Vid 1 is in portugese (brazillian?). Standard Mono-U with Essence captures
Game 1 - U vs UR - A Natural Obsession Stomp vs 2 land
Game 2 - U vs URW - A Natural Obsession Stomp - early concession
Vid 2 is same deck
Game 1 - vs UR - Obsession Stomp - t3 Concession
Game 2 - vs U - Counterspell THEIR obsession (turn 4), Djinn Beatdown after counterwars
first 4 he plays first
Game 3 - vs RW - Creature Battle. Some interaction, not with the plays I would make, he gets a Djinn and some little guys, puts an Obsession on and wins a closer one.
Vid 3
Game 1 - vs RW - Turn 2 Trickster, Why doesn't he play the obsession on turn 3? - Turn 4 Concession
Game 2 - vs W - Early Creatures, Essence capture good. Djinn gets a Conclave. Poor Trickster play, should have killed an Adanto Vanguard. Ordinary play leads to a loss he should have won.
Game 3 - GB - On Draw - Huh? Why didn't he Essence capture the first enemy creature? Instead he plays a Trickster, and then attacks without the casting Obsession. (multiple DD in hand.Draws and plays a Pter, puts an Obsession on it. Why no block and kill the 3/2 with his 2/2 trickster? Why does he not cast the OPT with spare mana? Rides the Pter with obsession to Victory.
Not great play, but does demonstrate how the deck abuses Obsession. Every game he gets one.
I think he goes first 6 games in 8.
Single games, no sideboard
Interesting, but, well, this guy seems to be a bit of a beginner.
Vid 1 is in portugese (brazillian?). Standard Mono-U with Essence captures
Game 1 - U vs UR - A Natural Obsession Stomp vs 2 land
Game 2 - U vs URW - A Natural Obsession Stomp - early concession
Vid 2 is same deck
Game 1 - vs UR - Obsession Stomp - t3 Concession
Game 2 - vs U - Counterspell THEIR obsession (turn 4), Djinn Beatdown after counterwars
first 4 he plays first
Game 3 - vs RW - Creature Battle. Some interaction, not with the plays I would make, he gets a Djinn and some little guys, puts an Obsession on and wins a closer one.
Vid 3
Game 1 - vs RW - Turn 2 Trickster, Why doesn't he play the obsession on turn 3? - Turn 4 Concession
Game 2 - vs W - Early Creatures, Essence capture good. Djinn gets a Conclave. Poor Trickster play, should have killed an Adanto Vanguard. Ordinary play leads to a loss he should have won.
Game 3 - GB - On Draw - Huh? Why didn't he Essence capture the first enemy creature? Instead he plays a Trickster, and then attacks without the casting Obsession. (multiple DD in hand.Draws and plays a Pter, puts an Obsession on it. Why no block and kill the 3/2 with his 2/2 trickster? Why does he not cast the OPT with spare mana? Rides the Pter with obsession to Victory.
Not great play, but does demonstrate how the deck abuses Obsession. Every game he gets one.
I think he goes first 6 games in 8.
Single games, no sideboard
Interesting, but, well, this guy seems to be a bit of a beginner.
I posted it because I thought it might be interesting for some people to once see some Pteramander, Essence Capture and Quench in play.
Hey kpal, on the last page or two I convinced someone that adding a second coloUr is just a bad idea.
REDtwister really wanted to add White for a few cards, but the deck is all about blUe.
Red got White and Blue mixed up.
.
Just like in your trailing message.
blUe, White, Red isn't right. . .
White, blUe, Red is what you should have - Ah, Flags, what fun.
.
***********
TruthBomb,
Opt should be in the main, or gone. But really it should be in the main if you want Pter to work.
Pter wants more spells.
4xSphinx of foresight is tooo many. 3 at max, maybe 2. I do really like the card.
4xSurge mare main is tooo many, 2 seems OK. Put the other two in the board
4xArrester’s admonition just doesn't seem right, at all
4xEssence capture Is very keen, I reckon 2-3 is pushing it.
SB
Wizard’s Retort is better, and it needs the wizards, so, the tricksters need to be there. Tricksters have also been really good.
4xScrabbling claws just doesn't seem terribly useful, Syncopate might be better at what you are trying to do.
I would like a 4th Negate.
*************.
Played it a bit more. Sphinx in opening is AWESOME.
Drawing him on turn 1 or 2 just blows.
Not getting to 4 mana, or being too scared to actually play him is also a bad idea.
Sometimes the deck changes when playing 3 of him. It can become a serious beatdown machine.
turn 1 1/1
turn 2 2/2
turn 3 3+/4
turn 4 4/4
Suddenly it is about real flying thump, not just dodge, deny and weave.
@kpal This deck will only splash if there are two sets of dual lands with basic land types. We all know that that's not the case.
