To anyone that plays the Sultai list, do you feel ok with only 4 removal spells? It feels extremely bad for me. Been brewing with JUND splashing blue for scarab god.
No, which is why I run more than 4 removal spells. At SCG Dallas, I ran 3 Fatal Push, 2 Never // Return, and 2 Vraska's Contempt main with 1 Vraska's Contempt and 3 Doomfall in the side. However, Hostage Taker acts as removal if you can make it stick, which is why the Jessup brothers opted for only 4 Fatal Push main. Myself, I'm going down on the Nevers and adding the 4th Push back in, leaving me 6 maindeck removal spells and probably going with two Hostage Takers main as well.
If we agree on that, then we can talk about solutions. I see the following:
Maindeck the full four Hostage Taker. Nationals and Worlds suggest this is a bad idea
Hedge on Hostage Taker with maybe some main and some in the sideboard. The question about the Temur matchup seems relevant
If we expect Hostage Taker decks and want to fight them, sideboard against them.
Let control, Aggro and maybe Temur knock out Hostage Taker decks
Transformational sideboard: Constrictor synergy main and good stuff side. Would Constrictor get sided out? Could be vice versa, I suppose.
I don't know how Hostage Taker lines up against Temur, but there was a lot of Temur Black at SCG Dallas. I beat it every time I played it and the Jessup brothers obviously did quite well against them too. I don't have the reps that the pros do, and Temur is obviously powerful and flexible, but I think Sultai Constrictor has a better than 50% match-up against it, with or without Hostage Taker. Their deck against our deck depends so heavily on Glorybringer and Chandra, Torch of Defiance, it's not even funny. Their typical snowball threats (Longtusk Cub and Bristling Hydra) don't get as big as ours do. Add in the facts that we have access to better removal, have an overall low curve, and are now maindecking combat tricks/protection (i.e. Blossoming Defense) and I think the match-up slants even more in our favor.
I agree with your assessment that #2 is the approach we should take. I like 2 main with some number of B. Defense and a reasonable sideboard plan against Control and maybe the mirror & token-style decks.
Is Prowling Serpopard worth including in the 75 with the uptick of UB Control? They run very little maindeck removal, relying heavily on the counters, and Serpopard wrecks that strategy. It's less effective against the other control decks, but if UB Control is considered the premiere control deck, it might be worthy of inclusion. Or is it too cornercase and we stick with Duress and Negate instead?
Is Prowling Serpopard worth including in the 75 with the uptick of UB Control? They run very little maindeck removal, relying heavily on the counters, and Serpopard wrecks that strategy. It's less effective against the other control decks, but if UB Control is considered the premiere control deck, it might be worthy of inclusion. Or is it too cornercase and we stick with Duress and Negate instead?
Being someone who is running "The Pirate God" deck as it's been getting named, Prowling Serpopard is probably an okay sideboard. A lot of UB builds are being pushed into using Essence Scatter because Walk the Plank is pretty clunky at sorcery speed. It also stops Lookout's Dispersal, so that's pretty big.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think this is going to be my next iteration of the deck. If I make it out to an FNM and can post results, I will, but our shop is hardly meta representative, lol.
I think this is going to be my next iteration of the deck. If I make it out to an FNM and can post results, I will, but our shop is hardly meta representative, lol.
...
Thoughts?
At the last minute, my son decided that he wanted Ballistae in his version of Mardu Vehicles. I audibled into Sultai Midrange. While it worked out, with both of us going 3-1 and cashing, I am disappointed to not be able to report anything useful.
One of the cards that I struggled most over was Rhonas, but included one to see how it played. I am concerned about 2 Rhonas with only two of his best enabler (Bristling Hydra). I would -1 Rhonas, +1 Bristling Hydra. Otherwise, I really like your version. FWIW, I would move a Hostage Taker to the side to get the fourth Bristling Hydra in (cutting one of the 3s) and replace a Harvester with a Shapers' Sanctuary before I played it myself.
I want to play that card so much! And Shapers of Nature! But aren't we already winning when they are good? The deck needs help in those games where we struggle to get to that point. When I'm playing Herald out onto an empty board, I think I would feel bad. Win more is the classic phrase, IMO.
At the last minute, my son decided that he wanted Ballistae in his version of Mardu Vehicles. I audibled into Sultai Midrange. While it worked out, with both of us going 3-1 and cashing, I am disappointed to not be able to report anything useful.
One of the cards that I struggled most over was Rhonas, but included one to see how it played. I am concerned about 2 Rhonas with only two of his best enabler (Bristling Hydra). I would -1 Rhonas, +1 Bristling Hydra. Otherwise, I really like your version. FWIW, I would move a Hostage Taker to the side to get the fourth Bristling Hydra in (cutting one of the 3s) and replace a Harvester with a Shapers' Sanctuary before I played it myself.
So, you might find this amusing. At SCG Dallas, I had one opponent who used Battle at the Bridge to kill Rhonas. It's unusual seeing him in the GY (as opposed to exile), but there he lay. A turn or two later, I topdeck the 2nd Rhonas and play it. My opponent's reaction? "Can I see your GY?" He was thinking I somehow flipped the Rhonas to the top of my library! He then commented that it was unusual to see two Rhonas in the deck. I dunno, to me, good card is good, amirite?
Anyway, I agree that Bristling Hydra is the only direct enabler (Scarab God aside), as in, doesn't need any help when it hits the board to turn him on. But every other creature in the deck (excluding Ballista for X=1) is but a single activation away from him being live. There are plenty of games where I sit back with a handful of board presence and use my mana to turn on Rhonas. Swinging in for 9 on T4 is nothing to sneeze at, so my opponent has to deal with the board at hand, allowing me to be able to hold up cards rather than playing into their strategy (e.g. Settle the Wreckage, Fumigate, etc). Granted, this is mana inefficient if I could swing in with Rhonas and further develop my board. I get that. But against control, it's actually really strong. He's also really good against other strategies that develop a strong board presence (Temur, Ramunap, tokens), allowing me to stall their attacks (5/5 Deathtouch is fantastic) as well as push through damage with the trample effect.
I'm curious your experience that made you struggle with him. Other than the games where Control was already winning and I couldn't keep a creature on board, he has been a powerhouse for me.
