I only have two questions for myself to answer:
1) The sultai mana is great and the explore mechanic works great with The Scarab God But does this warant staying in Sultai colors or should straight up GB be the way Ravenous Chupacabra can replace Hostage Taker....... Kinda.
2) What to do with Longtusk Cub.............
Curious to hear what ýou all think of these current events.
I'm solidly in the camp of B/G splashing U instead of heavily vested in blue now Refiner is gone. I may also forego the snek altogether, as I'm mulling around a Sultai reanimator strategy that seems sweet. The splash for U would be for Scarab God and counterspell shenanigans out of the board. We won't need T3 blue mana, which allows us to invest more heavily in BB and GG spells from a manabase standpoint without hurting our blue synergies.
At this point, it may also be worth looking into other colors. Scarab God is still a really strong reason to go blue, but white and red have both also been fringe contenders.
I will be brewing and post a few deck ideas, hopefully by this weekend.
I'm solidly in the camp of B/G splashing U instead of heavily vested in blue now Refiner is gone. I may also forego the snek altogether, as I'm mulling around a Sultai reanimator strategy that seems sweet. The splash for U would be for Scarab God and counterspell shenanigans out of the board. We won't need T3 blue mana, which allows us to invest more heavily in BB and GG spells from a manabase standpoint without hurting our blue synergies.
At this point, it may also be worth looking into other colors. Scarab God is still a really strong reason to go blue, but white and red have both also been fringe contenders.
I will be brewing and post a few deck ideas, hopefully by this weekend.
There's thread for that. Chupacabra and Jadelight Ranger (if the mana works) seem very interesting there also, and the new enchantment.
I still can't wait to have the christmas draw of untap with snek into 6/5 Jadelight Ranger. But drawing 2 free lands seems a'ight also.
I think the way forward is to drop blue until the meta settles and then reconsider if control starts to grow as a percentage of the meta. The only real incentive now is scarab god and half of why it was good was as an answer to other scarab gods which temur won't be able to run anymore (if it is even a deck). long tusk is definitly still good enough along side snek so I do see any reason to drop it. I really am not a fan of evolving wilds. It is slow and doesn't give 2 colors. Jadelight Ranger was almost good enough pre banning so I really think the best cource is to focus on a mana base that can curve snek into ranger. Vraska is always an option if inevitability is needed.
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I'm solidly in the camp of B/G splashing U instead of heavily vested in blue now Refiner is gone. I may also forego the snek altogether, as I'm mulling around a Sultai reanimator strategy that seems sweet. The splash for U would be for Scarab God and counterspell shenanigans out of the board. We won't need T3 blue mana, which allows us to invest more heavily in BB and GG spells from a manabase standpoint without hurting our blue synergies.
At this point, it may also be worth looking into other colors. Scarab God is still a really strong reason to go blue, but white and red have both also been fringe contenders.
I will be brewing and post a few deck ideas, hopefully by this weekend.
With the banning of Attune with aether and Rogue Refiner I feel more in the G/B camp than ever. I modified my board to account for the loss of attune. Playing 3 colors isn't nearly as appealing without that attune, especially because straight G/B seems to have a lot to offer.
Here's my updated list. It's heavily skewed to beat Ramunap? Red because that's what keeps winning at my LGS. Moment of Craving looks really nice! I didn't look too closely at the sideboard, so that may change around a bit. I get the feeling that this list should beat RR game 1 most of the time.
I'm solidly in the camp of B/G splashing U instead of heavily vested in blue now Refiner is gone. I may also forego the snek altogether, as I'm mulling around a Sultai reanimator strategy that seems sweet. The splash for U would be for Scarab God and counterspell shenanigans out of the board. We won't need T3 blue mana, which allows us to invest more heavily in BB and GG spells from a manabase standpoint without hurting our blue synergies.
I’d assume GY hate will be come a 100% gaurentee again. Gods gift and search for ascanta are perfectly poised.
As for the gifted aetherborn, double black is to inconsistent for that to be a good plan. I also think the ranger is better than the rishkar in this setup jay.
Black/green already had an amazing game vs red cause of all the two drops. Without the dino, they have a terrible time beating us. The real tough matchup, and I speak from experience, is blue/black control. It died to temur and red but it will be back hard now.
Need recursion, maybe scrapheap, and maybe that shapers’ sanctuary. More hydras the better too
Sideboard needs to have 3x lost legacy and 2x disposes imo. Gear toward control rather than red. We beat red already.
I did play vs a sphinx deck yesterday that was absolutely bonkers. Definitely gonna be an issue.
I'm solidly in the camp of B/G splashing U instead of heavily vested in blue now Refiner is gone. I may also forego the snek altogether, as I'm mulling around a Sultai reanimator strategy that seems sweet. The splash for U would be for Scarab God and counterspell shenanigans out of the board. We won't need T3 blue mana, which allows us to invest more heavily in BB and GG spells from a manabase standpoint without hurting our blue synergies.
I’d assume GY hate will be come a 100% gaurentee again. Gods gift and search for ascanta are perfectly poised.
As for the gifted aetherborn, double black is to inconsistent for that to be a good plan. I also think the ranger is better than the rishkar in this setup jay.
Black/green already had an amazing game vs red cause of all the two drops. Without the dino, they have a terrible time beating us. The real tough matchup, and I speak from experience, is blue/black control. It died to temur and red but it will be back hard now.
Need recursion, maybe scrapheap, and maybe that shapers’ sanctuary. More hydras the better too
Sideboard needs to have 3x lost legacy and 2x disposes imo. Gear toward control rather than red. We beat red already.
I did play vs a sphinx deck yesterday that was absolutely bonkers. Definitely gonna be an issue.
Scrapheap does seem interesting in a straight G/B deck, do you think it would make sense to swap longtusk cub out for it? Snake just doesn't do anything with Scrapheap really.
What do you think about using Ghalta, Tetzimoc and Vraska as top curve drops? I'm thinking Gearhulks are the better solution, I just think they're fun cards, so I'll definitely try and experiment a bit.
Scrapheap does seem interesting in a straight G/B deck, do you think it would make sense to swap longtusk cub out for it? Snake just doesn't do anything with Scrapheap really.
I wouldn’t main them. Cub is still gross with snake. He might be the sideboard card against blue/black tho. Take out cub and put in scrounger.
Just played 6 more games vs that Sphinx deck. It’s real. It’s a better version of blue/white control. So consistent
a buddy of mine has been helping me out the past few days with this list. i'd rather play sultai but i really don't think that is an option to start. dispossess i feel is better than lost legacy. god pharoah's gift is tough for us and being able to get rid of them all before they can get them out on the field is nuts.
Losing the energy synergy of Aether Hub and Rogue Refiner, as well as the mana fixing, is really going to hurt the consistency of this deck. The payoff cards, which were less important to this deck than to Temur Energy, will be less impactful overall. If we are keeping the energy package, there are a few cards we could consider:
Greenbelt Rampager - brings the curve down, and while it's a vanilla 3/4, it can easily be a repeatable source of energy for Glint-Sleeve Siphoner and a later game 3/4 creature to help close out the game.
Decoction Module - turns everything creature card into an energy source, even better with snek, and allows us to bounce cards in response to removal or to play into our own deck's synergies (Gearhulk anyone?!).
Die Young - not the worst removal, and can deal with threats like Hazoret.
Sage of Shaila's Claim - not good card is not good, but it does give us energy with a body.
Glimmer of Genius - a slightly better proxy or Rogue Refiner, but more expensive... and still no body...
At some point, we have to ask ourselves if the Energy package is worth it anymore. Siphoner is good, as is Cub, but they'll be only half good now. My concern regarding the deck is that we are trying to maintain the viability of the basic shell, but in doing so, we could be overlooking different builds that will be stronger (now) than the Energy build. Because to be honest, other than Decoction Module having some fun potential, I'm not seeing any good Energy glue. Which means the deck will be synergistically weak, meaning it just won't be a strong contender as is.
While I understand that energy has taken a little hit. I just added Servant of the Conduit and my list felt fine. I actually reverted to another, older list I came up with just prior to Ixalan, and it seems fine. It finally let me shed the value train that is Rogue Refiner, and let my deck be base Golgari with a blue splash because Scarab God gonna be Scarab God.
Do you guys think splashing blue for Hadana's Climb would be sick? I kinda feel it would be very strong with a constrictor/ballista/hydra on the table, or making a flying gearhulk to smash for some damage.
I actually think it's a bit slow. If you're going harder on the Constrictor plan, it probably has a better chance of working. I wouldn't mind trying it as a 1-of, but I feel like it's not where we want to be right now.
Probably. I just kinda have an idea that it could insane with a constrictor on the table. I will definitely experiment with it. It could be a bit slow, but I kinda like the high risk / high reward thing hehe.
Probably. I just kinda have an idea that it could insane with a constrictor on the table. I will definitely experiment with it. It could be a bit slow, but I kinda like the high risk / high reward thing hehe.
That's what Jadine tries in the list I linked. I am still looking at Sultai for Scarab God and the spicy one-of Climb. I wouldn't do the U splash for only Climb.
Constrictor shells are definitely still feasible as it hasn't lost too much from the bans. I'm still inclined to play Sultai because having played regular BG Constrictor, I can say for sure that the control matchup is very frustrating and not fun. It seems that the control decks now have an opportunity to dominate Standard so I think packing blue for counterspells is probably a necessity. Also of course, The Scarab God.
I have no clue about the sideboard because I dot know how the meta will shape out post-banning. But again I suspect control is going to be prevalent at least early on.
Some questions I have are:
Is Champion of Wits worth it? I initially started out with 4x Champion of Wits to replace Rogue Refiner as a 3-drop with card advantage but I notice that drawing 2 and discarding 2 may not be actual card advantage as I find myself ditching cards I would probably want later on. I've cut back to two because the late game potential of this guy is still very good.
Is Longtusk Cub still viable? I've noticed Cub to be a lot of worse without a Turn 1 Attune with Aether. But the interaxtion it has woth Constrictor is still powerful, though not as much as before since the deck is now more constrained on energy.
Do the creatures with explore add toward land count? I originally ran 25 lands but I thought I could cut to 24 given that I'm running creatures with explore.
I've had to tune my list further. I took out 2 longtusk cubs due to lack of energy. I did add 3 servant of the conduit to help add some energy back into the deck and to avoid having to play 24/25 lands. In my self-play testing, Jadelight Ranger can definitely help with the land count. This card is better than I imagined. I like that it can turn on Rhonas too. I will probably run 3-4 once I get a hold of the copies.
Another card we could look at for mana fixing is renegade map. It's a turn 1 mana fixer which is what attune mostly did for us.
I'm also putting in one Live fast to replace a copy of Rogue refiner and a missing Jadelight Ranger. I don't think an energy shell is necessarily unplayable just because of the loss of attune. I think live fast is probably better than lifecrafter's bestiary, especially in an energy build. Bristling Hydra can still win games with the energy it produces on it's own. I think 4 hydras is still a fine way to go about winning. Especially with servant of the conduit in the deck, as we can get it down turn 3 sometimes.
While attune was awesome and Rogue Refiner was great, I don't think that we need to be straight GB. Given the value cards in standard, Scarab God and Glorybringer really stand out to me along with Chandra. The problem is that Jund just doesn't have a great mana base. Just messing around with the mana base for Sultai, I think that it is still pretty stable even without attune. Servant of the Conduit is just more important if you go Sultai, and it generates energy for other cards pretty well. I might cut Cubs completely for Ballistas, but I really question any decklist that has any energy not running Hydras. Even a one time use of its energy to get hex proof can be enough to out tempo your opponent. And the threat it displays is huge.