@truth_bomb It seems like you're pre-sideboarding for White Weemie variants. Such a skewed list will certainly perform worse in an open field. To balance it out, try cutting a Sphinx or two, a couple of Mares, some Essence Captures, and all Arrester's Admonitions, then add 4 Merfolk Tricksters, 4 Opts (if you choose Pteramander over Mist-Cloaked Herald) and 4 Wizard's Retort. You can also try Lookout Dispersal if you want to go with 4 Hellkite Marauders, though Wizard's Retort + 4 Merfolk Tricksters work much better imo.
Arrester's Admonition doesn't quite work because you rarely want to main-phase a bounce spell. Yes, you get to draw a card, but considering that this deck is often constrained on mana and time, that card won't do you much good.
OTOH, Exclusion Mage works because it has a body and that helps you pressure your opponent.Plus, it makes Wizard's Retort more consistent.
If you really want a cantrip bounce, play 4x Merfolk Tricksters and 4x Mist-Cloaked Heralds and go for Crashing Tide instead.
This deck will not splash, no matter how many duals with basic land types there are, Djinn works only with basic Islands.
lol Thanks for the reminder. Sometimes we stop reading the cards because we think we know them by heart. Apparently that is never the right way to do it.
I was thinking about a bicolor version without Djinn this morning, because the more i play the deck, the more i feel that it has a very strong core plus a dozen of cards that are less powerfull/too much situational (all our 2 drops, simply put), and Djinn prevents any improvement by beeing so strong by himself (and reducing dramatically our options)
Just FYI, the Mesmerizing Benthid was supposed to be a Crafty Cutpurse, due to the high amount of Selesnya/Hero of Precinct One decks running around in my local meta. I hadn't bought one, so a friend lent me it for the spice.
Round One - 4 Color Gates
I won round one off of a timely Merfolk Trickster tapping down a Gatebreaker Ram, and him not drawing anything but lands. He won game two after I misplayed, forgetting to sacrifice Siren Stormtamer to protect a [Tempest Djinn] from a Crushing Canopy. He then topddecked a Niv Mizzet, Parun and killed my Pteramander with a Gate Colossus out, after which I promptly conceded. Game three was close, and I had him to 4 life with a 7/4 Tempest Djinn. He had a Guild Summit, and after going Circuitous Route x2 and Growth Spiral he drew a Archway Angel, gaining 16 life. I then started beating down, but eventually he got a Gate Colossus. Luckily, I had Deep Freeze, but he drew Gates Ablaze. He then played a gate, and setting Gate Colossus back on his library and drawing it with the Guild Summit trigger, cast it again. I drew a Wizard's Retort, and that being the only card in my hand with 4 life, conceded.
Notes: Gates seems like a tough matchup. Spell Pierce is bad, unless countering a Guild Summit or Circuitous Route, as they never cast Gates Ablaze without at least 3 gates, and normally some other lands. Overall, the games were close, and could have gone either way. Jace, Cunning Castaway seems like it could be a very good sideboard card. I saw two or three gates decks running around in a pool of 25 or so, and Jace seems good against control too.
Round Two - Esper Hero
this matchup was unexciting. He couldnt draw gas. that was basically it, i won in two games. He was also playing a bit off meta, with Divine Visitation. Not much to say here, unfortunately. maybe next week.
Round 3 - Mono Red Rakdos
Chainwhirler, ouch.
Game one I won, due to him not hitting a Chainwhirler. I sided in Surge Mare and it was litteral Jesus. He couldnt beat it. Game two he won, but because of a Chainwhirler + Lava coil with 4 Runaway Steam-Kin. Game 3 he mulled to 5, and kept, while I kept a one lander with Sphinx of Foresight. I cannot, CANNOT, overstate how good this card is. I frequently side out one for games two and three against Red, but in every matchup, this card works miracles. It even has a great body. I managed to set up a perfect draw, and put a Curious Obsession on Surge Mare. Nice Lava Coil bud. I won of of that, and managed to make it to 2-1.
Notes: Red seems favorable. With Surge mare, it seems heavily favored in games 2 and 3, and slightly favored in game one due to many decks not playing Rekindling Phoenix in the mainboard. Tempest Djinn laughs at Lightning Strike and Shock all the way to two for one value town. Fun times.
Round 4- Golgari Krasis
Oh boy.
This matchup is my worst by far. Carnage Tyrant is not a fair magic card. He won game one off of a massive punish as I played two Pteramander into the second half of Find // Finality. He had a Tyrant left over, and i lost the game.
Overall, Mono Blue felt very strong, and competitive. Another player piloted the deck, and went 4-0, also beating the same Golgari Krasis player that I faced in round 4. I do, however, feel the sideboard was a bit clunky, and was wondering about yalls opinions on Jace.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
How is Carnage Tyrant unfair, at least in the context of creature power creep that has Marked MTG for almost 10 years now? Grave Titan and Primeval Titan are unfair. Hydroid Krasis might be unfair. Arguably, the power of "on cast" triggers in general are unfair (albeit not as bad as Phyrexian Mana, Planeswalker Emblems, Storm and Dredge), though I would much rather have Eldrazi effects be "on cast" instead of "ETB", since ETBs would be extremely repeatable and broken. Creatures that have built-in combo-finish potential are broken (Griselbrand, Emrakul, the aforementioned PrimeTime, etc.) It won't see play in Modern or Legacy and it has no viable combo finish associated with it.