Also, why Shapers' Sanctuary? My experience with it was not great at SCG Dallas. I've even cut Lifecrafter's Bestiary from my side, which is also a great card, but I just find I need better proactive/reactive cards in the Control match-up as opposed to the slow, grindy card.
Honestly, the biggest thing I'm concerned about with the deck is cutting Gearhulk. There were games where I was losing that I flat out just won because of that card. Being able to activate Harvester, cast Gearhulk, and dump all the counters on it closes out a game fast and makes a huge difference in the race against aggro. It's why I've opted for so many life gain cards in the SB, since I cut Harvester from the main (which might also be a mistake). But to make room for Siphoners, Hostage Takers, and Defenses, something had to give.
At the last minute, my son decided that he wanted Ballistae in his version of Mardu Vehicles. I audibled into Sultai Midrange. While it worked out, with both of us going 3-1 and cashing, I am disappointed to not be able to report anything useful.
One of the cards that I struggled most over was Rhonas, but included one to see how it played. I am concerned about 2 Rhonas with only two of his best enabler (Bristling Hydra). I would -1 Rhonas, +1 Bristling Hydra. Otherwise, I really like your version. FWIW, I would move a Hostage Taker to the side to get the fourth Bristling Hydra in (cutting one of the 3s) and replace a Harvester with a Shapers' Sanctuary before I played it myself.
So, you might find this amusing. At SCG Dallas, I had one opponent who used Battle at the Bridge to kill Rhonas. It's unusual seeing him in the GY (as opposed to exile), but there he lay. A turn or two later, I topdeck the 2nd Rhonas and play it. My opponent's reaction? "Can I see your GY?" He was thinking I somehow flipped the Rhonas to the top of my library! He then commented that it was unusual to see two Rhonas in the deck. I dunno, to me, good card is good, amirite?
Anyway, I agree that Bristling Hydra is the only direct enabler (Scarab God aside), as in, doesn't need any help when it hits the board to turn him on. But every other creature in the deck (excluding Ballista for X=1) is but a single activation away from him being live. There are plenty of games where I sit back with a handful of board presence and use my mana to turn on Rhonas. Swinging in for 9 on T4 is nothing to sneeze at, so my opponent has to deal with the board at hand, allowing me to be able to hold up cards rather than playing into their strategy (e.g. Settle the Wreckage, Fumigate, etc). Granted, this is mana inefficient if I could swing in with Rhonas and further develop my board. I get that. But against control, it's actually really strong. He's also really good against other strategies that develop a strong board presence (Temur, Ramunap, tokens), allowing me to stall their attacks (5/5 Deathtouch is fantastic) as well as push through damage with the trample effect.
I'm curious your experience that made you struggle with him. Other than the games where Control was already winning and I couldn't keep a creature on board, he has been a powerhouse for me.
Also, why Shapers' Sanctuary? My experience with it was not great at SCG Dallas. I've even cut Lifecrafter's Bestiary from my side, which is also a great card, but I just find I need better proactive/reactive cards in the Control match-up as opposed to the slow, grindy card.
Honestly, the biggest thing I'm concerned about with the deck is cutting Gearhulk. There were games where I was losing that I flat out just won because of that card. Being able to activate Harvester, cast Gearhulk, and dump all the counters on it closes out a game fast and makes a huge difference in the race against aggro. It's why I've opted for so many life gain cards in the SB, since I cut Harvester from the main (which might also be a mistake). But to make room for Siphoners, Hostage Takers, and Defenses, something had to give.
Too many good cards is a great problem, isn't it. My issue with Rhonas has been having him out there alone or with a <4 power guy. Activating Rhonas only to get the target removed is a bummer. You will notice my list has 4 Hydra, Gearhulk and Skysovereign to help a single Rhonas. I like that Refiner can crew to enable Rhonas or a Rishkar or Gearhulk counter on Refiner also works.
There's a lot of great discussion here on pg 5. I'm going to make some comments on individual cards under discussion.
- Hostage Taker doesn't interest me. I tested a bit with it in early iterations of this deck, but for whatever reason, I couldn't manage to get the dream team of Taker + Blossoming Defense assembled in a decisive or significant way. It's slow against red, anemic against control, and Temur has ways to mitigate its impact, especially the disciplined builds that don't splash The Scarab God (which is by far the best target); Glorybringer trumps Taker on-curve if you don't also have Defense backup, Bristling Hydra trumps Taker on-curve regardless of whether you have Defense or not, and the tempo you lose from being down two cards trying to pick a spot for Taker + Defense is a big deal against Temur, which is very capable of punishing slow draws.
- Prowling Serpopard might be worth trying out. I'm not personally interested, because I don't really like having dedicated anti-control cards. I don't think Serpopard changes the game so drastically as to merit including it over, say, Champion of Wits, which is a very good anti-control card that also comes in postboard against a variety of other decks (essentially anything but mono-red).
- Drowned Catacomb is substantially better than Fetid Pools. It's been my experience both during HOU Standard and now that cycling Pools comes up very rarely, while Catacombs seems to come in untapped reliably on turn 4-5, and the extra mana from that is rather important. This deck also has use for land drops well beyond the 5th or even 6th one due to Walking Ballista and Scarab God.
- Rhonas the Indomitable is probably a fine 1-of if you shift toward all Bristling Hydras at the 4 spot and cut Hostage Taker completely. I have never been big on Rhonas because I constantly seem to get served the floor with him instead of the ceiling (I don't think I've ever assembled Rhonas and Bristling Hydra in a game I wasn't already destroying). But there's no denying the card is very good.
- Aethersphere Harvester and Verdurous Gearhulk: I like the 1-of Gearhulk that I have here. I'm not a very big fan of Harvester without 2x or more Gearhulks, but once you have that many, I love Harvester. Harvester "doesn't need" Gearhulk but it doesn't really decide games like it used to do without Gearhulk. I felt like I lost to red more because I either stumbled out of the gates early (variance essentially) or I had trouble dealing with Hazoratti, Chandra, and Glorybringer postboard, since respecting their 1-drop rush and respecting that trio of top-end cards stretches you thin.
- Vraska's Contempt is an awesome card. I wish it sniped enchantments and artifacts too, but that might be too good. It's excellent as-is I think. I don't mind the 4th mana very much because the premier threats for which you really want Contempt cost a decent chunk of change themselves... usually these 4-mana spells are too clunky to be played significantly, but the threats are not very redundant in Standard decks, so mana efficiency takes a backseat to matching up cleanly with the low number of very high-impact threats that drive these decks.
All in all, I think this build is in the same space as Temur, but has a higher ceiling (and perhaps lower floor) due to Constrictor synergies. The higher ceiling in this case is probably worth it.
There's a lot of great discussion here on pg 5. I'm going to make some comments on individual cards under discussion.
- Hostage Taker doesn't interest me. I tested a bit with it in early iterations of this deck, but for whatever reason, I couldn't manage to get the dream team of Taker + Blossoming Defense assembled in a decisive or significant way. It's slow against red, anemic against control, and Temur has ways to mitigate its impact, especially the disciplined builds that don't splash The Scarab God (which is by far the best target); Glorybringer trumps Taker on-curve if you don't also have Defense backup, Bristling Hydra trumps Taker on-curve regardless of whether you have Defense or not, and the tempo you lose from being down two cards trying to pick a spot for Taker + Defense is a big deal against Temur, which is very capable of punishing slow draws.
- Prowling Serpopard might be worth trying out. I'm not personally interested, because I don't really like having dedicated anti-control cards. I don't think Serpopard changes the game so drastically as to merit including it over, say, Champion of Wits, which is a very good anti-control card that also comes in postboard against a variety of other decks (essentially anything but mono-red).
- Drowned Catacomb is substantially better than Fetid Pools. It's been my experience both during HOU Standard and now that cycling Pools comes up very rarely, while Catacombs seems to come in untapped reliably on turn 4-5, and the extra mana from that is rather important. This deck also has use for land drops well beyond the 5th or even 6th one due to Walking Ballista and Scarab God.
- Rhonas the Indomitable is probably a fine 1-of if you shift toward all Bristling Hydras at the 4 spot and cut Hostage Taker completely. I have never been big on Rhonas because I constantly seem to get served the floor with him instead of the ceiling (I don't think I've ever assembled Rhonas and Bristling Hydra in a game I wasn't already destroying). But there's no denying the card is very good.
- Aethersphere Harvester and Verdurous Gearhulk: I like the 1-of Gearhulk that I have here. I'm not a very big fan of Harvester without 2x or more Gearhulks, but once you have that many, I love Harvester. Harvester "doesn't need" Gearhulk but it doesn't really decide games like it used to do without Gearhulk. I felt like I lost to red more because I either stumbled out of the gates early (variance essentially) or I had trouble dealing with Hazoratti, Chandra, and Glorybringer postboard, since respecting their 1-drop rush and respecting that trio of top-end cards stretches you thin.
- Vraska's Contempt is an awesome card. I wish it sniped enchantments and artifacts too, but that might be too good. It's excellent as-is I think. I don't mind the 4th mana very much because the premier threats for which you really want Contempt cost a decent chunk of change themselves... usually these 4-mana spells are too clunky to be played significantly, but the threats are not very redundant in Standard decks, so mana efficiency takes a backseat to matching up cleanly with the low number of very high-impact threats that drive these decks.
All in all, I think this build is in the same space as Temur, but has a higher ceiling (and perhaps lower floor) due to Constrictor synergies. The higher ceiling in this case is probably worth it.
I like the deck and the card feedback. What's your plan against Ramunap Red? Without 4 Fatal Push I would imagine the match up nearly unwinnable. Thoughts on RR in general anyone? I saw 2 at my FNM this week and I'm a little concerned. Perhaps having only 2 Walking Ballista to my name is my problem though.
Drowned Catacomb makes a lot more sense over Fetid Pools to me as well scasseden. The deck has tons of card draw already between glint sleeve and Rogue Refiner. We have 8 lands that come into play tapped late. The fact that Drowned Catacomb can be a turn 4 or 5 land that comes into play untapped is huge.
Glint-sleeve siphoner has been a house. Between it and Rogue Refiner, I realized we can get away with criminally few lands for our mana curve. I was playing 23 lands tonight which was too many. 21 looks like so few for a 3 color deck with 4 and 5 drops. How do you people manage it? Just accept a higher ratio of mulligans?
Played a mirror match tonight except they had Hostage Taker, which definitely won them the match. I don't have the money for them. Also, Bristling Hydra is still an all star and winning matches which fills the slot. Come to think of it, Hostage taker is probably another card I could use to help beat Ramunap Red.
I goofed and I'm not sure exactly where the mistake is in the decklist. I have 4 Fatal Pushes MD. I want to say I had 1 Blossoming Defense but I'm not sure what the errant card is. You can probably cut the 4th Opt, the 1st Defense or one of the other one-ofs.
i know i throw cards out there but i was going through building an EDh deck and i came across deadlock trap. i know it was used before but with the amount of energy we are getting, especially against temur and RR, it might be good. a 3 drop, comes down early. gives you energy. lets you tap down chandra, gideon, glorybringer, hazoret. it might be worth a 1 or 2 of in the side, which i know is already tight for cards.
Current list. I decided to get more aggressive, because my experience testing Temur Energy led me to want an early game that scales better into the lategame. Winding Constrictor is the ticket.
I wanted to get more aggressive and not have to hold up mana to develop the board. That meant Essence Scatter had to go and that I wanted to go down on removal generally. Vraska's Contempt is great all-purpose removal, which you want for the 4-5 mana bombs that everyone likes to play, and a couple of Fatal Push give you the ability to tag something on turn 1 or turn 3 and either break serve or push your advantage further, but I don't think I really want a lot of removal. I want to use my big Longtusk Cubs to invalidate the smaller stuff, Verdurous Gearhulk to make my attacks frightening and dangerous, and Aethersphere Harvester to close out in the air.
I cut Walking Ballista because I didn't want to play it as badly as I wanted to play the other cards. It's only really good against Ramunap Red anyway. I decided it wasn't worth sideboarding because you don't lose to the smallball stuff against red postboard, in fact they usually cut 1-toughness guys to mitigate their weakness to Ballista. Why not just not have Ballista and focus on Hazoret, Chandra, and Glorybringer? I am trying out a Cartouche of Ambition despite that argument, though, because extra lifegain is great.
I was finally able to play my smash-mouth version yesterday at a small Showdown. Though only two matches, I did play a good player on Grixis Control and a very good player on a state of the art version of Ramunap Red. Easy 2-0. I have a possible PPTQ in a week, so I would like help whipping this into shape.
The main deck is close to what I want: early pressure, midgame, card advantage and some haymakers. The sideboard is a mess. With the small number of Negate and Duress, I worry that I've punted the control and combo matchups.
Matchups and sideboarding:
Ramunap Red, Rx Aggro; close to even: +1 Fatal Push, +1 Shapers' Sanctuary, +2 Deathgorge Scavenger, -4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
Temur-based Midrange: +2 Blossoming Defense, +2 Hostage Taker, +1 The Scarab God
Gifts:+1 Vraska
Tokens:+1 Vraska
I will add more here, but suggestions are welcome.
What am I least sure of: Walking Ballista #4, Rhonas
What I want to find space for: Aethersphere Harvester, more Negate, more Duress, more Lifecrafter's Bestiary, Arguel's Blood Fast, Vizier of Many Faces, Confiscation Coup
Questions, issues:
I hate the gap between Fatal Push and Vraska's Contempt. I miss Harnessed Lightning. I am reluctant to splash Red, particularly when splashing white would give me answers to The Scarab God. Pounce, Walk, Stomp, all seem lacking. Walk is the best, I suppose.
I haven't played Temur much. I think I get more percentage out of running an unexpected deck rather than try to beat a bunch of grinders who have played the hell out of the mirror. But how do I tune this to beat the up-to-date versions? They have Chandra and Glorybringer, but I have Siphoner and they have Servant, so that is about even. Our Cubs and Hydras being better with Constructor seems like an advantage. I am hoping that Hostage Taker from the side can make up for Confiscation Coup and that our plethora of two drops can invalidate their counterspells.
I like all my matchups except Combo. That can't be right. Where do we really stand?
So how good IS vraska? I've been sitting here going back and forth on grabbing her for some possible brews and she seems very heavy on the mana cost for the kind of impact she has on the board when she comes in. With Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Sorin they basically came in swinging right away, while Vraska, Relic Seeker feels like she durdles unless someone is using the -3 right away to clear something.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Late report to the party, but hey... went a disappointing 1-2 at yesterday's Saturday Showdown. Beat Temur energy (2-0), losses to Temur energy (1-2) and 4C energy (0-2).
My win was just overpowering in both games, tho he made it closer after sideboarding. The loss to Temur was painful, as both games I dropped I had the win on board next turn - first died to topdecked Chandra, Torch of Defiance while at 1 life, second died to topdecked Glorybringer #2 while at 8 (and my removal was the next card down...). The loss to 4C was a pair of blowout games. I drew poorly and he had all kinds of gas (including Torrential Gearhulk - did I miss the memo on that??).
Anyway, some retooling is in order to start the week. First off here is my new starting point:
From the build I played on Saturday to this one, I've removed 2 maindeck Rishkar, Peema Renegade in favour of bringing Contempts from the board to main. Also moved the 3 Ballistas to the board, bringing in 1 Negate from the board and adding the pair of Obstructionists for testing. (The notable lack of The Scarab God is due to card availability - I borrow from my brother-in-law's collection, and right now his son is using TSGs.)
I did some limited testing this afternoon against Grixis spells and Esper tokens (sadly no Temur builds in my extended family). Only played maindecked games due to time and all our boards being in flux. The Grixis matchup felt very dependent on the play-or-draw state. When I played first I usually won, when I played second I usually didn't. Obviously sideboarding would change things considerably, but looking at it from the perspective of playing a bunch of game 1's in a row, I'd say I was prolly 55-45 (even on the draw it's easy to punish a slow start). Against Esper it doesn't look as good, as that deck can gum up the ground really fast. Again sideboards change it, but game 1 I'd say I'm prolly only 40-60 if I can stick a curve-out starting hand.
I'm not going to discuss the usual card choices, but I do want to put in a good word for Nimble Obstructionist. At worst he's an end-step flyer to help keep pressure on, and his cycling ability has its uses (I stifled a Scarab God death trigger against Esper - that felt pretty good). I would definitely suggest trying it out.
More brewing and changes to come during the week I'm sure, but where I'm starting from feels solid. I'd love to find room for instant-speed +1/+1 counters but I can't see where those spots come from at this point. Any advice on that (or the list in general) is welcomed!
Thanks for the report! You've made some interesting and creative changes to the deck.
Confiscation Coup (which you are using) and Vizier of Many Faces seem like ways to make up for lack of The Scarab God.
My greed for understanding of the Temur matchup has me wanting you to just proxy any Temur list for your own testing, even if none of your testing group plan to play it in anger.
With less than 4 Hydras and no Ballistae in the main, i wonder about your G1 matchup against Ramunap Red. But maybe there isn't much of it in your meta.
Vraska is just good. Not synergistically good, but just good. I would try one in the sideboard for matches that you think will go that long, at least. She is so versatile that I don't think you will regret her inclusion very often.
The "meta" was pretty random: the 3 energy decks I faced, the aforementioned Grixis and Esper decks, and a 4C Approach/Ramp list. I'm told that last week there might have been one energy deck... I will never say that I face anything close to established
I'm really liking the Coup - it's always value, way less of a feels-bad play than a naked Hostage Taker can be (which is why they are only in the board). And yeah, the lack of RR made it easy for me to decide to board the Ballista package.
Going forward I'll put the bug in the appropriate ear to put together a stock Temur list to test against. As I said in my results, I either won handily or lost to some untimely topdecks, so in theory I think I'm in a good position. More testing will tell for sure of course.
I haven't considered Vraska because 6-drop. I'll put her on my radar tho.
The other card I've seen people discussing is Shaper's Sanctuary (vs Blossoming Defense). Right now I am firmly in the Defense camp. It blows out removal and can really contribute to bad decision-making on the other side - just one use makes every open green source suspicious. But I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has used Sanctuary.
Oh yeah, what are your thoughts on Cartouche of Ambition as a 1-of in the board? I've seen that posted in a few different places. Seems good on a Hydra?
With all the don't block effects in RR, I really like Shapers' Sanctuary in that matchup. I think it's OK vs UB or UR control. I don't like it against UW Control. Against Temur? I dunno. I have a fair amount of RR and UBx control in my meta, so I like one and am considering another. For your meta, it doesn't seem very useful.
Yeah, Cartouche of Ambition seems good. Particularly on a Hydra against Ramunap Red. So, more Hydras are better along with. It's kind of embarrassing against Gonti, Gifted Aetherborn, Settle, Bontu's Last Word and Fumigate though, so I dunno. It seems like Shapers'Sanctuary: best against Ramunap Red.
With all the don't block effects in RR, I really like Shapers' Sanctuary in that matchup. I think it's OK vs UB or UR control. I don't like it against UW Control. Against Temur? I dunno. I have a fair amount of RR and UBx control in my meta, so I like one and am considering another. For your meta, it doesn't seem very useful.
Yeah, Cartouche of Ambition seems good. Particularly on a Hydra against Ramunap Red. So, more Hydras are better along with. It's kind of embarrassing against Gonti, Gifted Aetherborn, Settle, Bontu's Last Word and Fumigate though, so I dunno. It seems like Shapers'Sanctuary: best against Ramunap Red.
I don't like Shapers' Sanctuary against Ramunap Red unless it comes down on T1. If you can't play it on T1, it puts you off your mana curve to play it or forces you to not hold up for Fatal Push (for example, T3 Cub and Sanctuary as opposed to Cub and hold up Push or Defense). If RR plays their aggressive game, where the "don't block" effects are typically used, the extra cards rarely matter. I dropped it early in a match-up against BR aggro, and I still died on T5 despite drawing something like 4 extra cards. If you can survive the early push, the extra cards then seem winmore, unless you have literally drawn into the cards you needed to be able to survive. I mean, I understand the extra value it provides. I'm just not sure it's worth more than another early blocker, a removal spell, or a land drop.
I’m concerned about our matchup with vehicles decks. I played against one in a PPTQ last weekend and it was the only match in which I didn’t take a game.
In the first he went Bomat, Heart of Kiran, motorist, motorist and easily outraced me, finishing off with glorybringer. In the second I mulled to five unable to find adequate mana.
This raises two questions for me
1 Do we need more answers for evasive creatures?
2. Is 21 land and 4 x attune too greedy?
I’m playing 4 x fatal push and 2 x contempt in the main board and recognise that on the ground our critters tend to outweigh the opposition, so we can overwhelm them in combat. However, with so few removal spells I feel vulnerable to fliers.
On the upside, I’ve been very impressed with drowned catacombs. Probably going to add a third. Anyone else tempted to go to 22 land?
Yeah, evaluating Shapers' Sanctuary is complex and I could easily be wrong about it. The long term card advantage and cheap cost currently elevate it over Narnam Renegade, Walk and Pounce for me, but it's benefit is delayed and it's a miserable topdeck.
Vehicles is real. My son has gone 7-1 with it over the last two outings. Their good draw should beat anybody's bad draw. Dissenter's Deliverance and Manglehorn seem like possibilities also.
I know I don't want less than 21 land because of Mulligans. 22 seems reasonable. We can simulate 21.5 with 22 land in a 61 card deck, fwiw. I don't think I have flooded lately and screw is painful.
No, which is why I run more than 4 removal spells. At SCG Dallas, I ran 3 Fatal Push, 2 Never // Return, and 2 Vraska's Contempt main with 1 Vraska's Contempt and 3 Doomfall in the side. However, Hostage Taker acts as removal if you can make it stick, which is why the Jessup brothers opted for only 4 Fatal Push main. Myself, I'm going down on the Nevers and adding the 4th Push back in, leaving me 6 maindeck removal spells and probably going with two Hostage Takers main as well.
I don't know how Hostage Taker lines up against Temur, but there was a lot of Temur Black at SCG Dallas. I beat it every time I played it and the Jessup brothers obviously did quite well against them too. I don't have the reps that the pros do, and Temur is obviously powerful and flexible, but I think Sultai Constrictor has a better than 50% match-up against it, with or without Hostage Taker. Their deck against our deck depends so heavily on Glorybringer and Chandra, Torch of Defiance, it's not even funny. Their typical snowball threats (Longtusk Cub and Bristling Hydra) don't get as big as ours do. Add in the facts that we have access to better removal, have an overall low curve, and are now maindecking combat tricks/protection (i.e. Blossoming Defense) and I think the match-up slants even more in our favor.
I agree with your assessment that #2 is the approach we should take. I like 2 main with some number of B. Defense and a reasonable sideboard plan against Control and maybe the mirror & token-style decks.
In the meantime, I am leaning towards doings some serious mouth-smashing next time out:
4 Walking Ballista
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Rogue Refiner
1 Rhonas the Indominable
1 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4 Bristling Hydra
1 The Scarab God
1 Verdurous Gearhulk
Artifacts
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
4 Attune with Aether
Instants
1 Blossoming Defense
4 Fatal Push
1 Vraska's Contempt
Lands
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Fetid Pools
3 Forest
1 Foul Orchard
1 Island
2 Swamp
1 Blossoming Defense
2 Duress
1 Shapers' Sanctuary
1 Spell Pierce
1 Negate
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
2 Hostage Taker
1 Vraska's Contempt
1 The Scarab God
1 Carnage Tyrant
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
And from US Nationals:
2 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
2 The Scarab God
3 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
3 Hostage Taker
2 Bristling Hydra
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Rogue Refiner
4 Walking Ballista
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Attune with Aether
3 Blossoming Defense
4 Fatal Push
Land
1 Island
2 Swamp
4 Forest
2 Drowned Catacomb
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Botanical Sanctum
3 Deathgorge Scavenger
1 Spell Pierce
3 Negate
2 Vraska's Contempt
1 Confiscation Coup
3 Duress
2 Vraska, Relic Seeker
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Is Prowling Serpopard worth including in the 75 with the uptick of UB Control? They run very little maindeck removal, relying heavily on the counters, and Serpopard wrecks that strategy. It's less effective against the other control decks, but if UB Control is considered the premiere control deck, it might be worthy of inclusion. Or is it too cornercase and we stick with Duress and Negate instead?
