The only real stalling points seem to be the reliability of getting triple red by T5/T6 and that there is no reliable draw engine. I might swap SGO for Visionary just to have another two drop (and because it doesn't spread my colour base too much).
Instead of Elvish Visionary, might I recommend that you consider Prophetic Prism? It's another common, and it'll solve both your problems in one go. It's a two-drop that simultaneously draws, fixes, and doesn't stretch your color base.
I've been pondering with some cards as well. I'm planning on running 4 nest invaders, 4 kozileks predators and emrakuls hatchers. So tons of tokens. As an additional draw engine I came across (don't laugh) Skullmuncher.
For each creature you devouwer you get to draw 1 card. So sac a few tokens and draw 3-4 sounds good to me. Anyone tested this card?
you are unable to devour off of a warp, Devour says as it comes in to play you can sac any number of creatures. As Skullmuncher is entering play there are no creatures in play to sac.
(On a somewhat related note I live in an apartment with very thin walls and the internet meme "Surprise buttsecks!!" isn't just on the internet anymore. Man that girl sounded pissed off.)
Currently playing Standard
:symr::symu::symg::symw:Mid-range:symr::symu::symg::symw: Modern
:symu::symb::symw::symr:AdNauseam:symu::symb::symw::symr:
came in fourth place at fnm with a multi-warp combo deck. Pretty similar to the ones that have been listed here, ran a couple eldrazi mainboard which I will NOT be doing again--they were completely worthless.
HOWEVER. Nest invader is a hero. I won as many games on the back of vicious beats with 2/2s and 2/1 (go go cobra swing!) as I did multiwarping my opponent into a scoop.
My night went like this:
Match 1: nayallies (egh) I stalled the first game for half an hour and couldn't draw into a warp. Would have been dead in no time if it weren't for awakening zone. Ended up losing these matches. Booo. Awakening zone, however, came out at a winner.
Match 2: RDW, black splash. Game 1, he can't keep up with my 2/2 beatsticks and has to spend too much burn staying a live. Ondu giant wards off would be attackers.
Game 2: dead in the water, stalled out on three land.
Game 3: get a (sided in) gladehart to stick after baiting out some removal with my birds and cobra. Win on a warp that leaves him with a ball lightning and an arid mesa only...bye bye ball lightning. Swing for lethal damage next turn.
Match 3: Mythic.
Game 1: have a pretty good hand, so I keep that sucker. He ramps out a turn 3 baneslayer--whatever. Swings at me for 7, then next turn hits me again for 7. I top deck a warp world, and go off on him, getting out my pen and paper so I can track my ever-increasing mana. He gets frustrated after my fourth or fifth warp and scoops, as I started sniping his little guys with siege-gang before moving in for the kill.
Mythic: he sides in like two counterspells or something. Game went stupid well: turn 1 birds, turn 2 cobra, land, cobra, turn 3: sac land (don't pop) predator, turn 4 land, pop, warp, he scoops.
Match 4: Eldrazimorph. These were pretty fast matches. I beat his face in game 1 with Nest Invader and cobra beats. (lol?),
game 2 he got off a turn 5 emrakul, GG.
Game 3: He couldn't find white mana and I came down even harder with the fast beats.
Match 5: Semifinals, at this point, Nayallies again. Egh... no warps, and long games. I can stall that deck to kingdom come. Siege-gang would have been a hero if I hadn't been so tired at that point...killed evangels and stuff instead. Kazandu blademaster is my bane.
I'm looking at running a Magmaw or two alongside my siege-gangs. They can convert my spawn tokens into pings of death, and thats really needed. Other than that, I'm SERIOUSLY considering sea gate oracle to help dig for those game-ending warps, the ability to at least jump in front of incoming busses and occasionally survive is better than mana fixing, IMHO. but the colors are a real turn-off.
came in fourth place at fnm with a multi-warp combo deck. Pretty similar to the ones that have been listed here, ran a couple eldrazi mainboard which I will NOT be doing again--they were completely worthless.
HOWEVER. Nest invader is a hero. I won as many games on the back of vicious beats with 2/2s and 2/1 (go go cobra swing!) as I did multiwarping my opponent into a scoop.
