Wow not the answers I was expecting but it was the answers I wanted to hear
What did you guys cut for 1 more Steppe? A plains?
I only run 1 Plains. Copying Zvi's list almost identically, I cut 1 Sunpetal Grove for a Steppe (and 1 Verdant Catacombs for an Elspeth, but that's beside the point).
My thoughts are that we already have Sejiri Steppe, which is awesome on it's on since we can tutor it up 80% of the time with a Knight on the board. I'll have to do some testing with it, but for now I'm happier with Steppes.
well first, i will admit, i mis-read distortion smite. i thought was instant. unscathed is better.
second, it think doing both the steppes and the unscathed are a good idea to run. you could also do your build with good protectin without the knights if you so wished. i like.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
USMC Enlistment Progress: Beat MEPS, just gotta finish school and I'm off to boot camp.
Allies is starting to run rampant in my meta. I'm Running Zvi's Mythic deck with a minor change in the mana base and SB.
I run 2 Sejiri Steppe (-1 Sunpetal Grove) and in the SB, I run 2 Mind Control (instead of 4) and 2 Vapor Snare (I find at time, UU is hard to come by).
All Zvi's side board suggestions from his SCG article are spot on in my opinion, but he didn't address allies, which is understandable because they're not really a tier 1 deck. The allies builds I've been seeing are the Naya based decks with BBE, RoE and Violent Ultimatum.
The 1 DoJ in my SB works, if I can get to it, problem is, their creatures get big fast.
I tried -3 Finest Hour, -1 Rafiq of the Many, +3 Bant Charm and +1 Day of Judgment.
I think that the allie matchup is hard, but manageable. After playtesting with it and against it with zvis build, I think the key is to trade as often as possible. I know that we've been told to never chump block, but using your dudes to wipe their dudes, or even just to prevent their damage is key. Most of these decks seem to lose gas after turns 5/6, which is when you can be swinging with one BSA and holding one back to block. they have no removal, so puke your hand onto the table, match their aggressivness with your war monks and knights, and hope to rip two BSAs.
i also have 1 captured sunlight and 2 reborn hope that are in mostly for testing. i cant really think of good options beyond stuff like the flash freeze's. which will most likely go in before a tournement.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
USMC Enlistment Progress: Beat MEPS, just gotta finish school and I'm off to boot camp.
I'm pretty sure running an Umbra that gives a BSA/Thornling/Warmonk/SoJI basically a second life for 2-4 mana is a VERY good thing to do.
For example Hyena Umbra, Boar Umbra, or Snake Umbra could give any of those creatures above a minor damage bonus + effects. Hyena and Boar being just beatface effects and Snake with a nice CA effect as well.
The way I see it is that casting Hyena Umbra for example is kind of casting out 2 BSA's. Since they have to kill it twice. It allows my BSA to live another whole turn over how long it would survive without that one W drop Umbra. If I equip a Snake Umbra to it and after it attacks once it already has gained its worth too.
What are you guys thoughts on the Umbras? I like the Snake/Boar/Hyena ones the most. Hyena is crazy because of the double life effect and only costing 1 mana imo.
I don't think any of the Umbra's will be better than any creatures they would replace in the Mythic deck right now, except maybe on some certain matchups sideboard. But then again I am a newb scrub.
I think you're sorely overestimating the effect of Totem Armor in standard. The primary form of removal in the format is Path, which completely ignores it... Not exactly worth wasting a card slot on.
I understand where you are coming from but right now a lot of other decks are not playing paths primarily because ramping Jund to t4 SGC or t5 Broodmate = pain. And Jund makes up a huge chunk of the competitive field... Only competitive decks right now that run PtE main board are Naya and MAYBE control. Boss Naya decks only run 1 MB and control usually doesn't even run it but they have the capacity to if they wanted... WW decks don't even run more than 1-2.
I think you're sorely overestimating the effect of Totem Armor in standard. The primary form of removal in the format is Path, which completely ignores it... Not exactly worth wasting a card slot on.
