Do we really want to tell people NOT to play Glimmer? It is the defacto best draw spell for control. Not everyone has to like Glimmer. But it is thee draw spell.
3 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Fumigate
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Disallow
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Settle the Wreckage
4 Supreme Will
4 Unsummon
4 Cast Out
4 Censor
4 Opt
I'm been playing around with this deck for about 2 weeks right now and I been have good success with it. The thing is that its a U/W control variant but without Suns.
Its still a work in progress but I like hows been running. So far I have gone
2-1 Temur Energy
1-1 Ramunap Red
3-0 Control
1-2 4C Energy
1-0 U/W Gift
To be honest the most surprising cards so far has been Jace, Ingenious Mind and Thaumatic Compass. Jace against control has been very good because nobody expects it and I love taking there Torrential and/or Caracal and the extra free draw helps. Thaumatic has been the MVP vs Energy holding up there Cub, God, Hydra etc for a couple turns has been the best. It holds down the fort until I draw what I need. I playing with Cancel right because I don't have disallow yet but it it has been fantastic. Sideboard is what I need help in I don't know what to put in. Spell Pierce is coming out because every time I draw it I have no use for it then and Kefnet I still don't know yet cause I haven't drawn it with I sideboard it in. What you guys suggest and what you guys think of the deck.
Thanks for choosing to play kind of a version of my deck but without the Approaches.
Here's my thoughts about it:
First of all I don't like Planeswalkers in general, I stopped playing magic around 2010-2011 when they just came out with planeswalkers and I started playing again this year in April, so I didn't play with any planeswalkers and so I don't want to play with them now. I did play against them obviously and I think they are "win more" type of card and usually don't really affect the board when they come into play. However, if you enjoy playing with them, be my guest!
As for what changes you should make main deck I really believe that 2 Thaumatic Compass is the minimum for this type of deck and even 3 would work since the land is not legendary after it flips so you can have 2 or 3 of them out and basically hold back a couple of creatures every turn. Also, there is no point to have a settle the wreckage in the sideboard, either play it main deck or not all. Supreme will and Censor don't really work with settle the wreckage and it's one reason why I don't play any Censors in my deck at all and only 2 supreme wills.
You should play 4 Essence Scatters in the deck and at least 2-3 Negates main deck, maybe you can take out the 4 Censor and add these instead.
Next is Glimmer of Genius, I don't play any because at 4 casting cost they compete with both Cast out and Settle the wreckage in the deck so it will be almost impossible for you to glimmer on turn 4 as you will want to cast either of the other cards instead. Because of this I decided to run 3 Champion of wits because he is only 3 to cast so he can come out a turn earlier. If you do stay with it then you should play Confiscation Coup in the sideboard to make use of the energy.
I don't think Opt has a role in this deck because it does nothing, and this deck doesn't need to cast anything on turn 1. You have search for azcanta and glimmer to draw cards so you don't need too much extra card draw, also supreme will helps as well.
As for your sideboard:
Negate should be moved to main deck instead of the sideboard, as should the 1 setle the wreckage and 1 scavenger grounds, no reason for them to be in the sideboard. I'm not sure why you have jace's defeat and spell pierce either since you already enough counters main deck. Kefnet has been slow and I tested him for a couple of months and decided to throw him out of the deck.
You should have 2-3 Forsake the worldly against God Pharaoh's gift decks. Crook of Condemnation against same decks or the Scarab God decks and I would recommend vizier of deferment which can exile and opp's attacking creature and give you a 2/2 blocker at instant speed or it can exile your Regal Caracal after it blocks and it can come back and make more tokens. This card has been MVP for me in many match-ups, and of course it can kill a token creature when it comes into play as well.
These are my suggestions for your deck, let me know what you think! I am also testing metallurgic summonings in the sideboard as an alternate win condition.
I appreciate the feedback. I will try out by taking out the censors and but a couple of negates and max out on the essence scatters. I also going to put a second Thaumatic Compass. I feel that this card is going to be a sleeper and no one is going to expect it. Even though I like Champion of wits I'm going to keep on testing with Glimmer of Genius and keep a sorta traditional route. Don't get me wrong I really like your version, I just want to test all versions and see for myself which one I like better being from traditional style to your innovative hybrid style. I am also going to keep the Jace in and continue to test and see what kinda results it continues to give.
As far as sideboard goes I really appreciate the help. I am always bad with the sideboard. That's my weakness right now. I am going to try out the Forsakes, the vizier and the metallurgic summoning sounds interesting and fun.
Thanks a lot for your suggestions and I will let you guys know my results with these changes.
Do we really want to tell people NOT to play Glimmer? It is the defacto best draw spell for control. Not everyone has to like Glimmer. But it is thee draw spell.
For me its kinda a preference thing. For me I like Glimmer better right now than Champion of wits because it interacts better with Torrential Gearhulk so I can use it twice . Even though Champion of wits can be used twice using its eternalize. I also like Glimmers scry cause I can get what I need.
Do we really want to tell people NOT to play Glimmer? It is the defacto best draw spell for control. Not everyone has to like Glimmer. But it is thee draw spell.
For me its kinda a preference thing. For me I like Glimmer better right now than Champion of wits because it interacts better with Torrential Gearhulk so I can use it twice . Even though Champion of wits can be used twice using its eternalize. I also like Glimmers scry cause I can get what I need.
Yeah, I agree that if you play Gearhulk then you should probably play glimmer or hieroglyphic illuminations so you can re-cast it again. However for my version of the deck which doesn't have Gearhulks I want to be able to "search" for the approach so champion of wits is much better in my deck, it also comes out on turn 3 since there's not much else for me to do on that turn and of course once I hit 7 lands I will Eternalize it, which happens almost in every game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"May he who is without mana cast the first spell!"