My night went like this:
Match 1: nayallies (egh) I stalled the first game for half an hour and couldn't draw into a warp. Would have been dead in no time if it weren't for awakening zone. Ended up losing these matches. Booo. Awakening zone, however, came out at a winner.
Match 2: RDW, black splash. Game 1, he can't keep up with my 2/2 beatsticks and has to spend too much burn staying a live. Ondu giant wards off would be attackers.
Game 2: dead in the water, stalled out on three land.
Game 3: get a (sided in) gladehart to stick after baiting out some removal with my birds and cobra. Win on a warp that leaves him with a ball lightning and an arid mesa only...bye bye ball lightning. Swing for lethal damage next turn.
Match 3: Mythic.
Game 1: have a pretty good hand, so I keep that sucker. He ramps out a turn 3 baneslayer--whatever. Swings at me for 7, then next turn hits me again for 7. I top deck a warp world, and go off on him, getting out my pen and paper so I can track my ever-increasing mana. He gets frustrated after my fourth or fifth warp and scoops, as I started sniping his little guys with siege-gang before moving in for the kill.
Mythic: he sides in like two counterspells or something. Game went stupid well: turn 1 birds, turn 2 cobra, land, cobra, turn 3: sac land (don't pop) predator, turn 4 land, pop, warp, he scoops.
Match 4: Eldrazimorph. These were pretty fast matches. I beat his face in game 1 with Nest Invader and cobra beats. (lol?),
game 2 he got off a turn 5 emrakul, GG.
Game 3: He couldn't find white mana and I came down even harder with the fast beats.
Match 5: Semifinals, at this point, Nayallies again. Egh... no warps, and long games. I can stall that deck to kingdom come. Siege-gang would have been a hero if I hadn't been so tired at that point...killed evangels and stuff instead. Kazandu blademaster is my bane.
I'm looking at running a Magmaw or two alongside my siege-gangs. They can convert my spawn tokens into pings of death, and thats really needed. Other than that, I'm SERIOUSLY considering sea gate oracle to help dig for those game-ending warps, the ability to at least jump in front of incoming busses and occasionally survive is better than mana fixing, IMHO. but the colors are a real turn-off.
(On a somewhat related note I live in an apartment with very thin walls and the internet meme "Surprise buttsecks!!" isn't just on the internet anymore. Man that girl sounded pissed off.)
Currently playing Standard
:symr::symu::symg::symw:Mid-range:symr::symu::symg::symw: Modern
:symu::symb::symw::symr:AdNauseam:symu::symb::symw::symr:
Instead of Elvish Visionary, might I recommend that you consider Prophetic Prism? It's another common, and it'll solve both your problems in one go. It's a two-drop that simultaneously draws, fixes, and doesn't stretch your color base.
You know, I don't know how I completely overlooked that, especially with it having been mentioned in the thread. I'll proxy some up and test some more tomorrow.
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Currently playing: Standard UBRG - Specter of Change // BR - Shad Nauseum // UBR - Cruel Control // UBRG - $10 Warp World
This is in response to the request for a list. This is what I ran at FNM. I threw it together friday morning after reading this thread thursday.
Things I'd change: Emrakul comes out. Kozelik goes to the side--mill insurance at least, and I'd probably side 'm in against control. Him or Ulamog. SERIOUSLY considering maindecking the acidic slimes. They're rawr when I warp. But I think sea gate oracle is probably the way to go. Like I said before: magmaw is a possibility.
A word on the sideboard: Mind control is for Nayallies and Mythic, ruinblaster got sided in against polymorph combo cause I just needed to come at him as fast as possible, as did stag in case I came against control. Gladehart is pretty much always >RDW. Summoning trap was for hardcore control, with hopes of landing an eldrazi titan/mnemonic wall trap combo off something like a cobra eating an essence scatter.
EDIT: Oh yeah. Obviously if I had them I'd run misty rainforest and scalding tarns over the sac lands I have now. But not 4 and 4. Maybe 2 and 2. The Expanses/Evolving wilds are just too versatile and I don't mind a little tempo loss.