I mean, "hexproof, cannot be countered" is exceedingly obnoxious, but it is 4GG. It's a relatively efficient Timmy card, but Sleep, Edict effects, and Wrath effects all deal with it. We have one of those effects. Also, I can successfully trade with Djinn, and if I want to take no damage, I'll use Dive Down. It's an annoyingly resilient beater and nothing else.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
I've been thinking about how to best turn this into Dimir Tempo and whether it's worth it. Here are some thoughts;
- Kitesail Freebooter is a welcome addition. It disrupts the opponent's gameplan, provides card advantage, and can pick up Curious Obsession. It also ups the pirate count and allows us to switch over from Wizard's Retort to Lookout Dispersal without worries.
- Thief of Hope is also a welcome addition, essentially a flyer with built-in Curious Obsession. It costs 3 mana though, and therefore is a bit clunky considering that for this deck that cmc should be for beaters like Tempest Djinn or Spawn of Mayhem. It's also possible that we just move away from heavy-hitters in 3-cc and just peck the opponent to death; in that case having 4 Thief of Hope would be fine.
- Speaking of Spawn of Mayhem, I'm not sure how much this card adds to the deck. If it comes down on turn 3, it certainly hits harder than Djinn, but if it comes down late then Djinn generally hits harder. Since when did we run out a Djinn on turn 3 without protection though? Also, to get double black on turn 3, you need a lot of Swamps, and that has an unfortunate side effect of giving you two Swamps in your opening hand. My inclination is that if someone is going Dimir, they should just ditch Spawn of Mayhem and instead max out on Spinx and Thief of Hope.
- With black, Drill Bit may become a viable sideboard option. Spectacle is relatively easy to turn on and it hits all non-land cards.
I've not tried the deck though; these are just thoughts based on the experience I've had with straight-up mono blue. Will try it out when I have a chance and will report back to the thread.
How is Carnage Tyrant unfair, at least in the context of creature power creep that has Marked MTG for almost 10 years now? Grave Titan and Primeval Titan are unfair. Hydroid Krasis might be unfair. Arguably, the power of "on cast" triggers in general are unfair (albeit not as bad as Phyrexian Mana, Planeswalker Emblems, Storm and Dredge), though I would much rather have Eldrazi effects be "on cast" instead of "ETB", since ETBs would be extremely repeatable and broken. Creatures that have built-in combo-finish potential are broken (Griselbrand, Emrakul, the aforementioned PrimeTime, etc.) It won't see play in Modern or Legacy and it has no viable combo finish associated with it.
I mean, "hexproof, cannot be countered" is exceedingly obnoxious, but it is 4GG. It's a relatively efficient Timmy card, but Sleep, Edict effects, and Wrath effects all deal with it. We have one of those effects. Also, I can successfully trade with Djinn, and if I want to take no damage, I'll use Dive Down. It's an annoyingly resilient beater and nothing else.
Alrighty then, lets go there.
Prime Titan is a mythic rare, which considering the power creep over the last 10 years is a really good indicator that it is not a 'Fair' card. It is the backbone of a modern deck. Fair cards do not get played in Modern. By definition, if you ARE playing fair cards, Why? This is MODERN.
Yup, Grave titans are a mythic rare too.
I played Grave Titans at the nationals, because they were the most unfair possible creature for me to play.
They just win games if they stay on the board. The problem was getting them onto the board, and keeping them alive.
Two massively overpowered 6 cost creatures are your justification for why Carnage Tyrant is fair.
And the Tyrant breezes past the fundamental problems both have.
1) Counterspell Titan A/B
2) Point at Titan A/B, Kill it
That is how to deal with those two creatures, mostly.
Sure, if you point at them, them will leave some residue, but that's OK.
Now, Apply those two solutions to Angry Death Lizard, and they do not work.
If you are claiming the BEST two Titans are better/worse than the death Lizard, why are you comparing the strongest 6 drops in the last 10 years and trying to claim 'Fairness'?
Carnage Tyrant obliterates the basic concept of fairness in creatures.
I counterspell
I Burn it / Kill it / Steal it / Bounce it
. . .NOPE, Carnage Tyrant ignores your statement
"Storm and Dredge" are the definition of unfair.
As a mechanic, Storm has been sworn off by Wizards for being inherently 'Unfair'.
Both see play in VINTAGE !!!
'Griselbrand, Emrakul' - Yes, they are completely unfair, utterly, embarrassingly broken bits of cardboard that get used in Modern/Legacy
"It won't see play in Modern or Legacy and it has no viable combo finish associated with it."
I think I agree with this because it is a creature that is actually cast.
There are bigger creatures like 'Griselbrand, Emrakul' if you are going to cheat one into play, but that is like saying LLanowar is terrible because noone is going to Thru-The-Breach a LLelf.
In Standard right now, there is no way to cheat creatures into play effectively (I think), so Emrukal would suck in standard.