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
I made an account just to respond to this, because I believe that this deck is excellent and I want to help people pilot it as best as possible.
<Xaltair, you really shouldn't be giving people advice and you especially shouldn't be giving it without disclaimers.> Your meta (as evidenced in an earlier post) is full of budget decks and homebrews. You seem to reject conventional wisdom with this deck (such as not playing glimmer), but you need to have good reasons to change the deck. Since your deck has no notable results and hasn't been vouched for by any credibly good player, you need to have good reasons for playing it and you certainly shouldn't be presenting it as the 'standard list' - which is implied by the fact that you wrote this primer. Cards like Thaumatic Compass and Vizier of Deferment are good, but to be a legitimate choice in this deck they would have to be better than the other choices, which they aren't. Until you gain any legitimacy as an approach player or even a control player, I would really refrain from helping others unless it's to parrot better player's advice.
Please critique the ideas and not the player. Thanks! -- lugger
To the mods, I believe that someone else should take over the first post.
Hi there Cherios!
Have a few cents to put into your build and advice you've gotten.
Plainswalkers are premium cards that should not be discounted out of hand. Not all of them are good or work well with control, however many of them are gamecrushers and you should always take a look at the good ones in your colors. See Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy to name some recent ballers.
Glad to see you chose to stick with Glimmer. Whether you play Confiscation Coup or not the Scry 2 has immense value keeping you in the correct options in every matchup. Obviously if you're more cycling oriented you'd choose Hieroglyphic Illumination over it but your current build doesn't warrant that as I see it.
When it comes to Essence Scatter and Negate you really need to look at your LGS' meta. If there's a lot of control expected sure some negates main can be key. Scatter has it's benefits but with the speed of the top tier decks (if you can expect any of them) a full suite is going to bog you down and you'll wish you had an opt early on instead to guarantee that next land drop or further filter your deck for a sweeper/Cast Out you need to answer a problem.
Thaumatic Compass is cute but the deeper you go on that type of Strat the more you weaken your 'land go' equilibrium and open yourself to losses from fast low to the ground creature decks. Mana sink? Sure, but do you have the mana/time to mess with the thing and is it the most expedient to keeping yourself in the game? I recommend testing against Ramred and Temur energy to get a feel for how if you miss a beat it will cost you the game early, and how the resilient Strats can recover from that sweeper making you pay for missing just one land drop, or that land that has to come out tapped.
This is why many UW players choose Opt and Censor builds to completely disrupt the early aggression and hit lands to get safely into the 4+ mana range of your sweepers.
Alternate win cons out of the side really are where knowing your local game store's meta will shine for you and you can be flexible with cards like Kefnet, plains walkers that aren't perhaps premium, and fun cards you simply want to jam. Never forget to have fun!
My best recommendation for your build would be to drop the Jace and Compass for x2 Approach of the Second Sun or at the very least put them in your board to surprise in game 2. It really is a hard wincon to deal with these days and if they're not running blue the cannot stop you short of black digging them all out of your deck with the sub-par Lost Legacy
I haven't been on this deck but I put a ton of time into this season. 4 PPTQ top 8'd 3 with straight UW, 1 with Jeskai. Glimmer is essential, no, Necessary! Whether you or run 3 and a 2 of hieroglyphic illumination, (I liked this a lot, my meta was and is heavy on aggro decks a la mono black and red so the extra 1 mana cycler is relevant) comes down to deck building and what you are trying to have your curve be. I really like censor being censor on T1-3. disallow was a card I included after realizing that Supreme Will didn't stop late game top decks.
I like using enchantment based removal over real spot removal, my version kept a lock on the board and made my Fumigates that much better. I see a lot of Approach players lean on this win con too much in the mtgo leagues. It becomes easy to disrupt and early pressure backed by cards like Spell Pierce are devastating. This is one of the reasons I used sub par cards like Aethermelt down to mitigate tempo loss and effect the board. Jeskai was the last variation I played and it was a blast. Like SLAM DUNK energy match ups and mono black but that deck has a really hard time against the wave of Gift decks that came after the PT.
Esper was a deck I wanted to try but I jumped on energy (I just wanted to learn the "hated" deck, so that I would know how to attack it).
On Opt I like this card in Jeskai, and in some UW Builds. I think Esper has much better things to T1-T3, it has Push and Censor to help it there so Opt isn't that essential to that build.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
I made an account just to respond to this, because I believe that this deck is excellent and I want to help people pilot it as best as possible.
Xaltair, you really shouldn't be giving people advice and you especially shouldn't be giving it without disclaimers. Your meta (as evidenced in an earlier post) is full of budget decks and homebrews. You seem to reject conventional wisdom with this deck (such as not playing glimmer), but you need to have good reasons to change the deck. Since your deck has no notable results and hasn't been vouched for by any credibly good player, you need to have good reasons for playing it and you certainly shouldn't be presenting it as the 'standard list' - which is implied by the fact that you wrote this primer. Cards like Thaumatic Compass and Vizier of Deferment are good, but to be a legitimate choice in this deck they would have to be better than the other choices, which they aren't. Until you gain any legitimacy as an approach player or even a control player, I would really refrain from helping others unless it's to parrot better player's advice.
To the mods, I believe that someone else should take over the first post.
I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I've been playing this deck successfully for the past 3-4 months and have made changes to it during that time which I have posted on this thread to help other players try new things.
You have no idea what my meta is like and the fact that I can win with it means that the deck is good and I'm a good enough player to beat different players every month. I have only managed to play tourneys about twice a month since October due to being busy.