Im assuming thats 4 birds of paradise there dereku, considering your list is 3 cards short, and if so i completely agree with your build, and your changes in the comments below it. This deck is more of a combo deck and while i like that they could refill your deck, the are probably better off in the sideboard.
Edit: They is ammusing to the big fatties, kozi and emrakul.
So i used to have ob nixilis warp world together. however found that the problem with it was that it had now real way to deal with early game beaters. so. i have remade warp with an early game effectivness to stall until you can warp. deck looks as follows.
I tested this agasint boss naya. The game went for more then 1 hour. with my life total being more then 200. however by the end of the game my opponent had 3 25/25 knight to the reliquarys and had used o ring on 3 of my guys. the game if in a tournament would of gone to time on game 1. however we had played it out and he won with a life total of 600+ was quite an interesting game. think i may put a 1 of felidar soverign in the board just in case this happens again. but i really like the deck. with all the walls it negates any creature with 3 power and wall of reverence stops baneslayer. any thought of suggestions?
With the walls and awakening zone i can make more then enough mana to use spawnsire's 20mana ability.
Thoughts on multiwarp variant:
What about guard gomazoa in the side? The two decks I'm most afraid of are mythic and nayallies, neither of which run removal to speak of. Three/Four of those combined with awakening zone should buy us enough time to find a warp and go cah-razy on them.
only reason trace ins't in this deck and explore is, because of the card draw. yes explore is anti synergy off a warp but having 11 card draw spells in a G/W/R deck makes all the difference.
I'm looking at running a Magmaw or two alongside my siege-gangs. They can convert my spawn tokens into pings of death, and thats really needed.
What about Deathbringer Thoctar? He seems to be in pretty much every way better. You can sac all of your tokens for mana if you want, he gets HUGE and you can swing with him, and then you can double up and shoot his tokens at the other player or at creatures.
Has anyone taken a look at Vicious Shadows as a possible win-con? With the new spawn tokens, it seems pretty likely that you'll be able to warp into a very good amount of them, and if you land one or 2 of these your tokens become pretty lethal. Granted, if their hand is empty that could be a problem, but it seems to be a VERY strong card vs. control.
The eldrazi spawn seem like they could have a pretty big impact on Warp World, with the huge increase in permanent count, ramp ability, and sac ability.
Man I really like the thoctar, but he's totally not in my colors
With the wilds/expanses i've got it wouldn't be HARD to splash him, but egh... Four colors, even if you never really intend to hard cast two of those, right? I feel like it's still BAD and I wanna pwn some FNM with this baby.
Man I really like the thoctar, but he's totally not in my colors
With the wilds/expanses i've got it wouldn't be HARD to splash him, but egh... Four colors, even if you never really intend to hard cast two of those, right? I feel like it's still BAD and I wanna pwn some FNM with this baby.
Between Birds of Paradise, Trace of Abundance, Ondu Giant, Prophetic Prism, Harabaz Druid (if you run them, I like it, taps for any color and possible to get 4 mana out of 2 of them on the field), Lotus Cobra, sac lands, dual lands, etc., it shouldn't be too difficult to run them with even just a single swamp. I think he's pretty solid.
Black also opens up Lavalanch, which seems like a BOMB against aggro and such, and to cast the turn before WW. I wouldn't necessarily run anything with BB in the cost, but a single black should be easy to get to.
i used to run lavalanche however cried a little on th inside when i got it off a bloodbraid elf or off a warp word.
Yeah, I don't run BBE, I don't want to cascade past a WW or something else. My understanding is that the BBE is primarily used to create 2 permanents with 1 spell, and to cascade into ramp. In my mind, the new creature+spawn dudes in red and green do that at least as effectively, are way better WW hits, and allows me to run some stuff that I couldn't have with cascade.
Yeah, it is still a dead card off of WW, but in some MUs (WW, Allies, etc.) it seems like it could really turn a game around, and better than something like pyroclasm or something, as I don't really care for nuking my own tokens.
Im assuming thats 4 birds of paradise there dereku, considering your list is 3 cards short, and if so i completely agree with your build, and your changes in the comments below it. This deck is more of a combo deck and while i like that they could refill your deck, the are probably better off in the sideboard.
Edit: They is ammusing to the big fatties, kozi and emrakul.
(On a somewhat related note I live in an apartment with very thin walls and the internet meme "Surprise buttsecks!!" isn't just on the internet anymore. Man that girl sounded pissed off.)
Currently playing Standard
:symr::symu::symg::symw:Mid-range:symr::symu::symg::symw: Modern
:symu::symb::symw::symr:AdNauseam:symu::symb::symw::symr:
Between Birds of Paradise, Trace of Abundance, Ondu Giant, Prophetic Prism, Harabaz Druid (if you run them, I like it, taps for any color and possible to get 4 mana out of 2 of them on the field), Lotus Cobra, sac lands, dual lands, etc., it shouldn't be too difficult to run them with even just a single swamp. I think he's pretty solid.
Black also opens up Lavalanch, which seems like a BOMB against aggro and such, and to cast the turn before WW. I wouldn't necessarily run anything with BB in the cost, but a single black should be easy to get to.
I think prophetic prism is a bad idea. You should just run enough red to have when you need to warp. I'm gonna go ahead and say that elvish visionary is better almost 100% of the time, cause it can block in an emergency, and that sea gate oracle is almost always better, except that it's in blue. I don't run the harabaz because I'd rather have permanent increases with most of my drops (thus the nest invaders, and kozilek's predators). And honestly Lotus cobra and Birds are PROBABLY going to eat removal. I can try and proxy some up, but I think magmaw is probably enough.
On the other side of it: Every time siege gang nukes something, the deathbringer thoctar gets bigger...gawd. What to cut. Is it possible he's better than bogardan hellkite in conjunction with a spawn gameplan?
I think prophetic prism is a bad idea. You should just run enough red to have when you need to warp. I'm gonna go ahead and say that elvish visionary is better almost 100% of the time, cause it can block in an emergency, and that sea gate oracle is almost always better, except that it's in blue. I don't run the harabaz because I'd rather have permanent increases with most of my drops (thus the nest invaders, and kozilek's predators). And honestly Lotus cobra and Birds are PROBABLY going to eat removal. I can try and proxy some up, but I think magmaw is probably enough.
On the other side of it: Every time siege gang nukes something, the deathbringer thoctar gets bigger...gawd. What to cut. Is it possible he's better than bogardan hellkite in conjunction with a spawn gameplan?
Well, I will be using Overgrown Battlement in my list I think (gonna try it out for this friday), so that provides for a very solid body early game to block with, as well as Ondu Giant. I think that the prism will be a solid card in a 3 or 4 color variant -- basically it lets me feel better about running the wall for mana over Birds of Paradise as it will let me fix the mono-G coming out of the wall. It also allows my tokens to sac for any color, which it seems like it could prove handy from time to time.
The thoctar seems to me that he would almost always be better than the hellkite, provided that you run with enough spawn producers. Sure, off of a warp if you hit 2 hellkites and they don't get a flying blocker, that's 10 from CiP + swing for 10 next turn, but if you get 2x Thoctars + even just 5 tokens, that's +5 to both of them. 10 tokens and it's GG. He also costs 2 less to cast, which isn't trivial, and allows you to pick off opposing creatures in an aggro deck that much quicker. Hardcasting the thoctar on like T4 or so provides for a VERY powerful removal tool to keep you alive for a while, and to make for some very favorable WW. Yeah, I know that it takes some of your permanents to be sacrificed, but if it comes down to, say, you WW for 20 and them for 10, that is 2:1. If you take yourself down to 15 to get them down to even 6, that is 2.5:1, and whenever you kill one of their creatures he gets a token too.
And like you said, nuke something with SGC, if it kills the other creature you get 2 counters on the thoctar. Smexy.
Crap. Sold me on the thoctar. Now I gotta find two.
EDIT:
I think the battlement + prism isn't as good as the birds btw.
For me: i'm running trace, nest invader, and lotus cobra as two drops. All turn 2 ramp. I'm gonna hit 2 and want to be dropping whatever quality ramp I have (usually a trace, maybe a cobra) and not look back--onward to BBEs and siege-gangs.
And I cannot stress enough that with that kind of game plan, we can play fast aggro against control pretty effectively, one thing a wall defender will NEVER be able to do.
Ondu giant, nest invader, trace of abundance, lotus cobra, birds of paradise, kozilek's predator. Thats up to 24 spells that can ramp us mana. I don't count the predator as such bringing it down to 20, cause by then I don't use the tokens for ramping--but thats more ramp than valakut decks run. Something more aggressive should be run in that slot...really anything up to a six drop, I think.
Now that I look at it, Magmaw + Deathbringer Thoctar is actually pretty hot too, considering you can sac stuff to Magmaw first, and that'll put the tokens onto the thoctar just as well as just saccing them for the mana anyway. That way you can even sac visionaries and birds and cobras and nest invaders and everything else.
I don't know, maybe some kind of combination of the 2, maybe 2+2 or 1 magmaw + 2 thoctar, since the thoctar is a lot better by himself, with no activation costs and the ability to grow and everything else.
And yeah, I was thinking about the defensive ability of the wall, but I think I'll have enough with everything else to hold out for long enough. I'll publish my tentative list soon.
Now, this may have been suggested already, and I am a complete Warp World noob...
But it seems to me that Emrakul's Hatcher should be crazy awesome in this deck. Four permanents for the price of one?
Same goes with the other spawn creatures...
Now, this may have been suggested already, and I am a complete Warp World noob...
But it seems to me that Emrakul's Hatcher should be crazy awesome in this deck. Four permanents for the price of one?
Same goes with the other spawn creatures...
Anyone?
The place he would have is currently held by SGC. and for good reason the spawn tokens can not be used to take down other creatures.
As for the Deathbringer Magmaw + Deathbringer ThoctarI dont think that it is needed unless you run the full spawn token makers including the hatcher+ nest invader+ Predator and the awaking zone..and maybe a SGC.
(On a somewhat related note I live in an apartment with very thin walls and the internet meme "Surprise buttsecks!!" isn't just on the internet anymore. Man that girl sounded pissed off.)
Currently playing Standard
:symr::symu::symg::symw:Mid-range:symr::symu::symg::symw: Modern
:symu::symb::symw::symr:AdNauseam:symu::symb::symw::symr:
How has the Deathbringer Thoctar been for everyone who's included them in their decklists? It's an interesting idea and since there's a plethora of eldrazi token generators in this set, I can see how it's appealing.
However, since removal has been a main focus in this meta it appears to be a lackluster investment for 6 mana.
Usually, in my WW decks, I tend to drift toward creatures that have a CIPT ability such as broodmate dragons, Avenger of Zendikar, and Siege-gang commander(to give multiple threats and most importantly, more permies).
Bogardan hellkite is quite expensive in cost but it has many benefits such as getting rid of threats, direct damage, and the flash ability comes in handy in certain situations.
What I'm trying to get at is it looks like it has good interaction with the new cards from RoE but from a practical standpoint, it's lacking. However, I would love to hear from people who have actually tested it in their WW since I'm just speculating after reading the deathbringer's ability for the first time.
I think that deathbringer/magmaw should be approached like this: Additional SGCs. How many SGCs do you want to run? 6? 8? Add magmaw/deathbringer to bring it up to that number. The BIGGEST thing we're lacking is removal.
Instead of Elvish Visionary, might I recommend that you consider Prophetic Prism? It's another common, and it'll solve both your problems in one go. It's a two-drop that simultaneously draws, fixes, and doesn't stretch your color base.
you are unable to devour off of a warp, Devour says as it comes in to play you can sac any number of creatures. As Skullmuncher is entering play there are no creatures in play to sac.
Currently playing
Standard
:symr::symu::symg::symw:Mid-range:symr::symu::symg::symw:
Modern
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HOWEVER. Nest invader is a hero. I won as many games on the back of vicious beats with 2/2s and 2/1 (go go cobra swing!) as I did multiwarping my opponent into a scoop.
My night went like this:
Match 1: nayallies (egh) I stalled the first game for half an hour and couldn't draw into a warp. Would have been dead in no time if it weren't for awakening zone. Ended up losing these matches. Booo. Awakening zone, however, came out at a winner.
Match 2: RDW, black splash. Game 1, he can't keep up with my 2/2 beatsticks and has to spend too much burn staying a live. Ondu giant wards off would be attackers.
Game 2: dead in the water, stalled out on three land.
Game 3: get a (sided in) gladehart to stick after baiting out some removal with my birds and cobra. Win on a warp that leaves him with a ball lightning and an arid mesa only...bye bye ball lightning. Swing for lethal damage next turn.
Match 3: Mythic.
Game 1: have a pretty good hand, so I keep that sucker. He ramps out a turn 3 baneslayer--whatever. Swings at me for 7, then next turn hits me again for 7. I top deck a warp world, and go off on him, getting out my pen and paper so I can track my ever-increasing mana. He gets frustrated after my fourth or fifth warp and scoops, as I started sniping his little guys with siege-gang before moving in for the kill.
Mythic: he sides in like two counterspells or something. Game went stupid well: turn 1 birds, turn 2 cobra, land, cobra, turn 3: sac land (don't pop) predator, turn 4 land, pop, warp, he scoops.
Match 4: Eldrazimorph. These were pretty fast matches. I beat his face in game 1 with Nest Invader and cobra beats. (lol?),
game 2 he got off a turn 5 emrakul, GG.
Game 3: He couldn't find white mana and I came down even harder with the fast beats.
Match 5: Semifinals, at this point, Nayallies again. Egh... no warps, and long games. I can stall that deck to kingdom come. Siege-gang would have been a hero if I hadn't been so tired at that point...killed evangels and stuff instead. Kazandu blademaster is my bane.
I'm looking at running a Magmaw or two alongside my siege-gangs. They can convert my spawn tokens into pings of death, and thats really needed. Other than that, I'm SERIOUSLY considering sea gate oracle to help dig for those game-ending warps, the ability to at least jump in front of incoming busses and occasionally survive is better than mana fixing, IMHO. but the colors are a real turn-off.
GRValakut RampRG
Do you have a list we could see?
Currently playing
Standard
:symr::symu::symg::symw:Mid-range:symr::symu::symg::symw:
Modern
:symu::symb::symw::symr:AdNauseam:symu::symb::symw::symr:
You know, I don't know how I completely overlooked that, especially with it having been mentioned in the thread. I'll proxy some up and test some more tomorrow.
Standard
UBRG - Specter of Change // BR - Shad Nauseum // UBR - Cruel Control // UBRG - $10 Warp World
5x forest
1x arid mesa
1x verdant catacombs
3x terramorphic expanse
3x evolving wilds
8x mountain
1x island
Meat:
4x siege-gang commander
4x nest invader
3x kozilek's predator
1x awakening zone
4x bloodbraid elf
1x kozilek, butcher of truth
1x emrakul, the aeons torn
4x ondu giant
4x lotus cobra
4x trace of abundance
1x Bogardan Hellkite
4x warp world
3x mnemonic wall
3x acidic slime
2x mind control
3x goblin ruinblaster
3x grazing gladehart
2x great sable stag
2x summoning trap
This is in response to the request for a list. This is what I ran at FNM. I threw it together friday morning after reading this thread thursday.
Things I'd change: Emrakul comes out. Kozelik goes to the side--mill insurance at least, and I'd probably side 'm in against control. Him or Ulamog. SERIOUSLY considering maindecking the acidic slimes. They're rawr when I warp. But I think sea gate oracle is probably the way to go. Like I said before: magmaw is a possibility.
A word on the sideboard: Mind control is for Nayallies and Mythic, ruinblaster got sided in against polymorph combo cause I just needed to come at him as fast as possible, as did stag in case I came against control. Gladehart is pretty much always >RDW. Summoning trap was for hardcore control, with hopes of landing an eldrazi titan/mnemonic wall trap combo off something like a cobra eating an essence scatter.
EDIT: Oh yeah. Obviously if I had them I'd run misty rainforest and scalding tarns over the sac lands I have now. But not 4 and 4. Maybe 2 and 2. The Expanses/Evolving wilds are just too versatile and I don't mind a little tempo loss.
GRValakut RampRG
Edit: They is ammusing to the big fatties, kozi and emrakul.
My decks
Top 4 (4th) SCG IQ 11/4/12
4 wall of omens
4 overgrown battlement
3 wall of reverence
4 bloodbraid elf
1 iona, shield of emeria
1 kozilek, butcher of truth
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
1 ulamog, the infinite gyre
1 Spawnsire of Ulamog
4 explore
4 warp world
Enchantments
4 awakening zone
3 oblivion ring
Artifacts
3 prophetic prism
Land
1 mountain
4 raging ravine
4 rootbound craig
4 sunpetal grove
6 forests
4 plains
I tested this agasint boss naya. The game went for more then 1 hour. with my life total being more then 200. however by the end of the game my opponent had 3 25/25 knight to the reliquarys and had used o ring on 3 of my guys. the game if in a tournament would of gone to time on game 1. however we had played it out and he won with a life total of 600+ was quite an interesting game. think i may put a 1 of felidar soverign in the board just in case this happens again. but i really like the deck. with all the walls it negates any creature with 3 power and wall of reverence stops baneslayer. any thought of suggestions?
With the walls and awakening zone i can make more then enough mana to use spawnsire's 20mana ability.
Thoughts on multiwarp variant:
What about guard gomazoa in the side? The two decks I'm most afraid of are mythic and nayallies, neither of which run removal to speak of. Three/Four of those combined with awakening zone should buy us enough time to find a warp and go cah-razy on them.
GRValakut RampRG
only reason trace ins't in this deck and explore is, because of the card draw. yes explore is anti synergy off a warp but having 11 card draw spells in a G/W/R deck makes all the difference.
What about Deathbringer Thoctar? He seems to be in pretty much every way better. You can sac all of your tokens for mana if you want, he gets HUGE and you can swing with him, and then you can double up and shoot his tokens at the other player or at creatures.
Has anyone taken a look at Vicious Shadows as a possible win-con? With the new spawn tokens, it seems pretty likely that you'll be able to warp into a very good amount of them, and if you land one or 2 of these your tokens become pretty lethal. Granted, if their hand is empty that could be a problem, but it seems to be a VERY strong card vs. control.
The eldrazi spawn seem like they could have a pretty big impact on Warp World, with the huge increase in permanent count, ramp ability, and sac ability.
With the wilds/expanses i've got it wouldn't be HARD to splash him, but egh... Four colors, even if you never really intend to hard cast two of those, right? I feel like it's still BAD and I wanna pwn some FNM with this baby.
GRValakut RampRG
Between Birds of Paradise, Trace of Abundance, Ondu Giant, Prophetic Prism, Harabaz Druid (if you run them, I like it, taps for any color and possible to get 4 mana out of 2 of them on the field), Lotus Cobra, sac lands, dual lands, etc., it shouldn't be too difficult to run them with even just a single swamp. I think he's pretty solid.
Black also opens up Lavalanch, which seems like a BOMB against aggro and such, and to cast the turn before WW. I wouldn't necessarily run anything with BB in the cost, but a single black should be easy to get to.
Yeah, I don't run BBE, I don't want to cascade past a WW or something else. My understanding is that the BBE is primarily used to create 2 permanents with 1 spell, and to cascade into ramp. In my mind, the new creature+spawn dudes in red and green do that at least as effectively, are way better WW hits, and allows me to run some stuff that I couldn't have with cascade.
Yeah, it is still a dead card off of WW, but in some MUs (WW, Allies, etc.) it seems like it could really turn a game around, and better than something like pyroclasm or something, as I don't really care for nuking my own tokens.
Have you tryed my build? I do indeed run 4 Bop
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I think prophetic prism is a bad idea. You should just run enough red to have when you need to warp. I'm gonna go ahead and say that elvish visionary is better almost 100% of the time, cause it can block in an emergency, and that sea gate oracle is almost always better, except that it's in blue. I don't run the harabaz because I'd rather have permanent increases with most of my drops (thus the nest invaders, and kozilek's predators). And honestly Lotus cobra and Birds are PROBABLY going to eat removal. I can try and proxy some up, but I think magmaw is probably enough.
On the other side of it: Every time siege gang nukes something, the deathbringer thoctar gets bigger...gawd. What to cut. Is it possible he's better than bogardan hellkite in conjunction with a spawn gameplan?
GRValakut RampRG
Well, I will be using Overgrown Battlement in my list I think (gonna try it out for this friday), so that provides for a very solid body early game to block with, as well as Ondu Giant. I think that the prism will be a solid card in a 3 or 4 color variant -- basically it lets me feel better about running the wall for mana over Birds of Paradise as it will let me fix the mono-G coming out of the wall. It also allows my tokens to sac for any color, which it seems like it could prove handy from time to time.
The thoctar seems to me that he would almost always be better than the hellkite, provided that you run with enough spawn producers. Sure, off of a warp if you hit 2 hellkites and they don't get a flying blocker, that's 10 from CiP + swing for 10 next turn, but if you get 2x Thoctars + even just 5 tokens, that's +5 to both of them. 10 tokens and it's GG. He also costs 2 less to cast, which isn't trivial, and allows you to pick off opposing creatures in an aggro deck that much quicker. Hardcasting the thoctar on like T4 or so provides for a VERY powerful removal tool to keep you alive for a while, and to make for some very favorable WW. Yeah, I know that it takes some of your permanents to be sacrificed, but if it comes down to, say, you WW for 20 and them for 10, that is 2:1. If you take yourself down to 15 to get them down to even 6, that is 2.5:1, and whenever you kill one of their creatures he gets a token too.
And like you said, nuke something with SGC, if it kills the other creature you get 2 counters on the thoctar. Smexy.
EDIT:
I think the battlement + prism isn't as good as the birds btw.
For me: i'm running trace, nest invader, and lotus cobra as two drops. All turn 2 ramp. I'm gonna hit 2 and want to be dropping whatever quality ramp I have (usually a trace, maybe a cobra) and not look back--onward to BBEs and siege-gangs.
And I cannot stress enough that with that kind of game plan, we can play fast aggro against control pretty effectively, one thing a
walldefender will NEVER be able to do.Ondu giant, nest invader, trace of abundance, lotus cobra, birds of paradise, kozilek's predator. Thats up to 24 spells that can ramp us mana. I don't count the predator as such bringing it down to 20, cause by then I don't use the tokens for ramping--but thats more ramp than valakut decks run. Something more aggressive should be run in that slot...really anything up to a six drop, I think.
GRValakut RampRG
I don't know, maybe some kind of combination of the 2, maybe 2+2 or 1 magmaw + 2 thoctar, since the thoctar is a lot better by himself, with no activation costs and the ability to grow and everything else.
And yeah, I was thinking about the defensive ability of the wall, but I think I'll have enough with everything else to hold out for long enough. I'll publish my tentative list soon.
But it seems to me that Emrakul's Hatcher should be crazy awesome in this deck. Four permanents for the price of one?
Same goes with the other spawn creatures...
Anyone?
As for the Deathbringer Magmaw + Deathbringer ThoctarI dont think that it is needed unless you run the full spawn token makers including the hatcher+ nest invader+ Predator and the awaking zone..and maybe a SGC.
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However, since removal has been a main focus in this meta it appears to be a lackluster investment for 6 mana.
Usually, in my WW decks, I tend to drift toward creatures that have a CIPT ability such as broodmate dragons, Avenger of Zendikar, and Siege-gang commander(to give multiple threats and most importantly, more permies).
Bogardan hellkite is quite expensive in cost but it has many benefits such as getting rid of threats, direct damage, and the flash ability comes in handy in certain situations.
What I'm trying to get at is it looks like it has good interaction with the new cards from RoE but from a practical standpoint, it's lacking. However, I would love to hear from people who have actually tested it in their WW since I'm just speculating after reading the deathbringer's ability for the first time.
GRValakut RampRG