What about the UW matchup? or Titan? I think I am fairly comfortable with it, enough to play with it at a major tournament, I consider myself a good player, and I know the other decks well enough as I have played varients of them over the season, it is just a matter of not having interactions between them and dredegvine.
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UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
It really feels like your biggest opponent will always be yourself- this deck is really, really complicated to play well and most people are pretty unprepared how to handle it. Getting a real sense of mastery in how to play close to optimally is an enormous edge.
I am playing the 'Bloodvine build'. I am usually a control player and while I do know the deck a bit I think you are right, I am sure I can know it much better, I know the other decks rather well, just not really the line where they meet up with this one in matches so really I have no clue. I know how to use my sideboard for the most part, but game one is not so easy I suppose.
I was thinking I would probably go for extractor demons with digging with the shaman, mill the vengies and drop doppleganger fairly early. I have been using the doppleganger usually to give an extra exalted going in the early game and usually saving him to use with the demon. If a ground pound is clear then I usually use him as another vengie... idk I guess I will have to wait and see. I am use to it against the FNM decks here because recently they have been just random stuff, for some reason the tier 1 decks have stopped gracing us.
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UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
How are you guys beating Titan Ramp? It feels impossible to me. I dont know whether Im just not getting fast draws, lucky mills or whether Im just misplaying but I always lose to something like:
T1: Forest
T2: Explore
T3: Cultivate
T4: All is Dust / Primeval Titan
T5: Another Titan / Avenger of Zendikar / Eldrazi / Other huge spell
It always feels like the game is decided by the 3rd / 4th turn.
I feel like the deck runs out of steam too quickly - either out of creatures for Fauna Shaman / Vengevines or gets mana-screwed by awkward draws. I tried to find something that drew me cards for little mana and the only things I found that I liked were Sphinx of Lost Truths and Time Reversal but both seem underwhelming and neither help against Titan Ramp.
This deck is really powerful and just smashes a lot of the popular decks that people will play in your grinders. Coral Merfolk is a surprisingly efficient threat and It That Betrays is an excellent finisher in a format where there is little removal, allowing you to grind out games against opponents that are proving hard to kill. I strongly recommend this deck. Valakut Titan decks have nothing on UB Coral/Betrays.
Titan ramp decks or things with destructive force can mess you up if you don't get the speedy kill. Then you side in unified will. I run a deck kind of like Ochoa's but with the bloodghast/ monument package over the heirarchs. I saw people complaining about Linvala, she can slow you down but remember you still can unearth the demon, copy things with doppleganger, mill with the crab recur the vines.
Titan ramp decks or things with destructive force can mess you up if you don't get the speedy kill. Then you side in unified will. I run a deck kind of like Ochoa's but with the bloodghast/ monument package over the heirarchs. I saw people complaining about Linvala, she can slow you down but remember you still can unearth the demon, copy things with doppleganger, mill with the crab recur the vines.
This. Even with Linvala out, they'll eventually have to use her to chump a Demon / Vine or else risk getting aggroed out too quickly.
Ive had a lot of success with this deck, attacking for ten with a renegade and a demon for ten on turn three, and 27 turn four with bloodbraid into renegade bringing back four vengvines.
I am running the bloodvine version. The deck just wins with good mills.
one of things that i have found with great use against eldrazi is slave to bolas or unified will. i am running the GUB verson of dredgevine and i have no problem with getting mana for it. the other thing is that if they have the oracle out i always mill them for 3 with crabs. best case i get rid of that and 3 ramps worst i just made them screw up their draw that they have with jace 2.0
Ive had a lot of success with this deck, attacking for ten with a renegade and a demon for ten on turn three, and 27 turn four with bloodbraid into renegade bringing back four vengvines.
I am running the bloodvine version. The deck just wins with good mills.
If you bloodbraid into renegade, it will trigger vengvines, but I do not believe you can copy the incoming vengvines with the renegade. Bloodbraid is the first creature cast, and renegade is the 2nd, hence it's not in play as vengvines come back.
What happens to this deck after rotation? I want to make the deck but dont want to if it just dies after rotation
No expensive cards rotate. You'd be fine to make it as Vengevines are a good card, regardless.
