Oh, I definitely plan on trying out a few. I just hadn't seen the consistency of it showing up in decklists yet and figured, based on the results it has seen so far (based on other people playing it) that it would almost become part of the decks core.
It just doesn't seem to be one of those "preference" choices like Snapper, THunt, Capsule etc..
Has anyone played with EQ and NOT been happy with the results? I guess I'd also like to hear from people that tested it and DIDN'T like it. Just curious what reasons people found that it didn't work. The more I hear about EQ, it just sounds to be a house in this deck.
Dude, of course it'll be a house in this deck. And as for the consistency you talk about, it's in the decklist on the first page... and pretty much every other one I've seen in this thread. I think it's generally understood that it's a core component of the deck.
So I'm not sure why this is being brought up, unless you have a suggestion for a replacement (but it sounds like you love it).
Dude, of course it'll be a house in this deck. And as for the consistency you talk about, it's in the decklist on the first page... and pretty much every other one I've seen in this thread. I think it's generally understood that it's a core component of the deck.
So I'm not sure why this is being brought up, unless you have a suggestion for a replacement (but it sounds like you love it).
Moo-moo... My bad.
Apparently I'm just a little slow this morning. It just seemed like more decklists were starting to be submitted without EQ, but after going back over the last 10 pages, I must've just overlooked it completely in the lists.
And no, no replacements. Not even Comet Storm, as one deck listed...
Is EQ an auto-include at this point? Seems like everyone that's played with it has never reported it being a card they didn't want to see. The only time it's a bad card is if your are under 3-4 life, and with Cruel and Sorin (if you run him) you should not ever have EQ be completely dead unless you're already losing. I've not played with it, but it just seems that most of the scenarios that I can think of, EQ would be a good peel.
Seems like 2 MD +1 SB would be optimal. You want multiples against Jund, WW, opposing snappers, RDW... It just seems to be tits every time you draw it.
Not to mention it's an extra win-con itself.
Problem with EQ is that it can't hit fliers. I do 2 MD and then in SB I put a Chain Reaction. CR has been pretty good for me against weenies. The downside of CR is that it's not a finisher and doesn't hit planeswalkers.
This is very much a meta choice. If I was building for a big event, I would probably run this counter pacakge, but I know at my FNM, vamps is very popular so 3 Scatters is better than 3 flash freeze main.
Lost to a black/red vamp and junk, beat U/W control and mono-B Vamps.
I probably should have preformed better, but I was really unprepared for the night. I came in thinking was gonna play vamps and didnt have a grixis sideboard built. After throwning one together, I never used it much. I won the first game of both matches I lost, then their sideboards helped them beat me in the match (well, in the junk matchup, him living the dream with a turn 3 4 and 5 baneslayer didn't hurt either).
I liked Snapper, he got there an awful lot, more than expected. Nothing like having a 4/1 shroud creature pounding face while your opponent's board is clear.
The decklist isn't far off of the one that gets tossed around, except for the traumatic visions, which i really liked throughout the night. I used it every way I want to at different points (psuedo 5th fetch which can get a swamp and shuffle for jace or a late game hard counter). However, I don't know that I liked it enough that I wouldn't just prefer a 26th land.
ok, after playing the deck with my friends before the FNM last night, we decided that the bit blasts had to be cut :/
After taking all considerations to hand, we revamped the deck, to what we thought would fit the meta, and we came out with this as an end product.
It was a 5 round Swiss, format, and the deck went 4-1...losing to an esper discard control. It ran through jund, white weenie, and another grixis deck almost effortlessly after Side Boards came into the equation.
The main is pretty solid against a Creature deck...that doesn't fly, but anything of any real threat was countered in time by my 1 of 5 MD counters.
Time warp worked out alright. It came up at the moments I needed it, and often-times lead straight into a Cruel Ultimatum that people weren't expecting because it set me ahead the extra lands I needed. It's not too powerful, but it comes through when it doesn't get countered. I'm not all for it, but it was reliable. Specially when Jace 2.0 was on my field :)...on top of that, it's fun when you're at 6 and you drop a big EQ and direct your damage at jace
I think Ponder is a viable draw spell, and very versatile. Anything that leaves me with mana open for my responses, I'm fine with. I ended many of my games with the Manlands.
Again, 4-1. 2nd place out of 18-20, I didn't check specifics, but I think that's how many you need for 5 rounds of swiss...I'll check my DCI in tournies. :/
Naya isn't too much of a worry, specially with 4 Deathmark, 3 Flashfreeze, and the MD creature hate.
Tectonic Edge is usually only run in major creature decks, or along with ajani vengeant, which to me, isn't too much of a threat with the control in this deck :/ I don't consider vampires a threat with this deck either...for obvious reasons :/ I stay away from cards like flashfreeze and Deathmark in MD because there will always be a game where they're just utterly useless...if anything I'd be more tempted to play deathmark :/ otherwise I'll stick with the insurance that gives me assurance
The counter package is always in a state of flux and is the part of the deck that is the most susceptible to metagame changes, since they counters are all so narrow. For example, I have been running all 4 Flashfreezes in the sideboard recently, but after the success of Naya at the PT (in addition to all the Jund decks always around), I may put 2 back in the main. Also, with people moving away from Soji (PChapin's UW control runs 0) and mroe towards man-lands, I think Essence Scatter is no longer maindeck worthy. Here's the counterspells suite I would run right now:
3 Double Negative
2 Flashfreeze
2 Negate
Another issue - In order to deal with Tectonic Edge, and to deal with the control mirrors that will have 30+ mana sources (counting Everflowing Chalice), I think the deck needs 27 land. With that in mind, I think I would advocate a list similar to my last one (2-3 pages back) except with the counter suite posted above, and
-1 Calcite Snapper, -1 Soji
+1 Lavaclaw Reaches, +1 Mind Spring
this is what i ran last night and went 4-1-1
little detail on my results
Round 1 mono R gobs 2-1
before the game even starts i know the kid probably isnt playing a very competitive deck based on past decks ive seen him play
Game 1 i keep a hand with little removal based on the information above and felt greedy with my hand full of lands +treasure hunt /cruel.
