BBD talks about several red decks in his article today, and posts a Flame of Keld-less list that won the SCG Invi in Roanoke in the 8th. It seems to be a bit of a blend between the "normal" red aggro and the Flame decks, by running the 8 Wizards and pseudo-Bolt think it needs some Chandra in there, or maybe a couple of Glorybringers... Thoughts?
i found the deck neither neither fast nor explosive. fewer copies of Earthshaker Khenra and Ahn Crop Crasher meant i had to expend burn on blockers, burn which could have been going to the face, which decreased the amount of reach.
i think it was also pretty bad vs Steel Leaf Stompy, as that deck could go T2 Heart of Kiran then T3 Rhonas or Steel Leaf Champion then it didn't care what small creature i played next.
still, the deck could be good and i could just be a bad pilot, so i will stick to the mono red deck that got me 4-1 2 SS ago.
Earlier in the game, when you'd most want the 1 drop, the +1/+0 and haste would be less available. Lavarunner as the only Wizard to help Wizard's Lightning doesn't seem good either.
Round 1 was U/B/R. Game 1 he got both Karn, Scion of Urza and Saheeli Rai; I could've handled either but not both and it kept damage away from his face. Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain, Cabal Paladin copied with Saheeli's 2nd ability, and cheap artifacts were too much. Game 2, Chandra's Defeat helped get rid of Saheeli ASAP and I kept Tezzeret the Schemer contained. Game 3 I'd say I outraced him.
Round 2 was R/G fatties. Game 1, he got manaflooded. Game 2, I Chandra's Defeated his Glorybringer and he Chandra's Defeated my Glorybringer, but I had more other gas.
Round 3 was W/U/B control.
Game 1 he got The Scarab God, Shalai, Voice of Plenty and Knights of Grace or Malice kept coming. He countered some things, but it wasn't enough. I played Lightning Strike on Shalai with Soul-Scar Mage out but didn't get other damage to finish her off. I made a slight misplay, exerting Ahn-Crop Crasher with the 0/1 Shalai the only target, so Scarab God and Knight of Malice got my Kari Zev. That attack still got him down to 1. I played Hazoret and didn't attack, successfully waiting to fishing him off with Hazoret's ability
game 2 he got stuck on 2 lands I played extra aggressively to push damage through before he could get going. Harsh Mentor was a glorified bear as Scarab God didn't show up again. He said he sided it out as too slow.
Chandra's Defeat was an MVP against both decks with red, Kari Zev's Expertise against anything with big creatures. Bomat Courier, Earthshaker Khenra and Kari Zev came out as they seemed better against weenies. I also sided out Dire Fleet Daredevil if I didn't see much for him to grab game 1. I didn't end up drawing him anyway.
Kari Zev felt pretty underwhelming in 90% of the games i played so far on MTGO and i was thinking about cutting her entirely. What are the general thoughts on her?
Hungry Flames just looks like sweet, sweet SB Material. Removal and still burning? Sounds good to me, even for 3 Mana.
Invigorated Rampage to break through clogged boards, maybe?
Renegade Tactics as a 1-Mana Crop Crasher might be worth considering aswell in clogged MUs?
I often felt like this decks struggles after the 4th turn or so, when the opponent starts bringing out bigger creatures. Those cards may be helpful in these MUs?
Would appreciate all feedback! I am really not invested in Standard so i am using my ~20-30 Games i played so far as reference.
Kari Zev felt pretty underwhelming in 90% of the games i played so far on MTGO and i was thinking about cutting her entirely. What are the general thoughts on her?
Hungry Flames just looks like sweet, sweet SB Material. Removal and still burning? Sounds good to me, even for 3 Mana.
Invigorated Rampage to break through clogged boards, maybe?
Renegade Tactics as a 1-Mana Crop Crasher might be worth considering aswell in clogged MUs?
I often felt like this decks struggles after the 4th turn or so, when the opponent starts bringing out bigger creatures. Those cards may be helpful in these MUs?
Would appreciate all feedback! I am really not invested in Standard so i am using my ~20-30 Games i played so far as reference.
I kind of hoped i could go without the phoenixes due to the pricetag but i guess i will have to bite the bullet to play the decent version of the deck.
Also surprised to see that the brawlers see no play. They felt like they are a real clock against control decks.
i have seen some lists that cut Kari Zev and replace them with Scrapheap Scrounger. of course that would mean splashing black to take advantage of Scrounger's ability. probably good in a control-filled meta, but in an aggro meta likely terrible as it cannot block. Kari Zev is good in that it is a decent blocker is 3 power on 2 bodies when it attacks. incidentally, the extra body it provides may be useful when you suspect opponent is holding Settle the Wreckage because you get to search for 2 lands then to ramp up to 9 mana for kicked Fight with Fire.
Hungry Flames too costly at 3 CMC, though i know one player who puts it in the sideboard to use against weenie decks.
Invigorated Rampage i have read some players put it in their deck to race in mirror matches, but it i haven't seen it in lists recently.
Renegade Tactics probably not the best card to put in a Constructed deck. better to kill the creature or make it unable to block with Earthshaker Khenra or Ahn Crop Crasher.
as for Blood-Rage Brawlers, while they are aggressive, they can easily be killed by common removal, so not really ideal to put in a deck.
Rekindling Phoenix is your friend vs green decks (they can't block it because they usually use creatures without flying but it can block their creatures) and control decks because it is pretty hard to get rid of.
you might want to put a Scavenger Grounds in your SB because U/B decks are becoming more popular and they have The Scarab God so better to empty the GY.
Yeah i actually looked at Scavenger Grounds and i felt like some GY Hate would be nice to have.
Thanks for your insight!
Why is Chandra not played in the MD? Is she too slow? So far it always felt good to cast her on curve. Removal and a steady burn source is nice to have
Chandra not MD is probably a meta call. if you're expecting to against mostly control decks, Chandra ToD is likely good maindeck. i have 1 maindeck, 2 in the sideboard. but if you expect mirror matches Chandra is probably not the best card.
another sideboard consideration is Vance's Blasting Canons. likely a good SB card in mirror matches and against B/R decks. however, it's pretty difficult to flip and unlike Chandra doesn't really do much unless flipped.
Kari Zev's Expertise is nice in the board against big(non-Lyra) creatures, not sure how much of the meta is midrange though like 5-10%?
if you're going to use the full 4 Soul-Scar Mage I'd definitely run 2 or more Chandra, SSM isn't much of a clock vs control
I like Kari Zev as a 2 drop
Kari Zev's Expertise is nice in the board against big(non-Lyra) creatures, not sure how much of the meta is midrange though like 5-10%?
if you're going to use the full 4 Soul-Scar Mage I'd definitely run 2 or more Chandra, SSM isn't much of a clock vs control
I like Kari Zev as a 2 drop
Expertise is decent....but with few exceptions, Fight with Fire is almost always going to be a better option. He should have 3 Chandra in his 75. SSM isnt supposed to be a clock vs Control. Its there to keep opposing creatures in check.
Are there any cards in M19 that are worth considering?
Banefire and Guttersnipe are two total pet cards of mine. Though Guttersnipe might be a better fit for a UR Spells deck, rather than adding some burn on a stick.
Other than that, what about Lava Axe? I remember that it saw some play in previous standard formats and it looks like a nice top end?
Are there any hate cards coming out that could change the sideboard? Fountain of Renewal for example?
Banefire seems too costly for mono red aggro to use and from what i have been reading, it contends with Fight with Fire in the SB slot. FWF is more versatile in that it can cheaply deal with threats like Steel Leaf Champion and Lyra Dawnbringer, unlike Banefire. same logic applies to FWF vs Lava Axe.
Fountain of Renewal can be cleanly dealt with Abrade.
i think the best M19 card for R/x aggro is Lightning Mare vs U/x control, though maybe it will be much better when Fatal Push rotates out of Standard.
Is it going to be worth considering Diamond Mare for mirrors? I know it dies to Abrade, but if they have it, they have it. If they don't, then it may be an edge. At least it's the same mana cost as the spells that could remove it (Abrade, Strike) compared to trading down for the Fountain.
i think Aethersphere Harvester is still better. can let you gain life, is a solid blocker for Rekindling Phoenix, and can fly over stalled ground state.
In going over some RB Aggro decks from MTG Goldfish, I noticed some players are siding Rekindling Phoenix. Is there a reason for this that you all can think of? I've considered the Phoenix to essentially be an auto-include in all standard red decks. Am I missing something?
In going over some RB Aggro decks from MTG Goldfish, I noticed some players are siding Rekindling Phoenix. Is there a reason for this that you all can think of? I've considered the Phoenix to essentially be an auto-include in all standard red decks. Am I missing something?
I would say its an auto include, but RB plays less of em cuz they often run a little bit of everything MB. 2 Hazoret, 2 Chandra, 2 Phoenix, 2 Glorybringer, 2 Heart. I suppose if they see a lot of Contempt or Cast Out/Seal Away, the bird feels a little worse.....but so does Hazoret, soooooo....
Kari Zev's Expertise is nice in the board against big(non-Lyra) creatures, not sure how much of the meta is midrange though like 5-10%?
if you're going to use the full 4 Soul-Scar Mage I'd definitely run 2 or more Chandra, SSM isn't much of a clock vs control
I like Kari Zev as a 2 drop
Expertise is decent....but with few exceptions, Fight with Fire is almost always going to be a better option. He should have 3 Chandra in his 75. SSM isnt supposed to be a clock vs Control. Its there to keep opposing creatures in check.
Expertise hasn't been impressive for me either - usually it just gets me one swing with their creature. We have better ways to push a few damage through, and big burn spells/abilities like FWF deal with the fatty more permanently. Often I don't have a CMC 2 or less spell in hand.
Soul Scar Mage is great for creatures too big to killed with one burn effect - reduce them and/or kill them later. It's also mono-red's only way of dealing with indestructibles. -2/-2 to opposing Rekindling Phoenix almost seems better than killing it. Sometimes Prowess essentially lets burn spells deal 1 more damage when opponent has no blockers. The increased P/T hasn't been relevant otherwise.
So, i have been playing some leagues and Banefire was a bomb.
The meta feels very controlly/midrange-ish and Banefire being uncounterable was very often relevant! I play 2 Banefire MD at the moment as they are a nice mana sink in the lategame and feel good to topdeck.
However i have seen some Black or Blue/Black control decks abusing artifacts and Herald of Anguish. How do we handle this? The card is just nuts! It generates card advantage, it kills Hazoret and it's a fast clock.
Of course, Fight with Fire and Banefire can handle it but if you play down to 1 card in hand your answer is gone aswell...
this red deck incorporates Viashino Pyromancer to make the deck more consistent.
that's a total of 44 pts of base "burn" damage (from actual burn spells and from Pyromancer and Chainwhirler).
it's low to the ground so it gets under slower decks.
it has ways of refilling the hand.
i like it. q problematic card i can see it will have to deal with is Shalai, Voice of Plenty.
but if it can kill most of the time in 4-5 turns Shalai may not be a problem at all. even T3 kill is possible with the deck but with an extremely good hand.
T1 Soul Scar Mage
T2 Another Soul Scar Mage plus Ghitu Lavarunner attack with T1 Soul Scar Mage down to 19
T3 Triple Wizard's Lightning, trigger prowess, Lavarunner gets +1/+0, attack with all
another thing is the lack of Hazoret, which could make Hazored matches tricky.
i think i will have to playtest the deck. it has potential. Nationals is only 2 weeks away.
I'm fairly new to this deck and I'm currently using the monored build which won the GP Pittsburg. I'm fine with it so far, but can someone give me an idea of what edge the mono-red has over the RB version (or vice-versa)?
mono red aggro of course offers fast, consistent mana. i have defeated many R/B players who put themselves behind by playing a tapped land (Canyon Slough) at a critical stage of the game (usually turn 4). it goes under most decks, so they could be under 10 life already but still preparing their game plan. mono red's threats are less resilient than most, though.
R/B on the other hand is more of a midrange deck; hence, it's flexible. it can be deadly aggressive at times too. another advantage is the ability to use Unlicensed Disintegration which is the best creature kill spell for me. finally, splashing Black opens up sideboard options, like Duress and Arguel's Blood Fast.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
2 Ahn-Crop Crasher
4 Bomat Courier
2 Earthshaker Khenra
4 Ghitu Lavarunner
4 Goblin Chainwhirler
4 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Lightning Strike
4 Shock
4 Wizard's Lightning
Land (22)
22 Mountain
4 Abrade
4 Chandra's Defeat
2 Fight with Fire
2 Rekindling Phoenix
1 Scavenger Grounds
2 Vance's Blasting Cannons
i found the deck neither neither fast nor explosive. fewer copies of Earthshaker Khenra and Ahn Crop Crasher meant i had to expend burn on blockers, burn which could have been going to the face, which decreased the amount of reach.
i think it was also pretty bad vs Steel Leaf Stompy, as that deck could go T2 Heart of Kiran then T3 Rhonas or Steel Leaf Champion then it didn't care what small creature i played next.
still, the deck could be good and i could just be a bad pilot, so i will stick to the mono red deck that got me 4-1 2 SS ago.
Went 3-0 at a 10-person LGS event with this list:
19 Mountain
4 Sunscorched Desert
Creature (23)
4 Ahn-Crop Crasher
2 Bomat Courier
1 Dire Fleet Daredevil
1 Earthshaker Khenra
3 Glorybringer
4 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Abrade
Planeswalker (2)
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Chandra's Defeat
4 Harsh Mentor
3 Kari Zev's Expertise
4 Magma Spray
Match report
Round 1 was U/B/R. Game 1 he got both Karn, Scion of Urza and Saheeli Rai; I could've handled either but not both and it kept damage away from his face. Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain, Cabal Paladin copied with Saheeli's 2nd ability, and cheap artifacts were too much. Game 2, Chandra's Defeat helped get rid of Saheeli ASAP and I kept Tezzeret the Schemer contained. Game 3 I'd say I outraced him.
Round 2 was R/G fatties. Game 1, he got manaflooded. Game 2, I Chandra's Defeated his Glorybringer and he Chandra's Defeated my Glorybringer, but I had more other gas.
Round 3 was W/U/B control.
Game 1 he got The Scarab God, Shalai, Voice of Plenty and Knights of Grace or Malice kept coming. He countered some things, but it wasn't enough. I played Lightning Strike on Shalai with Soul-Scar Mage out but didn't get other damage to finish her off. I made a slight misplay, exerting Ahn-Crop Crasher with the 0/1 Shalai the only target, so Scarab God and Knight of Malice got my Kari Zev. That attack still got him down to 1. I played Hazoret and didn't attack, successfully waiting to fishing him off with Hazoret's ability
game 2 he got stuck on 2 lands I played extra aggressively to push damage through before he could get going. Harsh Mentor was a glorified bear as Scarab God didn't show up again. He said he sided it out as too slow.
Chandra's Defeat was an MVP against both decks with red, Kari Zev's Expertise against anything with big creatures. Bomat Courier, Earthshaker Khenra and Kari Zev came out as they seemed better against weenies. I also sided out Dire Fleet Daredevil if I didn't see much for him to grab game 1. I didn't end up drawing him anyway.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
I'm pretty new to Standard. Actually i am just picking it up to play in the nationals.
I am currently on a Mono Red build looking like this:
2 Sunscorched Deset
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Bomat Courier
4 Bloodrage Brawler
4 Earthshaker Khenra
1 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
4 Ahn-Crop Crasher
4 Goblin Chainwhirler
3 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Abrade
4 Lightning Strike
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Chandra's Defeat
3 Magma Spray
2 Abrade
3 Fight with Fire
2 Aethersphere Harvester
3 Glorybringer
Kari Zev felt pretty underwhelming in 90% of the games i played so far on MTGO and i was thinking about cutting her entirely. What are the general thoughts on her?
Also i have been eyeing with these cards and would like some opinions on them:
Hungry Flames
Invigorated Rampage
Renegade Tactics
Hungry Flames just looks like sweet, sweet SB Material. Removal and still burning? Sounds good to me, even for 3 Mana.
Invigorated Rampage to break through clogged boards, maybe?
Renegade Tactics as a 1-Mana Crop Crasher might be worth considering aswell in clogged MUs?
I often felt like this decks struggles after the 4th turn or so, when the opponent starts bringing out bigger creatures. Those cards may be helpful in these MUs?
Would appreciate all feedback! I am really not invested in Standard so i am using my ~20-30 Games i played so far as reference.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
SB should be 3x Fight with Fire, 3x Chandra, 3x Chandra's Defeat, 3x Glorybringer, 2x Harvester, 1x Treasure Map/Sorcerous Spyglass/Siege-Gang Commander/Scavenger Grounds.
Mono Red is is well tested at this point. Those changes represent the most optimal list more or less
I kind of hoped i could go without the phoenixes due to the pricetag but i guess i will have to bite the bullet to play the decent version of the deck.
Also surprised to see that the brawlers see no play. They felt like they are a real clock against control decks.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
Hungry Flames too costly at 3 CMC, though i know one player who puts it in the sideboard to use against weenie decks.
Invigorated Rampage i have read some players put it in their deck to race in mirror matches, but it i haven't seen it in lists recently.
Renegade Tactics probably not the best card to put in a Constructed deck. better to kill the creature or make it unable to block with Earthshaker Khenra or Ahn Crop Crasher.
as for Blood-Rage Brawlers, while they are aggressive, they can easily be killed by common removal, so not really ideal to put in a deck.
Rekindling Phoenix is your friend vs green decks (they can't block it because they usually use creatures without flying but it can block their creatures) and control decks because it is pretty hard to get rid of.
you might want to put a Scavenger Grounds in your SB because U/B decks are becoming more popular and they have The Scarab God so better to empty the GY.
Thanks for your insight!
Why is Chandra not played in the MD? Is she too slow? So far it always felt good to cast her on curve. Removal and a steady burn source is nice to have
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
another sideboard consideration is Vance's Blasting Canons. likely a good SB card in mirror matches and against B/R decks. however, it's pretty difficult to flip and unlike Chandra doesn't really do much unless flipped.
if you're going to use the full 4 Soul-Scar Mage I'd definitely run 2 or more Chandra, SSM isn't much of a clock vs control
I like Kari Zev as a 2 drop
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Bomat Courier
2 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
4 Earthshaker Khenra
2 Ahn-Crop Crasher
4 Goblin Chainwhirler
4 Hazoret the Fervent
3 Rekindling Phoenix
3 Lightning Strike
3 Abrade
3 Chandra's Defeat
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Scavenger Grounds
2 Aethersphere Harvester
3 Fight with Fire
3 Glorybringer
Are there any cards in M19 that are worth considering?
Banefire and Guttersnipe are two total pet cards of mine. Though Guttersnipe might be a better fit for a UR Spells deck, rather than adding some burn on a stick.
Other than that, what about Lava Axe? I remember that it saw some play in previous standard formats and it looks like a nice top end?
Are there any hate cards coming out that could change the sideboard? Fountain of Renewal for example?
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
Fountain of Renewal can be cleanly dealt with Abrade.
i think the best M19 card for R/x aggro is Lightning Mare vs U/x control, though maybe it will be much better when Fatal Push rotates out of Standard.
i think Wizards/Flame of Keld builds got more options with M19 with Dismissive Pyromancer and Viashino Pyromancer.
Expertise hasn't been impressive for me either - usually it just gets me one swing with their creature. We have better ways to push a few damage through, and big burn spells/abilities like FWF deal with the fatty more permanently. Often I don't have a CMC 2 or less spell in hand.
Soul Scar Mage is great for creatures too big to killed with one burn effect - reduce them and/or kill them later. It's also mono-red's only way of dealing with indestructibles. -2/-2 to opposing Rekindling Phoenix almost seems better than killing it. Sometimes Prowess essentially lets burn spells deal 1 more damage when opponent has no blockers. The increased P/T hasn't been relevant otherwise.
Lava Axe does allow direct damage to planeswalkers, but Wizard's Lightning and Chandra's Defeat seem better there.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
The meta feels very controlly/midrange-ish and Banefire being uncounterable was very often relevant! I play 2 Banefire MD at the moment as they are a nice mana sink in the lategame and feel good to topdeck.
However i have seen some Black or Blue/Black control decks abusing artifacts and Herald of Anguish. How do we handle this? The card is just nuts! It generates card advantage, it kills Hazoret and it's a fast clock.
Of course, Fight with Fire and Banefire can handle it but if you play down to 1 card in hand your answer is gone aswell...
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
this red deck incorporates Viashino Pyromancer to make the deck more consistent.
that's a total of 44 pts of base "burn" damage (from actual burn spells and from Pyromancer and Chainwhirler).
it's low to the ground so it gets under slower decks.
it has ways of refilling the hand.
i like it. q problematic card i can see it will have to deal with is Shalai, Voice of Plenty.
but if it can kill most of the time in 4-5 turns Shalai may not be a problem at all. even T3 kill is possible with the deck but with an extremely good hand.
T1 Soul Scar Mage
T2 Another Soul Scar Mage plus Ghitu Lavarunner attack with T1 Soul Scar Mage down to 19
T3 Triple Wizard's Lightning, trigger prowess, Lavarunner gets +1/+0, attack with all
another thing is the lack of Hazoret, which could make Hazored matches tricky.
i think i will have to playtest the deck. it has potential. Nationals is only 2 weeks away.
I'm fairly new to this deck and I'm currently using the monored build which won the GP Pittsburg. I'm fine with it so far, but can someone give me an idea of what edge the mono-red has over the RB version (or vice-versa)?
R/B on the other hand is more of a midrange deck; hence, it's flexible. it can be deadly aggressive at times too. another advantage is the ability to use Unlicensed Disintegration which is the best creature kill spell for me. finally, splashing Black opens up sideboard options, like Duress and Arguel's Blood Fast.