Right now, Carnage Tyrant is UNFAIR in Standard.
'Sleep, Edict effects, and Wrath effects all deal with it.'
They deal with Emrukal too, so why don't they work?
Well, Wrath wipes both sides of the board, Sleep to far too situational to be base deck (IMHO, and look at almost all lists for Mono-U), and last time I checked Edict effects do not exist in Blue and will only kill the Tyrant if he is alone.
All 3 of those effects also work on Titan A/B, and Titan A/B were already obviously busted cards. So What?
Well, Why is it that out of all of those cards, only one stands out as being Obscenely more powerful?
They all cost the same.
How come the 'Fair ' card has the same power as the Death Lizard, but none of it's 3 strong abilities?
Hydroid Crasis is hardly unfair.
It sure aint gunna see any Legacy/Modern play, and it can be counterspelled, and pointed at.
6 cost effects that gain life gain Heaps more
6 cost effects that draw cards gain Heaps more
6 cost creatures are way better
Crasis is an amalgam of everything, and not special at anything.
Sure, it is a reasonable card that might see some play in standard. Maybe.
Death Lizard is an obvious, format defining card.
Carange T is the obvious benchmark that all other green thumpers are compared to.
Standard Planeswalkers can't touch it (I think).
If your plan is to kill it with a Djinn, good luck, because no djinn is going to be size 6 on the turn a death lizard sprints out.
Besides, why can't they just point at the Djinn and kill it? Twice?
Why not try a 'Edict' effect for every one of their creatures until they sac the Lizard?
Are you going to cast Wrath now?
How about Sleep? ( Carnage Tyrants deck generally ignore Sleep style effects)
And just say you do manage to get a size 6/4 Tempest Djinn, they get to attack, you block, and you still take trample damage.
After you cast Dive Down and laugh, better hope they don't a Titanic Growth or some other random common.
Eh, I don't think Carnage Tyrant is unfair. It's just a big, dumb creature that cannot be interacted with. It may seem unfair if you're trying to counter it, point a spot removal at it, or race on the ground, but that's not a helpful way to look at a Magic card.
Because OTOH, Carnage Tyrant is very fair if you are playing sweepers or racing in the air like this deck. What this means is that this isn't about a card being fair or unfair. Carnage Tyrant is simply good versus some strategies while not so good against others. Now that's a helpful way to look at a Magic card.
Eh, I don't think Carnage Tyrant is unfair. It's just a big, dumb creature that cannot be interacted with. It may seem unfair if you're trying to counter it, point a spot removal at it, or race on the ground, but that's not a helpful way to look at a Magic card.
Because OTOH, Carnage Tyrant is very fair if you are playing sweepers or racing in the air like this deck. What this means is that this isn't about a card being fair or unfair. Carnage Tyrant is simply good versus some strategies while not so good against others. Now that's a helpful way to look at a Magic card.
Hey ShineyMan, What is the only pure green creature in play that a Merfolk Trickster can't tap?
Hint : It has trample, and will still deal 5 damage when the Trickster tries to Chump Block.
Nullhide Ferox is the only other Big, Dumb, and slightly Hexproof creature in Green. (Arboreum wont see play)
Combined with Steel Leaf Champion, that's all that sees play, because they are the unfair pure green stompers.
Carnage Tyrant is simply better.
'Good at some strategies' is lovely, but, why not just be better at lots of additional strategies for no cost?
Carnage Tyrant is SO overpowered that the entire green reason to exist (the Big, Dumb creatures) are sidelined.
Why play worse cardboard?
"It may seem unfair if you're trying to counter it, point a spot removal at it, or race on the ground"
Well, . . .yeah.
So, in this format, if you are trying to do that, you will just lose to carnage Tyrant.
I have looked at my 3 counterspells and just lost to Carnage Tyrant. (Niv-Mizzet)
I tried to base an entire deck on counter-spells, and just gave up because of Carnage Tyrant (&Niv-M)
There is no reason for someone to play strictly worse cardboard that does not say Carnage Tyrant, therefore, it is utterly unfair, and defines the format.
I mean, what Planeswalkers are effective against the Death Lizard?
(Because almost all of them work against almost all of the other creatures.)
A reason Mono-U works is the Death Lizard.
Go ahead and play sweepers. Ritual of Soot is a really strong sweeper that destroys Mono-U, and Carnage Tyrant (& Niv-M) ignore it.
Go Ahead and play 4 Ravenous Chupabara, because the Death Lizard does not care. Phew, that card destroys us.
Justice strike? Dead against Death Lizard, great against US.
Lava Coil? - Thanks Mr Lizard
All the mono-black point and kill spells are useless against pure Plainswalkers and Death Lizard.
Lots & Lots of really hideous cards do not get played in base purely because the format is so warped by Death Lizard (& Niv-M)
Purely because Carnage Tyrant is so obviously, utterly, stupidly overpowered, decks like Mono-U get a HUGE advantage. Everyone else can not afford to ignore the Tyrant, and we, by default, have to because there is so little we can do about it. (Sleep is terrible when they do not draw one of their 2 Lizards, and beat us with boardwipe and plainswalkers.)
Just slap Metamorphic Alteration on random creature, copy the most unfair creature ever and go to their face, they can block or not.
Or copy your Djinn and go to town.
MonoR is not the worst matchup for us, we have every tool to beat them. Not sure which is the worst, but that one is not.
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Game 1 - U vs UR - A Natural Obsession Stomp vs 2 land
Game 2 - U vs URW - A Natural Obsession Stomp - early concession
Vid 2 is same deck
Game 1 - vs UR - Obsession Stomp - t3 Concession
Game 2 - vs U - Counterspell THEIR obsession (turn 4), Djinn Beatdown after counterwars
first 4 he plays first
Game 3 - vs RW - Creature Battle. Some interaction, not with the plays I would make, he gets a Djinn and some little guys, puts an Obsession on and wins a closer one.
Vid 3
Game 1 - vs RW - Turn 2 Trickster, Why doesn't he play the obsession on turn 3? - Turn 4 Concession
Game 2 - vs W - Early Creatures, Essence capture good. Djinn gets a Conclave. Poor Trickster play, should have killed an Adanto Vanguard. Ordinary play leads to a loss he should have won.
Game 3 - GB - On Draw - Huh? Why didn't he Essence capture the first enemy creature? Instead he plays a Trickster, and then attacks without the casting Obsession. (multiple DD in hand.Draws and plays a Pter, puts an Obsession on it. Why no block and kill the 3/2 with his 2/2 trickster? Why does he not cast the OPT with spare mana? Rides the Pter with obsession to Victory.
Not great play, but does demonstrate how the deck abuses Obsession. Every game he gets one.
I think he goes first 6 games in 8.
Single games, no sideboard
Interesting, but, well, this guy seems to be a bit of a beginner.
I posted it because I thought it might be interesting for some people to once see some Pteramander, Essence Capture and Quench in play.
Also here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91W9boiR2C4
Nothing groundbreaking new, but for those who wanna have some more actual gameplay on the new cards.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
4 pteramander
4 siren stormchaser
4 sphinx of foresight
4 surge mare (anti-aggro, synergy w/essence capture)
4 tempest djinn
4 arrester’s admonition
4 curious obsession
4 dive down
4 essence capture
4 opt
4 lookout’s dispersal (replace Wizard’s Retort, only 4 wizards)
4 scrabbling claws
4 warkite marauder (anti-control, when surge mare sucks)
3 negate (opposite of essence capture)
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI&t=1s
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg&t=1s
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
REDtwister really wanted to add White for a few cards, but the deck is all about blUe.
Red got White and Blue mixed up.
.
Just like in your trailing message.
blUe, White, Red isn't right. . .
White, blUe, Red is what you should have - Ah, Flags, what fun.
.
***********
TruthBomb,
Opt should be in the main, or gone. But really it should be in the main if you want Pter to work.
Pter wants more spells.
4xSphinx of foresight is tooo many. 3 at max, maybe 2. I do really like the card.
4xSurge mare main is tooo many, 2 seems OK. Put the other two in the board
4xArrester’s admonition just doesn't seem right, at all
4xEssence capture Is very keen, I reckon 2-3 is pushing it.
SB
Wizard’s Retort is better, and it needs the wizards, so, the tricksters need to be there. Tricksters have also been really good.
4xScrabbling claws just doesn't seem terribly useful, Syncopate might be better at what you are trying to do.
I would like a 4th Negate.
*************.
Played it a bit more. Sphinx in opening is AWESOME.
Drawing him on turn 1 or 2 just blows.
Not getting to 4 mana, or being too scared to actually play him is also a bad idea.
Sometimes the deck changes when playing 3 of him. It can become a serious beatdown machine.
turn 1 1/1
turn 2 2/2
turn 3 3+/4
turn 4 4/4
Suddenly it is about real flying thump, not just dodge, deny and weave.
@truth_bomb It seems like you're pre-sideboarding for White Weemie variants. Such a skewed list will certainly perform worse in an open field. To balance it out, try cutting a Sphinx or two, a couple of Mares, some Essence Captures, and all Arrester's Admonitions, then add 4 Merfolk Tricksters, 4 Opts (if you choose Pteramander over Mist-Cloaked Herald) and 4 Wizard's Retort. You can also try Lookout Dispersal if you want to go with 4 Hellkite Marauders, though Wizard's Retort + 4 Merfolk Tricksters work much better imo.
Arrester's Admonition doesn't quite work because you rarely want to main-phase a bounce spell. Yes, you get to draw a card, but considering that this deck is often constrained on mana and time, that card won't do you much good.
OTOH, Exclusion Mage works because it has a body and that helps you pressure your opponent.Plus, it makes Wizard's Retort more consistent.
If you really want a cantrip bounce, play 4x Merfolk Tricksters and 4x Mist-Cloaked Heralds and go for Crashing Tide instead.
4 exclusion mage
4 merfolk trickster
4 mist-cloaked herald
4 siren stormchaser
4 tempest djinn
4 curious obsession
4 dive down
4 essence capture
4 opt
4 wizard’s retort
4 negate
4 surge mare
4 syncopate
3 sphinx of foresight
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI&t=1s
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg&t=1s
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
lol Thanks for the reminder. Sometimes we stop reading the cards because we think we know them by heart. Apparently that is never the right way to do it.
RTFC holds true always. (Read the Friendly Cards)
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Definitely interesting to watch
Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAqq1aGM3DI&t=0s&index=22&list=WL
I was thinking about a bicolor version without Djinn this morning, because the more i play the deck, the more i feel that it has a very strong core plus a dozen of cards that are less powerfull/too much situational (all our 2 drops, simply put), and Djinn prevents any improvement by beeing so strong by himself (and reducing dramatically our options)
So yesterday I played 4 rounds at FNM with this list.
4 Siren Stormtamer
4 Pteramander
1 Warkite Marauder
4 Merfolk Trickster
3 Sphinx of Foresight
4 Curious Obsession
18 Island
2 Spell Pierce
4 Dive Down
4 Wizard's Retort
4 Opt
2 Essence Capture
2 Chart a Course
2 Surge Mare
1 Warkite Marauder
1 Mesmerizing Benthid
2 Deep Freeze
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Diamond Mare
2 Negate
1 Entrancing Melody
1 Sleep
1 Selective Snare
Just FYI, the Mesmerizing Benthid was supposed to be a Crafty Cutpurse, due to the high amount of Selesnya/Hero of Precinct One decks running around in my local meta. I hadn't bought one, so a friend lent me it for the spice.
Round One - 4 Color Gates
I won round one off of a timely Merfolk Trickster tapping down a Gatebreaker Ram, and him not drawing anything but lands. He won game two after I misplayed, forgetting to sacrifice Siren Stormtamer to protect a [Tempest Djinn] from a Crushing Canopy. He then topddecked a Niv Mizzet, Parun and killed my Pteramander with a Gate Colossus out, after which I promptly conceded. Game three was close, and I had him to 4 life with a 7/4 Tempest Djinn. He had a Guild Summit, and after going Circuitous Route x2 and Growth Spiral he drew a Archway Angel, gaining 16 life. I then started beating down, but eventually he got a Gate Colossus. Luckily, I had Deep Freeze, but he drew Gates Ablaze. He then played a gate, and setting Gate Colossus back on his library and drawing it with the Guild Summit trigger, cast it again. I drew a Wizard's Retort, and that being the only card in my hand with 4 life, conceded.
Notes: Gates seems like a tough matchup. Spell Pierce is bad, unless countering a Guild Summit or Circuitous Route, as they never cast Gates Ablaze without at least 3 gates, and normally some other lands. Overall, the games were close, and could have gone either way. Jace, Cunning Castaway seems like it could be a very good sideboard card. I saw two or three gates decks running around in a pool of 25 or so, and Jace seems good against control too.
Round Two - Esper Hero
this matchup was unexciting. He couldnt draw gas. that was basically it, i won in two games. He was also playing a bit off meta, with Divine Visitation. Not much to say here, unfortunately. maybe next week.
Round 3 - Mono Red Rakdos
Chainwhirler, ouch.
Game one I won, due to him not hitting a Chainwhirler. I sided in Surge Mare and it was litteral Jesus. He couldnt beat it. Game two he won, but because of a Chainwhirler + Lava coil with 4 Runaway Steam-Kin. Game 3 he mulled to 5, and kept, while I kept a one lander with Sphinx of Foresight. I cannot, CANNOT, overstate how good this card is. I frequently side out one for games two and three against Red, but in every matchup, this card works miracles. It even has a great body. I managed to set up a perfect draw, and put a Curious Obsession on Surge Mare. Nice Lava Coil bud. I won of of that, and managed to make it to 2-1.
Notes: Red seems favorable. With Surge mare, it seems heavily favored in games 2 and 3, and slightly favored in game one due to many decks not playing Rekindling Phoenix in the mainboard. Tempest Djinn laughs at Lightning Strike and Shock all the way to two for one value town. Fun times.
Round 4- Golgari Krasis
Oh boy.
This matchup is my worst by far. Carnage Tyrant is not a fair magic card. He won game one off of a massive punish as I played two Pteramander into the second half of Find // Finality. He had a Tyrant left over, and i lost the game.
Game two sucked. He got a Wildgrowth Walker out and just gained back all the life i hit him for with a 3/3 Pteramander with 2 Curious Obsession on it. I drew a lot, though, and managed to find a Merfolk Trickster to tap it down the turn he played a Jadelight Ranger, preventing 6 life. I found 2 Tempest Djinn and threw 1/1 after 1/1 in front of his massive Wildgrowth Walker. Game three went much the same as game two, only he drew a million lands, and didnt have a Wildgrowth Walker. He eventually found a Find // Finality, but didnt cast it, as he thought it targeted, much the same as River's Rebuke, and that I could counter it with Siren Stormtamer. He played a Hydroid Krasis, which i had an Essence Capture for, and on the back of 2 Djinns and a Pteramander. I swung for 21, winning the game.
Notes: I should have brought in Negate, and also probably Surge Mare, as it survives Find // Finality and Vivien Reid, and blocks most of their creatures. Essence Capture is also a super good card in this matchup, so hold it up around turn 5-6 for those Krasi and Doom Whisperer's.
Overall, Mono Blue felt very strong, and competitive. Another player piloted the deck, and went 4-0, also beating the same Golgari Krasis player that I faced in round 4. I do, however, feel the sideboard was a bit clunky, and was wondering about yalls opinions on Jace.
Thats it for me, any feedback is appreciated.
I disagree with that statement.
-Stay Frosty
I agree with that statement.
And thanks for the write up.
I mean, "hexproof, cannot be countered" is exceedingly obnoxious, but it is 4GG. It's a relatively efficient Timmy card, but Sleep, Edict effects, and Wrath effects all deal with it. We have one of those effects. Also, I can successfully trade with Djinn, and if I want to take no damage, I'll use Dive Down. It's an annoyingly resilient beater and nothing else.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
20 Island
Creatures (18)
4 Merfolk Trickster
2 Surge Mare
4 Siren Stormtamer
4 Tempest Djinn
4 Pteramander
4 Curious Obsession
3 Essence Capture
4 Dive Down
3 Spell Pierce
4 Wizard's Retort
4 Opt
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Negate
3 Exclusion Mage
1 Spell Pierce
1 Selective Snare
3 Treasure Map
1 Essence Capture
1 Mesmerizing Benthid
1 Sleep
Yep, this deck has my attention...3 Treasure Map sounds really interesting here.
-Stay Frosty
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
- Kitesail Freebooter is a welcome addition. It disrupts the opponent's gameplan, provides card advantage, and can pick up Curious Obsession. It also ups the pirate count and allows us to switch over from Wizard's Retort to Lookout Dispersal without worries.
- Thief of Hope is also a welcome addition, essentially a flyer with built-in Curious Obsession. It costs 3 mana though, and therefore is a bit clunky considering that for this deck that cmc should be for beaters like Tempest Djinn or Spawn of Mayhem. It's also possible that we just move away from heavy-hitters in 3-cc and just peck the opponent to death; in that case having 4 Thief of Hope would be fine.
- Speaking of Spawn of Mayhem, I'm not sure how much this card adds to the deck. If it comes down on turn 3, it certainly hits harder than Djinn, but if it comes down late then Djinn generally hits harder. Since when did we run out a Djinn on turn 3 without protection though? Also, to get double black on turn 3, you need a lot of Swamps, and that has an unfortunate side effect of giving you two Swamps in your opening hand. My inclination is that if someone is going Dimir, they should just ditch Spawn of Mayhem and instead max out on Spinx and Thief of Hope.
- With black, Drill Bit may become a viable sideboard option. Spectacle is relatively easy to turn on and it hits all non-land cards.
I've not tried the deck though; these are just thoughts based on the experience I've had with straight-up mono blue. Will try it out when I have a chance and will report back to the thread.
2) What do you take out for Treasure Map?
Alrighty then, lets go there.
Prime Titan is a mythic rare, which considering the power creep over the last 10 years is a really good indicator that it is not a 'Fair' card. It is the backbone of a modern deck. Fair cards do not get played in Modern. By definition, if you ARE playing fair cards, Why? This is MODERN.
Yup, Grave titans are a mythic rare too.
I played Grave Titans at the nationals, because they were the most unfair possible creature for me to play.
They just win games if they stay on the board. The problem was getting them onto the board, and keeping them alive.
Two massively overpowered 6 cost creatures are your justification for why Carnage Tyrant is fair.
And the Tyrant breezes past the fundamental problems both have.
1) Counterspell Titan A/B
2) Point at Titan A/B, Kill it
That is how to deal with those two creatures, mostly.
Sure, if you point at them, them will leave some residue, but that's OK.
Now, Apply those two solutions to Angry Death Lizard, and they do not work.
If you are claiming the BEST two Titans are better/worse than the death Lizard, why are you comparing the strongest 6 drops in the last 10 years and trying to claim 'Fairness'?
Carnage Tyrant obliterates the basic concept of fairness in creatures.
I counterspell
I Burn it / Kill it / Steal it / Bounce it
. . .NOPE, Carnage Tyrant ignores your statement
"Storm and Dredge" are the definition of unfair.
As a mechanic, Storm has been sworn off by Wizards for being inherently 'Unfair'.
Both see play in VINTAGE !!!
'Griselbrand, Emrakul' - Yes, they are completely unfair, utterly, embarrassingly broken bits of cardboard that get used in Modern/Legacy
"It won't see play in Modern or Legacy and it has no viable combo finish associated with it."
I think I agree with this because it is a creature that is actually cast.
There are bigger creatures like 'Griselbrand, Emrakul' if you are going to cheat one into play, but that is like saying LLanowar is terrible because noone is going to Thru-The-Breach a LLelf.
In Standard right now, there is no way to cheat creatures into play effectively (I think), so Emrukal would suck in standard.
Right now, Carnage Tyrant is UNFAIR in Standard.
'Sleep, Edict effects, and Wrath effects all deal with it.'
They deal with Emrukal too, so why don't they work?
Well, Wrath wipes both sides of the board, Sleep to far too situational to be base deck (IMHO, and look at almost all lists for Mono-U), and last time I checked Edict effects do not exist in Blue and will only kill the Tyrant if he is alone.
All 3 of those effects also work on Titan A/B, and Titan A/B were already obviously busted cards. So What?
How about we try a much fairer comparison.
Six cost Standard Green
Affectionate Indrik
Aggressive Mammoth
Carnage Tyrant
Colossal Dreadmaw
Grunn, the Lonely King
Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar
Primordial Wurm
Vigorspore Wurm
Well, Why is it that out of all of those cards, only one stands out as being Obscenely more powerful?
They all cost the same.
How come the 'Fair ' card has the same power as the Death Lizard, but none of it's 3 strong abilities?
Hydroid Crasis is hardly unfair.
It sure aint gunna see any Legacy/Modern play, and it can be counterspelled, and pointed at.
6 cost effects that gain life gain Heaps more
6 cost effects that draw cards gain Heaps more
6 cost creatures are way better
Crasis is an amalgam of everything, and not special at anything.
Sure, it is a reasonable card that might see some play in standard. Maybe.
Death Lizard is an obvious, format defining card.
Carange T is the obvious benchmark that all other green thumpers are compared to.
Standard Planeswalkers can't touch it (I think).
If your plan is to kill it with a Djinn, good luck, because no djinn is going to be size 6 on the turn a death lizard sprints out.
Besides, why can't they just point at the Djinn and kill it? Twice?
Why not try a 'Edict' effect for every one of their creatures until they sac the Lizard?
Are you going to cast Wrath now?
How about Sleep? ( Carnage Tyrants deck generally ignore Sleep style effects)
And just say you do manage to get a size 6/4 Tempest Djinn, they get to attack, you block, and you still take trample damage.
After you cast Dive Down and laugh, better hope they don't a Titanic Growth or some other random common.
Because OTOH, Carnage Tyrant is very fair if you are playing sweepers or racing in the air like this deck. What this means is that this isn't about a card being fair or unfair. Carnage Tyrant is simply good versus some strategies while not so good against others. Now that's a helpful way to look at a Magic card.
Hey ShineyMan, What is the only pure green creature in play that a Merfolk Trickster can't tap?
Hint : It has trample, and will still deal 5 damage when the Trickster tries to Chump Block.
Nullhide Ferox is the only other Big, Dumb, and slightly Hexproof creature in Green. (Arboreum wont see play)
Combined with Steel Leaf Champion, that's all that sees play, because they are the unfair pure green stompers.
Carnage Tyrant is simply better.
'Good at some strategies' is lovely, but, why not just be better at lots of additional strategies for no cost?
Carnage Tyrant is SO overpowered that the entire green reason to exist (the Big, Dumb creatures) are sidelined.
Why play worse cardboard?
"It may seem unfair if you're trying to counter it, point a spot removal at it, or race on the ground"
Well, . . .yeah.
So, in this format, if you are trying to do that, you will just lose to carnage Tyrant.
I have looked at my 3 counterspells and just lost to Carnage Tyrant. (Niv-Mizzet)
I tried to base an entire deck on counter-spells, and just gave up because of Carnage Tyrant (&Niv-M)
There is no reason for someone to play strictly worse cardboard that does not say Carnage Tyrant, therefore, it is utterly unfair, and defines the format.
I mean, what Planeswalkers are effective against the Death Lizard?
(Because almost all of them work against almost all of the other creatures.)
A reason Mono-U works is the Death Lizard.
Go ahead and play sweepers. Ritual of Soot is a really strong sweeper that destroys Mono-U, and Carnage Tyrant (& Niv-M) ignore it.
Go Ahead and play 4 Ravenous Chupabara, because the Death Lizard does not care. Phew, that card destroys us.
Justice strike? Dead against Death Lizard, great against US.
Lava Coil? - Thanks Mr Lizard
All the mono-black point and kill spells are useless against pure Plainswalkers and Death Lizard.
Lots & Lots of really hideous cards do not get played in base purely because the format is so warped by Death Lizard (& Niv-M)
Purely because Carnage Tyrant is so obviously, utterly, stupidly overpowered, decks like Mono-U get a HUGE advantage. Everyone else can not afford to ignore the Tyrant, and we, by default, have to because there is so little we can do about it. (Sleep is terrible when they do not draw one of their 2 Lizards, and beat us with boardwipe and plainswalkers.)
Or copy your Djinn and go to town.
MonoR is not the worst matchup for us, we have every tool to beat them. Not sure which is the worst, but that one is not.