If you bloodbraid into renegade, it will trigger vengvines, but I do not believe you can copy the incoming vengvines with the renegade. Bloodbraid is the first creature cast, and renegade is the 2nd, hence it's not in play as vengvines come back.
You are right. The most you can do is copy the bloodbraid. Still enough for lethal but the odds of you milling 4 vengevines by turn 3 AND having all the necessities in your hand are.. well.. unlikely.
First thoughts w/o testing: It seems pretty random and I don't know how much I like a lot of his 1-of tech. I think it's really nice that he has Linvala MD and I would probably keep her. I feel like the deck is missing out on a lot w/o the Renegade Doppelganger to lead to some explosive plays. I would probably go -1 Meddling Mage, -1 Enclave Cryptologist, -2 Lotus Cobra, +4 Renegade Doppelganger.
Although we lose Extractor Demon with this build, R.D becomes a potentially more massive Knight of the Reliquary. I really like how the knight becomes a massive beater, despite bad mills. As soon as I saw GerryT tweet about his bant list (but before the list was spoiled), I threw something together that included the knight (the only W card MD) and Leatherback Baloth. This quick build further confirmed my feelings about keeping the Doppelganger in the deck.
Can this deck exist as just UG. I was thinking something more focused on the combo with a strong counter backup. Possibly JTMS to set up your draws and/or to clear the way.
I know both black and white have valuable peices to add but if you look at the bant version all you really get maindeck is KoTR (which i know is a bomb) and PtE. KoTR can get chump blocked all day. Is it worth making your mana base more complex for 6-7 cards? I dont know because I never piloted that version, just speculating. I think black has more value because the alchemist can set up huge plays, bloodghast fits great, and extractor demon atleast has evasion. Although the 3rd color allows you to add man-lands, is it necessary?
If I had more time I would come up with a list for UG but I have work and wanted to get my idea up before I forgot. What do you think?
how consistent is this though? honestly I would be playing 3 kuldotha phoenix 4 Bloodghast 3 renegade doppleganger 4 Hedron Crab myself. and how are the memnites helping in multiples? I find it very risky to put the fate of a structured synergy in the hands of a card type that dies way too easily to removal...why not play 2 memnite 2 Trinket Mage with the essential artifacts mentioned in the New Card Discussion thread?
Here is my decklist, and I was truly thinking of doubleposting just for the attention, because I truly think this deck can exist as a good sleeper deck when played properly (after studying each proper card interaction with extreme scrutiny, because my team-mates do not think that Hedron Crab is very helpful...or the Kuldotha Phoenix for that matter)
I was thinking of completely dropping Bloodghasts and black altogether for red to make hardcasting Kuldotha Phoenix an option...but Bloodghast is kinda good as an early source of ping damage. Currently, Kuldotha Phoenix might not make the cut after a future series of extensive testing.
Update: Emirang is a jerk and a genius. After returning from the SoM pre-release he suggested Putrefax as our replacement for Extractor Demon come the rotation. While not exactly a replacement, this suggestion seems quite broken with Renegade Doppleganger, being able to kill an unprepared opponent. Unfortunately, the alien spawn dies at the end of turn, but it shouldnt matter...unless you REALLY REALLY like him.
Anyway, I have an edit to the decklist, which is as follows
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
HEY! Just cause I jokingly suggest amazing ideas doesn't make me a genius... wait a minute, that doesn't sound quite right. Well anyway, I feel Putrefax makes a great back up answer to the crazy amount of graveyard hard available to players. Paired with a doppleganger the two swing for lethal in poison counters. With the bonus of our favorite blue alien not dieing if they both connect.
On to the other point i was trying to make about the future of dredgevine in standard. Hedron Crab is doing very little to maintain his spot in the deck anymore. Without Extractor Demon and the like milling your own deck has very little benefit. Vengevine is the driving force of the aggro team, a mere 4 cards out of 60. Sure every now and then you'll get lucky and hit a vengevine in those 3-6 cards but it will more consistently hit pieces of the engine as they make up a larger portion of the deck. Fauna Shaman, Enclave Cryptologist,
Trinket Mage, etc, will do absolutely nothing from the grave.
To be quite honest though, the core of this deck is about explosive plays that are achieved through use of the graveyard as a pool of potential card advantage. If we did not have Hedron Crab as an early drop, I feel that this deck would transform into something along the lines of Next Level Bant but with black.
@ kaelthas18- yes the doppleganger dies when it copies putrefax. emirang was just making a joke about how much I hate seeing doppleganger die.
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
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From testing Naya won 55/45 preboard and the match was roughly 50/50 postboard.
Dredgevine is a tough deck to play, so if you're unfamiliar with it I don't recommend taking it to a major tourney.
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
I was thinking I would probably go for extractor demons with digging with the shaman, mill the vengies and drop doppleganger fairly early. I have been using the doppleganger usually to give an extra exalted going in the early game and usually saving him to use with the demon. If a ground pound is clear then I usually use him as another vengie... idk I guess I will have to wait and see. I am use to it against the FNM decks here because recently they have been just random stuff, for some reason the tier 1 decks have stopped gracing us.
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
T1: Forest
T2: Explore
T3: Cultivate
T4: All is Dust / Primeval Titan
T5: Another Titan / Avenger of Zendikar / Eldrazi / Other huge spell
It always feels like the game is decided by the 3rd / 4th turn.
I feel like the deck runs out of steam too quickly - either out of creatures for Fauna Shaman / Vengevines or gets mana-screwed by awkward draws. I tried to find something that drew me cards for little mana and the only things I found that I liked were Sphinx of Lost Truths and Time Reversal but both seem underwhelming and neither help against Titan Ramp.
This. Even with Linvala out, they'll eventually have to use her to chump a Demon / Vine or else risk getting aggroed out too quickly.
I am running the bloodvine version. The deck just wins with good mills.
What happens? WHAT HAPPENS? Jesus, man, if I knew that I'd be a world famous psychic somewhere!
But I know one thing: No rotation discussion.
If you bloodbraid into renegade, it will trigger vengvines, but I do not believe you can copy the incoming vengvines with the renegade. Bloodbraid is the first creature cast, and renegade is the 2nd, hence it's not in play as vengvines come back.
________________STANDARD________________
UBW Soorani Esper Control UBW
UBW Nicholas Spagnolo's Drownyard Control UBW
___________________EDH___________________
UB Wydwen, the Biting Gale UB
W Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker W
No expensive cards rotate. You'd be fine to make it as Vengevines are a good card, regardless.
You are right. The most you can do is copy the bloodbraid. Still enough for lethal but the odds of you milling 4 vengevines by turn 3 AND having all the necessities in your hand are.. well.. unlikely.
It will go up on tcgplayer soon as it was a qualifier. Just check out the site regularly.
Cheers,
Zen
1 Aether Adept
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Extractor Demon
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Hedron Crab
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Renegade Doppelganger
4 Sedraxis Specter
4 Vengevine
4 Ancient Ziggurat
3 Forest
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
3 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Cunning Sparkmage
3 Disfigure
3 Nature's Claim
3 Obstinate Baloth
2 Pithing Needle
Plus, if if you feel like watching a few games: My Stream
I'm normally on most nights between 6pm-whenever.
Not thing..on the weekend Gerry T played a BANT dredgevine list and won a TCGPLAYER Qualifier.
Cheers,
Zen
PS Lists would prob be up on the site in the next few days!
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Hedron Crab
1 Enclave Cryptologist
1 Meddling Mage
2 Lotus Cobra
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Vengevine
3 Ranger of Eos
1 Æther Adept
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Halimar Depths
1 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Plains
2 Island
5 Forest
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Path to Exile
1 Meddling Mage
4 Unified Will
1 Emeria Angel
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Pithing Needle
First thoughts w/o testing: It seems pretty random and I don't know how much I like a lot of his 1-of tech. I think it's really nice that he has Linvala MD and I would probably keep her. I feel like the deck is missing out on a lot w/o the Renegade Doppelganger to lead to some explosive plays. I would probably go -1 Meddling Mage, -1 Enclave Cryptologist, -2 Lotus Cobra, +4 Renegade Doppelganger.
Although we lose Extractor Demon with this build, R.D becomes a potentially more massive Knight of the Reliquary. I really like how the knight becomes a massive beater, despite bad mills. As soon as I saw GerryT tweet about his bant list (but before the list was spoiled), I threw something together that included the knight (the only W card MD) and Leatherback Baloth. This quick build further confirmed my feelings about keeping the Doppelganger in the deck.
Actually no, meddling mage is really only good in multiples. I misread the list.
I know both black and white have valuable peices to add but if you look at the bant version all you really get maindeck is KoTR (which i know is a bomb) and PtE. KoTR can get chump blocked all day. Is it worth making your mana base more complex for 6-7 cards? I dont know because I never piloted that version, just speculating. I think black has more value because the alchemist can set up huge plays, bloodghast fits great, and extractor demon atleast has evasion. Although the 3rd color allows you to add man-lands, is it necessary?
If I had more time I would come up with a list for UG but I have work and wanted to get my idea up before I forgot. What do you think?
Post Rotation Dredge
4 Vengevine
4 Kuldotha Phoenix
3 Bloodghast
4 Enclave Cryptologist
3 Hedron Crab
4 Renegade Doppelganger
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Memnite
4 Grindclock
3 Liquimetal Coating
Land
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Forest
3 Island
2 Swamp
3 Mountain
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Currently Playing:
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Check out our EDH Cube! Constructive discussion welcomed. Hell, just a response would be nice.
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Here is my decklist, and I was truly thinking of doubleposting just for the attention, because I truly think this deck can exist as a good sleeper deck when played properly (after studying each proper card interaction with extreme scrutiny, because my team-mates do not think that Hedron Crab is very helpful...or the Kuldotha Phoenix for that matter)
2 Kuldotha Phoenix
4 Vengevine
2 Trinket Mage
4 Bloodghast
3 Renegade Doppleganger
3 Fauna Shaman
4 Hedron Crab
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Enclave Cryptologist
2 Memnite
1 Infiltration Lens
1 Chimeric Mass
2 Everflowing Chalice
2 Mox Opal
3 Darkslick Shores
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
5 Forest
4 Island
2 Swamp
I was thinking of completely dropping Bloodghasts and black altogether for red to make hardcasting Kuldotha Phoenix an option...but Bloodghast is kinda good as an early source of ping damage. Currently, Kuldotha Phoenix might not make the cut after a future series of extensive testing.
Update: Emirang is a jerk and a genius. After returning from the SoM pre-release he suggested Putrefax as our replacement for Extractor Demon come the rotation. While not exactly a replacement, this suggestion seems quite broken with Renegade Doppleganger, being able to kill an unprepared opponent. Unfortunately, the alien spawn dies at the end of turn, but it shouldnt matter...unless you REALLY REALLY like him.
Anyway, I have an edit to the decklist, which is as follows
4 Putrefax
4 Vengevine
4 Bloodghast
4 Renegade Doppleganger
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Hedron Crab
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Enclave Cryptologist
4 Grim Discovery
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
5 Forest
4 Island
3 Swamp
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
HEY! Just cause I jokingly suggest amazing ideas doesn't make me a genius... wait a minute, that doesn't sound quite right. Well anyway, I feel Putrefax makes a great back up answer to the crazy amount of graveyard hard available to players. Paired with a doppleganger the two swing for lethal in poison counters. With the bonus of our favorite blue alien not dieing if they both connect.
On to the other point i was trying to make about the future of dredgevine in standard. Hedron Crab is doing very little to maintain his spot in the deck anymore. Without Extractor Demon and the like milling your own deck has very little benefit. Vengevine is the driving force of the aggro team, a mere 4 cards out of 60. Sure every now and then you'll get lucky and hit a vengevine in those 3-6 cards but it will more consistently hit pieces of the engine as they make up a larger portion of the deck. Fauna Shaman, Enclave Cryptologist,
Trinket Mage, etc, will do absolutely nothing from the grave.
right?
@ kaelthas18- yes the doppleganger dies when it copies putrefax. emirang was just making a joke about how much I hate seeing doppleganger die.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control