There is no "standard list" for this deck or "legitimate" choices. I have tested this deck for many months and in my opinion and in my version of this deck champion of wits is better than glimmer of genius. I started playing this deck 6 months ago with glimmer of genius main deck and only when I changed to a creature approach to be able to defeat aggro decks in the first game did I take out glimmer and added the champions instead.
The reason I have been winning games is not that my opponents suck but because Thaumatic Compass is a bomb, and if you actually played a few games with it you'd realize that too.
It's fine if you don't want to play some cards and want to play netdecks that the pro's play at PTQ's but don't come here to complain that this version of the deck is not good just because you don't understand the synergy of the cards in the deck and have likely never played this version ever in your life. Also, I've been playing Magic and control decks for about 20 years now, so I don't think I am a good control player, I know I am a good control player, I'm also a good enough deck builder that I don't have to "parrot" or copy other people to have a successful deck.
Last but not least I was one of the original people to create the Ramunap Red deck (using about 75% of the cards that made the deck famous, including the deserts) way back in June of this year, right before Hour of Devastation came out, and I have the archived thread on this website with the decklist to prove that. So, I could say that the players using that deck in major tourneys probably stole the idea and cards from me since I was the first one to post the deck with using the Sunscorched Desert maindeck, and with that deck I also beat a lot of people at my LGS back in June/July of this year.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"May he who is without mana cast the first spell!"
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
I'll respond to each point individually, since there's a lot to unpack here:
1. You posted a tournament report from a FNM where I gathered that your meta had more homebrews than legitimate decks. You claim to be 'good enough to beat different players' but those players are hamstringing themselves.
2. There certainly is a standard list for this deck, as established by decks that have put up tournament results. Your version has not put up any.
3. I'll give you that; Thaumatic Compass is a decent card and there's a chance that it could be an overlooked bomb. However, don't pretend as if you're playing against good players. You've already proven that you aren't.
4. The 'netdecks' are better than your brews, evidenced by the fact that your brew hasn't put up any results outside of your FNM. If you've been playing control decks for 20 years, where are your results? what tournaments have you won?
5. Plenty of people independently thought of the ramunap red deck (each pro tour team, plenty of individual players). If your deck was only 75% accurate to a good list, then it was clearly untuned. Even if you are good at coming up with deck ideas, that's not what we're discussing here; we're discussing fine-tuning an established list.
Gentlemen (or ladies, I don't want to make any assumptions), let's settle down a bit.
This thread exists to share ideas. Not all ideas/comments are going to be brilliant (Xaltair, Planeswalkers are freaking amazing and changed the game in a major way and you just have to get on board with that fact), but often the idea that significantly changes things was dismissed out of hand by someone else (Mooster, Thaumatic Compass is absolutely a bomb -- at least in the control mirror. So is Kefnet. I even run one in energy decks). Let's try to keep the comments about the decks and debate ideas, not the people who have them. Who knows, maybe we'll start a trend and the quality of political discourse in broader society will improve too...okay, maybe not. But at least we can be civil to each other here.
Happy New Year!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
In response to a report (not by this thread author), I merged two Approach threads into the first one created.
The decklist presented by the thread author has some significant differences from what I see in the worldwide meta for Approach decks: looking over a few days of reported MTGO 5-0 decks I find only this. These are the mtggoldfish representations of the Approach decks: Esper, Boros, Jeskai and Azorius. A brief scan shows maindeck creatures only in the Boros variant and Glimmer in the remaining U variants.
This thread author has been active and responsive and I believe that it is my job to support them. These threads are volunteer efforts that are the lifeblood of the forum. Supporting thread authors to take unconventional tacks is part of the purpose of the forums. Personal attacks, flaming or trolling will not be permitted.
Threads need traffic to thrive. We allow multiple sub-archetypes to share a thread when we judge the traffic to be insufficient for multiple threads.
Ideally, this thread could support both the thread author's less conventional approach and people who want to play more proven variants until there is sufficient traffic for two threads.
I am an avid hobbyist. I cherish the grinders (like racerxen (IMO, and not to exclude anybody)) who are willing to contribute their knowledge and time to help those of us who don't spend as much time or play as competitively. It sounds like mooster may fit in this category. I want them to feel appreciated and contribute as much as they want appropriately.
TLDR: Thread is for both the OP deck and more proven variants (my fault, don't blame the thread originator). Can we please make this work for everybody?
I've been quietly following this thread for the past couple of months; started MTG a few months ago and gravitated to UW Approach. This thread has helped me a ton: thank you to everyone who has taken the time to contribute.
Temur
-4 Opt
-3 Search
-2 Supreme Will
-2 Glimmer
-1 Fumigate
-3 Approach
+15 Sideboard
FNM has been going reasonably well but the quality of decks is pretty inconsistent at times. Anyway, if anyone has specific thoughts would welcome the feedback.
I feel like pitching all your Search for Azcanta against Temur and putting in Authority of the Consuls might be an error.
Granted Authority is a huge help against Glorybringer but you need to have the right cards in hand!
Did you choose zero Torrential Gearhulk in the side for any particular reason? I understand going really creature heavy and life gain and while I really like Sunscourge Champion you might cut at least one of them for a Torrential. I also wouldn't cut Fumigate even with creatures because their creatures go over you or right through you as even a cub gets far larger than you might be able to handle with a few blocks and no draw. Maybe another Settle the Wreakage in the board to bring you to 3 is also a good idea. Nothing worse than continuing to draw Authority late game when you need gas, so I prefer 3 total no matter when you use them.
I've worked and tested with Sunscourge Champion a lot and while I like it, I find it and even the recurring life gain anemic unless I'm really all in on life gain. Champion of Wits should be a consideration since the full hand really does do the work for you and even when you sweep it's much better out of the GY. (Temur matchup of course as Sunscourge is better vs red for sure).
I've also found that just Regal x3 serves it's purpose against Red without sunscourge.
Hobbits,
Get yourself a pair of Scavenger Grounds. Gift decks are brutal! Settle the Wreckage is a key card in our deck. Have at least 3x main. No less.
The decklist presented by the thread author has some significant differences from what I see in the worldwide meta for Approach decks: looking over a few days of reported MTGO 5-0 decks I find only this. These are the mtggoldfish representations of the Approach decks: Esper, Boros, Jeskai and Azorius. A brief scan shows maindeck creatures only in the Boros variant and Glimmer in the remaining U variants.
Thread should relabeled to "Second Sun Decks" or "Approach Decks"
Hobbits, A couple of suggestions. First, your deck looks pretty solid. I would suggest adding 2 Gideon of the Trials mainboard. Having a second win-con has helped me in a lot of games. Maybe cut 1 Search and 1 counter to make room. 10-12 counters seem to be the sweet spot, IMO. In your sideboard, I would suggest running 3 Regals and 2 Champs. Those 5 plus the 3 Authorities should take care of the Red matchup. With the 3 extra slots, you can add 2 gear hulks or Champion of Wits, just find what matches your play style best. That leaves you room for the 3rd Search to bring in against any control deck. Only thing else is maybe swapping the numbers between Settle and Fumigate, but that comes down to personal preference.
For sideboarding; Your red plan looks fine. Against Temur, try - 4 Censor +4 Negate (since you run 4 Opt you should still have plenty of card draw/filtering). If you want to drop Approach for dudes, the -3 Approach, - 2 Fumigates, + 5 dudes. That is very close to what I have been having the most success with. Depending on the player/deck/how I feel, sometimes I just board in the Negates, sometimes I will bring in a bunch of dudes. Also, you can do one for game 2 and then change game 3.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
Currently Playing UW UW Control/Miracles R Skred Red
I am off work this week for vacation, so I am finally having some time to sit down and look at my notes of the last few months. I ran Jeskai Approach with 2 Gideons MB at the GP in Atlanta 2 months ago, finished 5-3-1 to miss making it to day 2 because of one draw. Ran Esper Approach with 2 Gearhulks MB at a local PPTQ to make top 8. Not trying to brag, just letting everyone know that I have played in some bigger events.
<Rant>
1. There is not one way to build Approach. It is basically a one card combo deck that tries to stay alive until it can cast a 7 mana sorcery speed spell twice. Some build a control deck around it, others build creature deck. Do what floats your boat. If someone here offers advice and you don't agree, try to explain why and give suggestions that will help. Just my 2 cents.
2. I feel like 2 creatures mainboard makes a big difference in the deck. For me, those are Gideon of the Trials and Torrential Gearhulk. I run one or the other depending on the rest of the deck. A bunch of games have come down to turn 7-9 I have the board clear and counters/spot removal in my hand but have not draw Approach. So the beatdown plan starts. Or even when I do draw Approach but don't want to tap out to cast it, putting them on a 4-5 turn clock forces them to do something.
3. The spot removal you get from running the 3rd color is worth the issues with running a 3 color mana base. Being able to interact with a creature on turns 1-3 is major. U/W is a very smooth running deck and the mana base is very sweet, but Fatal Push or Harnessed Lightning just wins games. And the added versatility in your sideboard is nice.
4. With all the different versions I have run, if I get mana screwed, I lose. Sitting on 2-3 mana with a hand full of answers that I can't cast is very frustrating. I have tried moving up to 26 lands, that seemed to help. But recently I have started running 4 Opt MB and very pleased with how it has helped. Being able to dig for a land or bury one if I already have plenty in my hand is sweet. The filter effect is very strong. When they first came out, I didn't like them because I thought having 4 more cards that would 'do something' instead would be much better. But since trying to again I have changed my mind.
5. The All Stars of the deck are Search for Azcanta and The Scarab God.
5a. Search just does so much work in a control deck. Before it flips, the scry before each turn lets you filter your hand and after it flips, the draw ability each turn can quickly bury your opponent in card advantage. So far 2 seems the right number main with possible 1 in the side. I have started running 2 Field of Ruin just to kill their flipped searches.
5b. I run Esper mainly for The Scarab God. Game 2, most players will board out their creature hate against us and if they can't deal with him, he will end the game in 2-3 turns. Bring back Gearhulks, Regals and/or Sun champs sometimes just feels dirty.
</Rant>
I have FNM tonight then the LGS store championship tomorrow. Here is the deck list I am planning on running. I have 2 slots in my sideboard that I am not certain what to run yet. Right now, 2 Jace's Defeat are filling those slots. But I am looking at Hostage Taker, Duress, Gonti, Lord of Luxury or Lost Legacy. By adding in some Aether Hubs to my mana base, I could easily run Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh or Vraska, Relic Seeker. Still up in the air. Let me know what you guys think.
Thanks everyone for the thoughtful replies. I will definitely be incorporating the feedback – it is appreciated!
@greyimp: I had 1 Torrential Gearhulk in the mainboard for a while but it never made an impact (probably because it was a 1 of). I eventually moved it out. Based on what you and @pumpmonkey said I’ll move 2 into the main. I’ve played a couple games at home that way and I think it has helped. Similar feedback from @pumpmonkey on the Sunscourge Champion so I’ll cut that number back a bit. . .
@kpal: I will look into the Settle the Wreckage/Fumigate balance. I have games where 3/2 seems the right number and others where 2/3 looks better. Would really like to find a way to have 3/3 of these. . .
@pumpmonkey: I play-tested your deck today. I really like it! The 3 Glimmer of Genius / 1 Pull from Tomorrow pattern is great; late in the game I was drawing 5 rather than 2. I’m going to copy that into my deck. =)
Re: Flex Slot. Have you considered 2 Duress as a pre-2nd Approach deck peek vs. an opponent with blue? Just curious. . .
First off I finally got the disallows and it much better than cancel obviously. Don't know yet if 4 is to much but so far it been great. Next, I took ou a Opt to try out the the second compass and so far Im not happy with it. the first I like alot but once I draw the second one I don't need it or I need to play something else everytime. Im going to continue to test it out for a couple more games and see what happens.
As far for sideboard I think I have to many things for the U/B gift match-up. I have the settle and the fumigates already with gearhulks for the settles in the grave. I can use little more help on the side but I think I have too much. What do u guys think? Also I dont know what to sideboard out against energy decks I have a good idea what to put in I just some help what to sideboard out.
First off I finally got the disallows and it much better than cancel obviously. Don't know yet if 4 is to much but so far it been great. Next, I took ou a Opt to try out the the second compass and so far Im not happy with it. the first I like alot but once I draw the second one I don't need it or I need to play something else everytime. Im going to continue to test it out for a couple more games and see what happens.
As far for sideboard I think I have to many things for the U/B gift match-up. I have the settle and the fumigates already with gearhulks for the settles in the grave. I can use little more help on the side but I think I have too much. What do u guys think? Also I dont know what to sideboard out against energy decks I have a good idea what to put in I just some help what to sideboard out.
I just noticed that you don't run any approaches in the deck, so I think you are missing more win conditions.
Also, if you are not running approach then you don't really need to run Thaumatic Compass, I am big on Compass for approach decks so when I hit 7 land I can tap out for Approach and then flip compass to make sure I can untap a creature and be safe from attack.
Without the need to tap out for Approach you technically don't need to run any compasses main deck, maybe you can run one in the sideboard.
I suggest that you run 4 Essence Scatter main deck, 3 Supreme will, 3 Disallow and 2 Negates. I don't really like Censor in the control and if you have opt to draw a card then you don't need to run censor. I am a big fan of using Essence Scatter on turn 2, and Supreme will or Disallow on turn 3 to counter something so you can roll into turn 4 Settle the wreckage easily.
I don't know what you want to run as another win condition but in my opinion 2 Gearhulks and 1 Planeswalker is not enough, maybe you can run 3 Gearhulks, or another planeswalker or I don't know for sure.
As for sideboarding I have been getting my butt kicked by energy at the last tourney so I am trying to figure out how to beat them as well, because the blue sideboards in Negates and other counters against us, and the black version sideboards in duress. If you want to know what to sideboard out then you should probably take out Opts and Search for Azcanta, you need to be countering their Cubs and Hydras and other spells for the first 3-4 turns so you don't have time to cast search on turn 2 or turn 3, and later than that is not so useful.
Hope this helps, I am going to take a break from playing this deck for the next couple of weeks until Rivals of Ixalan comes out and then I will see if there is anything I can add to this deck and start playing again.
Happy New Year!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"May he who is without mana cast the first spell!"
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Discuss amongst yourselves... Welcome! Moving to Approach thread, because that's how we do it here. You may want to review the structure of the forums and "What Belongs Here" before posting threads in Standard Main. -hoser2
Thanks for ypur help. Do u think small jace might work? What other creatures u think might work. Or you are probably right and wait and see what comes out in Rivals of Ixalan.
Thanks for ypur help. Do u think small jace might work? What other creatures u think might work. Or you are probably right and wait and see what comes out in Rivals of Ixalan.
There is no reason to "wait". If you already have deck, then keep playing. Unless you are bored or need a break. The only planeswalker that is legit good in UW for control is Gideon of the Trials.
I feel like the 'good' Jace isn't a control pw and the starter deck Jace isn't good enough. Too expensive and not enough punch.
Gideon is the only one currently that gets it done and his benefit is it's hard to attack plains walkers right now. Not sure I'd main deck him though. Depends on your meta's speed.
It's too bad there's not enough complexity available in the format right now cuz Vraska feels like a good control plains walker to me but the colors don't support that. Answers need to be better for the threats in the format.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Maximum Effort
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Also Disallow is Cancel 98% of the time.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Main Deck:
6 Island
5 Plains
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Ipnu Rivulet
4 Irrigated Farmland
1 Scavenger Grounds
3 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Fumigate
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Disallow
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Settle the Wreckage
4 Supreme Will
4 Unsummon
4 Cast Out
4 Censor
4 Opt
Sideboard
3 Authority of the Consuls
3 Negate
1 Disallow
3 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Regal Caracal
1 Glyph Keeper
2 Jace's Defeat
Was able to beat the following:
GR Pummeler (2-0)
WR Aggro (2-1)
UB Control (2-1)
RB Aggro (2-1)
Happy to answer questions you guys might have thanks.
As far as sideboard goes I really appreciate the help. I am always bad with the sideboard. That's my weakness right now. I am going to try out the Forsakes, the vizier and the metallurgic summoning sounds interesting and fun.
Thanks a lot for your suggestions and I will let you guys know my results with these changes.
Yeah, I agree that if you play Gearhulk then you should probably play glimmer or hieroglyphic illuminations so you can re-cast it again. However for my version of the deck which doesn't have Gearhulks I want to be able to "search" for the approach so champion of wits is much better in my deck, it also comes out on turn 3 since there's not much else for me to do on that turn and of course once I hit 7 lands I will Eternalize it, which happens almost in every game.
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
<Xaltair, you really shouldn't be giving people advice and you especially shouldn't be giving it without disclaimers.> Your meta (as evidenced in an earlier post) is full of budget decks and homebrews. You seem to reject conventional wisdom with this deck (such as not playing glimmer), but you need to have good reasons to change the deck. Since your deck has no notable results and hasn't been vouched for by any credibly good player, you need to have good reasons for playing it and you certainly shouldn't be presenting it as the 'standard list' - which is implied by the fact that you wrote this primer. Cards like Thaumatic Compass and Vizier of Deferment are good, but to be a legitimate choice in this deck they would have to be better than the other choices, which they aren't. Until you gain any legitimacy as an approach player or even a control player, I would really refrain from helping others unless it's to parrot better player's advice.
Please critique the ideas and not the player. Thanks! -- lugger
To the mods, I believe that someone else should take over the first post.
Have a few cents to put into your build and advice you've gotten.
Plainswalkers are premium cards that should not be discounted out of hand. Not all of them are good or work well with control, however many of them are gamecrushers and you should always take a look at the good ones in your colors. See Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy to name some recent ballers.
Glad to see you chose to stick with Glimmer. Whether you play Confiscation Coup or not the Scry 2 has immense value keeping you in the correct options in every matchup. Obviously if you're more cycling oriented you'd choose Hieroglyphic Illumination over it but your current build doesn't warrant that as I see it.
Disallow over Cancel every time!
When it comes to Essence Scatter and Negate you really need to look at your LGS' meta. If there's a lot of control expected sure some negates main can be key. Scatter has it's benefits but with the speed of the top tier decks (if you can expect any of them) a full suite is going to bog you down and you'll wish you had an opt early on instead to guarantee that next land drop or further filter your deck for a sweeper/Cast Out you need to answer a problem.
Thaumatic Compass is cute but the deeper you go on that type of Strat the more you weaken your 'land go' equilibrium and open yourself to losses from fast low to the ground creature decks. Mana sink? Sure, but do you have the mana/time to mess with the thing and is it the most expedient to keeping yourself in the game? I recommend testing against Ramred and Temur energy to get a feel for how if you miss a beat it will cost you the game early, and how the resilient Strats can recover from that sweeper making you pay for missing just one land drop, or that land that has to come out tapped.
This is why many UW players choose Opt and Censor builds to completely disrupt the early aggression and hit lands to get safely into the 4+ mana range of your sweepers.
Alternate win cons out of the side really are where knowing your local game store's meta will shine for you and you can be flexible with cards like Kefnet, plains walkers that aren't perhaps premium, and fun cards you simply want to jam. Never forget to have fun!
My best recommendation for your build would be to drop the Jace and Compass for x2 Approach of the Second Sun or at the very least put them in your board to surprise in game 2. It really is a hard wincon to deal with these days and if they're not running blue the cannot stop you short of black digging them all out of your deck with the sub-par Lost Legacy
I like using enchantment based removal over real spot removal, my version kept a lock on the board and made my Fumigates that much better. I see a lot of Approach players lean on this win con too much in the mtgo leagues. It becomes easy to disrupt and early pressure backed by cards like Spell Pierce are devastating. This is one of the reasons I used sub par cards like Aethermelt down to mitigate tempo loss and effect the board. Jeskai was the last variation I played and it was a blast. Like SLAM DUNK energy match ups and mono black but that deck has a really hard time against the wave of Gift decks that came after the PT.
Esper was a deck I wanted to try but I jumped on energy (I just wanted to learn the "hated" deck, so that I would know how to attack it).
On Opt I like this card in Jeskai, and in some UW Builds. I think Esper has much better things to T1-T3, it has Push and Censor to help it there so Opt isn't that essential to that build.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I've been playing this deck successfully for the past 3-4 months and have made changes to it during that time which I have posted on this thread to help other players try new things.
You have no idea what my meta is like and the fact that I can win with it means that the deck is good and I'm a good enough player to beat different players every month. I have only managed to play tourneys about twice a month since October due to being busy.
There is no "standard list" for this deck or "legitimate" choices. I have tested this deck for many months and in my opinion and in my version of this deck champion of wits is better than glimmer of genius. I started playing this deck 6 months ago with glimmer of genius main deck and only when I changed to a creature approach to be able to defeat aggro decks in the first game did I take out glimmer and added the champions instead.
The reason I have been winning games is not that my opponents suck but because Thaumatic Compass is a bomb, and if you actually played a few games with it you'd realize that too.
It's fine if you don't want to play some cards and want to play netdecks that the pro's play at PTQ's but don't come here to complain that this version of the deck is not good just because you don't understand the synergy of the cards in the deck and have likely never played this version ever in your life. Also, I've been playing Magic and control decks for about 20 years now, so I don't think I am a good control player, I know I am a good control player, I'm also a good enough deck builder that I don't have to "parrot" or copy other people to have a successful deck.
Last but not least I was one of the original people to create the Ramunap Red deck (using about 75% of the cards that made the deck famous, including the deserts) way back in June of this year, right before Hour of Devastation came out, and I have the archived thread on this website with the decklist to prove that. So, I could say that the players using that deck in major tourneys probably stole the idea and cards from me since I was the first one to post the deck with using the Sunscorched Desert maindeck, and with that deck I also beat a lot of people at my LGS back in June/July of this year.
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
1. You posted a tournament report from a FNM where I gathered that your meta had more homebrews than legitimate decks. You claim to be 'good enough to beat different players' but those players are hamstringing themselves.
2. There certainly is a standard list for this deck, as established by decks that have put up tournament results. Your version has not put up any.
3. I'll give you that; Thaumatic Compass is a decent card and there's a chance that it could be an overlooked bomb. However, don't pretend as if you're playing against good players. You've already proven that you aren't.
4. The 'netdecks' are better than your brews, evidenced by the fact that your brew hasn't put up any results outside of your FNM. If you've been playing control decks for 20 years, where are your results? what tournaments have you won?
5. Plenty of people independently thought of the ramunap red deck (each pro tour team, plenty of individual players). If your deck was only 75% accurate to a good list, then it was clearly untuned. Even if you are good at coming up with deck ideas, that's not what we're discussing here; we're discussing fine-tuning an established list.
This thread exists to share ideas. Not all ideas/comments are going to be brilliant (Xaltair, Planeswalkers are freaking amazing and changed the game in a major way and you just have to get on board with that fact), but often the idea that significantly changes things was dismissed out of hand by someone else (Mooster, Thaumatic Compass is absolutely a bomb -- at least in the control mirror. So is Kefnet. I even run one in energy decks). Let's try to keep the comments about the decks and debate ideas, not the people who have them. Who knows, maybe we'll start a trend and the quality of political discourse in broader society will improve too...okay, maybe not. But at least we can be civil to each other here.
Happy New Year!
TLDR: Thread is for both the OP deck and more proven variants (my fault, don't blame the thread originator). Can we please make this work for everybody?
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I've been quietly following this thread for the past couple of months; started MTG a few months ago and gravitated to UW Approach. This thread has helped me a ton: thank you to everyone who has taken the time to contribute.
I'm running a pretty generic build: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/463-uw-approach. I tried Esper but the mana felt awkward (the early game and Scarab God moments were great however).
Still refining the sideboard but generally I try to turn into a creature deck with wraths. Something like:
Ramunap
-3 Search
-4 Glimmer
-3 Approach
-1 Fumigate
+3 Authority
+4 Sunscourge
+4 Regal
Temur
-4 Opt
-3 Search
-2 Supreme Will
-2 Glimmer
-1 Fumigate
-3 Approach
+15 Sideboard
FNM has been going reasonably well but the quality of decks is pretty inconsistent at times. Anyway, if anyone has specific thoughts would welcome the feedback.
Thanks!
Granted Authority is a huge help against Glorybringer but you need to have the right cards in hand!
Did you choose zero Torrential Gearhulk in the side for any particular reason? I understand going really creature heavy and life gain and while I really like Sunscourge Champion you might cut at least one of them for a Torrential. I also wouldn't cut Fumigate even with creatures because their creatures go over you or right through you as even a cub gets far larger than you might be able to handle with a few blocks and no draw. Maybe another Settle the Wreakage in the board to bring you to 3 is also a good idea. Nothing worse than continuing to draw Authority late game when you need gas, so I prefer 3 total no matter when you use them.
I've worked and tested with Sunscourge Champion a lot and while I like it, I find it and even the recurring life gain anemic unless I'm really all in on life gain. Champion of Wits should be a consideration since the full hand really does do the work for you and even when you sweep it's much better out of the GY. (Temur matchup of course as Sunscourge is better vs red for sure).
I've also found that just Regal x3 serves it's purpose against Red without sunscourge.
Good luck!
Get yourself a pair of Scavenger Grounds. Gift decks are brutal!
Settle the Wreckage is a key card in our deck. Have at least 3x main. No less.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
C Long Live Eldrazi C
For sideboarding; Your red plan looks fine. Against Temur, try - 4 Censor +4 Negate (since you run 4 Opt you should still have plenty of card draw/filtering). If you want to drop Approach for dudes, the -3 Approach, - 2 Fumigates, + 5 dudes. That is very close to what I have been having the most success with. Depending on the player/deck/how I feel, sometimes I just board in the Negates, sometimes I will bring in a bunch of dudes. Also, you can do one for game 2 and then change game 3.
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
<Rant>
1. There is not one way to build Approach. It is basically a one card combo deck that tries to stay alive until it can cast a 7 mana sorcery speed spell twice. Some build a control deck around it, others build creature deck. Do what floats your boat. If someone here offers advice and you don't agree, try to explain why and give suggestions that will help. Just my 2 cents.
2. I feel like 2 creatures mainboard makes a big difference in the deck. For me, those are Gideon of the Trials and Torrential Gearhulk. I run one or the other depending on the rest of the deck. A bunch of games have come down to turn 7-9 I have the board clear and counters/spot removal in my hand but have not draw Approach. So the beatdown plan starts. Or even when I do draw Approach but don't want to tap out to cast it, putting them on a 4-5 turn clock forces them to do something.
3. The spot removal you get from running the 3rd color is worth the issues with running a 3 color mana base. Being able to interact with a creature on turns 1-3 is major. U/W is a very smooth running deck and the mana base is very sweet, but Fatal Push or Harnessed Lightning just wins games. And the added versatility in your sideboard is nice.
4. With all the different versions I have run, if I get mana screwed, I lose. Sitting on 2-3 mana with a hand full of answers that I can't cast is very frustrating. I have tried moving up to 26 lands, that seemed to help. But recently I have started running 4 Opt MB and very pleased with how it has helped. Being able to dig for a land or bury one if I already have plenty in my hand is sweet. The filter effect is very strong. When they first came out, I didn't like them because I thought having 4 more cards that would 'do something' instead would be much better. But since trying to again I have changed my mind.
5. The All Stars of the deck are Search for Azcanta and The Scarab God.
5a. Search just does so much work in a control deck. Before it flips, the scry before each turn lets you filter your hand and after it flips, the draw ability each turn can quickly bury your opponent in card advantage. So far 2 seems the right number main with possible 1 in the side. I have started running 2 Field of Ruin just to kill their flipped searches.
5b. I run Esper mainly for The Scarab God. Game 2, most players will board out their creature hate against us and if they can't deal with him, he will end the game in 2-3 turns. Bring back Gearhulks, Regals and/or Sun champs sometimes just feels dirty.
</Rant>
I have FNM tonight then the LGS store championship tomorrow. Here is the deck list I am planning on running. I have 2 slots in my sideboard that I am not certain what to run yet. Right now, 2 Jace's Defeat are filling those slots. But I am looking at Hostage Taker, Duress, Gonti, Lord of Luxury or Lost Legacy. By adding in some Aether Hubs to my mana base, I could easily run Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh or Vraska, Relic Seeker. Still up in the air. Let me know what you guys think.
3 Approach of the Second Sun
2 Torrential Gearhulk
Draw
4 Opt
3 Glimmer of Genius
1 Pull From Tomorrow
Counter
3 Censor
4 Disallow
3 Supreme Will
Removal
4 Fatal Push
2 Vraska's Contempt
3 Settle the Wreckage
2 Fumigate
2 Search for Azcanta
Land
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Drowned Catacomb
2 Field of Ruin
3 Fetid Pools
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Irrigated Farmland
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Negate
3 Regal Caracal
2 Sunscrouge Champion
2 The Scarab God
1 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Vraska's Contempt
2 Jace's Defeat
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
@greyimp: I had 1 Torrential Gearhulk in the mainboard for a while but it never made an impact (probably because it was a 1 of). I eventually moved it out. Based on what you and @pumpmonkey said I’ll move 2 into the main. I’ve played a couple games at home that way and I think it has helped. Similar feedback from @pumpmonkey on the Sunscourge Champion so I’ll cut that number back a bit. . .
@kpal: I will look into the Settle the Wreckage/Fumigate balance. I have games where 3/2 seems the right number and others where 2/3 looks better. Would really like to find a way to have 3/3 of these. . .
@pumpmonkey: I play-tested your deck today. I really like it! The 3 Glimmer of Genius / 1 Pull from Tomorrow pattern is great; late in the game I was drawing 5 rather than 2. I’m going to copy that into my deck. =)
Re: Flex Slot. Have you considered 2 Duress as a pre-2nd Approach deck peek vs. an opponent with blue? Just curious. . .
Hope everyone’s FNM is going well!
~ Hobbits
Im been playing mostly on MTGO due to Im been slammed at work with mandatory overtime. Its the holidays and here at Disney it gets crazy.
I changed minor things to the deck:
Lands
1x Field of Ruin
1x Hostile Desert
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Irrigated Farmland
1x Ipnu Rivulet
6x Island
6x Plains
Creatures
2x Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalker
1x Jace, Ingenious Mind
Artifact
2x Thaumatic Compass
Spells
3x Opt
4x Censor
4x Cast Out
3x Glimmer of Genius
3x Essence Scatter
3x Disallow
3x Settle the Wreckage
3x Fumigate
2x Supreme Will
2x Search for Azcanta
Sideboard
3x Authority of the Consuls
3x Regal Caracal
3x Negate
2x Crook of Condemnation
3x Forsake the Worldy
1x Jace's Defeat
The changes I've made was
-1 Ipnu Rivulet
-1 Opt
-1 Supreme WIll
-3 Cancel
+1 Scavenger Grounds
+4 Disallow
+1 Thaumatic Compass
First off I finally got the disallows and it much better than cancel obviously. Don't know yet if 4 is to much but so far it been great. Next, I took ou a Opt to try out the the second compass and so far Im not happy with it. the first I like alot but once I draw the second one I don't need it or I need to play something else everytime. Im going to continue to test it out for a couple more games and see what happens.
As far for sideboard I think I have to many things for the U/B gift match-up. I have the settle and the fumigates already with gearhulks for the settles in the grave. I can use little more help on the side but I think I have too much. What do u guys think? Also I dont know what to sideboard out against energy decks I have a good idea what to put in I just some help what to sideboard out.
I just noticed that you don't run any approaches in the deck, so I think you are missing more win conditions.
Also, if you are not running approach then you don't really need to run Thaumatic Compass, I am big on Compass for approach decks so when I hit 7 land I can tap out for Approach and then flip compass to make sure I can untap a creature and be safe from attack.
Without the need to tap out for Approach you technically don't need to run any compasses main deck, maybe you can run one in the sideboard.
I suggest that you run 4 Essence Scatter main deck, 3 Supreme will, 3 Disallow and 2 Negates. I don't really like Censor in the control and if you have opt to draw a card then you don't need to run censor. I am a big fan of using Essence Scatter on turn 2, and Supreme will or Disallow on turn 3 to counter something so you can roll into turn 4 Settle the wreckage easily.
I don't know what you want to run as another win condition but in my opinion 2 Gearhulks and 1 Planeswalker is not enough, maybe you can run 3 Gearhulks, or another planeswalker or I don't know for sure.
As for sideboarding I have been getting my butt kicked by energy at the last tourney so I am trying to figure out how to beat them as well, because the blue sideboards in Negates and other counters against us, and the black version sideboards in duress. If you want to know what to sideboard out then you should probably take out Opts and Search for Azcanta, you need to be countering their Cubs and Hydras and other spells for the first 3-4 turns so you don't have time to cast search on turn 2 or turn 3, and later than that is not so useful.
Hope this helps, I am going to take a break from playing this deck for the next couple of weeks until Rivals of Ixalan comes out and then I will see if there is anything I can add to this deck and start playing again.
Happy New Year!
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
Welcome! Moving to Approach thread, because that's how we do it here. You may want to review the structure of the forums and "What Belongs Here" before posting threads in Standard Main. -hoser2
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Gideon is the only one currently that gets it done and his benefit is it's hard to attack plains walkers right now. Not sure I'd main deck him though. Depends on your meta's speed.
It's too bad there's not enough complexity available in the format right now cuz Vraska feels like a good control plains walker to me but the colors don't support that. Answers need to be better for the threats in the format.