Jadelight Ranger, absent energy, might even be better than Rogue Refiner. Filtering out two lands is not trivial and the potential 3/2 or 4/3 body is as good as Refiner ever was.
If one does go straight GB and drops most of the energy cards, then you can't run Siphoner. There is also that to consider.
Who needs scarab god when we have Journey to Eternity?
Because I'd rather play your creatures against you when you try to raise them from the dead.
After some serious testing last night, I legitimately believe Sultai is still good. I just don't have many blue spells I really want in the main deck other than Scarab God. I've kept a fairly similar sideboard. Maybe I should keep Hostage Taker?
Who needs scarab god when we have Journey to Eternity?
Because I'd rather play your creatures against you when you try to raise them from the dead.
After some serious testing last night, I legitimately believe Sultai is still good. I just don't have many blue spells I really want in the main deck other than Scarab God. I've kept a fairly similar sideboard. Maybe I should keep Hostage Taker?
The only downside to sultai is the mana fixing. Splashing blue is still viable w servants but in a strictly bg shell, journey does a fine job.
The Obvious choise for Rogue Refiner in our shell is offcourse Jadelight Ranger
Going with an extra copy of The Scarab God alongside two Verdurous Gearhulk and an extra Bristling Hydra.
The manabase can be tuned so that our curve can be a little higher by adding Evolving Wilds instead of Attune With Aether and dropping two forests, This brings us to 23 lands in total.
I only have two questions for myself to answer:
1) The sultai mana is great and the explore mechanic works great with The Scarab God But does this warant staying in Sultai colors or should straight up GB be the way Ravenous Chupacabra can replace Hostage Taker....... Kinda.
2) What to do with Longtusk Cub.............
Curious to hear what ýou all think of these current events.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Cub is good energy generation. With Temur stepping back, people may not be as prepared to kill them. I will certainly try them.
Evolving Wilds. Yeah, probably better than Renegade Map. Yuk, though.
Sure wish I had access to all that data. But only me.
I can give up Hostage Taker, but I want The Scarab God to be good enough.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I think the refiner was the only reason to run blue. Th new b/g enchantment is pretty solid in my testing as a one of
At this point, it may also be worth looking into other colors. Scarab God is still a really strong reason to go blue, but white and red have both also been fringe contenders.
I will be brewing and post a few deck ideas, hopefully by this weekend.
There's thread for that. Chupacabra and Jadelight Ranger (if the mana works) seem very interesting there also, and the new enchantment.
I still can't wait to have the christmas draw of untap with snek into 6/5 Jadelight Ranger. But drawing 2 free lands seems a'ight also.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
With the banning of Attune with aether and Rogue Refiner I feel more in the G/B camp than ever. I modified my board to account for the loss of attune. Playing 3 colors isn't nearly as appealing without that attune, especially because straight G/B seems to have a lot to offer.
Here's my updated list. It's heavily skewed to beat Ramunap? Red because that's what keeps winning at my LGS. Moment of Craving looks really nice! I didn't look too closely at the sideboard, so that may change around a bit. I get the feeling that this list should beat RR game 1 most of the time.
4x Winding Constrictor
4x Glint-sleeve Siphoner
4x Longtusk Cub
2x Gifted Aetherborn
2x walking ballista
1x Rhonas the indomitable
2x Rishkar, Peema renegade
4x Bristling Hydra
2x Verdurous Gearhulk
non-creature 12
2x Aethersphere Harvester
3x Blossoming defense
4x Fatal Push
2x Moment of craving
1x Vraska's contempt
4x Aether Hub
4x Blooming Marsh
6x forest
6x swamp
1x ifnir deadlands
2x hashep oasis
1x Blossoming Defense
2x Vraska's contempt
2x Lifecrafter's bestiary
1x Liliana, death's Majesty
2x Deathgorge Scavenger
1x Kitesail freebooter
4x Duress
1x Harsh Scrutiny
1x Walking Ballista
I’d assume GY hate will be come a 100% gaurentee again. Gods gift and search for ascanta are perfectly poised.
As for the gifted aetherborn, double black is to inconsistent for that to be a good plan. I also think the ranger is better than the rishkar in this setup jay.
Black/green already had an amazing game vs red cause of all the two drops. Without the dino, they have a terrible time beating us. The real tough matchup, and I speak from experience, is blue/black control. It died to temur and red but it will be back hard now.
Need recursion, maybe scrapheap, and maybe that shapers’ sanctuary. More hydras the better too
Sideboard needs to have 3x lost legacy and 2x disposes imo. Gear toward control rather than red. We beat red already.
I did play vs a sphinx deck yesterday that was absolutely bonkers. Definitely gonna be an issue.
Scrapheap does seem interesting in a straight G/B deck, do you think it would make sense to swap longtusk cub out for it? Snake just doesn't do anything with Scrapheap really.
What do you think about using Ghalta, Tetzimoc and Vraska as top curve drops? I'm thinking Gearhulks are the better solution, I just think they're fun cards, so I'll definitely try and experiment a bit.
I wouldn’t main them. Cub is still gross with snake. He might be the sideboard card against blue/black tho. Take out cub and put in scrounger.
Just played 6 more games vs that Sphinx deck. It’s real. It’s a better version of blue/white control. So consistent
GBbarely Sultai Snek at Star City. Worth considering, but really, Servant without Cub?Edit: Andrew Jessup brews GB Snek at Gatheringmagic.
Edit 2: Simon Nielsen brews GB Explore Snek at MtgMintCard (scroll down, it is the last of multiple decks).
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
NOTE: I have Jadelight Rangers and Chupacabras coming in the mail. So maybe an updated version would include those.
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
6 Forest
2 Hashep Oasis
2 Ifnir Deadlands
6 Swamp
CREATURES
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Longtusk Cub
3 Ripjaw Raptor
3 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
3 Verdurous Gearhulk
1 Ravenous Chupacabra
4 Walking Ballista
4 Winding Constrictor
3 Blossoming Defense
4 Fatal Push
3 Vraska's Contempt
3 deathgorge Scavenger
2 vraska, relic seeker
3 duress
2 appetite for the unnatural
2 disposses
2 shapers' sanctuary
1 nissa vital force
a buddy of mine has been helping me out the past few days with this list. i'd rather play sultai but i really don't think that is an option to start. dispossess i feel is better than lost legacy. god pharoah's gift is tough for us and being able to get rid of them all before they can get them out on the field is nuts.
what are your thoughts?
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Here what I'm currently testing:
4x Winding Constrictor
4x Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4x Walking Ballista
4x Merfolk Branchwalker
2x Champion of Wits
2x Jadelight Ranger
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
2x Ravenous Chupacabra
2x Verdurous Gearhulk
1x The Scarab God
Instants (8):
4x Fatal Push
2x Vraska's Contempt
2x Blossoming Defense
1x Hadana's Climb // Winged Temple of Orazca
Lands (24):
4x Botanical Sanctum
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Aether Hub
2x Evolving Wilds
2x Field of Ruin
2x Fetid Pools
1x Drowned Catacomb
2x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Island
4x Negate
2x Deathgorge Scavenger
2x Dreamstealer
2x Duress
1x The Scarab God
1x Nissa, Steward of Elements
1x Nissa, Vital force
1x Naturalized
1x Essence Scatter
I have no clue about the sideboard because I dot know how the meta will shape out post-banning. But again I suspect control is going to be prevalent at least early on.
Some questions I have are:
Is Champion of Wits worth it? I initially started out with 4x Champion of Wits to replace Rogue Refiner as a 3-drop with card advantage but I notice that drawing 2 and discarding 2 may not be actual card advantage as I find myself ditching cards I would probably want later on. I've cut back to two because the late game potential of this guy is still very good.
Is Longtusk Cub still viable? I've noticed Cub to be a lot of worse without a Turn 1 Attune with Aether. But the interaxtion it has woth Constrictor is still powerful, though not as much as before since the deck is now more constrained on energy.
Do the creatures with explore add toward land count? I originally ran 25 lands but I thought I could cut to 24 given that I'm running creatures with explore.
Another card we could look at for mana fixing is renegade map. It's a turn 1 mana fixer which is what attune mostly did for us.
I'm also putting in one Live fast to replace a copy of Rogue refiner and a missing Jadelight Ranger. I don't think an energy shell is necessarily unplayable just because of the loss of attune. I think live fast is probably better than lifecrafter's bestiary, especially in an energy build. Bristling Hydra can still win games with the energy it produces on it's own. I think 4 hydras is still a fine way to go about winning. Especially with servant of the conduit in the deck, as we can get it down turn 3 sometimes.
G/B energy list
4x Winding Constrictor
4x Glint-sleeve Siphoner
2x Longtusk Cub
3x Servant of the conduit
3x walking ballista
2x Jadelight ranger
1x Rhonas the indomitable
1x Rishkar, Peema renegade
4x Bristling Hydra
2x Ravenous Chupacabra
2x Verdurous Gearhulk
1x Aethersphere Harvester
1x Live fast
4x Fatal Push
2x Moment of craving
land 23
4x Aether Hub
4x Blooming Marsh
2x Foul Orchard
4x forest
6x swamp
1x ifnir deadlands
2x hashep oasis
3x Blossoming Defense
2x Vraska's contempt
2x Live fast
1x Liliana, death's Majesty
1x Aethersphere harvester
1x Deathgorge Scavenger
1x doomfall
4x Duress
4 Winding Constrictor
1 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
1 Ravenous Chupacabra
4 Jadelight Ranger
3 Bristling Hydra
2 The Scarab God
Enchantment
1 Hadana's Climb
Land
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Aether Hub
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Island
3 Swamp
5 Forest
2 Walking Ballista
2 Verdurous Gearhulk
Instant
3 Blossoming Defense
4 Fatal Push
2 Vraska's Contempt
1 Cartouche of Ambition
2 Sentinel Totem
1 Walking Ballista
2 Negate
2 Naturalize
2 Lost Legacy
2 Yahenni's Expertise
3 Duress
While attune was awesome and Rogue Refiner was great, I don't think that we need to be straight GB. Given the value cards in standard, Scarab God and Glorybringer really stand out to me along with Chandra. The problem is that Jund just doesn't have a great mana base. Just messing around with the mana base for Sultai, I think that it is still pretty stable even without attune. Servant of the Conduit is just more important if you go Sultai, and it generates energy for other cards pretty well. I might cut Cubs completely for Ballistas, but I really question any decklist that has any energy not running Hydras. Even a one time use of its energy to get hex proof can be enough to out tempo your opponent. And the threat it displays is huge.
Jadelight Ranger, absent energy, might even be better than Rogue Refiner. Filtering out two lands is not trivial and the potential 3/2 or 4/3 body is as good as Refiner ever was.
If one does go straight GB and drops most of the energy cards, then you can't run Siphoner. There is also that to consider.
Because I'd rather play your creatures against you when you try to raise them from the dead.
After some serious testing last night, I legitimately believe Sultai is still good. I just don't have many blue spells I really want in the main deck other than Scarab God. I've kept a fairly similar sideboard. Maybe I should keep Hostage Taker?
The only downside to sultai is the mana fixing. Splashing blue is still viable w servants but in a strictly bg shell, journey does a fine job.