I have tried using 3x negate and 3x vines of vastwood and have had good results vs. u/w control and jund. when you accelerate out of the gate, a wrath usually comes very fast so leaving 2 mana open for negate usually timewalks you and allows for some hard beatdown the next turn.
Vines is great for stopping removal on your turn, and pumping for another green. Couple that with exalted and any other effects you might have out (finest hour, rafiq) and you can usually swing in devastatingly hard.
Was thinking of using winged coatl to try alongside vines vs vamps in place of mind control, as he shuts down witch if you can flash him out...might as well read :1mana::symg::symu: : destroy vamp biotch. Have not tested it out yet.
Agreed. The only reason I suggested Hyena Umbra is because you can easily equip it with just one W. Efficiently giving your BSA 2 lives or what I could see myself using it for (this play happens quite a bit) t5 BSA and t6 Rafiq + Umbra on Rafiq or BSA. Dunno got to play test it a bit...
I agree. Path is just bad in this format. They are still around but not so much.
I honestly would play an umbra that gave trample and costed 2. That was something I could play, because it is relevant with Rafiq. Hyena Umbra is not that great, since our creatures are usually bigger in any case. The only use I see with that is on Jessian Infiltrator (T1 Hiearch, T2 Infiltrator + Hyena Umbra, T3 Rafiq ---> swing for 10 but again very conditional). The others are just too expensive.
I think you're sorely overestimating the effect of Totem Armor in standard. The primary form of removal in the format is Path, which completely ignores it... Not exactly worth wasting a card slot on.
Purge maybe but not path. As a big jund player I love you playing it. Please path my thrinax, please. Trading it for a land is acceptable to me. I do think umbra's will or might be the downfall of jund.
THey are not gonna be the downfall of jund because jund can just kill out the enchantment. So can almost any deck cept vampires but they dont need to. After seeing the umbras in action I feel by far the best is Hyena and I dont see many of the competetive meta decks running it except for boss naya or ww.
THey are not gonna be the downfall of jund because jund can just kill out the enchantment. So can almost any deck cept vampires but they dont need to. After seeing the umbras in action I feel by far the best is Hyena and I dont see many of the competetive meta decks running it except for boss naya or ww.
So jund wastes its removal on an enchantment..... seems good enough.
I play Jund as a secondary deck and your very mistaken. If you know how we play we play by out CA'ing our opponent. Your saying I can bolt + terminate or use some combination of removal to take out 1 of your creatures? That is painful...Jund can't BBE into removal to destroy a creature anymore instead it will just hit an Umbra and have to either attack into a creature that can 1-1 BBE or use another removal spell.
Don't know if it will be the downfall of Jund since some play testing needs to be obviously done but you saying "it doesn't matter" since we have "enough" removal is far from the truth. It does matter and it does matter a lot since most Jund decks run a total of 9 removal now a days. (4 bolt, 2 terminate, 3 pulse) If you want us to use 2 removal per 1 monster then thats roughly 4 monsters we can effectively removal for 8 of our cards. Not generating CA means Jund loses (usually).
Nothing, this deck should not need umbras. Mythic was made to out muscle the strength and speed of other decks. Due to the extreme mana acceleration of it it is just about dropping bombs and blowing players out. These umbras while good should have no place in Mythic due to the lack of things that can be taken out because they are needed.
Playing mythic bant, for all intensive purposes, the matches were we sideboard in negates and counters, we have more mana dorks and critters than most other decks. Unified Will stops more than just the board sweepers?
is this an auto upgrade? or would you play a split or is negate just the better unconditional narrower counter?
I only run 1 Plains. Copying Zvi's list almost identically, I cut 1 Sunpetal Grove for a Steppe (and 1 Verdant Catacombs for an Elspeth, but that's beside the point).
Edit: For reference, here's Zvi's original "Mythic" list http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32837
:symw::symu::symg:Sovereign Mythic (8-4-0)
:symw::symu:Mythic Bant (20-10-0)
:symr::symb::symg: Jund
:symw::symr::symg:Where Ancients Suck
well first, i will admit, i mis-read distortion smite. i thought was instant. unscathed is better.
second, it think doing both the steppes and the unscathed are a good idea to run. you could also do your build with good protectin without the knights if you so wished. i like.
I run 2 Sejiri Steppe (-1 Sunpetal Grove) and in the SB, I run 2 Mind Control (instead of 4) and 2 Vapor Snare (I find at time, UU is hard to come by).
All Zvi's side board suggestions from his SCG article are spot on in my opinion, but he didn't address allies, which is understandable because they're not really a tier 1 deck. The allies builds I've been seeing are the Naya based decks with BBE, RoE and Violent Ultimatum.
The 1 DoJ in my SB works, if I can get to it, problem is, their creatures get big fast.
I tried -3 Finest Hour, -1 Rafiq of the Many, +3 Bant Charm and +1 Day of Judgment.
Any suggestions?
2 Elspeth
4 Emerge Unscathed
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
i also have 1 captured sunlight and 2 reborn hope that are in mostly for testing. i cant really think of good options beyond stuff like the flash freeze's. which will most likely go in before a tournement.
For example Hyena Umbra, Boar Umbra, or Snake Umbra could give any of those creatures above a minor damage bonus + effects. Hyena and Boar being just beatface effects and Snake with a nice CA effect as well.
The way I see it is that casting Hyena Umbra for example is kind of casting out 2 BSA's. Since they have to kill it twice. It allows my BSA to live another whole turn over how long it would survive without that one W drop Umbra. If I equip a Snake Umbra to it and after it attacks once it already has gained its worth too.
What are you guys thoughts on the Umbras? I like the Snake/Boar/Hyena ones the most. Hyena is crazy because of the double life effect and only costing 1 mana imo.
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
WBVish Kal, Blood ArbiterWB
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
UBGVorosh, the HunterUBG
WRGisela, Blade of GoldnightWR
WUGJenara, Asura of WarWUG
WBGTeneb, The HarvesterWBG
WUBRGHorde of NotionsWUBRG
Vines is great for stopping removal on your turn, and pumping for another green. Couple that with exalted and any other effects you might have out (finest hour, rafiq) and you can usually swing in devastatingly hard.
Was thinking of using winged coatl to try alongside vines vs vamps in place of mind control, as he shuts down witch if you can flash him out...might as well read :1mana::symg::symu: : destroy vamp biotch. Have not tested it out yet.
Purge maybe but not path. As a big jund player I love you playing it. Please path my thrinax, please. Trading it for a land is acceptable to me. I do think umbra's will or might be the downfall of jund.
So jund wastes its removal on an enchantment..... seems good enough.
Don't know if it will be the downfall of Jund since some play testing needs to be obviously done but you saying "it doesn't matter" since we have "enough" removal is far from the truth. It does matter and it does matter a lot since most Jund decks run a total of 9 removal now a days. (4 bolt, 2 terminate, 3 pulse) If you want us to use 2 removal per 1 monster then thats roughly 4 monsters we can effectively removal for 8 of our cards. Not generating CA means Jund loses (usually).
Back on topic: I tested out a few games and Hyena Umbra has to be my favorite. I think it could possibly find a spot in Mythic Bant. Possibly a 2 of?
uh, Hyena Umbra doesn't double you life. sure you're not thinking of celestial mantle?
yah hyena umbra is +1 and 1st strike
Nothing. No Totem Armors should go in Bant. End of story. They might be fine at some other time, but if we don't have Rancor, it's not good enough.
:symw::symu::symg:Sovereign Mythic (8-4-0)
:symw::symu:Mythic Bant (20-10-0)
:symr::symb::symg: Jund
:symw::symr::symg:Where Ancients Suck
is this an auto upgrade? or would you play a split or is negate just the better unconditional narrower counter?