I get punished as i should have he nails me with 3 gob guides by turn 2 and i cant dig for a answer
game 2 he starts off the same way but this time i have the bolt / smother in hand to slow him down and stall to turn 7 and i just back to back cruel him for the win
game 3 he starts off with gob guide again! and turn 2 bushwhacker followed by a turn 3 bushwacker getting in for some serious damage i drop a turn 3 earthquake to wipe the board. he throws burn at me left and right and i barely squeeze by at 1 health on turn 7 to land the cruel and take control of the game...i play jace2.0 and just fateseal his threats even though im holding tons of answer just to get his ultimate off for the first time in a tourny lol and i win
i took a beating from beeing to greedy with my opening hand game 1 and i learned a bit from it
Match 2 RDW 2-0
not going to go much into detail with this i saw tons of flashfreeze / removal and win with back to back cruels both games and was a 1 sided game the entire time
Match 3 5 color control 2-1
game 1i win the die roll and play a very slow game and i notice hes stuck on 4 lands and cant do anything "savage lands, savage lands, lavaclaw reaches , mountain" so im thinkin hes got double green in his hand or a handfull of broodmates and he still sees no land i win the game with jar jar sphinx and see him play nothing
game 2 i board in all the jund hate and it turns out....hes not jund hes actually playing a deck with 0 creatures and so my hand with terminates, smothers, and flashfreeze isnt as good as i anticipated...he turn 4 thought hemo's my cruel and turn 6 he drops a obelisk of alara and slowly wins the game with some burn and the obelisk
game 3 i board out my jund hate and removal and load up on negate haunting echoes and bloodwitches ...had no reason not too
he turn 4 thought hemos my cruel again and i couldnt see double blue for my double negative so i loose my cruels. but somehow i draw into some land i need and the sphinx to win the game
Round 4 Vampires 2-0
i was dreading this match all night considering its probably our hardest MU for grixis
game 1 he kept a slower hand and by the time he can start dropping threats i have answers untill gravy street turn 7 and make quick work of him
game 2 happens the same way i get beat with a nocturnis for a bit but jace 2.0 kept him off the board long enough to win the game again
after the game ended i realized he diddnt drop a single bloodghast so i asked him if he ran them and apparently he just had bad luck seeing them against me ....guess that makes a huge part of it
round 5 i draw into top 8
Top 8 round 1 Artifact aggro 1-2
game 1 mull to 6 with a hand full of bolts and flashfreeze...i soon find out flashfreeze is worthless in this game and he has the Ethersworn Shieldmage for every bolt i have ..i stall out on 4 lands and loose to a master of etherium
game 2 i mull to 5 but the hand consists of 3 land a terminate and a bloodwitch somehow i get the land to play both bloodwitches and get in for mad beats
game 3 i mull to 5 again and he drops a turn 2 sculler to take out my only out and i get slowrolled by a bunch of the pro red outlander
was pretty dissapointing to have a good run and loose to the fact i had to mull every game.."not to metnion it was the only match i had to mull all night"
overall im pleased with the way the deck performed i am gonna switch up my board a bit for my meta and am possibly considering replacing my 1 of sphinx of lost truths for a sorin
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Standard
:symr::symw::symu: r/w/u control
:symr::symb::symg: jund
zZzZzZzzz...-_-
your meta sounds like a breeze.
and that artifact aggro was the esper discard control I lost against because of multiple esper charms, but he didn't have as many creatures as you display in your explanation...it's the version to take grixis I think. With 4 Scullers, 4 duress, and 4 Esper Charms, it can get tedious at times. But that's where the deathmark and terminate come in handy; I think that if you had smother in your list that you shouldn't have lost. They have pretty small creatures and normally terminate alone can handle it. Not to mention your 4 jace 2.0. you really lost?
And you seriously need better draw than just 4 treasure hunt.
plz edit your post to limited words, we all know how the match-up against vamps goes, and we don't need a turn-by-turn outtake of the whole tourny...just a general idea :/
I say it in the kindest, most gentle way I can.
zZzZzZzzz...-_-
your meta sounds like a breeze.
and that artifact aggro was the esper discard control I lost against because of multiple esper charms, but he didn't have as many creatures as you display in your explanation...it's the version to take grixis I think. With 4 Scullers, 4 duress, and 4 Esper Charms, it can get tedious at times. But that's where the deathmark and terminate come in handy; I think that if you had smother in your list that you shouldn't have lost. They have pretty small creatures and normally terminate alone can handle it. Not to mention your 4 jace 2.0. you really lost?
And you seriously need better draw than just 4 treasure hunt.
plz edit your post to limited words, we all know how the match-up against vamps goes, and we don't need a turn-by-turn outtake of the whole tourny.
actually my meta if full of vamps / jund...we had a weird turn out last night which is where those weird decks came from
as far as editing my post....no ty too lazy
thx
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:symr::symw::symu: r/w/u control
:symr::symb::symg: jund
Sideboard and land base are still the same in my other post. I found that I don't see enough counters and it can potentially cost me the game. Jund is nonexistent in my meta, but there is at least one fellow running Naya Lightsabre, so Double Negative is back in. I don't like seeing BBE hit the field, if it can be helped. I may SB 1 Double Negative and put in 1 Into the Roil, or perhaps drop Mind Spring/1 Treasure Hunt, and add a second, but we'll see how this works, first. I definitely see the value of Into the Roil but it's difficult to decide on how to fit it in
plz edit your post to limited words, we all know how the match-up against vamps goes, and we don't need a turn-by-turn outtake of the whole tourny...just a general idea :/
I say it in the kindest, most gentle way I can.
Actually, when someone takes the time to post a play-by-play of their results, it is actually quite helpful and insightful. It helps quite a bit more than someone just posting a record.
has anyone tested chain reaction(i think thats its name)
I put 1 Chain Reaction in my SB last night and was glad to see it. There was once when I had to wait an extra turn to use it to make sure he would play another creature to get the damage up high enough to wipe the board, but it always did its job.
It's definitely not a MB card. Not being able to finish or hit planeswalkers hurts too much. In the SB, it's a great complement to Earthquake.
E: It's also another way of getting rid of Great Sable Stag if there are 2 other creatures out.
I like play by plays because someone can be running a random card that we haven't thought about and it helps me think about another angle of defense or offense.
i have a few questions/comments about the last 4 or so pages
1st why don't we run ponder? i myself don't either so i have no opinion but i had considered it because what else do we really do turn one?
2nd are people seriously running traumatic visions? perhaps theres something im missing but i don't see the use? please elaborate if you will
3rd sphinx of the lost truths isn't good, in any control, or any other deck really there are infinite ways to spend 7 mana that will net you better results. CU is the perfect example, hell id rather drop Thraximundar, or soulquake so next turn you can CU the baneslayer they re-play
4th mysteries of the deep is pretty bad.. thers only 2 draw spells left worth playing, divination and treasure hunt. i prefer divination because it has 0 chance of cycling for 2 mana.. which regardless of how balls deep the pros are in that card, isn't worth it without running halimar depths and jaces, and depths isn't worth making all of the blue sources come into play tapped, there would only be a few left depending on how many drowned catacombs are left in your deck from tar pits.(this opinion is stated in context with THIS deck, RWU control puts TH to better use IMO)
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4-0-0
and swept 3 games straight ftw...im glad I didn't pay for the box I got thought...2 fetches, iona, doj, and WOOOOOOOOO a foil lightcaster..
has anyone tested chain reaction(i think thats its name)
the red wrath?
And now I see why vampires are such a problem...vamps swept me like it was their job..
i run 2 chain reactions in my SB.. allys are going to be very good, eldrazi green is growing and they both take it on the chin to this card. eldrazi gobs, with assault and the new quest might be pretty decent too.
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4-0-0
i have a few questions/comments about the last 4 or so pages
1st why don't we run ponder? i myself don't either so i have no opinion but i had considered it because what else do we really do turn one?
2nd are people seriously running traumatic visions? perhaps theres something im missing but i don't see the use? please elaborate if you will
3rd sphinx of the lost truths isn't good, in any control, or any other deck really there are infinite ways to spend 7 mana that will net you better results. CU is the perfect example, hell id rather drop Thraximundar, or soulquake so next turn you can CU the baneslayer they re-play
4th mysteries of the deep is pretty bad.. thers only 2 draw spells left worth playing, divination and treasure hunt. i prefer divination because it has 0 chance of cycling for 2 mana.. which regardless of how balls deep the pros are in that card, isn't worth it without running halimar depths and jaces, and depths isn't worth making all of the blue sources come into play tapped, there would only be a few left depending on how many drowned catacombs are left in your deck from tar pits.(this opinion is stated in context with THIS deck, RWU control puts TH to better use IMO)
Ponder isn't really card advantage. I suppose it's better than a 'cycled' Treasure Hunt, but how often do we drop a U untapped first turn? I also disagree that TH is better in RWU, we can use the extra mana better and we need to drop a land every turn, RWU can cast every spell in the deck with 5 lands on the board (X spells not included, they use Chalice anyhow). There's better spells to play than Ponder in this deck.
Traumatic Visions is a pet card of sorts. Players that run it land cycle it early or use it for a late game counter. Which is why they only run one or two. I personally see no use.
1st why don't we run ponder? i myself don't either so i have no opinion but i had considered it because what else do we really do turn one?
Play tapped lands?
2nd are people seriously running traumatic visions? perhaps theres something im missing but i don't see the use? please elaborate if you will
Mana fixing cycler early, hard counter later?
4th mysteries of the deep is pretty bad.. thers only 2 draw spells left worth playing, divination and treasure hunt. i prefer divination because it has 0 chance of cycling for 2 mana.. which regardless of how balls deep the pros are in that card, isn't worth it without running halimar depths and jaces, and depths isn't worth making all of the blue sources come into play tapped, there would only be a few left depending on how many drowned catacombs are left in your deck from tar pits.(this opinion is stated in context with THIS deck, RWU control puts TH to better use IMO)
I played a game where a turn 3 Treasure Hunt drew me 6 lands and completely turned the game around. I kept with 2 lands a treasure hunt and 4 other spells, hoping to draw into more but hadn't by turn 3. TH drew me 7 cards and ended up being a game changing play. For 2 mana, that's pretty good.
I played FMN at my local store and did ok. I went 5-1, and i droped. Had to do some other stuff
I'll give a brief run of the night.
1 round vs Mono Red (2-0)
As you see i didnt write RDW because this guy was a noob. He was playing Shivan Dragon and some other big creatures that costed a lot. So this, was easy. Not too much to detail here.
1-0
2 Round vs Vamps (2-1)
I played a friend of mine that i cosidered a good player, but fairly new to magic. First game i got Mind Sluged but i recouped very well since he got stucked on four lands for 3 turns. For second game, i took 6 cards out, and put 3 Wrench Banquet 1 Negate 1 Essence Scatter 1 Swerve. These changes made the deck better geared towards this match-up, and these were the changes i made everytime i played agaist Vamps.
Second game i got mind Sludged twice! I almost recover but wasnt enough. Third game, i had all the defense i needed on hand, so i was good from the start. One card that i was really impressed of was Wrench Banquet. It really shinned.
2-0
3 Round vs Vamps (0-2)
This guy was playing a different kind of Vamp list. I saw bunch of Boolghasts, Nocturnos, He also had the new 6/6 trample/flyer demon from WW wich i had to kill with a Chandra. He wasnt runing mind Sludge and that made me side in the wrong cards, and that how i lost my second round, with negates and swerves in hand where i needed other stuff at that time.
4 round vs Vamps!!!! (2-0)
This time, i had to face a lot of Boodghast and Highborns. She is very dangerous and if yopu dont time well your earthquakes she can hurt you a lot more that you think. Then the bloodghast wioth Noctornus can finish you off quick. In this match i didnot play a single creature, and my planeswalkers killed him both games. (Sorin)
3-1
5 round vs Jund (2-1)
Finally, something different than Vamps
But i knew this match was going to be hard. Eventhough i was runing 4 spreding seas main(4 flashfreeze sideboard) my opponent is a top 5 player from GA state. He got a good amount of pro points and is still in his best shape.
First game he got up to four lands with no red mana. My spreading seas worked like a charm when he finally found one. By that time i was way ahead of the game, and evnthough he hit me with the best of Jund, i was ready for it. My Jar Jar finished him in no time.
Game two i got double duress, triple blightning. However i stayed in the game way longer that what he tought. This is when i realized that this deck doesnt give up. I can pull comeback out of nowwhere. But not this time
Game three he started with a solid hand. Duress, blightning(only one), BB elves, Thrinax, M of the Wild Hunt.I had answer for almost everything. However the only thing i didnt draw well in this game was...draw spells. So i kind of ran out of gas.Towards the end of the game he had 2 thrinaxs in play whiel i just played a Chandra Nalaar. I still had a bolt and a terminat on hand and a blue-black manland. Well, that and a top decked earthquake next turn put me back of the winning track. I killed him with Chandra and the blue-black manland.It was very close.
4-1
round 5 vs Valakut g/r (2-0)
This match-up is very easy since i had spreading seas main for those Valakut, or screw their green sources. Counter his ramp spells, hit him with Cruel U, and kill him with my planeswalker and Jar jar. Its like the dream match-up vs Grixis.
Second game gets even easier when i bring in my flashfreezes and my third negate.
5-1
I was sick of running Jund and decided to test this out for FNM. We had about 35 people but still only ran 4 rounds. If you can't tell from my build/sb, we are infested with Jund at our store. I was trying to beat Jund first and foremost, hence the Spreading Seas maxed out in the board and maindeck Flashfreezes. Ironically, I didn't end up playing against it all day. This is what I sleeved up:
Round 1 - Eldrazi Green
This was a good player with a good deck, so it was bittersweet to face him in the first round. I knew if I won this one it would really help my breakers (and I was right as he went on to go 3-1 for the night)
Game 1: I traded some removal for his guys then stabilized with a Jace to fateseal him, buy a turn with his crackback, then bounce and counter until I could cruel.
Game 2: I boarded in the Flashfreeze and Deathmark for Double Negatives and 2 Treasure Hunt. I traded removal for his dudes, most of which were huge because of double Oran-Rief. Luckily Smother, Terminate, and Deathmark don't really care and I was able to kill everything until Jace came online and made sure he didn't draw any more gas. A Sphinx and a Cruel finished things up.
(2-0 in games, 1-0 in matches)
Round 2 - Vampires (splashing red for Lightning Bolt and Blightning)
This was not a match-up I was looking forward to, but I saw a Blightning during shuffling which made my Flashfreezes active at least.
Game 1: I had a repeat of Game 1 from the first round. Traded some removal for his guys, and he was forced to trot out some gatekeepers with no targets to keep up any pressure at all. I landed a Jace, fixed for a cruel, and after his hand was cleared I dropped down a Sphinx for mop-up duty.
Game 2: I had to mull to 5, and after using removal on his turn 2 Hexmage and turn 3 Nighthawk, I was left with only Lightning Bolt to try and deal with his turn 4 Nocturnus. He proceeded to have a black card on top of his library for 5(!?) turns in a row. Jace what down to try and find an answer, which he did in the form of terminate. I thought I had stabilized at 5 life but got double bolted to end that idea.
Game 3: I drew the right kind of removal, negated a duress and a blightning (which I boarded in afraid of sludge), and finished the game by protecting Jace and swinging in with a pumped Lavaclaw Reaches 3 times with counter backup.
(4-1 in games, 2-0 in matches)
Round 3 - Bant
This is the guy who I had played the last 3 weeks with Jund, and he destroyed me with Spreading Seas more often than not.
Game 1: He ramped into a turn 2 Rhox War Monk, which ate a smother, followed by a Emeria Angel, which ate a Lightning Bolt. He then dropped turn 4 Baneslayer, which got Terminated. I hit a Treasure Hunt for 5 which set me up with control for the rest of the game.
Game 2: More of the same (I feel like I'm always typing the same thing), except I have even more removal for him and Malakir Bloodwitch. It was the same process as game 1, but there was one turn where he played Baneslayer and double Scute Mob (with more than 5 lands out). I nuked both Scute Mobs, then untapped and dropped Sphinx and Deathmarked his Baneslayer. That about sums it up. I felt like my post-board game against green decks were almost perfect; I was planning on this stuff for Jund but I'll take what I get.
(6-1 in games, 3-0 in matches)
Round 4 - Eldrazi Green (again)
Game 1: I mull to 5, resolve double Cruel Ultimatum... and still lose. He comes out way to fast and I have no removal. Jace is a minor roadblock as he curves out from Llanowar to Archdruid to Eldrazi, dropping more elves each time and finishing with a Master of the Wild Hunt.
Game 2: He gets me down to 3 with his early rush, but I stabilize with a Cruel and Jace. I Earthquake to kill his dudes post-Cruel, then finish off his Nissa with a Sphinx, who kills him shortly after
Game 3: Another mull to 5, but I have some removal and I am able to slow him down enough to set up a turn where I Earthquake for 4 killing Garruk and 4 Elves. Jace fateseals the rest of the game while I beat in with Creeping Tar Pit and Bolt him for the win.
(8-2 in games, 4-0 in matches)
I got 8 or so WWK packs for first, from which I pulled a Jace (2nd week in a row from prize packs!) and got a promo Path and well. Was a good night all things considered.
Notes and Questions: I was sketchy on the Traumatic Visions, but they were amazing all night, most often than not I was wishing my Treasure Hunts were more copies of Visions. I still wouldn't go more than 2, but the Hunts were sub-par almost all night. Can the manabase handle Halimar Depths as a 2-of to improve the Hunts? Now that I have a 4th Jace, should I be rocking all 4 of them? I thought 3 was the perfect number, but he's so freaking powerful. What can I cut to make room for some Calcite Snappers?, I'm not really happy cutting anything, but I'd like to give them a shot. And finally, should I be using Swerve instead of Spreading Seas for the Jund matchup? The Seas weren't really used this week, but I know how much they sucked for me to see when I was running Jund...
Sorry for the super-long post, but let me know what you guys think.
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Notes and Questions: Can the manabase handle Halimar Depths as a 2-of to improve the Hunts?
You've got 8 lands that CIPT no matter what and 6 that CIPT if you don't have the right basic land out. Do you really want to up that number? Also, I tested it out and I was never really thrilled with them.
What can I cut to make room for some Calcite Snappers?, I'm not really happy cutting anything, but I'd like to give them a shot.
If it were me, I'd cut the Smother for room for the Snappers. Mainly because you're need for removal will drop with them out. Run no more than three though because having a bunch in hand is never a real welcome sight.
And finally, should I be using Swerve instead of Spreading Seas for the Jund matchup? The Seas weren't really used this week, but I know how much they sucked for me to see when I was running Jund...
I'd keep the Seas, I use them maindeck there that good in my meta. Swerve can be pretty nasty in the right situation, but pretty much you're only going to be Swerving hand disruption/counterspells. You've got so much SB goodness I wouldn't try fitting both...
So what do you guys think about the lousy showing that Grixis had at PT San Diego? It doesn't seem like it did very well. Is that because of Jund or what?
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Dude, of course it'll be a house in this deck. And as for the consistency you talk about, it's in the decklist on the first page... and pretty much every other one I've seen in this thread. I think it's generally understood that it's a core component of the deck.
So I'm not sure why this is being brought up, unless you have a suggestion for a replacement (but it sounds like you love it).
Moo-moo... My bad.
Apparently I'm just a little slow this morning. It just seemed like more decklists were starting to be submitted without EQ, but after going back over the last 10 pages, I must've just overlooked it completely in the lists.
And no, no replacements. Not even Comet Storm, as one deck listed...
Nothing to see here - Carry on.
Problem with EQ is that it can't hit fliers. I do 2 MD and then in SB I put a Chain Reaction. CR has been pretty good for me against weenies. The downside of CR is that it's not a finisher and doesn't hit planeswalkers.
So whats Earthquake?
U/W control is a good deck, but not only because of the wrath effects.
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This is very much a meta choice. If I was building for a big event, I would probably run this counter pacakge, but I know at my FNM, vamps is very popular so 3 Scatters is better than 3 flash freeze main.
I went 2-2 last night running this list:
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
3 Calcite Snapper
Counters
3 Negate
3 Essence Scatter
2 Double Negative
1 Traumatic Visions
Planswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Sorin Markov
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
3 Treasure Hunt
2 Earthquake
3 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Into the Roil
Land
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Dragonskull Summit
3 Crumbling necropolis
4 Island
4 Swamp
2 Mountain
Lost to a black/red vamp and junk, beat U/W control and mono-B Vamps.
I probably should have preformed better, but I was really unprepared for the night. I came in thinking was gonna play vamps and didnt have a grixis sideboard built. After throwning one together, I never used it much. I won the first game of both matches I lost, then their sideboards helped them beat me in the match (well, in the junk matchup, him living the dream with a turn 3 4 and 5 baneslayer didn't hurt either).
I liked Snapper, he got there an awful lot, more than expected. Nothing like having a 4/1 shroud creature pounding face while your opponent's board is clear.
The decklist isn't far off of the one that gets tossed around, except for the traumatic visions, which i really liked throughout the night. I used it every way I want to at different points (psuedo 5th fetch which can get a swamp and shuffle for jace or a late game hard counter). However, I don't know that I liked it enough that I wouldn't just prefer a 26th land.
After taking all considerations to hand, we revamped the deck, to what we thought would fit the meta, and we came out with this as an end product.
It was a 5 round Swiss, format, and the deck went 4-1...losing to an esper discard control. It ran through jund, white weenie, and another grixis deck almost effortlessly after Side Boards came into the equation.
The main is pretty solid against a Creature deck...that doesn't fly, but anything of any real threat was countered in time by my 1 of 5 MD counters.
Time warp worked out alright. It came up at the moments I needed it, and often-times lead straight into a Cruel Ultimatum that people weren't expecting because it set me ahead the extra lands I needed. It's not too powerful, but it comes through when it doesn't get countered. I'm not all for it, but it was reliable. Specially when Jace 2.0 was on my field :)...on top of that, it's fun when you're at 6 and you drop a big EQ and direct your damage at jace
I think Ponder is a viable draw spell, and very versatile. Anything that leaves me with mana open for my responses, I'm fine with. I ended many of my games with the Manlands.
Again, 4-1. 2nd place out of 18-20, I didn't check specifics, but I think that's how many you need for 5 rounds of swiss...I'll check my DCI in tournies. :/
Naya isn't too much of a worry, specially with 4 Deathmark, 3 Flashfreeze, and the MD creature hate.
Tectonic Edge is usually only run in major creature decks, or along with ajani vengeant, which to me, isn't too much of a threat with the control in this deck :/ I don't consider vampires a threat with this deck either...for obvious reasons :/ I stay away from cards like flashfreeze and Deathmark in MD because there will always be a game where they're just utterly useless...if anything I'd be more tempted to play deathmark :/ otherwise I'll stick with the insurance that gives me assurance
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3 Double Negative
2 Flashfreeze
2 Negate
Another issue - In order to deal with Tectonic Edge, and to deal with the control mirrors that will have 30+ mana sources (counting Everflowing Chalice), I think the deck needs 27 land. With that in mind, I think I would advocate a list similar to my last one (2-3 pages back) except with the counter suite posted above, and
-1 Calcite Snapper, -1 Soji
+1 Lavaclaw Reaches, +1 Mind Spring
Thanks to Avatar for the rockin' Sig and Avvy!
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Mountain
2 Swamp
3 Island
1 Sphinx of lost truths
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
4 Treasure Hunt
3 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
2 Earthquake
2 smother
3 Double Negative
3 Essence Scatter
2 Flashfreeze
2 Flashfreeze
2 Swerve
3 Magma Spray
3 Malakir Booldwitch
1 Haunting Echoes
2 negates
2 permafrost trap
this is what i ran last night and went 4-1-1
little detail on my results
Round 1 mono R gobs 2-1
before the game even starts i know the kid probably isnt playing a very competitive deck based on past decks ive seen him play
Game 1 i keep a hand with little removal based on the information above and felt greedy with my hand full of lands +treasure hunt /cruel.
I get punished as i should have he nails me with 3 gob guides by turn 2 and i cant dig for a answer
game 2 he starts off the same way but this time i have the bolt / smother in hand to slow him down and stall to turn 7 and i just back to back cruel him for the win
game 3 he starts off with gob guide again! and turn 2 bushwhacker followed by a turn 3 bushwacker getting in for some serious damage i drop a turn 3 earthquake to wipe the board. he throws burn at me left and right and i barely squeeze by at 1 health on turn 7 to land the cruel and take control of the game...i play jace2.0 and just fateseal his threats even though im holding tons of answer just to get his ultimate off for the first time in a tourny lol and i win
i took a beating from beeing to greedy with my opening hand game 1 and i learned a bit from it
Match 2 RDW 2-0
not going to go much into detail with this i saw tons of flashfreeze / removal and win with back to back cruels both games and was a 1 sided game the entire time
Match 3 5 color control 2-1
game 1i win the die roll and play a very slow game and i notice hes stuck on 4 lands and cant do anything "savage lands, savage lands, lavaclaw reaches , mountain" so im thinkin hes got double green in his hand or a handfull of broodmates and he still sees no land i win the game with jar jar sphinx and see him play nothing
game 2 i board in all the jund hate and it turns out....hes not jund hes actually playing a deck with 0 creatures and so my hand with terminates, smothers, and flashfreeze isnt as good as i anticipated...he turn 4 thought hemo's my cruel and turn 6 he drops a obelisk of alara and slowly wins the game with some burn and the obelisk
game 3 i board out my jund hate and removal and load up on negate haunting echoes and bloodwitches ...had no reason not too
he turn 4 thought hemos my cruel again and i couldnt see double blue for my double negative so i loose my cruels. but somehow i draw into some land i need and the sphinx to win the game
Round 4 Vampires 2-0
i was dreading this match all night considering its probably our hardest MU for grixis
game 1 he kept a slower hand and by the time he can start dropping threats i have answers untill gravy street turn 7 and make quick work of him
game 2 happens the same way i get beat with a nocturnis for a bit but jace 2.0 kept him off the board long enough to win the game again
after the game ended i realized he diddnt drop a single bloodghast so i asked him if he ran them and apparently he just had bad luck seeing them against me ....guess that makes a huge part of it
round 5 i draw into top 8
Top 8 round 1 Artifact aggro 1-2
game 1 mull to 6 with a hand full of bolts and flashfreeze...i soon find out flashfreeze is worthless in this game and he has the Ethersworn Shieldmage for every bolt i have ..i stall out on 4 lands and loose to a master of etherium
game 2 i mull to 5 but the hand consists of 3 land a terminate and a bloodwitch somehow i get the land to play both bloodwitches and get in for mad beats
game 3 i mull to 5 again and he drops a turn 2 sculler to take out my only out and i get slowrolled by a bunch of the pro red outlander
was pretty dissapointing to have a good run and loose to the fact i had to mull every game.."not to metnion it was the only match i had to mull all night"
overall im pleased with the way the deck performed i am gonna switch up my board a bit for my meta and am possibly considering replacing my 1 of sphinx of lost truths for a sorin
:symr::symw::symu: r/w/u control
:symr::symb::symg: jund
Extended
:symu::symw: revilark
your meta sounds like a breeze.
and that artifact aggro was the esper discard control I lost against because of multiple esper charms, but he didn't have as many creatures as you display in your explanation...it's the version to take grixis I think. With 4 Scullers, 4 duress, and 4 Esper Charms, it can get tedious at times. But that's where the deathmark and terminate come in handy; I think that if you had smother in your list that you shouldn't have lost. They have pretty small creatures and normally terminate alone can handle it. Not to mention your 4 jace 2.0. you really lost?
And you seriously need better draw than just 4 treasure hunt.
plz edit your post to limited words, we all know how the match-up against vamps goes, and we don't need a turn-by-turn outtake of the whole tourny...just a general idea :/
I say it in the kindest, most gentle way I can.
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actually my meta if full of vamps / jund...we had a weird turn out last night which is where those weird decks came from
as far as editing my post....no ty too lazy
thx
:symr::symw::symu: r/w/u control
:symr::symb::symg: jund
Extended
:symu::symw: revilark
made top 8, barely(good tie breakers)
and swept 3 games straight ftw...im glad I didn't pay for the box I got thought...2 fetches, iona, doj, and WOOOOOOOOO a foil lightcaster..
has anyone tested chain reaction(i think thats its name)
the red wrath?
And now I see why vampires are such a problem...vamps swept me like it was their job..
3 Calcite Snapper
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
2 Sorin Markov
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Essence Scatter
3 Negate
3 Double Negative
Other Spells
3 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Earthquake
4 Treasure Hunt
1 Mind Spring
Sideboard and land base are still the same in my other post. I found that I don't see enough counters and it can potentially cost me the game. Jund is nonexistent in my meta, but there is at least one fellow running Naya Lightsabre, so Double Negative is back in. I don't like seeing BBE hit the field, if it can be helped. I may SB 1 Double Negative and put in 1 Into the Roil, or perhaps drop Mind Spring/1 Treasure Hunt, and add a second, but we'll see how this works, first. I definitely see the value of Into the Roil but it's difficult to decide on how to fit it in
GBW Nic-Fit GBW
UBRWG Dredge UBRWG
Modern:
R RDW R
UBW Esper Control UBW
EDH:
BG Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord BG
Actually, when someone takes the time to post a play-by-play of their results, it is actually quite helpful and insightful. It helps quite a bit more than someone just posting a record.
/shrug
Just my .02.
I put 1 Chain Reaction in my SB last night and was glad to see it. There was once when I had to wait an extra turn to use it to make sure he would play another creature to get the damage up high enough to wipe the board, but it always did its job.
It's definitely not a MB card. Not being able to finish or hit planeswalkers hurts too much. In the SB, it's a great complement to Earthquake.
E: It's also another way of getting rid of Great Sable Stag if there are 2 other creatures out.
that was really, really helpful. always welcome to post that stuff, IMO
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=537903
1st why don't we run ponder? i myself don't either so i have no opinion but i had considered it because what else do we really do turn one?
2nd are people seriously running traumatic visions? perhaps theres something im missing but i don't see the use? please elaborate if you will
3rd sphinx of the lost truths isn't good, in any control, or any other deck really there are infinite ways to spend 7 mana that will net you better results. CU is the perfect example, hell id rather drop Thraximundar, or soulquake so next turn you can CU the baneslayer they re-play
4th mysteries of the deep is pretty bad.. thers only 2 draw spells left worth playing, divination and treasure hunt. i prefer divination because it has 0 chance of cycling for 2 mana.. which regardless of how balls deep the pros are in that card, isn't worth it without running halimar depths and jaces, and depths isn't worth making all of the blue sources come into play tapped, there would only be a few left depending on how many drowned catacombs are left in your deck from tar pits.(this opinion is stated in context with THIS deck, RWU control puts TH to better use IMO)
4-0-0
i run 2 chain reactions in my SB.. allys are going to be very good, eldrazi green is growing and they both take it on the chin to this card. eldrazi gobs, with assault and the new quest might be pretty decent too.
4-0-0
Ponder isn't really card advantage. I suppose it's better than a 'cycled' Treasure Hunt, but how often do we drop a U untapped first turn? I also disagree that TH is better in RWU, we can use the extra mana better and we need to drop a land every turn, RWU can cast every spell in the deck with 5 lands on the board (X spells not included, they use Chalice anyhow). There's better spells to play than Ponder in this deck.
Traumatic Visions is a pet card of sorts. Players that run it land cycle it early or use it for a late game counter. Which is why they only run one or two. I personally see no use.
Play tapped lands?
Mana fixing cycler early, hard counter later?
I played a game where a turn 3 Treasure Hunt drew me 6 lands and completely turned the game around. I kept with 2 lands a treasure hunt and 4 other spells, hoping to draw into more but hadn't by turn 3. TH drew me 7 cards and ended up being a game changing play. For 2 mana, that's pretty good.
I'll give a brief run of the night.
1 round vs Mono Red (2-0)
As you see i didnt write RDW because this guy was a noob. He was playing Shivan Dragon and some other big creatures that costed a lot. So this, was easy. Not too much to detail here.
1-0
2 Round vs Vamps (2-1)
I played a friend of mine that i cosidered a good player, but fairly new to magic. First game i got Mind Sluged but i recouped very well since he got stucked on four lands for 3 turns. For second game, i took 6 cards out, and put 3 Wrench Banquet 1 Negate 1 Essence Scatter 1 Swerve. These changes made the deck better geared towards this match-up, and these were the changes i made everytime i played agaist Vamps.
Second game i got mind Sludged twice! I almost recover but wasnt enough. Third game, i had all the defense i needed on hand, so i was good from the start. One card that i was really impressed of was Wrench Banquet. It really shinned.
2-0
3 Round vs Vamps (0-2)
This guy was playing a different kind of Vamp list. I saw bunch of Boolghasts, Nocturnos, He also had the new 6/6 trample/flyer demon from WW wich i had to kill with a Chandra. He wasnt runing mind Sludge and that made me side in the wrong cards, and that how i lost my second round, with negates and swerves in hand where i needed other stuff at that time.
4 round vs Vamps!!!! (2-0)
This time, i had to face a lot of Boodghast and Highborns. She is very dangerous and if yopu dont time well your earthquakes she can hurt you a lot more that you think. Then the bloodghast wioth Noctornus can finish you off quick. In this match i didnot play a single creature, and my planeswalkers killed him both games. (Sorin)
3-1
5 round vs Jund (2-1)
Finally, something different than Vamps
But i knew this match was going to be hard. Eventhough i was runing 4 spreding seas main(4 flashfreeze sideboard) my opponent is a top 5 player from GA state. He got a good amount of pro points and is still in his best shape.
First game he got up to four lands with no red mana. My spreading seas worked like a charm when he finally found one. By that time i was way ahead of the game, and evnthough he hit me with the best of Jund, i was ready for it. My Jar Jar finished him in no time.
Game two i got double duress, triple blightning. However i stayed in the game way longer that what he tought. This is when i realized that this deck doesnt give up. I can pull comeback out of nowwhere. But not this time
Game three he started with a solid hand. Duress, blightning(only one), BB elves, Thrinax, M of the Wild Hunt.I had answer for almost everything. However the only thing i didnt draw well in this game was...draw spells. So i kind of ran out of gas.Towards the end of the game he had 2 thrinaxs in play whiel i just played a Chandra Nalaar. I still had a bolt and a terminat on hand and a blue-black manland. Well, that and a top decked earthquake next turn put me back of the winning track. I killed him with Chandra and the blue-black manland.It was very close.
4-1
round 5 vs Valakut g/r (2-0)
This match-up is very easy since i had spreading seas main for those Valakut, or screw their green sources. Counter his ramp spells, hit him with Cruel U, and kill him with my planeswalker and Jar jar. Its like the dream match-up vs Grixis.
Second game gets even easier when i bring in my flashfreezes and my third negate.
5-1
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Earthquake
3 Smother
4 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Treasure Hunt
3 Double Negative
3 Flashfreeze
2 Traumatic Visions
3 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Dragonskull Summit
3 Drowned Catacomb
4 Crumbling Necropolis
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Deathmark
1 Flashfreeze
4 Spreading Seas
3 Negate
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
This was a good player with a good deck, so it was bittersweet to face him in the first round. I knew if I won this one it would really help my breakers (and I was right as he went on to go 3-1 for the night)
Game 1: I traded some removal for his guys then stabilized with a Jace to fateseal him, buy a turn with his crackback, then bounce and counter until I could cruel.
Game 2: I boarded in the Flashfreeze and Deathmark for Double Negatives and 2 Treasure Hunt. I traded removal for his dudes, most of which were huge because of double Oran-Rief. Luckily Smother, Terminate, and Deathmark don't really care and I was able to kill everything until Jace came online and made sure he didn't draw any more gas. A Sphinx and a Cruel finished things up.
(2-0 in games, 1-0 in matches)
Round 2 - Vampires (splashing red for Lightning Bolt and Blightning)
This was not a match-up I was looking forward to, but I saw a Blightning during shuffling which made my Flashfreezes active at least.
Game 1: I had a repeat of Game 1 from the first round. Traded some removal for his guys, and he was forced to trot out some gatekeepers with no targets to keep up any pressure at all. I landed a Jace, fixed for a cruel, and after his hand was cleared I dropped down a Sphinx for mop-up duty.
Game 2: I had to mull to 5, and after using removal on his turn 2 Hexmage and turn 3 Nighthawk, I was left with only Lightning Bolt to try and deal with his turn 4 Nocturnus. He proceeded to have a black card on top of his library for 5(!?) turns in a row. Jace what down to try and find an answer, which he did in the form of terminate. I thought I had stabilized at 5 life but got double bolted to end that idea.
Game 3: I drew the right kind of removal, negated a duress and a blightning (which I boarded in afraid of sludge), and finished the game by protecting Jace and swinging in with a pumped Lavaclaw Reaches 3 times with counter backup.
(4-1 in games, 2-0 in matches)
Round 3 - Bant
This is the guy who I had played the last 3 weeks with Jund, and he destroyed me with Spreading Seas more often than not.
Game 1: He ramped into a turn 2 Rhox War Monk, which ate a smother, followed by a Emeria Angel, which ate a Lightning Bolt. He then dropped turn 4 Baneslayer, which got Terminated. I hit a Treasure Hunt for 5 which set me up with control for the rest of the game.
Game 2: More of the same (I feel like I'm always typing the same thing), except I have even more removal for him and Malakir Bloodwitch. It was the same process as game 1, but there was one turn where he played Baneslayer and double Scute Mob (with more than 5 lands out). I nuked both Scute Mobs, then untapped and dropped Sphinx and Deathmarked his Baneslayer. That about sums it up. I felt like my post-board game against green decks were almost perfect; I was planning on this stuff for Jund but I'll take what I get.
(6-1 in games, 3-0 in matches)
Round 4 - Eldrazi Green (again)
Game 1: I mull to 5, resolve double Cruel Ultimatum... and still lose. He comes out way to fast and I have no removal. Jace is a minor roadblock as he curves out from Llanowar to Archdruid to Eldrazi, dropping more elves each time and finishing with a Master of the Wild Hunt.
Game 2: He gets me down to 3 with his early rush, but I stabilize with a Cruel and Jace. I Earthquake to kill his dudes post-Cruel, then finish off his Nissa with a Sphinx, who kills him shortly after
Game 3: Another mull to 5, but I have some removal and I am able to slow him down enough to set up a turn where I Earthquake for 4 killing Garruk and 4 Elves. Jace fateseals the rest of the game while I beat in with Creeping Tar Pit and Bolt him for the win.
(8-2 in games, 4-0 in matches)
I got 8 or so WWK packs for first, from which I pulled a Jace (2nd week in a row from prize packs!) and got a promo Path and well. Was a good night all things considered.
Notes and Questions: I was sketchy on the Traumatic Visions, but they were amazing all night, most often than not I was wishing my Treasure Hunts were more copies of Visions. I still wouldn't go more than 2, but the Hunts were sub-par almost all night. Can the manabase handle Halimar Depths as a 2-of to improve the Hunts? Now that I have a 4th Jace, should I be rocking all 4 of them? I thought 3 was the perfect number, but he's so freaking powerful. What can I cut to make room for some Calcite Snappers?, I'm not really happy cutting anything, but I'd like to give them a shot. And finally, should I be using Swerve instead of Spreading Seas for the Jund matchup? The Seas weren't really used this week, but I know how much they sucked for me to see when I was running Jund...
Sorry for the super-long post, but let me know what you guys think.
Words I have trouble living by...
You've got 8 lands that CIPT no matter what and 6 that CIPT if you don't have the right basic land out. Do you really want to up that number? Also, I tested it out and I was never really thrilled with them.
I'd keep it at no more than three. The deck is already packed with so much goodness why cram another one in?
If it were me, I'd cut the Smother for room for the Snappers. Mainly because you're need for removal will drop with them out. Run no more than three though because having a bunch in hand is never a real welcome sight.
I'd keep the Seas, I use them maindeck there that good in my meta. Swerve can be pretty nasty in the right situation, but pretty much you're only going to be Swerving hand disruption/counterspells. You've got so much SB goodness I wouldn't try fitting both...
The match write up provided some nice insight on how to handle different decks and situations. Very nice! And congrats on pulling another Jace!