Fetid Pools vs. Drowned Catacomb... and go!
Being someone who is running "The Pirate God" deck as it's been getting named, Prowling Serpopard is probably an okay sideboard. A lot of UB builds are being pushed into using Essence Scatter because Walk the Plank is pretty clunky at sorcery speed. It also stops Lookout's Dispersal, so that's pretty big.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Walking Ballista
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Rogue Refiner
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
2 Bristling Hydra
2 Hostage Taker
1 The Scarab God
Non-Creature Spells (13)
4 Fatal Push
4 Attune with Aether
2 Vraska's Contempt
3 Blossoming Defense
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Aether Hub
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Island
2 Fetid Pools
3 Deathgorge Scavenger
1 Vraska's Contempt
3 Negate
3 Duress
2 Vraska, Relic Seeker
3 Aethersphere Harvester
Thoughts?
At the last minute, my son decided that he wanted Ballistae in his version of Mardu Vehicles. I audibled into Sultai Midrange. While it worked out, with both of us going 3-1 and cashing, I am disappointed to not be able to report anything useful.
One of the cards that I struggled most over was Rhonas, but included one to see how it played. I am concerned about 2 Rhonas with only two of his best enabler (Bristling Hydra). I would -1 Rhonas, +1 Bristling Hydra. Otherwise, I really like your version. FWIW, I would move a Hostage Taker to the side to get the fourth Bristling Hydra in (cutting one of the 3s) and replace a Harvester with a Shapers' Sanctuary before I played it myself.
I want to play that card so much! And Shapers of Nature! But aren't we already winning when they are good? The deck needs help in those games where we struggle to get to that point. When I'm playing Herald out onto an empty board, I think I would feel bad. Win more is the classic phrase, IMO.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
So, you might find this amusing. At SCG Dallas, I had one opponent who used Battle at the Bridge to kill Rhonas. It's unusual seeing him in the GY (as opposed to exile), but there he lay. A turn or two later, I topdeck the 2nd Rhonas and play it. My opponent's reaction? "Can I see your GY?" He was thinking I somehow flipped the Rhonas to the top of my library! He then commented that it was unusual to see two Rhonas in the deck. I dunno, to me, good card is good, amirite?
Anyway, I agree that Bristling Hydra is the only direct enabler (Scarab God aside), as in, doesn't need any help when it hits the board to turn him on. But every other creature in the deck (excluding Ballista for X=1) is but a single activation away from him being live. There are plenty of games where I sit back with a handful of board presence and use my mana to turn on Rhonas. Swinging in for 9 on T4 is nothing to sneeze at, so my opponent has to deal with the board at hand, allowing me to be able to hold up cards rather than playing into their strategy (e.g. Settle the Wreckage, Fumigate, etc). Granted, this is mana inefficient if I could swing in with Rhonas and further develop my board. I get that. But against control, it's actually really strong. He's also really good against other strategies that develop a strong board presence (Temur, Ramunap, tokens), allowing me to stall their attacks (5/5 Deathtouch is fantastic) as well as push through damage with the trample effect.
I'm curious your experience that made you struggle with him. Other than the games where Control was already winning and I couldn't keep a creature on board, he has been a powerhouse for me.
Also, why Shapers' Sanctuary? My experience with it was not great at SCG Dallas. I've even cut Lifecrafter's Bestiary from my side, which is also a great card, but I just find I need better proactive/reactive cards in the Control match-up as opposed to the slow, grindy card.
Honestly, the biggest thing I'm concerned about with the deck is cutting Gearhulk. There were games where I was losing that I flat out just won because of that card. Being able to activate Harvester, cast Gearhulk, and dump all the counters on it closes out a game fast and makes a huge difference in the race against aggro. It's why I've opted for so many life gain cards in the SB, since I cut Harvester from the main (which might also be a mistake). But to make room for Siphoners, Hostage Takers, and Defenses, something had to give.
Too many good cards is a great problem, isn't it. My issue with Rhonas has been having him out there alone or with a <4 power guy. Activating Rhonas only to get the target removed is a bummer. You will notice my list has 4 Hydra, Gearhulk and Skysovereign to help a single Rhonas. I like that Refiner can crew to enable Rhonas or a Rishkar or Gearhulk counter on Refiner also works.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Longtusk Cub
3 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Rogue Refiner
3 Bristling Hydra
1 The Scarab God
1 Verdurous Gearhulk
3 Walking Ballista
Spells (16)
4 Attune with Aether
4 Blossoming Defense
4 Opt
2 Vraska's Contempt
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Forest
3 Island
2 Swamp
4 Duress
1 Spell Pierce
2 Negate
1 Appetite for the Unnatural
2 Champion of Wits
3 Deathgorge Scavenger
1 Bristling Hydra
1 Vraska's Contempt
There's a lot of great discussion here on pg 5. I'm going to make some comments on individual cards under discussion.
- Hostage Taker doesn't interest me. I tested a bit with it in early iterations of this deck, but for whatever reason, I couldn't manage to get the dream team of Taker + Blossoming Defense assembled in a decisive or significant way. It's slow against red, anemic against control, and Temur has ways to mitigate its impact, especially the disciplined builds that don't splash The Scarab God (which is by far the best target); Glorybringer trumps Taker on-curve if you don't also have Defense backup, Bristling Hydra trumps Taker on-curve regardless of whether you have Defense or not, and the tempo you lose from being down two cards trying to pick a spot for Taker + Defense is a big deal against Temur, which is very capable of punishing slow draws.
- Prowling Serpopard might be worth trying out. I'm not personally interested, because I don't really like having dedicated anti-control cards. I don't think Serpopard changes the game so drastically as to merit including it over, say, Champion of Wits, which is a very good anti-control card that also comes in postboard against a variety of other decks (essentially anything but mono-red).
- Drowned Catacomb is substantially better than Fetid Pools. It's been my experience both during HOU Standard and now that cycling Pools comes up very rarely, while Catacombs seems to come in untapped reliably on turn 4-5, and the extra mana from that is rather important. This deck also has use for land drops well beyond the 5th or even 6th one due to Walking Ballista and Scarab God.
- Rhonas the Indomitable is probably a fine 1-of if you shift toward all Bristling Hydras at the 4 spot and cut Hostage Taker completely. I have never been big on Rhonas because I constantly seem to get served the floor with him instead of the ceiling (I don't think I've ever assembled Rhonas and Bristling Hydra in a game I wasn't already destroying). But there's no denying the card is very good.
- Aethersphere Harvester and Verdurous Gearhulk: I like the 1-of Gearhulk that I have here. I'm not a very big fan of Harvester without 2x or more Gearhulks, but once you have that many, I love Harvester. Harvester "doesn't need" Gearhulk but it doesn't really decide games like it used to do without Gearhulk. I felt like I lost to red more because I either stumbled out of the gates early (variance essentially) or I had trouble dealing with Hazoratti, Chandra, and Glorybringer postboard, since respecting their 1-drop rush and respecting that trio of top-end cards stretches you thin.
- Vraska's Contempt is an awesome card. I wish it sniped enchantments and artifacts too, but that might be too good. It's excellent as-is I think. I don't mind the 4th mana very much because the premier threats for which you really want Contempt cost a decent chunk of change themselves... usually these 4-mana spells are too clunky to be played significantly, but the threats are not very redundant in Standard decks, so mana efficiency takes a backseat to matching up cleanly with the low number of very high-impact threats that drive these decks.
All in all, I think this build is in the same space as Temur, but has a higher ceiling (and perhaps lower floor) due to Constrictor synergies. The higher ceiling in this case is probably worth it.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
I like the deck and the card feedback. What's your plan against Ramunap Red? Without 4 Fatal Push I would imagine the match up nearly unwinnable. Thoughts on RR in general anyone? I saw 2 at my FNM this week and I'm a little concerned. Perhaps having only 2 Walking Ballista to my name is my problem though.
Drowned Catacomb makes a lot more sense over Fetid Pools to me as well scasseden. The deck has tons of card draw already between glint sleeve and Rogue Refiner. We have 8 lands that come into play tapped late. The fact that Drowned Catacomb can be a turn 4 or 5 land that comes into play untapped is huge.
Glint-sleeve siphoner has been a house. Between it and Rogue Refiner, I realized we can get away with criminally few lands for our mana curve. I was playing 23 lands tonight which was too many. 21 looks like so few for a 3 color deck with 4 and 5 drops. How do you people manage it? Just accept a higher ratio of mulligans?
Played a mirror match tonight except they had Hostage Taker, which definitely won them the match. I don't have the money for them. Also, Bristling Hydra is still an all star and winning matches which fills the slot. Come to think of it, Hostage taker is probably another card I could use to help beat Ramunap Red.
List I'm going to start testing:
4x Winding Constrictor
4x Glint-sleeve Siphoner
4x Longtusk Cub
2x Walking Ballista
4x Rogue Refiner
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
1x Rhonas, the indomitable
4x Bristling Hydra
1x Verdurous gearhulk
2x The Scarab God
3x Attune with Aether
4x Fatal Push
2x Essence Scatter
1x Vraska's Contempt
land 22
4x Aether Hub
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Botanical Sanctum
1x foul orchard
3x Drowned Catacomb
3x forest
2x swamp
1x Island
1x Vraska's contempt
1x Doomfall
1x Walking Ballista
1x Deathgorge Scavenger
2x Appetite for the unnatural
1x Walk the Plank
2x Negate
3x Duress
2x Aethersphere Harvester
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Longtusk Cub
3 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Rogue Refiner
2 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
4 Bristling Hydra
3 Verdurous Gearhulk
1 The Scarab God
Spells (12)
4 Attune with Aether
2 Blossoming Defense
2 Fatal Push
2 Aethersphere Harvester
2 Vraska's Contempt
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
3 Botanical Sanctum
2 Drowned Catacomb
3 Forest
2 Island
4 Swamp
3 Duress
3 Spell Pierce
1 Cartouche of Ambition
2 Champion of Wits
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Vraska's Contempt
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
1 Nissa, Vital Force
I wanted to get more aggressive and not have to hold up mana to develop the board. That meant Essence Scatter had to go and that I wanted to go down on removal generally. Vraska's Contempt is great all-purpose removal, which you want for the 4-5 mana bombs that everyone likes to play, and a couple of Fatal Push give you the ability to tag something on turn 1 or turn 3 and either break serve or push your advantage further, but I don't think I really want a lot of removal. I want to use my big Longtusk Cubs to invalidate the smaller stuff, Verdurous Gearhulk to make my attacks frightening and dangerous, and Aethersphere Harvester to close out in the air.
I cut Walking Ballista because I didn't want to play it as badly as I wanted to play the other cards. It's only really good against Ramunap Red anyway. I decided it wasn't worth sideboarding because you don't lose to the smallball stuff against red postboard, in fact they usually cut 1-toughness guys to mitigate their weakness to Ballista. Why not just not have Ballista and focus on Hazoret, Chandra, and Glorybringer? I am trying out a Cartouche of Ambition despite that argument, though, because extra lifegain is great.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
4 Walking Ballista
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Rogue Refiner
1 Rhonas the Indominable
1 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4 Bristling Hydra
1 The Scarab God
1 Verdurous Gearhulk
Artifacts
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
4 Attune with Aether
Instants
1 Blossoming Defense
3 Fatal Push
2 Vraska's Contempt
Lands
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Drowned Catacomb
3 Forest
1 Foul Orchard
1 Island
2 Swamp
2 Blossoming Defense
1 Duress
1 Fatal Push
1 Shapers' Sanctuary
1 Spell Pierce
1 Negate
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
2 Hostage Taker
1 The Scarab God
1 Carnage Tyrant
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
The main deck is close to what I want: early pressure, midgame, card advantage and some haymakers. The sideboard is a mess. With the small number of Negate and Duress, I worry that I've punted the control and combo matchups.
Matchups and sideboarding:
What am I least sure of: Walking Ballista #4, Rhonas
What I want to find space for: Aethersphere Harvester, more Negate, more Duress, more Lifecrafter's Bestiary, Arguel's Blood Fast, Vizier of Many Faces, Confiscation Coup
Questions, issues:
TLDR: Help!
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
My win was just overpowering in both games, tho he made it closer after sideboarding. The loss to Temur was painful, as both games I dropped I had the win on board next turn - first died to topdecked Chandra, Torch of Defiance while at 1 life, second died to topdecked Glorybringer #2 while at 8 (and my removal was the next card down...). The loss to 4C was a pair of blowout games. I drew poorly and he had all kinds of gas (including Torrential Gearhulk - did I miss the memo on that??).
Anyway, some retooling is in order to start the week. First off here is my new starting point:
3 Blooming Marsh
4 Botanical Sanctum
1 Fetid Pools
4 Forest
1 Island
4 Swamp
3 Blossoming Defense
4 Fatal Push
1 Negate
2 Vraska's Contempt
1 Confiscation Coup
3 Bristling Hydra
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Longtusk Cub
2 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
4 Rogue Refiner
2 Verdurous Gearhulk
4 Winding Constrictor
2 Appetite for the Unnatural
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
2 Duress
3 Hostage Taker
2 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Negate
3 Walking Ballista
From the build I played on Saturday to this one, I've removed 2 maindeck Rishkar, Peema Renegade in favour of bringing Contempts from the board to main. Also moved the 3 Ballistas to the board, bringing in 1 Negate from the board and adding the pair of Obstructionists for testing. (The notable lack of The Scarab God is due to card availability - I borrow from my brother-in-law's collection, and right now his son is using TSGs.)
I did some limited testing this afternoon against Grixis spells and Esper tokens (sadly no Temur builds in my extended family). Only played maindecked games due to time and all our boards being in flux. The Grixis matchup felt very dependent on the play-or-draw state. When I played first I usually won, when I played second I usually didn't. Obviously sideboarding would change things considerably, but looking at it from the perspective of playing a bunch of game 1's in a row, I'd say I was prolly 55-45 (even on the draw it's easy to punish a slow start). Against Esper it doesn't look as good, as that deck can gum up the ground really fast. Again sideboards change it, but game 1 I'd say I'm prolly only 40-60 if I can stick a curve-out starting hand.
I'm not going to discuss the usual card choices, but I do want to put in a good word for Nimble Obstructionist. At worst he's an end-step flyer to help keep pressure on, and his cycling ability has its uses (I stifled a Scarab God death trigger against Esper - that felt pretty good). I would definitely suggest trying it out.
More brewing and changes to come during the week I'm sure, but where I'm starting from feels solid. I'd love to find room for instant-speed +1/+1 counters but I can't see where those spots come from at this point. Any advice on that (or the list in general) is welcomed!
Confiscation Coup (which you are using) and Vizier of Many Faces seem like ways to make up for lack of The Scarab God.
My greed for understanding of the Temur matchup has me wanting you to just proxy any Temur list for your own testing, even if none of your testing group plan to play it in anger.
With less than 4 Hydras and no Ballistae in the main, i wonder about your G1 matchup against Ramunap Red. But maybe there isn't much of it in your meta.
Vraska is just good. Not synergistically good, but just good. I would try one in the sideboard for matches that you think will go that long, at least. She is so versatile that I don't think you will regret her inclusion very often.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I'm really liking the Coup - it's always value, way less of a feels-bad play than a naked Hostage Taker can be (which is why they are only in the board). And yeah, the lack of RR made it easy for me to decide to board the Ballista package.
Going forward I'll put the bug in the appropriate ear to put together a stock Temur list to test against. As I said in my results, I either won handily or lost to some untimely topdecks, so in theory I think I'm in a good position. More testing will tell for sure of course.
I haven't considered Vraska because 6-drop. I'll put her on my radar tho.
The other card I've seen people discussing is Shaper's Sanctuary (vs Blossoming Defense). Right now I am firmly in the Defense camp. It blows out removal and can really contribute to bad decision-making on the other side - just one use makes every open green source suspicious. But I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has used Sanctuary.
Oh yeah, what are your thoughts on Cartouche of Ambition as a 1-of in the board? I've seen that posted in a few different places. Seems good on a Hydra?
Yeah, Cartouche of Ambition seems good. Particularly on a Hydra against Ramunap Red. So, more Hydras are better along with. It's kind of embarrassing against Gonti, Gifted Aetherborn, Settle, Bontu's Last Word and Fumigate though, so I dunno. It seems like Shapers'Sanctuary: best against Ramunap Red.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I don't like Shapers' Sanctuary against Ramunap Red unless it comes down on T1. If you can't play it on T1, it puts you off your mana curve to play it or forces you to not hold up for Fatal Push (for example, T3 Cub and Sanctuary as opposed to Cub and hold up Push or Defense). If RR plays their aggressive game, where the "don't block" effects are typically used, the extra cards rarely matter. I dropped it early in a match-up against BR aggro, and I still died on T5 despite drawing something like 4 extra cards. If you can survive the early push, the extra cards then seem winmore, unless you have literally drawn into the cards you needed to be able to survive. I mean, I understand the extra value it provides. I'm just not sure it's worth more than another early blocker, a removal spell, or a land drop.
In the first he went Bomat, Heart of Kiran, motorist, motorist and easily outraced me, finishing off with glorybringer. In the second I mulled to five unable to find adequate mana.
This raises two questions for me
1 Do we need more answers for evasive creatures?
2. Is 21 land and 4 x attune too greedy?
I’m playing 4 x fatal push and 2 x contempt in the main board and recognise that on the ground our critters tend to outweigh the opposition, so we can overwhelm them in combat. However, with so few removal spells I feel vulnerable to fliers.
On the upside, I’ve been very impressed with drowned catacombs. Probably going to add a third. Anyone else tempted to go to 22 land?
Vehicles is real. My son has gone 7-1 with it over the last two outings. Their good draw should beat anybody's bad draw. Dissenter's Deliverance and Manglehorn seem like possibilities also.
I know I don't want less than 21 land because of Mulligans. 22 seems reasonable. We can simulate 21.5 with 22 land in a 61 card deck, fwiw. I don't think I have flooded lately and screw is painful.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG