Round 1 blew out a green/blue deck
1-1-1 vs Saprolings. Game 1 I didn't have enough threats, game 2 whirler did what he's supposed to do against a tokens deck. We barely started Game 3 when time was called
2-1 vs Knights -
When I won, spot removal was key. Saw History of Benalia a few times but killed 1 or both tokens before it went off.
Sided in 2 Spit Flame, 3rd Abrade, Glorybringer and Chandra - sided out Kari Zev and Bomat Courier. Bomat is horrible against 2/2s, Kari Zev might've been OK but recurring removal seemed better and was.
Lost Game 2, Settle the Wreckage got 4 creatures - Hazoret, Whirler and 2 Soul-Scar Mage. in general attacking with unpumped SSM doesn't seem worth it even if it seems like a free 1 damage, I might've been better able to recover if I had kept those on the field. The previous turn he had mana to pump Resplendent Angel but didn't so I knew he had some sort of combat trick - I had suspected spot removal like Cast Out or Seal Away rather than a sweeper.
Getting a -1/-1 counter on an Angel so it didn't get big enough to make a token amused me.
Game 3 opening hand had 2 Chandra and I promptly drew a 3rd - didn't seem so excessive when he killed 1 with combat damage and Vraska's Contempted the 2nd
"I'm sorry, John, I'm afraid I can't let you do that." I said as I killed yet another Knight of Grace.
1. mono red goblins. go wide and turn creatures sideways.
2. mono red burn. wizard subtheme for Wizard's Lightning backed by support creatures like Guttersnipe and enchantment like Flame of Keld
3. Boros aggro. splash white for bad-ass cards like Swiftblade Vindicator.
i know some players at the LGS who are into Goblins and they do get to the top 3 of Standard showdown from time to time. last Saturday, i borrowed a mono red hazored deck (i didn't bring mine) to playtest with a friend with post rotation mono red Wizards and i am impressed that he managed to beat me 5/7 times. as for Boros aggro, the power level is there but color consistency is a problem to be solved.
Papa Thor, I have had fun with a pre-rotation Goblins deck on Arena and hope it gets better with Guilds, but those Path to Mettle and Swiftblade Vindicator are just waiting for someone to figure out a sweet Boros aggro deck.
Papa Thor, I have had fun with a pre-rotation Goblins deck on Arena and hope it gets better with Guilds, but those Path to Mettle and Swiftblade Vindicator are just waiting for someone to figure out a sweet Boros aggro deck.
Path of Mettle and Swiftblade Vindicator are powerful cards, no doubt. however, my concern is G/x Stompy, and i am unsure if Boros has the means to beat it unless one uses Aurelia and Lyra as top end to get past the defenders.
one solution i found is to go burn route to bypass their creatures.
with 40+ points of burn damage (not counting bonus damage from Flame of Keld) i think the deck's got some serious reach. i mentioned previously, Hazored that i piloted was soundly beaten but post rotation Wizards+Flame of Keld deck. when i learned that Runaway Steam-Kin grows to 4 power even with creature spells, i knew i found my 2 drop. it can also ramp up the deck to enable me to dump cards so that Flame of Keld could come down earlier.
post board, i think replacing Chainwhirler with Guttersnipe is the way to go vs Stompy by going on a more controlling route with additional removal from the SB.
Also, he doesn't play risk factor which is arguably the best red spell in the new standard format.
from what i've been reading, there's still some debate on whether or not Risk Factor is good enough for constructed play. i think either side is good for an aggro/burn deck. it is true that there may be times when the opponent is down to 4 and you want a burn spell in hand but you have Risk Factor instead. you may not be able to burn your opponent that turn, but maybe the cards you'd draw will finish the job.
Why would you think 20 lands isn't enough when your curve tops out at 3? It is arguably to much land. I would rather be at 19 with that curve.
my reasoning is that i'd want to dump my hand as fast as possible for Flame of Keld, and i fear 19-20 lands just won't do it.
but just to confirm my gut feeling, i checked Frank Karsten's guide on how many lands to put in, and found that for a deck such as Seth's which has an average CMC of 1.88, Frank Karsten recommends having 22 lands.
now, Wizard's Lightning on that deck may cost just 1 mana, lowering the curve to 1.68, to which Frank recommends 21 lands.
present Wizards Flame of keld decks have an even lower CMC, allowing them to go with 20 lands.
with key 1 CMC pieces rotating out (Bomat Courier and Soul-Scar Mage) Wizards Flame of Keld decks needs more lands to cope with a higher curve
the mono R list is very similar to mine. good to know that i'm on the right track. can't wait to get into the first Standard Constructed FNM this season to test the deck myself.
the mono R list is very similar to mine. good to know that i'm on the right track. can't wait to get into the first Standard Constructed FNM this season to test the deck myself.
As I said in its own thread, risk factor will fit in every deck running red and probably rule the early standard format.
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Yea...Risk factor sounds like the real deal. It may not look like much at 3 mana, but the fact that it punishes people doing 4 to the face or draw 3 cards is important. Not only that it can be jumpstarted. So unless the enemy counters it and cuts off your ability to use the graveyard. Very good chance you will get what you want.
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the mono R list is very similar to mine. good to know that i'm on the right track. can't wait to get into the first Standard Constructed FNM this season to test the deck myself.
As I said in its own thread, risk factor will fit in every deck running red and probably rule the early standard format.
i managed to get 3 copies a few hours ago. i reckon that's enough, since 4 of them seems overkill.
Steam Kin also seems to be a hit. its price is steadily rising up. better get a set asap, guys.
the mono R list is very similar to mine. good to know that i'm on the right track. can't wait to get into the first Standard Constructed FNM this season to test the deck myself.
The flame of keld and wizard themes are existing variants of this deck, not sure if that's bad/good or just different compared to mine.
Runaway Steam-Kin could replace Chandra's +1: Add RR. Ral, Izzet Viceroy replaces Chandra's other abilities.
Yea...Risk factor sounds like the real deal. It may not look like much at 3 mana, but the fact that it punishes people doing 4 to the face or draw 3 cards is important. Not only that it can be jumpstarted. So unless the enemy counters it and cuts off your ability to use the graveyard. Very good chance you will get what you want.
Risk Factor sounds great as it either finds gas or is gas itself, and can be recurred - that helps pressure the opponent into choosing between bad and worse rather than one choice they can brush off.
-
If I go Izzet (note Ral above), lots of good options for spells. Wee Dragonauts with Sure Strike would be like the Psychotic Fury synergy from OG Ravnica block, but is that too nostalgic/gimmicky? A Limited trick that wouldn’t work in Constructed?
I've long since thought of Verix Bladewing as a Glorybringer substitute. That would work well with Spit Flame which I already like. Skizzik or Charging Monstrosaur could fill in for various beaters.
More Rekindling Phoenix?
The Torch Gob offers interesting hasty attacks from 3&4 drops. Integrity pumps the early game.
I didn't find room for Risk Factor, mostly because I feel the card works when you're Blitz aggro or Burn aggro. I don't want to cast this spell when my opponent is at 10+ life, or when I don't couple it with either Guttersnipe or Electrostatic Field.
That list was inspired by the Boros aggro deck featuring Integrity + Swiftblade Vindicator, quite a combo.
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i agree that Run Amok is strictly better than Sure Strike. RA can also protect your creatures from damage-based removal after it attacks, which is when people remove creatures anyway.
a friend sent me this link to Jim Davis's video featuring Keld Red. it's 2 hours long so i'll summarize it for you guys:
1. Jim is ecstatic about Steam Kin, but dislikes Flame of Keld. he hates it with a passion, in fact.
2. he noted that Risk Factor is so good with Steam Kin.
3. every other card seems fine.
4. Experimental Frenzy helped him deal 16 damage on turn 5.
5. he went 3-2, lost to Jeskai Control and Steel Leaf Stompy.
there's also another 5-0 result from Oct 4 Competitive League, this time with all 4 FoK and Risk Factor. only 20 lands.
so it seems there's still no consensus on what is the best configuration of a mono red deck.
two things are for sure, though: Runaway Steam Kin is the real deal, and Risk Factor is a playable punisher card.
maybe just adjust the deck to your local meta. too many mono red aggro? play Dire Fleet Daredevil so you can get tempo advantage. filled with G/X decks? mainboard Lava Coil and/or Fight with Fire. dominated by control? play more threats.
i playtested a while ago and i agree with Jim Davis: Steam Kin's a busted card. i was able to "storm" off several times. Risk Factor's nice too.
and surprisingly, Flame of Keld really under-performed. everytime i had it in my hand i wished it was a different card.
what would i change? i think remove 3x FoK and 2 Mountains to bring the land count to 20 and then replace FoK with 1 or 2 CMC creature. which creature i do not know for certain yet. Goblin Banneret?
There's not much other choice than Banneret. Torch Courier is nice with stuff like Rek Phoenix and Aurelia, but in a low curve aggro it doesn't make sense. Banneret may have some nice turns when Steam-Kin has some mana to give away too.
Honestly I feel like Rekindling Phoenix is a great card for the deck, and if it's not because of Lava Coil&cie in the format, then Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice could be better. It gives Steam-Kin and Chainwhirler trample and more power to the useless-in-combat 1&2-drops, very nice to race green decks.
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I've been playing a red/white boros mentor aggro build on MTG arena and I've been surprised by how much work Dual Shot has done. It picks off elves in Green Stompy, it kills early blockers to your threats like Glowspore Shaman, or does the last point of damage to multiple creatures in combat. I only run two, but they have been clutch in a lot of matchups. Also having a ton of success with Heroic Reinforcements. This has closed out so many games. Healer's Hawk has also been surprisingly effective.
Also Tajic, Aurelia, Warboss, Lightning Strike, Justice Strike, History of Benalia, and Rekindling Phoenix, but we already knew about these.
Planning on trying the following list, which is a bit different than what is going around. Am intrigued by the Torch Courier/Adanto Vanguard turn 2 play to help get opponents life down enough so that they can't afford to choose damage when it comes to Risk Factor later in the game. The more aggressive play also makes Demanding Dragon the best choice for our 5 drop over Lyra. I'm thinking the same when it comes to turn 4, I want something with haste that can possibly get in right away once why I chose Arclight over Rekindling Phoenix. Clarion/Tajic is also a nice trick to have.
that could certainly work. fliers are G/B's weakness. but if you wish to really put a beating on G/B (if they are prevalent in your local meta) put a few Tocatli Honor Guard in your sideboard to prevent ETB effects.
Yes, I knew I was forgetting something. I also am looking forward to trying Suncleanser for some of the exploring creatures in Golgari since it also survives Deafening Clarion.
For those who play the regular mono red list, how do you sideboard against Golgari? We side in Rekindling Phoenix obviously, and probably any Frenzy/Risk Factor we have, plus the extra land to go with that, but I'm not sure what we take out. The low end of the curve because we get stonewalked so quickly on the ground? And do we also side in removal, like maybe Lava Coil for Wildgrowth Walker? Or do we rather want to stay streamlined and avoid siding into an inferiour midrange deck? I mean we can't go under them anyway, right? Answer enough of their stuff to give us time to burn them out, I guess?
4 Risk Factor is too many since especially with jumpstart and/or situations when 4 damage is harmless. I’ve never found anything to do with Dire Fleet Daredevil, so I’ll cut it. Artifacts haven’t been a huge threat so I may reconsider Cratermaker. I used it to replace Abrade but 1 to 1 card changes might not be the best response to rotation.
Arclight’s haste sometimes seems better than Rekindling’s less conditional resurrection. Steam-Kin is boss especially since it triggers on cast, and removing 3 counters for 3 mana to cast another red spell essentially costs only 2 counters.
Enigma Drake for similarity to Crackling Drake seems obvious. Against non-weenie decks, ‘Whirler does little, and the drakes also have a big body, so maybe I’ll sideboard ‘Whirler.
Round 1 blew out a green/blue deck
1-1-1 vs Saprolings. Game 1 I didn't have enough threats, game 2 whirler did what he's supposed to do against a tokens deck. We barely started Game 3 when time was called
2-1 vs Knights -
When I won, spot removal was key. Saw History of Benalia a few times but killed 1 or both tokens before it went off.
Sided in 2 Spit Flame, 3rd Abrade, Glorybringer and Chandra - sided out Kari Zev and Bomat Courier. Bomat is horrible against 2/2s, Kari Zev might've been OK but recurring removal seemed better and was.
Lost Game 2, Settle the Wreckage got 4 creatures - Hazoret, Whirler and 2 Soul-Scar Mage. in general attacking with unpumped SSM doesn't seem worth it even if it seems like a free 1 damage, I might've been better able to recover if I had kept those on the field. The previous turn he had mana to pump Resplendent Angel but didn't so I knew he had some sort of combat trick - I had suspected spot removal like Cast Out or Seal Away rather than a sweeper.
Getting a -1/-1 counter on an Angel so it didn't get big enough to make a token amused me.
Game 3 opening hand had 2 Chandra and I promptly drew a 3rd - didn't seem so excessive when he killed 1 with combat damage and Vraska's Contempted the 2nd
"I'm sorry, John, I'm afraid I can't let you do that." I said as I killed yet another Knight of Grace.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
1. mono red goblins. go wide and turn creatures sideways.
2. mono red burn. wizard subtheme for Wizard's Lightning backed by support creatures like Guttersnipe and enchantment like Flame of Keld
3. Boros aggro. splash white for bad-ass cards like Swiftblade Vindicator.
i know some players at the LGS who are into Goblins and they do get to the top 3 of Standard showdown from time to time. last Saturday, i borrowed a mono red hazored deck (i didn't bring mine) to playtest with a friend with post rotation mono red Wizards and i am impressed that he managed to beat me 5/7 times. as for Boros aggro, the power level is there but color consistency is a problem to be solved.
what do you think, guys? which camp are you on?
Path of Mettle and Swiftblade Vindicator are powerful cards, no doubt. however, my concern is G/x Stompy, and i am unsure if Boros has the means to beat it unless one uses Aurelia and Lyra as top end to get past the defenders.
one solution i found is to go burn route to bypass their creatures.
4 Fanatical Firebrand
4 Ghitu Lavarunner
4 Runaway Steam-Kin
4 Viashino Pyromancer
4 Goblin Chainwhirler
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
3 Risk Factor
3 The Flame of Keld
4 Wizard's Lightning
22 Mountain
3 Banefire
4 Lava Coil
4 Fight with Fire
4 Guttersnipe
with 40+ points of burn damage (not counting bonus damage from Flame of Keld) i think the deck's got some serious reach. i mentioned previously, Hazored that i piloted was soundly beaten but post rotation Wizards+Flame of Keld deck. when i learned that Runaway Steam-Kin grows to 4 power even with creature spells, i knew i found my 2 drop. it can also ramp up the deck to enable me to dump cards so that Flame of Keld could come down earlier.
post board, i think replacing Chainwhirler with Guttersnipe is the way to go vs Stompy by going on a more controlling route with additional removal from the SB.
4 Fanatical Firebrand
4 Ghitu Lavarunner
4 Goblin Chainwhirler
2 Guttersnipe
2 Rigging Runner
4 Runaway Steam-Kin
4 Viashino Pyromancer
4 Lightning Strike
2 Shock
3 The Flame of Keld
3 Warlord's Fury
4 Wizard's Lightning
20 Mountain
i think 20 lands is too few, though.
Also, he doesn't play risk factor which is arguably the best red spell in the new standard format.
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from what i've been reading, there's still some debate on whether or not Risk Factor is good enough for constructed play. i think either side is good for an aggro/burn deck. it is true that there may be times when the opponent is down to 4 and you want a burn spell in hand but you have Risk Factor instead. you may not be able to burn your opponent that turn, but maybe the cards you'd draw will finish the job.
and that's the risk in playing Risk Factor.
my reasoning is that i'd want to dump my hand as fast as possible for Flame of Keld, and i fear 19-20 lands just won't do it.
but just to confirm my gut feeling, i checked Frank Karsten's guide on how many lands to put in, and found that for a deck such as Seth's which has an average CMC of 1.88, Frank Karsten recommends having 22 lands.
now, Wizard's Lightning on that deck may cost just 1 mana, lowering the curve to 1.68, to which Frank recommends 21 lands.
present Wizards Flame of keld decks have an even lower CMC, allowing them to go with 20 lands.
with key 1 CMC pieces rotating out (Bomat Courier and Soul-Scar Mage) Wizards Flame of Keld decks needs more lands to cope with a higher curve
at least, that's what i conclude.
the mono R list is very similar to mine. good to know that i'm on the right track. can't wait to get into the first Standard Constructed FNM this season to test the deck myself.
As I said in its own thread, risk factor will fit in every deck running red and probably rule the early standard format.
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i managed to get 3 copies a few hours ago. i reckon that's enough, since 4 of them seems overkill.
Steam Kin also seems to be a hit. its price is steadily rising up. better get a set asap, guys.
The flame of keld and wizard themes are existing variants of this deck, not sure if that's bad/good or just different compared to mine.
Runaway Steam-Kin could replace Chandra's +1: Add RR. Ral, Izzet Viceroy replaces Chandra's other abilities.
Risk Factor sounds great as it either finds gas or is gas itself, and can be recurred - that helps pressure the opponent into choosing between bad and worse rather than one choice they can brush off.
-
If I go Izzet (note Ral above), lots of good options for spells. Wee Dragonauts with Sure Strike would be like the Psychotic Fury synergy from OG Ravnica block, but is that too nostalgic/gimmicky? A Limited trick that wouldn’t work in Constructed?
I've long since thought of Verix Bladewing as a Glorybringer substitute. That would work well with Spit Flame which I already like. Skizzik or Charging Monstrosaur could fill in for various beaters.
More Rekindling Phoenix?
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Run Amok will be better, no ?
I've been working on different approchaes of Rx, and here's a Big Red variation :
4 Torch Courier
4 Runaway Steam-Kin
4 Goblin Chainwhirler
4 Rekindling Phoenix
2 Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice
4 Lightning Strike
2 Response // Resurgence
2 Lava Coil
2 Shock
1 Banefire
4 Clifftop Retreat
1 Plains
14 Mountain
The Torch Gob offers interesting hasty attacks from 3&4 drops. Integrity pumps the early game.
I didn't find room for Risk Factor, mostly because I feel the card works when you're Blitz aggro or Burn aggro. I don't want to cast this spell when my opponent is at 10+ life, or when I don't couple it with either Guttersnipe or Electrostatic Field.
That list was inspired by the Boros aggro deck featuring Integrity + Swiftblade Vindicator, quite a combo.
a friend sent me this link to Jim Davis's video featuring Keld Red. it's 2 hours long so i'll summarize it for you guys:
1. Jim is ecstatic about Steam Kin, but dislikes Flame of Keld. he hates it with a passion, in fact.
2. he noted that Risk Factor is so good with Steam Kin.
3. every other card seems fine.
4. Experimental Frenzy helped him deal 16 damage on turn 5.
5. he went 3-2, lost to Jeskai Control and Steel Leaf Stompy.
there's also another 5-0 result from Oct 4 Competitive League, this time with all 4 FoK and Risk Factor. only 20 lands.
so it seems there's still no consensus on what is the best configuration of a mono red deck.
two things are for sure, though: Runaway Steam Kin is the real deal, and Risk Factor is a playable punisher card.
maybe just adjust the deck to your local meta. too many mono red aggro? play Dire Fleet Daredevil so you can get tempo advantage. filled with G/X decks? mainboard Lava Coil and/or Fight with Fire. dominated by control? play more threats.
and surprisingly, Flame of Keld really under-performed. everytime i had it in my hand i wished it was a different card.
what would i change? i think remove 3x FoK and 2 Mountains to bring the land count to 20 and then replace FoK with 1 or 2 CMC creature. which creature i do not know for certain yet. Goblin Banneret?
Honestly I feel like Rekindling Phoenix is a great card for the deck, and if it's not because of Lava Coil&cie in the format, then Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice could be better. It gives Steam-Kin and Chainwhirler trample and more power to the useless-in-combat 1&2-drops, very nice to race green decks.
Also Tajic, Aurelia, Warboss, Lightning Strike, Justice Strike, History of Benalia, and Rekindling Phoenix, but we already knew about these.
First come, first serve.
Thanks,
Lugger
4 Adanto Vanguard
4 Torch Courier
2 Legion Warboss
3 Boros Challenger
3 Arclight Phoenix
3 Tajic, Legion's Edge
3 Demanding Dragon
Land
12 Mountain
4 Plains
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Lightning Strike
2 Shock
3 Justice Strike
3 Risk Factor
Sorcery
3 Deafening Clarion
2 Suncleanser
4 Knight of Grace
2 Ixalan's Binding
3 Seal Away
2 Conclave Tribunal
2 Fight with Fire
And how does the matchup feel in general?
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
5 Island
10 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
Creature (16)
2 Arclight Phoenix
4 Crackling Drake
4 Goblin Chainwhirler
2 Rekindling Phoenix
4 Runaway Steam-Kin
3 Lava Coil
Instant (16)
4 Ionize
4 Lightning Strike
4 Risk Factor
4 Shock
Planeswalker (2)
2 Ral, Izzet Viceroy
1 Arclight Phoenix
1 Dire Fleet Daredevil
4 Fight with Fire
4 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Lava Coil
1 Ral, Izzet Viceroy
3 Selective Snare
I went Izzet instead. I still have a strong matchup against other aggro and can outrace combo but fall apart to control. I like Sinister Sabotage or Devious Cover-Up (since they counter anything), in blue also Unexplained Disappearance or Chemister’s Insight.
4 Risk Factor is too many since especially with jumpstart and/or situations when 4 damage is harmless. I’ve never found anything to do with Dire Fleet Daredevil, so I’ll cut it. Artifacts haven’t been a huge threat so I may reconsider Cratermaker. I used it to replace Abrade but 1 to 1 card changes might not be the best response to rotation.
Arclight’s haste sometimes seems better than Rekindling’s less conditional resurrection. Steam-Kin is boss especially since it triggers on cast, and removing 3 counters for 3 mana to cast another red spell essentially costs only 2 counters.
Enigma Drake for similarity to Crackling Drake seems obvious. Against non-weenie decks, ‘Whirler does little, and the drakes also have a big body, so maybe I’ll sideboard ‘Whirler.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica