb for us vs boros/RDW and KnightoftheR in naya? Sometimes a knight goes unanswered and he gets pretty damn big. The ability to shut off naya charm and KotR for the price of a swamp is tempting. Might work well with treasure hunt as a free spell.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard T2: UW Delver Tempo UWB Solar Flare Legacy T1.5: UWB Stoneblade Modern: UBW Teachings EDH: UWB Sharuum, the Combomon
Pyromancer Ascension isn't a win-more card. Once active it creates card advantage and answers your opponent's card advantage (bloodbraid, ranger, broodmate). When you hit 7 mana, a copied Cruel will usually win you the game on the spot. This isn't the case with a single Cruel as your opponent can easily crawl back from with a good board position. The 5 life gain and losing a creature isn't difficult to overcome whereas 10 life gain and losing 2 creatures gives you enough breathing room until the next turn.
Let's put the Pyromancer Ascension question to rest. It's got no place in this deck. We run too many 3 of's and 2 of's to ever get the counters effectively. Not only that, are we really gonna want to copy Negate, Scatter, Dbl. Neg? Topped with 3 to 4 PW's and 2 to 6 dudes that's up to 19 spells that undesirable or can't be copied...
I'll admit, copying a Cruel would be quite fun but it is a 'win-more' card. Twincast would fit better
Ascension belongs in a deck built around it with 4 of's and enough instants and sorceries to make it effective.
Thus far, I've been very partial to the Capsule because (1) ability to activate at instant speed on your opponent's turn (2) don't have to reveal your draws. Granted, you can probably "cheat" hunt with Jace, but not the way UW can manipulate their draws.
Any thoughts?
edit: guess I should toss my list out there so you can tear it apart...
Let's put the Pyromancer Ascension question to rest. It's got no place in this deck. We run too many 3 of's and 2 of's to ever get the counters effectively. Not only that, are we really gonna want to copy Negate, Scatter, Dbl. Neg? Topped with 3 to 4 PW's and 2 to 6 dudes that's up to 19 spells that undesirable or can't be copied...
I'll admit, copying a Cruel would be quite fun but it is a 'win-more' card. Twincast would fit better
Ascension belongs in a deck built around it with 4 of's and enough instants and sorceries to make it effective.
Twincast? At least in your deck, which runs 2 of everything, ascension sounds bad. But when it comes to a control deck, playing all out, and not running courier's capsule, the ascension can be triggered in my deck by turn 3 between ponder and lightning bolt alone, nevermind the amount of control pouring out of my hand, what's one card, that costs 2? Should they not answer it, it copies for way more than twincast does. The last time a control deck ran 2-3 of everything in the main was back when control had no options, and people completely shunted the idea about Force of Will, there will always be the people who doubt the greatness of good cards, until they play them, or get terribly beat by them.
The player is what makes the deck good, to an extent; beyond your genius-like, literal, universe.
This is all I can think of doing in order to please. When testing against U/W/R I found ponder to be my key help in retrieving lands, and there was never, ever, a point in any game where I hated having more than one in my hand. I could play ponder for (U) and still have the extra mana open to do whatever I wanted on their turn. I figured if I needed a creature at some point to help me then I may as well just run the couple I'd have in my SB, sorry everyone, I'll try it again. All I did was say go usually and kill anything that hit the board, or countered it. I put the creatures in just for you guys, and changed the mana base to your liking. I hope you don't underestimate the power of ponder. It is by far greater than Courier's Capsule, ends up being 4 mana total to get to the 2 cards, should you regress and ponder the subject, you may gain an understanding as to what it's about. ***It's cheap*** "always low prices, always."
and barely any of the deck, aside for cruel ultimatum and terminate, require any black in any costs at all...so why run 4 swamp when all of your non-basics produce black?
I need blue more often then not. and have always had the 3 black for cruel ultimatum when it came up. 4 Scalding Tarn are what really allow me to gain access to Dragonskull Summit and Drowned Catacomb coming into play untapped. That was the hardest, get two basics, I didn't need swamps, and both of the m10 lands produce Black too. I always have more black than I need when I play with 4 swamps...Nevermind the 4 Crumbling Necropolis.
Please, feel free to convince me in playing calcite snapper.
I can only find room for one, I like 4 double negative MD, it's really the more reliable source of control that this deck even has. It can hit everything, except uncounterable spells.
You're all about controlling the game until 7th turn, when you drop your bomb and ruin it for your opponent.
What does everyone think of the bog for WWK as a 1/2 of sb for us vs boros/RDW and KnightoftheR in naya? Sometimes a knight goes unanswered and he gets pretty damn big. The ability to shut off naya charm and KotR for the price of a swamp is tempting. Might work well with treasure hunt as a free spell.
I think that Relic would be more useful. I believe that there are more issues with bog then Relic. Some examples include.
Relic can be played early and used without penalty. Multiples can be cycled for draw. Bog is a land so if you play and land draw some cards and want to play it then you have to wait till next turn.
Relic can be activated at instant speed in response to a trigger where as Bog has to be played during your main phase. This may not be a problem in most cases but it certainly is a down side.
Bog comes into played tapped. If you include this in your mana source slot then you have yet another comes into play tapped land. If you side board this in replacement of some of your spells then what are you going to replace. In any of your match ups most of your spells are better then Bog.
I think that Relic would be more useful. I believe that there are more issues with bog then Relic. Some examples include.
Relic can be played early and used without penalty. Multiples can be cycled for draw. Bog is a land so if you play and land draw some cards and want to play it then you have to wait till next turn.
Relic can be activated at instant speed in response to a trigger where as Bog has to be played during your main phase. This may not be a problem in most cases but it certainly is a down side.
Bog comes into played tapped. If you include this in your mana source slot then you have yet another comes into play tapped land. If you side board this in replacement of some of your spells then what are you going to replace. In any of your match ups most of your spells are better then Bog.
Relic? Sorry I'm half asleep at work; bare with me. Bogs can provide to be hugely useful for our struggle against vamps. Removing the yard after a small earthquake perma-removes bloodghast and nulls their grim discovery. That alone makes it more useful then any other spell we have mainboard. I speak from experience, being beat to death by flying haste bloodghast is horrid. Tbh, I'd just board out a swamp for it.
As for the draw downside, I always draw before playing a land. It's just the smarter play, just incase you have 5-6 lands and you draw a creeping tar pit. You'd def play that over, say, the island in your hand (so you can use it next turn vs planeswalkers or for damage).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard T2: UW Delver Tempo UWB Solar Flare Legacy T1.5: UWB Stoneblade Modern: UBW Teachings EDH: UWB Sharuum, the Combomon
With Jace 2.0 I usually prefer treasure hunt; most of the time I will use his -0 ability put down two lands etc then treasure hunt. I normally don't shoot for his -12 unless I have multiple counters in hand. So often I am resorting to using his -0 to get upto the advantage point I need blah blah. But my play style just suits it and works well for Treasure Hunt.
Side note: (Agreeing with Pass's comment)
I found that Jace 2.0/Sorin at 2 a piece is pretty solid and works well especially with all the life gaining from allies happening and whatnot. Hence why I also tossed in an extra Quake so I run three now.
With Jace 2.0 I usually prefer treasure hunt; most of the time I will use his -0 ability put down two lands etc then treasure hunt. I normally don't shoot for his -12 unless I have multiple counters in hand. So often I am resorting to using his -0 to get upto the advantage point I need blah blah. But my play style just suits it and works well for Treasure Hunt.
Side note: (Agreeing with Pass's comment)
I found that Jace 2.0/Sorin at 2 a piece is pretty solid and works well especially with all the life gaining from allies happening and whatnot. Hence why I also tossed in an extra Quake so I run three now.
Gotcha - given that logic, I'm definitely not going to use treasure hunt. Jace has massive value in being able to preemptively remove threats (yeah, don't draw that BBE) or at least confirm that it's a relatively useless addition land drop, etc. I really only find value in brainstorming when finding a card will save your skin or effectively win that turn (digging for earthquake, digging for that last land for cruel)...or that I'm in such dominant board state I don't care what the opposing player draws or has it their hand.
edit: read this as "when I brainstorm, which I use the least of the non-ultimate modes, I'm not going to use that open mana to draw lands"
Re: Quake/Snapper & Jace-Sorin.
Decent points, I'll give it a run. I'm skeptical of adding earthquake with the expected flood of UW control. I also really like the Snapper as a shrouded body to protect my Jace.
Gotcha - given that logic, I'm definitely not going to use treasure hunt. Jace has massive value in being able to preemptively remove threats (yeah, don't draw that BBE) or at least confirm that it's a relatively useless addition land drop, etc. I really only find value in brainstorming when finding a card will save your skin or effectively win that turn (digging for earthquake, digging for that last land for cruel)...or that I'm in such dominant board state I don't care what the opposing player draws or has it their hand.
Re: Quake/Snapper & Jace-Sorin.
Decent points, I'll give it a run. I'm skeptical of adding earthquake with the expected flood of UW control.
Same on Jace 2.0 I normally want to Fate Seals the top of their deck but around here everyone is running a ton of allies so it is forcing me to dig for removals more often then I would like. I often fate seal myself vs using it to help when I have counters in hand and need to start digging or have sphinx out but no fetch.
More often then not though threat minimization is what I use it for but oddly lately I have had to go digging a lot (not shuffling well or bad luck whatever)
A lot of the locals are running low cost allies so I have to spend my time digging for cards before they mill off my Sorin (answer to huge life gain) etc.
If I was playing in an actual tournament or something I agree Fate Sealing away threats is far to useful to ever pass up.
To many Allies around here and I am forced to rush myself and just let them get O-ring and just counter it outright as I dig for Sorin to stop more life gain etc. It's all my local crap so sorry for not clarifying "why"
Edit:
Snapper is amazing early defense for your Jace is you put him out and have Negate in hand but lack a Essence Scatter etc. (assuming they dont have a bunch of flyers) and helps him live longer. If you have had to burn other counters or save them for flying creatures.
Personally I run Courier's Capsule... To go along with Capsule, my draw power is Into the Roil(Kicked), and Jace Beleren. I know Beleren is a weird addition, but I have my reasons.
But anyways I like the Capsule, usually I can play it turn 2 and not have issues. If they drop something on Turn 2/3 that is a problem for me, I can bounce it with Into the Roil and/or just kill it. If I am worried about certains pells on those turns,then I just don't drop it then. But Capsule has been great for me!
If you want Treasure Hunt, then I would say this card is only great when you are running Jace 2.0 and/or Halamire Depths/Ponder. This way you can manipulate the top of your library to get a better value from Hunts.
I'm not a big fan of Divination thought. I run 4 Capsules, 4 Into the Roil, and 3 Jace Beleren, no Divination. I used to run 4 Capsules, 3 Into the Roil, and 3 Sphinx of Lost Truths, and that was a pretty good draw suite too. People on this forum hate Lost Truths, but I have actually play tested with it, and even taken my deck to FNM with it. And more often then not, if I didn't already have Cruel Mana set up and a Cruel into my hand, I drop Lost Truths(Unkicked) for 5, leave counter mana open, dump any excess lands and cards I didn't need or dump another Lost Truths, and then am ready to Cruel. Its worked out great for me, but not for others, so I don't know.
Its just a matter of what you play test and how you play the cards. Divination isn't bad, just gotta play it at the right times, generally maybe on turn 5 so you can leave counter mana open.
I disagree, sorin doesn't belong in the deck at all, after turn 2 the only time i want to be tapped out on my turn is when I'm casting a cruel. I run 2 soji as well. And -1 jace maybe because you aren't running treasure hunt. Jace and treasure hunt together are just as good as biscuits and gravy, fantastic. With all the draw jace loses a little, only cause you increase the chances of getting him. I know I am gonna get flamed for this one but comet storm is really good. I'd only ever run one though. I'd also put that one more earthquake in the sideboard and bring it in if need be.
the lost sphinx isn't very good.. he doesn't net you any CA unless you kick him (id rather be casting something much better, CU perhaps) or you count dumping dead cards, which is situational (maybe you don't have any dead cards).. hes really only useful to dig out some removal or a threat to play next turn, but id much rather use jace to do that, and put something else in the sphinxs spot
EDIT: sorin most certainly belongs in this deck, as a one or two of, i prefer 2.. if you drop sorin turn 6 drop em to 10 then cast cruel next turn, they're sitting at 5 life, and they almost def. have dropped the remainder of their hand. how doesn't that belong?
Why would they need to list all the things you can't do...?
The ruling says "212.9g If noncombat damage would be dealt to a player by a source controlled by an opponent, that opponent may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker the first player controls instead. This is a redirection effect (see rule 419.6c) and is subject to the normal rules for ordering replacement effects (see rule 419.9). The opponent chooses whether to redirect the damage as the redirection effect is applied."
It says that an opponent can redirect damage. It doesn't say that you can redirect your own damage. The comprehensive rules don't need to list every possible thing you can't do. It only states what you can do...
Ruling source: http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Planeswalker
Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi."
Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
With Jace down on the board, you could always cycle it down in the late game. It really isn't that bad since it takes out 3 cards from your library and it is like a colorless capsule most of the time. It also allows you the option to shuffle your library other than Fetchlands after you brainstormed with jace.
The Lost Truth is great late game. I understand that it can always be another Cruel Ultimatum but turn 5 Sphinx helps a lot. It filters your draws and can be taken back with Ultimatum on turn 7 if it dies, if it doesnt it serves as a good blocker.
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Swamp
4 Island
3 Mountain
(34 Spells)
2 Armillary Sphere
2 Sign in Blood
2 Divination
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Terminate
2 Earthquake
2 Essence Scatter
2 Negate
1 Into the Roil
1 Mind Control
3 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Jace, the mind sculptor
1 Sorin Markov
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Sphinx of Lost Truth
4 Vampire Nighthawks
4 Flashfreeze
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
2 Swerve
2 Pithing Needle
Thus far, I've been very partial to the Capsule because (1) ability to activate at instant speed on your opponent's turn (2) don't have to reveal your draws. Granted, you can probably "cheat" hunt with Jace, but not the way UW can manipulate their draws.
Any thoughts?
edit: guess I should toss my list out there so you can tear it apart...
1 Sorin Markov
3 Cruel Ultimatum
2 Into the Roil
2 Double Negative
2 Negate
2 Essence Scatter
4 Terminate
2 Earthquake
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Courier's capsule
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
4 Crumbling Necropolis
3 Dragonskull Summit
3 Drowned Catacomb
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
3 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
2 Smother
3 Pithing Needle
2 Negate
3 Flashfreeze
Trade/Sell me your Demonic Attorney!
Why not use Mind Spring? Definitely a must in mid/end game.
Yeah, I might drop 1 capsule and throw in a mind spring....might as well test it.
I don't know - I've never had that much trouble with the deck. You can't count on countering or removing eldrazi monument as a way to beat the deck - it's pretty simple sweep out the elves and little creatures and it's not bad.
At first glance, I'd definitely not run 4 scatter / 4 negate - I think I only run 6 counters main and that's been plenty against non-control matchups. Move into the roil main, without question. even if all you do is bounce a turn 2 archdruid, you're really slowing that deck down big time.
If you're really worried, Chain Reaction is solid out of the board.
In all honesty you just need to kill off the creatures and you're gravy. Biggest concern is Elvish Archdruid and things get easier from there.
Trade/Sell me your Demonic Attorney!
Anyway, this is what I'm currently running and I must say I like it *a lot*
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
2 Calcite Snapper
2 Into the Roil
3 Courier's Capsule
3 Divination
2 Double Negative
2 Cancel
2 Essence Scatter
2 Negate
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Terminate
2 Earthquake
3 Cruel Ultimatum
Land: 26
4 Crubling Nacropolis
4 Drowned Catacombs
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Scalding Tarns
4 Dragonskull Summit
3 Island
4 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Flashfreeze
3 Malikar Bloodwitch
1 Mind Shatter
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Duress
2 Swerve
A few things to note:
I think 4 creatures is a great number to run. I would like to test a playset of Snapper's, but I honestly don't think it's necessary. And cutting 2 spells would hinder the deck, imo.
Courier's Capsule and Divination, while not great, perform well. I tested Treasure Hunt, but this card is meant to be used with Halimar Depths/Jace2.0. I cast Treasure Hunt well over 40 times, rarely did I get 2 cards from it. I will test -1 Capsule for 1 Mind Spring, but haven't had a chance yet.
The counter magic isn't the best, and this (I feel) is where the deck lacks. Playing against aggro with 2 Negates in my hand is terrible, and vice versa. This is why I've added 2 Cancel's over Flashfreeze. So far, this has been an amazing switch. So what, you don't get to counter their turn 2 spell...that's what you have Terminate and Bolt for. I've tested Spell Contortion, but Cancel is truly better. I'm testing Traumatic Visions at the moment, but haven't had a chance to use it yet. Mana fixing or hard counter sounds pretty darn good, though.
The burn is very standard for this build, so no need to talk about it. Cruel is set to 3 because I believe 4 is too many. Drawing one opening hand isn't fun...
Sorin is the man!! He's the turning point in 85% of my games. Casting him with a Cruel in hand has always been GG.
I think there is no right or wrong sideboard - it's meant to be geared for your meta.
I will post my results from FNM.
Cheers!
2x Sphinx of Jwar
1x Sphinx of Lost Truth
Instants: 15
3x Double Neg
4x Lighting Bolt
4x Terminate
3x Negate
3x Essence Scatter
Sorcery: 8
3x Cruel Ultimatum
2x Earthquake
2x Treasure Hunt
1x Mind Spring
4x Couriers Capsule
Planeswalkers: 2
1x Sorin Markov
1x Chandra Nalaar
Mana: 26
4x Crumbling Necropolis
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Island
4x Swamp
2x Mountain
3x Drowned Catacomb
3x Dragonskull Summit
1x Creeping Tar Pits
1x Lavaclaw Reachers
2x Malakir Bloodwitch
2x Pithing Needle
2x Swerve
1x Negate
1x Haunting Echocs
1x Mindshatter
3x Flashfreeze
3x Duress
Here is my Grix control.
Id like to mention the one of the R/B man lands and U/B man lands is great! Iv never had a bad top deck with them, when I see them in the point of the game i have my opponent critter-less. On the other hand I have been having some trouble with the convertible turtle. because I never have the counter in hand. So what a control player todo?
T2: Friends with Benefits.
EXT: ______
EDH: ______
Side Note: I like it :D, for like EDH. but in type too its too risky. there isnt too much search, if it could stop cascade also in sum way, then i think it would def be a great way. but for now we just gotta work with what we have and what we have isnt a good stopper. Like Wall of Denile is a good example, an amazing choose to "stop" critter damage.
Quote from Two Headed Dragon: "You can put a few Sphinxes and Nighthawks in your sideboard and side them in, as they will probably side their removal out. This way you won't be stuck with sub optimal creatures in certain matchups, like Vamps and UWR."
I was thinking of this, my problem (like I mentioned before) is the convertable turtle. When it hits (if I cant counter it) what should I do? But with nighthalk in the picture, it would fix alot of problems.
T2: Friends with Benefits.
EXT: ______
EDH: ______
UW Delver Tempo
UWB Solar Flare
Legacy T1.5:
UWB Stoneblade
Modern:
UBW Teachings
EDH:
UWB Sharuum, the Combomon
Let's put the Pyromancer Ascension question to rest. It's got no place in this deck. We run too many 3 of's and 2 of's to ever get the counters effectively. Not only that, are we really gonna want to copy Negate, Scatter, Dbl. Neg? Topped with 3 to 4 PW's and 2 to 6 dudes that's up to 19 spells that undesirable or can't be copied...
I'll admit, copying a Cruel would be quite fun but it is a 'win-more' card. Twincast would fit better
Ascension belongs in a deck built around it with 4 of's and enough instants and sorceries to make it effective.
-1 jace + 1 sorin
-1 calicite snapper +1 earthquake
Twincast? At least in your deck, which runs 2 of everything, ascension sounds bad. But when it comes to a control deck, playing all out, and not running courier's capsule, the ascension can be triggered in my deck by turn 3 between ponder and lightning bolt alone, nevermind the amount of control pouring out of my hand, what's one card, that costs 2? Should they not answer it, it copies for way more than twincast does. The last time a control deck ran 2-3 of everything in the main was back when control had no options, and people completely shunted the idea about Force of Will, there will always be the people who doubt the greatness of good cards, until they play them, or get terribly beat by them.
The player is what makes the deck good, to an extent; beyond your genius-like, literal, universe.
[Creatures][2]
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
[Other][32]
2 Negate
1 Essence Scatter
4 Ponder
3 Treasure Hunt
4 Double Negative
3 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Earthquake
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Into the Roil
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
4 Island
3 Mountain
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Crumbling Necropolis
4 Duress
4 Flashfreeze
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thought Hemorrhage
3 Deathmark
This is all I can think of doing in order to please. When testing against U/W/R I found ponder to be my key help in retrieving lands, and there was never, ever, a point in any game where I hated having more than one in my hand. I could play ponder for (U) and still have the extra mana open to do whatever I wanted on their turn. I figured if I needed a creature at some point to help me then I may as well just run the couple I'd have in my SB, sorry everyone, I'll try it again. All I did was say go usually and kill anything that hit the board, or countered it. I put the creatures in just for you guys, and changed the mana base to your liking. I hope you don't underestimate the power of ponder. It is by far greater than Courier's Capsule, ends up being 4 mana total to get to the 2 cards, should you regress and ponder the subject, you may gain an understanding as to what it's about. ***It's cheap*** "always low prices, always."
and barely any of the deck, aside for cruel ultimatum and terminate, require any black in any costs at all...so why run 4 swamp when all of your non-basics produce black?
I need blue more often then not. and have always had the 3 black for cruel ultimatum when it came up. 4 Scalding Tarn are what really allow me to gain access to Dragonskull Summit and Drowned Catacomb coming into play untapped. That was the hardest, get two basics, I didn't need swamps, and both of the m10 lands produce Black too. I always have more black than I need when I play with 4 swamps...Nevermind the 4 Crumbling Necropolis.
Please, feel free to convince me in playing calcite snapper.
I can only find room for one, I like 4 double negative MD, it's really the more reliable source of control that this deck even has. It can hit everything, except uncounterable spells.
You're all about controlling the game until 7th turn, when you drop your bomb and ruin it for your opponent.
MTG Complete Index: Magiccards.info.html
Solitaire & Build: Deckstats.net
I think that Relic would be more useful. I believe that there are more issues with bog then Relic. Some examples include.
Relic can be played early and used without penalty. Multiples can be cycled for draw. Bog is a land so if you play and land draw some cards and want to play it then you have to wait till next turn.
Relic can be activated at instant speed in response to a trigger where as Bog has to be played during your main phase. This may not be a problem in most cases but it certainly is a down side.
Bog comes into played tapped. If you include this in your mana source slot then you have yet another comes into play tapped land. If you side board this in replacement of some of your spells then what are you going to replace. In any of your match ups most of your spells are better then Bog.
Relic? Sorry I'm half asleep at work; bare with me. Bogs can provide to be hugely useful for our struggle against vamps. Removing the yard after a small earthquake perma-removes bloodghast and nulls their grim discovery. That alone makes it more useful then any other spell we have mainboard. I speak from experience, being beat to death by flying haste bloodghast is horrid. Tbh, I'd just board out a swamp for it.
As for the draw downside, I always draw before playing a land. It's just the smarter play, just incase you have 5-6 lands and you draw a creeping tar pit. You'd def play that over, say, the island in your hand (so you can use it next turn vs planeswalkers or for damage).
UW Delver Tempo
UWB Solar Flare
Legacy T1.5:
UWB Stoneblade
Modern:
UBW Teachings
EDH:
UWB Sharuum, the Combomon
With Jace 2.0 I usually prefer treasure hunt; most of the time I will use his -0 ability put down two lands etc then treasure hunt. I normally don't shoot for his -12 unless I have multiple counters in hand. So often I am resorting to using his -0 to get upto the advantage point I need blah blah. But my play style just suits it and works well for Treasure Hunt.
Side note: (Agreeing with Pass's comment)
I found that Jace 2.0/Sorin at 2 a piece is pretty solid and works well especially with all the life gaining from allies happening and whatnot. Hence why I also tossed in an extra Quake so I run three now.
:symb::symr::symg:
Jund
White Wienies
Gotcha - given that logic, I'm definitely not going to use treasure hunt. Jace has massive value in being able to preemptively remove threats (yeah, don't draw that BBE) or at least confirm that it's a relatively useless addition land drop, etc. I really only find value in brainstorming when finding a card will save your skin or effectively win that turn (digging for earthquake, digging for that last land for cruel)...or that I'm in such dominant board state I don't care what the opposing player draws or has it their hand.
edit: read this as "when I brainstorm, which I use the least of the non-ultimate modes, I'm not going to use that open mana to draw lands"
Re: Quake/Snapper & Jace-Sorin.
Decent points, I'll give it a run. I'm skeptical of adding earthquake with the expected flood of UW control. I also really like the Snapper as a shrouded body to protect my Jace.
Trade/Sell me your Demonic Attorney!
Same on Jace 2.0 I normally want to Fate Seals the top of their deck but around here everyone is running a ton of allies so it is forcing me to dig for removals more often then I would like. I often fate seal myself vs using it to help when I have counters in hand and need to start digging or have sphinx out but no fetch.
More often then not though threat minimization is what I use it for but oddly lately I have had to go digging a lot (not shuffling well or bad luck whatever)
A lot of the locals are running low cost allies so I have to spend my time digging for cards before they mill off my Sorin (answer to huge life gain) etc.
If I was playing in an actual tournament or something I agree Fate Sealing away threats is far to useful to ever pass up.
To many Allies around here and I am forced to rush myself and just let them get O-ring and just counter it outright as I dig for Sorin to stop more life gain etc. It's all my local crap so sorry for not clarifying "why"
Edit:
Snapper is amazing early defense for your Jace is you put him out and have Negate in hand but lack a Essence Scatter etc. (assuming they dont have a bunch of flyers) and helps him live longer. If you have had to burn other counters or save them for flying creatures.
:symb::symr::symg:
Jund
White Wienies
Personally I run Courier's Capsule... To go along with Capsule, my draw power is Into the Roil(Kicked), and Jace Beleren. I know Beleren is a weird addition, but I have my reasons.
But anyways I like the Capsule, usually I can play it turn 2 and not have issues. If they drop something on Turn 2/3 that is a problem for me, I can bounce it with Into the Roil and/or just kill it. If I am worried about certains pells on those turns,then I just don't drop it then. But Capsule has been great for me!
If you want Treasure Hunt, then I would say this card is only great when you are running Jace 2.0 and/or Halamire Depths/Ponder. This way you can manipulate the top of your library to get a better value from Hunts.
I'm not a big fan of Divination thought. I run 4 Capsules, 4 Into the Roil, and 3 Jace Beleren, no Divination. I used to run 4 Capsules, 3 Into the Roil, and 3 Sphinx of Lost Truths, and that was a pretty good draw suite too. People on this forum hate Lost Truths, but I have actually play tested with it, and even taken my deck to FNM with it. And more often then not, if I didn't already have Cruel Mana set up and a Cruel into my hand, I drop Lost Truths(Unkicked) for 5, leave counter mana open, dump any excess lands and cards I didn't need or dump another Lost Truths, and then am ready to Cruel. Its worked out great for me, but not for others, so I don't know.
Its just a matter of what you play test and how you play the cards. Divination isn't bad, just gotta play it at the right times, generally maybe on turn 5 so you can leave counter mana open.
I disagree, sorin doesn't belong in the deck at all, after turn 2 the only time i want to be tapped out on my turn is when I'm casting a cruel. I run 2 soji as well. And -1 jace maybe because you aren't running treasure hunt. Jace and treasure hunt together are just as good as biscuits and gravy, fantastic. With all the draw jace loses a little, only cause you increase the chances of getting him. I know I am gonna get flamed for this one but comet storm is really good. I'd only ever run one though. I'd also put that one more earthquake in the sideboard and bring it in if need be.
EDIT: sorin most certainly belongs in this deck, as a one or two of, i prefer 2.. if you drop sorin turn 6 drop em to 10 then cast cruel next turn, they're sitting at 5 life, and they almost def. have dropped the remainder of their hand. how doesn't that belong?
4-0-0